Use a rotating tether instead of a fixed one. We can build it now with existing fibres. 30 minutes to orbit instead of days or weeks. A fresh payload every 90 minutes instead of days or weeks. Can deorbit payloads without a heatsheild. google Momentum Exchange Tether.
solar power is still so inefficient and that is going to limit the use of it in the assent up to space methinks. good video tho, so sad that we are not making the only logical next move a reality RIGHT NOW, bailing out shitty banks and car companies is more important than space... no!
Space elevators in principle are efficient, cost effective and scalable way of reaching beyond LEO. You literally could have the solar system at you finger tips; plus the equity in a long utility structure and return of materials, this make space based manufacture more competitive than on Earth. The more uses you get on it the cheaper it gets.Of course... the engineering to make a space elevator... Interstellar light sails could follow... 99% light speed and the Universe is your tourist trap!
this just doesn't seem possible. the ribbon is suppose to reach 22 thousand miles into space. I don't think people are conceptualising just how far that is. The Earth is 7 thousand miles in diameter (rounding up), so the length of the elevator will be three times the diameter of Earth. Wow! On another point, why are they messing with laser power to boost the capsules? Why not a nuclear reactor? Far more dependable and cheaper it would seem to me.
Very true about the length ... it would have to be unbelievably long, but that is the plan none the less. As for nuclear reactors ... it is my understanding that not only is this not safe (especially when talking about a three-day trip with people in close proximity), beamed power is cleaner, cheaper, and a lot more light weight. The idea here is to replace rockets, which are using expensive and heavy fuel. The use of an on-board reactor would be counter productive and counter-intuitive.
Nuclear power submarine tight self contained environment, capable of reprocessing air, water and lifting heavy loads. US navy has operated them for 47 years with a clean record. Gov has spend over 100 billion on SDI and still can't shoot down an ICBM. I think NASA hates it because its not green, its not PC. Then again, if they can build a 22 thousand mile ribbon, maybe thay can build a laser that can continuously hit a moving target for 3 days.
Good point re: a small space + people + nuclear power. I do think that there is a huge difference between a floating sub and a small climber trying to break out of the atmosphere. As for accurately beamed power over a long period of time, that's exactly what the Space Elevator Games are all about. If you look at the progress made by the under-funded independent teams in only 2.5 years, they're on their way! Keep your eye pealed for our documentary!
I wish you the best of luck. I'll be first in line to buy a ticket if it ever gets off the ground. Tens of thousands of sailors have been working on hundreds of navel vessels for decades without incident. Your right about it being costly that's why you don't see commercial cargo vessels using it, except for Russian Ice Breakers. In that application, the economics work.
@bitterjester Carbon nano tubes are 20 times more conductive than copper so wouldn't it be easier to send electricity through the ribbon? Building a ribbon 20+ thousand miles long seems preposterous. Why couldn't we build a ribbon that's maybe 50 or 100 miles long with a counterweight on the end and let capsules ride to the top and fling them into space? By adjusting the speed of the release and at what point on the ribbon they release, we could put capsules in orbit or fling them to Mars.
There's a Dutch saying: ''een ketting is maar zo sterk als de zwakste schakel''. Don't know the Englisch equivalent. Losely translated: '' a chain is but so strong as it's weakest link''. 36.000 km of cable and it has to be equally strong in every milimeter of it... now that's a challange!
@billgames so at this point we can asking our selfs why the ribbon should be son long. About the point that you are asking why they want to use a laser ,there was a reason but i forgot it , but we can search for it online i think. A nuclear reactor is always a littlebit dangerous we already try to leave nuclear energy behind us. ( i hope you all understand me , english isnt my motherlanguage)
@billgames Air distance from San Francisco to London = ~5,300 miles. A nonstop flight takes 10 hours at a cruising speed of 530 mph. If the elevator goes at that speed (I see no reason why it couldn't), it would do 22K in 41-1/2 hours; a train from SF to Chicago takes 50 hours. At just 200 mph, the speed of a (really) fast car, it would take about 4-1/2 days, roughly a cruise from SF (guess where I live) to Hawaii. With travel pillows and enough shrimp cocktails, it should be no problem.
@billgames It's only a design, wer'e talking about 30+ years to start building it. Anyways, the better design that most people don't talk about is actually using the carbon nanotubes conductivity as the power source. You can just send the electricity through them since carbon has a great conductivity. Or make a second nanotube structure to power it and have one structure to be climbed. Another thing about reactors is WEIGHT. way too much weight and not safe!
@Superjombombo1 A nuclear power car would work, but obviously sending electricity through the line is a way better idea. Instead of 22 thousand mile cable, how about a couple of hundred miles long? You'd have to power up the line for a ways, but pretty soon you'd get some serious momentum. You'd be flung into space the moment you let go. You could release from the line at lower altitudes to achieve a desired orbit. Might require some rocket burn to get the orbit stable.
@Superjombombo1 A nuclear power car would work, but obviously sending electricity through the line is a way better idea. Instead of 22 thousand mile cable, how about a couple of hundred miles long? You'd have to power up the line for a ways, but pretty soon you'd get some serious momentum. You'd be flung into space the moment you let go. You could release from the line at lower altitudes to achieve a desired orbit. Might require some rocket burn to get the orbit stable.
@Superjombombo1 A nuclear power car would work, but obviously sending electricity through he line is a way better idea. Instead of 22 thousand mile cable, what if the cable was a couple of hundred miles long? You'd have to power up the line for a ways, but pretty soon you'd get some serious momentum. You'd be flung into space the moment you let go. You could release from the line at lower altitudes to achieve a desired orbit. Might require some rocket burn to get the orbit stable.
@Superjombombo1 I still think its just too unsafe. See the nuclear reactors in japan. Those are just effected by an earthquake and still they find radioactive material all the way in the US even though its minute amounts. Imagine a giant nuclear reactor malfunctioning and shooting radioactive material all over the earth. It's just not safe to launch reactors with enough power to lift off itself +more....over and over again. Nuclear reactors also cost a shiton elevator is roughly 10-15bil$ estima
Yes. Just like the White House. Nuclear reactors. The Vatican. Hell, so what?
Not even the Twin Towers really got attacked, they had to make a phoney false flag. And those were standing right in the middle of a city, not on some military facility (as the elevator will be).
Terrorism is a smoke screen. Overrated. They could take out any nuclear reactor and destroy the US. They don't. It's just an Emmanuel Goldstein, nothing more.
@disal1991 Of course it would, just like many other things. Also a plane or space debris hitting it would be bad. But Im sure they would consider those options and the surface access would be somewhere really secure. I think they even suggested putting it in the ocean on like a oil platform type of thing. Like somewhere in the Gulf of Mexico would be good and they would also have that place heavily guarded.
Yes, I agree, but it would have to be surrounded by metal framework. That would at least stop some of the debris coming at it, wouldn't it?
Another option is to not build one at all, just make better space ships with more efficient engines like anti-matter fusion reactors. What do you think?
@disal1991 Yea I definetly agree with better space ships too. Which will happen when they find better tech also. And for the elevator I was thinking that they could protect by stopping projectiles before they even hit it. Like shooting projectiles with something idk. Or at least deflect objects. I know the military is working on things like that for vehicles, and they are building lasers to stop missiles, but either way they go it will take time to research. they could have plane/shuttle
Lol yea world peace would be much better. I am republican too. Yea if russia and china would stop being so annoying lol. If they could one day share ours and pretty much europes values of a free people; that would be amazing. I think there will always be a threat with some of the extreme islamics tho. Lol if russia and china and us were allied up along with all the other allies japan, uk, ect, we could defend against terror and then advance I guess in tech and other stuff that would be cool lol
I agree with your plan, but only if it would actually come to fruition! Here is the greatest alliance we could ever have: United States of Japan United States of China United States of Russia United States of Britain United States of Canada United States of America United States of Africa United States of Mexico United States of Australia These would be awsome! When we get into space and start colonizing other planets we could call our selves: United Planets Space Command What do you think?
Lol, United Planets Space Command, that might work out. I agree with you on all the countries. I think all of Europe should be a part too. They are pretty good with technology. Mexico and Africa lol they would be good if they became more developed. If money wasn't a big problem then we could see more things now. This alliance of countries will not happen for a while, if it even does happen lol. I think it might be a competition for colonization land. Idk, though, but yea China and Russia
Japan definetly, I think the best would be USA, Japan, China, Russia, European Union, Canada, Australia, South Korea, and Israel, also maybe Indian too because they have a space program, but idk lol the indians seem wierd to me. Pretty much all the people who share the International Space Station. The high tech. countries and the lands of the free, if Russia and China would change and stop being douchebags, lol. All of us we destroy any terror problem that threatened us and
look up aero gels, nasa use them already to protect the international space station if im correct, very good at stopping space debris.. probably not so good against planes though.
What about the oscillations of such a structure? Lower ~100km would slashed by winds and definitely the whole "string" would have lots of vibrational modes - lateral, longitudinal and even torsional.
Not that I'm not a fan of this, but the problem of oscillations seem unsurmountable to me. Since most of the tether would be in vacuum, there will be nothing to damp the oscillations. For the possible outcome of undamped oscillations see the fate of the Tacoma Narrows bridge.
very cool, but i would like to see a space elevator instaed. If we had enough space elevators we would have an enormous fleet of ships in a about 150 years. what do you say?
Actually, it's my understanding that a carbon nanotube cable has an obscenely high tensile strength ... but not so much in the way of cutting the ribbon from edge to edge. A swiftly-moving bird might be enough to take the thing down, much less an airplane.
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Use a rotating tether instead of a fixed one. We can build it now with existing fibres. 30 minutes to orbit instead of days or weeks. A fresh payload every 90 minutes instead of days or weeks. Can deorbit payloads without a heatsheild. google Momentum Exchange Tether.
gasdive 1 month ago
Hey all you guys at MIT. The Orion project > anything you will ever do.
Pimp1nSmurf 6 months ago
I'd hate to be the astronaut in Low level orbit, trying to avoid that hard ribbon travelling at 17,500 miles per hour.
matthewakian2 6 months ago
solar power is still so inefficient and that is going to limit the use of it in the assent up to space methinks. good video tho, so sad that we are not making the only logical next move a reality RIGHT NOW, bailing out shitty banks and car companies is more important than space... no!
kingofae 8 months ago
Space elevators in principle are efficient, cost effective and scalable way of reaching beyond LEO. You literally could have the solar system at you finger tips; plus the equity in a long utility structure and return of materials, this make space based manufacture more competitive than on Earth. The more uses you get on it the cheaper it gets.Of course... the engineering to make a space elevator... Interstellar light sails could follow... 99% light speed and the Universe is your tourist trap!
granddad2002 8 months ago
The whole concept is WTF and most likely, unworkable.
billgames 9 months ago
this just doesn't seem possible. the ribbon is suppose to reach 22 thousand miles into space. I don't think people are conceptualising just how far that is. The Earth is 7 thousand miles in diameter (rounding up), so the length of the elevator will be three times the diameter of Earth. Wow! On another point, why are they messing with laser power to boost the capsules? Why not a nuclear reactor? Far more dependable and cheaper it would seem to me.
billgames 2 years ago
Very true about the length ... it would have to be unbelievably long, but that is the plan none the less. As for nuclear reactors ... it is my understanding that not only is this not safe (especially when talking about a three-day trip with people in close proximity), beamed power is cleaner, cheaper, and a lot more light weight. The idea here is to replace rockets, which are using expensive and heavy fuel. The use of an on-board reactor would be counter productive and counter-intuitive.
bitterjester 2 years ago
Nuclear power submarine tight self contained environment, capable of reprocessing air, water and lifting heavy loads. US navy has operated them for 47 years with a clean record. Gov has spend over 100 billion on SDI and still can't shoot down an ICBM. I think NASA hates it because its not green, its not PC. Then again, if they can build a 22 thousand mile ribbon, maybe thay can build a laser that can continuously hit a moving target for 3 days.
billgames 2 years ago
Good point re: a small space + people + nuclear power. I do think that there is a huge difference between a floating sub and a small climber trying to break out of the atmosphere. As for accurately beamed power over a long period of time, that's exactly what the Space Elevator Games are all about. If you look at the progress made by the under-funded independent teams in only 2.5 years, they're on their way! Keep your eye pealed for our documentary!
bitterjester 2 years ago
I wish you the best of luck. I'll be first in line to buy a ticket if it ever gets off the ground. Tens of thousands of sailors have been working on hundreds of navel vessels for decades without incident. Your right about it being costly that's why you don't see commercial cargo vessels using it, except for Russian Ice Breakers. In that application, the economics work.
billgames 2 years ago
@bitterjester Carbon nano tubes are 20 times more conductive than copper so wouldn't it be easier to send electricity through the ribbon? Building a ribbon 20+ thousand miles long seems preposterous. Why couldn't we build a ribbon that's maybe 50 or 100 miles long with a counterweight on the end and let capsules ride to the top and fling them into space? By adjusting the speed of the release and at what point on the ribbon they release, we could put capsules in orbit or fling them to Mars.
billgames 2 months ago
@billgames
True.
There's a Dutch saying: ''een ketting is maar zo sterk als de zwakste schakel''. Don't know the Englisch equivalent. Losely translated: '' a chain is but so strong as it's weakest link''. 36.000 km of cable and it has to be equally strong in every milimeter of it... now that's a challange!
jayhellcat 1 year ago
@billgames so at this point we can asking our selfs why the ribbon should be son long. About the point that you are asking why they want to use a laser ,there was a reason but i forgot it , but we can search for it online i think. A nuclear reactor is always a littlebit dangerous we already try to leave nuclear energy behind us. ( i hope you all understand me , english isnt my motherlanguage)
richis404 1 year ago
@billgames Air distance from San Francisco to London = ~5,300 miles. A nonstop flight takes 10 hours at a cruising speed of 530 mph. If the elevator goes at that speed (I see no reason why it couldn't), it would do 22K in 41-1/2 hours; a train from SF to Chicago takes 50 hours. At just 200 mph, the speed of a (really) fast car, it would take about 4-1/2 days, roughly a cruise from SF (guess where I live) to Hawaii. With travel pillows and enough shrimp cocktails, it should be no problem.
ELuhn 1 year ago
@billgames It's only a design, wer'e talking about 30+ years to start building it. Anyways, the better design that most people don't talk about is actually using the carbon nanotubes conductivity as the power source. You can just send the electricity through them since carbon has a great conductivity. Or make a second nanotube structure to power it and have one structure to be climbed. Another thing about reactors is WEIGHT. way too much weight and not safe!
Superjombombo1 11 months ago
@Superjombombo1 A nuclear power car would work, but obviously sending electricity through the line is a way better idea. Instead of 22 thousand mile cable, how about a couple of hundred miles long? You'd have to power up the line for a ways, but pretty soon you'd get some serious momentum. You'd be flung into space the moment you let go. You could release from the line at lower altitudes to achieve a desired orbit. Might require some rocket burn to get the orbit stable.
billgames 11 months ago
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@Superjombombo1 A nuclear power car would work, but obviously sending electricity through the line is a way better idea. Instead of 22 thousand mile cable, how about a couple of hundred miles long? You'd have to power up the line for a ways, but pretty soon you'd get some serious momentum. You'd be flung into space the moment you let go. You could release from the line at lower altitudes to achieve a desired orbit. Might require some rocket burn to get the orbit stable.
billgames 11 months ago
@Superjombombo1 A nuclear power car would work, but obviously sending electricity through he line is a way better idea. Instead of 22 thousand mile cable, what if the cable was a couple of hundred miles long? You'd have to power up the line for a ways, but pretty soon you'd get some serious momentum. You'd be flung into space the moment you let go. You could release from the line at lower altitudes to achieve a desired orbit. Might require some rocket burn to get the orbit stable.
billgames 11 months ago
@Superjombombo1 I still think its just too unsafe. See the nuclear reactors in japan. Those are just effected by an earthquake and still they find radioactive material all the way in the US even though its minute amounts. Imagine a giant nuclear reactor malfunctioning and shooting radioactive material all over the earth. It's just not safe to launch reactors with enough power to lift off itself +more....over and over again. Nuclear reactors also cost a shiton elevator is roughly 10-15bil$ estima
Superjombombo1 11 months ago
@billgames nuclear reactor on the elevator? wtf?
sourmanofcoal 9 months ago
If one were built if would be a supreme target for terrorists.
disal1991 2 years ago
Yes. Just like the White House. Nuclear reactors. The Vatican. Hell, so what?
Not even the Twin Towers really got attacked, they had to make a phoney false flag. And those were standing right in the middle of a city, not on some military facility (as the elevator will be).
Terrorism is a smoke screen. Overrated. They could take out any nuclear reactor and destroy the US. They don't. It's just an Emmanuel Goldstein, nothing more.
trakkaton 2 years ago
@disal1991
that would suck for EVERYBODY then lol
cassandra5322 2 years ago
@disal1991 Of course it would, just like many other things. Also a plane or space debris hitting it would be bad. But Im sure they would consider those options and the surface access would be somewhere really secure. I think they even suggested putting it in the ocean on like a oil platform type of thing. Like somewhere in the Gulf of Mexico would be good and they would also have that place heavily guarded.
DPat6590 2 years ago
Yes, I agree, but it would have to be surrounded by metal framework. That would at least stop some of the debris coming at it, wouldn't it?
Another option is to not build one at all, just make better space ships with more efficient engines like anti-matter fusion reactors. What do you think?
disal1991 2 years ago
@disal1991 Yea I definetly agree with better space ships too. Which will happen when they find better tech also. And for the elevator I was thinking that they could protect by stopping projectiles before they even hit it. Like shooting projectiles with something idk. Or at least deflect objects. I know the military is working on things like that for vehicles, and they are building lasers to stop missiles, but either way they go it will take time to research. they could have plane/shuttle
DPat6590 2 years ago
Yes automated weapon systems would be effective, for a space elevator to be truly safe there would have to be peace world wide.
Think about the following names of countries:
United States Of Russia
United States of Britain
United States Of China
What do you think?
If that were to happen it would be amazing!
or am I being to republican? lol I am a republican though.
disal1991 2 years ago
Lol yea world peace would be much better. I am republican too. Yea if russia and china would stop being so annoying lol. If they could one day share ours and pretty much europes values of a free people; that would be amazing. I think there will always be a threat with some of the extreme islamics tho. Lol if russia and china and us were allied up along with all the other allies japan, uk, ect, we could defend against terror and then advance I guess in tech and other stuff that would be cool lol
DPat6590 2 years ago
disal1991 2 years ago
Lol, United Planets Space Command, that might work out. I agree with you on all the countries. I think all of Europe should be a part too. They are pretty good with technology. Mexico and Africa lol they would be good if they became more developed. If money wasn't a big problem then we could see more things now. This alliance of countries will not happen for a while, if it even does happen lol. I think it might be a competition for colonization land. Idk, though, but yea China and Russia
DPat6590 2 years ago
Japan would be a very valuable allie considering there technowogiacal advancements, lol.
disal1991 2 years ago
Japan definetly, I think the best would be USA, Japan, China, Russia, European Union, Canada, Australia, South Korea, and Israel, also maybe Indian too because they have a space program, but idk lol the indians seem wierd to me. Pretty much all the people who share the International Space Station. The high tech. countries and the lands of the free, if Russia and China would change and stop being douchebags, lol. All of us we destroy any terror problem that threatened us and
DPat6590 2 years ago
and be able to advance and make an elevator or many other things with the money and time.
DPat6590 2 years ago
China and Russia are big and are superpowers so it would be best for us all if they really did want to ally up with us.
DPat6590 2 years ago
@DPat6590
look up aero gels, nasa use them already to protect the international space station if im correct, very good at stopping space debris.. probably not so good against planes though.
cheaphitman 1 year ago
What about the oscillations of such a structure? Lower ~100km would slashed by winds and definitely the whole "string" would have lots of vibrational modes - lateral, longitudinal and even torsional.
Not that I'm not a fan of this, but the problem of oscillations seem unsurmountable to me. Since most of the tether would be in vacuum, there will be nothing to damp the oscillations. For the possible outcome of undamped oscillations see the fate of the Tacoma Narrows bridge.
svatapravda 2 years ago
If they had metal Framework surrounding it all the way up it could be possible.
disal1991 2 years ago
Very well observed. Check out the Launch Loop and other alternatives.
trakkaton 2 years ago
Were u talking to me?
If u were, i have seen the lauch loop stuff.
very cool, but i would like to see a space elevator instaed. If we had enough space elevators we would have an enormous fleet of ships in a about 150 years. what do you say?
disal1991 2 years ago
Actually, it's my understanding that a carbon nanotube cable has an obscenely high tensile strength ... but not so much in the way of cutting the ribbon from edge to edge. A swiftly-moving bird might be enough to take the thing down, much less an airplane.
bitterjester 2 years ago
There would need to be many revolutions in a row occurring, otherwise the elevator's gonna fall down. So yeah, I would hope so too.
bitterjester 3 years ago
When a space elevator is truly built, I'd expect a huge revolution in space to occur.
Oneshot112 3 years ago