"God" is supposedly far more moral and loving than us. And if we cannot allow a soul to be eternally tormented, then how we expect "God" to is beyond me.
thank you Francis for touching on the topic of God's superiority and sovereignty. The only way we can accept these hard teachings is to study the Scriptures for ourselves. We CANNOT question God's ways because as you said "His Ways are NOT Our WAYS and HIS thoughts not ours". He is beyond anyone, anything , any idea we have ever tried to understand. And, yet, He himself desires to know us and be known by us. I love HIM completely. God bless everyone who searches; YOU WILL FIND.
Yes, men are flawed, imperfect, prone to sin, selfish, corrupt, with an under-develop reason, evil since youth, with a broken nature and character that is way, WAY below God's nature and character. That is true, as every theologian will confirm. But as all intelligence design "scientist" will tell you, men is so by design! How nice and fun this undying father is to his children! Really nice!
Oh my Western Imposed Deity!! This guy has just realized that "justice" means bloody punishment for uninformed decision of naive people!! He sounds smart, but he is not ready to take the next step which to accepts that Christian theology and doctrine doesn't makes sense.
@Loliplaya Listen again disregarding the title of the video, so that you don't go into the message with a preconceived notion of what's going to be said. Let me know if you still have any questions after that.
Sometimes people reflect maniacal gods because they have never tasted of One so good. So, remember, patience enables us all to heal those who are so ill.
Btw, I was one of those zealots at one time--unfortunately. 8])
@theNCGstudios Me too. You're right. I'm sorry. I shouldn't have reacted like that. But for my defense, I just hate it when people attack Jesus. People can attack me and persecute me as much as they want, but I don't tolerate attacks on Jesus. It angers me and hurts me, and I take it personally.
@Cutie9326 Don't take offense when people attack the false idol that you call "jesus" because dumb, mute idols don't get their feelings hurt. Maybe someday you'll meet the real Jesus.
@theNCGstudios Also, I've been quite depressed and vulnerable these days, because it seems that as hard as I try, I can't love Him with the perfect, flawless, infinite love that He has for me, I always fall short, and He deserves nothing short from that. And I've been praying to God for months, to bring a special someone into my life (a great and true friendship, a soul mate), and it seems that my prayer will not be answered any time soon. I crave human company and relationship...
@Cutie9326, i have similar problems. One idea that has encouraged me, though, is that God ordained satan's own will, then sin, to exist so that we might love Him more.
Basically, it's the forgiveness of the creditor illustration. It's why striving for righteousness and wisdom over God Himself led the jews from God and those who sought God (even unknowingly) were led to Him through Jesus.
Even sin exists for God's will. Read Rev. 3:14 onward and you'll see this stated explicitly.
We will certainly pray for you. God knows our human limitations and still loves us even when we do not always hit our marks. It is marvelous that you want to love Him with all your might. I am sure that you do...we all have room for growth. Hang in there! As far as finding someone to be a soulmate...God's timing is the best timing. It is normal to want company and friendship...join us at Kaine Diatheke on Facebook! We will be your friend. Rhonda Jones
@Heysuperfuzz If I could find all the people that I've led away from God, in a desperate attempt to keep them out of the mythical torture chamber, in my ignorance, I would seek to undo what I have done. Sometimes, I just wish I could turn back time and do everything differently. I never meant to led them away from God or hurt them. Quite the opposite, all I cared about was their safety. Today, I expose the lies and pagan doctrines of the religious system. I hope that makes a difference...
@Cutie9326 I think this becomes much easier whe we focus on the fact that the Spirit of Christ comes into the heart of aliented sinner and brings him hope, love, joy, and forgiveness. Whether hell is real or not, let's just be Jesus to people and direct them to communion with God the father in the commuion of the saints. You sound like a sincere soul Cutie. God digs sincerity!
@Heysuperfuzz According to the Damnationists, the mythical place called "hell" has nothing to do with destruction, but with "eternal torment". As for destruction, you confuse Damnationism with annihilationism. Both are unbiblical. Destruction is simply about physical death, not the afterlife. Study the original languages. Also, apolumi only means "destruction" in the sense of "lost" or "perished". Not tormented or annihilated. Read: "Eternal death", by Gary Amirault on the Tentmaker site...
@Heysuperfuzz Not everyone is a "Christian" because of fear of the hell myth. In fact, it can be easily proved that the hell myth turn many people to atheism and lead people away from God. Who can blame them for not wanting to worship a maniacal "god" who would most likely torture them and their loved ones for eternity? I've been a Damnationist at some point in my life, though I took no pleasure in it, like some seem to do, I spent many days trying to snatch people from the flames...
@TheJaggedEdgeShow This is not a "what if" question, you are definitely wrong, well, your grammar is, and I am not a native speaker of English. I think you meant to say "what if you're (you are) not your (possessive). Choose your spelling correctly, my friend, and BTW, the Bible, in its original form doesn't talk about hell at all. Find direct translations, hell does not appear in any of them.
@estuchedepeluche Well duh, the word "hell" isn't in there, the Bible is in Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic, not English :p. The word Trinity isn't there either and in Jacob's dream we don't truly know if it's a ladder, staircase or anything. Back to the word "hell", its linguistic equivalents are most certainly there, though I don't know Greek, I am a student of Biblical Hebrew.
@TheJaggedEdgeShow, thanks for the clarification, but I didn't use the word "maniacal", which refers to high levels of emotion, most commonly excitement or anger [manic-depressive character is now called bipolar]. Others used it, I didn't. I don't know how this is relevant to the video here, but, thanks for the clarification.
My point, is that God created men, with full knowledge for the future and omnipotence to alter it, yet He chose to create people that will go to Hell, fun, no?
@Heysuperfuzz ...And in my ignorance, I led many people away from God. My intentions were good, I just wanted to keep them safe. The thought of even one soul suffering for eternity made me sick to my stomach. This whole insane religious doctrine of infinite punishment for finite sins committed in a short mortal life is the epitome of injustice and total insanity. Even people like Hitler, Stalin and Bin Laden weren't that sadistic. Yet, people say this is how our loving Father is. Sick...
@Cutie9326, the problem is that you're comparing the love a man can have to being the same thing as God's. You can never think this way about any issue since, everything that is good comes before man, as good is simply the nature of God's will.
Hitler, Stalin, and Bin Laden wouldn't deserve HELL for what we typically view as "bad". They would deserve hell for turning from God. That which comes out defiles the man. The hating of God and His word preceeds their murders. Crime against man=/=God.
Mat 18:1-4 ...Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven? And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them, And said, Verily I say unto you, EXCEPT YE BE CONVERTED, AND BECOME AS LITTLE CHILDREN, YE SHALL NOT ENTER INTO THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN. Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins maybe blotted out. Act.
@DavidCCookVideos Hell is real regardless of what you choose to believe. You must understand that God is infinitely holy, infinite. Therefore any sin that we commit against an infinitely holy God is worthy of infinite punishment. This is why he sent his son Jesus Christ to die for our sins so we would not go to Hell... If there wasn't a Hell then Jesus Christ wouldn't have any significance. He is saving us from our own sin by allowing us to repent. I know Hell is real beyond a doubt. Obey God.
Hell is the wrath of God's eternal flame where the fire is never quenched. There they will all burn for all of eternity. In fire beyond anything we could ever again.
@AnkhareonThere is historical evidence other than the Bible proving Jesus lived.Theres no disproving that, but it is your choice whether or not youbelieve what He taught and who He is.It cant be explained.God has pursued me and given me more love than I could ever imagine.Just the fact that you have watched this video and ithas aggrivated you so much that you feel obligated to respond to it just shows God pursuing you He is trying to show you how much He loves you and yearns for you to know Him.
@briea12 Aggravated? Disbelieving that someone could react like this perhaps, but I only commented on the person who made the video, at least at first. Because, you know, he's saying some pretty ridiculous (and funny) things.
Also, if someone all powerful wanted to pursue me, all they'd have to do was introduce themselves. If that person were omniscient they'd also know causing me to comment on videos is not an effective method of conversion for me.
In reading some of the comments, it breaks my heart that so many missed the point of this message. For just a moment, stop thinking that your brain, your reasoning, and your intellect are "it." I don't care how smart you are or what your IQ is. You are a puny little creature with a created brain trying to define and understand a limitless being who has always and will always exist. No one created Him. He just "is."
If you could pause to consider what that could possibly look like, you'd laugh
1. If we define God as a being in which nothing greater could exist, then he would excel all things in every way.
2. If he excels all things in every way, then his standard of morality must be the greatest standard known.
3.God is a being in which none greater can exist, and his standard of morality is the greatest standard.
Now this argument does not prove God's existence, but if we do define God as the greatest possible being, then his morality is the greatest possible standard.
Thank you Francis Chan for your humble teaching ... I appreciate your heart and the truth you communicate because of your desire to seek our Lord and accurately communicate what you have learned through His word!
@UniversalismRefuted Back when the bible was written slaves and stoning to death existed, torture as a punishment existed world wide. Based on our developed sense of human rights.
@UniversalismRefuted Human rights is the standard. It's more developed because there are less people suffering under the guise of justice. Our sense of right and wrong is also more developed, hence why none of us have slaves building us a temple or monument.
@anakso Not so fast, you have a lot of presuppositions here. Using words like "wrong, justice, suffering and rights" all require a standard to determine what their meaning and value is.Without a fixed standard, "human rights" are arbitrary so again I ask you, what standard do you use to determine this?
@UniversalismRefuted Standards defined in basic human rights acts. Such as slavery=bad. Torturing someone to death as a punishment=bad. Yes these are hard things to define; would you rather it go back to how it was 2000 years ago?
@anakso So what you're saying is that people can only judge right from wrong based on man made documents or populous vote? See if that's the case then Abraham Lincoln was wrong to fight against slavery because that was what the majority rule was. You are still relying on presupposed morals here without giving an account for their origin.
@anakso There are more slaves now than in any other time of history, check it out on the UN website itself, your argument is illogical, because without God's standards we choose our own, if we choose our own what is wrong for you may be right for me. Society doesn't determine right or wrong God alone does.
@MessiahYeshuaLives1 Of course there is, there are so many more people living now than there ever has been before (% speaking it's much less). But now at least our society knows slavery is wrong, and for the most part so do the people doing it. God doesn't decide anything....he's a character in a book, you know that right?
@anakso See in the past it was society that decided that slavery was good so according to you, society could very easily "decide" that it's right again and you would (by your own idea) be ok with it.
I just spent nearly 10 minutes of my life waiting for Mr Chan to get to the point and all I get lead to is a book with an ambiguous title?? Philosophy has no place in the proclamation of the Gospel. The word of God is final authority we dont need to fast concerning sound doctrine and truth. So whats the conclusion? Hell or no Hell?
If you are looking for preacher/teacher that gets straight to the point listen to the TIM CONWAY message ARE YOU SAFE FROM GOD? sermon jam on utube
"The Bible is so ridiculously brutal even I'm having trouble deluding myself into buying it. Please pray for me, and with your help, my conscience can be buried under stacks of cash from the sales of my new book"
That's what I'm getting from this video.
You know who else doesn't think like us? Crazy people. That doesn't mean we should hold them up as the gold standard of morality.
Besides, what does a unique entity know about interpersonal relationships? By definition it can't have them.
@albertlisty I never said the Bible's brutality made it false. I suggested it's a poor moral standard, and nobody who read the thing should knowingly use it as such. I'm pointing out the holes in the logic used in the video.
For example, I would never think to enact the Holocaust, and I would say I think quite differently to Hitler, that doesn't mean he's the very definition of ethical perfection, or that his ideas should be observed as anything other than what not to do.
@Ankhareon, I guess the reason I asked that is because you said you are having a hard time buying it. That, to me, would mean that you don't believe it or are having trouble believing it.
Does that make sense?
Also, you just now said, "I suggested it's a poor moral standard,..."
Why is that? What is it about the morality in the bible that you find as a poor standard? Examples would help understand what you mean.
@albertlisty I'm simply looking at the "crimes" and looking at how God is supposed to have reacted and going "wow, that's an extraordinarily unjust overreaction". Which is to say, I'm applying my own moral standards - I have a brain, I'm capable of differentiating right from wrong in these frankly not very ambiguous cases, so I'm doing so. A single arbitrary standard of morality would ignore both the causes and consequences of any given action, so it'd be useless.
@Ankhareon, You said, "I'm applying my own moral standards"
How does that work?
Are you meaning something like, "What is right for you may not be right for me" is how you see moral standards?
I agree that a single arbitrary standard of morality would ignore both the causes and consequences of any given action, so it'd be useless. I'm not sure what is your point with this statement.
@ItsSolaFide If a being created the universe, then decided to dwell in it for whatever reason, I would not see the necessity of it being omniscient with regards to this universe, any more than I consider a programmer would know every possible thing that their program could be used for.
There is of coure no evidence either way, but there's no proposed mechanism by which a deity could be omniscient, so I wouldn't give it good odds.
Okay, so do you believe in the God of the Bible? Im trying to understand the conversation that I read between you and someone else earlier. It seemed like you did, but now after your last comment you seem like an agnostic or possibly an atheist. If so, what was the reason that you wanted to watch this video?
Okay, well why is anyone even arguing with you? I dont get it, of course you think the Bible is not a moral standard to live by, you dont even understand what them book means period. You have to except it as God's word in order to understand it. I dont expect you to live by it if you dont believe in it! So what is you biggest question mark about whether or not God actually exists?
@ItsSolaFide That doesn't make sense, believing something is true doesn't grant you an instant understanding of it, and Christians I've talked to quite consistently fail to show a stronger understanding than I have. Do you have any evidence that your understanding of a book whose writers you've never met is any more valid than anyone else's?
That's my biggest question - where's your evidence? I can't believe without evidence and yours is hardly the only God to choose from.
(I know you cant read my tone, but I am really calm by the way, not upset or anything).
It is really simple logic, I think. If you dont believe that Jesus is God, like He said He was, you cant understand that the book isnt even about morality. You would understand, that no one has ever been moral other than Jesus. Therefore, it obviously isnt about morality, it is about how to fix the problem of us not being able to be moral. Does that make sense?
@ItsSolaFide (I assumed so - there's really no reason you'd be upset at this point)
What if I believed he believed he was God? And this still presupposes God is the apex of morality which of course there is no reason to think. Of course if you are redefining the word "moral" to only apply to God, then I suppose he is by default, but that's not by his own merit. I suppose that's the only morality he'd be able to guide people towards, but who says that's a good thing anyway?
That is exactly what I am doing, their is an ultimate "morality", it would actually serve our purpose better to use "standard", that every human must live up to and the only way to live up to that standard is through alien righteousness. A righteousness that cant be achieved apart from faith in Jesus. God, in His righteous judgement has required that the only just penalty for sin is the shedding of blood. Namely, Jesus' blood.
@ItsSolaFide Gender doesn't always apply - bacteria don't have them for example. If a God had one, we could conclude there were also females of its species. Or it's lying. I don't know, but it's an interesting idea nonetheless.
You want morality to be unachievable unless you believe in Jesus without evidence? What kind of ethical guide requires gullibility to function? Well, the kind someone tells you they possess without actually knowing anything you don't I suppose. Funny that.
Im not sure what you are trying to say about Gender. Jesus was the visible image of the invisible God, Jesus was a man...
Your first comment isnt coherent to me, Im not sure what you mean by evidence, define it. There is plenty of evidence for Jesus' existence.
Gullibility is a bad word to use there, has negative connotations. What I believe is not negative, it is really positive, use the word faith to better describe it.
@ItsSolaFide I'm saying you can't have male and female if your species does not include a male and a female gender. Also nobody's talking about Jesus' existence - anyone can say they're God, it doesn't matter.
I chose the word gullible because the next sentence implied you were being had. It's not just that you have faith, you let other people's word define it, then you make decisions because of it. That's gullibility.
Who says god governs anything anyway? Where's the proof?
I suppose that a God who governs the universe can establish any moral system that he fancies. However, I dont think God randomly determined that the shedding of blood was the system that would be used. He is not dormant, He knows what He is doing.
@ItsSolaFide How do you know God determined anything? This is where evidence comes in. Prove that the system comes from God, and establish his motivations behind the verdicts, or his qualifications for that matter. Anyone can write a book, saying an omniscient man lives in the sky, and anyone can invent a system of morals. I think it's clear the people who invented these morals were ancient barbarians, but if you think it was a magic man in the sky, you have to prove it.
Okay, so it is terrible to imagine that God "lives" "in the sky", first. Not to mention disrespectful. Anyone can write a book saying an omniscient "man" (man is a bad word, again), lives in the sky? Okay, would all of them make it around the world and be 2000 years old? I know that isnt proof, just probability. Tell me what your definition of proof is, and I will go from their. Like I said, even after I provide my argument, an argument isnt going to do any good.
Read Romans 1. That is who you are, so even if you do hear the truth you will suppress it apart from the Spirit. So, all I can do is tell you that your only choice is to press into God and ask that He would reveal the truth to you. Just talk to God, the God that is shown in the Bible, and ask Him to reveal Himself to you. Just see what happens, I think He will follow through, if you really want it. But provide me with your definition of proof and I will do my best to help.
@ItsSolaFide You act as if I haven't openly inquired for all sorts of deities to appear to me. I'd love to see the supernatural demonstrated to exist, but that has never actually happened, which is kind of a deal breaker.
Proof is something objective that could not occur without the existence of the specific all powerful being you claim exists. Say, something that provably breaks the laws of physics. Well, it'd also have to be something specific to your God, not say, Thor.
Well obviously, I believe that the God of the Bible is the only God to chose from, but I understand what you are saying. I would defiantly say that consciousness, in and of itself, is enough to prove that God exists. But there are a number of arguments that can help you understand a possibility, but that is it really, just possibilities. Ultimately, all I can tell you is there is nothing that I can say to convince you really, only God can reveal Himself to you and for whatever
reason He has not done that. At best, I can show you possibilities. God has to do the real work of making you believe, you obviously cant make yourself do that...
@ItsSolaFide I don't believe without evidence, so no amount of being revealed to is going to make that happen unless I see some concrete proof. The watchmaker argument isn't evidence, but if you had evidence you could show it to me and I would have no choice but to believe. Bearing in mind of course it would have to be evidence that proved your specific God, and not just any god.
Also assigning gender to a unique entity is a bit pointless don't you think?
@Ankhareon It sounds to me like if the evidence of the ages steam rolled you you would defiantly shake your fist and modify your argument. And by the way, the watchmaker argument is not disputable. God exists whether you believe or not
@Tumenihobbies You say that having presented no evidence.
The watchmaker argument is a modified form of the argument from personal incredulity logical fallacy. More directly, it falls flat because we don't have a god-created and non-god created universe to compare and contrast so we can't possibly say if any given object belongs in one or the other. So the questions is, how could you tell the difference between a universe with a God and one without?
@albertlisty That stuff was in quotation marks, I was mockingly paraphrasing the video for comedic effect - this guy can't believe how horrible the stuff God does is, so he's asking for people to enable his attempts at self delusion.
If you want examples, try watching this video - anything he brings up and goes "I never thought of that" or "I couldn't believe that" is generally pretty bad, hence my first comment.
Francis Chan is the Man, his love of God is refreshing. If you don't understand him or believe what he's saying, then you are a lost soul. Even though I don't know those lost souls, I still pray for them.
I usually don't fast anything during Lent, but this year, I have decided to fast worldly music and then replace that with reading the bible and also this book. I have been a christian all my life but have never taken it to the next level. I have tried to be an on fire christian but every time i do it for about a week and then other things get in the way. Please pray that God will change my life. Check out my channel
Very well articulated, 'maybe there's something in these passages that He knows that you don't.' This should be enough to comfort a believer whenever he/she reads a passage that seems discomforting..
I ask you, sir: can you afford to be wrong about Valhalla? Or Xibalba? A good number of religious traditions threaten the unbeliever with bad stuff in the afterlife. You unconcernedly dismiss all of them except your own; I can't quite fathom your dismay when your own beliefs are given similar treatment. You're not terribly worried about your heart being weighed against the feather of truth? Well, I'm not concerned about YOUR bullshit, either.
"Our only hope is that he would reveal to us what he is like."
Too bad he's never said anything to me. And too bad none of the hundreds of past and present religions in the world can agree on what he said to them. If we're nothing but pieces of clay trying to determine what the potter is like, then what makes you think that you know any better than the Muslims?
Resources exist for anyone researching the trustworthiness and accuracy of these Scriptures. I believe the Bible to be the spoken Word of God because it is without error in all the ways it can be proven, which leads me to trust it in all the ways it has not yet been proven. In addition to the fact that these manuscripts have been preserved by thousands of meticulously transferred copies, Jesus fulfilled prophecies to a 100% accuracy; except for those which refer to His second coming. Blessings.
well ...as someone who has been tormented by evil spirits and delivered I am here to tell you not to tell you about the power of fear and hell but the saving Grace of Jesus Christ...
hell is real but so is heaven ...may the peace the Lord be with you Frances
If there is any way I could send Francis Chan a email or contact him, please let me know. I would like to share something with him that may help him in his search., Thank you.
@theNCGstudios Bible from beginning to end is the revelation of Christ! The one & only God/man! Jesus born to die to make a way for us to have life in him! There are divisions in the church however the way those divisions will be resolved is by continuing in the Word and submitting to the guidance of the Holy Spirit!
What exactly is it that you believe? It is not clear! How about a statement of Faith so we know where you are coming from? Bible is wisdom beyond intellect. It is ALIVE!
MR. Michael W. HeyLookAtMe asks things of people that he himself is unable to produce just like the Pharisees of old that Jesus despised. See he makes assertions about things that God has said yet rejects other things but he cannot explain why the things that he cheery picks are ture but the things he rejects are not. That makes him a fork tongued HYPOCRITE like his forefathers, the early pharisees.
The religious outfit known as "NCGStudios" is looking for mindless followers to swoon over it's ruler who goes by the name of MR. Michael W. HeyLookAtMe who makes his NARCISSISTIC videos that focus the attention of the viewer on him so that he can be worshipped instead of God. MR. Michael W. HeyLookAtMe despises the fact that God is worshipped and he is looking for people to worship him.
The RELIGIOUS outfit called "NGCGStudios" is a pharisalical group that worships at the feet of it's NARCISSISTIC RULER Michael W. HeyLookAtMe who makes proud accusations but can't back up the same type of medicine that he shovels. He is a typical modern day religious pharisee just like the ones that Jesus despised.
@Cutie9326 What you should do is dog your head out the "Dr's" rear end and answert my question. That worthless rotting corpse only preys on weak minded fools like you so I will keep posting the truth about that RELIGIOUS NARCISSIST until he coughs up an answer.
@Cutie9326 Talk about "regurgitating", you are his worthless parrot regurgitating his man made religious rhetoric. The only reason you came here to post was to cover up the things that I posted about that swine. When you throw a rock into a pack of dogs, the one that yipes is the one that got hit.
@gtrjunky Why don't you just go lose yourself somewhere, huh? No one asked you to write all that BS and insults. Go post in some other videos and leave if you don't like it. That's really disgusting of you to attack Dr. Jones like you do. If you shut your stupid mouth, you could actually learn something. If you want to believe in the hateful, angry, bloothirsty, child abuser "god" of the satanic and misguided religious system, then go do that and leave us the fuck alone...
@gtrjunky Maybe you should think about the fact that God is not the torture chamber making maniac that most people make him out to be. Hint hint, the most prevailing doctrine in the Christian church for its first five hundred years didn't have a "hell" in it because that pagan myth never was in the original languages of the Bible. The Father never poured His wrath upon His innocent Son. Jesus was killed by evil, fallen humans who should take responsibility for their actions. God is love...
@Cutie9326 Maybe you should pull that big stick out of your eye and answer my question you fork tongued hypocrite? I asked you what the basis was for anything you say about the bible you hypocrite. Don't bore me with a bunch of crap about "original languages" because you don't know what you're talking about. That douchebag "Dr" is nothing but a cockroach that preys on stupid people like you. Go swoon over him because that's what he wants. He can kiss my foot.
@gtrjunky The Dr. know way better than you do. Maybe you should go and study the original languages so you can show yourself approved. Then you would stop saying so many stupidities and you would quit defaming God. I'm really getting sick of Damnationists and atheists. I've tried being nice and all they ever do is regurgitate the shit they have heard from the pulpit, mocking or defaming, or calling Him an "imaginary friend". I'm not wasting my time with stubborn ones...
@Cutie9326 The "Dr." is a self exalting narcissist and knows nothing about the One true God and neither do you. The "Dr" can stick his head between his own legs and kiss his own rear "arse".
@gtrjunky Those are grave accusations and I think you should apologize to Dr. Jones for that. Don't judge lest you be judged. Look in the mirror and ask God to free you from your hypocrisy. The satisfaction theory of the atonement was invented by Anselm of Canterbury in the 11th century and in the 16th century, Calvin built the penal substitution theory of the atonement on it. It was never heard of during the first1000 years of Christianity. Get your facts right. Face it, you've been lied to...
@Cutie9326, What do you believe Jesus was saying here?
“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’ - Matthew 7:21-23(NASB)
If the creator's justice is "actually more developed" than ours (4:01), then it cuts both ways. Those that say this God's justice is "good" are just as undeveloped as those like me who say this God's justice is "disgusting". Yes, something is "off" about this God (8:08) - It's that he only exists in the imaginations of believers.
The reason the scumbag outfit known as NCGStudios are PHARISAICAL HYPOCRITES is because they ask things of people that they themselves are not able to do therefore they are just like the PHARISEES of old.
You love the canon of the pharisees and we reject it. So, label, and keep labeling, but hopefully, some day, you will not be so afraid to love. may God bless. we do love you much.
@theNCGstudios See your personal gripes don't constitute a valid objection. Just because you don't like something doesn't make it untrue. Buit sadly because you are nothing but a bunch of RELIGION MAKERS that cannot do what you ask of others then this means that you are just a modern day version of the scumbag PHARISEES of old.So why don't you cough up some answers as to why you get to cherry pick the things that you like from the bible and reject the rest?
@theNCGstudios We know that you're not going to answer because your just a stinking narcissistic RELIGIONIST who want's his cake and eat it too. You refrain from commenting until you can back up your own words HYPOCRITE!
@theNCGstudios The canon of the pharisees is to be rejected. The Bible is nothing more than a pile of different opinions, views, perceptions and interpretations. If you asked ten people to write a journal about God, you'd end up with all kinds of different opinions, views, perceptions and interpretations. That's why we have 40 000 different denominations of Christianity. We can learn from the Bible, but absolutism is utterly absurd...
@Cutie9326 You're probably just one of the mindless, subjugated followers of the cockroach club known as "NCGStudios" herre to fill up the page with empty unsubstantiated rhetoric so that the truth that is said about that filthy narcissistic outfit won't be seen by others.
@Cutie9326 Paul in the Bible said that we all know in part and prophecy in part. All people have bits and pieces of truth. But most people tend to forget that Jesus said, "I am the truth, the way and the life" and not, "I am the way and the life, but the Bible is the truth." True Christianity is a relationship with Christ, not a relationship with a book. "search the scripture for in them, you THINK that you have eternal life." Most people practice bibliolatry...
@Cutie9326 No they don't, it's actually just religion makers like you that attack the bible because you simply don't like what it says. It's people like you that are the RELIGIONISTS because you reject God's word in favor of the words of men because you love to have your ears tickled.
@Cutie9326 Paul wasn't referring to man's understanding of the word, he was talking about what can be known about God. Once again though you attack the bible in one breath and then quote it in another. HYPOICRITE!
@Cutie9326 So how about it? Why is it that you can sit here and make all these assertions from the bible and then turn around and attack it? Oh because you're a hypocrite, that's why.
@Cutie9326 It's funny how in Jesus day that no one tried this obsurdity to attack the clarity of God's word. The reason is that most had read the scriptures so for anyone to try this cheap satanic tactic would have been refited by the masses.
@theNCGstudios God uses our past faults and mistakes for good. When I think about all the sins that I've committed, I'm certainly not proud of myself, but when I see that God worked it all out to me good and used that to grow me and teach me, I love God all the more and cry tears of gratitude. God is amazing. I love Him so much. I know He will comform me to His image and make me just like Him. He keeps His promises and I trust Him...
@Cutie9326 You have no clue what God does or says because you reject His word you stinking hypocrite. You love the god that looks, thinks and acts like that NARCISSISTIC RULER that heads the religious organization that you follow. nYou have no idea what Gos'a promises are because the only "god" that speaks to you is MR. Michael W. HeyLookAtMe.
@Cutie9326, I'm guessing from reading a lot of your posts that you are claiming to be a Christian, right?
I believe that Jesus is my Lord and Savior.
Because of that, in the sense that iron sharpens iron, I must request that you go back and reread what you have been posting. You are not reflecting Christ in the things you write. You are not conforming to His image when you are insulting to others.
There are proper ways that we can discuss these issues without being rude or condescending. Please review what you have written and take this criticism in love.
@theNCGstudios What so many people don't get is that the Lake of Fire is not literal but symbolical. In fact, the Lake of Fire is God. The Bible says that God is love AND a consuming fire, that His ministers are flames of fire. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that the Lake of Fire is punishment. The Lake of Fire is salvation. It's being in Christ and part of the body of believers. Fire, brimstone/sulfur and worms in the Bible are symbols of purification.
@Cutie9326 No you wish that it was "symbolic" unfortunately there is NOTHING in the text to indicate that it is "symbolic". It's funny how things that people don't like are all labeled as "symbolic" yet the things that you do like are taken as literal. Yes, yet another example of why you people are fork tongued liars.
@theNCGstudios Jesus said that everyone will be salted with fire. The Bible talks about fiery trials. They are used to grow and teach us. The bleievers live continually in the Lake of Fire (God) and are flames of fire. Trials and sanctification are part of the process of spiritual training and growth. The 1st birth is physical, the 2th birth is spiritual. The 1st death is physical, the 2th death is spiritual. The 2th spiritual death undo the 1st spiritual death.
@Cutie9326 Hebrews also says that "Purification" has already been made by Christ at the cross so there is nothing left to "purify" because all that will be made pure is accomplished. The problem is that that purification doesn't apply to every single person, it applies to those who believe.
@Cutie9326 The only things that fire is described as purifying are precious metals and nowhere are wicked and unrepentant people described as such. Fire is also described as being used to destroy which is what the Lake of Fire is used for in the wicked.
@theNCGstudios We then become new creatures in Christ and part of the body of believers, we are then made alive in Christ. Each in his own turn, as Paul said. We become flames of fire in the Lake of Fire and as we're being purified we become more and more like Him, more comformed to His image. The 2th death (spiritual) is to become spiritually alive. It undo the 1st death (spiritual). Most people (especially the Fundies) don't get it.
@Cutie9326 You have basis to make any assertions from what the bible says anyway becayuse you reject trhe word of God so anythingf you say is NOTHING but empty rhetoric that you have been fed by your handlers.
@Cutie9326 The Lake of Fire is NEVER described as being a place of purification because Hebrews says that Christ''s blood has already made purification for those who eagerky await Him (Hebrews 9) so it looks like you are wrong and deeply confused.
@theNCGstudios They think that the 2th death is to remain spiritually dead forever. That's no 2th death! Those people were spiritually dead to begin with, they were born spiritually dead. The 2th death (spiritual) is the undoing of the 1st death (spiritual), it is to become spiritually alive, regenerated. Christians have died the 2th spiritual death, that's dying to the sin nature/old man and to become spiritually alive...
@Cutie9326 No, wew believe that the second death is the end of the wicked and the end of death and all things that are evil including lying universalists. It's too bad that you don't have the courage to reply to me directly but that's ok because I have a lot of endurance and I can type all night and all da y if needed so get ready. When this is done your comments will ALL be replied to and soundly refuted.
@theNCGstudios Some people should definitely read John 12:24, 1 Corinthians 15:19, 36. The only way to become spiritually alive is to die the 2th spiritual death that undo the 1st spiritual death. All believers have already died the 2th spiritual death and become spiritually alive (regenerated). Eventually all unbelievers will die the 2th spiritual death and become spiritually alive as well. That&#
"God" is supposedly far more moral and loving than us. And if we cannot allow a soul to be eternally tormented, then how we expect "God" to is beyond me.
FollowerOfTheGods 1 day ago
thank you Francis for touching on the topic of God's superiority and sovereignty. The only way we can accept these hard teachings is to study the Scriptures for ourselves. We CANNOT question God's ways because as you said "His Ways are NOT Our WAYS and HIS thoughts not ours". He is beyond anyone, anything , any idea we have ever tried to understand. And, yet, He himself desires to know us and be known by us. I love HIM completely. God bless everyone who searches; YOU WILL FIND.
mitroxy1 1 day ago
Yes, men are flawed, imperfect, prone to sin, selfish, corrupt, with an under-develop reason, evil since youth, with a broken nature and character that is way, WAY below God's nature and character. That is true, as every theologian will confirm. But as all intelligence design "scientist" will tell you, men is so by design! How nice and fun this undying father is to his children! Really nice!
estuchedepeluche 1 day ago
Oh my Western Imposed Deity!! This guy has just realized that "justice" means bloody punishment for uninformed decision of naive people!! He sounds smart, but he is not ready to take the next step which to accepts that Christian theology and doctrine doesn't makes sense.
estuchedepeluche 2 days ago
you just uncovered a rich nugget of truth about who God reveals truth to...Praise God
LondonBrondonCorp 3 days ago
Am sry people, dont get the whole message...(i feel stupid askin this)...what is Chan's point in one simple sentence?
Loliplaya 4 days ago
@Loliplaya Listen again disregarding the title of the video, so that you don't go into the message with a preconceived notion of what's going to be said. Let me know if you still have any questions after that.
Gforce083 4 days ago
Sometimes people reflect maniacal gods because they have never tasted of One so good. So, remember, patience enables us all to heal those who are so ill.
Btw, I was one of those zealots at one time--unfortunately. 8])
theNCGstudios 4 days ago
@theNCGstudios Me too. You're right. I'm sorry. I shouldn't have reacted like that. But for my defense, I just hate it when people attack Jesus. People can attack me and persecute me as much as they want, but I don't tolerate attacks on Jesus. It angers me and hurts me, and I take it personally.
Cutie9326 4 days ago
@Cutie9326 Don't take offense when people attack the false idol that you call "jesus" because dumb, mute idols don't get their feelings hurt. Maybe someday you'll meet the real Jesus.
UniversalismRefuted 4 days ago
@theNCGstudios Also, I've been quite depressed and vulnerable these days, because it seems that as hard as I try, I can't love Him with the perfect, flawless, infinite love that He has for me, I always fall short, and He deserves nothing short from that. And I've been praying to God for months, to bring a special someone into my life (a great and true friendship, a soul mate), and it seems that my prayer will not be answered any time soon. I crave human company and relationship...
Cutie9326 4 days ago
@Cutie9326, i have similar problems. One idea that has encouraged me, though, is that God ordained satan's own will, then sin, to exist so that we might love Him more.
Basically, it's the forgiveness of the creditor illustration. It's why striving for righteousness and wisdom over God Himself led the jews from God and those who sought God (even unknowingly) were led to Him through Jesus.
Even sin exists for God's will. Read Rev. 3:14 onward and you'll see this stated explicitly.
Sudhish86 3 days ago
@theNCGstudios Maybe you could pray for me?
Cutie9326 4 days ago
@Cutie9326,
We will certainly pray for you. God knows our human limitations and still loves us even when we do not always hit our marks. It is marvelous that you want to love Him with all your might. I am sure that you do...we all have room for growth. Hang in there! As far as finding someone to be a soulmate...God's timing is the best timing. It is normal to want company and friendship...join us at Kaine Diatheke on Facebook! We will be your friend. Rhonda Jones
theNCGstudios 4 days ago
Psa 25:9 He leads the humble in what is right, and teaches the humble his way.
jrod16sports 5 days ago
How could hell be a place of eternal destruction if the word destruction means : eliminated, does not exist. ?
Heysuperfuzz 5 days ago
@Heysuperfuzz It doesn't mean that.
gtrjunky 4 days ago
@Heysuperfuzz If I could find all the people that I've led away from God, in a desperate attempt to keep them out of the mythical torture chamber, in my ignorance, I would seek to undo what I have done. Sometimes, I just wish I could turn back time and do everything differently. I never meant to led them away from God or hurt them. Quite the opposite, all I cared about was their safety. Today, I expose the lies and pagan doctrines of the religious system. I hope that makes a difference...
Cutie9326 4 days ago
@Cutie9326 I think this becomes much easier whe we focus on the fact that the Spirit of Christ comes into the heart of aliented sinner and brings him hope, love, joy, and forgiveness. Whether hell is real or not, let's just be Jesus to people and direct them to communion with God the father in the commuion of the saints. You sound like a sincere soul Cutie. God digs sincerity!
Heysuperfuzz 4 days ago
@Heysuperfuzz According to the Damnationists, the mythical place called "hell" has nothing to do with destruction, but with "eternal torment". As for destruction, you confuse Damnationism with annihilationism. Both are unbiblical. Destruction is simply about physical death, not the afterlife. Study the original languages. Also, apolumi only means "destruction" in the sense of "lost" or "perished". Not tormented or annihilated. Read: "Eternal death", by Gary Amirault on the Tentmaker site...
Cutie9326 4 days ago
Would you be a christian if hell didn't exist?
Heysuperfuzz 5 days ago
@Heysuperfuzz Not everyone is a "Christian" because of fear of the hell myth. In fact, it can be easily proved that the hell myth turn many people to atheism and lead people away from God. Who can blame them for not wanting to worship a maniacal "god" who would most likely torture them and their loved ones for eternity? I've been a Damnationist at some point in my life, though I took no pleasure in it, like some seem to do, I spent many days trying to snatch people from the flames...
Cutie9326 4 days ago
@Cutie9326 What if your wrong and hell is real, you would call God maniacal.
Don't you think that's a very dangerous path.
Just asking.
TheJaggedEdgeShow 2 days ago
@TheJaggedEdgeShow This is not a "what if" question, you are definitely wrong, well, your grammar is, and I am not a native speaker of English. I think you meant to say "what if you're (you are) not your (possessive). Choose your spelling correctly, my friend, and BTW, the Bible, in its original form doesn't talk about hell at all. Find direct translations, hell does not appear in any of them.
estuchedepeluche 2 days ago
@estuchedepeluche Well duh, the word "hell" isn't in there, the Bible is in Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic, not English :p. The word Trinity isn't there either and in Jacob's dream we don't truly know if it's a ladder, staircase or anything. Back to the word "hell", its linguistic equivalents are most certainly there, though I don't know Greek, I am a student of Biblical Hebrew.
JLtheImposter 1 day ago
@estuchedepeluche my argument is not whether hell is real or not ( which I believe it is ).
My question is calling God maniacal for any reason.
Who are we to judge God on any level, that would be foolish.
I have read many posts of people who are very disrespectful of God.
Some calling him an ogre others like the posts below.
What if YOU'RE wrong and hell is real?
Would you still call God maniacal?
And if I am wrong, then God is even more merciful than I could have imagined.
Never maniacal!!!
TheJaggedEdgeShow 1 day ago
@TheJaggedEdgeShow, thanks for the clarification, but I didn't use the word "maniacal", which refers to high levels of emotion, most commonly excitement or anger [manic-depressive character is now called bipolar]. Others used it, I didn't. I don't know how this is relevant to the video here, but, thanks for the clarification.
My point, is that God created men, with full knowledge for the future and omnipotence to alter it, yet He chose to create people that will go to Hell, fun, no?
estuchedepeluche 1 day ago
@estuchedepeluche wasn't insinuating you called him maniacal, if you took it that way I apologize.
Another post below did.
I was just making a the point.
TheJaggedEdgeShow 1 day ago
@Heysuperfuzz ...And in my ignorance, I led many people away from God. My intentions were good, I just wanted to keep them safe. The thought of even one soul suffering for eternity made me sick to my stomach. This whole insane religious doctrine of infinite punishment for finite sins committed in a short mortal life is the epitome of injustice and total insanity. Even people like Hitler, Stalin and Bin Laden weren't that sadistic. Yet, people say this is how our loving Father is. Sick...
Cutie9326 4 days ago
@Cutie9326, the problem is that you're comparing the love a man can have to being the same thing as God's. You can never think this way about any issue since, everything that is good comes before man, as good is simply the nature of God's will.
Hitler, Stalin, and Bin Laden wouldn't deserve HELL for what we typically view as "bad". They would deserve hell for turning from God. That which comes out defiles the man. The hating of God and His word preceeds their murders. Crime against man=/=God.
Sudhish86 3 days ago
WHAT SONG IS THIS?
kevohin 6 days ago
Amen!
BlindLed 6 days ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Mat 18:1-4 ...Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven? And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them, And said, Verily I say unto you, EXCEPT YE BE CONVERTED, AND BECOME AS LITTLE CHILDREN, YE SHALL NOT ENTER INTO THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN. Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins maybe blotted out. Act.
eternityeverlasting1 6 days ago
@DavidCCookVideos Hell is real regardless of what you choose to believe. You must understand that God is infinitely holy, infinite. Therefore any sin that we commit against an infinitely holy God is worthy of infinite punishment. This is why he sent his son Jesus Christ to die for our sins so we would not go to Hell... If there wasn't a Hell then Jesus Christ wouldn't have any significance. He is saving us from our own sin by allowing us to repent. I know Hell is real beyond a doubt. Obey God.
ExecutedOrder66 1 week ago
Hell is the wrath of God's eternal flame where the fire is never quenched. There they will all burn for all of eternity. In fire beyond anything we could ever again.
ExecutedOrder66 1 week ago
@AnkhareonThere is historical evidence other than the Bible proving Jesus lived.Theres no disproving that, but it is your choice whether or not youbelieve what He taught and who He is.It cant be explained.God has pursued me and given me more love than I could ever imagine.Just the fact that you have watched this video and ithas aggrivated you so much that you feel obligated to respond to it just shows God pursuing you He is trying to show you how much He loves you and yearns for you to know Him.
briea12 1 week ago
@briea12 Aggravated? Disbelieving that someone could react like this perhaps, but I only commented on the person who made the video, at least at first. Because, you know, he's saying some pretty ridiculous (and funny) things.
Also, if someone all powerful wanted to pursue me, all they'd have to do was introduce themselves. If that person were omniscient they'd also know causing me to comment on videos is not an effective method of conversion for me.
Ankhareon 1 week ago
ITT: Minds equal to that of an apple.
blueishmonkey1 1 week ago
Humility.
cdglowlamp 1 week ago
In reading some of the comments, it breaks my heart that so many missed the point of this message. For just a moment, stop thinking that your brain, your reasoning, and your intellect are "it." I don't care how smart you are or what your IQ is. You are a puny little creature with a created brain trying to define and understand a limitless being who has always and will always exist. No one created Him. He just "is."
If you could pause to consider what that could possibly look like, you'd laugh
dianekmk 1 week ago
Seniorfisch, we don't define God. He defines us. He is beyond any definition our tiny minds could conceive. God simply IS.
When asked His name, He said, "I am that I am!" The angels worship Him saying, "He is, He was, and He always will be."
All that is left to us is to acknowledge the truth.
We can refuse to believe in gravity or try to define our own version on it, but we are only living in denial of an undeniable truth.
God is an undeniable truth as well. Denying or redefining that t
dianekmk 1 week ago
1. If we define God as a being in which nothing greater could exist, then he would excel all things in every way.
2. If he excels all things in every way, then his standard of morality must be the greatest standard known.
3.God is a being in which none greater can exist, and his standard of morality is the greatest standard.
Now this argument does not prove God's existence, but if we do define God as the greatest possible being, then his morality is the greatest possible standard.
Seniorfisch2010 1 week ago
Thank you Francis Chan for your humble teaching ... I appreciate your heart and the truth you communicate because of your desire to seek our Lord and accurately communicate what you have learned through His word!
tlwtwin 1 week ago
Our*
anakso 1 week ago
Book was written a few thousand years ago and society developed since then so yes out sense of justice is more developed than the character Gods.
anakso 1 week ago
@anakso Who says it's "more developed", based on what standard?
UniversalismRefuted 1 week ago
@UniversalismRefuted Back when the bible was written slaves and stoning to death existed, torture as a punishment existed world wide. Based on our developed sense of human rights.
anakso 1 week ago
@anakso That's not what I asked you. I asked you why it's "more developed" and by what standard you use to judge this?
UniversalismRefuted 1 week ago
@UniversalismRefuted Human rights is the standard. It's more developed because there are less people suffering under the guise of justice. Our sense of right and wrong is also more developed, hence why none of us have slaves building us a temple or monument.
anakso 1 week ago
@anakso Not so fast, you have a lot of presuppositions here. Using words like "wrong, justice, suffering and rights" all require a standard to determine what their meaning and value is.Without a fixed standard, "human rights" are arbitrary so again I ask you, what standard do you use to determine this?
UniversalismRefuted 1 week ago
@UniversalismRefuted Standards defined in basic human rights acts. Such as slavery=bad. Torturing someone to death as a punishment=bad. Yes these are hard things to define; would you rather it go back to how it was 2000 years ago?
anakso 1 week ago
@anakso So what you're saying is that people can only judge right from wrong based on man made documents or populous vote? See if that's the case then Abraham Lincoln was wrong to fight against slavery because that was what the majority rule was. You are still relying on presupposed morals here without giving an account for their origin.
UniversalismRefuted 1 week ago
@anakso, You talk about basic human rights, but you don't define where those come from.
Without knowing your source of "basic human rights" I could claim that my idea of basic human rights is the one we should use.
Now basic human rights have become subjective.
I could say that slavery = good and that punishment = good.
What makes me wrong and you right?
albertlisty 1 week ago
@UniversalismRefuted UniversalismRefuted??? LOL hard :D Not even close. I'm laughing so hard right now I'm gonna fall off my chair...
Cutie9326 4 days ago
@Cutie9326 Good, please do fall off of your chair, that would be one less idiot sitting in one.
UniversalismRefuted 4 days ago
@anakso There are more slaves now than in any other time of history, check it out on the UN website itself, your argument is illogical, because without God's standards we choose our own, if we choose our own what is wrong for you may be right for me. Society doesn't determine right or wrong God alone does.
MessiahYeshuaLives1 1 week ago
@MessiahYeshuaLives1 Of course there is, there are so many more people living now than there ever has been before (% speaking it's much less). But now at least our society knows slavery is wrong, and for the most part so do the people doing it. God doesn't decide anything....he's a character in a book, you know that right?
anakso 1 week ago
@anakso See in the past it was society that decided that slavery was good so according to you, society could very easily "decide" that it's right again and you would (by your own idea) be ok with it.
UniversalismRefuted 1 week ago
@anakso, Again, what makes slavery wrong? You have no foundation for this claim.
albertlisty 1 week ago
I just spent nearly 10 minutes of my life waiting for Mr Chan to get to the point and all I get lead to is a book with an ambiguous title?? Philosophy has no place in the proclamation of the Gospel. The word of God is final authority we dont need to fast concerning sound doctrine and truth. So whats the conclusion? Hell or no Hell?
If you are looking for preacher/teacher that gets straight to the point listen to the TIM CONWAY message ARE YOU SAFE FROM GOD? sermon jam on utube
COLOSSIANS 2:8
thelasthourgetready 1 week ago
"The Bible is so ridiculously brutal even I'm having trouble deluding myself into buying it. Please pray for me, and with your help, my conscience can be buried under stacks of cash from the sales of my new book"
That's what I'm getting from this video.
You know who else doesn't think like us? Crazy people. That doesn't mean we should hold them up as the gold standard of morality.
Besides, what does a unique entity know about interpersonal relationships? By definition it can't have them.
Ankhareon 1 week ago
@Ankhareon, You said, "The Bible is so ridiculously brutal..."
Do you feel the same way about the Holocaust? That was pretty brutal, right?
Is there a level pf brutality that you would say steps over the line for something to be believed as true rather then false?
My point is that the level of brutality that you read about doesn't mean it's not true.
It could me that it's just factual.
It could mean that it's a valid historical account.
Would you agree?
albertlisty 1 week ago
@albertlisty I never said the Bible's brutality made it false. I suggested it's a poor moral standard, and nobody who read the thing should knowingly use it as such. I'm pointing out the holes in the logic used in the video.
For example, I would never think to enact the Holocaust, and I would say I think quite differently to Hitler, that doesn't mean he's the very definition of ethical perfection, or that his ideas should be observed as anything other than what not to do.
Ankhareon 1 week ago
@Ankhareon, I guess the reason I asked that is because you said you are having a hard time buying it. That, to me, would mean that you don't believe it or are having trouble believing it.
Does that make sense?
Also, you just now said, "I suggested it's a poor moral standard,..."
Why is that? What is it about the morality in the bible that you find as a poor standard? Examples would help understand what you mean.
(contd)
albertlisty 1 week ago
You said, "his ideas should be observed as anything other than what not to do."
What is this based on? Again, there is some moral standard that you are applying in this statement, wouldn't you agree?
If so, where does that standard come from?
I'm sure it's not the bible, because you have claimed that to be a poor standard. So where is your standard from?
albertlisty 1 week ago
@albertlisty I'm simply looking at the "crimes" and looking at how God is supposed to have reacted and going "wow, that's an extraordinarily unjust overreaction". Which is to say, I'm applying my own moral standards - I have a brain, I'm capable of differentiating right from wrong in these frankly not very ambiguous cases, so I'm doing so. A single arbitrary standard of morality would ignore both the causes and consequences of any given action, so it'd be useless.
Ankhareon 1 week ago
@Ankhareon, You said, "I'm applying my own moral standards"
How does that work?
Are you meaning something like, "What is right for you may not be right for me" is how you see moral standards?
I agree that a single arbitrary standard of morality would ignore both the causes and consequences of any given action, so it'd be useless. I'm not sure what is your point with this statement.
albertlisty 1 week ago
@Ankhareon
Do you believe in God's omniscience? I am not trying to draw any conclusions on what you believe, thats why I'm asking.
ItsSolaFide 1 week ago
@ItsSolaFide If a being created the universe, then decided to dwell in it for whatever reason, I would not see the necessity of it being omniscient with regards to this universe, any more than I consider a programmer would know every possible thing that their program could be used for.
There is of coure no evidence either way, but there's no proposed mechanism by which a deity could be omniscient, so I wouldn't give it good odds.
Ankhareon 1 week ago
@Ankhareon
Okay, so do you believe in the God of the Bible? Im trying to understand the conversation that I read between you and someone else earlier. It seemed like you did, but now after your last comment you seem like an agnostic or possibly an atheist. If so, what was the reason that you wanted to watch this video?
ItsSolaFide 1 week ago
@ItsSolaFide Yeah, I am an agnostic atheist. I watched this video because someone linked it to me because of how crazy it was.
Ankhareon 1 week ago
@Ankhareon
Okay, well why is anyone even arguing with you? I dont get it, of course you think the Bible is not a moral standard to live by, you dont even understand what them book means period. You have to except it as God's word in order to understand it. I dont expect you to live by it if you dont believe in it! So what is you biggest question mark about whether or not God actually exists?
ItsSolaFide 1 week ago
@ItsSolaFide That doesn't make sense, believing something is true doesn't grant you an instant understanding of it, and Christians I've talked to quite consistently fail to show a stronger understanding than I have. Do you have any evidence that your understanding of a book whose writers you've never met is any more valid than anyone else's?
That's my biggest question - where's your evidence? I can't believe without evidence and yours is hardly the only God to choose from.
Ankhareon 1 week ago
@Ankhareon
(I know you cant read my tone, but I am really calm by the way, not upset or anything).
It is really simple logic, I think. If you dont believe that Jesus is God, like He said He was, you cant understand that the book isnt even about morality. You would understand, that no one has ever been moral other than Jesus. Therefore, it obviously isnt about morality, it is about how to fix the problem of us not being able to be moral. Does that make sense?
ItsSolaFide 1 week ago
@ItsSolaFide (I assumed so - there's really no reason you'd be upset at this point)
What if I believed he believed he was God? And this still presupposes God is the apex of morality which of course there is no reason to think. Of course if you are redefining the word "moral" to only apply to God, then I suppose he is by default, but that's not by his own merit. I suppose that's the only morality he'd be able to guide people towards, but who says that's a good thing anyway?
Ankhareon 1 week ago
@Ankhareon
Im not assigning gender to Him, He did.
That is exactly what I am doing, their is an ultimate "morality", it would actually serve our purpose better to use "standard", that every human must live up to and the only way to live up to that standard is through alien righteousness. A righteousness that cant be achieved apart from faith in Jesus. God, in His righteous judgement has required that the only just penalty for sin is the shedding of blood. Namely, Jesus' blood.
ItsSolaFide 1 week ago
@ItsSolaFide Gender doesn't always apply - bacteria don't have them for example. If a God had one, we could conclude there were also females of its species. Or it's lying. I don't know, but it's an interesting idea nonetheless.
You want morality to be unachievable unless you believe in Jesus without evidence? What kind of ethical guide requires gullibility to function? Well, the kind someone tells you they possess without actually knowing anything you don't I suppose. Funny that.
Ankhareon 1 week ago
@Ankhareon
Im not sure what you are trying to say about Gender. Jesus was the visible image of the invisible God, Jesus was a man...
Your first comment isnt coherent to me, Im not sure what you mean by evidence, define it. There is plenty of evidence for Jesus' existence.
Gullibility is a bad word to use there, has negative connotations. What I believe is not negative, it is really positive, use the word faith to better describe it.
ItsSolaFide 1 week ago
@ItsSolaFide I'm saying you can't have male and female if your species does not include a male and a female gender. Also nobody's talking about Jesus' existence - anyone can say they're God, it doesn't matter.
I chose the word gullible because the next sentence implied you were being had. It's not just that you have faith, you let other people's word define it, then you make decisions because of it. That's gullibility.
Who says god governs anything anyway? Where's the proof?
Ankhareon 1 week ago
@Ankhareon
CONT...
I suppose that a God who governs the universe can establish any moral system that he fancies. However, I dont think God randomly determined that the shedding of blood was the system that would be used. He is not dormant, He knows what He is doing.
ItsSolaFide 1 week ago
@ItsSolaFide How do you know God determined anything? This is where evidence comes in. Prove that the system comes from God, and establish his motivations behind the verdicts, or his qualifications for that matter. Anyone can write a book, saying an omniscient man lives in the sky, and anyone can invent a system of morals. I think it's clear the people who invented these morals were ancient barbarians, but if you think it was a magic man in the sky, you have to prove it.
Ankhareon 1 week ago
@Ankhareon
Okay, so it is terrible to imagine that God "lives" "in the sky", first. Not to mention disrespectful. Anyone can write a book saying an omniscient "man" (man is a bad word, again), lives in the sky? Okay, would all of them make it around the world and be 2000 years old? I know that isnt proof, just probability. Tell me what your definition of proof is, and I will go from their. Like I said, even after I provide my argument, an argument isnt going to do any good.
ItsSolaFide 1 week ago
@Ankhareon
Read Romans 1. That is who you are, so even if you do hear the truth you will suppress it apart from the Spirit. So, all I can do is tell you that your only choice is to press into God and ask that He would reveal the truth to you. Just talk to God, the God that is shown in the Bible, and ask Him to reveal Himself to you. Just see what happens, I think He will follow through, if you really want it. But provide me with your definition of proof and I will do my best to help.
ItsSolaFide 1 week ago
@ItsSolaFide You act as if I haven't openly inquired for all sorts of deities to appear to me. I'd love to see the supernatural demonstrated to exist, but that has never actually happened, which is kind of a deal breaker.
Proof is something objective that could not occur without the existence of the specific all powerful being you claim exists. Say, something that provably breaks the laws of physics. Well, it'd also have to be something specific to your God, not say, Thor.
Ankhareon 1 week ago
@Ankhareon
Well obviously, I believe that the God of the Bible is the only God to chose from, but I understand what you are saying. I would defiantly say that consciousness, in and of itself, is enough to prove that God exists. But there are a number of arguments that can help you understand a possibility, but that is it really, just possibilities. Ultimately, all I can tell you is there is nothing that I can say to convince you really, only God can reveal Himself to you and for whatever
ItsSolaFide 1 week ago
@Ankhareon
reason He has not done that. At best, I can show you possibilities. God has to do the real work of making you believe, you obviously cant make yourself do that...
ItsSolaFide 1 week ago
@ItsSolaFide I don't believe without evidence, so no amount of being revealed to is going to make that happen unless I see some concrete proof. The watchmaker argument isn't evidence, but if you had evidence you could show it to me and I would have no choice but to believe. Bearing in mind of course it would have to be evidence that proved your specific God, and not just any god.
Also assigning gender to a unique entity is a bit pointless don't you think?
Ankhareon 1 week ago
@Ankhareon It sounds to me like if the evidence of the ages steam rolled you you would defiantly shake your fist and modify your argument. And by the way, the watchmaker argument is not disputable. God exists whether you believe or not
Tumenihobbies 1 week ago
@Tumenihobbies You say that having presented no evidence.
The watchmaker argument is a modified form of the argument from personal incredulity logical fallacy. More directly, it falls flat because we don't have a god-created and non-god created universe to compare and contrast so we can't possibly say if any given object belongs in one or the other. So the questions is, how could you tell the difference between a universe with a God and one without?
Ankhareon 1 week ago
@albertlisty That stuff was in quotation marks, I was mockingly paraphrasing the video for comedic effect - this guy can't believe how horrible the stuff God does is, so he's asking for people to enable his attempts at self delusion.
If you want examples, try watching this video - anything he brings up and goes "I never thought of that" or "I couldn't believe that" is generally pretty bad, hence my first comment.
Ankhareon 1 week ago
@Ankhareon, Sorry, I missed the quotation marks. My bad.
albertlisty 1 week ago
He is wearing Converses :D
Rumberler 1 week ago
I like this guy.
regfregf 1 week ago
Francis Chan is the Man, his love of God is refreshing. If you don't understand him or believe what he's saying, then you are a lost soul. Even though I don't know those lost souls, I still pray for them.
scubadude72060 1 week ago
Great Video. Thanks for posting.
JillUnderwoodable 2 weeks ago
Being humble is not having God show you the pride in your life. Being humble is putting more attention on God and others than yourself..
MissedTheMark 2 weeks ago
Thumbs up if you find this YouTube video to be quite original. It's titled: "A Christian Gets Fired For Sharing Faith With Brad Pitt..." True story.
Mookie4820 2 weeks ago
@andrewridgway you mad bro?
zr1cruz 2 weeks ago
I usually don't fast anything during Lent, but this year, I have decided to fast worldly music and then replace that with reading the bible and also this book. I have been a christian all my life but have never taken it to the next level. I have tried to be an on fire christian but every time i do it for about a week and then other things get in the way. Please pray that God will change my life. Check out my channel
MotivationMakesMeMov 2 weeks ago
Very well articulated, 'maybe there's something in these passages that He knows that you don't.' This should be enough to comfort a believer whenever he/she reads a passage that seems discomforting..
Drooblemeister 2 weeks ago
mannnn this was powerful , im changed
edua028 2 weeks ago
I ask you, sir: can you afford to be wrong about Valhalla? Or Xibalba? A good number of religious traditions threaten the unbeliever with bad stuff in the afterlife. You unconcernedly dismiss all of them except your own; I can't quite fathom your dismay when your own beliefs are given similar treatment. You're not terribly worried about your heart being weighed against the feather of truth? Well, I'm not concerned about YOUR bullshit, either.
andrewridgway 2 weeks ago
@andrewridgway you sure had lots to say about "such BS" mr. a w -- U-GO-CHAN
scottidee 2 weeks ago
@andrewridgway Pardon the irony, but: Amen.
SeedsOfHatred 2 weeks ago
"Our only hope is that he would reveal to us what he is like."
Too bad he's never said anything to me. And too bad none of the hundreds of past and present religions in the world can agree on what he said to them. If we're nothing but pieces of clay trying to determine what the potter is like, then what makes you think that you know any better than the Muslims?
andrewridgway 2 weeks ago
I love this book! It is a MUST READ.
OurChurchintheWild 2 weeks ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Resources exist for anyone researching the trustworthiness and accuracy of these Scriptures. I believe the Bible to be the spoken Word of God because it is without error in all the ways it can be proven, which leads me to trust it in all the ways it has not yet been proven. In addition to the fact that these manuscripts have been preserved by thousands of meticulously transferred copies, Jesus fulfilled prophecies to a 100% accuracy; except for those which refer to His second coming. Blessings.
LeighJoyMaxine 2 weeks ago
Comment removed
LeighJoyMaxine 2 weeks ago
Francis is so humbled, and you can tell that he really LOVES GOD and wants to serve him.
rickmlamb1 2 weeks ago
Wow. This video spoke to me so much. I'm gunna share it with my friends!! Thanks Francis Chan!!!
Craftman368 3 weeks ago
well ...as someone who has been tormented by evil spirits and delivered I am here to tell you not to tell you about the power of fear and hell but the saving Grace of Jesus Christ...
hell is real but so is heaven ...may the peace the Lord be with you Frances
chamicels 3 weeks ago 2
@chamicels Who let you out of the asylum?
pboisei 2 weeks ago
If there is any way I could send Francis Chan a email or contact him, please let me know. I would like to share something with him that may help him in his search., Thank you.
4OrthodoxTruth 3 weeks ago
@theNCGstudios Bible from beginning to end is the revelation of Christ! The one & only God/man! Jesus born to die to make a way for us to have life in him! There are divisions in the church however the way those divisions will be resolved is by continuing in the Word and submitting to the guidance of the Holy Spirit!
What exactly is it that you believe? It is not clear! How about a statement of Faith so we know where you are coming from? Bible is wisdom beyond intellect. It is ALIVE!
Georgephyl 3 weeks ago
@theNCGstudios I tried to comment on your video and it would not let me. So I will comment here.
Georgephyl 3 weeks ago
I have not read this book, so I ask the commetators here to explain to me Francis Chan's take on the nature of hell, God's salvation, and eternity.
whitewookee 3 weeks ago
MR. Michael W. HeyLookAtMe asks things of people that he himself is unable to produce just like the Pharisees of old that Jesus despised. See he makes assertions about things that God has said yet rejects other things but he cannot explain why the things that he cheery picks are ture but the things he rejects are not. That makes him a fork tongued HYPOCRITE like his forefathers, the early pharisees.
gtrjunky 3 weeks ago
The religious outfit known as "NCGStudios" is looking for mindless followers to swoon over it's ruler who goes by the name of MR. Michael W. HeyLookAtMe who makes his NARCISSISTIC videos that focus the attention of the viewer on him so that he can be worshipped instead of God. MR. Michael W. HeyLookAtMe despises the fact that God is worshipped and he is looking for people to worship him.
gtrjunky 3 weeks ago
The RELIGIOUS outfit called "NGCGStudios" is a pharisalical group that worships at the feet of it's NARCISSISTIC RULER Michael W. HeyLookAtMe who makes proud accusations but can't back up the same type of medicine that he shovels. He is a typical modern day religious pharisee just like the ones that Jesus despised.
gtrjunky 3 weeks ago
@gtrjunky What you should do is research and study these things yourself instead of regurgitatting what you've been taught...
Cutie9326 3 weeks ago
@Cutie9326 What you should do is dog your head out the "Dr's" rear end and answert my question. That worthless rotting corpse only preys on weak minded fools like you so I will keep posting the truth about that RELIGIOUS NARCISSIST until he coughs up an answer.
gtrjunky 3 weeks ago
@Cutie9326 Talk about "regurgitating", you are his worthless parrot regurgitating his man made religious rhetoric. The only reason you came here to post was to cover up the things that I posted about that swine. When you throw a rock into a pack of dogs, the one that yipes is the one that got hit.
gtrjunky 3 weeks ago
@gtrjunky Why don't you just go lose yourself somewhere, huh? No one asked you to write all that BS and insults. Go post in some other videos and leave if you don't like it. That's really disgusting of you to attack Dr. Jones like you do. If you shut your stupid mouth, you could actually learn something. If you want to believe in the hateful, angry, bloothirsty, child abuser "god" of the satanic and misguided religious system, then go do that and leave us the fuck alone...
Cutie9326 4 days ago
@gtrjunky Maybe you should think about the fact that God is not the torture chamber making maniac that most people make him out to be. Hint hint, the most prevailing doctrine in the Christian church for its first five hundred years didn't have a "hell" in it because that pagan myth never was in the original languages of the Bible. The Father never poured His wrath upon His innocent Son. Jesus was killed by evil, fallen humans who should take responsibility for their actions. God is love...
Cutie9326 3 weeks ago
@Cutie9326 Maybe you should pull that big stick out of your eye and answer my question you fork tongued hypocrite? I asked you what the basis was for anything you say about the bible you hypocrite. Don't bore me with a bunch of crap about "original languages" because you don't know what you're talking about. That douchebag "Dr" is nothing but a cockroach that preys on stupid people like you. Go swoon over him because that's what he wants. He can kiss my foot.
gtrjunky 3 weeks ago
@gtrjunky The Dr. know way better than you do. Maybe you should go and study the original languages so you can show yourself approved. Then you would stop saying so many stupidities and you would quit defaming God. I'm really getting sick of Damnationists and atheists. I've tried being nice and all they ever do is regurgitate the shit they have heard from the pulpit, mocking or defaming, or calling Him an "imaginary friend". I'm not wasting my time with stubborn ones...
Cutie9326 4 days ago
@Cutie9326 The "Dr." is a self exalting narcissist and knows nothing about the One true God and neither do you. The "Dr" can stick his head between his own legs and kiss his own rear "arse".
gtrjunky 4 days ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@gtrjunky Those are grave accusations and I think you should apologize to Dr. Jones for that. Don't judge lest you be judged. Look in the mirror and ask God to free you from your hypocrisy. The satisfaction theory of the atonement was invented by Anselm of Canterbury in the 11th century and in the 16th century, Calvin built the penal substitution theory of the atonement on it. It was never heard of during the first1000 years of Christianity. Get your facts right. Face it, you've been lied to...
Cutie9326 3 weeks ago
@Cutie9326 The "Dr" is full of himself and he can't cough up what he expects from others.
gtrjunky 3 weeks ago
@Cutie9326, What do you believe Jesus was saying here?
“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’ - Matthew 7:21-23(NASB)
albertlisty 1 week ago
Comment removed
Cutie9326 3 weeks ago
@Cutie9326 "Dr." Jones can burry his face in a pile of horse crap because he's fork tongued hypocrite like you. Now answer my question hypocrite!
gtrjunky 3 weeks ago
If the creator's justice is "actually more developed" than ours (4:01), then it cuts both ways. Those that say this God's justice is "good" are just as undeveloped as those like me who say this God's justice is "disgusting". Yes, something is "off" about this God (8:08) - It's that he only exists in the imaginations of believers.
scottbignell 3 weeks ago
The reason the scumbag outfit known as NCGStudios are PHARISAICAL HYPOCRITES is because they ask things of people that they themselves are not able to do therefore they are just like the PHARISEES of old.
gtrjunky 3 weeks ago
@gtrjunky,
You love the canon of the pharisees and we reject it. So, label, and keep labeling, but hopefully, some day, you will not be so afraid to love. may God bless. we do love you much.
theNCGstudios 3 weeks ago
@theNCGstudios See your personal gripes don't constitute a valid objection. Just because you don't like something doesn't make it untrue. Buit sadly because you are nothing but a bunch of RELIGION MAKERS that cannot do what you ask of others then this means that you are just a modern day version of the scumbag PHARISEES of old.So why don't you cough up some answers as to why you get to cherry pick the things that you like from the bible and reject the rest?
gtrjunky 3 weeks ago
@theNCGstudios We know that you're not going to answer because your just a stinking narcissistic RELIGIONIST who want's his cake and eat it too. You refrain from commenting until you can back up your own words HYPOCRITE!
gtrjunky 3 weeks ago
@theNCGstudios The canon of the pharisees is to be rejected. The Bible is nothing more than a pile of different opinions, views, perceptions and interpretations. If you asked ten people to write a journal about God, you'd end up with all kinds of different opinions, views, perceptions and interpretations. That's why we have 40 000 different denominations of Christianity. We can learn from the Bible, but absolutism is utterly absurd...
Cutie9326 3 weeks ago
@Cutie9326 You're probably just one of the mindless, subjugated followers of the cockroach club known as "NCGStudios" herre to fill up the page with empty unsubstantiated rhetoric so that the truth that is said about that filthy narcissistic outfit won't be seen by others.
gtrjunky 3 weeks ago
@Cutie9326 Paul in the Bible said that we all know in part and prophecy in part. All people have bits and pieces of truth. But most people tend to forget that Jesus said, "I am the truth, the way and the life" and not, "I am the way and the life, but the Bible is the truth." True Christianity is a relationship with Christ, not a relationship with a book. "search the scripture for in them, you THINK that you have eternal life." Most people practice bibliolatry...
Cutie9326 3 weeks ago
@Cutie9326 No they don't, it's actually just religion makers like you that attack the bible because you simply don't like what it says. It's people like you that are the RELIGIONISTS because you reject God's word in favor of the words of men because you love to have your ears tickled.
gtrjunky 3 weeks ago
@Cutie9326 Paul wasn't referring to man's understanding of the word, he was talking about what can be known about God. Once again though you attack the bible in one breath and then quote it in another. HYPOICRITE!
gtrjunky 3 weeks ago
@Cutie9326 So how about it? Why is it that you can sit here and make all these assertions from the bible and then turn around and attack it? Oh because you're a hypocrite, that's why.
gtrjunky 3 weeks ago
@Cutie9326 It's funny how in Jesus day that no one tried this obsurdity to attack the clarity of God's word. The reason is that most had read the scriptures so for anyone to try this cheap satanic tactic would have been refited by the masses.
gtrjunky 3 weeks ago
@theNCGstudios God uses our past faults and mistakes for good. When I think about all the sins that I've committed, I'm certainly not proud of myself, but when I see that God worked it all out to me good and used that to grow me and teach me, I love God all the more and cry tears of gratitude. God is amazing. I love Him so much. I know He will comform me to His image and make me just like Him. He keeps His promises and I trust Him...
Cutie9326 3 weeks ago
@Cutie9326 You have no clue what God does or says because you reject His word you stinking hypocrite. You love the god that looks, thinks and acts like that NARCISSISTIC RULER that heads the religious organization that you follow. nYou have no idea what Gos'a promises are because the only "god" that speaks to you is MR. Michael W. HeyLookAtMe.
gtrjunky 3 weeks ago
@Cutie9326 Pretty sad that that RELIGIOUS NARCISSIST has to get his minions to come here and defend him. Typical religious cockroach.
gtrjunky 3 weeks ago
@Cutie9326, I'm guessing from reading a lot of your posts that you are claiming to be a Christian, right?
I believe that Jesus is my Lord and Savior.
Because of that, in the sense that iron sharpens iron, I must request that you go back and reread what you have been posting. You are not reflecting Christ in the things you write. You are not conforming to His image when you are insulting to others.
(contd)
albertlisty 1 week ago
There are proper ways that we can discuss these issues without being rude or condescending. Please review what you have written and take this criticism in love.
albertlisty 1 week ago
@theNCGstudios What so many people don't get is that the Lake of Fire is not literal but symbolical. In fact, the Lake of Fire is God. The Bible says that God is love AND a consuming fire, that His ministers are flames of fire. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that the Lake of Fire is punishment. The Lake of Fire is salvation. It's being in Christ and part of the body of believers. Fire, brimstone/sulfur and worms in the Bible are symbols of purification.
Continued in my next post...
Cutie9326 3 weeks ago
@Cutie9326 No you wish that it was "symbolic" unfortunately there is NOTHING in the text to indicate that it is "symbolic". It's funny how things that people don't like are all labeled as "symbolic" yet the things that you do like are taken as literal. Yes, yet another example of why you people are fork tongued liars.
gtrjunky 3 weeks ago
@theNCGstudios Jesus said that everyone will be salted with fire. The Bible talks about fiery trials. They are used to grow and teach us. The bleievers live continually in the Lake of Fire (God) and are flames of fire. Trials and sanctification are part of the process of spiritual training and growth. The 1st birth is physical, the 2th birth is spiritual. The 1st death is physical, the 2th death is spiritual. The 2th spiritual death undo the 1st spiritual death.
Continued in my next post...
Cutie9326 3 weeks ago
@Cutie9326 The Lake of Fire is NEVER rteferred to as "salvation" because Hebrews says that it is by the BLOOD that sins are remitted, NOT "fire".
gtrjunky 3 weeks ago
@Cutie9326 Hebrews also says that "Purification" has already been made by Christ at the cross so there is nothing left to "purify" because all that will be made pure is accomplished. The problem is that that purification doesn't apply to every single person, it applies to those who believe.
gtrjunky 3 weeks ago
@Cutie9326 The only things that fire is described as purifying are precious metals and nowhere are wicked and unrepentant people described as such. Fire is also described as being used to destroy which is what the Lake of Fire is used for in the wicked.
gtrjunky 3 weeks ago
@Cutie9326 Please give scripture to back up your statement about the second death being spiritual.
The second death accroding to book of revelation is the final judgment!
The first death is physical and then the resurrection. All those not Born again will have part in the second death!
Georgephyl 3 weeks ago
@theNCGstudios We then become new creatures in Christ and part of the body of believers, we are then made alive in Christ. Each in his own turn, as Paul said. We become flames of fire in the Lake of Fire and as we're being purified we become more and more like Him, more comformed to His image. The 2th death (spiritual) is to become spiritually alive. It undo the 1st death (spiritual). Most people (especially the Fundies) don't get it.
Continued in my next post...
Cutie9326 3 weeks ago
@Cutie9326 You have basis to make any assertions from what the bible says anyway becayuse you reject trhe word of God so anythingf you say is NOTHING but empty rhetoric that you have been fed by your handlers.
gtrjunky 3 weeks ago
@Cutie9326 The Lake of Fire is NEVER described as being a place of purification because Hebrews says that Christ''s blood has already made purification for those who eagerky await Him (Hebrews 9) so it looks like you are wrong and deeply confused.
gtrjunky 3 weeks ago
@theNCGstudios They think that the 2th death is to remain spiritually dead forever. That's no 2th death! Those people were spiritually dead to begin with, they were born spiritually dead. The 2th death (spiritual) is the undoing of the 1st death (spiritual), it is to become spiritually alive, regenerated. Christians have died the 2th spiritual death, that's dying to the sin nature/old man and to become spiritually alive...
Continued in my next post...
Cutie9326 3 weeks ago
@Cutie9326 No, wew believe that the second death is the end of the wicked and the end of death and all things that are evil including lying universalists. It's too bad that you don't have the courage to reply to me directly but that's ok because I have a lot of endurance and I can type all night and all da y if needed so get ready. When this is done your comments will ALL be replied to and soundly refuted.
gtrjunky 3 weeks ago
@theNCGstudios Some people should definitely read John 12:24, 1 Corinthians 15:19, 36. The only way to become spiritually alive is to die the 2th spiritual death that undo the 1st spiritual death. All believers have already died the 2th spiritual death and become spiritually alive (regenerated). Eventually all unbelievers will die the 2th spiritual death and become spiritually alive as well. That&#