The main issue Matt is why is it that your Bible is the only moral guide? Every religion has a "moral code". You use slavery as an example, bad choice, slavery is endorsed in the Bible. My thought is that if it is something that you don't want to happen to you, your daughter, your grandmother or anyone else you love, you shouldn't do it. Your point at the end, "Would you rather be robbed by an atheist or a believer?" I think most of the people in jail ARE believers.
@Ddraig64 Slavery in the bible in no way compares to what we know to be slavery. The most murderous system in history (communism) is an atheist society in that it BANS religion and this makes the state God. we've seen atheist morals and humanity will be wise to pass.
@demondagger19, Dude what have we done to this poor soul!?! LOL, he started off make very little sense and now look at him. Can't tell his arse from his elbow. I think hes just banging his fingers on his keyboard. Or maybe his head! I think we can pretty well stick a fork in this convo and as far as this debate goes, it's 2 v Nil. As in 2 brains against the lack of one. Maybe hes actually a computer progam they havent quite sorted out the logic capability on yet.
WARNING! The following message is intended for Matt Slick, ShockofGod,Demondagger19,Killiefan24 and all other Western Christian fundamentalists.
We got your IP & residential addresses and thanks to the NDAA Obama signed 12/31/11 there will be plenty of company for you all at your nearest detention center.
Don't fret little Christians Obama has a FEMA camp for all of you with guillotines and all! The revolution is here Citizen! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
@TheMuskokaman, well done mate. you've single handly taken down the entire christian religion with a few simple questions. We can sit and swap challenging questions around all day as many scholars and extremely brilliant and learned men do, or we can just realise that we are a few simpletons arguing on youtube at 500 characters or less per statement. Wake up and realise you don't have all the answers first of all. -cont
-cont, second, your questions do have answers and most if not all are explained or at least attempted by any good apologist (I can recommend Matt Slick on whose video we are now commenting). Of couse some questions we dont and will never have the 100% complete answer to and to think so is pridefully foolish. And yes there are "difficulties", which are hard to understand in the Bible, but just because you dont understand them or misinterpret them doesnt make them false.
One of the main reasons I began to believe the Bible in the first place is that it has you nonbelievers down to a T. You all hate us christians and the idea of ultimate authority and accountability way way more than you really need to, as demonstrated very well by you thank you, and WHY? Because deep deep down inside something subliminal and primal eats at your soul and fearfully mumbles, "they could be right". And it scares you to bits, and you react in the basic defence: Denial.
@killiefan24 You nor Demondagger 19 have answered the questions so I win! No song and dance with semantics just I win. If you two neither will answer the questions then it proves my argument and Thank You very much for being good sports!
@TheMuskokaman First, you can't properly answer a question, if the format or the basis of it is completly flawed to begin with, so if your woundering as to why your questions aren't being answered (according to you), it's because of the presentation of it interms of it's basis or format. You can't just ask a bunch of questions, but then exclude an explanation needed in order to answer the questions at hand, that's completly rediculious. So there also needs to be a reason as well.
@demondagger19 All you have done is not answer the questions so you can do as you please anyone who reads the comments will know who the intellect is. I hope you have a good life Demondagger19 perhaps one day you will have the scales fall from your eyes.
You can respond to this but I'm moving on and won't return your banter anymore.
@TheMuskokaman I guess suffering from amnesia seems to be another one of your annoying qualities, because it's as I've mentioned to you before, it's the format of your questioning that's flawed, not the questions being asked themselves, so they're not unanswerable. But again, if you do want your questions to be answered, then allow an explanation to be invovled as well, rather then just a simple yes or no answer so that I can answer your questions properly.
@demondagger19 Yes you can answer you choose not too because you can't or won't either way you have been tried by the peoples court of reason and have been found to be
GUILTY AS CHARGED OF THE FOLLOWING CRIMES
1st count; crimes of stupidity
2nd count;crimes of gross perpetuity of a non-substantiated belief
3rd count; false advertising
4th count;neglegence due to 5th count
5th count; ignorance due to 6th count
6th count;Lack of worldly education due to 4th count & 5th & 1st counts
@TheMuskokaman "Yes you can answer you choose not too because you can't or won't either way you have been tried by the peoples court of reason and have been found to be"
First, I never implied that your questions couldn't be answered, you assumed it.
@demondagger19 Your not even creative enough to use your own words you feel the need to use mine! How Flattering.......Thank you as you probably know imitation is the most sincere form of flattery. Oh yes you did imply that GUILTY... THOU BEARETH FALSE WITNESS AGAINST THY NEIGHBOUR thou doometh thyself to hell with thine own words!
@TheMuskokaman "Your not even creative enough to use your own words you feel the need to use mine! How Flattering"
You seriously sound like a complete moron right now, you do realise that don't you? In what way (in regards to my comments), have I ever imitated or copied your words? And the only thing flattering here, is your stupidity and blatant disillusionment in your own twisted and nonintellectual ideals, it's actually quiet entertaining lol.
@TheMuskokaman cont--"Oh yes you did imply that GUILTY... THOU BEARETH FALSE WITNESS AGAINST THY NEIGHBOUR thou doometh thyself to hell with thine own words!"
Firstly, no I didn't, and secondly (LOL), now who sounds like the whack job? you sound like a medieval crazed out priest who just got off his meds or something LOL, this is so hysterical LOL, oh man. Keep going, your doing such a great job so far *claps hands while laughing*.
@demondagger19 Yes You Did! Liar! Have funwith your circular reasoning is fun becausecircular reasoning is fun because circular reasoning is fun because circular reasoning is fun because circular reasoning is fun because circular reasoning is fun because circular reasoning is fun because circular reasoning is fun because circular reasoning is fun because circular reasoning is fun because circular reasoning is fun because circular reasoning is fun because circular reasoning is fun because
@TheMuskokaman cont--And secondly, I had already explained to you the reason as to why your questions weren't answered to begin with, and yet apparently, you clearly suffer from an inability in grasping what I'm telling you, or for that matter, keep disregarding it. Again, if you want your questions to be answered, then allow an explanation to be invovled as well, and then we can talk. But until then, i'll leave you with a sayonara for now my high horsed friend.
@TheMuskokaman cont--And secondly, as for you claming that (for whatever reason), you believe yourself to be the victor of the argument, really?, no, you seriously need to calm yourself, because you didn't win the argument, in fact technically, the fact that it wasn't answered (according to you), means by definition that there wasn't anything to refute to begin with. So no, you haven't win anything.
@TheMuskokaman, go ahead and claim your own victory, but dont forget its you who claimed it and not us that granted it. btw you do realise this is youtube right? Get over yourself. We have both demonstrated the clearly evident faulty logic of your questions AND actually answered some of them (contrary to your claim). BUT you havent answered many of ours. So by your own logic, you must admit that you have lost buddy boy. Thanks for proving our points!
@killiefan24 Hey Asshole I do not hate Christians! That is a lie! You have been decieved by the Bible and its progenators! It's not your fault. It's easy to be decieved just very difficult to be a big man and accept when your wrong! I understand!I do not hate Ultimate authority I just need good evidence to believe those who claim authority over me! DO YOU UNDERSTAND? BTW when I became Atheist all fear of everything left me I FEAR NO MAN NOR ANY GOD if God is so good why isn't he Debating me?
@TheMuskokaman, okay be the big man and except your wrong then if its so easy.
You dont need good evidence, you need to open your mind. But you cant do it yourself and nor can I. You need God to do it. So I will pray that God does debate you in your mind and open it for you. And you may not hate Christians but you hate God. Everyone does until he saves them from themselves.
@TheMuskokaman, BTW, if you dont fear anything then why do you bother with morales? Just do everything to make yourself happy or rich or whatever you desire. Many philosophers have concluded that its the most sensible lifestyle if there is no God. No one to answer to but yourself. Please yourself. Screw the rest. How can you justify empathising with others or living to anyone elses standards than the ones you choose for yourself? Except following a few laws so you dont go to jail.
@killiefan24 Why do you Need Matt Slick to answer the questions I put to you? Are you not capable of it yourseld? For future reference your attacks of "I don't understand" or the "prideful and foolish thing" make you look foolish. Just in case you didn't know. Use a more mature format if your going for brownie points with followers.
@TheMuskokaman, I need Matt Slick or any other apologist or expert because they are EXPERTS. Come on dude, do you not understand the concept of learning and education. it doesnt come from reading stones formed by themselves does it? You learn from experts who wrote them down. Do you think that I can answer every possible question you could fathom? Who do you think I am? Where did you get your answers from? Did you make them up yourself? Or did you travel back in time?
@TheMuskokaman, Not understanding something certainly doesnt make you seem foolish either. In fact many of the wisest and most intelligent men clearly state that the more they know and learn, the more they realise how little they actually know about everything. Your statement is an extremely arrogant and foolish one. Do you understand everything or even have an answer for everything. I think not. So you just proved yourself foolish in trying to prove me foolish. Well done there.
@TheMuskokaman, btw I answered your tedious question. That's not an invite to post more. It is up to the indivdual to decide what satisfies their curiosity on the subject. You have found your answers that fit what you want to believe, and I'm satisfied with mine. Unless you have groundbreaking new evidence that completely topples everything we ever knew about anything, then your weak challenges are pointless. You dont have the answers to everything so your claim again is arrogant.
1.Genesis 37:28 Then there passed by Midianites merchantmen; and they drew and lifted up Joseph out of the pit, and sold Joseph to the Ishmeelites for twenty pieces of silver: and they brought Joseph into Egypt.
2.Genesis 37:36 and the Midianites sold him into Egypt unto Potiphar, an officer of Pharaoh's, and captain of the guard.
Ishmeelites are not Egyptians do you see the contradiction here?
@Demondagger19 Can you locate these pillars for me on a geographical map? Shouldn't they be near Antartica? We must have missed them when we surveyed! 1 Samuel 2:8
He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, and lifteth up the beggar from the dunghill, to set them among princes, and to make them inherit the throne of glory: for the pillars of the earth are the LORD's, and he hath set the world upon them.
2.Job 9:6 Which shaketh the earth out of her place, and the pillars thereof tremble
And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.
The earth is a sphere there isn't a corner to be had!
@TheMuskokaman First, before I even attempt to answer any of these questions, are you willing to except or be open to an explanation regarding these questions, along with a yes or no answer? If so, then I'll answer these questions to the best of my abilities, but if not, then no comment from me will be evident. So, what's it gonna be?
@demondagger19 So your saying your pleading the 5th ammendment is that it? Or are you afraid I will catch you in the lies you believe from the bible and expose your religion for what it is A FRAUD!
@TheMuskokaman LOL, this is to hilarious lol. I'm supposed to be afrade, simply because you've presented a list of questions, and then you go on to say, answer the questions with a yes or no answer, and that no other answers will be exceptable. This is clearly (and quiet obviously) a trap question genius, and I would know this for certain, because I've also come across this in the past. You really must be out of your mind if you actually believe, that this was going to work on me. Nice try.
And the fact that you even excluded yourself as an individual (interms of your own morality as opposed to another atheist), obviously proves that not every atheist views morality in the same manner as you do. So, with that being said, what exactly makes your perspective of morality, anymore or less valid then someone elses?
@TheMuskokaman Is every Christians morals the same? If you say yes your a liar if you say no then you agree with me on representation of other peoples opinions!
@TheMuskokaman Uh actually, the answer would be yes, why? because the morality to which the christian adhere's to, derives from an unchanging God, and not from himself, in fact, the bible describes exactly this fact (see Rom 2:15).
@TheMuskokaman cont--Further, the same premises is also implemented into the heart of the atheist also, so, while the atheist may believe that the morality he has is derived from himself, in actuality, it's been directly given to him by God, and that's why the individual is capable of recognizing what right and wrong is.
@TheMuskokaman cont--But however, since atheism claims to have it's own set of morals, or for that matter even defines for itself it's own standerds for morality (which makes it subjective and therefore changeable by definition), then the individuals morals are nothing more then a personal opinion, as opposed to someone elses, --cont
@TheMuskokaman cont--in fact, even good and evil would also be based upon an opinionated notion, instead of being based on any concrete, knowable and definitive standerds.
@TheMuskokaman I believe I had asked you a question similar to this before hand, upon which you completly avoided by the way, but then again, this isn't really surprising to say the least.
@TheMuskokaman cont--But to answer your question, the morality to which I adhere to, isn't from myself (which is what your implying), but rather is derived from an unchanging eternal God, and therefore do not, and cannot change, regardless of my curcumstances, ---cont
@TheMuskokaman cont-- and that is why I believe that the morality to which I look to, is morally more beneficial as opposed to the morality within atheism, because (again), they do not change, and because they do not change (as God is unchanging), they can always be relied upon in being completly consistant and stable no matter what.
@demondagger19, Hey pal, just wanted to say well done in your arguments. Sounds funny to say it, but your apologetics knowledge is really good. I assume you've been to the site CARM? Yeah Matt Slick would have a field day with the logical fallacies (and primitive ones at that) coming from old Muskokman, eh?! Well you can't say God didn't see him coming, check Psalms 14, 35, and 36 out. Good to read when frustrated with fools and attackers of the faith, and the answer he gives...
@killiefan24 Well Matt Slick better have better evidence than what you fools brought to the table! Unbelievably stupid and ridiculous arguments do not make for a win. BTW The art of semantical debate is all that you boys think you know. Using inuendo doesn't a win make either silly boys!
@killiefan24 "Hey pal, just wanted to say well done in your arguments."
Thank's bro, I really appreciate it allot. But primarily, I do this only for the glorification of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ, so if anyone deserves any credit for any of this, it's Christ alone, but again, thank you very much for the compliment.
@killiefan24 "Sounds funny to say it, but your apologetics knowledge is really good. I assume you've been to the site CARM?"
First, thanks again for the compliment. And yes, I have been on the "CARM" website before, athough (sometimes) I don't normally rely on it to much on it interms of it's apologetics, usually I just simply study from other sources, not just from the "CARM" website alone. But, nonetheless, it's still a very informative website to go to. So what about you?
@killiefan24 "Yeah Matt Slick would have a field day with the logical fallacies (and primitive ones at that) coming from old Muskokman, eh?!"
Believe me bro, I already know the feeling lol. And logical fallacies are only the tip of the iceberg within atheism, it's quiet ridiculous if you logically analyze it for yourself in it's entirety.
@killiefan24 "Well you can't say God didn't see him coming, check Psalms 14, 35, and 36 out. Good to read when frustrated with fools and attackers of the faith, and the answer he gives..."
And yet there are many more people like him all over the world, but despite their lack of respect towards God, God still loves them and wants to save them (just like who we were), from their sins as well (Rom 5:8, John 3:16).
@killiefan24 cont--So regardless, we still need to pray that God will just open their eyes through the light of his holy unchanging word (Ps 119:105).
@killiefan24 cont--Although the intellectual arguments are useful in some cases, and do help in leading others to Christ, ultimately, it is the Holy Spirit who opens up their darkened minds into Gods light and truth, just like peter's affirmation when he described Jesus as being the Son of God as a result of the Holy Spirits revelation to him.
@killiefan24 cont--So in actuality, it isn't us who brings people to Christ, based on anything we say or do within and of ourselves, but it's by power of the Holy Spirit alone. So it's God who saves, while we on the other hand, do not.
@killiefan24 "in Psalm 36:5-9. His love and faithfulness reach the heavens. Amen, and I pray with you for them."
Thanks bro. And may the Lord keep you, and cause his love to sustain you all throughout your walk with Christ. God bless you tremendously and I mean it from my heart. Thank you. Peace.
@mikepulcinella. Within your scope of "religious people" I would hope you would consider Jesus Christ, on whom the entire Christian religion is based, and the fact that his life and teachings are “exhibit A” for the perfect absolute standard of morality. (contd)
@killiefan24 Well exhibit A is full of shit! The Bible is a joke if you have actually read it you would know that! It is of no more worth than an Archie comic historically and Archeologically nothing has ever been found that proves even a paragraph in the entire book.Which Jesus should I conform too the one in the Koran? Or the Jesus who will send 6 billion people to hell today if he comes back? Christianity only makes up for 12% of the world population so 88% are doomed to hell? SORRY GET ALIFE
-cont- You're facts are completely wrong as well, as many facts have proven many truths in the Bible and non have proven anything completely false. As Matt Slick and other Apologists clearly demonstrate in their research. And again, your argument is completely illogical. If 88% of the world didn't believe in the you, would you not be real? Try again.
@killiefan24 BTW your facts are WRONG 100% of the time 88% of the world doesn't believe in the bible it's about 15% actually so you don't even have your facts straight little boy! Get an education then come back and we will talk!
@TheMuskokaman, man you are thick. 1stly you came up with the figure of 88% so nice job on contradicting yourself there. I can see we're gonna get far with you. 2ndly when i used the figure it was stated as a hypothetical example so is not stated as a fact. Seriously why does anyone bother talking to you. I'm begging to wonder.
@killiefan24 You see that's your problem you think I am going to Become a believer because you can swing semantics and ad hominens like a baseball bat. Get some education from something other than your Bible and bible affiliated sites. FYI a dfference of 3% is negligible when one considers the bibles fallacies are 100% wrong 100% of the time!
@TheMuskokaman, #1 I dont expect you to change nor am I trying to change you. I'm just arguing just as you are. Are you trying to win me over to your side? Because youre not doing very well.
Oh and I suppose then, I should just read whatever books you tell me to read (or not to read). Why are you trying to tell me what to believe. How does what I believe affect you?
And again your the one who stressed the importance of accurate facts and now wiggle out saying its negligble? WHAT!
@TheMuskokaman, Your arguments are a pitiful mockery, which lack any logic whatsoever. If you're going to make wild claims and biased opinion-based assertions, you may as well keep your mouth shut, else you look a fool as you do now. I have read the Bible and I can say for certain that it is clearly not a joke. You can choose whether or not you believe its teachings but that doesn't affect whether they're true or not. Try logic next time.
@killiefan24 Hey peckerhead I know your bible better than you and so far as facts... show them! Your ill-founded belief system is full of holes I have done the research perhaps you should try it and not just flap your gums with foolish Ad hominems!If your claiming logic then you haven't cross referrenced the info in the bible with other sources seperate to Christianity! A good example is the story of Joseph Who sold him to the Egyptians was it the Midianites or the Ishmaelites?
@TheMuskokaman, "I know your bible better than you"- and your logical way of proving that statement, or even having that belief is...? Yeah, please continue these logical processes. Quite entertaining! Silly person. "You haven't cross referrenced..." same again. Wild unproved statement. How do you know I haven't. And your challenge, if that's what your offering, is so weak. Not really rocking the foundations of the faith there are we? Here's one for you, Why does that matter?
@killiefan24 Did you even check the story of Joseph as I suggested? No obviously not instead you sit in your chair slinging the same Christian bullshit dogma of ignorance look it up Stupid!
@TheMuskokaman, I'm already aware of your argument, and I directed you to an apologist who can answer your needy questioning all day if you want, but a very brief summary would be to suggest that the groups may have been the same or synonymous and that is according to a historical scholar so dont tell me I just made it up. There now you try answering for a change, what significance does that bear to the discussion?
@killiefan24 Now your calling me a liar and your telling me what I know! Do you see how ignorant you are? You tell me I haven't crossreferrenced anything when I tell you I have. In that case GO FUCK YOURSELF! Your grammar tells volumes about the level of education you have if nothing else!
@TheMuskokaman, never called you a liar (I said you contradicted yourself, while trying to ridicule me, and basically pointed out that your factually ignorant of your own nonsense and not even capable of carrying out a logical conversation. Sad but true). AND never accused you of not crossreferrencing anything- try learning what quotation marks mean, before you even start to talk about grammar, fool. My career deals with grammar. You have erred again. Try harder next time.
Yeah, please continue these logical processes. Quite entertaining! Silly person. "You haven't cross referrenced..." same again. Wild unproved statement. How do you know I haven't. And your challenge, if that's what your offering, is so weak. Not really rocking the foundations of the faith there are we? Here's one for you, Why does that matter?
@TheMuskokaman, Wow, you are frustratingly thick and just dont get it do you. A quotation mark means that I'm quoting YOUR WORDS!!! Thats why I told you to learn what quotation marks means. I quoted your statement when you told me that I hadnt crossreferenced and I said it was the same as before in that you were making illogical and frankly incorrect assumptions. Wake up, and pull your head out of your rear.
@TheMuskokaman, btw, its a commonly understood idea that youtube and other internet chatting facilities are not to be taken as grammatically and spelling perfect ever, due their nature and UNIMPORTANCE in the grand scheme. Which is why I dont waste time correcting yours.
AND where do you get the idea that is okay to just curse me out because you get upset (over your misunderstanding btw), and then again try to insult me in retalliation? Very immature and ultimately illogical.
And for the rest of us, if you understood the nature of humanity correctly you would know that it is impossible for us to keep to that standard or even any nearer to it than anyone else. So we can have this conversation now. If you can find someone else who lives up to a higher standard of morality then you can talk. But you won’t obviously.
I think it would add to the argument that atheism fails to give an accurate definition of evil. They come up with something they would call evil and label it as immoral. But what is evil? Evil is something that goes against a universal purpose. Atheism has no other option except that there is no universal purpose. Therefore there is no good or evil. No morality subjective or objective.
@demondagger19 Where did you get that Idea? Morality doesn't come from a book! It comes from well reasoned arguments derived within a social landscape. Atheists morality is 100% of the time more moral than any religous teachings ever made on this planet!
Please take the time out to think about this for just a second, if God does not exist, (which means that there are no objective unchanging morals beyond ourselves from an unchanging eternal deity), then morality itself, is nothing more then a subjective notion that the individual (based on his or hers own particular situation) can change according to their own ideals of what he/she feels or believes is morally good according to their own perspectives.
@demondagger19 What a load of garbled nonsense! Hey instead of trying to impress me with your nonsensical circular reasoning YOU should think about it! Morality is dependent on perspective but we are talking generally not psuedo bullshit that uses 1 case to make a point across the entire spectrum. When is lying beneficial? When is stealing beneficial? When is murder beneficial? These 3 are the only true morality as humans we can adhere too. BTW they have their origins long before Christ!
@TheMuskokaman "When is lying beneficial? When is stealing beneficial? When is murder beneficial? These 3 are the only true morality as humans we can adhere too."
But you as an atheist can't know that for certain, since (again) there are no moral absolutes.
@demondagger19 Your argument is circular reasoned sorry! Absolute means nothing since everything is in a constant state of change therefore there are no Absolutes of any kind only probabilities.
Next you infer that because I am an Atheist I can't know for certain! Once again. How Absurd! My position is the one of default I make no claims of absolution and If you do then you are full of shit! Claim what it is you are defending and quit rambling!
@TheMuskokaman Uh, but that's apart of the problem smart guy. You say that "everything is in a constant state of change therefore there are no Absolutes of any kind only probabilities.",
@TheMuskokaman cont-- well, let's think about what your saying here for just a moment, if everything is in a constant state of change, then evidently the individuals morals must change along with it,--cont
@TheMuskokaman cont-- but with that being said, if the individuals morals (because they are liable to change as I've mentioned before) can be effected by change due to a constantly changing world, then it begs the question as to the accuracy regarding the individuals morals themselves,---cont
@TheMuskokaman cont-- because, if the individuals morals are always changing along with everything surrounding the individual, then the determining affermation in (absolutely knowing) whether or not something's right or wrong is left with nothing more then a question mark, so the person wouldn't be able to know for certain ether way, all he/she can do however, is only assume or guess, but he/she can't know for certain, and that's the problem.
@TheMuskokaman cont-- And while it's true that probabilities may be accurate sometimes depending on the situation, the fact that even probabilities are a result of an ongoing already changing morality, still makes it unreliable regardless due to it's changing origins, --cont
@TheMuskokaman cont-- so it isn't very reliable ether way, in fact, part of the problem with probabilities is that they are not always accurate, and so with that criteria, why then, or rather how then can we rely on it for assurance? In short, we can't.
@TheMuskokaman "well u have convinced yourself at least"
Uh, I didn't have to convince myself of anything in order to know this to be true. We know this to be true because it's a fact, probabilities are based on chance depending on the circumstances, not concrete validity.
@demondagger19 anyway have fun with that a couple just showed up and we're having an orgy with them and the neighbours in fact my neighbours wife is sucking my cock while i type this gotta go this is distracting me have fun
@TheMuskokaman ......I don't see why you felt the need to even mention that sort of thing to me to begin with (which is completly inappropriate). But I will keep you in my prayers and pray that the Lord will both save and change your heart. Jesus came to die for your sins, and to also save you from this lost and dying world. And I just hope that one day you'll come to know the God of the bible. He loves you and cares about you and I pray that you'll open your eyes to this reality one day. Peace.
@demondagger19 You delusional little man Jesus is DEAD! has been fo 1975 years now. My statement was meant more for shock value than truth because you are wasting my time and yours perpetuating this little debate. Young man I know your Bible inside and out that is why I fight you so vehemently. I will never go back to Christianity or any belief based system because they are all wrong. They put emphasis on after death not paying attention to here and now! The Kingdom of heaven is at hand NOW!
Actually, the fact that you willingly chose to leave christianity in the first place (based on your own ideals), is the very result that you were never a true christian, or for that matter, ever a true believer in christ to begin with, so evidently, this is a categorically false statement on your behalf (see 1 John Chapter 2).
@TheMuskokaman "Please answer these questions with only a Yes or No no other answers are acceptable"
First, notice that you said "No other answers are acceptable", this however is completly ridiculous from the start, why? because your trying to present your questions as though there are no other options (or even a need for an explanation), when in actuality, there are other options and a need for an explanation, --- cont
@TheMuskokaman "you never answered and until you do were done talking!"
Actually, interms of your other previouse questions that you recently asked (prior to the question that you're now asking), I did in fact, answer your questions, and again, the many comments that I posted ealier regarding your questions, is evidence of that, yet you clearly refuse to except it.
@TheMuskokaman cont-- And secondly, unless you're willing to except an explanation (along with a yes or no answer), then I guess this conversation is over. If you seriously think that I don't recognize what you're trying to do, then you must be as foolish as you sound right now, the format of your question is clearly a trap question (as I would describe it), since it's notion clearly excludes any or all other applications. Nice attempt, but sadly, you've failed.
@TheMuskokaman cont--But hey, if it makes you feel any better, I will admite that you almost got me that time.....even though anyone with a brain can clearly see just how poorly constructed your use of argumentation is lol. Hey, I'll even bet (and I'm only speculating here), that you derived some of your questions from some atheist website, am I right lol?
@TheMuskokaman cont-- Actually, this also begs the question as to why an explanation wouldn't also need to be in conjunction, along with answering the questions being asked? And further, I was already aware that the depiction of your question (or rather the format of it), is an attempt in trying to trap me by trying to exclude any and all other options. LOL nice try, but could you have been anymore obviouse lol?
@TheMuskokaman cont--"Young man I know your Bible inside and out that is why I fight you so vehemently."
On the contrary, it's quiet obviouse that you haven't the slightest clue as to what the bible actually teaches, and you've clearly demonstrated that based on your flawed view of christianity to begin with.
@demondagger19 Is that why you haven't answered my questions? I can quote scripture all day bud and night too. I was going to ministry school to become a Methodist minister @ Amridge university when my actual revelation happened.This is no lie it's what really happened and I'm sad for you if you do not believe me but I understand if you do not wish too. I practiced Christianity for 42 years since my parents took me to Church as a baby. I understand indoctrination much better than you think I do
@TheMuskokaman "Is that why you haven't answered my questions? I can quote scripture all day bud and night too."
First, I actually have answered many of your questions, and all you have to do is look at the many previous comments that I've recently provided as evidence.
@TheMuskokaman cont--Secondly, what's your point? even a "Muslim Apologist" can quote scripture just as adequately as anyone else, but that still doesn't make the individual a christian, regardless. So that isn't really a valid point to begin with.
@TheMuskokaman " I practiced Christianity for 42 years since my parents took me to Church as a baby. I understand indoctrination much better than you think I do"
Uh, simply because you were indoctrinated as a child for 42 years, and were also raised into believing the teachings of christianity (based on your own experiance as a child), doesn't mean however that everyone else who have been a christian way longer then you have, has experianced or came to christianity in the same manner, --cont
@TheMuskokaman cont-- why? because (for example) there are some who may not have even grown up into a christian house hold all throughout their entire lives and then later on, chooses to except christianity due to their own personal convictions. --cont
@TheMuskokaman cont-- So the notion that one becomes a christian, or is a christian or is considerd to be a christian, simply because of their parents or because of the environment to which he/she grows up in (which is what your implying), is complete nonsense, and is entirly based on a stereotypical generalization.
@TheMuskokaman cont--So essentially, your experiance doesn't account for every christian out there, nor for anyone else in general for that matter. So that's a pretty weak argument.
@TheMuskokaman cont--And (again) just because you professed to be a christian (simply because you grew up in a christian house hold and excepted the christian faith because of your parents), doesn't make you a christian according to what the bible teaches, regarding as to what a christian is.
@TheMuskokaman "Unless you answer the questions with a yes or no were done talking!"
Uh, why? because you say so lol? Here's a questionable thought for you genius, why aren't you willing to except an explanation, along with a yes or no answer also? Unless of course your objective is to simply try and trap me, based on the premise and format of your question (which you obviously are trying to do) lol. Do yourself a favor and quite while your ahead, because your attempts aren't going to work.
@TheMuskokaman cont--And (FYI), no one indoctrinated me into the christian faith, and as hard as this might be for you to realize, not everyone of us where forced into just simply excepting whatever our parents believed, although it's quiet obviouse that you apparently did, but I (unlike you), did not, I was actually able to think for myself, it's just sad that you weren't given the same opportunity as a child.
@TheMuskokaman, Id be surprised if any of your little tale were true, for a few reasons. For one, I have heard that exact story before from several other angry atheist on the net trying to sound as though they have some authoritive understanding, and also because all your arguements up to this point show a clear lack of real learning, critical thinking, and oh yeah- maturity. I would put money on the fact that you're not over 30. Try to be original next time pal.
@TheMuskokaman "They put emphasis on after death not paying attention to here and now! The Kingdom of heaven is at hand NOW!"
That's because the "here and now", is evidently, and is slowly fading away each day. The bottom line is this, everything in this life eventually dies, it's that simple, nothing lasts forever. So with that being said, which is more important? the "here and now" which is going to eventually die out?, or the eternal world which is to come?
@TheMuskokaman cont-- And (FYI), the "Kingdom of God" isn't this world, but rather, a spiritual world (or kingdom) that is beyond this physical world. Please, the next time around, I would advise you in actually learning to get your biblical facts straight before making any statements like that.
@demondagger19 Look it DD read some of my more recent comments to other posts you have made. There is nothing you can tell me about the bible I don't understand so please stop posturing as though you were better versed than I
@TheMuskokaman "Next you infer that because I am an Atheist I can't know for certain! Once again. How Absurd!"
Lol, there's nothing absurd about it at all, because you haven't provided any evidence for as to how you can know for certain, and would you like to know why? because as an atheist your morals are always constantly changing which makes it unpredictable for you to know for sure ether way, and that's why.
@TheMuskokaman So essentially, your morals are primarily based on only assuming that (based on your own standard of morality) that somethings ether morally right or morally wrong, but you yourself can't be certain of that assuridly, due to the ongoing and constant changing nature of your own morality according to your subjective inclination.
@TheMuskokaman cont--Your practically just shooting in the dark, and assuming that based on your own moral standered that what you believe is morally correct, is correct, without actually knowing with any assurance, and that's pretty troubling.
@TheMuskokaman cont--And while it's true that you can adere to them as a basis for morality for yourself (as an individual), however, since morality can be changed, and is completly subject to the person themselves, the moral premises that you've provided may differ from person to person according to the individuals themselves and their perspectives.
@TheMuskokaman cont-- So in ether case, your notion is still unreliable and untrustworthy, in fact, since absolute morals don't exist, how are you even certain that (based on the moral premises that you've provided) that your notion is even correct to begin with?
@demondagger19 Hey Freud boy back to reality here .............that's it a little more.......There there we got you a nice room with padded walls and everything
@TheMuskokaman cont--The problem with this logic, is that what may be morally good for you personally, may not be looked upon in the same manner for someone else depending on the other person themselves, why? because it is not absolute. So in essence, as an atheist, morality is up for grabs, regardless of who the person may be.
@demondagger19 Claim your stance Mr. Christian funny how you block your homepage! what? are you out trolling?............or just too cowardly to show your true colours? You make no point!
@TheMuskokaman cont--But there in lies the problem, if morality is entirly subjective, and can change according to the individual themselves depending on their situation, then how can he or she be entirly certain that what he or she feels is morally correct (or not), is correct with absolute certainty simply because he or she believes so?
@TheMuskokaman cont--And secondly, you said that an "Atheists morality is 100% of the time more moral than any religous teachings ever made on this planet!", but that begs the question, because in an atheistic perspective there are no moral absolutes, and therefore because there are no moral absolutes, morality itself would liable to change at anytime.
@demondagger19 Atheists morality (and I don't speak for them all but I believe I share a common moral compass with most Atheists) is derived from common sense of all knowledge at our disposal. Your argument that it could change at anytime is plausible but highly unlikely.What has to be remembered here is the individual and that each individual is responsible for his/her own moral compass. Do you think that because someone becomes an atheist that they just lose all morality? How Absurd a notion!
@TheMuskokaman Is it alright to hide a family of Jews being hunted by the Nazi's in your house and lie about their whereabouts when they come calling?ABSOLUTELY You did it to protect the lives of the family Is it alright when you steal a loaf of bread because you are starving?Absolutely you are doing it for your own self preservation not with malice! Is it alright for a woman who was raped to have an Abortion because having the baby may jeporadize her life?ABSOLUTELYShe was assaulted maliciously
@TheMuskokaman Lol, well, the same question can also be phrased in this manner by asking "is it wrong to cheat on your spouse, even though it's not hurting anyone else physically in the process?", the answer is an obviouse yes, why? because even though sexually it may be pleasurable to the individual committing the sexual act itself, morally on the other hand, it is still wrong even though it may provide sexual relief for the individual committing the act of adultry in the process.
@demondagger19 The answer maybe yes but not because of the reason you stated rather if you are married then you entered into a contract that is legal and binding and swore an oath of allegiance to that person forsaking all others until death do you part. That is different that is breaking your oath which in turn makes you a liar as well as violation of your contract. Tsk Tsk 2 strikes on 1 pitch!
@TheMuskokaman cont-- In scripture (as a sinful and fallen race), naturally our only impulse is to sin without realising it, so it shouldn't be surprising that such traits such as lying, steeling, committing adultry or anything thing of that nature would be evident, why? because it's apart of who we are, our entire human nature (to the core) is completly corrupted because of sin.
@demondagger19 wrong we are not corrupt because of sin! why didn"t you just get to the point that your morals are derived from the bible and we coulda saved alot of time
@TheMuskokaman cont--So it's no accident that you would go so far as to even justifying it as being morally okay even though according to Gods Law, it is still wrong regardless. Everytime we lie, steel, or do ether of the two, we violate his holy Law (which are essentially his decrees of how humanity is to function, and is also a reflection of his eternal and unchanging nature or character).
@TheMuskokaman cont-- So his commandments are in fact like a contract that he relays to his creation, which (if breached or broken) will result in certain consiquences.
@TheMuskokaman cont-- Also, it's quiet obviouse that you completly misunderstood my analogy regarding adultry, my point was that, even though the act of adultry maybe sexually pleasurable regarding the individual, however, in Gods perspective, it is still absolutly wrong regardless of the positive results of it, a sin is a sin regardless, and as such, doesn't make it justifiably okay just because you personally believe it is.
The main issue Matt is why is it that your Bible is the only moral guide? Every religion has a "moral code". You use slavery as an example, bad choice, slavery is endorsed in the Bible. My thought is that if it is something that you don't want to happen to you, your daughter, your grandmother or anyone else you love, you shouldn't do it. Your point at the end, "Would you rather be robbed by an atheist or a believer?" I think most of the people in jail ARE believers.
Ddraig64 2 days ago
@Ddraig64 Slavery in the bible in no way compares to what we know to be slavery. The most murderous system in history (communism) is an atheist society in that it BANS religion and this makes the state God. we've seen atheist morals and humanity will be wise to pass.
faithalonesaves1 2 hours ago
HOW LONG YOU WANNA CONTINUE MAKING YOURSELVES LOOK FOOLISH BOYS? i GOT 3 MINUTES A DAY TO WASTE SHOWING YOU HOW STUPID YOU ARE!
TheMuskokaman 2 weeks ago
@TheMuskokaman CAPS LOCK MAKES ME SMARTER DURHURHUR
StygianWhite 1 week ago
@demondagger19, Dude what have we done to this poor soul!?! LOL, he started off make very little sense and now look at him. Can't tell his arse from his elbow. I think hes just banging his fingers on his keyboard. Or maybe his head! I think we can pretty well stick a fork in this convo and as far as this debate goes, it's 2 v Nil. As in 2 brains against the lack of one. Maybe hes actually a computer progam they havent quite sorted out the logic capability on yet.
Anyways, Blessings to you.
killiefan24 2 weeks ago
@killiefan24 YOU LOSE SORRY ABOUT YOUR RELIGION ...ACTUALLY NO I'M NOT!
TheMuskokaman 2 weeks ago
WARNING! The following message is intended for Matt Slick, ShockofGod,Demondagger19,Killiefan24 and all other Western Christian fundamentalists.
We got your IP & residential addresses and thanks to the NDAA Obama signed 12/31/11 there will be plenty of company for you all at your nearest detention center.
FEMA4U FEMA4U FEMA4U FEMA4U FEMA4U FEMA4U FEMA4U FEMA4U FEMA4U FEMA4U
WELCOME TO THE NWO WITH ERGONOMIC GUILLOTINES AND ALL CYA L8R C1T1Z3NS
TheMuskokaman 2 weeks ago
Don't fret little Christians Obama has a FEMA camp for all of you with guillotines and all! The revolution is here Citizen! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
TheMuskokaman 2 weeks ago
@Demondagger Your lack of response is answer enough thank you for bowing out however ungraciously!
TheMuskokaman 3 weeks ago
@TheMuskokaman, well done mate. you've single handly taken down the entire christian religion with a few simple questions. We can sit and swap challenging questions around all day as many scholars and extremely brilliant and learned men do, or we can just realise that we are a few simpletons arguing on youtube at 500 characters or less per statement. Wake up and realise you don't have all the answers first of all. -cont
killiefan24 2 weeks ago
-cont, second, your questions do have answers and most if not all are explained or at least attempted by any good apologist (I can recommend Matt Slick on whose video we are now commenting). Of couse some questions we dont and will never have the 100% complete answer to and to think so is pridefully foolish. And yes there are "difficulties", which are hard to understand in the Bible, but just because you dont understand them or misinterpret them doesnt make them false.
killiefan24 2 weeks ago
One of the main reasons I began to believe the Bible in the first place is that it has you nonbelievers down to a T. You all hate us christians and the idea of ultimate authority and accountability way way more than you really need to, as demonstrated very well by you thank you, and WHY? Because deep deep down inside something subliminal and primal eats at your soul and fearfully mumbles, "they could be right". And it scares you to bits, and you react in the basic defence: Denial.
killiefan24 2 weeks ago
@killiefan24 You nor Demondagger 19 have answered the questions so I win! No song and dance with semantics just I win. If you two neither will answer the questions then it proves my argument and Thank You very much for being good sports!
TheMuskokaman 2 weeks ago
@TheMuskokaman First, you can't properly answer a question, if the format or the basis of it is completly flawed to begin with, so if your woundering as to why your questions aren't being answered (according to you), it's because of the presentation of it interms of it's basis or format. You can't just ask a bunch of questions, but then exclude an explanation needed in order to answer the questions at hand, that's completly rediculious. So there also needs to be a reason as well.
demondagger19 2 weeks ago
@demondagger19 All you have done is not answer the questions so you can do as you please anyone who reads the comments will know who the intellect is. I hope you have a good life Demondagger19 perhaps one day you will have the scales fall from your eyes.
You can respond to this but I'm moving on and won't return your banter anymore.
Take Care
TheMuskokaman 2 weeks ago
@TheMuskokaman I guess suffering from amnesia seems to be another one of your annoying qualities, because it's as I've mentioned to you before, it's the format of your questioning that's flawed, not the questions being asked themselves, so they're not unanswerable. But again, if you do want your questions to be answered, then allow an explanation to be invovled as well, rather then just a simple yes or no answer so that I can answer your questions properly.
cont
demondagger19 2 weeks ago
@TheMuskokaman cont--But, if your not open to that option, then I guess this conversation is over.
demondagger19 2 weeks ago
@demondagger19 Yes you can answer you choose not too because you can't or won't either way you have been tried by the peoples court of reason and have been found to be
GUILTY AS CHARGED OF THE FOLLOWING CRIMES
1st count; crimes of stupidity
2nd count;crimes of gross perpetuity of a non-substantiated belief
3rd count; false advertising
4th count;neglegence due to 5th count
5th count; ignorance due to 6th count
6th count;Lack of worldly education due to 4th count & 5th & 1st counts
FEMA4U
TheMuskokaman 2 weeks ago
@TheMuskokaman "Yes you can answer you choose not too because you can't or won't either way you have been tried by the peoples court of reason and have been found to be"
First, I never implied that your questions couldn't be answered, you assumed it.
cont
demondagger19 2 weeks ago
@demondagger19 Your not even creative enough to use your own words you feel the need to use mine! How Flattering.......Thank you as you probably know imitation is the most sincere form of flattery. Oh yes you did imply that GUILTY... THOU BEARETH FALSE WITNESS AGAINST THY NEIGHBOUR thou doometh thyself to hell with thine own words!
TheMuskokaman 2 weeks ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@TheMuskokaman "Your not even creative enough to use your own words you feel the need to use mine! How Flattering"
You seriously sound like a complete moron right now, you do realise that don't you? In what way (in regards to my comments), have I ever imitated or copied your words? And the only thing flattering here, is your stupidity and blatant disillusionment in your own twisted and nonintellectual ideals, it's actually quiet entertaining lol.
cont
demondagger19 2 weeks ago
@TheMuskokaman cont--"Oh yes you did imply that GUILTY... THOU BEARETH FALSE WITNESS AGAINST THY NEIGHBOUR thou doometh thyself to hell with thine own words!"
Firstly, no I didn't, and secondly (LOL), now who sounds like the whack job? you sound like a medieval crazed out priest who just got off his meds or something LOL, this is so hysterical LOL, oh man. Keep going, your doing such a great job so far *claps hands while laughing*.
demondagger19 2 weeks ago
@demondagger19 Yes You Did! Liar! Have funwith your circular reasoning is fun becausecircular reasoning is fun because circular reasoning is fun because circular reasoning is fun because circular reasoning is fun because circular reasoning is fun because circular reasoning is fun because circular reasoning is fun because circular reasoning is fun because circular reasoning is fun because circular reasoning is fun because circular reasoning is fun because circular reasoning is fun because
TheMuskokaman 2 weeks ago
@TheMuskokaman LOL And the crazies just keep on coming lol, this is so hysterical. Keep going, you entertain, me lol.
demondagger19 2 weeks ago
@TheMuskokaman cont--And secondly, I had already explained to you the reason as to why your questions weren't answered to begin with, and yet apparently, you clearly suffer from an inability in grasping what I'm telling you, or for that matter, keep disregarding it. Again, if you want your questions to be answered, then allow an explanation to be invovled as well, and then we can talk. But until then, i'll leave you with a sayonara for now my high horsed friend.
demondagger19 2 weeks ago
Comment removed
demondagger19 2 weeks ago
@TheMuskokaman cont--And secondly, as for you claming that (for whatever reason), you believe yourself to be the victor of the argument, really?, no, you seriously need to calm yourself, because you didn't win the argument, in fact technically, the fact that it wasn't answered (according to you), means by definition that there wasn't anything to refute to begin with. So no, you haven't win anything.
demondagger19 2 weeks ago
@TheMuskokaman *won anything*
demondagger19 2 weeks ago
@TheMuskokaman, go ahead and claim your own victory, but dont forget its you who claimed it and not us that granted it. btw you do realise this is youtube right? Get over yourself. We have both demonstrated the clearly evident faulty logic of your questions AND actually answered some of them (contrary to your claim). BUT you havent answered many of ours. So by your own logic, you must admit that you have lost buddy boy. Thanks for proving our points!
killiefan24 2 weeks ago
@killiefan24 Hey Asshole I do not hate Christians! That is a lie! You have been decieved by the Bible and its progenators! It's not your fault. It's easy to be decieved just very difficult to be a big man and accept when your wrong! I understand!I do not hate Ultimate authority I just need good evidence to believe those who claim authority over me! DO YOU UNDERSTAND? BTW when I became Atheist all fear of everything left me I FEAR NO MAN NOR ANY GOD if God is so good why isn't he Debating me?
TheMuskokaman 2 weeks ago
@TheMuskokaman, okay be the big man and except your wrong then if its so easy.
You dont need good evidence, you need to open your mind. But you cant do it yourself and nor can I. You need God to do it. So I will pray that God does debate you in your mind and open it for you. And you may not hate Christians but you hate God. Everyone does until he saves them from themselves.
killiefan24 2 weeks ago
@TheMuskokaman, BTW, if you dont fear anything then why do you bother with morales? Just do everything to make yourself happy or rich or whatever you desire. Many philosophers have concluded that its the most sensible lifestyle if there is no God. No one to answer to but yourself. Please yourself. Screw the rest. How can you justify empathising with others or living to anyone elses standards than the ones you choose for yourself? Except following a few laws so you dont go to jail.
killiefan24 2 weeks ago
@killiefan24 Why do you Need Matt Slick to answer the questions I put to you? Are you not capable of it yourseld? For future reference your attacks of "I don't understand" or the "prideful and foolish thing" make you look foolish. Just in case you didn't know. Use a more mature format if your going for brownie points with followers.
TheMuskokaman 2 weeks ago
@TheMuskokaman, I need Matt Slick or any other apologist or expert because they are EXPERTS. Come on dude, do you not understand the concept of learning and education. it doesnt come from reading stones formed by themselves does it? You learn from experts who wrote them down. Do you think that I can answer every possible question you could fathom? Who do you think I am? Where did you get your answers from? Did you make them up yourself? Or did you travel back in time?
killiefan24 2 weeks ago
@TheMuskokaman, Not understanding something certainly doesnt make you seem foolish either. In fact many of the wisest and most intelligent men clearly state that the more they know and learn, the more they realise how little they actually know about everything. Your statement is an extremely arrogant and foolish one. Do you understand everything or even have an answer for everything. I think not. So you just proved yourself foolish in trying to prove me foolish. Well done there.
killiefan24 2 weeks ago
@killiefan24 Actually I do have the answers it is you who does not!
TheMuskokaman 2 weeks ago
@TheMuskokaman, btw I answered your tedious question. That's not an invite to post more. It is up to the indivdual to decide what satisfies their curiosity on the subject. You have found your answers that fit what you want to believe, and I'm satisfied with mine. Unless you have groundbreaking new evidence that completely topples everything we ever knew about anything, then your weak challenges are pointless. You dont have the answers to everything so your claim again is arrogant.
killiefan24 2 weeks ago
1.Genesis 37:28 Then there passed by Midianites merchantmen; and they drew and lifted up Joseph out of the pit, and sold Joseph to the Ishmeelites for twenty pieces of silver: and they brought Joseph into Egypt.
2.Genesis 37:36 and the Midianites sold him into Egypt unto Potiphar, an officer of Pharaoh's, and captain of the guard.
Ishmeelites are not Egyptians do you see the contradiction here?
TheMuskokaman 3 weeks ago
@Demondagger19 Can you locate these pillars for me on a geographical map? Shouldn't they be near Antartica? We must have missed them when we surveyed! 1 Samuel 2:8
He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, and lifteth up the beggar from the dunghill, to set them among princes, and to make them inherit the throne of glory: for the pillars of the earth are the LORD's, and he hath set the world upon them.
2.Job 9:6 Which shaketh the earth out of her place, and the pillars thereof tremble
TheMuskokaman 3 weeks ago
@Demondagger19
1 Are you a creationist?
2 Are you an evolutionist?
3 How old do you believe the world is?
4 How would you (yourself not a copy&paste but your own words)describe the nature of our solar system?
1 Why does it say in Isaiah 11:12 ?
And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.
The earth is a sphere there isn't a corner to be had!
TheMuskokaman 3 weeks ago
@TheMuskokaman First, before I even attempt to answer any of these questions, are you willing to except or be open to an explanation regarding these questions, along with a yes or no answer? If so, then I'll answer these questions to the best of my abilities, but if not, then no comment from me will be evident. So, what's it gonna be?
demondagger19 2 weeks ago
@demondagger19 So your saying your pleading the 5th ammendment is that it? Or are you afraid I will catch you in the lies you believe from the bible and expose your religion for what it is A FRAUD!
TheMuskokaman 2 weeks ago
@TheMuskokaman LOL, this is to hilarious lol. I'm supposed to be afrade, simply because you've presented a list of questions, and then you go on to say, answer the questions with a yes or no answer, and that no other answers will be exceptable. This is clearly (and quiet obviously) a trap question genius, and I would know this for certain, because I've also come across this in the past. You really must be out of your mind if you actually believe, that this was going to work on me. Nice try.
demondagger19 2 weeks ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@demondagger19 Please answer the following questions yes or no.
1 Do you believe Slavery is acceptible?
2 Do believe Mutilation of a baby boys penis is acceptable?
3 Do you believe it is acceptable to kill your child for being unruly?
4 Do you believe it is acceptable to Kill an Adulterous wife/husband?
Please answer these questions with only a Yes or No no other answers are acceptable
TheMuskokaman 3 weeks ago
And the fact that you even excluded yourself as an individual (interms of your own morality as opposed to another atheist), obviously proves that not every atheist views morality in the same manner as you do. So, with that being said, what exactly makes your perspective of morality, anymore or less valid then someone elses?
TheMuskokaman 3 weeks ago
@TheMuskokaman Is every Christians morals the same? If you say yes your a liar if you say no then you agree with me on representation of other peoples opinions!
TheMuskokaman 3 weeks ago
@TheMuskokaman Uh actually, the answer would be yes, why? because the morality to which the christian adhere's to, derives from an unchanging God, and not from himself, in fact, the bible describes exactly this fact (see Rom 2:15).
cont
demondagger19 2 weeks ago
@TheMuskokaman cont--Further, the same premises is also implemented into the heart of the atheist also, so, while the atheist may believe that the morality he has is derived from himself, in actuality, it's been directly given to him by God, and that's why the individual is capable of recognizing what right and wrong is.
cont
demondagger19 2 weeks ago
@TheMuskokaman cont--But however, since atheism claims to have it's own set of morals, or for that matter even defines for itself it's own standerds for morality (which makes it subjective and therefore changeable by definition), then the individuals morals are nothing more then a personal opinion, as opposed to someone elses, --cont
demondagger19 2 weeks ago
@TheMuskokaman cont--in fact, even good and evil would also be based upon an opinionated notion, instead of being based on any concrete, knowable and definitive standerds.
demondagger19 2 weeks ago
What makes you think your morality is better than anyone elses and why does it matter Demondagger19?
TheMuskokaman 3 weeks ago
@TheMuskokaman I believe I had asked you a question similar to this before hand, upon which you completly avoided by the way, but then again, this isn't really surprising to say the least.
cont
demondagger19 3 weeks ago
@TheMuskokaman cont--But to answer your question, the morality to which I adhere to, isn't from myself (which is what your implying), but rather is derived from an unchanging eternal God, and therefore do not, and cannot change, regardless of my curcumstances, ---cont
demondagger19 3 weeks ago
@TheMuskokaman cont-- and that is why I believe that the morality to which I look to, is morally more beneficial as opposed to the morality within atheism, because (again), they do not change, and because they do not change (as God is unchanging), they can always be relied upon in being completly consistant and stable no matter what.
demondagger19 3 weeks ago
cont-- in Psalm 36:5-9. His love and faithfulness reach the heavens. Amen, and I pray with you for them.
killiefan24 3 weeks ago
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killiefan24 3 weeks ago
@demondagger19, Hey pal, just wanted to say well done in your arguments. Sounds funny to say it, but your apologetics knowledge is really good. I assume you've been to the site CARM? Yeah Matt Slick would have a field day with the logical fallacies (and primitive ones at that) coming from old Muskokman, eh?! Well you can't say God didn't see him coming, check Psalms 14, 35, and 36 out. Good to read when frustrated with fools and attackers of the faith, and the answer he gives...
killiefan24 3 weeks ago
@killiefan24 Well Matt Slick better have better evidence than what you fools brought to the table! Unbelievably stupid and ridiculous arguments do not make for a win. BTW The art of semantical debate is all that you boys think you know. Using inuendo doesn't a win make either silly boys!
TheMuskokaman 3 weeks ago
@killiefan24 Seriously though how old are either of you?
TheMuskokaman 3 weeks ago
@killiefan24 "Hey pal, just wanted to say well done in your arguments."
Thank's bro, I really appreciate it allot. But primarily, I do this only for the glorification of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ, so if anyone deserves any credit for any of this, it's Christ alone, but again, thank you very much for the compliment.
cont
demondagger19 3 weeks ago
@killiefan24 "Sounds funny to say it, but your apologetics knowledge is really good. I assume you've been to the site CARM?"
First, thanks again for the compliment. And yes, I have been on the "CARM" website before, athough (sometimes) I don't normally rely on it to much on it interms of it's apologetics, usually I just simply study from other sources, not just from the "CARM" website alone. But, nonetheless, it's still a very informative website to go to. So what about you?
cont
demondagger19 3 weeks ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@killiefan24 "Yeah Matt Slick would have a field day with the logical fallacies (and primitive ones at that) coming from old Muskokman, eh?!"
Believe me bro, I already know the feeling lol. And logical fallacies are only the tip of the iceberg within atheism, it's quiet ridiculous if you logically analyze it for yourself in it's entirety.
cont
demondagger19 3 weeks ago
@killiefan24 "Well you can't say God didn't see him coming, check Psalms 14, 35, and 36 out. Good to read when frustrated with fools and attackers of the faith, and the answer he gives..."
And yet there are many more people like him all over the world, but despite their lack of respect towards God, God still loves them and wants to save them (just like who we were), from their sins as well (Rom 5:8, John 3:16).
cont
demondagger19 3 weeks ago
@killiefan24 cont--So regardless, we still need to pray that God will just open their eyes through the light of his holy unchanging word (Ps 119:105).
cont
demondagger19 3 weeks ago
@killiefan24 cont--Although the intellectual arguments are useful in some cases, and do help in leading others to Christ, ultimately, it is the Holy Spirit who opens up their darkened minds into Gods light and truth, just like peter's affirmation when he described Jesus as being the Son of God as a result of the Holy Spirits revelation to him.
cont
demondagger19 3 weeks ago
@killiefan24 cont--So in actuality, it isn't us who brings people to Christ, based on anything we say or do within and of ourselves, but it's by power of the Holy Spirit alone. So it's God who saves, while we on the other hand, do not.
demondagger19 3 weeks ago
@killiefan24 "in Psalm 36:5-9. His love and faithfulness reach the heavens. Amen, and I pray with you for them."
Thanks bro. And may the Lord keep you, and cause his love to sustain you all throughout your walk with Christ. God bless you tremendously and I mean it from my heart. Thank you. Peace.
demondagger19 3 weeks ago
@mikepulcinella. Within your scope of "religious people" I would hope you would consider Jesus Christ, on whom the entire Christian religion is based, and the fact that his life and teachings are “exhibit A” for the perfect absolute standard of morality. (contd)
killiefan24 1 month ago
@killiefan24 Well exhibit A is full of shit! The Bible is a joke if you have actually read it you would know that! It is of no more worth than an Archie comic historically and Archeologically nothing has ever been found that proves even a paragraph in the entire book.Which Jesus should I conform too the one in the Koran? Or the Jesus who will send 6 billion people to hell today if he comes back? Christianity only makes up for 12% of the world population so 88% are doomed to hell? SORRY GET ALIFE
TheMuskokaman 3 weeks ago
-cont- You're facts are completely wrong as well, as many facts have proven many truths in the Bible and non have proven anything completely false. As Matt Slick and other Apologists clearly demonstrate in their research. And again, your argument is completely illogical. If 88% of the world didn't believe in the you, would you not be real? Try again.
killiefan24 3 weeks ago
@killiefan24 BTW your facts are WRONG 100% of the time 88% of the world doesn't believe in the bible it's about 15% actually so you don't even have your facts straight little boy! Get an education then come back and we will talk!
TheMuskokaman 3 weeks ago
@TheMuskokaman, man you are thick. 1stly you came up with the figure of 88% so nice job on contradicting yourself there. I can see we're gonna get far with you. 2ndly when i used the figure it was stated as a hypothetical example so is not stated as a fact. Seriously why does anyone bother talking to you. I'm begging to wonder.
killiefan24 3 weeks ago
@killiefan24 You see that's your problem you think I am going to Become a believer because you can swing semantics and ad hominens like a baseball bat. Get some education from something other than your Bible and bible affiliated sites. FYI a dfference of 3% is negligible when one considers the bibles fallacies are 100% wrong 100% of the time!
TheMuskokaman 3 weeks ago
@TheMuskokaman, #1 I dont expect you to change nor am I trying to change you. I'm just arguing just as you are. Are you trying to win me over to your side? Because youre not doing very well.
Oh and I suppose then, I should just read whatever books you tell me to read (or not to read). Why are you trying to tell me what to believe. How does what I believe affect you?
And again your the one who stressed the importance of accurate facts and now wiggle out saying its negligble? WHAT!
killiefan24 2 weeks ago
@TheMuskokaman, Your arguments are a pitiful mockery, which lack any logic whatsoever. If you're going to make wild claims and biased opinion-based assertions, you may as well keep your mouth shut, else you look a fool as you do now. I have read the Bible and I can say for certain that it is clearly not a joke. You can choose whether or not you believe its teachings but that doesn't affect whether they're true or not. Try logic next time.
killiefan24 3 weeks ago
@killiefan24 Hey peckerhead I know your bible better than you and so far as facts... show them! Your ill-founded belief system is full of holes I have done the research perhaps you should try it and not just flap your gums with foolish Ad hominems!If your claiming logic then you haven't cross referrenced the info in the bible with other sources seperate to Christianity! A good example is the story of Joseph Who sold him to the Egyptians was it the Midianites or the Ishmaelites?
TheMuskokaman 3 weeks ago
@TheMuskokaman, "I know your bible better than you"- and your logical way of proving that statement, or even having that belief is...? Yeah, please continue these logical processes. Quite entertaining! Silly person. "You haven't cross referrenced..." same again. Wild unproved statement. How do you know I haven't. And your challenge, if that's what your offering, is so weak. Not really rocking the foundations of the faith there are we? Here's one for you, Why does that matter?
killiefan24 3 weeks ago
@killiefan24 Did you even check the story of Joseph as I suggested? No obviously not instead you sit in your chair slinging the same Christian bullshit dogma of ignorance look it up Stupid!
TheMuskokaman 3 weeks ago
@TheMuskokaman, I'm already aware of your argument, and I directed you to an apologist who can answer your needy questioning all day if you want, but a very brief summary would be to suggest that the groups may have been the same or synonymous and that is according to a historical scholar so dont tell me I just made it up. There now you try answering for a change, what significance does that bear to the discussion?
killiefan24 2 weeks ago
@killiefan24 Now your calling me a liar and your telling me what I know! Do you see how ignorant you are? You tell me I haven't crossreferrenced anything when I tell you I have. In that case GO FUCK YOURSELF! Your grammar tells volumes about the level of education you have if nothing else!
TheMuskokaman 3 weeks ago
@TheMuskokaman, never called you a liar (I said you contradicted yourself, while trying to ridicule me, and basically pointed out that your factually ignorant of your own nonsense and not even capable of carrying out a logical conversation. Sad but true). AND never accused you of not crossreferrencing anything- try learning what quotation marks mean, before you even start to talk about grammar, fool. My career deals with grammar. You have erred again. Try harder next time.
killiefan24 2 weeks ago
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@killiefan24 YES YOU DID! THESE ARE YOUR WORDS!
Yeah, please continue these logical processes. Quite entertaining! Silly person. "You haven't cross referrenced..." same again. Wild unproved statement. How do you know I haven't. And your challenge, if that's what your offering, is so weak. Not really rocking the foundations of the faith there are we? Here's one for you, Why does that matter?
TheMuskokaman 2 weeks ago
@TheMuskokaman, Wow, you are frustratingly thick and just dont get it do you. A quotation mark means that I'm quoting YOUR WORDS!!! Thats why I told you to learn what quotation marks means. I quoted your statement when you told me that I hadnt crossreferenced and I said it was the same as before in that you were making illogical and frankly incorrect assumptions. Wake up, and pull your head out of your rear.
killiefan24 2 weeks ago
@TheMuskokaman, btw, its a commonly understood idea that youtube and other internet chatting facilities are not to be taken as grammatically and spelling perfect ever, due their nature and UNIMPORTANCE in the grand scheme. Which is why I dont waste time correcting yours.
AND where do you get the idea that is okay to just curse me out because you get upset (over your misunderstanding btw), and then again try to insult me in retalliation? Very immature and ultimately illogical.
killiefan24 2 weeks ago
And for the rest of us, if you understood the nature of humanity correctly you would know that it is impossible for us to keep to that standard or even any nearer to it than anyone else. So we can have this conversation now. If you can find someone else who lives up to a higher standard of morality then you can talk. But you won’t obviously.
killiefan24 1 month ago
When religious people begin to exhibit a morality superior to the rest of us, then we can have this conversation.
mikepulcinella 1 month ago
"You need to act in a way where if everyone did the same thing, things would work out."
Louis CK
That's morality.
mikepulcinella 1 month ago
awsome argument.. thankyou for posting this.. atheists cant account fr moral objectivety.
6gunwalker 2 months ago
I think it would add to the argument that atheism fails to give an accurate definition of evil. They come up with something they would call evil and label it as immoral. But what is evil? Evil is something that goes against a universal purpose. Atheism has no other option except that there is no universal purpose. Therefore there is no good or evil. No morality subjective or objective.
killiefan24 3 months ago
@killiefan24 True. In an atheistic perspective, morality can be whatever the individual wants it to be.
demondagger19 1 month ago
@demondagger19 Where did you get that Idea? Morality doesn't come from a book! It comes from well reasoned arguments derived within a social landscape. Atheists morality is 100% of the time more moral than any religous teachings ever made on this planet!
TheMuskokaman 3 weeks ago
@TheMuskokaman First, that wasn't an idea that I just simply made up. cont
demondagger19 3 weeks ago
@TheMuskokaman *this wasn't*
Please take the time out to think about this for just a second, if God does not exist, (which means that there are no objective unchanging morals beyond ourselves from an unchanging eternal deity), then morality itself, is nothing more then a subjective notion that the individual (based on his or hers own particular situation) can change according to their own ideals of what he/she feels or believes is morally good according to their own perspectives.
cont
demondagger19 3 weeks ago
@demondagger19 What a load of garbled nonsense! Hey instead of trying to impress me with your nonsensical circular reasoning YOU should think about it! Morality is dependent on perspective but we are talking generally not psuedo bullshit that uses 1 case to make a point across the entire spectrum. When is lying beneficial? When is stealing beneficial? When is murder beneficial? These 3 are the only true morality as humans we can adhere too. BTW they have their origins long before Christ!
TheMuskokaman 3 weeks ago
@TheMuskokaman "When is lying beneficial? When is stealing beneficial? When is murder beneficial? These 3 are the only true morality as humans we can adhere too."
But you as an atheist can't know that for certain, since (again) there are no moral absolutes.
cont
demondagger19 3 weeks ago
@demondagger19 Your argument is circular reasoned sorry! Absolute means nothing since everything is in a constant state of change therefore there are no Absolutes of any kind only probabilities.
Next you infer that because I am an Atheist I can't know for certain! Once again. How Absurd! My position is the one of default I make no claims of absolution and If you do then you are full of shit! Claim what it is you are defending and quit rambling!
TheMuskokaman 3 weeks ago
@TheMuskokaman Uh, but that's apart of the problem smart guy. You say that "everything is in a constant state of change therefore there are no Absolutes of any kind only probabilities.",
cont
demondagger19 3 weeks ago
@demondagger19 Well at least you know who is smart!
TheMuskokaman 3 weeks ago
@TheMuskokaman cont-- well, let's think about what your saying here for just a moment, if everything is in a constant state of change, then evidently the individuals morals must change along with it,--cont
demondagger19 3 weeks ago
@demondagger19 Silly Christian circular reasoning is for kids!
TheMuskokaman 3 weeks ago
@TheMuskokaman cont-- but with that being said, if the individuals morals (because they are liable to change as I've mentioned before) can be effected by change due to a constantly changing world, then it begs the question as to the accuracy regarding the individuals morals themselves,---cont
demondagger19 3 weeks ago
@TheMuskokaman cont-- because, if the individuals morals are always changing along with everything surrounding the individual, then the determining affermation in (absolutely knowing) whether or not something's right or wrong is left with nothing more then a question mark, so the person wouldn't be able to know for certain ether way, all he/she can do however, is only assume or guess, but he/she can't know for certain, and that's the problem.
cont
demondagger19 3 weeks ago
@demondagger19 no silly your belief is the problem nothing else
TheMuskokaman 3 weeks ago
@TheMuskokaman cont-- And while it's true that probabilities may be accurate sometimes depending on the situation, the fact that even probabilities are a result of an ongoing already changing morality, still makes it unreliable regardless due to it's changing origins, --cont
demondagger19 3 weeks ago
@demondagger19 are you finished making yourself a fool yet?
TheMuskokaman 3 weeks ago
@TheMuskokaman cont-- so it isn't very reliable ether way, in fact, part of the problem with probabilities is that they are not always accurate, and so with that criteria, why then, or rather how then can we rely on it for assurance? In short, we can't.
demondagger19 3 weeks ago
@demondagger19 well u have convinced yourself at least
TheMuskokaman 3 weeks ago
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@TheMuskokaman "well u have convinced yourself at least"
Uh, I didn't have to convince myself of anything in order to know this to be true. We know this to be true because it's a fact, probabilities are based on chance depending on the circumstances, not concrete validity.
demondagger19 3 weeks ago
@demondagger19 anyway have fun with that a couple just showed up and we're having an orgy with them and the neighbours in fact my neighbours wife is sucking my cock while i type this gotta go this is distracting me have fun
TheMuskokaman 3 weeks ago
@TheMuskokaman ......I don't see why you felt the need to even mention that sort of thing to me to begin with (which is completly inappropriate). But I will keep you in my prayers and pray that the Lord will both save and change your heart. Jesus came to die for your sins, and to also save you from this lost and dying world. And I just hope that one day you'll come to know the God of the bible. He loves you and cares about you and I pray that you'll open your eyes to this reality one day. Peace.
demondagger19 3 weeks ago
@demondagger19 You delusional little man Jesus is DEAD! has been fo 1975 years now. My statement was meant more for shock value than truth because you are wasting my time and yours perpetuating this little debate. Young man I know your Bible inside and out that is why I fight you so vehemently. I will never go back to Christianity or any belief based system because they are all wrong. They put emphasis on after death not paying attention to here and now! The Kingdom of heaven is at hand NOW!
TheMuskokaman 3 weeks ago
@TheMuskokaman "I will never go back to Christianity"
Actually, the fact that you willingly chose to leave christianity in the first place (based on your own ideals), is the very result that you were never a true christian, or for that matter, ever a true believer in christ to begin with, so evidently, this is a categorically false statement on your behalf (see 1 John Chapter 2).
cont
demondagger19 3 weeks ago
@demondagger19 Please answer the following questions yes or no.
1 Do you believe Slavery is acceptible?
2 Do believe Mutilation of a baby boys penis is acceptable?
3 Do you believe it is acceptable to kill your child for being unruly?
4 Do you believe it is acceptable to Kill an Adulterous wife/husband?
Please answer these questions with only a Yes or No no other answers are acceptable
TheMuskokaman 3 weeks ago
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@TheMuskokaman "Please answer these questions with only a Yes or No no other answers are acceptable"
First, notice that you said "No other answers are acceptable", this however is completly ridiculous from the start, why? because your trying to present your questions as though there are no other options (or even a need for an explanation), when in actuality, there are other options and a need for an explanation, --- cont
demondagger19 3 weeks ago
@TheMuskokaman cont--so your premise for even asking these questions are completly flawed from the beginning.
cont
demondagger19 3 weeks ago
@demondagger19 you never answered and until you do were done talking!
TheMuskokaman 3 weeks ago
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@TheMuskokaman "you never answered and until you do were done talking!"
Actually, interms of your other previouse questions that you recently asked (prior to the question that you're now asking), I did in fact, answer your questions, and again, the many comments that I posted ealier regarding your questions, is evidence of that, yet you clearly refuse to except it.
cont
demondagger19 2 weeks ago
@TheMuskokaman cont-- And secondly, unless you're willing to except an explanation (along with a yes or no answer), then I guess this conversation is over. If you seriously think that I don't recognize what you're trying to do, then you must be as foolish as you sound right now, the format of your question is clearly a trap question (as I would describe it), since it's notion clearly excludes any or all other applications. Nice attempt, but sadly, you've failed.
cont
demondagger19 2 weeks ago
@TheMuskokaman cont--But hey, if it makes you feel any better, I will admite that you almost got me that time.....even though anyone with a brain can clearly see just how poorly constructed your use of argumentation is lol. Hey, I'll even bet (and I'm only speculating here), that you derived some of your questions from some atheist website, am I right lol?
demondagger19 2 weeks ago
@TheMuskokaman cont-- Actually, this also begs the question as to why an explanation wouldn't also need to be in conjunction, along with answering the questions being asked? And further, I was already aware that the depiction of your question (or rather the format of it), is an attempt in trying to trap me by trying to exclude any and all other options. LOL nice try, but could you have been anymore obviouse lol?
demondagger19 3 weeks ago
@TheMuskokaman cont--"Young man I know your Bible inside and out that is why I fight you so vehemently."
On the contrary, it's quiet obviouse that you haven't the slightest clue as to what the bible actually teaches, and you've clearly demonstrated that based on your flawed view of christianity to begin with.
cont
demondagger19 3 weeks ago
@demondagger19 Is that why you haven't answered my questions? I can quote scripture all day bud and night too. I was going to ministry school to become a Methodist minister @ Amridge university when my actual revelation happened.This is no lie it's what really happened and I'm sad for you if you do not believe me but I understand if you do not wish too. I practiced Christianity for 42 years since my parents took me to Church as a baby. I understand indoctrination much better than you think I do
TheMuskokaman 3 weeks ago
@TheMuskokaman "Is that why you haven't answered my questions? I can quote scripture all day bud and night too."
First, I actually have answered many of your questions, and all you have to do is look at the many previous comments that I've recently provided as evidence.
cont
demondagger19 3 weeks ago
@TheMuskokaman cont--Secondly, what's your point? even a "Muslim Apologist" can quote scripture just as adequately as anyone else, but that still doesn't make the individual a christian, regardless. So that isn't really a valid point to begin with.
cont
demondagger19 3 weeks ago
@TheMuskokaman " I practiced Christianity for 42 years since my parents took me to Church as a baby. I understand indoctrination much better than you think I do"
Uh, simply because you were indoctrinated as a child for 42 years, and were also raised into believing the teachings of christianity (based on your own experiance as a child), doesn't mean however that everyone else who have been a christian way longer then you have, has experianced or came to christianity in the same manner, --cont
demondagger19 3 weeks ago
@TheMuskokaman cont-- why? because (for example) there are some who may not have even grown up into a christian house hold all throughout their entire lives and then later on, chooses to except christianity due to their own personal convictions. --cont
demondagger19 3 weeks ago
@TheMuskokaman cont-- So the notion that one becomes a christian, or is a christian or is considerd to be a christian, simply because of their parents or because of the environment to which he/she grows up in (which is what your implying), is complete nonsense, and is entirly based on a stereotypical generalization.
cont
demondagger19 3 weeks ago
@TheMuskokaman cont--So essentially, your experiance doesn't account for every christian out there, nor for anyone else in general for that matter. So that's a pretty weak argument.
cont
demondagger19 3 weeks ago
@TheMuskokaman cont--And (again) just because you professed to be a christian (simply because you grew up in a christian house hold and excepted the christian faith because of your parents), doesn't make you a christian according to what the bible teaches, regarding as to what a christian is.
cont
demondagger19 3 weeks ago
@demondagger19 Unless you answer the questions with a yes or no were done talking!
TheMuskokaman 3 weeks ago
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@TheMuskokaman "Unless you answer the questions with a yes or no were done talking!"
Uh, why? because you say so lol? Here's a questionable thought for you genius, why aren't you willing to except an explanation, along with a yes or no answer also? Unless of course your objective is to simply try and trap me, based on the premise and format of your question (which you obviously are trying to do) lol. Do yourself a favor and quite while your ahead, because your attempts aren't going to work.
demondagger19 2 weeks ago
@TheMuskokaman cont--And (FYI), no one indoctrinated me into the christian faith, and as hard as this might be for you to realize, not everyone of us where forced into just simply excepting whatever our parents believed, although it's quiet obviouse that you apparently did, but I (unlike you), did not, I was actually able to think for myself, it's just sad that you weren't given the same opportunity as a child.
demondagger19 3 weeks ago
@TheMuskokaman, Id be surprised if any of your little tale were true, for a few reasons. For one, I have heard that exact story before from several other angry atheist on the net trying to sound as though they have some authoritive understanding, and also because all your arguements up to this point show a clear lack of real learning, critical thinking, and oh yeah- maturity. I would put money on the fact that you're not over 30. Try to be original next time pal.
killiefan24 2 weeks ago
@TheMuskokaman "They put emphasis on after death not paying attention to here and now! The Kingdom of heaven is at hand NOW!"
That's because the "here and now", is evidently, and is slowly fading away each day. The bottom line is this, everything in this life eventually dies, it's that simple, nothing lasts forever. So with that being said, which is more important? the "here and now" which is going to eventually die out?, or the eternal world which is to come?
cont
demondagger19 3 weeks ago
@TheMuskokaman cont-- And (FYI), the "Kingdom of God" isn't this world, but rather, a spiritual world (or kingdom) that is beyond this physical world. Please, the next time around, I would advise you in actually learning to get your biblical facts straight before making any statements like that.
demondagger19 3 weeks ago
@demondagger19 Look it DD read some of my more recent comments to other posts you have made. There is nothing you can tell me about the bible I don't understand so please stop posturing as though you were better versed than I
TheMuskokaman 3 weeks ago
@TheMuskokaman "Next you infer that because I am an Atheist I can't know for certain! Once again. How Absurd!"
Lol, there's nothing absurd about it at all, because you haven't provided any evidence for as to how you can know for certain, and would you like to know why? because as an atheist your morals are always constantly changing which makes it unpredictable for you to know for sure ether way, and that's why.
cont
demondagger19 3 weeks ago
@TheMuskokaman So essentially, your morals are primarily based on only assuming that (based on your own standard of morality) that somethings ether morally right or morally wrong, but you yourself can't be certain of that assuridly, due to the ongoing and constant changing nature of your own morality according to your subjective inclination.
cont
demondagger19 3 weeks ago
@TheMuskokaman cont--Your practically just shooting in the dark, and assuming that based on your own moral standered that what you believe is morally correct, is correct, without actually knowing with any assurance, and that's pretty troubling.
demondagger19 3 weeks ago
@TheMuskokaman cont--And while it's true that you can adere to them as a basis for morality for yourself (as an individual), however, since morality can be changed, and is completly subject to the person themselves, the moral premises that you've provided may differ from person to person according to the individuals themselves and their perspectives.
cont
demondagger19 3 weeks ago
@TheMuskokaman cont-- So in ether case, your notion is still unreliable and untrustworthy, in fact, since absolute morals don't exist, how are you even certain that (based on the moral premises that you've provided) that your notion is even correct to begin with?
cont
demondagger19 3 weeks ago
@demondagger19 Hey Freud boy back to reality here .............that's it a little more.......There there we got you a nice room with padded walls and everything
TheMuskokaman 3 weeks ago
@TheMuskokaman cont--The problem with this logic, is that what may be morally good for you personally, may not be looked upon in the same manner for someone else depending on the other person themselves, why? because it is not absolute. So in essence, as an atheist, morality is up for grabs, regardless of who the person may be.
demondagger19 3 weeks ago
@demondagger19 Claim your stance Mr. Christian funny how you block your homepage! what? are you out trolling?............or just too cowardly to show your true colours? You make no point!
TheMuskokaman 3 weeks ago
@TheMuskokaman cont--But there in lies the problem, if morality is entirly subjective, and can change according to the individual themselves depending on their situation, then how can he or she be entirly certain that what he or she feels is morally correct (or not), is correct with absolute certainty simply because he or she believes so?
cont
demondagger19 3 weeks ago
@TheMuskokaman cont--And secondly, you said that an "Atheists morality is 100% of the time more moral than any religous teachings ever made on this planet!", but that begs the question, because in an atheistic perspective there are no moral absolutes, and therefore because there are no moral absolutes, morality itself would liable to change at anytime.
cont
demondagger19 3 weeks ago
@demondagger19 Atheists morality (and I don't speak for them all but I believe I share a common moral compass with most Atheists) is derived from common sense of all knowledge at our disposal. Your argument that it could change at anytime is plausible but highly unlikely.What has to be remembered here is the individual and that each individual is responsible for his/her own moral compass. Do you think that because someone becomes an atheist that they just lose all morality? How Absurd a notion!
TheMuskokaman 3 weeks ago
@TheMuskokaman Is it alright to hide a family of Jews being hunted by the Nazi's in your house and lie about their whereabouts when they come calling?ABSOLUTELY You did it to protect the lives of the family Is it alright when you steal a loaf of bread because you are starving?Absolutely you are doing it for your own self preservation not with malice! Is it alright for a woman who was raped to have an Abortion because having the baby may jeporadize her life?ABSOLUTELYShe was assaulted maliciously
TheMuskokaman 3 weeks ago
@TheMuskokaman Lol, well, the same question can also be phrased in this manner by asking "is it wrong to cheat on your spouse, even though it's not hurting anyone else physically in the process?", the answer is an obviouse yes, why? because even though sexually it may be pleasurable to the individual committing the sexual act itself, morally on the other hand, it is still wrong even though it may provide sexual relief for the individual committing the act of adultry in the process.
cont
demondagger19 3 weeks ago
@demondagger19 The answer maybe yes but not because of the reason you stated rather if you are married then you entered into a contract that is legal and binding and swore an oath of allegiance to that person forsaking all others until death do you part. That is different that is breaking your oath which in turn makes you a liar as well as violation of your contract. Tsk Tsk 2 strikes on 1 pitch!
TheMuskokaman 3 weeks ago
@TheMuskokaman And yet this very same concept is applied in regards to the commandments of God according to the bible.
cont
demondagger19 3 weeks ago
@demondagger19 epic fail there are no commandments from god only men who think they are god because there is no god
TheMuskokaman 3 weeks ago
@TheMuskokaman cont-- In scripture (as a sinful and fallen race), naturally our only impulse is to sin without realising it, so it shouldn't be surprising that such traits such as lying, steeling, committing adultry or anything thing of that nature would be evident, why? because it's apart of who we are, our entire human nature (to the core) is completly corrupted because of sin.
cont
demondagger19 3 weeks ago
@demondagger19 wrong we are not corrupt because of sin! why didn"t you just get to the point that your morals are derived from the bible and we coulda saved alot of time
TheMuskokaman 3 weeks ago
@TheMuskokaman cont--So it's no accident that you would go so far as to even justifying it as being morally okay even though according to Gods Law, it is still wrong regardless. Everytime we lie, steel, or do ether of the two, we violate his holy Law (which are essentially his decrees of how humanity is to function, and is also a reflection of his eternal and unchanging nature or character).
cont
demondagger19 3 weeks ago
@demondagger19 There is no Gods Law you stupid fuck!
TheMuskokaman 3 weeks ago
@TheMuskokaman cont-- So his commandments are in fact like a contract that he relays to his creation, which (if breached or broken) will result in certain consiquences.
cont
demondagger19 3 weeks ago
@TheMuskokaman cont-- Also, it's quiet obviouse that you completly misunderstood my analogy regarding adultry, my point was that, even though the act of adultry maybe sexually pleasurable regarding the individual, however, in Gods perspective, it is still absolutly wrong regardless of the positive results of it, a sin is a sin regardless, and as such, doesn't make it justifiably okay just because you personally believe it is.
cont
demondagger19 3 weeks ago
@demondagger19 WRONG WRONG WRONG Get a fucking brain You stupid Christian fuck!
TheMuskokaman 3 weeks ago