Dr. Joel Kovel - "Zionism and its Discontents" 1/5

[israelapartheid]

Bashar Assad's tanks and infantry made their first assaults Sunday, April 24 on Jableh on the Mediterranean and Daraa in the south, after a 48-hour bloodbath by his security forces claiming up to 350 lives failed to break the five-week countrywide uprising against his rule. In Jableh, protesters are barricaded in the Abu Bakr Siddiq Mosque, a Sufi center.reports: The Syrian ruler mobilized the army for a final attempt to smash the revolt against his regime after arresting thousands in Damascus.

[rachelgolem]

Laughing when Syrians kill each other is NOT Anti-Semitism.

[rachelgolem]

Israel is just like South Africa, except we don't have an 18% HIV infection rate. 

[DrBaruchdeSpinoza]

@USAFalling Pin Head you are not to intelligent are you. . . .You have no idea what Zionism is. . .

[petersz98]

The Zionist Third Reich must be destroyed!

[flattilre]

Did you know that you spelled "diarrhea" correctly?

[mzkaddah]

no probabely ge spelled your mama's camel toe correctly..

[fairalways]

Yes, I do suffer from written diarrhea. I've often said so about myself. So? name-calling says so much more about yourself than another person ever could.

And your rallying cry is obviously deeply felt. Fine. There are deep feelings to go around, which obscure practicality.

[kingstuks]

John 8:44

[billygoldenjr]

We're all human you fuck, thats why I can fuck your mom and a kid will pop out. racist jew hating fuck don't listen to everything daddy told you

[fairalways]

Your lack of capital is what feeds your rage, which is killing you. You fearfully reveal little of yourself, and strengthen your feelings of specialness by imagining the world is being brainwashed, but you are immune because of your resolve. Quite insane.

PS have you no shame with your rageful name-calling? Is this uncivility OK in your family?

[fairalways]

You sound like you are on the verge of a psychotic break. You have embarrassed yourself enough. FYI: Christianity was born during a time of great desperation when people were looking for something or someone to save them. Many declared themselves to be savior, and Jesus won the lottery.

[fairalways]

You're correct in that natural selection isn't the only way of change. It sometimes arises spontaneously. It is still evolution. Of course politics is part of evolution. It is how we animals sort things out socially. Part of the ultimate success or failure of us as a specie. You aren't grasping Evolution at all. Evolution is a process; the study of evolution doesn't presuppose any advantage of Capitalism or Communism.

[fairalways]

There is no such thing as "against evolution". Any change is evolution. Of course "survival of the fittest" can lead to total destruction. What was "fit" has no variation and dies, is no longer "fit".

[fairalways]

I should add that when a specie loses variation it makes itself more susceptible to competition from fewer things, thus making it possibly an easier candidate for elimination. Get it? It's fairly logical. No need to even read Darwin.

[dan1940210768]

...LOUD & CLEAR!!!

[fairalways]

I posted this a while ago. I realize I should have typed "competition from more things". I get many inferences to choose from from your response, but I thought what I meant should have been clear.

[fairalways]

I addressed your misperception of me and Jewish experience. Rage is the choice you made when faced with intelligent critique. You felt backed into a corner instead of introspecting appropriately. But you have difficulty with introspection and empathy, so you chose your easy path, rage. You've probably made this choice your whole life, and it is now second nature. But it is destructive. You can help your self. Yes, "Go fuck yourself" is "the normal reaction" for you, but not healthy people.

[fairalways]

You may state your fantasies, but they are of no practical use in addressing the middle east or your bigotry. You may quote whom you like, but their power or significance or usefulness seems lost on a bigot like you, who can't get past his own rage long enough to make use of wisdom. The world would be a better place with people who didn't say "fuck you!" so much. We can start with that. Perfect world... such desperate grandiosity. Try to perfect yourself.

[fairalways]

The only "greatest on earth" here seems to be you, in your head. How selfish, how small, how frustratingly powerless. The problem is yours, not mine, and not the rest of the world's.

[fairalways]

I have told you that "greatest on earth" is not my ideology. You insist on believing your angry fantasy selfishly. Your version of Communism is a fantasy by definition. If it only exists in your head it is fantasy. It does not exist anywhere on earth, as you have acknowledged. You are having problems with your logic again.

[fairalways]

Every society in existence has ultimately been "financed with the blood of others", as you put it. I did not choose my genes or my place of birth; I have chosen to make it work for me and those in my expanding circle of care. "You and me know" that you have fearfully revealed little of yourself, act ragefully, curse, throw childish tantrums, lose your logic, and think that successful survival must be evil. You will always be poor or hate yourself. Such guilt. You show no care for fellow men.

[fairalways]

Learning comes through introspection, regardless of whether the information comes from books or TV. I have said many times here, which you consistently ignore, that I have nothing against whatever government structure you live under. The important thing is that it works. You won't say where you live, but by your anger I would guess it isn't working too well. You also feel that capitalism is working better or you wouldn't rage so. Evolution doesn't care.

[fairalways]

Evolution demands no "constant equilibrium"...I understand perfectly well that when you talk theory, not science, it is all, as you say "bullshit". Your only enemy is yourself; your hero Marx was Jewish. You keep avoiding and evading this. Your childish cursing indicates the rage of a war-lover.

[fairalways]

No, you are correct. Real behavioral change for you is up to you. My psychology is something, but only if you are open and willing. Too bad. I'm sure help exists where you live.

[fairalways]

I imagine you get plenty of hate yourself with your attitude. Your bigotry has no impact on the comfortable life I've built for myself. Your posts have from the start intended to hurt, but it is your own hurt which is continuously revealed. Jews had nothing to do with your pain, your rage. Own it, admit it, be honest with yourself, and build a real relationship with yourself...and ultimately, someone else (It's obvious you need one).

[fairalways]

The objective is to get you to examine your own personal reasons for rage and feelings of smallness. I know I cannot succeed here, but your comments will not go unanswered. You keep quoting others, as if they are speaking instead of you. You are butchering your logic now. You have expressed some vague never-existant Communist fantasy of which I should fear. My wife is scarier. Your cursing continues to show your childishness.

[fairalways]

When I say "with psychology you change yourself", I should say you can change your behavior and clarify your self-awareness. With Communism, or any other -ism, it changes nothing about self-awareness, and so people are free to be just as rageful, fearful, and empty as your behavior here exemplifies. It ultimately doesn't change human nature.

[fairalways]

Also, you imply that before this "capitalist exploitation" in China things were better under Communism. They were not. And worker exploitation in China far predates their recent capitalist shift. "Made in China" goes back decades.

[fairalways]

You've lived 22 years, have little personal history, and you honestly think you understand the lessons of history? After you get a girlfriend or boyfriend, develop a career, marry or develop years of relationship, and have kids, then perhaps history will give you deeper insight. Right now you spout fearful angry bigotry and childlike fantasy.

[fairalways]

Imagining that TV is my teacher, like so much of what you say, is imagination. Nice of you to think that Marx (a fellow Jew) is your supreme teacher. He was just a guy with an idea that anybody has yet to make work. This has nothing to do with reality or your life which scares you so. You are already finding excuses to justify failure at life before you've even started. Go out, do good, and don't worry about utopia. Your kids will thank you.

[fairalways]

Your rageful anger makes a joke of your "existance next to each other is utopia', and you can't see it. Who ISN'T a "worker"? Such childish silliness. With psychology you change yourself. It is presumptuous to think that you know what will make for a perfect world for anybody but yourself...and you clearly don't know yourself. Evolution dictates that there is no perfect society and there can't be. If you can make Communism work, fine. But don't expect it to be perfect.

[fairalways]

Rich does not equal evil, and poor doesn't equal righteous. You seem determined to remain poor so as to win some imagined moral victory. I have no walls where I live, and I feel sorry that you are so desperate as to threaten. There are alternatives.

[fairalways]

Also "the problem" is that you seem to lack introspection or empathy. Our fathers influenced their sons. But when you can't understand why a Jew feels as they do in anything other than a cartoonish 2-dimensional way, your father's teachings on the subject matter little, through his fault or maybe just yours. I see people as individuals and groups of individuals, with immeasureable and difficult-to-measure variety.

[fairalways]

Name-calling and cursing say more about you than me, have no effect on me, and will not deter me from assiduously addressing you. The only insult of pertinence here is the institutional way you make your problems that of the Jews.

[fairalways]

I wonder, since you've shown little understanding of Darwin, illogic if not hypocrisy in your Marxist/Communist talk, and some illogical scientology/psychology mention, that it matters who else you've read at all. It seems that you are more interested in regurgitating theory than in creating original thoughts of your own through self-examination and empathy.

[fairalways]

I work from home, and would rather do this than play solitaire. I have a wonderful, fulfilling life, and I anguish over much of the world where there are people who do not. I'm afraid you will look back in 10-20 years and be embarrassed by the vile childishness you display. The choice is yours to stop being so. You can see I am impervious to name-calling. The problem is yours to face.

[fairalways]

My father is a more hostile Zionist supporter than me. I am more regretful. He's very bright but emotionally hampered.I'm a person with a name, not a "capitalist whore". It makes it easy to hate when you reduce people to ideologies. It is sad that you show little ability to introspect and show empathy. Sociopaths lack the same things. I hope you are not. I am married with a son, and have a very full life. You, it is likely, don't have much. I am sorry. But you must work on yourself first.

[fairalways]

SO are you a bigot? You defend Marx, the Jew who you at the same time hate. Evolution takes its own course...you seem to not be grasping this. Anything may be the next evolutionary step, there is no "better" or "worse", just survival. Morality has nothing to do with survival. And it's nice to hear how much you've read. I hope you realize that scientology hates PsyCHIATRY (as in medicine), but what does this have to do with psychology or anything we're addressing?

[fairalways]

Listen to your fantasy: "we will run over you". Do these sound like the words of sanity, of discussion? You sound like a bully in a schoolyard. "Playing the good guy" sounds like a nice fantasy as well. I have been civil and apologetic where apropriate. If you think this makes me "the good guy" I won't object. You are correct that much of the world suffers depressively, including you. How exactly are you "doing good"? And for what again am "I" responsible?

[fairalways]

You already hate Jews, remember. It seems that all it takes to get you to hate someone is to confront you with a mirror. "Getting radical" means just that...get radical. I thought you hated Marx, the Jew. "Using your power" is just what a psychologist would help you to do in confronting your anger and becoming functional. Again, when you curse, your point is lost. Ask who sounds like a "fucking idiothead". Most embarassing.

[fairalways]

Obviously you care...you are replying.

[fairalways]

Also, I have no idea what Margaret Thatcher said, nor could care. It is what has happened in Communist countries. What do you mean by "economical politic", and how would it realistically work? Is there any example, or is it all theory, a fantasy? Again I digress from your bigotry...so what does this have to do with it?

[fairalways]

I clearly know SOMETHING about the world...such a silly, lazy statement. You should care about your communication skills, otherwise, why try to communicate? You implied you took ideas from your father. He clearly did more than just give you a book. A hint: when you curse, you have lost (what, I don't know). But you obviously think there is something to win and lose here.You see me as a threat. Maybe a woman will have some healing influence on you.

[fairalways]

If you think the world is sick, then it is more likely that you suffer from depression, are sick yourself. Evolution could care less about mankind and will eventually be done with us. There are clearly many unproductive and violent parts of the world right now. There are also more economies growing like never before in the world right now. You are welcome to stick adamantly to your point of view...it all sounds like a child with a tantrum. Are you making the world sicker or better?

[fairalways]

So which is it, you agree with Marx, a Jew, who you say wasn't Communist and was a bigot, and his views, or not? And who cares what someone else said--Marx, your dad? Think for yourself. Psychology doesn't "make" people do anything. It helps them to understand their personal wiring so they may have satisfaction in the way they navigate life's highs and lows. If anything, telling people to "get radical" is trying to "make people bend".

[fairalways]

You used Amnesty International in your post. I can tell English isn't your native language (what is it?), but what does artificial intelligence have to do with anything posted, including IQ? You seem so agitated, so eager to attack and "be righteous". Manliness is your issue, not mine. No "winners" necessary here.

[fairalways]

Saying "I don't know shit" obviously doesn't make it so. These are the uncivil, unexamined, lazy words of a bigot. You sir, are one of the people who fight wars. This is exactly the attitude of a war-monger.

[fairalways]

I write so much, but I may stop. You have no interest in concretely helping world situations. It's all nonspecific rageful hatred because you yourself seem miserable. You would like people to agree entirely with you, to blame the ills of the world exactly as you see them, to be on your "team" of misery...or fight. Black and White.

[fairalways]

You didn't address anything I posted. You seem to feel that any direct and personal question is a psychological threat. This is fear. The way you've been addressing this fear is to change the subject to some impersonal political motto and tell me that I'm guilty, fearful, and responsible for your poverty and lack of freedom (wherever you are). You are responsible for yourself.

[fairalways]

You are not criminals because you are poor. (Again, where do you live? I may have some helpful ideas). And no, you are no "mob who lives in shit". Consumption is not your enemy, not having ample opportunity to produce is your enemy. People are awake. Making a viable economy is difficult, whether it's capitalist, socialist, communist...the challenge is making the system work, not necessarily the system.

[fairalways]

I meant, what are you referring to as utopia? Communism? So you think that your desire for the world can never be? If so, why are we having a conversation? If so, you aren't a Communist, you're a fantasist, by definition. If so, how dare you judge real people who make real decisions when you've yet to make a real one!

[fairalways]

Thank you for proving my point. And my tower of books is bigger than your tower of books. How silly the "fatual" discussion becomes. There are events, and then there are peoples' emotional lens through which they see those events.

[fairalways]

Oh, I see, you mean that Marx brought up "the Jew question". Well, if he's a bigot, you....are not? Please help me with your logic. (I am no defender of Marx, nor do I have many developed opinions about him, by the way.)

[fairalways]

This theoretical conversation is unproductive. Very idealistic, but Communism is clearly without much traction in the world today. Again, I'd live with it, I just don't think it works. The issue is your Jewish bigotry. What you fear is just that, a fear. You may not like a behavior, but to extrapolate that Jews are the threat is an acutely exaggerated fear. If anything, it is a community of capitalists which you fear of all ethnic and religious and cultural make-up.

[fairalways]

Marx said what? Jews represent 15-20 million among 6 billion. The law of large numbers makes your fear an impossibility. Christians may feel under attack or be "losing their influence", but hardly. You, as an individual, are a sub-society, as is your family which you defend so ardently, as is your town...each with its own priorities and needs.

[fairalways]

What's utopia?

[fairalways]

And what is to make "all people" participate if they don't want? Talk about things that will never work.

As far as Capitalism goes, prices stabilize when markets are mature and costs reach equilibrium. But I really don't care about this intellectual discourse. You've changed the subject from your bigotry.

[fairalways]

China is Communist. You do not get to flesh out your definition of Communism and 2-dimensionalize Jews. I did not say there weren't other ways of looking at China's situation. I said "one could easily say", pointing out your 2-dimensionality. And where does your "Communism" exist in the world today? And again, you've changed the broad subject from your Jewish bigotry.

[fairalways]

"AI" is Amnesty International. Are we communicating at all? To what lies do you refer? Please tell me what you think I said in my last post. I don't think you're comprehending well.

[fairalways]

I have never avoided an ethical person, a non-threatening person in my life. I have little gripe about Communism, I just prefer Capitalism with all it faults. The issue is your Jewish bigotry. It is nice of you to defend your dad, but we're talking about you. You are evading the issue...again. You really are a kid. Time to grow up and develop your own ideas. But you need life experience, so I guess I shouldn't expect much for about 10 years.

[fairalways]

If you would misunderstand Jewish desire to have the same kind of power as those who oppressed them as "a jewish ideology which likes to put jews on top of the world", then again you've misunderstood Jews. I am Jewish and I am telling you this. I am saying this directly to you. Do you understand? What you describe is not my ideology. It would be a self-defeating ideology of far lower moral standards than Jews expect from ourselves.

[fairalways]

One could just as easily say that Christians, or Communists, or Muslims, or ( ) societies exist and are a threat to non-Chritians or non-Communists, or non-Muslims and lead to injustice. This is pure bigotry.

[fairalways]

It is exactly what's happened in every Communist country on Earth, as I far as I see. Theory is nice. It isn't reality. And this still has nothing to do with Jewish bigotry. More evasion. You (or you, as part of your family) have created a world view to justify your feelings of fear and anger about powerlessness. You feel empowered and righteous, the others are evil and weak. It's mostly in your head.

[fairalways]

That is a flattening out, a 2-dimensional statement. One could easily say that capitalism is raising the standard of living for millions of people daily in China from their Communistic pain and poverty and giving them justice. This is a silly ideological discussion, as it has nothing to do with your Jewish bigotry.

[fairalways]

I don't understand your English. Of course you judge him differently than others. You stated that he was crazy. That is a judgement about his difference. You are having problems with introspection. Please think about it before reacting and typing. I think to what you refer is ethical judgement. No, I doubt you would judge people close to you ethically. It's the "them" who you and your dad and whoelse hate and judge ethically. All very tidy and bigoted.

[fairalways]

You have put people in drawers, that is my point from the start. You just did in this post when you stated "jews dont do". And you've used "psychological binoculars" to poorly describe Jewish behavior. You are an animal and so am I. You may not like being "viewed", so perhaps you should think twice about doing it with others.

[fairalways]

Of course Jews were influential during that time. And? So were others, of other religions. Stalin was anti-religion, anti-semitic. Jews were also persecuted and killed by Stalin. Please stop with the biased history lesson. It will go nowhere with me. Christian or anarchist Communism existed before Marx, yes. I am wrong and you are right to be particular. But it likely would have no reality on any scale without Marx. You probably wouldn't know what it is. Without this Jewish person.

[fairalways]

Also, Communism doesn't tend to reward someone for running a business better and more efficiently than the next, which can make for a corrosive economy. It easily creates the "power clusters" so ideologically avoided within Government, and easily stagnates innovation and economies. Not a recipe for evolutionary success.

[fairalways]

I did not say that ALL Communists have never run a business, I said most. Perhaps I should have added "In capitalist countries". So you are from a socialist country. You are aware that you ARE part of a clan, a nationalist "team"? That your individual satisfaction largely relies on the success of your country?

[fairalways]

Ideas are not your father. I have not attacked nor disparaged your father. Ideas are yours, mine, your father's, everybody's. You keep calling me names, and I continue to be civil. You are having problems understanding my posts, would you agree? If so, I'll stop posting.

[fairalways]

Marx, a Jew, invented Communism. Your version of this history is the view of a bigot, not factual. It is easily inherited or acquired on bigoted web sites. Once again...propaganda. We've nothing to gain from rehashing what you think are "facts". It is all distraction from the anger of a perceived sense of powerlessness.

[fairalways]

Calling my ideas "stupid"...is the definition of it. Helping people help themselves can hardly be a profession worth raging against as you do. It speaks more to your fear of facing your obvious rage and reasons for it. You just did judge your friend, by the way.

[fairalways]

Where have I lied? You admit to having no empathy...do you understand how you did so ("one view of righteousness", etc)? You have displayed rage, and have shown sloppily biased scholarship. It's likely that I was right in my sensing before, you have some family identity on the line which you feel I've threatened. I'm sorry. I'll tread gently: your dad may be a great guy, but ask yourself if you are carrying his opinions as your own.

[fairalways]

Your family background is informative. You realize that Communism was the "ideology" of many Jews. My ancestors published in in Communist paper "The Forward".

[fairalways]

Your confused illogic is worth sorting out. Does your father run a capitalist business or do you live in a Communist country? Perhaps you can give insight into how your father's business runs. My evolution point about DNA and viruses you didn't understand, so called it "bullshit". I'm sorry I asked you to think. You seem uninterested in ANYONE's soul.

[fairalways]

Your posts are sometimes difficult to understand. Yes, Jews were disqualified from various professions during various points in history. And you see this as the Jews fault not the perpetrators. Again, 2-dimensional, and a bit insane. If I did the same to you and your family, if I presumed to know why you do what you do, how would you feel? As you do right now when I am picking your motives apart?

[fairalways]

Such a stark black-and-white statement. There is no need for me to re-address this.

Yes. I started it. I won't push your "emotional limit" further. I'm no sadist. Understand that your statements have offended me. Can you understand that others feel as well?

[fairalways]

That is the very definition of unempathic. If you cannot see another's point of view, it is a sign of inability to introspect. This is either simple self-denial or indicative of a deeper neurosis.

[fairalways]

You chose to feel manipulated. I asked questions and made observations. I am more than a hobby psychologist, FYI. You may stay defensive. I don't wish to continue to see you agitated, and thus may stop posting. This thread is a record I will be proud to leave my son.

[fairalways]

Zionism is not Jewish ideology. It was born of Theodore Herzl, and embraced as a shelter from Jewish persecution by many Jews. Certainly not all Jews. It is a perfectly understandable, pragmatic idea, misguided or not. Very unempathic on your part. And unscholarly.

[fairalways]

Spoken like a rageful, lazy bigot.

[fairalways]

I know what behavior is being displayed on this thread. I obviously know something about you. These posts tell a lot. Not everything. You have lots of other qualities I won't ever know, and I don't need to nor necessarily want to know.

[fairalways]

I don't understand this post at all. OK, your mom is smart...and you? What has IQ to do with scholarship? You seem to suggest that Jews think that low IQ is shameful. That is a strange fabrication. Clearly Jews value scholarship, intellectualism, and Tikkun. These aren't the only things we value. It is unintelligent to suggest that this means that low intellectual ability is shameful. Notice I haven't mentioned my IQ.

[fairalways]

And the same dynamic, the same envy, the same racism. Again, very uninsightful very one-sided, very 2-dimensional, very unscientific, very unscholarly. You have a choice: feel attacked by me, or comprehend and consider.

[fairalways]

Again. It is the definition of propaganda. You are standing up for your own ego, not the world community. You haven't addressed my insights with anything other than "blah blah blah"...which is defensiveness, evasiveness. There is no absolute "righteousness". The mideast problem centers around 2 basic views of "righteousness" this should be obvious.

[fairalways]

This is fabrication, and straight off white separatists' web sites. This shows lazy, unskeptical scholarship,...and probably rageful lust. You wish to hate, and find what you seek to justify your feelings. This is about your rage, your personal life, not Jews.

[fairalways]

What do you object to of Jewish ideology? Society? As a Communist, any capitalist is likely to rub you the wrong way. Judaism doesn't discourage or encourage capitalism, but other religions don't either. My rhetorical question is: why are you obsessed with Judaism? We are the biggest charity-givers in the world, BTW. You've already called me names, judged my behavior, as I've judged yours. Behavior is personal.

[fairalways]

You continue to show no introspection. It shows self-evasion. There are many neurotics on these boards who don't offer anything of themselves. It is often a sign of depression. Rage is just a cover.

[fairalways]

Now if you asked me if I feel guilty as a Jew, the answer is yes. These were not my acts perpetrated, and I've had my own life to create and build here in the US, but insofar as I identify with my culture and have pride in it, I feel guilty and very ashamed. Perhaps someday I'll have the means to help with some significant restitution for Palestinians.

[fairalways]

All these exchanges are "personal" in some way. Politics is the extension of your "personal" filter on the world's events. I disagree that only truth matters. Moral and ethical behavior matters, healing matters, improving matters, helping matters, peace matters, lots of things "matter". You do realize that many Jews aren't Zionists? That there are Nigerian Jews? Japanese Jews?

[fairalways]

You sound like a Chomsky-ite. Are you? I wonder if you'll still be a Communist in 20 years. I find most Communists to be people who've never run a business. The nature of trade and human desire will invariably create "sub societies" with power. Evolution implies mismatches of power, whether one "sub-society" possesses the power of virus-resistant DNA, or greater physical or mental advantage. It is immoral to supress individualism.

[fairalways]

I've had substance in every post, hardly "bullshit". You absolutely deal in propaganda. Your "study" is likely the propaganda easily attainable on the internet. It leaves you uncertain of what is bias, half-truth, exaggeration,or misinformation of Jewish history. Your AI reference would be largely legit, and is frankly, shameful on the part of some Jews.

[fairalways]

Again, very flip and dismissive. It almost seems as if I ask too much for you to process. Rather than toss me off, why not demand more from yourself? You cannot intellectualize and be anti-intellectual without seeming childish or lazy. This is one important kind of real work.

[fairalways]

By the way, how do you reconcile Marx being Jewish? I have no problem with your view of the failure of Zionism, as I've said. I have little regard for Communism or any ism which requires constant subjugation of the self for some greater "idea". Communism embraces our evolution-derived clannish nature (not, as you say, the unimportance of it) while rejecting our evolution-derived individually competitive nature within our clan. It clashes with our wiring, in other words.

[fairalways]

Einstein did not invent the atom bomb. He railed against it. Unscholarly rants are a mirror on your rageful soul. Hardly the tone of a pacifist. Ghandi also knew my family. He was anti-Zionist, but friends of many Jews and regarded Judaism and the concept of Tikkun highly. His unrealistic solution for Jews in WWII Germany was for all Jews to stand up to the Nazi crime which knew "no parallel in history" and martyr themselves.

[fairalways]

You seem very angry and confused. If you'd rather not be disturbed, better off you stay off the net. You've left an unflattering permanent imprint for you to reflect on in a couple of decades. These posts will still be here.

[fairalways]

PS... where do you live? It might explain some of your experience. I'm 5th generation New York (hardly a disaster, by the way).

[fairalways]

My guess is that this whole issue is for you a distraction from the very difficult task of making your way into adulthood in your 20's. It's usually a frustrating time, and blame is easy to find: your boss, girls, Jews. It's a time which forces you to get your shit together, which (sorry) can take many years. You have value and so do your ideas...just think how much more evolved those ideas will be in 20 years. Good luck.

[fairalways]

"Righteousness" is denial in your case. Here's some help: when faced with an idea that challenges your preconceptions, introspect. You have posted no "facts". Just emotional opinions and emotional opinions of others...probably people you know, often family. Growing up involves continuing to love people with which you may come to disagree...including Dad, Mom, and friends. Ask yourself: are you totally, absolutely moral? Do friends sometimes accuse you of being wrong when you don't feel so?

[fairalways]

People also love Jews all over the world. Such a silly statement. It is logical that wherever there is success there is envy by some. The Israeli situation is additional fuel for rageful fires like yours. To say that we bring disaster is ungrateful...just Jewish scientific understanding alone has likely lengthened your life span. You are young. Should you have problems transitioning to adulthood, my 2 cents is that shedding 2-dimensional black-and-white thinking may help. Introspect.

[fairalways]

There is no discussion here. You display no introspection and are flip. Your easy dismissal of my well-thought-out ideas is lazy internet filler. This is over ...unless you wish to give an answer showing depth and empathy. I hope you're not just a YT troll.

[fairalways]

I can see you have bought into a hateful screed. Yes, involved but not #1 in slave trade (hardly a large %), same with "war business", what do you mean by "exploitation"(?), nothing immoral necessarily in business (behavior is what matters, which is a mixed bag with a mix of players), what do you mean about elected officials(what, one?), nothing immoral in money (not a "cult"), clearly your rageful emotional lens (look at yourself first or else it's envy).

[fairalways]

You missed the point about being nice. You said "no one would have ever harmed them if they were nice persons." A most "not nice" statement. Should you (and "your people") deserve harm for saying such things?...no. Of course not. I won't debate whether Jews are always civil or not (you've already shown a slight lack of it yourself), but violence is not the accepted response in most moral societies. I doubt you go around hitting strangers for every slight.

[fairalways]

What is a proven fact? Please be clear. Remember, this is history we're talking about, which is imperfect science, as there is emotional content in events which exist solely in the emotional perception of the individual. There are no double-blind studies.

[fairalways]

I think Dr. Kovel says it best when he refer's to "Zionism's bad conscience". Jews consider morality and Tikkun to be of highest value (certainly there have been many cases of individual Jewish immorality throughout history. On the whole, I'm very proud). Yet here we are being so immoral in our Palestinian relations. It is easy ground for denial.

[fairalways]

And yes, there was entitlement and couched racism at Israel's inception. The Bourgeoise attitude at the time (like my family, who helped fund Israel and my family's friend, Einstein, both shared) was turning a convenient blind eye, justified by the unstated notion of "gently moving" Palestinians. The violence of the Irgun and LEHI were quickly disillusioning, yet hope reigned for some "equal" solution until the past 10-20 years or so.

[fairalways]

Please don't presume to know what Dr. Kovel "left out" of his discussion, nor presume to know why Jews weren't welcome (they often were welcome) in European society. I can see that I don't wish a discussion or debate with one who makes such 2-dimensional statements. The base of your present anger is no doubt Israel, a failing experiment borne out of desperation and opportunism.

[fairalways]

"The entitled Jew" is an easy stereotype that is easy to find, as it stands out. It is hardly representative of me, my family, Dr. Kovel, or most Jews I know or come across in my scientific, artistic, or social readings and listenings. You never did answer my question, and have revealed little of yourself...which is usually the first place to point one's judgemental finger.

[fairalways]

I am Jewish, formerly pactising and now mostly cultural. Wisdom is usually found be leading with empathy when you learn. I do not need debate, I certainly know who I am. And I am nice. You...do you think what you wrote was nice? That is a rather sad and (pardon me, I'm trying to be nice) shallow statement about why people are harmed.

[fairalways]

You confuse "Tikkun Olam" (to heal or repair the world) with Jews seeing themselves as leaders and above others. "The Chosen People" means chosen by God to follow its burdensome laws....hardly, and not, above other human beings.

[eye8one2]

I believe when Khazarians were being annihilated (around 910AD)many fled and supposedly took up Judaism as it was established, had no nation and they could move about the world undetected with their new face. They basically infiltrated the faith, took it offer and have caused all the problems associated to the Jewish hatred. Real smite people are good people but the Zionists are of a different way of being, they are actors...8)

[eye8one2]

That was said by a Zionist who was hiding behind a vale of what should be religious or a spiritual based culture. those who were godless wished to control those who had much influence through their travels, works/words, so they infiltrated them, acted, bastardized it for gain/control which included getting people to worship material & exchange wealth/riches for crap, ultimately demised for the benefit of the thieves or tricksters.

[eye8one2]

People truly need to watch the entire series. I am very impressed with this mans words.

How long before the put him in jail for thought crimes?