Everyone! Solutions! Read Sacred Economics by Charles Eisenstein. Look into the Trasition Town movement. We need to build networks to un-commidify our relationship to goods and services (the earth and each other).
We all live in the dual role as "Producer" and "Consumer". We must produce enough to consume what we feel is comfortable or socially appropriate. The problem with most Americans is that we want to Consume MORE than we are willing to Produce. (Hurray for Credit Cards?!)
What about working for what you want and getting what you need? I know people think of communism right away but maybe labeling everything doesn't work because it takes people away from logic. Sustenance is not as expensive as we make it out to be and really every person is just exploited into a life of repetitive work to supply someone else with something they don't REALLY want. As long as you can convince, you can do anything, it's all in your head really
I think most people, when in a situation where they are encouraged to spontaneously answer the question posed here, tend to associate the word "work" - consciously or subconsciously - with forced labour and being exploited. I think this is the case because they feel deep down that in general, people are, to a greater or lesser extent, being unfairly exploited and oppressed in their jobs.
@UtubeMyAccountName thats correct, but to extend more into this look at the glowing eyeball behind a dollar bill inside of a triangle above the pyramid, that is the 3rd eye aka PINEAL GLAND. when a human being is not apart of the elite bloodline, and found sum kind of way to use their 3rd eye, the govt' sends the MIB after them and treat them as a alien, bcuz the pineal gland is a magic vessel in our body that allows man to do magic, technology,weaponry,tools,etc are made with the 3rd eye
@UtubeMyAccountName only those few represented on the dollar bill have the essence of all technology, a average joe cannot build technology from the ground up unless you are using magic. no amount of education will teach you this secret, if they did then their would be no use for a job when you finished school, you just find your own land live on it and create whatever the hell you wanted. last thing be on your mind was money
It isn't that capitalism is a form of mental suicide, but rather that what comes after it is. Capitalism in its true form is a temporary boon that no other social configuration can equal the benefits of. Capitalism is always followed by entrenchment of established interests, stagnation of labor, capital and society, and ultimately degeneration into tyranny. What we're living in is not capitalism, but rather the ugly stage between it and natural tyranny.
I truly don't understand the point of this video. People would rather not work, shop, and pay the bills? I guess your point is that no one should work we should all shop, forget about paying our bills.
Only one problem Capitalism has to exist in order for one to shop. Capitalism has to exist in order to have debt. Someone MUST be able to produce a good in order for shopping to exist. This video actually advocates capitalism. LOL!
Our only point of power is where we work. It's time for workers of the whole world to walk out together on Profit. Jackdempseywriter.wordpress dot c-o-m
Perhaps the point of the first half of the video is to point out the inconsistencies of peoples' answers to the questions. This is especially true of the second question. "Do you want to go to work...?" Most people hate what they do for their job. So, the answer is no. They do not go to work, as it currently stands, because they want to. The question needed to rephrased in order to get an honest answer...probably because they never really thought about it seriously.
People only say things like this because most work is terrifying boring and unrewarding. People no longer feel like their work matters, it's more like whack-a-mole. A person with an education and opportunities to find work they find rewarding and interesting and can see the fruits of their labor (other than the actual pay) they are much more likely to want to work.
@INatalkaI I disagree I love my work and I find it extremely rewarding. But if you asked me if I would rather shop or work, of course I'm going to choose shop.Shopping is a leisure activity. The question is misleading. The question should have been: Would you rather do with out because you have no money or would you rather work to earn money so that you could go shopping.?
@dynamitemike65 Not true, my friend. A gardner or farmer, an artist, a writer, a great cook...people who pursue their passions would choose our labor over shopping. To me, being engaged in writing is one of the highest pleasures. Shopping is a frivolous entertainment. The question is well put, but we can't see well outside the box we were socialised in. What if we organised around what we wanted to learn and achieve, not molded in school to fit like cogs into the machine?
@zurieljoshua Lucky people will pay you for it. I've written a novel and a half, five screenplays, and three stage plays. I have an award and a letter of recommendation, but I have yet to find anyone interested in producing or publishing my work. I have been struggling to get interviews in spite of having a master's degree, and I'm going to lose Internet access if I don't pay the bill by Monday, which I currently can't.
"the only thing that will end wage slavery is Death " Not true onetruekeeper, one can have democratic workplaces to "put food on the table". Google for Miners EconomicDemocracy or for How the Miners Were Robbed 1907 (pamphlet) that and more at /economicdemocracy Dott org Slash analy.shtml (See also otherworld.swf great funny animation on our website). Communist dictators and Capitalist bosses agree that "those are the only two systems"Anything they agree about you Know must be a lie. See links
If I had enough money to live comfortably, I would still work. It depends on your education/connections/location for your "dream" job. I'm working towards that right now, so ideally I'm working in a "job" that I actually really enjoyed. All my previous jobs, I just loved.
The only thing that will end wage slavery is Death in my opinion. A dead person has no need for rent, food or any material thing. A dead person cannot be threatened or pressured to work against his or her will or better judgement. Money is useless to a dead person. There is no solution to the wage slavery condition imho. Most people are cursed to work like a slave till they die.
What is the point of this video? There's no such thing as a free lunch. You have to work for it because there are limited resources and getting those resources in the right place in the right form takes WORK.
This video shows us nothing! Name to me a civilization in all of history where people DIDN'T work to survive. That's why people work, from cavemen to Rome to America, work puts food on the table. Of course if you had enough money to live comfortably you wouldn't have a break-back job. Was Stalin busting his hump, or did he live lavishly?
This is about semantics. There is nothing wrong with work. Work means using your muscles and brain in some activity. If you engage in some activity when you want because you want, then the work you do is not different from play. That's why when you have your own business, you don't even care how long you work or what time it is.
A job on the other hand is performing work under supervision and threath of being laid off. Which is definitely not fun.
I don't like to shop. I get in and get out. The real question should be, "Would you rather work or better yourself through education and thought." Of course we are in the middle of a deliberate dumbing down campaign lead by the Texas School Board and their propaganda they insert into textbooks.
I really love the video. I know exactly what you mean by this. They're just programming us like little robots, more than just the need to survive, the ipods, the facebook, the "social norms", stereotypes, all of it. Groucho Marx is classic haha
@donHooligan This is the harsh reality. Humans have created a culture where slavery is a necessity. We are all slaves of civilization, it's just that we never call ourselves slaves. Civilization is the greatest evil of all.
I agree that people, including myself, should take their lives into their own hands more, especially with work. This video points out people not doing that. this vid's position against capitalism, like the title suggested, consisted of these logical fallacies: Abstractness, Generalization, Sampling, degree, causation and "Ignoratio Elenchi" (arguing off the point). It missed the real problems w/ capitalism like equity bubbles, inherent inequality, the business cycle exc.
In psychology there's a term called "splitting" which relates to black and white thinking. There's also an interesting concept "conformational bias" where you set out to confirm what you already hold to be true. I would humbly point out that despite your outstanding dancing skills and great selection of Chompsky clips your personal reasoning depicted in this clip falls short of enlightenment;)
Sweatshops....hmmm...are capitalists the owner of those...oh no, wait a minute...governments own sweatshops! Karl Marx's standards of employment, all you need is food, water, and shelter....like a horse or a donkey! Sounds much better than working in an air conditioned office.
Another fucking idiotic remark brought to you by the man I name "The Janitor". Must be nice being in a air conditioned bathroom for work. Capitalists do own sweat shops the moment they buy the products from the sweat shops because it's cheap and made by children and slaves.Capitalists will take money from the poor and give into their own pockets it's like going into a salvation army and robbing them when your a billionaire. Look at BP and the crisis down in Gulf for a example.
A lioness is not a male. An ad hominem attack, how ego defensive. Not exactly into Socrates' philosophy of not admitting you don't know everything, eh? I am taking the road less traveled, and ignoring your personal attacks.
BP is it's own industry. Some capitalists are eco friendly. Generalization is a fallacy as well. Generalization makes everyone in a group pay for its worst, fueling ethnocentricity.
I never had anything in my comment about a lioness see that's what drugs will do to you idiot. I stand by my attack "Janitor" and will continue to. Socrates is a old pile of bones whos dead and didn't know half as much as I do. You ignore my personal attacks about you mopping up the school bathroom? BP are just as greedy as any oil company and if you say oil companies are not greedy your even more of a dumbass. Capitalism has failed the world and anyone with a brain knows it.
BP is an oil company! British Petroleum! How did you come to the assumption I was defending oil company greed? I nearly cried out "vive le alternate fuel".
Where do you think green energy comes from? Corporations that don't cause ecological disasters produce it!
You called me a man, remember? My username is obviously female. Riverlioness. A lioness is a female lion, sheisskopf.
For all I know it's your name not your gender so I can give a shit less.Socrates was a old bag of shit who knew less than we all know today so I'll insult him when I please. I'm done talking to a conservative nut job who knows not a damn thing about progressing through the future without being a slave to a form of economics that rewards greed and buys off our politicians WHICH I STILL THINK SHOULD BE ILLEGAL. British Petroleum is a bunch of greedy assholes who deserve to burn.
I am not a conservative! I am neither on the left nor right side of political insanity. This is the "either-or false dilemma". You are full of fallacies!
Fuck Karl Marx. Marx never met a shot glass he didn't like. Ludwig Von Mises kicked his ass at economics. Marx read one economic theory in his life! It was difficult reading through the vodka induced fog.
Fuck Francis Galton as well. The arrogant aristocratic leach. Ego centricism isn't a science!
You weren't paying attention to my username, were you? You simply made an assumption I am a man. This was my point.
Knowledge is not obtained through assumption. Confidence is fine, but over confidence borders on mental lethargy.
You assumed I would not read into your ego defense mechanisms, and dare to play mental chess with you, did you not? "For all I know it's your name not your gender" is defensive.
@NewRevolutionLeader Wait, so Capitalists are to blame for buying products from Communist countries with sweat shops? You are blaming Capitalists because Communists have sweat shops. Hu Jintao, by the way, is the world's most powerful man, according to Forbes, and Castro is reportedly worth $550 million. Go live in Cuba or China if they have it better.
@moredoughnuts01 Forgive me if I am misinterpreting having only caught this part of your conversation. But aren't countries engaged in capitalist ventures i.e selling products to other nations, not communist but capitalist? I don't think you can call China communist. It may have started there, but it is actually one of the most successful capitalist societies today. (successful based on a purely economic standard) Not better in quality of life etc.
Capitalism is the best system ever. The problem is the people that choose to destroy the environment instead of protect it. It is always mans fault. Man is flawed. Capitalism is not bad, it has just not been run wisely.
capitalism is sucking right now cause our socialist government takes 50% of our money! We would be 50% more richer 50% more free to do what we want to do or would only have to work HALF as much - if we weren't under a socialist government. This video starts"Philosophizes in mid stream" with out an understanding of our current situation and How we got here.
Weve never had a purely Capitalistic society, if we had, you would see that FRee Market equilibrium does indeed work. The problem isnt capitalism, the problem is an illegitimate IRS and being taxed to death along with govt interference in corporations. Take govt out of the picture and get rid of involuntary taxes and these problems would cease.
You cannot say; because capitalism creates hierarches it is not free. Freedom has no 'values' as such: freedom means voluntary exchange and lack of coercion, true freedom may never exist but it means property rights to form SOCIETY and income through exchange, heterogeneity and inequality in the division of labour-and attempts to destroy such hierarchy must use force and therefore reject liberty.
Economic calculation is impossible without exchange therefore socialism=starvation
Socialism is not starvation if done correctly and by the way let me break down capitalism for you. Capitalism creates billionaires who in turn want to generate more profit so they buy off media and government. These media and government brainwash the country into thinking one minded (which is not free thinking which built this country). These brainwashed people buy products and health care from people who are frauds and corrupt our government. They send jobs overseas and then you have traitors.
I suggest you look over your posts and see the strawman myth you've made of capitalism. You've equated Contract V Coercion with theft of taxpayers money, mandate of 'public' projects and profits to those industries running the Collectivist projects, this is illicit profit through force whereas productivity and wealth ensure that contractual societies prosper; so you've equated the tyranny and penury of state socialism with capitalism and Rule of Law of Contract V Coercion.
Capitalism equals garbage in simple PLAIN ENGLISH. Capitalism failed no different than socialism or communism. Capitalism is made up of the rich minority ruling the country and making the markets unregulated and using that to commit fraud. If you haven't noticed that's how we have lobbyist.
You are showing that you haven't understood a word I said nor used any substance in your logical process. You're just another arrogant individual who does not respect reason nor considers that those who speak with substance have the full reason of truth and realisation as opposed to guessing at what one has neither studied nor intuitively understood.
Why not define what is government?
Now do the same for morality, choice, profit and then for police, compulsion, rule.
Law of liberty is not important in economics idiot and democratic government is a governing body to represent the people.This is NOT WHAT WE HAVE IN AMERICAN NOW or for the last few decades. Did you realize the tax on the rich about 4 or 5 decades ago was 90 percent?Then as big corporations got power they paid off legislating bodies of government in attempt to lower taxes and make it easier on THEM.This left us with job loses overseas and corrupted government this is capitalism at it's finest.
I could tell that you were someone who doesn't know anything much of what he speaks from the minute you started babbling nonsense at me.
For example, the tax on the rich being so high: what came of that?
And what was before such high tax?
You need to develop some maturity and intellectual rigour before I can even BEGIN to engage with you through this way of debating on comments, which require brevity not sufficient to contain all that you need to learn about these topics of economics&morality
Don't be jealous that I proved capitalism wrong in such simple forms of communication. Remember big words and proper knowledge does not conquere real common sense. Go find a nice capitalists to date and I mean MAN to find.
"proper knowledge does not conquere real common sense"
Guess what, proper (appropriate) knowledge DOES conquere (conquer) so-called common-sense especially if that common-sense is based on ignorance, of empirical evidence and on illogical misconstruction from absent or bad intuition.
Go find some non-socialists so that you can have your mind expanded by rational discussion. I'm not going to try because you're not even worthy of a sensible discussion, treating these issues with such flippancy.
And China is free? The Ceo is worse than the government bully, you say? Do you really believe the communist tribe Noam Chomsky promises won't be taken over by another Lenin? Ha! You are proposing self-servitude because you don't enjoy your work. Find a new line of work---problem solved....once you are owned by the iron fist of communism....there is no quitting! There is no putting in a resume elsewhere. You'll wish you were back on your cell phone
Your a fucking idiot and I do not have work I go to college right now and I love what I am going to college for. Lenin is dead, communism works if done properly perfect example is China (our enemies) but I do not condone communism JUST CERTAIN PARTS OF IT mainly the way the economics are ran. You can keep your day job don't worry I'm sure not many Janitors love their job as much as you do.Apparently there is quitting because last time I checked there is a thing called revolution.
Noam Chomsky is describing the modes of production defined in Philosophy: Action, Work, Labor. Differs from Arendt.
Labor-necessary to maintain life.
Action-intrinsic to humanity, intimate to a person, performed because of an interest.
Work-foreign to humanity, strange to a person, performed because it is required.
He concludes, Society sucks when civilization is constructed from the product of Work, we should look for Labor or Action. He adds it's better to make than to just consume.
@MysticKevin10 Very true! It would not have been unjust if one would be offered life in capitalist or an alternative society, but one is not. Without any other choice, in order to survive the only option is to work jobs you don't necessarily like and in that logic jobs are slavery. Thank you MysticKevin10, really. I was just trying to tell maybe a different view on the topic and hearing what people have to say about it.
Working isn't compulsory, neither is surviving. To survive one will always have to make efforts. Capitalism, no matter how unfair, is a vehicle that allows us to survive by sharing our products in a way so that we do not have to produce everything we need ourselves (to be able to buy what one does not produce). What is not necessary however is buying more than one needs, and having to work for that. That's the difference between working to shop, or working to pay the bills.
In socialism the hard-working do not support the lazy and unambitious! In Parecon (what I think is the best and most practical theory for an anarchist (libertarian socialist) society remuneration is for effort and sacrifice - obviously with roofs on how much extra people can earn to prevent a race to the bottom. Actually in capitalism the hard-working working class support the managers who do not do their own work but instead profit off the work of others.
ive worked labour 30yrs but for myself. ive seen bosses literally debase their employees in front of ppl for mistakes on the job. screaming fuck you!!! at them. no man or woman shud ever take that. and thats why ive been lucky enuf to work for myself as hard as its been.
funny thats always the knock and theres some truthin it but, sweeden, norway denmark, these countries have a higher standard of living than the usa. so the question is , what are the overall positives and negatives to any system and are they always the same in differant countries?
I assure you they are not the same in all countries. The district of corruption and Britan produce some of the most sinister and greedy paracites known to man.
You can never have real capitalism or real socialism in the federally controlled states. If you want prosperity the first step is to get the federals out the picture and return ALL rights to the states where things are on a smaller scale and more manageable.
ok only prob is that when capitalism gets to big, when corporations get as powerful as govt small biz and your average worker gets screwd cuz the ultimate purpose of biz is profit, even at the expense of workers. i want neither govt or big biz on my back
At the federal level bribery and corporate favoratism are unstoppable however I believe If things were brought down to a much smaller scale(1/50 smaller) things would be more easily controlled. The union is simply too large to operate as one single country. This is not what our founders had in mind.
the founders did have probs with the states powers tho. things like differant money for differant states and quibbles about how to run this state opposed to that state so that interstate issues (like commerce) run smoothly. i know what you mean tho, the further away the less care is involved
Are you saying that doesn't happen currently? In regards to private ownership and management, and yes you can put the blame on that. I think this video shows accurately that few have a real incentive to work.
They have no insentive to work for creeps who's only motive is profit, not even for good, but to stay afloat and harm competitors.
success is trashing markets and other workers for the boss's creed of compete! compete! compete! fuck you cunt, compete! you piece of shit moron, compte!
Only the anarchist maintains in a state of nature there is organisation and mutual aid. Hobbes conversely argues life is "nasty, solitary, brutish and short". Hence we form a society.
It seems to me your argueing all authority is illegitimate. << I may be wrong but that's how it seems to me. Personally out of logic and reason and not the fact I'm a sheep or slave, anarchism in its intended form is more unworkable then communism.
I'd prefere capitalism in a liberal democracy anyday.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
Only the anarchist would make the distinction of having to work for a living and having to work for a boss. They are in any other socio-economic structure realistically the same thing. I work to survive for myself in a state of nature. I work for others to survive in a societal structure. The only difference is in the latter I have a master whereas in the former I have none, but in freeing myself of a master therefore hierachy therefore society I lose justice, protection, rights, oppurtunities..
u should not confuse the subjection of man to nature (having to work for a living) w/the subjection of man to man (having to work for a boss). Apologists for chattel slavery similarly said "well, the slave has to work anyway to survive". Both wage and chattel slaves have to work for a boss under threat of starvation. In colonial Brazil chattel slaves could buy their own freedom&become self-employed, businessmen or slaveowners. Social mobility doesnt justify a "work for a boss or else" status quo
Social mobility would create a "work for a boss or else" status quo. If there's a mobility there's a hierachy, if there's a hierachy there's a boss and a worker. That is what I think your saying.
In my opinion you've assumed that simply working for a boss makes you a slave. A slave has no rights; an employee does. A slave has no wages, an employee does. A slave cannot choose his work, a charity worker can.
Even in a capitalist system we have freedoms that slaves could never enjoy.
You confuse familiarity with force. No one here is forced to work for a boss or else face starvation. There are other ways to make money if one does not want a direct boss. There are ways to survive if one chooses neither. Yes the typical model is get a job, work, even if you hate it, work several jobs if need be. They aren't forced to do that, they simply choose a path that seems the most concrete and familiar. Besides anyone who says "wage slave" has never known actual slavery.
@mr1001nights In a capitalist society, you can become your own boss. You can live on your own land and produce enough to not have to work for anyone else, or you can employ others if you wish. How is this notion of Capitalistic Slavery any different that Communist Slavery, except that you get to choose your career?
@moredoughnuts01 In a true communist society, the questions of property simply disappear. You have the freedom to think about other things than keeping your possessions safe.
about 40% of the working americans are having strong symptoms of burnout syndrome, because they work to hard and long. the cause of that is the non controll over the free marked.
Tragic.A whole bunch of people readily admitting that they are wasting their lives..the freaky thing is they all seem to think its hilarious!
Its NOT O.K to not enjoy your work.The girl who was sacked for admitting (on facebook) that she was bored with her job is lucky...she may actually end up finding her true vocation.
I wonder about the line of questioning at the begining, out of the two options the choice is obvious but this in no way relates to shopping as a be all end all of existence in modern capitalism, there are lot's of things people like more than shopping. as well it's not as if people are taught to think of work in the creative artistic sense proposed at the end of the video.
What a fkn waste!So many ppl spending the majority of their time doing something they gain little or no satisfaction from. Often their hard work doesn't add much 2 community either, more chance of boss using the 'surplus value' he takes in a way that has a negative impact.
As long as we are free 2 buy stuff b4 we realise we dont need or want most of it or that we r misled or delude ourselves about what these consumer goods can do 4 us we will be happy little wage-slaves.
that'd be an improvement. Self-management would probably entail a pretty equal distribution of money, perhaps with remuneration according to either need or effort and sacrifice.
Yes it would be improvement I think to get a %, I only mentioned it becuase myself I do not live a fixed wage. I run my own small business (with no employees) and feel the highs and lows day by day. But I'm not fixed to any limit except the success of my business. I dont feel like a slave to fixed income.
well, u see, you're not a capitalist because you don't have a staff of wage laborers u exploit. The defining characteristic of capitalism is the boss-employee hierarchical, exploitative relationship. Now, a complex industrial economy can't be run only by self-employed individuals or small businesses like yours. You need mass production and large industries. If workers & communities affected could participate in the management of industry, many problems could be solved, not only remuneration.
:sigh: The defining characteristic of capitalism is the free exchange of values. 12643 is exercising capitalism because he his exchanging his time and labor for running a business that brings him a profit. The economy could be run by small businesses, but it isn't because mass production has provided better service for consumers.
On the contrary, the defining characteristic of capitalism is wage slavery: people having to work for a boss under threat of starvation, poverty or social stigma. Read the wikipedia article on wage slavery and you'll understand
u can either live off the land and work for yourself under the threat of starvation, or u can live in society and work for a company/business under the threat of starvation. the more free and dignified thing to do is to live off the land and work for yourself and only yourself..but, with industrial society, there are so many people, there needs to be shops and stores. and those shops and stores need someone to run them, and someone to work in them..so, what do u suggest?
the only other possible alternative is self sustaining communities where everyone works for the community. every family is equal, and every family puts in work for the whole. the capitalist structure has obviously been established without the common mans dignity and well being as a top priority. it's set up for elitist priority. we are slaves to our higher ups expectations and demands. i don't see a way out of it..currently, everyone is conditioned and complacent with society as it is.
You labor to enjoy the fruit thereof. Your labor is a calculated action designed to endure hardship in order to bring about a state that is superior to what would have existed otherwise. The quantity of labor that would be needed to be self-sufficient is greater than the quantity required to reach the same end by engaging in trade. Money is the most efficient means of exchange. You labor for money and use money to generate a superior personal economic state. This is the essence of a wage.
The philosophy you are presenting is rooted in the childish belief that there is some way of making the toil of labor vanish altogether. This is, of course, economic nonsense.
These silly interviews only show that people prefer leisure to labor itself, but that they work proves that they prefer the fruits of their labor to leisure.
The laborer is no more a slave to his employer by working for a wage than a caveman was a slave to nature by hunting for food.
A slave who i lock in a cage in my basement is the same as you, because you're a slave to your need to work to subsist. So, therefore locking people in my basement is perfectly fine. As slavery is slavery is slavery (according to you).
I don't think he was claiming that slavery was acceptable. Quite the opposite. He was just openning the eyes of some blind consumers who are slaves to their desires.
I dont think communism is the idea that even people who dont work get paid. Its that everyone works and everyone gets enough to live. Because, face it, if the rich didnt exist there would be alot more for everyone else.
Communism simply changes who is rich and who isn't. The populace still are poor, but in communism they have no opportunity for advancement while government officials and their special groups sit on top like fatcats. History in many different countries has shown us that communism simply does not work- it destroys the countries people were hoping to save. Communism does, however, work in smaller groups of people when entrance (and exit) from the group is totally voluntary. You can look at...
various tribal groups (not all are communist, but many are), or communes here in America and abroad, to see examples of this. Also, concepts like sharing and "spreading the wealth" are common in capitalist countries like the U.S. However, these traits are voluntary, and thus can truly be from the heart instead of compulsory.
And erect what in its place? It would be entirely irresponsible to destroy something unless we had a suitable (workable) replacement. A big problem I find in idealistic people is that many of them know what they are "against" without knowing what they are "for". It's a trap that essentially is the culmination of mindless rebellion. Gotta know what you are "for" (and how to achieve it) if you want to effect any positive, lasting change in anything!
Don't wanna go to work...you get demoted. The military provides jobs, housing, healthcare, right?! They need food, clothes, entertainment, etc. The only difference is that you don't have to go to war. Giving people something when they're not even trying is ridiculous.
if all people liked their jobs they'd still expect to be paid wouldn't they? So what's the real problem here? that people don't go for jobs they like?
capitalism doesn't force anyone to do anything. the nature of the existence of human life is that if you want something (like shopping) you have to do something to get it (like make money).
Last I checked McDonald's and Walmart weren't kidnapping people and forcing them to work under the compulsion of a whip.
but there is a problem.... if you don't have a job, you have no income, so your excluded from the system, you no longer have a sustanable life, - example: the unemployed
Ok but there's more than one job out there. Just keep looking. Maybe learn a new skill. Maybe start your own company and create a job for yourself ... maybe even jobs for some of those unemployeds too! lol!
It takes work to keep people alive, and for every person unwilling to support himself there's someone else out there doing it for him. Mental Slavery? Is that when you convince someone that they owe you food and shelter in exhange for nothing? Just because you don't have it and they do?
i wonder why every capitalist country has an unemployment rate, my country has a 6%-7% anyways its not that easy to make your own company, its most likely to fail because you don't stand a chance against bigger companies, in the end you lose much more.
im not a communist sympisiser but i have to admit that there are many flawes in capitalism, im a just a student that has curiosity on these matters.
the unemployed are people who're looking for work but haven't found it yet. There'll always be ppl who're btwn jobs or taking a break from work. Nothing wrong with being unemployed as long as it's not a lifestyle. like drinking!:P
in USA the majority of people work for small companies. true most of them fail w/in two years, but no one's putting you against the wall for trying! mine has ten. my sister's is 2 including her & her boyfriend.
Everyone! Solutions! Read Sacred Economics by Charles Eisenstein. Look into the Trasition Town movement. We need to build networks to un-commidify our relationship to goods and services (the earth and each other).
zurieljoshua 3 weeks ago
that's like saying "which is best, doing the dishes or having sex?"
Shmee6000 1 month ago
We all live in the dual role as "Producer" and "Consumer". We must produce enough to consume what we feel is comfortable or socially appropriate. The problem with most Americans is that we want to Consume MORE than we are willing to Produce. (Hurray for Credit Cards?!)
Isn't Economics fun?
randy95023 1 month ago
@randy95023 the problem is that businesses want to pay college graduates a non-living wage.
scottandrewhutchins 3 weeks ago
Loaded question
cybersphere 1 month ago
What about working for what you want and getting what you need? I know people think of communism right away but maybe labeling everything doesn't work because it takes people away from logic. Sustenance is not as expensive as we make it out to be and really every person is just exploited into a life of repetitive work to supply someone else with something they don't REALLY want. As long as you can convince, you can do anything, it's all in your head really
Wutwut1n1 2 months ago 2
@Wutwut1n1 very well said :)
xplastilinaverdex 1 month ago
I think most people, when in a situation where they are encouraged to spontaneously answer the question posed here, tend to associate the word "work" - consciously or subconsciously - with forced labour and being exploited. I think this is the case because they feel deep down that in general, people are, to a greater or lesser extent, being unfairly exploited and oppressed in their jobs.
MrKanaletas 3 months ago 2
@MrKanaletas precisely :)
xplastilinaverdex 1 month ago
buen vídeo...que se que sabes español :)
Paseosinperro 3 months ago
@UtubeMyAccountName "that person speaking at the end" is noam chomsky. if you don't know him, do a bit of reading and then you can take that back.
and where is he saying anything about not producing?
JDArmstrong42 4 months ago
This is imbecilic.
You first have to produce something, in order for there to be something to be consumed.
...and by the way the person speaking at the end, is describing the free enterprise system.
UtubeMyAccountName 4 months ago
@UtubeMyAccountName thats correct, but to extend more into this look at the glowing eyeball behind a dollar bill inside of a triangle above the pyramid, that is the 3rd eye aka PINEAL GLAND. when a human being is not apart of the elite bloodline, and found sum kind of way to use their 3rd eye, the govt' sends the MIB after them and treat them as a alien, bcuz the pineal gland is a magic vessel in our body that allows man to do magic, technology,weaponry,tools,etc are made with the 3rd eye
insanebeatjunkie 1 month ago
@UtubeMyAccountName only those few represented on the dollar bill have the essence of all technology, a average joe cannot build technology from the ground up unless you are using magic. no amount of education will teach you this secret, if they did then their would be no use for a job when you finished school, you just find your own land live on it and create whatever the hell you wanted. last thing be on your mind was money
insanebeatjunkie 1 month ago
lol @ the idiot interviewed at 1:49
EconAtheist 4 months ago
It isn't that capitalism is a form of mental suicide, but rather that what comes after it is. Capitalism in its true form is a temporary boon that no other social configuration can equal the benefits of. Capitalism is always followed by entrenchment of established interests, stagnation of labor, capital and society, and ultimately degeneration into tyranny. What we're living in is not capitalism, but rather the ugly stage between it and natural tyranny.
MabusZero 4 months ago
it' all OTIS fault they're the elitists
boxermaf 4 months ago
I truly don't understand the point of this video. People would rather not work, shop, and pay the bills? I guess your point is that no one should work we should all shop, forget about paying our bills.
Only one problem Capitalism has to exist in order for one to shop. Capitalism has to exist in order to have debt. Someone MUST be able to produce a good in order for shopping to exist. This video actually advocates capitalism. LOL!
dynamitemike65 4 months ago
Our only point of power is where we work. It's time for workers of the whole world to walk out together on Profit. Jackdempseywriter.wordpress dot c-o-m
37Dionysos 4 months ago
which, "sudical mental slaves," disliked this vid? They must not realize they are slaves...SMH
blkgodus 4 months ago
Comment removed
blkgodus 4 months ago
Perhaps the point of the first half of the video is to point out the inconsistencies of peoples' answers to the questions. This is especially true of the second question. "Do you want to go to work...?" Most people hate what they do for their job. So, the answer is no. They do not go to work, as it currently stands, because they want to. The question needed to rephrased in order to get an honest answer...probably because they never really thought about it seriously.
bairn75 4 months ago
People only say things like this because most work is terrifying boring and unrewarding. People no longer feel like their work matters, it's more like whack-a-mole. A person with an education and opportunities to find work they find rewarding and interesting and can see the fruits of their labor (other than the actual pay) they are much more likely to want to work.
INatalkaI 5 months ago
@INatalkaI I disagree I love my work and I find it extremely rewarding. But if you asked me if I would rather shop or work, of course I'm going to choose shop.Shopping is a leisure activity. The question is misleading. The question should have been: Would you rather do with out because you have no money or would you rather work to earn money so that you could go shopping.?
dynamitemike65 4 months ago
@dynamitemike65 Not true, my friend. A gardner or farmer, an artist, a writer, a great cook...people who pursue their passions would choose our labor over shopping. To me, being engaged in writing is one of the highest pleasures. Shopping is a frivolous entertainment. The question is well put, but we can't see well outside the box we were socialised in. What if we organised around what we wanted to learn and achieve, not molded in school to fit like cogs into the machine?
zurieljoshua 2 months ago 7
@zurieljoshua Lucky people will pay you for it. I've written a novel and a half, five screenplays, and three stage plays. I have an award and a letter of recommendation, but I have yet to find anyone interested in producing or publishing my work. I have been struggling to get interviews in spite of having a master's degree, and I'm going to lose Internet access if I don't pay the bill by Monday, which I currently can't.
scottandrewhutchins 3 weeks ago
What do I find more satisfying? Working, for sure.
MrMZaccone 6 months ago
Perhaps one of the most intellectually dishonest and vapid videos I have ever seen.
friedmanjr 6 months ago
go to Hollywood and ask them! Or better still ask the politicians do they work for pay or the better of humanity?
linkingaj 6 months ago
Comment removed
linkingaj 6 months ago
"the only thing that will end wage slavery is Death " Not true onetruekeeper, one can have democratic workplaces to "put food on the table". Google for Miners EconomicDemocracy or for How the Miners Were Robbed 1907 (pamphlet) that and more at /economicdemocracy Dott org Slash analy.shtml (See also otherworld.swf great funny animation on our website). Communist dictators and Capitalist bosses agree that "those are the only two systems"Anything they agree about you Know must be a lie. See links
econdemocracy 7 months ago
Shopping? Moronic people.
PikPobedy 7 months ago
If I had enough money to live comfortably, I would still work. It depends on your education/connections/location for your "dream" job. I'm working towards that right now, so ideally I'm working in a "job" that I actually really enjoyed. All my previous jobs, I just loved.
ZSwierczynski 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
some of these people seem fucking retarded. no wonder they are slaves.
agents1986 8 months ago
The only thing that will end wage slavery is Death in my opinion. A dead person has no need for rent, food or any material thing. A dead person cannot be threatened or pressured to work against his or her will or better judgement. Money is useless to a dead person. There is no solution to the wage slavery condition imho. Most people are cursed to work like a slave till they die.
onetruekeeper 8 months ago
@onetruekeeper Technological advances make the above statement less harsh and intense...
Simboiss 7 months ago
lol these people are such airheads, can't even answer a question straight
zzzzJAGJEETzzzz 9 months ago
What is the point of this video? There's no such thing as a free lunch. You have to work for it because there are limited resources and getting those resources in the right place in the right form takes WORK.
Trimbler00 9 months ago
@Trimbler00 That's not the point.
Simboiss 8 months ago
@Simboiss Please, enlighten me... what is the point?
Trimbler00 8 months ago
i would advise everyone here to read:
ECONOMICS IN ONE LESSON by Henry Hazlitt.
be open minded and challenge your beliefs. see the amazon reviews
TrollForTuna 10 months ago
Groucho was a Marxist!
bapyou 11 months ago
This video shows us nothing! Name to me a civilization in all of history where people DIDN'T work to survive. That's why people work, from cavemen to Rome to America, work puts food on the table. Of course if you had enough money to live comfortably you wouldn't have a break-back job. Was Stalin busting his hump, or did he live lavishly?
moredoughnuts01 11 months ago
@moredoughnuts01 You're completely missing the point...
Simboiss 8 months ago
@Simboiss Yes, I'd like to know what the point is also.
moredoughnuts01 8 months ago
You can barely walk into a shopping district and expect people to answer 'working'.
TheCite 11 months ago
This is about semantics. There is nothing wrong with work. Work means using your muscles and brain in some activity. If you engage in some activity when you want because you want, then the work you do is not different from play. That's why when you have your own business, you don't even care how long you work or what time it is.
A job on the other hand is performing work under supervision and threath of being laid off. Which is definitely not fun.
commanderjohnkoenig 11 months ago 16
I don't like to shop. I get in and get out. The real question should be, "Would you rather work or better yourself through education and thought." Of course we are in the middle of a deliberate dumbing down campaign lead by the Texas School Board and their propaganda they insert into textbooks.
CaptHiltz 1 year ago 2
I really love the video. I know exactly what you mean by this. They're just programming us like little robots, more than just the need to survive, the ipods, the facebook, the "social norms", stereotypes, all of it. Groucho Marx is classic haha
RikJamezBich 1 year ago
Like many ancient kings or men of power, Bush was a terrorist, or is since he's still living. Very much a pot calling a kettle Judah.
RikJamezBich 1 year ago
capitalism?
its civilization.
when civilization was born, slavery was the placental fluid that oozed out. the hierarchy of civilization cannot exist without slavery.
donHooligan 1 year ago
@donHooligan This is the harsh reality. Humans have created a culture where slavery is a necessity. We are all slaves of civilization, it's just that we never call ourselves slaves. Civilization is the greatest evil of all.
gtrplyr5204 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@gtrplyr5204 "Civilization is the greatest evil of all"
i totally agree. civilization was a big mistake. it's time to get back on the right path.
time to remember how to live.
donHooligan 1 year ago
I agree that people, including myself, should take their lives into their own hands more, especially with work. This video points out people not doing that. this vid's position against capitalism, like the title suggested, consisted of these logical fallacies: Abstractness, Generalization, Sampling, degree, causation and "Ignoratio Elenchi" (arguing off the point). It missed the real problems w/ capitalism like equity bubbles, inherent inequality, the business cycle exc.
ricky95713 1 year ago
In psychology there's a term called "splitting" which relates to black and white thinking. There's also an interesting concept "conformational bias" where you set out to confirm what you already hold to be true. I would humbly point out that despite your outstanding dancing skills and great selection of Chompsky clips your personal reasoning depicted in this clip falls short of enlightenment;)
theeggwoman 1 year ago
Shopping causes nuclear war.
Elmore3141 1 year ago
People should stop buying things.
Elmore3141 1 year ago
Those two chicks around minute 3 got jedi mind fucked.
HigherPlanes 1 year ago
Fuck
I forgot what shopping means.
spilledinsanity 1 year ago
Which documentary is the "where people don't shop" bit taken from?
PersianPaladin 1 year ago
@PersianPaladin 'Surplus, Terrorized into being consummers'
4TT4CK 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@PersianPaladin Surplus:_Terrorized_into_Being_Consumers
4TT4CK 1 year ago
The Stravinsky music is cool!
TheSoJuicy 1 year ago
They all work in a friggin call center.
Popsfresh 1 year ago
Sweatshops....hmmm...are capitalists the owner of those...oh no, wait a minute...governments own sweatshops! Karl Marx's standards of employment, all you need is food, water, and shelter....like a horse or a donkey! Sounds much better than working in an air conditioned office.
riverlioness 1 year ago
@riverlioness
Another fucking idiotic remark brought to you by the man I name "The Janitor". Must be nice being in a air conditioned bathroom for work. Capitalists do own sweat shops the moment they buy the products from the sweat shops because it's cheap and made by children and slaves.Capitalists will take money from the poor and give into their own pockets it's like going into a salvation army and robbing them when your a billionaire. Look at BP and the crisis down in Gulf for a example.
NewRevolutionLeader 1 year ago
@NewRevolutionLeader
A lioness is not a male. An ad hominem attack, how ego defensive. Not exactly into Socrates' philosophy of not admitting you don't know everything, eh? I am taking the road less traveled, and ignoring your personal attacks.
BP is it's own industry. Some capitalists are eco friendly. Generalization is a fallacy as well. Generalization makes everyone in a group pay for its worst, fueling ethnocentricity.
Have you heard of philanthropy?
riverlioness 1 year ago
@riverlioness
I never had anything in my comment about a lioness see that's what drugs will do to you idiot. I stand by my attack "Janitor" and will continue to. Socrates is a old pile of bones whos dead and didn't know half as much as I do. You ignore my personal attacks about you mopping up the school bathroom? BP are just as greedy as any oil company and if you say oil companies are not greedy your even more of a dumbass. Capitalism has failed the world and anyone with a brain knows it.
NewRevolutionLeader 1 year ago
@NewRevolutionLeader
BP is an oil company! British Petroleum! How did you come to the assumption I was defending oil company greed? I nearly cried out "vive le alternate fuel".
Where do you think green energy comes from? Corporations that don't cause ecological disasters produce it!
You called me a man, remember? My username is obviously female. Riverlioness. A lioness is a female lion, sheisskopf.
Do not insult Socrates in my presence again.
riverlioness 1 year ago
@riverlioness
For all I know it's your name not your gender so I can give a shit less.Socrates was a old bag of shit who knew less than we all know today so I'll insult him when I please. I'm done talking to a conservative nut job who knows not a damn thing about progressing through the future without being a slave to a form of economics that rewards greed and buys off our politicians WHICH I STILL THINK SHOULD BE ILLEGAL. British Petroleum is a bunch of greedy assholes who deserve to burn.
NewRevolutionLeader 1 year ago
@NewRevolutionLeader
I am not a conservative! I am neither on the left nor right side of political insanity. This is the "either-or false dilemma". You are full of fallacies!
Fuck Karl Marx. Marx never met a shot glass he didn't like. Ludwig Von Mises kicked his ass at economics. Marx read one economic theory in his life! It was difficult reading through the vodka induced fog.
Fuck Francis Galton as well. The arrogant aristocratic leach. Ego centricism isn't a science!
riverlioness 1 year ago
@NewRevolutionLeader
You weren't paying attention to my username, were you? You simply made an assumption I am a man. This was my point.
Knowledge is not obtained through assumption. Confidence is fine, but over confidence borders on mental lethargy.
You assumed I would not read into your ego defense mechanisms, and dare to play mental chess with you, did you not? "For all I know it's your name not your gender" is defensive.
riverlioness 1 year ago
@NewRevolutionLeader Wait, so Capitalists are to blame for buying products from Communist countries with sweat shops? You are blaming Capitalists because Communists have sweat shops. Hu Jintao, by the way, is the world's most powerful man, according to Forbes, and Castro is reportedly worth $550 million. Go live in Cuba or China if they have it better.
moredoughnuts01 8 months ago
@moredoughnuts01 Forgive me if I am misinterpreting having only caught this part of your conversation. But aren't countries engaged in capitalist ventures i.e selling products to other nations, not communist but capitalist? I don't think you can call China communist. It may have started there, but it is actually one of the most successful capitalist societies today. (successful based on a purely economic standard) Not better in quality of life etc.
ymatmband 8 months ago 3
Comment removed
riverlioness 1 year ago
"Capitalism" gave us the internet, you dumbass.
alphecca2539 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@alphecca2539"Capitalism" gave us the internet, you dumbass."
Nomination for the most moronic post on youtube.
nurktwin1960 1 year ago
I don't see how this video has to do with the economic system known as capitalism.
SENTRY000 1 year ago
Great video mr, keep up the good work
seanyzep 1 year ago 2
Capitalism is the best system ever. The problem is the people that choose to destroy the environment instead of protect it. It is always mans fault. Man is flawed. Capitalism is not bad, it has just not been run wisely.
MotionFrequency 1 year ago
capitalism is sucking right now cause our socialist government takes 50% of our money! We would be 50% more richer 50% more free to do what we want to do or would only have to work HALF as much - if we weren't under a socialist government. This video starts"Philosophizes in mid stream" with out an understanding of our current situation and How we got here.
TheGodofAtheists 1 year ago
@TheGodofAtheists
Weve never had a purely Capitalistic society, if we had, you would see that FRee Market equilibrium does indeed work. The problem isnt capitalism, the problem is an illegitimate IRS and being taxed to death along with govt interference in corporations. Take govt out of the picture and get rid of involuntary taxes and these problems would cease.
N1k1mon 1 year ago
You cannot say; because capitalism creates hierarches it is not free. Freedom has no 'values' as such: freedom means voluntary exchange and lack of coercion, true freedom may never exist but it means property rights to form SOCIETY and income through exchange, heterogeneity and inequality in the division of labour-and attempts to destroy such hierarchy must use force and therefore reject liberty.
Economic calculation is impossible without exchange therefore socialism=starvation
Nintendomanwill 1 year ago
Socialism is not starvation if done correctly and by the way let me break down capitalism for you. Capitalism creates billionaires who in turn want to generate more profit so they buy off media and government. These media and government brainwash the country into thinking one minded (which is not free thinking which built this country). These brainwashed people buy products and health care from people who are frauds and corrupt our government. They send jobs overseas and then you have traitors.
NewRevolutionLeader 1 year ago
Therefore Capitalists=Traitors
If you do not believe me just ask the Chinese they know all about these traitors and love their money for THEIR BANKS.
NewRevolutionLeader 1 year ago
@NewRevolutionLeader
I suggest you look over your posts and see the strawman myth you've made of capitalism. You've equated Contract V Coercion with theft of taxpayers money, mandate of 'public' projects and profits to those industries running the Collectivist projects, this is illicit profit through force whereas productivity and wealth ensure that contractual societies prosper; so you've equated the tyranny and penury of state socialism with capitalism and Rule of Law of Contract V Coercion.
Nintendomanwill 1 year ago
Capitalism equals garbage in simple PLAIN ENGLISH. Capitalism failed no different than socialism or communism. Capitalism is made up of the rich minority ruling the country and making the markets unregulated and using that to commit fraud. If you haven't noticed that's how we have lobbyist.
NewRevolutionLeader 1 year ago
You are showing that you haven't understood a word I said nor used any substance in your logical process. You're just another arrogant individual who does not respect reason nor considers that those who speak with substance have the full reason of truth and realisation as opposed to guessing at what one has neither studied nor intuitively understood.
Why not define what is government?
Now do the same for morality, choice, profit and then for police, compulsion, rule.
What is law or liberty?
Nintendomanwill 1 year ago
Law of liberty is not important in economics idiot and democratic government is a governing body to represent the people.This is NOT WHAT WE HAVE IN AMERICAN NOW or for the last few decades. Did you realize the tax on the rich about 4 or 5 decades ago was 90 percent?Then as big corporations got power they paid off legislating bodies of government in attempt to lower taxes and make it easier on THEM.This left us with job loses overseas and corrupted government this is capitalism at it's finest.
NewRevolutionLeader 1 year ago
I could tell that you were someone who doesn't know anything much of what he speaks from the minute you started babbling nonsense at me.
For example, the tax on the rich being so high: what came of that?
And what was before such high tax?
You need to develop some maturity and intellectual rigour before I can even BEGIN to engage with you through this way of debating on comments, which require brevity not sufficient to contain all that you need to learn about these topics of economics&morality
Nintendomanwill 1 year ago
Don't be jealous that I proved capitalism wrong in such simple forms of communication. Remember big words and proper knowledge does not conquere real common sense. Go find a nice capitalists to date and I mean MAN to find.
NewRevolutionLeader 1 year ago
"proper knowledge does not conquere real common sense"
Guess what, proper (appropriate) knowledge DOES conquere (conquer) so-called common-sense especially if that common-sense is based on ignorance, of empirical evidence and on illogical misconstruction from absent or bad intuition.
Go find some non-socialists so that you can have your mind expanded by rational discussion. I'm not going to try because you're not even worthy of a sensible discussion, treating these issues with such flippancy.
Nintendomanwill 1 year ago
@NewRevolutionLeader
And China is free? The Ceo is worse than the government bully, you say? Do you really believe the communist tribe Noam Chomsky promises won't be taken over by another Lenin? Ha! You are proposing self-servitude because you don't enjoy your work. Find a new line of work---problem solved....once you are owned by the iron fist of communism....there is no quitting! There is no putting in a resume elsewhere. You'll wish you were back on your cell phone
riverlioness 1 year ago
@riverlioness
Your a fucking idiot and I do not have work I go to college right now and I love what I am going to college for. Lenin is dead, communism works if done properly perfect example is China (our enemies) but I do not condone communism JUST CERTAIN PARTS OF IT mainly the way the economics are ran. You can keep your day job don't worry I'm sure not many Janitors love their job as much as you do.Apparently there is quitting because last time I checked there is a thing called revolution.
NewRevolutionLeader 1 year ago
I shop therefore I am
bergweg 1 year ago
Noam Chomsky is describing the modes of production defined in Philosophy: Action, Work, Labor. Differs from Arendt.
Labor-necessary to maintain life.
Action-intrinsic to humanity, intimate to a person, performed because of an interest.
Work-foreign to humanity, strange to a person, performed because it is required.
He concludes, Society sucks when civilization is constructed from the product of Work, we should look for Labor or Action. He adds it's better to make than to just consume.
Ranger4564 1 year ago
who is that guy giving that speech at the end
DR4GU2H3LL 1 year ago
Noam Chomsky. Although that sounds like his "quoting voice".
SangsungMeansToCome 1 year ago
Well done! And also very depressing! We are not an evolved human race. We are something so pathetic that I can't find the right words to explain it.
rhbxyz 1 year ago
Argeed!
DR4GU2H3LL 1 year ago
@MysticKevin10 Very true! It would not have been unjust if one would be offered life in capitalist or an alternative society, but one is not. Without any other choice, in order to survive the only option is to work jobs you don't necessarily like and in that logic jobs are slavery. Thank you MysticKevin10, really. I was just trying to tell maybe a different view on the topic and hearing what people have to say about it.
Please forgive me for my unusual English.
karelhof13 2 years ago
Working isn't compulsory, neither is surviving. To survive one will always have to make efforts. Capitalism, no matter how unfair, is a vehicle that allows us to survive by sharing our products in a way so that we do not have to produce everything we need ourselves (to be able to buy what one does not produce). What is not necessary however is buying more than one needs, and having to work for that. That's the difference between working to shop, or working to pay the bills.
Please disagree
karelhof13 2 years ago
@karelhof13
"our products" ?????
canaan1967 2 years ago 2
I don't like neither of the two (shopping or labouring) :)
bergweg 2 years ago
2:50 fucking ape
jabre12 2 years ago
From 6:25 to the end, who is the man talking ?
Can you give me more info on the lecture, please ?
dusteroo 2 years ago
dusteroo, sounds like Noam Chomsky.
10toesdown 2 years ago
thanks.
you are right.
I would love to know where I can get a copy of this quote; an mp3, or to know what book it's quoted from.
it was so brilliant.
any help would be so appreciated ~
dusteroo 2 years ago
In socialism the hard-working do not support the lazy and unambitious! In Parecon (what I think is the best and most practical theory for an anarchist (libertarian socialist) society remuneration is for effort and sacrifice - obviously with roofs on how much extra people can earn to prevent a race to the bottom. Actually in capitalism the hard-working working class support the managers who do not do their own work but instead profit off the work of others.
robbfuckingflynn 2 years ago
ive worked labour 30yrs but for myself. ive seen bosses literally debase their employees in front of ppl for mistakes on the job. screaming fuck you!!! at them. no man or woman shud ever take that. and thats why ive been lucky enuf to work for myself as hard as its been.
adzug 2 years ago
"You cant blame capitalism because we haven't had real capitalism" - Dr. Ron Paul
Are you telling me you prefer socialism where the hard-working support the lazy and unambitious???
803honda 2 years ago
funny thats always the knock and theres some truthin it but, sweeden, norway denmark, these countries have a higher standard of living than the usa. so the question is , what are the overall positives and negatives to any system and are they always the same in differant countries?
adzug 2 years ago
I assure you they are not the same in all countries. The district of corruption and Britan produce some of the most sinister and greedy paracites known to man.
You can never have real capitalism or real socialism in the federally controlled states. If you want prosperity the first step is to get the federals out the picture and return ALL rights to the states where things are on a smaller scale and more manageable.
803honda 2 years ago
ok only prob is that when capitalism gets to big, when corporations get as powerful as govt small biz and your average worker gets screwd cuz the ultimate purpose of biz is profit, even at the expense of workers. i want neither govt or big biz on my back
adzug 2 years ago
At the federal level bribery and corporate favoratism are unstoppable however I believe If things were brought down to a much smaller scale(1/50 smaller) things would be more easily controlled. The union is simply too large to operate as one single country. This is not what our founders had in mind.
803honda 2 years ago
the founders did have probs with the states powers tho. things like differant money for differant states and quibbles about how to run this state opposed to that state so that interstate issues (like commerce) run smoothly. i know what you mean tho, the further away the less care is involved
adzug 2 years ago
Believe what you will, but Ron Paul is spot-on about that quote.
dusteroo 2 years ago
Are you saying that doesn't happen currently? In regards to private ownership and management, and yes you can put the blame on that. I think this video shows accurately that few have a real incentive to work.
catbuffalo 2 years ago
They have no insentive to work for creeps who's only motive is profit, not even for good, but to stay afloat and harm competitors.
success is trashing markets and other workers for the boss's creed of compete! compete! compete! fuck you cunt, compete! you piece of shit moron, compte!
go to fucking war, compete!
kill the weak, compete!
end welfate, compete!
let the old and infirm starve, compete!
fucking moron.
boss arse sucker.
marsCubed 2 years ago 21
@marsCubed
Wow somebody came late to the conversation and totally misinterpreted my post.
catbuffalo 1 year ago
This is the 2008 'Stupid Video of the Year'.
iNsyNR8R 2 years ago
A lot of people would be happy just to shop for work.
suckfist 2 years ago
Both are a drag. 90% of the time, shopping IS work for me, and always has been since my mom dragged me to the clothes store when i was young
zachkritzer 2 years ago
Only the anarchist maintains in a state of nature there is organisation and mutual aid. Hobbes conversely argues life is "nasty, solitary, brutish and short". Hence we form a society.
It seems to me your argueing all authority is illegitimate. << I may be wrong but that's how it seems to me. Personally out of logic and reason and not the fact I'm a sheep or slave, anarchism in its intended form is more unworkable then communism.
I'd prefere capitalism in a liberal democracy anyday.
mit181 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Only the anarchist would make the distinction of having to work for a living and having to work for a boss. They are in any other socio-economic structure realistically the same thing. I work to survive for myself in a state of nature. I work for others to survive in a societal structure. The only difference is in the latter I have a master whereas in the former I have none, but in freeing myself of a master therefore hierachy therefore society I lose justice, protection, rights, oppurtunities..
mit181 2 years ago
that was one of the arguments used to defend chattel slavery.
No one is arguing against organization and mutual aid -- the normal state of things in nature. The argument is against illegitimate authority
mr1001nights 2 years ago 16
If you ask certain questions you get certain answers.
Now go to a university, pressure group, charity, school or police force and ask them why they work.
Sure all will say they work to pay the bills, but they have reasons apart from money for their jobs.
Like creativity, educating, enforcing justice.
Surely a more relevant question is not why do you work, but why have you chosen the work in which your employed.
That is not slavery unless work per se is slavery.
mit181 2 years ago
u should not confuse the subjection of man to nature (having to work for a living) w/the subjection of man to man (having to work for a boss). Apologists for chattel slavery similarly said "well, the slave has to work anyway to survive". Both wage and chattel slaves have to work for a boss under threat of starvation. In colonial Brazil chattel slaves could buy their own freedom&become self-employed, businessmen or slaveowners. Social mobility doesnt justify a "work for a boss or else" status quo
mr1001nights 2 years ago 12
Social mobility would create a "work for a boss or else" status quo. If there's a mobility there's a hierachy, if there's a hierachy there's a boss and a worker. That is what I think your saying.
In my opinion you've assumed that simply working for a boss makes you a slave. A slave has no rights; an employee does. A slave has no wages, an employee does. A slave cannot choose his work, a charity worker can.
Even in a capitalist system we have freedoms that slaves could never enjoy.
mit181 2 years ago
You confuse familiarity with force. No one here is forced to work for a boss or else face starvation. There are other ways to make money if one does not want a direct boss. There are ways to survive if one chooses neither. Yes the typical model is get a job, work, even if you hate it, work several jobs if need be. They aren't forced to do that, they simply choose a path that seems the most concrete and familiar. Besides anyone who says "wage slave" has never known actual slavery.
jdlund 2 years ago
@mr1001nights In a capitalist society, you can become your own boss. You can live on your own land and produce enough to not have to work for anyone else, or you can employ others if you wish. How is this notion of Capitalistic Slavery any different that Communist Slavery, except that you get to choose your career?
moredoughnuts01 11 months ago
@moredoughnuts01 In a true communist society, the questions of property simply disappear. You have the freedom to think about other things than keeping your possessions safe.
Simboiss 8 months ago
about 40% of the working americans are having strong symptoms of burnout syndrome, because they work to hard and long. the cause of that is the non controll over the free marked.
Dunaldango 2 years ago
I am wage slave
pr0gm3r 2 years ago
Tragic.A whole bunch of people readily admitting that they are wasting their lives..the freaky thing is they all seem to think its hilarious!
Its NOT O.K to not enjoy your work.The girl who was sacked for admitting (on facebook) that she was bored with her job is lucky...she may actually end up finding her true vocation.
some employment that
yvadmil 2 years ago
I wonder about the line of questioning at the begining, out of the two options the choice is obvious but this in no way relates to shopping as a be all end all of existence in modern capitalism, there are lot's of things people like more than shopping. as well it's not as if people are taught to think of work in the creative artistic sense proposed at the end of the video.
McOath 3 years ago
What a fkn waste!So many ppl spending the majority of their time doing something they gain little or no satisfaction from. Often their hard work doesn't add much 2 community either, more chance of boss using the 'surplus value' he takes in a way that has a negative impact.
As long as we are free 2 buy stuff b4 we realise we dont need or want most of it or that we r misled or delude ourselves about what these consumer goods can do 4 us we will be happy little wage-slaves.
I Shop, therefore i am
DistortedDiagnosis 3 years ago
What if workers get a % of the daily earnings of the shop not a fixed wage.
12643 3 years ago
that'd be an improvement. Self-management would probably entail a pretty equal distribution of money, perhaps with remuneration according to either need or effort and sacrifice.
mr1001nights 3 years ago
Yes it would be improvement I think to get a %, I only mentioned it becuase myself I do not live a fixed wage. I run my own small business (with no employees) and feel the highs and lows day by day. But I'm not fixed to any limit except the success of my business. I dont feel like a slave to fixed income.
12643 3 years ago
well, u see, you're not a capitalist because you don't have a staff of wage laborers u exploit. The defining characteristic of capitalism is the boss-employee hierarchical, exploitative relationship. Now, a complex industrial economy can't be run only by self-employed individuals or small businesses like yours. You need mass production and large industries. If workers & communities affected could participate in the management of industry, many problems could be solved, not only remuneration.
mr1001nights 3 years ago
:sigh: The defining characteristic of capitalism is the free exchange of values. 12643 is exercising capitalism because he his exchanging his time and labor for running a business that brings him a profit. The economy could be run by small businesses, but it isn't because mass production has provided better service for consumers.
kingaa9818 3 years ago
On the contrary, the defining characteristic of capitalism is wage slavery: people having to work for a boss under threat of starvation, poverty or social stigma. Read the wikipedia article on wage slavery and you'll understand
mr1001nights 3 years ago
u can either live off the land and work for yourself under the threat of starvation, or u can live in society and work for a company/business under the threat of starvation. the more free and dignified thing to do is to live off the land and work for yourself and only yourself..but, with industrial society, there are so many people, there needs to be shops and stores. and those shops and stores need someone to run them, and someone to work in them..so, what do u suggest?
itzahazylife 2 years ago
Self-management
mr1001nights 2 years ago
the only other possible alternative is self sustaining communities where everyone works for the community. every family is equal, and every family puts in work for the whole. the capitalist structure has obviously been established without the common mans dignity and well being as a top priority. it's set up for elitist priority. we are slaves to our higher ups expectations and demands. i don't see a way out of it..currently, everyone is conditioned and complacent with society as it is.
itzahazylife 2 years ago
As usual, this discussion suffers from undefined terms.
We could say that capitalism has never existed, or that every economy in history has been capitalist, simply by playing with the definition.
vktrsx 3 years ago
get on the soapbox and preach, brother!
gjamin 3 years ago
You labor to enjoy the fruit thereof. Your labor is a calculated action designed to endure hardship in order to bring about a state that is superior to what would have existed otherwise. The quantity of labor that would be needed to be self-sufficient is greater than the quantity required to reach the same end by engaging in trade. Money is the most efficient means of exchange. You labor for money and use money to generate a superior personal economic state. This is the essence of a wage.
JanxMan 3 years ago
The philosophy you are presenting is rooted in the childish belief that there is some way of making the toil of labor vanish altogether. This is, of course, economic nonsense.
These silly interviews only show that people prefer leisure to labor itself, but that they work proves that they prefer the fruits of their labor to leisure.
The laborer is no more a slave to his employer by working for a wage than a caveman was a slave to nature by hunting for food.
JanxMan 3 years ago
A slave who i lock in a cage in my basement is the same as you, because you're a slave to your need to work to subsist. So, therefore locking people in my basement is perfectly fine. As slavery is slavery is slavery (according to you).
Jrotten11 3 years ago
I don't think he was claiming that slavery was acceptable. Quite the opposite. He was just openning the eyes of some blind consumers who are slaves to their desires.
cclodfe 3 years ago
This really shows how little people think about their own slavery.
tomwash1 3 years ago
that's what we do in the west, eagerly buy our own slavery
AmericaFell 3 years ago 2
I buy as little as possible in order to work as little as possible. I haven't worked in 3 years or so. My clothes show this...
BayerLexan 3 years ago 2
get rid of capitalism you don't need the master to make run the house!!!
torrac2 3 years ago
these people are such consumerism slaves
kieronj 3 years ago
I dont think communism is the idea that even people who dont work get paid. Its that everyone works and everyone gets enough to live. Because, face it, if the rich didnt exist there would be alot more for everyone else.
zapata420 3 years ago 6
Communism simply changes who is rich and who isn't. The populace still are poor, but in communism they have no opportunity for advancement while government officials and their special groups sit on top like fatcats. History in many different countries has shown us that communism simply does not work- it destroys the countries people were hoping to save. Communism does, however, work in smaller groups of people when entrance (and exit) from the group is totally voluntary. You can look at...
saoirsecaesar 3 years ago
various tribal groups (not all are communist, but many are), or communes here in America and abroad, to see examples of this. Also, concepts like sharing and "spreading the wealth" are common in capitalist countries like the U.S. However, these traits are voluntary, and thus can truly be from the heart instead of compulsory.
saoirsecaesar 3 years ago
If by communism you mean the post-lenin soviet union then i agree. But if you mean real communism like the paris commune then i strongly disagree.
zapata420 3 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
what is the black and white movie???
fjaoaoaoao 3 years ago
So what is the alternative?
saoirsecaesar 3 years ago
don't support the system, come together, destroy this house of cards establishments
ink24571 3 years ago
And erect what in its place? It would be entirely irresponsible to destroy something unless we had a suitable (workable) replacement. A big problem I find in idealistic people is that many of them know what they are "against" without knowing what they are "for". It's a trap that essentially is the culmination of mindless rebellion. Gotta know what you are "for" (and how to achieve it) if you want to effect any positive, lasting change in anything!
saoirsecaesar 3 years ago
very clever :)
wushuCross 3 years ago
Don't wanna go to work...you get demoted. The military provides jobs, housing, healthcare, right?! They need food, clothes, entertainment, etc. The only difference is that you don't have to go to war. Giving people something when they're not even trying is ridiculous.
cyphi1 3 years ago
if all people liked their jobs they'd still expect to be paid wouldn't they? So what's the real problem here? that people don't go for jobs they like?
capitalism doesn't force anyone to do anything. the nature of the existence of human life is that if you want something (like shopping) you have to do something to get it (like make money).
Last I checked McDonald's and Walmart weren't kidnapping people and forcing them to work under the compulsion of a whip.
natdavi 3 years ago
but there is a problem.... if you don't have a job, you have no income, so your excluded from the system, you no longer have a sustanable life, - example: the unemployed
Anubis0991 3 years ago
Ok but there's more than one job out there. Just keep looking. Maybe learn a new skill. Maybe start your own company and create a job for yourself ... maybe even jobs for some of those unemployeds too! lol!
It takes work to keep people alive, and for every person unwilling to support himself there's someone else out there doing it for him. Mental Slavery? Is that when you convince someone that they owe you food and shelter in exhange for nothing? Just because you don't have it and they do?
natdavi 3 years ago
i wonder why every capitalist country has an unemployment rate, my country has a 6%-7% anyways its not that easy to make your own company, its most likely to fail because you don't stand a chance against bigger companies, in the end you lose much more.
im not a communist sympisiser but i have to admit that there are many flawes in capitalism, im a just a student that has curiosity on these matters.
Anubis0991 3 years ago
the unemployed are people who're looking for work but haven't found it yet. There'll always be ppl who're btwn jobs or taking a break from work. Nothing wrong with being unemployed as long as it's not a lifestyle. like drinking!:P
in USA the majority of people work for small companies. true most of them fail w/in two years, but no one's putting you against the wall for trying! mine has ten. my sister's is 2 including her & her boyfriend.
natdavi 3 years ago