Fr. Barron comments on The Gap Ad Controversy

[TheRekcabOfTheD]

We watched this in Moral Theology. At first nobody bought it, but as the semester progressed everyone got on board (almost), and it became the basis of what the Benchmarks are.

[TheSilverRanger]

My god. If that commercial was any whiter it would be transluscent.

[advantage73]

We absolutely agree with Father Barron's perspective! Thanks for posting! Btw, straight to my Favorites playlists! :-)

[ChairmanDrek757]

@advantage73 Who's "we"?

[fartonmeee]

What if the ad said "Jesus is Lord, the Son of the living God, buy our sweatshirts, Merry Christmas." It would make some people happy, but then the Gap would be a Christian clothing outlet instead of a regular store. The ad is a marketing strategy masquerading as a "statement". The Gap wants to sell clothes. It has no other agenda. To analyze a Gap ad like it was a book by Nietzsche is missing the point.

[wordonfirevideo]

@fartonmeee Come on, friend, I can't believe you're that naive! Sure the Gap wants to sell clothes, but the popular culture is filled right now with anti-religious ideology.

[123Anewme]

I agree with what he is saying but it's crazy because after seeing this many times I never even paid attention to the words, I just liked the snappy beat! lol

[vkorchnoifan]

Isn't that what got Socrates into trouble ? That self determination and narcissitic way of looking at the world made young people to care more about themselves than society as a whole in Athens ? Especially, at a time when Athens was losing a war ? Wasn't the result that Athens had to pull down its walls of defence and pay a huge debt after its surrender to Sparta ? Do we honor civic duty or to our conscience ?

[andrewnaquin]

Christmas question: If Catholics believe that "life begins at conception," why don't we celebrate Christ coming into the world on the Feast of the Annunciation (March 25) instead of the remembrance of his birth. Shouldn't we celebrate the Word becoming flesh on the Annunciation then, since that is when Christ really entered the world? I say that we keep Christ out of Christmas, put him in the Annunciation.

[mmmail1969]

My few cents worth! Freedom (like democracy) is a noble, but often corrupted concept! To be a Christian or even a just a citizen (with or without religious belief) is to accept some limits. Govts tax, govts have a wide variety of laws. Absolute freedom, just doing what you want - is like giving a chimp a loaded gun.  Christ was not free, for it was His Father's will to be done. A balanced embracing of Christ, FREES us, from the wide variety of low quality "product" in the store of life!

[HarfangX]

"It's ok for you to talk about the Holidays when you don't follow them specifically, but your stance ultimately forces Christians to call Christmas a generic "holidays" in all circumstances."

How does it do that?

I think when Xmas is mediatised outside the context of the nativity... you guys accuse people to not know the real meaning of xmas or steal xmas from you...

And when people call it by a different name... you guys are still angry... because it can only be xmas and your version of it.

[HarfangX]

"maybe even a free from work day but don't force Christians (Muslims, Hindus etc)to follow a watered down meaningless day"

Who is forcing who to do what here? Me?

I don't think this is representative of what is going on here in the least.

[HarfangX]

"maybe even a free from work day but don't force Christians (Muslims, Hindus etc)to follow a watered down meaningless day"

What do you know about my Xmas? Why do you have to call it watered down? If I was as easy to offend as what I percieve from most Christians that is what I'd reply to you...

I celebrate Xmas outside the context of any faith. Call it Winterval, Yuletide, Saturnalia... I don't really care.

To me when christians feel that xmas is getting hijacked... I find it's a bit ironic.

[HarfangX]

"There is nothing wrong with appropriating pagan celebrations for Christians."

I would expect that you are quite fine with it working the other way around too right?

"The idea here is however that the definitive CHRISTmas holiday celebrating the BIRTH of CHRIST the SON of GOD and MESSIAH is being watered down in the public sphere on the pretext that it may offend some people"

Are you sure you are not lending those people intentions?

This gap ad is precisely about inclusivity...

[PuraguCryostato]

@HarfangX It's a different situation though. In terms of pagan holidays the worshipers of Saturn are long gone. Xmas is a particular Christian holiday with a central importance. To dilute it means to relegate that central tenet of Christianity to nothing. There are already many secular holidays and more holidays such as those can be created too, if they're necessary. There could be a HUMANITY Day for example :). Inclusiveness is good if people know a little why Xmas is there. :-)

[HarfangX]

@PuraguCryostato I see mainly 3 things

1- Christians having a problem when other celebrations/holidays are mentioned, like it diminishes Xmas.

2-Christians having a problem when we talk about this time when the celebrations takes place as "the holidays"... it's similar to the first.

3-Christians having a problem with non christians celebrating something they call Xmas, but outside any concepts of faith.

(to be continued)

[PuraguCryostato]

@HarfangX 1. Ok this Christian here (me) has no problem.

2. It's ok for you to talk about the Holidays when you don't follow them specifically, but your stance ultimately forces Christians to call Christmas a generic "holidays" in all circumstances.

3. Again I mentioned Japan. Most celebrations of Xmas are commercialised. Some people have issue with that because the true meaning is about love and it distracts other Christians from it, and makes Christians look like proponents of commercialism.

[HarfangX]

@PuraguCryostato

I don't see a point to any of those...

People celebrate something they call xmas... for many it has no religious implications... getting mad at them or trying to deny them the celebration is, for one not possible, and certainly will not make them Christian.

This video sounded like a longing for a time gone by when people did not have a right to self-determination... forget freedom of choice and embrasse love...

What is love? Doing what you're told.

... apparently.

[PuraguCryostato]

@HarfangX It's a longing for a time when holidays were respected for what they were, at least in theory. When I hear of Diwali I don't want to light candles either but I do recognise the right of the Hindus to keep that holiday as their own and of their own meaning. Love is not about doing what you're told.

[PuraguCryostato]

@HarfangX Please note that the Christian who wants to convert you loves you more than one who doesn't care about you, although he may seem a nuisance to you. So when the Father wants the meaning of Christmas to be preserved, the meaning is beautiful and more deep and better than any commercialized or Happy Hippy meaning others may have attached to it. Many if not most Christians actually couldn't care less if others know about Christ or not, they should be to your liking.

[PuraguCryostato]

@HarfangX I think it's ok people not to celebrate the religious holiday they don't recognise. It's fine and in fact correct. Except please don't change the holiday itself. If you don't celebrate XMAS (Eid, Diwali etc),it's just another day, maybe even a free from work day but don't force Christians (Muslims, Hindus etc)to follow a watered down meaningless day and have them be embarrassed to celebrate their thing publicly because that may appear intolerant of others' feelings. We're all mature.

[HarfangX]

It's like December 25th is not enough for christians; There needs to be a ... censorship?... of any rivaling non christian celebrations.

When I was growing up it was more like an attempt to reclaim or reintroduce the christian element in xmas... nowadays... christians are offended at christmas trees being called "holiday trees" like that was christian to begin with.

There's nothing new about it. This compettition for the "longest night" celebration goes all the way back to the roman era.

[PuraguCryostato]

@HarfangX There is nothing wrong with appropriating pagan celebrations for Christians. The idea here is however that the definitive CHRISTmas holiday celebrating the BIRTH of CHRIST the SON of GOD and MESSIAH is being watered down in the public sphere on the pretext that it may offend some people (I guess those people must be bigots to be offended) but in reality it is an attempt by people who dislike Christianity for political reasons to penalise Christians.

[PuraguCryostato]

@HarfangX From my experience as a foreigner living in South Africa. We have many religions here. We have malls depicting Jewish, Muslim, Hindu and Christian Holidays. There is Diwali, Eid, Yom Kippur and Christmas/Easter. No-body is offended. No-one. No religious Muslim or Jew or anyone else. There are even Communists who are not offended. There are animists who are not offended. People who believe in witchdoctors. No-one cares. It seems that authorities in America are creating problems.

[PuraguCryostato]

@HarfangX This implies that the authorities in your country think Hindus, Muslims, Jews and others to be bigots that they will be offended by Xmas trees in malls or HAPPY CHRISTMAS signs in banks. Unless these people are different to the ones living here (and we have lots of Mosques and Synagogues in Cape Town) I think the problem created is one of the left. They make these GOOD people look like bigots. The left, once it undermines Christianity enough will turn to Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism etc.

[PuraguCryostato]

@HarfangX Singapore is another tolerant place. You have Catholic Churches next to Protestant Churches next to Buddist temples, next to Mosques, next to Hindu temples next to Synagogues. No-one is offended. In other places like Japan they love Xmas although most people aren't even Christian.

[HarfangX]

@PuraguCryostato Forgot to make it a reply :(

[malcolmcean]

The message of 'do what you wanaka' projects and reflects an infinitely more expansive, complex, and wondrous universe than that put forward from within the narrow confines of the constraining (behavioural) discourses of Christianity. It can be tweaked (two concepts of liberty) to ensure self-interest never runs free with impunity. As a concept it owes its existence to the idea that we all (in our glorious diversity) should never be subject to the power narratives of sectarian ideologies.

[wordonfirevideo]

@malcolmcean Friend, would you accept that logic in regard to anything you consider important? Swing a golf club: just do it any way you want. Engage in international diplomacy: just follow your instincts. Learn to play the violin: don't let anyone tell you how to do it. Come on. Do whatever you wannaka is a formula for mediocrity and self-absorption.

[malcolmcean]

@wordonfirevideo Your golf analogy? Orthodox conformity = no Jim Fuyrik. Your Violin analogy? No musical innovation (think 1970s progressive rock forever) = no Sex Pistols, no Joy Division, indeed no demotic musicality and liberation. I am not flatly rejecting your world view. I am questioning it. I believe that liberal intellectualism needs to accept and interact with the conservative structuralism - not destroy it. The dialogue between the two often produces positive outcomes.

[wordonfirevideo]

@malcolmcean We're probably pretty close to agreement here. Sure Furyk has a distinctive swing, but he's hardly swinging "anyway he wannakas." At the point of impact, his swing is actually quite classic. And the Sex Pistols are playing according to very definite structures, which is precisely why they can be imitated. I have no quarrel whatsoever with creativity, but creativity is not equivalent to formless self-expression.

[malcolmcean]

@wordonfirevideo I am afraid that I cannot agree with your view that Furyk is interacting with the golfing canon (he is off centre, has a poor stance, and follows through). It works though. I suppose you are right, though, that we are close to agreement. Structure is needed to give definition to freedom. Innovation, whether positive or negative (often determined by one's own vested interest) is a fact of life (omnia mutantur). Our responses to it are fascinating (and illuminating).

[BMac279]

Support all holidays.

[WayOfTheMaster454]

Gastapo And Politburo

[aleams22]

I see nothing wrong with supporting all holidays. Many forget that Christmas is not the only holiday in December... In fact, December was originally the Feast of Saturn. The pagans referred to it as Saturnalias. It would be centuries later until that feast had been taken over through the Holy Roman Empire of Constantine. My point is that this ad isn't taking over Christmas, it's celebrating all of them... including Christmas. We don't need the Bible to see that this is completely fair.

[manalive24]

The Gap advertises that we should "86 the rules." It must be a great comfort to The Gap's employees that they no longer need to worry about following corporate policies or listen to their manager's directions while on the job. No doubt there was a general memo to that effect sent out before the commercial aired. Surely an organization that preached relativism would also practice it.

[chuckstar666]

This is why people hate thieism so much, because, it is by nature arrogant in its certainty that it holds the one and only truth. Your pope has openly declared himself as an opposer of secularism, but what you must understand is that most people see through the hypocrisy and corruption of your church and they dont want to be part of it. Its not self indulgence, its self determination. Your church cares far less about love and the word of jesus than it does about backward dogma and control.

[Chandu83]

Of course you don't like this ad. If there is no Christmas, you won't have a job. hahaha! You are not as "good" as you claim to be. Remember the time when Christianity ruled the earth? It was called the Dark Ages. Oh yeah...I trust you be very objective.

But then again, it IS better than islam. So I'd rather have a person like you than some jihad loving muslim.

[janghanee]

Thank you Fr. Barron. Your YouTube channel has now become one of my favorites. I love your commentaries on issues and topics that we face in everyday life. Keep up the good work! I'm praying for you.

[leighgridley]

Why should The Gap favor Christianity over the other religions?!? Father Barron says "Happy clappy tolerance and freedom" like it's a bad thing. What would Jesus do, Father? I think he'd tell you to get over it. I think he'd tell you it doesn't matter what you believe - no faith or lack thereof should get precedence - just celebrate in peace and harmony. I'm serious - I think it's Jesus and I versus you on this one. And I'm atheist!

[wordonfirevideo]

@leighgridley I presume you're joking. Friend, take a look at any two pages of any of the Gospels and tell me honestly that Jesus would say, "it doesn't matter what you believe!" To give just one example out of about five hundred, when asked what is necessary for salvation, Jesus said, "believe in the one that he sent."

[leighgridley]

@wordonfirevideo Looks like we see Jesus differently. I see him like Ghandi, who WOULD ABSOLUTELY say it doesn't matter what version of the God details you believe in, or none at all, as long as you treat others as you would have them treat you. Surely Jesus put 'peace, love and harmony' ahead of 'Christianity only at all costs'? I sure hope so. I find it amazing that atheists believe in the former, while you believe in the latter - yet you feel organized religion has the moral high ground. :(

[wordonfirevideo]

@leighgridley Friend, just look at any of the Gospels and you'll see that your New Age Jesus is just a fantasy. Jesus was a Jew who believed in the God of Israel, the God of the prophets and the patriarchs. And he built a church on the rock of Peter's faith, promising that the gates of Hell would not prevail against it. And if atheists know anything about love of neighbor and love of enemies, they learned it from the Christian church which preserved the memory of Jesus!

[leighgridley]

@wordonfirevideo Both New Age and Old Age interpretations of Jesus may well be fantasy, I agree. If Jesus was as conservative as you think he was, that makes me less interested in following him. With regard your second statement I partially agree. I went to Catholic school and I'm glad I did. The central morals and values of Christianity are fine with me, it is their confident claims to supernatural details that I have since shed.

[angersjay]

@leighgridley

i think u might have just bought the ad.

[clarkbailey1973]

@wordonfirevideo The New Age Jesus is Gnosticsm repackaged...

[Jugglable]

@wordonfirevideo @wordonfirevideo "Friend, take a look at any two pages of any of the Gospels and tell me honestly that Jesus would say, "it doesn't matter what you believe!""

Why does it matter, though? Paul said love was the greatest of all things. Isn't the most important thing how much you are loving instead of how much dogma you accept and believe? Why does it matter what we believe as long as we're loving?

[oracleofaltoona]

I do agree that people do subscribe to that amorphous creed of "do your own thing" to their detriment. I totally agree with the identification of the rival ideology of consumerism. It is a dangerous and soulless ideology. Kudos to the Father for calling this BS out. If you remove the souls from people, you can buy and sell them anything -- including "themselves" back to them!

[archgin742000]

Father, I hope that this don't sound annoying to you but in the case of Pat Robertson claiming that the earthquake in Haiti a few weeks back was caused by its leaders who made a pact to the devil in order to gain independence from the French, do you think that Pat is making a public argument for Christianity. We know we are in an age where religion became a private matter but to be honest, I find his attitude rather disturbing. Please enlighten us on that. God bless you father.

[wordonfirevideo]

@archgin742000 Sure, he's making a public argument. The problem is that it's a stupid argument! The solution is not to silence him but to fight with him. Mount a better argument.

[archgin742000]

Thank you Father. Its really annoying to see such characters. Maybe its our fault too for not correcting their mistakes and allowing them to continue their actions. Its true that in our age, we Christians seem to have a passive attitude on our faith while allowing people like Pat to spread their errors and makes us all look bad in the end. But I thank you for making such videos here. At least we find comfort and courage from you. God bless you father.

[luv2rideWV]

I have listened to a few of your videos and appreciate the content. It is great to hear one discuss topics in a more scholarly fashion. Nice job.

[jamesharrel]

All this chatter over a commercial...the single, most insignificant unit of culture; and a commercial concerning fashion, the most brief of all influences. This Barron will do anything to draw attention to himself.

P.S.: As usual, the religious folks think they were there first when in fact they were there last. Even if there was a Jesus at all, the Yule, Chanukkah, Solstice, etc. seasons existed long before. Christ was ADDED to the season, not vice versa, yet they want it to be THEIRS.

[mixarm]

Oh, come on. Get over you bigotry of religion.

[jamesharrel]

When you get over your bigotry of non-religion. And I'm not a bigot: I'm judging you all on what you actually do and say; that's not bigotry.

[wordonfirevideo]

And I suppose George Carlin, Christopher Hitchens, Richard Dawkins, and Bill Maher are models of self-effacing humility! Atheists can carry on indefinitely in the public forum, but if a religious person rises to defend the faith, he's "drawing attention to himself."

[missdexterity]

thanks for the commentary, fr. barron!

[ProdigalSonship]

It is an objective reality that many governments of the Left and the Right of the last century really wanted to get rid of all vestiges of religion in general and very often the result of this policy was the murder of millions upon millions of people in order to secure atheistic socialism or capitalistic fascism. What should the Church's opinion have been in that light? It was looked on as not having a right to any opinion at all and often the policy was one of the destruction of all religion.

[ProdigalSonship]

powereddrive...All I am saying here is there is a cause and effect of each decision made. To anyone who wishes to investigate all sides of the issue, it is all too apparent that often the effect of the Church's decisions in Spain was the wholesale slaughter of hundreds of the Church clergy by the communists as well as,at times, by the fascists. This is not as easy an issue to come to glib conclusion as many seek to arrive at. The Church as a whole suffered greatly in Spain for varied reasons.

[ProdigalSonship]

One has just to see what happened to the Church in Poland alone during WWII to have a better understanding as to the extraordinary looses incurred by the Church in those times. When Pope John Paul II was a young man, he had to go underground to attend seminary courses towards being a priest. There were hundreds of clergy summarily murdered during the war, this is an objective truth of which not many people are aware. We always hear of clerical abuses, but rarely of the murder of clerics. Why?

[powereddrive]

the murder of Priests receives less attention than clerical abuses for a simple reason.

When NKVD Green Berets and Einsatzgruppen Commandos commit terrible acts nobody expects anything else but when someone of the Church does, or supports, heinous acts, people notice that something is out of order. And so the failings of the Church become more noteworthy.

The Church is simply held by most of the world to a higher moral standard than Stalinist Russia

[powereddrive]

And just to be clear, are you saying that you believe Spain was better off under the fascists than it would have been under the Anarcho-Syndicalist inspired workers' movements?

[ProdigalSonship]

Perhaps it would be a good idea to seek out the Church's perspective on matters which are a concern to you. The Church's side of the issues along with those of others may afford you a "balanced" outlook which you may enjoy.

As to the Pope and Mussolini, yes, that was a very big thing to happen, considering the huge amount of land which had already been taken away from the Church. It was "nice" of "Il Duce" to be so "magnanimous". These matters are not so easy to understand at a cursory look.

[ProdigalSonship]

powerdrive....

Thank you for your comment. You will find that very few of the hierarchy will have a quarrel with you as to any legitimate claims which can be made against the Church thru out all of its history. One cannot deny objective truth unless one wants to look foolish or end up a crazy person.

You seem to think that members of the Church should be incapable of doing stupid or immoral things. And yes, one does tend to chose a lesser evil over a bigger one when given only two choices.

[ProdigalSonship]

cont...

One needs to recognize that when one is presented with ONLY the choice of two evils, often the "reasonable" choice is to pick the lesser of two evils.

As regards to how the RCC was affected by the Spanish Civil War...you would do well to investigate just how many hundreds of bishops, priests, nuns, brothers and laity were murdered in those years. Sadly, much of what comes from the Pope and the united magisterium of the Church, has not been heeded by liberal or conservative politicians.

[powereddrive]

IMy quarrel is not with Catholics in general, but with Church leaders who have repeatedly failed morally, spiritually, etc., whenever a crises develops. It was the leaders, not the faithful, who abandoned O'Connell, it was the Catholic leader of Vienna who rang the church bell when the Anschluss was made public, it was the archbishop who assumed leadership of the fascist Albanian state, it was the pope who received Mussolini and praised him for making the Vatican its own country

[powereddrive]

And today, it is the Church who is pushing for the complete overturn of Roe vs. Wade, which would mean a holocaust of women in this country, and today it is the Church who is actively contributing to the misery of Africa by proclaiming that condoms do not prevent the spread of HIV/AIDS.

The burning of Churches in Spain was terrible, but by the lesser of 2 evils, are you implying that Franco was the lesser of 2 evils?

And happy New Year to you Too! And to all my Catholic sisters and comrades!

[ProdigalSonship]

powereddrive.....Thank you for your comments and Happy New Year to you and yours. You seem to think that the RCC hierarchy has a sort of "real" control over the behavior of catholics in general. Let me assure you, if there is one thing which is all too apparent, it is that humans have free will to sin against each other and God. The bishops, priests and Popes have precious little control over the actions of the members or of people in general. All they can do is "point" the way.

cont.....

[ProdigalSonship]

cont....

Many of the positions in Rerum Novarum were supplemented by later encyclicals, in particular Pius XI's Quadragesimo Anno (1931), John XXIII's Mater et Magistra (1961), and John Paul II's Centesimus Annus (1991).

Rerum Novarum has been interpreted as a primer of the Roman Catholic response to the exploitation of workers.

The encyclical also contains a proposal for a living wage, though not called by that name in the text itself. Just read the encyclicals to see the Church's opinions.

[powereddrive]

I confess I am not a scholar of Vatican literature, but I do know something of history, and though I am sure the Church may have stated in the past, and does to this day say many good things, it is the Church's actions, what it actually does, that interests me.

Did the Church condemn the terrorist Ronald Regan for the murder of Bishop Romero and other catholic leaders in countries such as Guatemala and El Salvador?

[powereddrive]

During the civil war in Spain did the Church align itself with the CNT and FAI, the workers' movements which were destroyed internally by the Bolshevists and the Capitalists while simultaneously being slaughtered on the front lines by fascist infantry and Nazi planes?

And where was the Catholic leadership during the horror that occurred recently in Croatia?

Ask the Irish of how the Catholic Church betrayed the leaders of its independence movement, not to mention the greater evil of recent.

[HammerofHeretics]

You are mistaking local religious officials with the "Catholic Church". The Church is made up of human beings just like any other organization on earth and they don't always make the right decisions. However, even with the human factor figured in, I put up the Catholic Church against any other entity on earth with respect for its record on defending human rights, and that includes Amnesty International.

[powereddrive]

The list continues, but my point is: Words are fine, but substantive action is better.

[HammerofHeretics]

The Church most certainly condemned the murder of Archbishop Romero, but Romero was killed by El Salvadoran, right wingers, not Ronald Reagan.

[ProdigalSonship]

Rerum Novarum discussed the relationships and mutual duties between labour and obtaining capital, as well as government and its citizens. Of primary concern was the need for some amelioration for "the misery and wretchedness pressing so unjustly on the majority of the working class". It supported the rights of labor to form unions, rejected communism and unrestricted capitalism, whilst affirming the right to private property.

cont.....

[ProdigalSonship]

powereddrive....The Church has been fighting at least since 1891 against some of the very things you talk about. It may be a very good idea for you to study the documents. For instance....search Wikipedia for "Rerum Novarum" (Translation: Of New Things) is an encyclical issued by Pope Leo XIII on May 15, 1891. It was an open letter, passed to all Catholic bishops, that addressed the condition of the working classes. The encyclical is entitled: "Rights and Duties of Capital and Labour".

[powereddrive]

There is no war on Christmas,

there is no ideology behind the commercial,

Gap only has one goal and one desire, the accumulation of capital, and the expansion of its enterprise to new markets.

Father Barron does not understand that there is no war or contention when one side is in total control.

The Church has been breaking for centuries and will continue to break.

[powereddrive]

Unless the Church brings itself into the modern age with regards to its stance on issues like abortion, the reality and terror of the international economy, and the overwhelming threat presented by the ruling socioeconomic classes its final demise will be inevitable.

The Church no longer crowns kings or advises the builders of empire, it must now choose whether it will embrace the modern age or not, and if it does, on whose side will it stand

[donttrustthebible]

Wasnt Christams a pagan festival to begin with? U shouldnt argue that Christ shouldnt be elimnated when he wasnt a part of it to begin with

[ProdigalSonship]

I suggest we all scroll all the way down to the very first page of the comment section to read what MrElyBlack had to say about the "cultural libertinism" of the Left versus the "commercial capitalism" of the Right and the "connection" they have with each other which neither group is commonly willing to admit. I think his post is the best one of all. It's clear, concise, apt and wise. Thank you MrElyBlack. Happy New Year.

[ProdigalSonship]

@Telemacus800.....Yes, very much so.

If the Incarnation of Jesus is meant to be understood solely in regards to the Annunciation and the Nativity, and not Christ's "full share" in our humanity, and subsequent Resurrection, then it stops too short of the entire revelation of "God in Christ".

Thank you for the clarification.

[ProdigalSonship]

The difference between the Miracle of the Incarnation of Jesus at the Annunciation and the birth of Jesus at the Nativity, is a very important one and we do tend to forget this distinction. I have no problem with Fr. Barron "borrowing from" the Annunciation here to look closer at the Nativity. The argument is how our culture perceives the "concept" of Christmas. Culturally speaking, the "fact" that Jesus was born is much less "controversial" than the "belief" that he was Divinely conceived.

[eccehomo8]

No jkatpc, phil is correct. The Feast of the Annunciation is also (Festum Incarnationis) the Feast of the Incarnation not the Feast of the Nativity of the Lord as many "liberal" Catholics claim. Look it up. It's easily verified. (newadvent/Catholic encyclopedia) (Also explains the dating of Christmas...not pagan)

[phil8888]

I totally agree with you Father. Just one thing, Christmas is not the celebration of the feast of the incarnation, that happens on March 25, but this is the birth of Christ.

[jkatpc]

25 March is the Annunciation. The incarnation was when God became man, which we celebrate at Christmas. Of course, from my perspective (being pro-life), that actually happened at the Annunciation.

[TELEMACUS800]

@phil8888 The Incarnation is the total event of the revelation of God in Christ, conception, birth, progression from infancy, to childhood and to adulthood, and finally, passion, death and resurrection. Refering to Christmas as the Feast of the Incarnation highlights truth of this revelation.

[spector1991]

I REALLY want to see a debate with Fr. Barron and Bill Maher. that would be worth watching.

[Childinfaith]

Maher is just a comedian. Why people take him as some sort of serious anti-religious prophet is beyond me. Fr. Barron is an "actual" intellectual.

[spector1991]

Well for one thing. In his movie "Religulous" he mocks Christians and Jews which I take very seriously because I love God and take him as a sacred being. When somebody( comedian or not) mocks my lord yes i get offended. and yes I want Father Barron to put Maher in his place. because he actually has somebody that intelligence to take up for God.

[LeoRJH]

Librals.....

[ProdigalSonship]

It is difficult to see how Christianity, even as a "mere philosophy" can have assigned to it the "same value" comparatively speaking as other philosophies.

While it is true that it shares with other philosophies many fundamental concepts, what sets Christianity apart is its claim that God actually humbled himself to become one of us and shared with us our humanity, so that we may have a share in his divinity. How does one respond to God becoming a man for mankind to finally "know" God in Jesus?

[ProdigalSonship]

In the interest of avoiding any kind of "confrontation", Pop culture in general seeks to put all things at the same level of "value and comparison". By doing this, one is then just left to arbitrarily "buy into" a philosophy which has,by the dictum of Pop culture, the very same "value" as the next person's philosophy. By the standards of Pop culture, all things become "relative" and by virtue of this "fact", people can be become "comparatively and relatively" religious!

How absurd is this??

[dbaseII]

FYI, our son did a study on ads in the early 1980's - I had read a book called "SUBLIMINAL SEDUCTION" by Daniel Keyes which presented a pretty good case for the ads perpetuating some pretty rank stuff including oral s/ex etc. Son was curious if that was true. He recorded several TV ads, some of them for stuff like Orange Juice and playing them in slow-mo he was shocked at the subliminal messages - he showed me in horror, the ads he'd collected. This young man now has his PhD in education.

[ProdigalSonship]

Our senses are so dulled that we cannot at first recognize what the essential message of "pop culture" is. We are so distracted with the bells and whistles of our culture that we cannot "see" what lies behind much of its philosophy. Now and then we are woken up out of our stupor by a dramatic fluctuation in the economy or some other crisis and this leads us to examine all things with better discernment. One does hate to have one's head pulled out of the sand to take an honest look at things.

[tango2romeo]

I guess I completely misunderstood the commercial. I just took it as being positive and cheerful and nothing further than that.

It's a commercial; it's not meant to be taken as a sermon.

Then again, I don't shop for Christmas anyway, so ads have to go a long way to have much impact on my spending habits at all. I've been resisting the Christmas shopping rush since 1986 and I like it that way.

[wordonfirevideo]

But the world of commerce gives sermons all the time.

[dbaseII]

That's how they WANT you to take it and enjoy the dancing (which is excellent) but Fr is right - they are pushing an ideology and it's slipping right by folks who think it's all, just in "fun". "In fun" is one of the best ways of getting a message through to someone because their defenses are down. Many ads push ideologies which are against what Christianity teaches - gluttony in se/x, food or whatever. That's why I have for years, recorded programs and fast forwarded through the ads.

[mjmanning123]

Like anyone shops at the GAP.

[john2000young]

That GAP ad looked foolish!!!

[marcelagae]

Come now inkfool. Let us not degrade a good discussion with incivility. You are missing the point entirely that wether or not Jesus was actually born on the 25'th has no impact on the significance of the holiday. It seems to me a perfect time to celebrate the coming of Christ. The coming of the winter solstice sun to light the world is great symbolism for the Son of God coming to light the world. The actual date of the birth if Jesus is not really relevant.

[xtrashed]

That's not been proven. Christ's birthday is celebrated on December the 25th, whether he was born on that exact day is not important! He was born and Christians around the World celebrate it! You can't erode Christ from Christ-Mass!

[inkfool1]

it is important to thge argument presented just except that dec. 25 is bigger than christ

[Jugglable]

The ad is trying so hard to be hip that I get second hand embarrassment from watching it.

That said, Merry Christmas!

[jasonhenle]

Let's be honest, most Christians only focus on their "True meaning of Christmas" during a Christmas Eve service. It's high time the Christians own up to the fact that Christmas is a secular holiday. The holiday pre-dates Christianity anyway, so just admit it that it's a fun holiday to share with your friends and family..... and get presents of course.

[marcelagae]

The message of this commercial mirrors the dominant culture. That is, just do what feels right. Or do what you want. This message would be fine if we were all naturally born saints with no bad inclinations. Sadly our inclinations are frequently destructive to ourselves and others. When I find a lost wallet, what I wannika do is take the money. Upon viewing an attractive woman, what feels right is to attempt to seduce her. However, being good requires us to do exacly we dont "wannika" do.

[jasonhenle]

I disagree, I think humans are generally good. Generally people are ethical because it provides us with advantages. I'm nice to you so you'll be nice to me. I don't harm my neighbor so I don't endanger my own safety. I don't think that the commercial is making the claim that theft, rape and murder are okay as long as you wannika do it. Religion enjoys monopolizing the winter holiday season as well as morales. Religion is a clumsy way to accomplish morales, so just do what you wannika do.

[marcelagae]

I think even the most casual reading of history would cause one to question your assertion that humans are generally good. As to your taking offence at religions monopolizing their respective winter holidays, I really cant see why. It is their holiday after all. Even the pagan winter solstice holiday was religious. What I dont understand is why atheist so passionately crusade against something that means nothing to them. This has always struck me as irrational.

[gmbrannan]

I would like to add that in this culture of trying to remove Christ from Christmas and using "Happy Holidays" instead that what I do when given the latter farewell is to respond with a sincere and heartfelt "Merry Christmas". Nine times out of ten, I have had the other party respond in kind. It's not preachy, overbearing, divisive, or offensive, but I think it gets my point across, even if it is but a tiny seed. My prayer is that God will make that seed grow!

[jasonhenle]

The phrase "Merry Christmas" is generally not reserved only for religious, it will take quite a politically correct boob to take offense. However, as a non-believer, wishing someone a "Merry Christmas" is not the most persuasive conversion tool. I say Merry Christmas too.

[koobyy]

Great video, once again. I really appreciate your insights. Merry Christmas from Canada!

[Evidentz07]

Great video Father. Personally, I didn't find the ad offensive. A part of me sees it from a Christian perspective, and you're correct in stating that it is a rival ideology: it's not what Christmas is about. The commercial is consumerism masked behind flashy dances. But the 'freedom' and 'do what you want' attitude didn't come off as self indulgence to me. When I heard it, I thought they implicated that we should celebrate what we want. We have to respect others' beliefs as well as our own.

[jasonhenle]

Hear hear!

[stinkcat1492]

Capitalism has given us a lot of choices and that is a good thing, but our culture somehow wants to imply that whatever choice we make, it doesn;t matter and is of no consequence. Now of course, from the Christian perspective, our choices do matter. If there is a truth, then our choices need to be ordered to that truth.

[Nemesis000000]

I must say what bothers me most about most religions is the anti-freedom attitude. Do you not find it ironic that you have freedom of religion, and use that freedom to preach obedience and conformity?

[mawst]

No Law Without Order, No Freedom Without Law.

[Nemesis000000]

@ mawst

Absolutely, but law should only pertain to things that affect others, not just yourself.

[wordonfirevideo]

I'm not anti-freedom at all. I just want to make sure that freedom is placed in correlation to the truth. "Do whatever you want" is the philosophy of an unschooled adolescent and is a recipe for disaster.

[Nemesis000000]

The attitude portrayed in the ad and in that philosophy in general only applies to living your own life how you see fit, it doesnt apply to breaking laws (except maybe stupid ones) or doing anything that would affect someone else negatively. The only disaster that can come from it is in the personal life of the individual, and that is their business and their choice.

[DubC617]

I think you're too hung up on the word "law". You may be pitcuring "law" and thinking of specific acts breaking the laws of our country. Fr. Barron is suggesting is what John Paul II also pushed in the capitalistic/market economy: Freedom only in truth. Meaning, I'm not "free" because I can do whatever I want to do. The "freedom" most people speak about is really called "license" in the literal sense (you can look it up). I'm "free" because I live within the confines of that freedom.

[DubC617]

Further, "living within the confines of freedom", is sort of like a social contract. I don't take your food whenever I'm hungry just because I'm hungry. That's something adolescents do, and they have to be conformed to the proper act of waiting to get their own food.

[Nemesis000000]

Taking my food whenever your hungry is infringing on my rights. No one has a right to restrict or interfere with anyone elses rights. That includes stealing, harassment, murder etc...

Beyond that, there should be no law or any effort of any kind to make others live a certain way.

[DubC617]

@Nemesis000000 I think we're venturing away from the original point. The point is that the video is promoting a "do whatever you wannaka" attitude. This is saying, "Ignore the origins and reasons for Christmas and Hannuka, take God out and follow the commercial holiday attitude". It doesn't matter who is Christian, or Jewish, or what they do personally, it's the general attitude projected to the general public which brackets God, but also reacts negatively when God is spoken about publicly.

[sulkow82]

Hi Father Baron. This is a 5/5 vid.

I think you would agree with me. This add is simply glorifying the hedonistic side of modernism. Freedom is not the ability to do what we want, but rather the ability to do what is right and just.

In another side of this video. I'm Catholic. I, however, was offended by the Gap video saying "do what you wannika" for another reason. To me it seemed like a bit of "mud in the eye" against the Jewish holiday.

All around, the Gap video is in VERY POOR taste.

[jasonhenle]

I don't think so, they gave a "Go Hanukkah" shout-out in their holiday chant. In fact the Jews should see the "wannika" line as an extra shout-out for their day. (Assuming that you're a Christian) I bet you're bummed that Christmas didn't get the fun play on words line.

[HammerofHeretics]

Any serious Jew would also be insulted by the commercial.  Hanukkah marks the rededication of the Temple in Jerusalem after it had been desecrated by the forces of the King of Syria. The holiday is also is tied to the martyrdom of a mother and her seven sons (the Maccabees). It certainly is not a "do whatever you wannaka" kind of holiday. It's about being true to God no matter what the cost.

[jasonhenle]

Well any really hardcore religious person would probably be offended if their traditions are not entirely maintained. But to be fair I don't think those people are in the majority. And I definitely don't think marketing teams need to respect all the possible extremist religious folks.

[HammerofHeretics]

Well it's pretty clear they aren't marketing to people who take Christmas or Hanukkah seriously, so why don't they just stick to pandering to the pagan/Gaia worshippers rather than taking a swipe at believing Jews and Christians. It's not like they have anything to gain from that as far as I can see.

[DiscipleOfChrist96]

@HammerofHeretics: I think that, far more than a mere swipe at Christmas, which would be bad enough, they're aiming, as Fr. Barron mentioned, at the notion of objective truth and morality, saying, do whatever you want to, 86 the rules. While the Gap doesn't stand to gain from that, those who promote that kind of thinking are aiming this promotion at those who would be shopping at the Gap and watching the ad. I'd like to know who the backers are, who wrote it. Yep, I would.

[DiscipleOfChrist96]

@jasonhenle, so let me understand this: If I am religious and a faithful practitioner of my faith and take it seriously, I am, therefore and necessarily, an extremist? And it would be preferred, I take it, that I not be faithful and not take it seriously? But then I would be called a hypocrite, right? So you see only extremists or hypocrites, no room for those who are simply faithful?

[sulkow82]

"bummed that Christmas didn't get the fun play on words line"

Actually, the exact opposite. I wouldn't want one of our most blessed holy days demeaned by that. So, I celebrate the fact that they couldn't do a "fun play on words."

[nta982]

sounds more like ' don't think just buy everything... oh and give the gift of GAP for all occassions...'

[Henchberg]

Ye they have a wierd take on the holidays, it's like they thought they were writing for a Spring Break ad campaign.

[TheEcumenator]

merry christmas today is such a generic thing.

As if everyone does celebrate it.

Having a holiday on Christmas day is one thing, but merry christmas to anyone would be like a muslim telling happy ramadan to a christian.

We just don't celebrate it.

So for those who truly celebrate it, Merry Christmas!

[wordonfirevideo]

Absolutely right. Classical Christianity says, "a plague on both your houses."

[jasonhenle]

Go GAP for shaking things up!

[wordonfirevideo]

Oh come on! It's the consumerist ideology behind that ad that needs to be shaken up.

[marcelagae]

Shake things up? This commercial did anything but shake things up. It mirrored exactly the dominant message in our mass media, educational system, and popular entertainment. It adhered rigidly to a stifling (and nauseating) political correctness. If GAP really wanted to shake things up, it would put out a commercial advocating Christian love. Could you imagine the popular outrage THAT would generate?

[jasonhenle]

There's nothing wrong with consumerism. Why shouldn't we get what we want and do what we wanna (or wannika) do? The video talks about how great poverty makes Jesus, I disagree. Overcoming struggle is a virtue, but simply going without is missing out.

A Christian love ad would be comparable to advocating team spirit for your favorite sports team, it's only works if your on the right team. I know about the Christian love, it's too bad cause you need to be a Christian to get the Christian love.

[marcelagae]

I mean no offence, but when you say that you have to be a Christian get the Christian love, it makes me question your claim that you know about the Christian love. I notice that Mother Teresa didnt reserve Christian love for Christians only.

Im not particularly against consumerism either, if by consumerism you mean capitalism. But lets not give consumerism value that it does not have. It will not make us happy, teach us right from wrong, or impart us with any other virtue.

[Entropy3ko]

I did not find the Gap comercial offensive religiously, but I found it extremely pretentious... reminds me of these extremely lame teenage musicals going around these days.

A blessed Christmas Fr. Barron!

[vint7107]

5/5! Merry Christmas, Fr. Barron!

[shedininja001]

God is God of all, not God of the "Gap" ! Its a play on words!!!