the inside organisation of the vatican is destroying religion and helping the world be evil . try believing in living by god wil not a man in a dress. luke 21:8 'take heed that ye are not deceived'
The Vatican really is a closed in organisation who believes firmly in the traditions of the Bible.
Please don't blame the actual Catholic Church, they are doing a lot of good in the world, but the inside organisation of the Vatican is telling the Churches of Catholosism to not use condoms etc.
One of the greatest speeches ive ever heard!! Any moral christian who doesnt agree with what Stephen Fry says here is either lieing or just simply unable to face the truth!
I think people on here are missing the point. Fry is not saying that the Catholic Church has never done any good - in fact his point at the end references this. He is saying that the Catholic Church will always say 'yeah but what about the good work it does', just as a criminal will always say 'yeah I know Ive killed people etc, but what about the good Ive done'. It doesnt make up for all the pain that the Catholic church is responsible for.
With the exception of using the fear of damnation, emotional manipulation and flat-out dishonesty to extort money from the ignorant and indoctrinated laity; raping children and concealing their rapists from prosecution is what the clergy does best.
Thank you for posting. I watched the full debate and I have to say it was a sorry lookout for the catholic church that the protagonists happened to be Mssrs Hitchens and Fry. Stephen Fry was majestic in his denunciations and he was in the unassailable position of authority, as he is a gay man. His obvious intelligence, charm and superiority to the claimants for the church only showed more deeply how the man made religious cult of Rome detests the very humanity it proclaims to be trying to save.
Mahhvellous. Stephen Fry, the unchurched half-Jew, does not like the Catholic Church or its products or its usufructs. Great. Stop speaking English. French, German, Spanish, Dutch, and Italian are also out of the running: Catholic languages, all. Forget about anything to do with universities or hospitals, too; they are Catholic institutions. And the Scientific Method, ever hear of that? A Catholic invention, from an English monk...fancy that! Try Papua New Guinea, no Catholics there.
@sallieparker Stephen wasn't saying that everything the Catholic church has done isn't good. He was talking more about what the church has done wrong such as trying to groom modern civilisation into thinking in one way of thinking and using their influence and the loyalty of its mislead followers to get their way in political and social matters.
I think Stephen Fry is one of the most brilliant and pure human beings alive today. If I had to speak FOR the catholic church after that, I would chunder on the podium.
This man hasn't got his facts straight. It wasn't so much of the fact that the bible they were reading was printed in english but it was the heretical inspiration behind it's translation.
@88bostonian It's a rather trivial point of contention that various authorities on the subject have never been able to agree upon. The details are, in this case, irrelevant. The point is that people were tortured and killed for reading a book, a book that for all they knew was the word of god, deemed heretical by the catholic church. Am I missing something?
I like Stephen, but that was a pretty unfair and unhistorical characterization of Thomas More. While he did sentence six people to death for heresy while he was chancellor, he did not torture or "rack" them, and was executed himself under Henry VIII for sticking to his convictions and not supporting the king's divorce of Catherine.
The Director of the House of Theosophy, Bill Lambert, declares that the Roman Catholic Pope is going to be a "proper receptor" to the Antichrist and will be the Supreme Leader of the new global religion of the Antichrist. This part of the New World Order Plan labels the Pope as the Biblical False Prophet.
This is the sort of anti religious argument I can get behind. No pettiness and calling people stupid for their beliefs, what he is having a go at is the church as an organisation that has done many terrible things. People are entitled to their beliefs, but not to hide behind them.
@BritEDL Re "who the fuck" etc: Fry attended English 'preparatory' + 'public' schools and studied English Literature at Queens College Cambridge. His debating supporter, Hitchens, also attended Independent school + read philosophy at Balliol College Oxford; both have appeared as contestants on "University Challenge" and are authors and journalists. Their background + command of English therefore gave them a huge advantage over their opponents: whatever the motion was they would have won
@BritEDL As someone who, both as a Jew and a gay man, is on the wrong end of the Catholic Church, he is *exactly* the right man to rip the masks from their smiling, unctuous faces.
I could not put it better then Mr Fry. All religion is a curse of mankind. Each person has their own beliefs. Mine is to be kind to animals and love them as I would a child. This is not in the Bible or religious dogma. I am an atheist and I love gay people. May Mr Fry carry on with his views.
Comparing sex to food. What an idiote. And gay people tend to have a (much like people who follow a school curriculum instead of persuing an education) that they tend to go towards rveling in themselves as well as embrassing their homosexuality. And I hate how secular people in this day look towards gay sexuality and relationships as the prime example of sensitive cuteness and spirituality, its not the best example, by far not!
@desasterz Sex *is* - as Fry said - *a bit* like food: both a primary drives and needs of people and can have negative impact on the personalty as a whole.
"they tend to go towards rveling in themselves as well as embrassing their homosexuality"
3:17 We ceetainly should stop hearing that about Bi-Polars, Dipressed, ADHD'd people. I hav ebeen told by a darwinist englishman, whom ahppens to be my Granddad, "you have a genetic personality problem."
@seniorzacito yes, Atheists are morally superior. We don't have a book that tells us that a victim of rape must marry her rapist. We have no book that tells us to stone our disobedient children to death or to keep slaves. So yes, we are.
I'm not goin to get into a debate about whether god exists for the same reason I don't argue with my nieces that the guy in the mall isn't santa. I don't have the energy; they'll find that out in their own time; and I'd rather be talking about science. I have a "proof" fetish, you see.. ;p
@L4cer8 What harm is that. Name one aspect of teachings in the catechism which causes harm. Religion causes harm because people are sinful in their nature. Even if there was no religion wars would still be raged because people are greedy. Look how many war were started of religion in America. How many is that? Oh that is right zero
@RPSM101 I do not think you are all Hitlers, and if that is what you got from me I apologize. My point I am making is just because you claim to be an atheist or secular humanist does not make you any smarter or morally superior to anyone else. The church teaches us that people of other faiths and ideologies can be holier than we are. The church is one of the biggest "humanists" on the planet. It gives more money to the poor than any organization in the world. Look at the sisters of charity.
Stephen Fry did a great job. I am a former Catholic and I could not agree more. The Catholic Church is not a force for good at all. No religion on Earth is a force for good. At best some are less harmful than others.
@froberts7 Yeah the Catholic church is horrible giving away all that money to the poor. And the non-religious are morally superior. That is why the atheists in Mexico killed all those Catholics and Priests, that 17 states in Mexico did not even have a priest in them. Yeah just because you do not have a religion makes you morally superior.
@Melbournevilla Hitler tried to assassinate the pope. You did not know that? They tried to assasinate Pope Pius. If you do not believe look at the testimony of Karl Wolf,Rudolf Rahn, and etc. You English constantly persecute the Church, look at all the English Catholics you committed genocide on. Why did the Nazi also kill tons of Catholics in Poland as well. They also occupied the Vatican.
@SenorZacito Read the comments concerning this from the uploader!
Basically, atheism means nothing. It contains no ideologies or laws, it is a simple statement that you do not believe in any God or supernatural claims. Then there are secular humanists, this is who most (if not all) of us (atheists on this channel) are. Research these philosophies if you wish to argue against any of our morals as none of them originate from atheism.This is why we're not all Stalins and Hitlers.
I hate brits and their pompous voices. This guys all butthurt (literally) that Catholics say its adam and eve not adam and stephen. Why u mad dude lol
@ninjamojo711 The point of my example is to not insinuate that atheists are bad people. The point of my example is to show that just because you are an atheist does not exclude you from being free of error and arrogance. It is not fair for you to excuse the acts done in Mexico I had family killed during that time period, and they went after the clergy. That is why 17 states in Mexico did not even have a priest. The president at the time received a medal at a Free Mason for his actions.
@kurtilein3 Amen, brother I am all about the people as well that is why I volunteer at Catholic Charities. The Church also gives more money to the poor than any organization in the world. I know of those people. You should check out Father Robert Barron's video on Agora.
I dont understand why people cant get it through their skulls. Atheism isnt an ideology, saying something isnt there, isnt saying something else is. Taking Sam Harris example, we could accuse many bad deeds on not believing in astrology causes it. Religious directly derives their actions and justifies them with the dogma, thats the difference. Why is this difference so hard to get?
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@kurtilein3 Hello brother, I was wondering have you ever read about Cristero War in Mexico? Where an atheist president in the 1920s killed many Catholic priests. Presently Vietnam and Korea are mostly atheist yet they persecute religion, just as bad as Muslim countries persecute other religions. Catholic church gives more money to the poor than any organization in the world. Genetics and the Big Band Theory were both started by priests. Stop reading biased anti-Christian versions of history
I dont care much, because atheism actually is a meaningless label. Ideologies can sometimes be just as destructive as religions. Its true, i am an atheist, but thats empty, actually and far more important, im a humanist. Thats a movement going back at least 2400 years. Humanism is older than christianity. In WW2, humanists tried hard to kill Hitler, and humanists ended up in concentration camps and were butchered. Check Hypathia of Alexandria or Giordano Bruno.
@kurtilein3 Giordano Bruno was not a humanist, he was a Christian. What humanists tried to kill Hitler? The first ones to oppose the Nazi state were Catholic priests and Lutheran pastors, many of which ended up in concentration camps.
Stalin was an atheist, and he was a tyrant and killed millions. Hitler, by the way, was a roman catholic and stayed one until he died, the first major contract he signed was with the papacy of the roman catholic church. Im a humanist, and Stalin was not. With a 2400 year history, can you find major screw-ups in history perpetrated by humanists? Any genocides? Bad apples? By the way, Stephen Fry is a humanist. He even won humanist awards.
@kurtilein3 Not exactly. Hitler and Nazism were excommunicated from the Church in 1930, while Hitler joined a denominational Baptist "Marine Church" in in Germany in 1933, which he eventually left. Also, the treaty signed was not with Hitler, but rather the former Chancellor of Germany at the time, Franz von Papen, to extend the rights of Roman Catholic Churches in Germany. The controversy of the treaty was not its content, but its timing, for Hitler rose to power during its effect.
@kurtilein3 Just to clarify, I agree with you on most points but Hitler was very much not a Roman Catholic. The Nazi party was hugely anti-catholic. The 'Concordat' he signed with the Vatican was just a way to legitimise his rule over Germany in the very Catholic south. Google the 'Kulturkampf' if you don't trust me.
About Korea, do you mean north or south Korea? North Korea is deeply theocratic, they did build their own religion. Their god is Kim Il-sung. He is now dead, but still officially the supreme leader. North koreans have to praise him every day. Kim Jong-il, now also dead, also needs to be worshiped by the north koreans. Now, with kim jong-un, the trinity is complete. For the north koreans, Kim Il-sung stays the supreme leader.
@SenorZacito The Cristero War was a result of hierarchy of the Mexican Church getting involved in politics. The was a revolution and counter-rebellion. People were killed on both sides. Cristeros were not killed in the name of atheism. Atheism just means a non-blelief in god. It isn't attached to any political ideology.
Their numbers are so intentionally inflated and incorrect, me for example, count as a brazilian roman catholic, when in reality Im an anti-theist libertarian with heavy left-wing tendencies and addiction to high grade, home-grown marijuana.
Water4Jeremiah: Believe me God is alive.You'll find him if you seek him with all your heart in spirit and in truth.God is more than willing for you to find him: not wanting you to go to hell.He loves you with an everlasting love, He hates your sin but he will forgive you.I can assure you that this is not a figment of my imagination as millions of other christians will testify.
Good speaker----but--- as the catholic church is/was wrong---so are you. There will be no homo-sexuals in heaven unless they become born again.Read Romans chapter1 kjv God's pure word.
@TheEdduff Well there will be no one in heaven since god doesn't exist. Calling the bible 'God's pure word' hardly makes it pure or the words of a supernatural being except in your own imagination. It just makes your own personal prejudices more solidified. I am sure in your mind, even if a god told you that homosexuality was just fine, you'd still find a reason (or at the very least) find another scapegoat to make yourself feel more superior than. Take your pick, you have free will.
@Water4Jeremiah God will never save anyone against their will. I know Jesus lives inside me (It's certainly not a figment of my imagination) He has changed my life for the better. I certainly don't feel superior to anybody,He's alive and he's coming back. Wither you like it or not: your going to meet him, you have a free will choose wisely.
@TheEdduff I think the lessons of Jesus should be taken to heart, but being an atheist I temper my emotions with intelligence. There is no such thing as a god, miracles, or an afterlife. William Blake said it best: "God died, so we can live. The thing is that after God died it never came back." However I fully encourage you to embrace the selflessness, courage, and compassion that Jesus exemplifies. Those are principles that all religions display.
@Water4Jeremiah There is no difference between an athiest and a non believer.William Blake got it wrong if he said what you said he said.God's son died and rose again and lives for ever more. Actually Blake believed in a God, but I think he failed to grasp the simplicity of the Gospel. It seems very odd for you to encourage me to display the character of Jesus when you have never accepted him. As I've said before religion never saved anyone--- only Jesus can.
@TheEdduff The atheist and theist both do not believe in tens of thousands of gods, but the atheist doesn't believe in all of them while the theist doesn't believe in all of them as well, but makes a single exception to that rule, hoping that his reasons are better than the competing reasons other theists have for believing in their god/gods.
@TheEdduff Perhaps it seems odd for me to encourage you in your Christian faith since you lack faith in other people. That's your shortcoming, not mine.
@imax1971 Perhaps, if you said "I believe marriage between a man and a woman." or "In my opinion." The issue is not objective, it depends on viewpoints. I respect your right to your opinion, but you need to respect the rights of others to hold their own.
As a matter of fact, many people on both sides should learn to do so.
Dismantles is a strong word please! Not even close. As if this guy does more good than the Catholic Church. I want to see him go to Africa and change his lifestyle like the countless priests and nuns who dont have a nice flat to go back to in England. Oh, no!!! never would he think of such a thing. Its easy to stand up in front of a nice crowd and spew this hatred! Because of course Anti- Catholicism is the last accepted discrimination. If anyone spewed anti-gay crap, he'd be up in arms.
@sbzombie69 Gay people do not persecute against gays. Gay people do not protect paedophiles. Gay people do not support rape. Gay people do not burn others for reading the bible in English. Gay people do not condemn people, and with threats of hell impose their 2000 year old sets of rules on others in society. Use your brain.
I'm a Catholic, but Stephen Fry is (at least seems) like a great guy, and his speech was amazing. But the title of the video is stupid. Because he hasn't 'dismantled' it at all. It still exists does it not? He hasn't changed it, just persuaded a handful of people and pointed out it's flaws. You can do that with any subject, it doesn't mean you have 'dismantled' it.
@MrMarkJohnOSullivan "Guessed". I'm not English, but I don't really associate English people with being filled with hatred. Perhaps you can elaborate.
I can happily listen to well-informed & reasoned opinion from anyone whether religious/atheist/agnostic.
The idiots are the ones who claim to have a sole monopoly on the truth. There are just as many atheists who are as rabid about their non-belief as there are fundamentalist religious types.
Yae though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death I shall fear no evil for I am not bound by religion that teaches me to be fearfull! How I miss Christopher. Bravo Stephen, you are also my hero.
Unfortunately this is only an edited version by the BBC. Fry actually spoke for roughly 20 minutes, as did the other participants in their opening statements. Would be cool if someone had the full debate somewhere.
This was all to easy for Messrs Fry & Hitchens. Anne Widdecombe, although a genuinely decent lady, is a quite eccentric & very easy to make fun of. John Onaiyekan is a Nigerian archbishop who isn't as au-fait with TV debates as the two opposing heavyweights whose careers have been forged in arenas such as this.
It was a mismatch similar in scale to a schoolboy rugby team playing the all-blacks.
The Roman Catholic church is a disreputable institution. Many of the clergy are sexually frustated sad individuals who prey upon others. Believe me - I was one of their victims and I depise them.
Hear what God of Israel YAHUSHUA-YAHUWAH (Son and Father are ONE) saying to our generation by His chosen prophets: Trumpetcallofgodonline. com ; Letter called "Purify Your Faith, and Come to the Father as It is Written": EXCERPT: "Only in the Bible and through these very Letters, of which I have given to My prophet of the end of this age, shall you find Him and know Him."
It's true - the C Church is absolutely obsessed with sex, NOT having sex & everythung to do with it - more so than with committing true crimes against persons like rape, theft, murder. As a 'lapsed' catholic I know all about the hypocrasy of the church - how as a 4 year old I thought my soul was black from sin & I was destined for hell. the nuns who smacked me & didn't let me go to the loo so I wet my knickers in church at age 5! & the priest who died from AIDS & who felt my boobs at age 12
@satanidomini Except that Fry makes it very clear that he has nothing against the individuals within the Catholic faith. He spends quite a large amount of time at the start of the video pointing that out. His problem is with the establishment, and the corruption within it. I'm not really sure how you missed that.
By the way, I'd like to see the "sage of our age" and Dawkins go head to head with William Lane Craig, who comprehensively destroyed poor rambling Christopher Hitchens (God rest his soul) when they debated. Oh of course, Dawkins ran away from that one didn't he!
I could destroy Craig. He only argues from dogma and doctrine and always starts at the wrong point. I just take one step back and eat his arguments for breakfast.
Dawkins refuses to give Craig a platform for his nonsense. Dawkins isn't running away.
@ninjamojo711 I watched the debate and it was painful to see Hitchens shredded like that. You talk about dogma, atheism is a dogma you moron. And Dawkins is a laughing stock to real academics.
@ninjamojo711 You really must be ignorant to write this drivel. As it happens I have a first class law degree from Oxford University, I wonder what third rate comprehensive you hailed from? Galileo actually died a committed Christian, and as for comparing Dawkins to him, that's like comparing coal and diamonds. Dawkins is a philosophical moron. Read Keith Ward (Divinity professor at Oxford) who takes him apart in his own book. QED.
@andyyyp2 So your "Oxford law degree" allows you know the mind of Galileo and his commitment to Christianity? Your "Oxford law degree" still doesn't account for the fact that Galileo was correct and the "intelligence" of your church was wrong.
Now that you have your "Oxford law degree", perhaps it's time to graduate from Sunday School and maybe take a grade school science class.
@ninjamojo711 It is a historical fact that Galileo never renounced his Christianity. But you clearly know precious little history. If you think religion and science are mutually exclusive then why are so many eminent scientists Christian? dear me, your ignorance is really showing. You must have the last word, mustn't you, despite the incoherent rubbish you write! Poor thing!
@andyyyp2 You conveniently seem to gloss over the historical fact that Galileo was correct....and your church was wrong.
Your idiotic premise that since there are christian scientists, this somehow links science to religion or makes religion true is so ignorant and stupid, I can hardly believe you have a law degree from Oxford. They should take it away from you.
@ninjamojo711 The only idiot on here is you. You are clearly too limited in your thinking to comprehend the point I'm making - a common trait among materialists I find. I said religion and science are not mutually exclusive - and that logos (reason to you) is an indispensable component of Christian discernment - just ask the Professor of Mathematics and Astronomy at the University of London or say, the Professor Emeritus of Mathematical Physics at Cambridge. Fool.
@andyyyp2 The Logos concept is ancient Greek philosophy that existed more than 500 years before your mythical god-man "apparently" walked the earth or the gospel of John was developed. Give your head a shake dumb-ass. Christianity is a copy-cat Pagan Religion. Just ask Philo of Alexandria who actually lived in the 1st century about melding the Greek logos with Jewish Messiah midrash. Get your head out of the pope's ass, maybe you could see the light.
@ninjamojo711 And your point is? The fact is that it is intellectually coherent and rational to believe in a creating consciousness that transcends matter. Indeed, such explanations are more elegant and compelling than the lame fare offered by materialists such as yourself. The fact that world religions co-opt aspects of culture and tradition that are compatible with their world view is unremarkable. As are your arguments. PS I won't waste any more time dignifying you with debate.
@andyyyp2 You're not going to dignify me with a debate? A clear sign of a loser. A typical Christian that can't handle the the truth.
Even if there is "consciousness that transcends matter", this in no way proves your mythical god of the bible.
My point is that Christianity is a Roman construct. It's an attempt at Pax Romana, a way to "universalize" (catholic) religion, much like Seraphis. Making the logos as the messiah is a way of including Pagan and Jewish elements to appease the masses.
@andyyyp2 "it is intellectually coherent and rational to believe in a creating consciousness that transcends matter." -- Why is it rational? Do you consider believing in things that have absolutely no proof whatsoever a rational action? And even if you consider this creating consciousness, we do not know if it is a personal god, a force of nature, 100 gods, little green men, etc. Religions just make something up and tell everyone to believe it as the absolute unquestionable truth.
@Ericwvb2 We are in the realm of offering up competing explanations for the world we find ourselves in. Materialists have their narrative, theists have theirs. I believe the theist arguments are more elegant and comprehensive in their explanation of consciousness, purpose and value in our world than the materialist posits. You are of course free to take a different view. You might in fact say that there are rational arguments on both sides.
@andyyyp2 "Materialists have their narrative, theists have theirs." No. Materialists have all the evidence on their side. Theist have none of the evidence *they* need.
This is not about "narratives". we are not living a fucking Harry Potter novel.
This is about facts. And the fact is that theists are talking out of their arse.
@andyyyp2 You may call the theistic arguments more elegant and comprehensive (although I would argue that the beauty and magnificence found in the natural world far exceeds anything written by bronze age savages in their religious books) , but you may not call them rational, unless you want to redefine the word "irrational."
The inquisition had nothing on the spiteful venomous atheistic trolls infesting this site. How it must stick in your craws that the Catholic Church is GROWING and that even in the UK, 71 percent of people still opt to call themselves Christian. And only a really stupid person thinks that having a faith is a bar to intelligence. The Catholic Church has some of the greatest minds on the planet belonging to it, including Pope Benedict. Fry and Dawkins are intellectual pygmies by comparison.
@andyyyp2 Joseph Ratzinger, the current pope, pope Benedict, was in the lead of the cover-up of paedophile priests, and he moved people around and sent lawyers to have these men protected from law and justice. “One of the greatest minds on the planet” according to you.
@andyyyp2 you stated, "The Catholic Church has some of the greatest minds on the planet belonging to it.." Ya, they'd have to be fairly smart to keep that scam going in this day and age. Although I wouldn't call fear mongering and power lording smart as much as it is evil.
@satanidomini The point that Fry was trying to make is that Catholics today seem proud of the torture and murder committed by the church during the reformation which tells us a lot about them.
@StreetlightEagle Well gee, thanks for the compliment. Actually, we are simply not ashamed of them, because when the facts are presented to the table there really is nothing to be ashamed about.
STEVIE JUST SAID SAID!
NickPaulOates 11 hours ago
As a straight female, I am jealous of all the men that have had sex with Stephen Fry.
TRUTH: HE SPEAKS IT.
lucifersgarden 17 hours ago
Hey God, how about sending down a few more Stephen Frys and a few less Ann Widdecombes?
megamarsvin 1 day ago
@kurtilein3 I love the mirrors and am glad you've dedicated a portion of your channel to their dissemination. ^_^
seraphimra 2 days ago
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seraphimra 2 days ago
stephen fry is amazing more ppl need his guts to get the message across x
mamamonster2011 2 days ago
the inside organisation of the vatican is destroying religion and helping the world be evil . try believing in living by god wil not a man in a dress. luke 21:8 'take heed that ye are not deceived'
mamamonster2011 2 days ago
The Vatican really is a closed in organisation who believes firmly in the traditions of the Bible.
Please don't blame the actual Catholic Church, they are doing a lot of good in the world, but the inside organisation of the Vatican is telling the Churches of Catholosism to not use condoms etc.
xaxie1 2 days ago
One of the greatest speeches ive ever heard!! Any moral christian who doesnt agree with what Stephen Fry says here is either lieing or just simply unable to face the truth!
ustrip2008 3 days ago
LIKE A BOSS.
robyoungrob 1 week ago
I would do sex with Stephen Fry and I am a hetero. What a genius.
Wonmanbanned 1 week ago 2
anyone notice the camera focuses on an african nun a lot in the audience shots?
mcpwns 1 week ago 2
Never has 'go fuck yourself' been spoken so poetically. Well done, Stephen!
SillyEddyPhotography 1 week ago 11
Stephen fry smashes it. hes a boss
bendym4n123 1 week ago 2
@XSoulswiperX it's not an opinion. It's fact.
Jacklegs5 1 week ago
This guy is a moron
Jacklegs5 1 week ago
@Jacklegs5 Please.. just, wow..
some teenage kid calling stephen fry a moron. yeah, youtube opinions are negated. ¬_¬
XSoulswiperX 1 week ago 2
He sounds so much like simon cowell at 7:55 to 8:10!
LegendaryMusicMakers 1 week ago
what a load of crap
victrolajake 1 week ago
@victrolajake but its true
Lampsmahari 1 week ago
I think people on here are missing the point. Fry is not saying that the Catholic Church has never done any good - in fact his point at the end references this. He is saying that the Catholic Church will always say 'yeah but what about the good work it does', just as a criminal will always say 'yeah I know Ive killed people etc, but what about the good Ive done'. It doesnt make up for all the pain that the Catholic church is responsible for.
KungFuKing166 1 week ago
This was a bit of an one sided debate - but fun.
1. You've got 2 supreme intellectuals against a priest and politician who has never had sex.
2. How can anyone defend religion. It’s just not possible.
algeo1100 1 week ago 2
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With the exception of using the fear of damnation, emotional manipulation and flat-out dishonesty to extort money from the ignorant and indoctrinated laity; raping children and concealing their rapists from prosecution is what the clergy does best.
scotttebben 1 week ago
Stephen Fry = badass
HumaneAnon 1 week ago
Thank you for posting. I watched the full debate and I have to say it was a sorry lookout for the catholic church that the protagonists happened to be Mssrs Hitchens and Fry. Stephen Fry was majestic in his denunciations and he was in the unassailable position of authority, as he is a gay man. His obvious intelligence, charm and superiority to the claimants for the church only showed more deeply how the man made religious cult of Rome detests the very humanity it proclaims to be trying to save.
TheJrr71 2 weeks ago
what would shock religious ppl today,would be that if jesus returned,he would tear apart the religiouns exactly like fry and hitchens do,its ironic!
reeceyhiggs 2 weeks ago
Mahhvellous. Stephen Fry, the unchurched half-Jew, does not like the Catholic Church or its products or its usufructs. Great. Stop speaking English. French, German, Spanish, Dutch, and Italian are also out of the running: Catholic languages, all. Forget about anything to do with universities or hospitals, too; they are Catholic institutions. And the Scientific Method, ever hear of that? A Catholic invention, from an English monk...fancy that! Try Papua New Guinea, no Catholics there.
sallieparker 2 weeks ago
@sallieparker when did he say that they church has never done any good?
dylansfg 2 weeks ago
@sallieparker Stephen wasn't saying that everything the Catholic church has done isn't good. He was talking more about what the church has done wrong such as trying to groom modern civilisation into thinking in one way of thinking and using their influence and the loyalty of its mislead followers to get their way in political and social matters.
DaveyBoy835 2 weeks ago
@1vnman you. what.
GotmyplaceinHell 2 weeks ago
I think Stephen Fry is one of the most brilliant and pure human beings alive today. If I had to speak FOR the catholic church after that, I would chunder on the podium.
dancingdorris1 2 weeks ago
This man hasn't got his facts straight. It wasn't so much of the fact that the bible they were reading was printed in english but it was the heretical inspiration behind it's translation.
88bostonian 2 weeks ago
@88bostonian Well said, 88. These characters get a free ride because most of their audiences don't even know one century from the next.
sallieparker 2 weeks ago
@88bostonian It's a rather trivial point of contention that various authorities on the subject have never been able to agree upon. The details are, in this case, irrelevant. The point is that people were tortured and killed for reading a book, a book that for all they knew was the word of god, deemed heretical by the catholic church. Am I missing something?
gamegloss 2 weeks ago
@1vnman wow that's not very nice :P
jtjesuslover 2 weeks ago
@1vnman Go away and be an insult to the human species somewhere else.
TomFynn 2 weeks ago
Love Stephen Fry
AmbaLynnie 2 weeks ago
I like Stephen, but that was a pretty unfair and unhistorical characterization of Thomas More. While he did sentence six people to death for heresy while he was chancellor, he did not torture or "rack" them, and was executed himself under Henry VIII for sticking to his convictions and not supporting the king's divorce of Catherine.
juliaofthenorth 2 weeks ago
Ignorance is bliss.
Ecselsiour 2 weeks ago
@1vnman You're completely fucked in the head 0_0
MrJellyBabiez 2 weeks ago
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The Director of the House of Theosophy, Bill Lambert, declares that the Roman Catholic Pope is going to be a "proper receptor" to the Antichrist and will be the Supreme Leader of the new global religion of the Antichrist. This part of the New World Order Plan labels the Pope as the Biblical False Prophet.
GokyBoo 2 weeks ago
What a genius analogy with the anorexics and the morbidly obese. Incredibly true.
Cubanuel 2 weeks ago
This is the sort of anti religious argument I can get behind. No pettiness and calling people stupid for their beliefs, what he is having a go at is the church as an organisation that has done many terrible things. People are entitled to their beliefs, but not to hide behind them.
PaddyMacNasty 2 weeks ago
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Some people want young white females to mix with non-white males.
I made a one-minute video highlighting a very small sample of race-mixing advertisements.
I love white people, and I am opposed to race-mixing. But I do not hate non-whites.
If you click on my name “awhitesoul2012” highlighted in blue below this comment, you can watch my video.
Thanks.
awhitesoul2012 2 weeks ago
A good and educated argument, but I can't help but think of the bishop and the warlord :(
specialpatrolgroup92 2 weeks ago
Whoa, they got Hitchslapped AND Fried!
organaphus 3 weeks ago
I love Stephen Fry! I cannot say that enough! I agreed with everything he said.
DreamsAWorldOfOurOwn 3 weeks ago
@BritEDL Re "who the fuck" etc: Fry attended English 'preparatory' + 'public' schools and studied English Literature at Queens College Cambridge. His debating supporter, Hitchens, also attended Independent school + read philosophy at Balliol College Oxford; both have appeared as contestants on "University Challenge" and are authors and journalists. Their background + command of English therefore gave them a huge advantage over their opponents: whatever the motion was they would have won
elrjames777 3 weeks ago
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lugia3 3 weeks ago
It is no wonder that poor Mr.Fry is a manic depressive.
hard124get 3 weeks ago
The point at the end he made to Ann Widdecombe was epic and absolutely spot on.
rickstein123 3 weeks ago 11
@BritEDL As someone who, both as a Jew and a gay man, is on the wrong end of the Catholic Church, he is *exactly* the right man to rip the masks from their smiling, unctuous faces.
TomFynn 3 weeks ago
I could not put it better then Mr Fry. All religion is a curse of mankind. Each person has their own beliefs. Mine is to be kind to animals and love them as I would a child. This is not in the Bible or religious dogma. I am an atheist and I love gay people. May Mr Fry carry on with his views.
ikinmoore 3 weeks ago
Comparing sex to food. What an idiote. And gay people tend to have a (much like people who follow a school curriculum instead of persuing an education) that they tend to go towards rveling in themselves as well as embrassing their homosexuality. And I hate how secular people in this day look towards gay sexuality and relationships as the prime example of sensitive cuteness and spirituality, its not the best example, by far not!
desasterz 4 weeks ago
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@desasterz Sex *is* - as Fry said - *a bit* like food: both a primary drives and needs of people and can have negative impact on the personalty as a whole.
"they tend to go towards rveling in themselves as well as embrassing their homosexuality"
You actually believe that bullshit?
TomFynn 3 weeks ago
3:17 We ceetainly should stop hearing that about Bi-Polars, Dipressed, ADHD'd people. I hav ebeen told by a darwinist englishman, whom ahppens to be my Granddad, "you have a genetic personality problem."
desasterz 4 weeks ago
there's no one else any greatest heroes in the world than those who serve faithfully and followers of Jesus Christ.
lovencare62 4 weeks ago
He's saying what I'd love to say.
ItsTheAlfred 1 month ago
@seniorzacito yes, Atheists are morally superior. We don't have a book that tells us that a victim of rape must marry her rapist. We have no book that tells us to stone our disobedient children to death or to keep slaves. So yes, we are.
paramattic70 1 month ago
I'm not goin to get into a debate about whether god exists for the same reason I don't argue with my nieces that the guy in the mall isn't santa. I don't have the energy; they'll find that out in their own time; and I'd rather be talking about science. I have a "proof" fetish, you see.. ;p
Great speech from Fry though.
borgtwat 1 month ago
@L4cer8 What harm is that. Name one aspect of teachings in the catechism which causes harm. Religion causes harm because people are sinful in their nature. Even if there was no religion wars would still be raged because people are greedy. Look how many war were started of religion in America. How many is that? Oh that is right zero
SenorZacito 1 month ago
@RPSM101 I do not think you are all Hitlers, and if that is what you got from me I apologize. My point I am making is just because you claim to be an atheist or secular humanist does not make you any smarter or morally superior to anyone else. The church teaches us that people of other faiths and ideologies can be holier than we are. The church is one of the biggest "humanists" on the planet. It gives more money to the poor than any organization in the world. Look at the sisters of charity.
SenorZacito 1 month ago
@SenorZacito It also does a lot of harm.
L4cer8 1 month ago
Stephen Fry did a great job. I am a former Catholic and I could not agree more. The Catholic Church is not a force for good at all. No religion on Earth is a force for good. At best some are less harmful than others.
froberts7 1 month ago
@froberts7 Yeah the Catholic church is horrible giving away all that money to the poor. And the non-religious are morally superior. That is why the atheists in Mexico killed all those Catholics and Priests, that 17 states in Mexico did not even have a priest in them. Yeah just because you do not have a religion makes you morally superior.
SenorZacito 1 month ago
This is the only place ive EVER seen a bad word against Stephen Fry. Well I think he's fab
judgejudyslover 1 month ago
@Melbournevilla Hitler tried to assassinate the pope. You did not know that? They tried to assasinate Pope Pius. If you do not believe look at the testimony of Karl Wolf,Rudolf Rahn, and etc. You English constantly persecute the Church, look at all the English Catholics you committed genocide on. Why did the Nazi also kill tons of Catholics in Poland as well. They also occupied the Vatican.
SenorZacito 1 month ago
@SenorZacito Read the comments concerning this from the uploader!
Basically, atheism means nothing. It contains no ideologies or laws, it is a simple statement that you do not believe in any God or supernatural claims. Then there are secular humanists, this is who most (if not all) of us (atheists on this channel) are. Research these philosophies if you wish to argue against any of our morals as none of them originate from atheism.This is why we're not all Stalins and Hitlers.
RPSM101 1 month ago
The biggest truth is that stephen fry is a butthurt brit who will die and nothing of value will be lost. Lol
phatbimmer 1 month ago
Hey @bagarozziBoi I don't have that twang dipshit. But as they say brits were never much for intelligence this stephen fry is proof of that lol
phatbimmer 1 month ago
Stephen Fry is a good man and everything he said is 100% true. The truth hurts!
HughMcVea 1 month ago
I hate brits and their pompous voices. This guys all butthurt (literally) that Catholics say its adam and eve not adam and stephen. Why u mad dude lol
phatbimmer 1 month ago
@phatbimmer
why u stooopid?
Tenebrous76 1 month ago
@phatbimmer don't worry, we hate americans and their whiney twang...
BagarozziBoi 1 month ago
I have nothing but love and admiration for Stephen Fry. he is a hero and a gentlemen.
PocketRocketPRP 1 month ago 31
@PocketRocketPRP One of the few 'celebrities' that we can be properly proud of.
parsmad 2 weeks ago
@TempestSub God bless you brother, I hope you are having a good day.
SenorZacito 1 month ago
@ninjamojo711 The point of my example is to not insinuate that atheists are bad people. The point of my example is to show that just because you are an atheist does not exclude you from being free of error and arrogance. It is not fair for you to excuse the acts done in Mexico I had family killed during that time period, and they went after the clergy. That is why 17 states in Mexico did not even have a priest. The president at the time received a medal at a Free Mason for his actions.
SenorZacito 1 month ago
@kurtilein3 Amen, brother I am all about the people as well that is why I volunteer at Catholic Charities. The Church also gives more money to the poor than any organization in the world. I know of those people. You should check out Father Robert Barron's video on Agora.
SenorZacito 1 month ago
I dont understand why people cant get it through their skulls. Atheism isnt an ideology, saying something isnt there, isnt saying something else is. Taking Sam Harris example, we could accuse many bad deeds on not believing in astrology causes it. Religious directly derives their actions and justifies them with the dogma, thats the difference. Why is this difference so hard to get?
ceclovitch 1 month ago
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@kurtilein3 Hello brother, I was wondering have you ever read about Cristero War in Mexico? Where an atheist president in the 1920s killed many Catholic priests. Presently Vietnam and Korea are mostly atheist yet they persecute religion, just as bad as Muslim countries persecute other religions. Catholic church gives more money to the poor than any organization in the world. Genetics and the Big Band Theory were both started by priests. Stop reading biased anti-Christian versions of history
SenorZacito 1 month ago
@SenorZacito
I dont care much, because atheism actually is a meaningless label. Ideologies can sometimes be just as destructive as religions. Its true, i am an atheist, but thats empty, actually and far more important, im a humanist. Thats a movement going back at least 2400 years. Humanism is older than christianity. In WW2, humanists tried hard to kill Hitler, and humanists ended up in concentration camps and were butchered. Check Hypathia of Alexandria or Giordano Bruno.
kurtilein3 1 month ago 9
@kurtilein3 Thanks: I learned somethings from you :-)
elrjames777 3 weeks ago
@kurtilein3 Giordano Bruno was not a humanist, he was a Christian. What humanists tried to kill Hitler? The first ones to oppose the Nazi state were Catholic priests and Lutheran pastors, many of which ended up in concentration camps.
TheAwesomeMaths 3 weeks ago
@SenorZacito
... second comment
Stalin was an atheist, and he was a tyrant and killed millions. Hitler, by the way, was a roman catholic and stayed one until he died, the first major contract he signed was with the papacy of the roman catholic church. Im a humanist, and Stalin was not. With a 2400 year history, can you find major screw-ups in history perpetrated by humanists? Any genocides? Bad apples? By the way, Stephen Fry is a humanist. He even won humanist awards.
kurtilein3 1 month ago 4
@kurtilein3 Not exactly. Hitler and Nazism were excommunicated from the Church in 1930, while Hitler joined a denominational Baptist "Marine Church" in in Germany in 1933, which he eventually left. Also, the treaty signed was not with Hitler, but rather the former Chancellor of Germany at the time, Franz von Papen, to extend the rights of Roman Catholic Churches in Germany. The controversy of the treaty was not its content, but its timing, for Hitler rose to power during its effect.
KCspur92 1 month ago
@KCspur92 "Materialists have their narrative, theists have theirs." You know that bodily orifice you pull your "facts" from? Close it.
TomFynn 1 month ago
@TomFynn The intellectual quality of your response simply demonstrates what an ignorant fool you are.
andyyyp2 1 month ago
@andyyyp2 That which is presented without evidence, can be disregarded without evidence. - Christopher Hitchens.
TomFynn 4 weeks ago
@kurtilein3 Just to clarify, I agree with you on most points but Hitler was very much not a Roman Catholic. The Nazi party was hugely anti-catholic. The 'Concordat' he signed with the Vatican was just a way to legitimise his rule over Germany in the very Catholic south. Google the 'Kulturkampf' if you don't trust me.
1abrennan 1 month ago
@SenorZacito
About Korea, do you mean north or south Korea? North Korea is deeply theocratic, they did build their own religion. Their god is Kim Il-sung. He is now dead, but still officially the supreme leader. North koreans have to praise him every day. Kim Jong-il, now also dead, also needs to be worshiped by the north koreans. Now, with kim jong-un, the trinity is complete. For the north koreans, Kim Il-sung stays the supreme leader.
kurtilein3 1 month ago 6
@SenorZacito The Cristero War was a result of hierarchy of the Mexican Church getting involved in politics. The was a revolution and counter-rebellion. People were killed on both sides. Cristeros were not killed in the name of atheism. Atheism just means a non-blelief in god. It isn't attached to any political ideology.
ninjamojo711 1 month ago
@SenorZacito if your a troll then well done.....
If not (and more the like your not given how stupid people actually are) fuck you and your life with a big pointy stick..
TempestSub 1 month ago
@SenorZacito Vaticans stance on hitler and the nazis, didn't say boo to that. Tut tut.
Melbournevilla 1 month ago
@SenorZacito Big Band theory ;) I rather like that, the creation of the universe from a note on God's cosmic trombone...
BagarozziBoi 1 month ago
Their numbers are so intentionally inflated and incorrect, me for example, count as a brazilian roman catholic, when in reality Im an anti-theist libertarian with heavy left-wing tendencies and addiction to high grade, home-grown marijuana.
Konicava 1 month ago 2
Stephen Fry, my hero.
heydera1 1 month ago
Water4Jeremiah: Believe me God is alive.You'll find him if you seek him with all your heart in spirit and in truth.God is more than willing for you to find him: not wanting you to go to hell.He loves you with an everlasting love, He hates your sin but he will forgive you.I can assure you that this is not a figment of my imagination as millions of other christians will testify.
TheEdduff 1 month ago
74 priests watched this video.
tdurran 1 month ago
Good speaker----but--- as the catholic church is/was wrong---so are you. There will be no homo-sexuals in heaven unless they become born again.Read Romans chapter1 kjv God's pure word.
TheEdduff 1 month ago
@TheEdduff Well there will be no one in heaven since god doesn't exist. Calling the bible 'God's pure word' hardly makes it pure or the words of a supernatural being except in your own imagination. It just makes your own personal prejudices more solidified. I am sure in your mind, even if a god told you that homosexuality was just fine, you'd still find a reason (or at the very least) find another scapegoat to make yourself feel more superior than. Take your pick, you have free will.
Water4Jeremiah 1 month ago 9
@Water4Jeremiah God will never save anyone against their will. I know Jesus lives inside me (It's certainly not a figment of my imagination) He has changed my life for the better. I certainly don't feel superior to anybody,He's alive and he's coming back. Wither you like it or not: your going to meet him, you have a free will choose wisely.
TheEdduff 1 month ago
@TheEdduff I think the lessons of Jesus should be taken to heart, but being an atheist I temper my emotions with intelligence. There is no such thing as a god, miracles, or an afterlife. William Blake said it best: "God died, so we can live. The thing is that after God died it never came back." However I fully encourage you to embrace the selflessness, courage, and compassion that Jesus exemplifies. Those are principles that all religions display.
Water4Jeremiah 1 month ago
@Water4Jeremiah There is no difference between an athiest and a non believer.William Blake got it wrong if he said what you said he said.God's son died and rose again and lives for ever more. Actually Blake believed in a God, but I think he failed to grasp the simplicity of the Gospel. It seems very odd for you to encourage me to display the character of Jesus when you have never accepted him. As I've said before religion never saved anyone--- only Jesus can.
TheEdduff 1 month ago
@TheEdduff The atheist and theist both do not believe in tens of thousands of gods, but the atheist doesn't believe in all of them while the theist doesn't believe in all of them as well, but makes a single exception to that rule, hoping that his reasons are better than the competing reasons other theists have for believing in their god/gods.
Ericwvb2 1 month ago
@TheEdduff Perhaps it seems odd for me to encourage you in your Christian faith since you lack faith in other people. That's your shortcoming, not mine.
Water4Jeremiah 1 month ago
@TheEdduff Assuming that there is a heaven.
cloudstone123 1 month ago
@imax1971 Perhaps, if you said "I believe marriage between a man and a woman." or "In my opinion." The issue is not objective, it depends on viewpoints. I respect your right to your opinion, but you need to respect the rights of others to hold their own.
As a matter of fact, many people on both sides should learn to do so.
TheSenderOfEight 1 month ago
Who else clapped at their computer screens?
jackgm93 1 month ago
Lets not call it child abuse... lets call it child rape. LOL
Matty7159 1 month ago
Dismantles is a strong word please! Not even close. As if this guy does more good than the Catholic Church. I want to see him go to Africa and change his lifestyle like the countless priests and nuns who dont have a nice flat to go back to in England. Oh, no!!! never would he think of such a thing. Its easy to stand up in front of a nice crowd and spew this hatred! Because of course Anti- Catholicism is the last accepted discrimination. If anyone spewed anti-gay crap, he'd be up in arms.
sbzombie69 1 month ago
@sbzombie69 Gay people do not persecute against gays. Gay people do not protect paedophiles. Gay people do not support rape. Gay people do not burn others for reading the bible in English. Gay people do not condemn people, and with threats of hell impose their 2000 year old sets of rules on others in society. Use your brain.
DidItForebode 1 month ago in playlist Favorite videos
like a baws!!!!
kongvinter33 1 month ago
I'm a Catholic, but Stephen Fry is (at least seems) like a great guy, and his speech was amazing. But the title of the video is stupid. Because he hasn't 'dismantled' it at all. It still exists does it not? He hasn't changed it, just persuaded a handful of people and pointed out it's flaws. You can do that with any subject, it doesn't mean you have 'dismantled' it.
JDiddly3 1 month ago
The catholic church is evil.
321scully 1 month ago
@MrMarkJohnOSullivan "Guessed". I'm not English, but I don't really associate English people with being filled with hatred. Perhaps you can elaborate.
oBARFLYo 1 month ago
An intelligent debate about religion has been overlooked on YouTube? I am amazed and more than a little surprised.
LordPayne 1 month ago 2
I can happily listen to well-informed & reasoned opinion from anyone whether religious/atheist/agnostic.
The idiots are the ones who claim to have a sole monopoly on the truth. There are just as many atheists who are as rabid about their non-belief as there are fundamentalist religious types.
videoreff 1 month ago
Clerical fascists are dumb
haz464 1 month ago
Yae though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death I shall fear no evil for I am not bound by religion that teaches me to be fearfull! How I miss Christopher. Bravo Stephen, you are also my hero.
12Monkeys8u 1 month ago
andyyyp2 can fuck off!
AWOC221 1 month ago
@AWOC221 What amazing intellect! You're clearly a high flyer!
andyyyp2 1 month ago
@andyyyp2 Ahh sarcasm, i've missed you ever since i abandoned you for more creative, intelligent forms of wit, how time flies... mate get a life!
AWOC221 1 month ago
Fuck, I love you Steve :D
RTM666 1 month ago
we need people like this to run our countries. brilliant. fearless. common sensical
funnyhead6 1 month ago
Unfortunately this is only an edited version by the BBC. Fry actually spoke for roughly 20 minutes, as did the other participants in their opening statements. Would be cool if someone had the full debate somewhere.
AnderssenVP 1 month ago
@AnderssenVP It's all on youtube, watched it the other week.
Karateworm 1 month ago
This was all to easy for Messrs Fry & Hitchens. Anne Widdecombe, although a genuinely decent lady, is a quite eccentric & very easy to make fun of. John Onaiyekan is a Nigerian archbishop who isn't as au-fait with TV debates as the two opposing heavyweights whose careers have been forged in arenas such as this.
It was a mismatch similar in scale to a schoolboy rugby team playing the all-blacks.
Quite entertaining, but what did it achieve?
videoreff 1 month ago
@videoreff "what did it achieve?" It achieved to show 774 people that the RCC is *not* a force for good in the world. In other worlds: Result.
TomFynn 1 month ago
Stephen Fry should be president of the world.
ZelenoffFanClub 1 month ago 70
@ZelenoffFanClub And you should be certified.
andyyyp2 1 month ago
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The Roman Catholic church is a disreputable institution. Many of the clergy are sexually frustated sad individuals who prey upon others. Believe me - I was one of their victims and I depise them.
hotelflamingo 1 month ago 3
brilliant so brilliant
008maguire 1 month ago 11
Bard the Master of Laketown speaks!
FreeeeS 1 month ago
Hear what God of Israel YAHUSHUA-YAHUWAH (Son and Father are ONE) saying to our generation by His chosen prophets: Trumpetcallofgodonline. com ; Letter called "Purify Your Faith, and Come to the Father as It is Written": EXCERPT: "Only in the Bible and through these very Letters, of which I have given to My prophet of the end of this age, shall you find Him and know Him."
Watch:
" youtube.com/watch?v=YZPmTH6sloo"
"youtube.com/watch?v=lutJYDxP6ys"
"youtube.com/watch?v=R9ike7PKd8U"
Regards.
TrumpetCallofGodLT 1 month ago
It's true - the C Church is absolutely obsessed with sex, NOT having sex & everythung to do with it - more so than with committing true crimes against persons like rape, theft, murder. As a 'lapsed' catholic I know all about the hypocrasy of the church - how as a 4 year old I thought my soul was black from sin & I was destined for hell. the nuns who smacked me & didn't let me go to the loo so I wet my knickers in church at age 5! & the priest who died from AIDS & who felt my boobs at age 12
jaquie321 1 month ago
@satanidomini Except that Fry makes it very clear that he has nothing against the individuals within the Catholic faith. He spends quite a large amount of time at the start of the video pointing that out. His problem is with the establishment, and the corruption within it. I'm not really sure how you missed that.
MrBathMatt 1 month ago
@ChaosDynamics LMFAO!
fantatico1 1 month ago
By the way, I'd like to see the "sage of our age" and Dawkins go head to head with William Lane Craig, who comprehensively destroyed poor rambling Christopher Hitchens (God rest his soul) when they debated. Oh of course, Dawkins ran away from that one didn't he!
andyyyp2 1 month ago
@andyyyp2 Craig didn't destroy Hitchens! You're delusional.
I could destroy Craig. He only argues from dogma and doctrine and always starts at the wrong point. I just take one step back and eat his arguments for breakfast.
Dawkins refuses to give Craig a platform for his nonsense. Dawkins isn't running away.
ninjamojo711 1 month ago
@ninjamojo711 I watched the debate and it was painful to see Hitchens shredded like that. You talk about dogma, atheism is a dogma you moron. And Dawkins is a laughing stock to real academics.
andyyyp2 1 month ago
@andyyyp2 Ya, you're right, Hitchens shredded...the whole church.
Your church rejects Dawkins now...just like it rejected Galileo hundreds of years ago.
Who won that one?
God and the church shrinks, as Science and reason expand.
Get your head out the Dark Ages.
ninjamojo711 1 month ago 2
@ninjamojo711 You really must be ignorant to write this drivel. As it happens I have a first class law degree from Oxford University, I wonder what third rate comprehensive you hailed from? Galileo actually died a committed Christian, and as for comparing Dawkins to him, that's like comparing coal and diamonds. Dawkins is a philosophical moron. Read Keith Ward (Divinity professor at Oxford) who takes him apart in his own book. QED.
andyyyp2 1 month ago
@andyyyp2 And the church isn't shrinking you plonker. It's GROWING!
andyyyp2 1 month ago
@andyyyp2 So your "Oxford law degree" allows you know the mind of Galileo and his commitment to Christianity? Your "Oxford law degree" still doesn't account for the fact that Galileo was correct and the "intelligence" of your church was wrong.
Now that you have your "Oxford law degree", perhaps it's time to graduate from Sunday School and maybe take a grade school science class.
ninjamojo711 1 month ago
@ninjamojo711 It is a historical fact that Galileo never renounced his Christianity. But you clearly know precious little history. If you think religion and science are mutually exclusive then why are so many eminent scientists Christian? dear me, your ignorance is really showing. You must have the last word, mustn't you, despite the incoherent rubbish you write! Poor thing!
andyyyp2 1 month ago
@andyyyp2 You conveniently seem to gloss over the historical fact that Galileo was correct....and your church was wrong.
Your idiotic premise that since there are christian scientists, this somehow links science to religion or makes religion true is so ignorant and stupid, I can hardly believe you have a law degree from Oxford. They should take it away from you.
ninjamojo711 1 month ago
@ninjamojo711 The only idiot on here is you. You are clearly too limited in your thinking to comprehend the point I'm making - a common trait among materialists I find. I said religion and science are not mutually exclusive - and that logos (reason to you) is an indispensable component of Christian discernment - just ask the Professor of Mathematics and Astronomy at the University of London or say, the Professor Emeritus of Mathematical Physics at Cambridge. Fool.
andyyyp2 1 month ago
@andyyyp2 The Logos concept is ancient Greek philosophy that existed more than 500 years before your mythical god-man "apparently" walked the earth or the gospel of John was developed. Give your head a shake dumb-ass. Christianity is a copy-cat Pagan Religion. Just ask Philo of Alexandria who actually lived in the 1st century about melding the Greek logos with Jewish Messiah midrash. Get your head out of the pope's ass, maybe you could see the light.
ninjamojo711 1 month ago
@ninjamojo711 And your point is? The fact is that it is intellectually coherent and rational to believe in a creating consciousness that transcends matter. Indeed, such explanations are more elegant and compelling than the lame fare offered by materialists such as yourself. The fact that world religions co-opt aspects of culture and tradition that are compatible with their world view is unremarkable. As are your arguments. PS I won't waste any more time dignifying you with debate.
andyyyp2 1 month ago
@andyyyp2 You're not going to dignify me with a debate? A clear sign of a loser. A typical Christian that can't handle the the truth.
Even if there is "consciousness that transcends matter", this in no way proves your mythical god of the bible.
My point is that Christianity is a Roman construct. It's an attempt at Pax Romana, a way to "universalize" (catholic) religion, much like Seraphis. Making the logos as the messiah is a way of including Pagan and Jewish elements to appease the masses.
ninjamojo711 1 month ago
@andyyyp2 "it is intellectually coherent and rational to believe in a creating consciousness that transcends matter." -- Why is it rational? Do you consider believing in things that have absolutely no proof whatsoever a rational action? And even if you consider this creating consciousness, we do not know if it is a personal god, a force of nature, 100 gods, little green men, etc. Religions just make something up and tell everyone to believe it as the absolute unquestionable truth.
Ericwvb2 1 month ago
@Ericwvb2 We are in the realm of offering up competing explanations for the world we find ourselves in. Materialists have their narrative, theists have theirs. I believe the theist arguments are more elegant and comprehensive in their explanation of consciousness, purpose and value in our world than the materialist posits. You are of course free to take a different view. You might in fact say that there are rational arguments on both sides.
andyyyp2 1 month ago
@andyyyp2 "Materialists have their narrative, theists have theirs." No. Materialists have all the evidence on their side. Theist have none of the evidence *they* need.
This is not about "narratives". we are not living a fucking Harry Potter novel.
This is about facts. And the fact is that theists are talking out of their arse.
TomFynn 1 month ago
@andyyyp2 You may call the theistic arguments more elegant and comprehensive (although I would argue that the beauty and magnificence found in the natural world far exceeds anything written by bronze age savages in their religious books) , but you may not call them rational, unless you want to redefine the word "irrational."
Ericwvb2 1 month ago
@Ericwvb2 Now you are being not only irrational, but profoundly ignorant.
andyyyp2 1 month ago
The inquisition had nothing on the spiteful venomous atheistic trolls infesting this site. How it must stick in your craws that the Catholic Church is GROWING and that even in the UK, 71 percent of people still opt to call themselves Christian. And only a really stupid person thinks that having a faith is a bar to intelligence. The Catholic Church has some of the greatest minds on the planet belonging to it, including Pope Benedict. Fry and Dawkins are intellectual pygmies by comparison.
andyyyp2 1 month ago
@andyyyp2 Joseph Ratzinger, the current pope, pope Benedict, was in the lead of the cover-up of paedophile priests, and he moved people around and sent lawyers to have these men protected from law and justice. “One of the greatest minds on the planet” according to you.
jillum89 1 month ago
@jillum89 You are plain wrong. Just another ignorant know-all who knows nothing.
andyyyp2 1 month ago
@andyyyp2 you stated, "The Catholic Church has some of the greatest minds on the planet belonging to it.." Ya, they'd have to be fairly smart to keep that scam going in this day and age. Although I wouldn't call fear mongering and power lording smart as much as it is evil.
ninjamojo711 1 month ago
I love how liberal stephon fry is, even his nose points to the left.
OwtDaftUK 2 months ago
@OwtDaftUK lol, Nice observation.
T2theI2thedoubleMY 2 months ago
@satanidomini The point that Fry was trying to make is that Catholics today seem proud of the torture and murder committed by the church during the reformation which tells us a lot about them.
StreetlightEagle 2 months ago
@StreetlightEagle Well gee, thanks for the compliment. Actually, we are simply not ashamed of them, because when the facts are presented to the table there really is nothing to be ashamed about.
TraditionalistThomas 2 months ago
A falcon punch if I ever saw one.
RyillRODG 2 months ago
beautifully said. thanks for uploading
bvans187 2 months ago