UNIVERSAL SALVATION was for me a HERESY, people pleasing idea until I saw passages like this.
Romans 5:19 "for as through the disobedience of the one man,THE MANY were constituted sinners: so also through the obedience of the one, shall THE MANY be constituted righteous."
If you take the book of revelation as the end of Gods plan then of course universal salvation would not make sense; but if you look at Paul's writings and see God will be "all in ALL" then you see love Never fails.
The wickedness in peoples minds refuse to understand this. Remember it was Satan who said "I WILL BE LIKE THE MOST HIGH" so like wise he will be in hell attacking people like the churches teaches.it is written for God so loved the world he gave his only son they whoever believes should not perish but have eternal life. When why if the things of the church are right, do those people in "HELL" have ever lasting life Too? SEE WITH GREATER EYES PEOPLE.
RIGHT!! the worm dieth not= the maggots that feasted on the dead carcasses of animals and people that were thrown into the garbage dump, some of the carcasses landed on rocks and bushes etc and did not make it down to the garbage pit to be burned up. so much platoism and dantes inferno have captured the minds on billions.Peace to you
RIGHT!! the worm dieth not= the maggots that feasted on the dead carcasses of animals and people that were thrown into the garbage dump, some of the carcasses landed on rocks and bushes etc and did not make it down to the garbage pit. so much platoism and dantes inferno have captured the minds on billions.Peace to you
your argument is biblical, reasonable and sober-minded. I would only say that any believer who has suffered the chastizement of God recognizes it as both merciful and agonizing, and it does consume carnality. The psalms are full of graphic descriptions of that.
@mtzion211 (part 2) ..translated it signifies to consign to Tartarus, which is neither Sheol nor Hades nor Hell, but the place where those angels whose special sin is referred to in that passage are confined “to be reserved unto judgement;" the region is described as pits of darkness.
So what about 1 Peter 3:18-20? Jesus didn't talk to people in Hell like it said? And Hell is not eternal? Just because it doesn't seem fair? The Devil deceives people, & they harden their heart towards God, they REJECT Him.
You are ridiculous. You think after all these years you and a handful of other people suddenly came up with the Truth? And God is mysterious & you know so little? Yet you feel that you're right? God isn't so mysterious, if you've noticed, he works in patterns.
@TerminalMontage Ok...I will reply but I have found most of the time it is not worth it! 1 Peter 3 18-20 is speaking of the spirits that Jesus came to preach to and set free. Remember, He come to set the captives free. This is not preaching in hell! Is that what you believe....really? Compare to Isaiah 42:7 and 61:1. 61:1 is the passage that Jesus quoted in the temple. ...to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound. Sound similar to 1 Peter?
@TerminalMontage Sooooo. The passage doesn't say that Jesus went to hell. The passage states that He preached to the spirits in prison.....you are honestly misunderstanding the passage. Also I never stated that hell is not eternal....in fact I stated that it is eternal. The punishing is not eternal but the punishment is eternal. Death is eternal with no chance of redemption. The truth is the truth. Believe it or not. Many in the Bible have been mocked for the truth so be careful.
@mtzion211 (part 1) Okay, pardon me for being belligerent, I see what Isaiah 42:7 & 61:1 are getting at, but are they really the same as 1 Peter 3:18-20? In Verse 20 specifically it says that He spoke to the spirits before the flood. You're right, spirit isn't used in the Bible in terms of the dead, but it is used in terms of angelic beings. II Peter 2:4-5, “cast them down to hell” is one word in the Greek text the verb tartaroo..
@TerminalMontage It's not that hell is not eternal, but that the greek words underneath "hell" and "eternal" meant other than what they are presented as today. Also, it is not a handful of people who recently came to see this, the bible itself is witness against the improper definitions, as recognized by more than a handful of the earliest church fathers.
blah blah blah to the law and testimony blah blah ok you can say whatever it is that you want ,but those who read and understand the bible will leave behind all of your pagan preconceived ideas of a place of eternal torture. peope like yourself are totally inane,yes you taotog!
Isa 8:20 "To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them."
Your arguments sound reasonable to the natural man I am sure because they appeal to the flesh. Your teachings are in contradiction to the clear teachings of God's Word and you sir are a false prophet and a deceiver fulfilling 2 Tim 4:3-4. A warning to his listeners, this man's teachings will land you into the eternal Hell he denies. DO NOT BE DECEIVED.
Okay, let us say that the average person who goes to hell committed 490 sins every day. He lived 30, 000 days, and maybe caused 20 people to stumble. Do you think that he might be tortured for 294, 000, 000 seconds which works out to 9.3 years? That would suck. But at least it wouldn't be for an eternity.
MTZ Enjoyed the video. I have a couple references you may or may not have come across touching on the unquenchable fire,eternal fire,forever,word usages. Jude7(notice 'eternal fire'), then going to 2Pet2:6. Jer17:27 9 Is the fire that shall not be quenched still burning today?, Ex21:6(Is the servant still serving his master today?),1Sam1:22,28 The unquenchable fire simply means the fire will burn until the material or body is completely consumed. For ever lasts until the mortal dies.
Thank you for posting. We pretty much agree here. I do see the fire as metaphorical. We are to fear the one that can destroy body and soul in hell fire or gehenna. The body may seem to indicate a physical fire though I see it all as symbolic. Otherwise it sounds like we agree. God bless you!
@potooth i would take your idea one step further to propose that "flesh" is carnal, and it is carnality that is burned out of us. " The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings? He that walketh righteously, and speaketh uprightly; he that despiseth the gain of oppressions, that shaketh his hands from holding of bribes..."
Indeed, "hades" is the grave (1Cor.15:55). In the LXX, the word "sheol" (grave, hell, pit) is translated as "hades". The only Greek word that has anything at all to do with "a place of burning" is the word "gehenna". Even this word is symbolic of the "valley of Hinnom" south of Jerusalem. "Gehenna" is the lake of fire where the wicked will be destroyed, along with Satan and his angels.
Thank you for posting. I am glad that we agree on this subject. However I do have a different opinion on the lake of fire in Revelation 20. I see Revelation from a different perspective. You can watch my other videos or read some articles on my site if you are interested. Thanks again and God bless you!
@mtzion211 Hello my Brother...You and I have never argued an issue and never will. We have always come to reason on the same level of meaning or realize to continue our search. Its always important for people and us to keep II Timothy 3:16 in the back of our minds when sharing scriptures with each other. 2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: This keeps us open minded.
@mtzion211 On this video you seemed to have pulled out and studied all the scriptures concerning an eternel hell. So I wont go into giving scriptures. However, we can never weigh so many other scriptures above one other. That one scripture is just as important. Remember II Timothy 3:16? We must realize that revelations of Gods word is like finding a needle in the haystack and the one scripture we ignore can be that needle.
@mtzion211 Call it Hell, Hades, Underworld, Pluto and Goofy. There are other places and levels of “outer darkness” where the Devil and tormenting demons live. Within the Grave there is an “outer darkness”, where the souls of the wicked are sent for punishment. The names may be questionable, but, the final judgement is the Lake of Fire and whose names are not found in the Lambs book of Life. Jesus is the door and there is no other way can a person enter into heaven.
Historically, it is Rome that has endorsed purgatory, and still does. It is Rome that has insisted on the unconditional immortality of the soul, and still does to this day. It is Rome that has insisted that prayers be made to the dead (saints, Mary...etc.). This is historical fact, and if certain factions of Romanism today are veering from that to a more liberal view, then it is only to suck people into their system.
BTW-- I believe "hell" will be torturous- just not continual.
I was mistaken, I thought I was responding to a Christian. Yes, indeed, to the unregenerate, atheistic, self-worshiping "world", the total destruction of the wicked by fire is a scary thing. Mostly because it is a truthful teaching. And please remember that the unregenerate have a knowledge of God, but they willingly suppress this knowledge (Rom.1:18-32). In this, they will stand in God's judgment having no defense for their ignorance.
"Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can DESTROY BOTH SOUL and BODY in hell." Matthew 10:28
When we tell a story(parable) these days, it goes a little like this: "Once upon a time" etc.. Looking at some parables in Luke they goes: Luke 14:16 A certain man made made a great supper, and bade many. Luke 15:11 A certain man had two sons. Luke 16:1 There was a certain rich man, which had a steward... Luke 16:19 Their was a certain rich man that was clothe in purple... Luke 19:12 A certain nobleman went... Luke 20:9 A certain man planted... You can easily see, they are all parables.
Most people know that these are all parables, but some people believe all these are parables except Luke 16:19. They can easily see that these parables starts off pretty much the same, and they admit that the rest of them are parables, but because of their beliefs, they take and twist this parable to fit their teachings(beliefs). But the truth is that, it is a parable, and the bible is not wrong, it is the person belief that is wrong. IF it was true, then it will go against bible teachings.
Thanks for posting! I believe that we are in agreement. I have a video on this parable. I believe it is about faith and works, Jew and Gentile. Thanks again and God bless! Tom
Again we will have to agree to disagree. The Cross wasn't fair either but yet it happen. "My thought are not your thoughts and my ways are not your ways." GBU
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UNIVERSAL SALVATION was for me a HERESY, people pleasing idea until I saw passages like this.
Romans 5:19 "for as through the disobedience of the one man,THE MANY were constituted sinners: so also through the obedience of the one, shall THE MANY be constituted righteous."
If you take the book of revelation as the end of Gods plan then of course universal salvation would not make sense; but if you look at Paul's writings and see God will be "all in ALL" then you see love Never fails.
motibi 5 months ago
The wickedness in peoples minds refuse to understand this. Remember it was Satan who said "I WILL BE LIKE THE MOST HIGH" so like wise he will be in hell attacking people like the churches teaches.it is written for God so loved the world he gave his only son they whoever believes should not perish but have eternal life. When why if the things of the church are right, do those people in "HELL" have ever lasting life Too? SEE WITH GREATER EYES PEOPLE.
Thegreyraccoon 11 months ago
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RIGHT!! the worm dieth not= the maggots that feasted on the dead carcasses of animals and people that were thrown into the garbage dump, some of the carcasses landed on rocks and bushes etc and did not make it down to the garbage pit to be burned up. so much platoism and dantes inferno have captured the minds on billions.Peace to you
itsallamindgame 1 year ago
RIGHT!! the worm dieth not= the maggots that feasted on the dead carcasses of animals and people that were thrown into the garbage dump, some of the carcasses landed on rocks and bushes etc and did not make it down to the garbage pit. so much platoism and dantes inferno have captured the minds on billions.Peace to you
itsallamindgame 1 year ago
your argument is biblical, reasonable and sober-minded. I would only say that any believer who has suffered the chastizement of God recognizes it as both merciful and agonizing, and it does consume carnality. The psalms are full of graphic descriptions of that.
sailing19100 1 year ago
@mtzion211 (part 2) ..translated it signifies to consign to Tartarus, which is neither Sheol nor Hades nor Hell, but the place where those angels whose special sin is referred to in that passage are confined “to be reserved unto judgement;" the region is described as pits of darkness.
TerminalMontage 1 year ago
So what about 1 Peter 3:18-20? Jesus didn't talk to people in Hell like it said? And Hell is not eternal? Just because it doesn't seem fair? The Devil deceives people, & they harden their heart towards God, they REJECT Him.
You are ridiculous. You think after all these years you and a handful of other people suddenly came up with the Truth? And God is mysterious & you know so little? Yet you feel that you're right? God isn't so mysterious, if you've noticed, he works in patterns.
TerminalMontage 1 year ago
@TerminalMontage Ok...I will reply but I have found most of the time it is not worth it! 1 Peter 3 18-20 is speaking of the spirits that Jesus came to preach to and set free. Remember, He come to set the captives free. This is not preaching in hell! Is that what you believe....really? Compare to Isaiah 42:7 and 61:1. 61:1 is the passage that Jesus quoted in the temple. ...to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound. Sound similar to 1 Peter?
mtzion211 1 year ago
@TerminalMontage Sooooo. The passage doesn't say that Jesus went to hell. The passage states that He preached to the spirits in prison.....you are honestly misunderstanding the passage. Also I never stated that hell is not eternal....in fact I stated that it is eternal. The punishing is not eternal but the punishment is eternal. Death is eternal with no chance of redemption. The truth is the truth. Believe it or not. Many in the Bible have been mocked for the truth so be careful.
mtzion211 1 year ago 3
@mtzion211 (part 1) Okay, pardon me for being belligerent, I see what Isaiah 42:7 & 61:1 are getting at, but are they really the same as 1 Peter 3:18-20? In Verse 20 specifically it says that He spoke to the spirits before the flood. You're right, spirit isn't used in the Bible in terms of the dead, but it is used in terms of angelic beings. II Peter 2:4-5, “cast them down to hell” is one word in the Greek text the verb tartaroo..
TerminalMontage 1 year ago
@TerminalMontage It's not that hell is not eternal, but that the greek words underneath "hell" and "eternal" meant other than what they are presented as today. Also, it is not a handful of people who recently came to see this, the bible itself is witness against the improper definitions, as recognized by more than a handful of the earliest church fathers.
sailing19100 1 year ago
blah blah blah to the law and testimony blah blah ok you can say whatever it is that you want ,but those who read and understand the bible will leave behind all of your pagan preconceived ideas of a place of eternal torture. peope like yourself are totally inane,yes you taotog!
timsh6 1 year ago
His arguments are reasonable,god is a consuming fire ,not a tyrant who tortures sinners endlessly!
timsh6 1 year ago
he denies the word of god,or is it that he denies what your blinded tradition teaches?
timsh6 1 year ago
Isa 8:20 "To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them."
Your arguments sound reasonable to the natural man I am sure because they appeal to the flesh. Your teachings are in contradiction to the clear teachings of God's Word and you sir are a false prophet and a deceiver fulfilling 2 Tim 4:3-4. A warning to his listeners, this man's teachings will land you into the eternal Hell he denies. DO NOT BE DECEIVED.
Taotog 1 year ago
Okay, let us say that the average person who goes to hell committed 490 sins every day. He lived 30, 000 days, and maybe caused 20 people to stumble. Do you think that he might be tortured for 294, 000, 000 seconds which works out to 9.3 years? That would suck. But at least it wouldn't be for an eternity.
LifeIsABigPuzzle 1 year ago
Viva la verdad!
josie8869 2 years ago
MTZ Enjoyed the video. I have a couple references you may or may not have come across touching on the unquenchable fire,eternal fire,forever,word usages. Jude7(notice 'eternal fire'), then going to 2Pet2:6. Jer17:27 9 Is the fire that shall not be quenched still burning today?, Ex21:6(Is the servant still serving his master today?),1Sam1:22,28 The unquenchable fire simply means the fire will burn until the material or body is completely consumed. For ever lasts until the mortal dies.
Thank you
potooth 2 years ago
Thank you for posting. We pretty much agree here. I do see the fire as metaphorical. We are to fear the one that can destroy body and soul in hell fire or gehenna. The body may seem to indicate a physical fire though I see it all as symbolic. Otherwise it sounds like we agree. God bless you!
mtzion211 2 years ago
@potooth i would take your idea one step further to propose that "flesh" is carnal, and it is carnality that is burned out of us. " The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings? He that walketh righteously, and speaketh uprightly; he that despiseth the gain of oppressions, that shaketh his hands from holding of bribes..."
sailing19100 1 year ago
Indeed, "hades" is the grave (1Cor.15:55). In the LXX, the word "sheol" (grave, hell, pit) is translated as "hades". The only Greek word that has anything at all to do with "a place of burning" is the word "gehenna". Even this word is symbolic of the "valley of Hinnom" south of Jerusalem. "Gehenna" is the lake of fire where the wicked will be destroyed, along with Satan and his angels.
rkg62976 2 years ago
Thank you for posting. I am glad that we agree on this subject. However I do have a different opinion on the lake of fire in Revelation 20. I see Revelation from a different perspective. You can watch my other videos or read some articles on my site if you are interested. Thanks again and God bless you!
mtzion211 2 years ago
@mtzion211 Hello my Brother...You and I have never argued an issue and never will. We have always come to reason on the same level of meaning or realize to continue our search. Its always important for people and us to keep II Timothy 3:16 in the back of our minds when sharing scriptures with each other. 2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: This keeps us open minded.
1Mazzaroth 4 months ago
@mtzion211 On this video you seemed to have pulled out and studied all the scriptures concerning an eternel hell. So I wont go into giving scriptures. However, we can never weigh so many other scriptures above one other. That one scripture is just as important. Remember II Timothy 3:16? We must realize that revelations of Gods word is like finding a needle in the haystack and the one scripture we ignore can be that needle.
1Mazzaroth 4 months ago
@mtzion211 Call it Hell, Hades, Underworld, Pluto and Goofy. There are other places and levels of “outer darkness” where the Devil and tormenting demons live. Within the Grave there is an “outer darkness”, where the souls of the wicked are sent for punishment. The names may be questionable, but, the final judgement is the Lake of Fire and whose names are not found in the Lambs book of Life. Jesus is the door and there is no other way can a person enter into heaven.
1Mazzaroth 4 months ago
rkg62976 Hell is NO REAL PLACE OF TORTURE. this is the latest claim from the Vatican, based on the teachings of medieval theologians.
lizazoon 2 years ago
Historically, it is Rome that has endorsed purgatory, and still does. It is Rome that has insisted on the unconditional immortality of the soul, and still does to this day. It is Rome that has insisted that prayers be made to the dead (saints, Mary...etc.). This is historical fact, and if certain factions of Romanism today are veering from that to a more liberal view, then it is only to suck people into their system.
BTW-- I believe "hell" will be torturous- just not continual.
rkg62976 2 years ago
rkg62976 : Hell is pure nonsense. If you believe in hell , you believe that god is by far the greatest tyrant EVER.
lizazoon 2 years ago
I was mistaken, I thought I was responding to a Christian. Yes, indeed, to the unregenerate, atheistic, self-worshiping "world", the total destruction of the wicked by fire is a scary thing. Mostly because it is a truthful teaching. And please remember that the unregenerate have a knowledge of God, but they willingly suppress this knowledge (Rom.1:18-32). In this, they will stand in God's judgment having no defense for their ignorance.
rkg62976 2 years ago
god is a just god he will devier creation
he is not a tormenter but a deliverer
beingther 2 years ago
"Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can DESTROY BOTH SOUL and BODY in hell." Matthew 10:28
EconomicTerror 2 years ago
Amen. Thank you for this post. God bless!
mtzion211 2 years ago
When we tell a story(parable) these days, it goes a little like this: "Once upon a time" etc.. Looking at some parables in Luke they goes: Luke 14:16 A certain man made made a great supper, and bade many. Luke 15:11 A certain man had two sons. Luke 16:1 There was a certain rich man, which had a steward... Luke 16:19 Their was a certain rich man that was clothe in purple... Luke 19:12 A certain nobleman went... Luke 20:9 A certain man planted... You can easily see, they are all parables.
kbdory 2 years ago
Most people know that these are all parables, but some people believe all these are parables except Luke 16:19. They can easily see that these parables starts off pretty much the same, and they admit that the rest of them are parables, but because of their beliefs, they take and twist this parable to fit their teachings(beliefs). But the truth is that, it is a parable, and the bible is not wrong, it is the person belief that is wrong. IF it was true, then it will go against bible teachings.
kbdory 2 years ago
Thanks for posting! I believe that we are in agreement. I have a video on this parable. I believe it is about faith and works, Jew and Gentile. Thanks again and God bless! Tom
mtzion211 2 years ago
Again we will have to agree to disagree. The Cross wasn't fair either but yet it happen. "My thought are not your thoughts and my ways are not your ways." GBU
Bingolly1 2 years ago
Yes, I understand. GBU
mtzion211 2 years ago