I am sorry to say but the reality is JW's are not Christians; nor is their behavior christian like. I have an uncle that became a JW. He has done nothing but condemn & destroy his own family. There is nothing Christian like about him, his wife, her two children with felonies or any member of their 'meetings' .Preaching hate, lack of comapssion and showing no mercy is absolutely not christian.
@hamptonsjoy Sadly many JW's do not practice what the organization preaches. There have been many articles and talks reminding JW's not to forget their families who are non-members. Obviously there was a need to address the situation and they have, but many believe they know what is best. More people are stumbled by other people than the doctrine. I am not a JW, was studying with them a while back(Father was one who ignored his family as a JW). They do preach what the Bible says.
I'm pretty sure the would is coming to an end on December 21, 2012. That's what I've been hearing around town anyway. My birthday is December 27th. I'm having my party on December 20th this year. :)
How are you supposed to compete with someone who has been taught that even to think something wrong is as good as committing the sin itself? This is the point. They aren't even allowed to contemplate an argument against their religion rather, they switch into autopilot with ready answers. I just wish my mum, sisters, aunties and uncles, my grandparents, friends, could allow themselves to just think with the peace that God wants them to affirm their beliefs by listening to all arguments.
1914 --- the year that many of the bent gullible jehovah witnesses eat...pity !
1925 --- the resurrection of the prophets...PURE pity !
bottom line :
the jehovah witnresses don;t know that they have been brainwashed --- a mad person doesn't consider themselves MAD, true...when a person is sadly diagnosed with neurosis, they still see their issues as true -- pity !
** this is a fantastic video that basically slams this CULT.--- let your children watch / learn.
The truth is there is no letter "J" in the Hebrew alphabet. It is impossible that the name of God is Jehovah. You are being deceived by your preachers! They hide you the truth! You want to know when and how that name JEHOVAH existed? Log on to -theoldpath .tv- You have the right to know! Do not waste your money, effort, time and soul to a name of god not anywhere found in the original bible translations...If there is no Bro E li Soriano then we will be all victim of lies! Glory to God---
@ilovetruth777 Dude, it is called "transliteration". For example, Herman Cain's 9-9-9 plan in America is referring to a number, In Germany it is pertaining to the English word "NO". NO, NO, NO! We spell things out differently phonetically in every Language. In Spanish there IS a letter J, but they pronounce the J as an H. How is YAHWEH PHONETICALLY spelled in GREEK, transliterated into English? "L" "O" "R" "D". There is NO "J" or "Y" in that! Tomato, tomoto, TOYOTA, it's all the same!
i used to be a jehovahs witness from the time i was old enough to know myself until 16 yrs old. thank you jesus i left when i was 17-they purposely repeat things to put people into a spell- . they are the anti-christ, illumanti, 666 rolled into one. evil sons of bitches.."their bible" is filled with lies and makes a mockery at real christians. there are alot of pedophiles in their organization, cheaters, u name every sin possible and u have the jehovahs witness organization
If all those who joined the Watchtower between the time this guy wrote his expose' on the organization and today, how many would have then joined this organization so eager to recruit them??
Each of us should make a truly INFORMED DECISION before making such a life-altering choice; a choice that places their lives forever, now, under the authority & jurisdiction of the leaders of the Watchtower, & whatever doctrines or policies or changes they may hand down to the rank-&-file.
Just tell me why! Why do you dedicate all of your time telling people how horrible we are and how wrong we are? Do you not realize that we're people too and we have rights!? What if it were the other way around? What if Witnesses got on the internet and told lies about your religion and everything you put your faith and hope into? It Hurts... to get on the internet and watch people lie, lie, and lie about everything we believe in OVER THE SIMPLE FACT THAT THEY DON'T BELIEVE IN IT AS WELL! Why?
It is not Jehovah's Witnesses themselves who I speak out against, but their leadership and unbiblical teachings. On the whole, I find JWs nice and sincere people, but nice and sincere does not make them right. I find it so sad that JW allow themselves to be deceived; putting their trust in men and not in God.
The reason I do what I it because I love Jehovah's Witnesses and want them to see the truth and have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.
@lchiddle If you "love" Jah's people then you would leave them alone.. not degrade them on the internet for the world to see. If you "love" Jah's people, you would discuss any disagreement or misunderstandings you had against their beliefs with them! Not the websites! Can you imagine how we feel to watch things like this happen? And to know that it's not just you doing it?! But in fact it's almost everyone! Don't tell you me you "love" Jah's people when all you do for them is show hatred!
Firstly, I don't believe that you are God's people.
Secondly, I do discuss my disagreements of Watchtower teachings.
Thirdly, this video is an outline of who the Jehovah's Witness religion are. It was originally uploaded to counter a JW who had sliced and diced the video making the speaker say things he wasn't.
Forthly, what makes it okay for the Watchtower to speak out against others beliefs... but when others speak out against Watchtower beliefs that's wrong?
@lchiddle PART~1 You don't have to believe we're God's people, but I do, so I will refer to JW's and Jah's people. I never said you didn't discuss your disagreements of the Watchtower teachings, because obviously you do as the world can see from this video and all of it's comments, I said you need to discuss them with Witnesses instead of the web. I don't care what this video was "originally" for because it's a pack of lies and stupid. The Watchtower doesn't speak bad of other religions, it..
@lchiddle PART~2 simply tells us to stay away from false religions. And we believe that our religion is the true religion! I believe it very strongly and will always believe it! The watchtower doesn't point out a specific religion and attack its beliefs and people in every sentence like people like you do. But I'm not going to argue with you anymore because obviously you have your mind set that we are these horrible lieing people who twist the bible in every way possible, and i can't change...
@lchiddle PART~3 your mind on that. But I do think you should know that it's people like you who make me stronger when it comes to standing up for my beliefs! So thankyou for that. Goodbye!
@lchiddle Everyone has the right to freedom and believe whatever they want to, everything the JW learn is directly from the bible. By doing this, your are teaching hatred towards a group of people, and isnt that against your christian beliefs?
No. Because I don't advocate hatred towards Jehovah's Witnesses, on the contrary, if I see a Jehovah's Witness being attacked I would be the first to step forward and try to help them, even whilst they were in the process of being attacked. I have nothing against JWs, I see them as victims to the Watchtower's teachings, which is why I also step in know, because I do not what them to be duped into believing things that are not of God.
Anyone can make the Bible say anything if they were to use the Bible as the Watchtower do; isolating scripture and completely ignoring other. Jehovah's Witnesses do not learn from the Bible, they learn through the filter of the Watchtower. This is no different to the Mormons through the Book of Mormon etc, the Catholics through the RCC, Muslims through Muhammad, etc... etc...
@lchiddle Okay then, as you can see all religions do the same. No religion out there is completely perfect, so if your going to speak out against a group speak out against the whole religion deal in general.
@kourky13 i have to respond to this.... do you realize, the watchtower has done NOTHING but attack in print, at peoples doors, at assemblies, and so on, for over a hundred years, EVER OTHER CHURCH< PERSON OR WHATEVER that does not agree with them? calling christian churches, not christian, satanic, of the devil, Babylon the great, etc? that anyone who leaves and speaks out about some issue they had as an apostate? are you kidding me? the witness organization is the KING of slandering
@SixStringDeity Yep! They want to abolish religion, that is their calling. That all people come to God through them and that all false religion will be destroyed (except them) by God.
@meshel2012 I struggle with this, as I was raised one, and, am very concerned about the truth and worshiping God. Id be right back there if i could resolve the real, extreme biblical doctrinal issues. they are good good people. and, as Christians, set an example many others do not achieve. but, there are very serious problems there as well. it is very sad, if they are NOT what they claim, someone has alot of explaining to do for misleading so many people for so long.
@SixStringDeity If the shoe fits. Would you defend the organizations they denounce? All you have to do is look at the origins of Christmas and see how many Christians refuse to practice. Baptists in the South also believe no other Christians are true. Revelation 17 calls out the end of religion. Romans 1:21-32 explains what happens when people remove religion. I am not practicing, but I watch and see they are right, I simply do not feel it in my heart.
Jehovah's Witnesses are known to have a persecution complex because it's only these types of "proofs" that they can hold onto, because they are not born again having a personal relationship with the truth, Jesus Christ.
Do you not know that Jesus said "Do not judge lest you be judged." Strange how JWs are happy to dish out judgement, but when it comes back at them... well... go figure...
Yet, so many Jehovah's Witnesses just blindly follow the Watchtower... and when they don't they are quickly disfellowshipped for not agreeing, shunned, and labelled "apostates" and "enemies of Jehovah" as though the Watchtower's teachings = Jehovah. Nothing short of blasphemy.
So you're saying that my Jehovah's Witness friends do not study with the Watchtower...?
I know all of the Jehovah's Witness core beliefs inside and out. I wouldn't be surprised if I know some of their teachings better that some Jehovah's Witnesses. I read study the Bible daily and I study the Koine Greek so I can better understand what the writers of the Greek scriptures were conveying. I also study other's theologies so I can understand other.
Do you actually realize how daft that kind of reasoning is? Jehovah's Witnesses focus a huge amount of their teaching directly attacking the teachings of orthodox Christianity. It was Jehovah's Witnesses who first opposed Christians, so by that logic it is actually orthodox Christianity that teaches the truth!
"Proof texts" are not proof if they are taken out of context. It is nothing more that an attempt to justify a belief. Why even use Watchtower magazines, why not just read the Bible alone? And allow the Bible to interpret itself. I've read Watchtower magazines, and know exactly how out of context they try to take passages.
Just take the Watchtowers doctrines on the 144,000 anointed class and the great crowd of other sheep. They use so many verse out of context try and "prove" this.
The Watchtower regularly takes scripture out of context and is widely known for doing so. If you what to deny this claim before even examining the evidence then it just shows how closed minded you are. Just remember that ignorance is not an excuse - "And if the blind lead the blind, both will fall into a pit." (Matt 15:14).
Where are we told in scripture "nobody can read and understand the Bible alone"? This is the exact same stunt that the Roman Catholic Church tried to pull.
It's interesting the way in which you seemingly equate the word of the Watchtower with the word of God. However, this is no surprise as this the exact thing that the Watchtower themselves do.
I 100% agree that we should look to God for understanding, and I believe that I mean this more so than you, because you look to the Watchtower; not God. If you looked to God then you would not be duped by the Watchtower's deceit.
As for the Ethiopian eunuch, this was regarding prophecy of the coming messiah that Isaiah had received. The things that Philip told him have now been revealed to us in the Bible. It makes no sense to need someone to teach us things that have been EXPLAINED in scripture. Before the eunuch had the fulfillment of this prophecy revealed to him, he had nothing more than a seemingly ambiguous prophecy. However, in the Bible today we have both prophecy and fulfillment.
And they do it so blatantly. I really do wonder if the leaders of the Watchtower on the Governing Body even believe that the Bible is the word of God, or if they just like the control that they hold over the 7.5 million Jehovah's Witnesses world wide who cling to their every word.
No, i do not go along with the Trinity, i was just reading a very detailed watchtower on that today, and there is just not enough support for it from the Bible, it is all man's idea, or going back to Constantine, from that point on it became established, but really when you study it in more detail, any logical person can see that it's simply God, and his separate son Jesus.
The Watchtower consistently demonstrate misunderstandings about the Trinity doctrine, so I wouldn't go on anything they say about the concept of the doctrine or whether it's biblical or not, because you need to actually know what it is before you can determine whether or not the it is actually taught in the Bible.
But who's talking about the Trinity anyway? What I want to know is why does the JWs Governing Body claim to be directed by the God of the Bible when they're evidently not?
@lchiddle No, triune God's come from the Sumerians. IN that ugaritic language, you can see that Yahweh is a single God, even though there is a piece that reads "the name of the son of god, Yahweh.'
I don't see why you say they're not!. The Watchtower is printed in 419 languages. It is non profit. They also print little study books for people, and it's all from 'non compulsive donations'. What is wrong with that? Compare to Catholic Churches and all it's spinoffs.
@lchiddle i have watchtower's in front of me, and i don't see what the problem is!!. I've looked at how other religions do things, just spent a month with the mormons. challenged a catholic priest at his ritualistic mass! he wouldn't answer my question. The publications give you information, they're interesting, and they are always with Biblical scripture to endorse a point, or visa versa. They don't put themselves above God, they are just trying to do what jesus said. what is wrong with that?
Not that we dare to classify or compare ourselves with some of those who are commending themselves. But when they measure themselves by one another and compare themselves with one another, they are without understanding. But we will not boast beyond limits, but will boast only with regard to the area of influence God assigned to us, to reach even to you. "Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord."
I’m not asking you to compare Jehovah’s Witnesses with the Catholic Church.
JWs forever try making themselves look “godly” by undermining others, which just makes them sound more like political campaigners rather than witnesses of the Most High. However, it’s no surprise that the Watchtower’s followers would do exactly as the Watchtower themselves do, always trying to glorify themselves by bringing judgement upon others. Nothing more than modern day Pharisees (Luke 18:11).
@lchiddle They have nothing to do with politics because it's not biblical. ALL other churches support the government and it's warfare. Jesus didn't get involved in any of that. You know that. They don't judge!. 'Wherever anyone does not take you in or listen to your words, on going out of the house or that city shake the dust off your feet'. They move on to another house, with this scripture in mind if someone isn't interested, they don't judge them. They very politely try to share views first.
@lchiddle Well, without any scripture for a minute, remember the reason why Jesus flipped the tables over in the temple?. The tax collectors? That;s obvious why. He never says to go out and send your children to war in the name of my father, did he?. The people thought he was coming to sort out their issues with the Romans etc, but he said, "I have given your word to them, but the world has hated them, because they are no part of the world just as i am no part of the world'.
Politics isn't just about going to war, it's also about preventing it and much much more. Don't think that I am endorsing the Catholic Church, but the among of good that has come from them and other churches playing an active role in politics is staggering.
Jesus told his followers to be "the salt of the Earth", this speaks volumes about making a influential difference, and that is the very reason why many get involved in politics in the first place.
@lchiddle This did not include the churches gettting involved. The israelites had nothing to do with politics back then. Because the Catholic's have ignored the bible teachings on this, they have become incredibly corrupt, they continue to do what they want including bigtime idolatry, not to mention all the rest of the stuff they do and try to justify it with God. Remember the Jews thought Jesus was coming for that, and they were wrong wern't they? He came to give us a message of the Kingdom.
@lchiddle You're going back in to the OT now. Jesus came with a new covenant for the world, and that wasn't part of God's covenant, politics. Why would either one of them support our wars, what are they based upon? Greed, money, power. This is Satan's work, not Jehovah's. This is why religious institutions shouldn't get involvved in it at all and stay neutral like the JW's do, they are the only ones out there doing it. Why? because they worship with spirit and truth.
@lchiddle Do you really want to discuss the OT?. summary, Jehovah's intent then was to get his people to the promised land. What christendom has done in the past is what they have done, the JW's don't conduct themselves the way christians have in the past and still do today. Remember ' the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one'. Satan's influence on the earth is rife, and the bible warns about all of this.
@lchiddle I have, i've been attacked on here so many times already regarding people's judgemental attitudes when they have never read or studied the Bible. I know about alot of that, but when you read it, you have to consider what was going on at the time, God is a spirit, he cannot come down here and fight for them, but intervened when necessary to protect his people from the fornicators, evildoers, the giants etc. Again, it all ends up with the new covenant, and he always had a purpose..
Jehovah created everything... or was it Jesus? Either way, he can do what ever he likes, yet he choose to send Israel into battle time after time after time. Do you not believe that God is sovereign; in control of all that happens?
@lchiddle Jesus is God's son he didn't create everything, 1st peter 1 2"According to the foreknowledge of God the Father, with the sanctification by the spirit" Acts 2 23, this man, as one delivered up by the determined counsel and foreknowledge of God". Yes hes in control in the end. Do you not understand the whole purpose of keeping those chosen people of his alive?. He had to keep the blood line clean for the coming of the Messiah! That's why there's alot of bloodshed in the OT.
The Bible says that Jesus created everything. John 1:3, Colossians 1:16-17, Hebrew 1:2,3,10. You can deny it all you like, but all you are doing is disagreeing with the Word of God.
@lchiddle NO, i'm not disagreeing with Gods word. The Trinity is something perhaps you might want to research further, because it's obviously not a bible teaching. Constantine helped put it into place, there is 28 scriptures that show you Jesus is talking about his father, not himself, otherwise trinitarians put the bible writers as idiots. Jesus wasn't talking to himself, he was praying to his Father Jehovah. Plus, when he was dead for 3 days, where was God during that time, if he's Jesus?!!
I have done a MASSIVE amount of research on the Trinity, and I can guarantee that if you're listen to what the Watchtower is saying about it, then you haven't even got a clue what it is, because the Watchtower very blatantly don't.
In fact, you have even proved that you don't no what the Trinity is by your statement, "Jesus wasn't talking to himself, he was praying to his Father Jehovah."
@queue555 I'm just gonna add, the way to have avoid war is not to partake yes? How many americans today want the troops back, and out of these other countries, and to start looking after our own, look what the wars have created? a HUGE recession for one, i can't find a job right now, and am incredibly depressed because of all the financial woes that come along with that. I look forward to Jehovah's new KIngdom when these governments will be destroyed. Dont' you?
Of course, but if we are just waiting and not helping make a real difference then what kind of an example it that? Wars can be prevented before they start. Yet Jehovah's Witnesses do nothing, and just sit back all self righteous as the whole world continues to blow each other to pieces. Jehovah's Witnesses could be such a force for good, yet they do nothing, making judgments from a distance.
@lchiddle Ok they don't sit back 'all self righteous'!. This is not their doing, it is Satan's and it is foretold in the bible!. What they do is they don't allow their kids to join the Military, they don't salute the Flag, they don't partake in that at all. They don't sing the spangeled banner in the KH, remember jesus said, 'my world is no part of your world', which would include all that. They follow the bible more strictly than other religions, and people don't like it. They will obey the law
@lchiddle What they do instead of going to war is promote God's word The Bible. This then helps prevent people from doing bad things and worship Jehovah in the way he wants instead, not in how we think it should be. Proverbs 3.5 " Trust in Jehovah with all your heart & do not lean upon your own understanding. In all your ways take notice of him, and he himself will make your paths straight."
The only thin the Jehovah's Witnesses promote is the word of the Watchtower. The Watchtower have even used Proverbs 3:5 when equating themselves with Jehovah, and you and all other Jehovah's Witnesses are lapping up their lies.
Every time I have ever opened my front door to a JW their are never stood there with their Bibles out, but Watchtower and Awake! magazines. And they never start by glorifying Jesus, but instantly start by trying to sell me their Paradise Earth.
@lchiddle If you ask them to get their bible, they would gladly do so!! You should!! You really are judging them incorrectly. What lies!! I just quoted you pr 3.5, they adhere to that scripture and many others, of course, you should too!!. They don't want to be pushy to people, that used to go on more, so they lightly approach you with the WT, but i'm telling you if you want them to show you scripture, then they can for sure. Try that next time, really. You have the WT's purpose wrong.
Jehovah's Witnesses only adhere to Proverbs 3:5 in conjunction with the so called "faithful and discreet slave" e.g. the teaches that come out of the Watchtower.
I don't agree with fighting wars in the name of Jehovah either, therefore I completely disagree with the way that wars such as the Crusades were promoted. But do you even know the history behind the Crusades and why Christians made the pilgrimages to Jerusalem in the first place?
@lchiddle Um, help me a little on that history. i read a lot on History, especially the biblical ones now, i know the christian churches are responsible for so much misunderstanding, as they used the bible to control people, killed people over it, tried to stop them reading it,awful stuff. Did you see why they don't celebrate the holidays now? it' ll be the first for me this year, and i have alittle girl, but what is wrong is wrong, plus it's all soo greedy and commercialized
So what if the Watchtower magazines are printed in 419 different languages, it means absolutely nothing if the message that is being spread is a false one. Why don’t they print the Bible in that many languages? Not even half! This just continues to show the Watchtower’s mentality toward the word of God; “What we have to say is far more important than God!” It should be the other way around.
@lchiddle no! YOur'e viewing them wrong, look in my bible in the front it says, when this one was printed, also were, 165,136, 685 copies. It is the other way around!. i went to the KH yesterday, and we are all flipping through the scriptures, we were looking at how the prophecies written in there on the coming of the Messiah have been fullfilled. This is not their ideas, we discussed the scriptures written on it. so how can you say that now i have told you this?
That's a lot of copies, did you know that the Watchtower's Public Edition alone has an average print run of over 42 million copies per month, that's 504 million copies per years. Did you also know that as of 2011 the NWT that has been in print since 1961 has been printed 171 million copies of the New World Translation in 101 languages. I'll let you do the maths.
My point is exactly what it was to begin with, the Watchtower clearly think that what they have to say is far more important that what Jehovah has to. Watchtower Public Edition Magazine has 504 million copies per year in 419 languages vs. the New World Translation which has 171 million copies over 50 years in 101 languages. It's not even close.
@lchiddle Oh i see what you're saying that they're printing more WT than bibles?. If that's it, well it costs alot more to print, ship, and distribute the bibles than the little mags. Plus, people are more likely to read a WT and get an interest from it ( i know that was my case), of the bible, than going to the Bible first. It really isn't done to promote the WT because again, the WT is about the Bible.
@lchiddle I think it's safe for me to say also, that the WT talks about how we can improve our lives from a biblical sense and provides the scriptures to explain where the bible is coming from, they even explain about who they are in a whole issue "who are the Jw's?'. I was told one issue is 2 yrs in the making, and they have Awake! too don;'t they. I find them very useful. Great pointers to the bible
All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work.
@lchiddle Yes, agreed. What is wrong with a publication based on bible scripture that is easy for people to read and understand?. People don't understand the bible on it's own. The JW's do this to help get the word out there, by going to the people with a free copy of the WT, to give them something to ponder on. Yes, some gets thrown away, but it has helped alot of people, by drawing them in for a closer look at the Bible, a bible study.
The Watchtower's publications are not based on the Bible, they may reference verses, but the publications are based on Watchtower teachings where they use proof verses in support of what they are saying. But when you actually go to the verse or passage that has been referenced, very often they are taking way out of context, with the overall saying something completely different.
The Watchtower even discourages their follows from reading the Bible without their "aid".
@lchiddle NO, sorry but that's not true, i've been studying it with them for a year an d ahalf now, and they don't bring in the WT on the study at all, they have a study book we use. i don't know what else to tell you other than the truth of what i've seen with them, and the WT is NOT an overseer of the bible. it really isn't. It helps you to understand what is written, like i said before, people cannot study the bible on their own, this helps to draw people closer to doing that. That is all.
Do you even know what the Watchtower is? Even single publication that Jehovah's Witnesses use are published, printed, and distributed by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. Everything they read and study all comes from the exact same source.
The Watchtower is the overseer of the New World Translation just look in the front of your copy and you'll see that it is published by the Watchtower.
@lchiddle What you're saying about the Watchtower is not true, it just isn't. Maybe you should go investigate a KH and question some JW's, they'd answer all your questions. I'm trying, but i'm not sure you even want to accept what i'm saying as truth. It doesn't matter who prints it, it's purpose is what you;'re getting wrong. Have you read the inside to a WT, i have one in front of me, do you want me to type it out, or have yougot one?
You can refuse to believe me all you like. As I've said I have good friends who are JWs, and I have also done a huge amount of research just on the organisation and its history.
I have all the current Watchtower magazines, both the public and study editions, plus the Awake! magazines. I even have the future editions up until the end of the year.
@lchiddle Then why are you so critical?. Go to a KH meeting one sunday, i've done this, just spent a month at a Mormon church, no good. They think you can just pray and that's about it. They have no bibles at service, they don't talk about it, they just give their own personal testimonies, and always mention the prophet of theirs or what Joseph smith said, never God. If you have a WT there, isn't it clear what it's purpose is, it tells you inside the front page!
Why would I want to go to a Kingdom hall when I know what they are teaching and believing is so anti God? If I went to one they'd kick me out, for speaking out against what they are teaching because I know for a fact that it is so wrong. Would you honestly attend a Catholic Church?
@lchiddle Oh well you see, i have gone to a Catholic church and went right up to the priest after watching their 'ritual' and all the bored people there. I asked him why the Catholics insist on removing God's real name out of the bible. They won't kick you out, they will welcome you, and you have every right to ask questions, i did this with the mormons also, and a couple of other churches. I think that's where you might see for yourself, go see them, check em out in person.
And what happens when they cannot answer my questions? You think that they will look into what I have said with a balanced view and if I have valid points inform the Watchtower that they have made some more errors, or do you think they will label me an enemy of God as they do to all those that go "too far" asking questions.
You seem to forget that I have friends who are Jehovah's Witnesses, I know exactly how they react to questions that they cannot answer.
@lchiddle Nooo! I do not. I have full confidence, if you go into a KH, they will gladly talk with you, just make sure you come across in a positive and polite manner like they do when they come to the door. Don't be attacking. You cannot tarnish all with the same brush, some are more knowledgable and been at it longer than others. They won't brand you anything. go on, sit through a service, and ask. I have had nothing but positiveness with them in a yr and a half.
Maybe what I will do one day is go to a Kingdom Hall and speak to one of the elders, if he allows me to record the conversation then I will post it in YouTube. As it goes, I have spoken to dozens, if not hundreds, of Jehovah's Witnesses about things of a theological manor, and the conversations usually go one of two ways, either they refuse to speak to me any longer, or they refuse to acknowledge things I say and continue with strawman arguments that don't even represent my beliefs.
@lchiddle If you go and talk to any one of us with a closed mind, the conversation won't go far. And if you know that you're speaking to us to try to prove us wrong, it won't go far as well. Just as you have your beliefs so do we and we stand strong for them. So maybe you could just have an open-minded conversation with any of us just as you probably would do in regards to any sort of conversation, because in general close-minded conversations don't get anywhere.
One of the major problems that I find when speaking to any Witness is that we have different authorities, mine is the Bible, I am so careful to allow the word of God to interpret the word of God, but what I find with the JW is that their authority is the Watchtower; what the Watchtower says about the Bible. I have looked into Watchtower doctrine and how they have come to their doctrine, and it just amazes me how much they will isolate verses and use them out of context
This is why I am not a fan of the Watchtower's magazines, because it does not allow the Bible to be read as it was supposed to be read, but rather just references verses with often with no context.
@lchiddle Just talk to us, just as @queue555 said, in a non attacking way. Talk to us to find out what we believe and why is it that we believe it. And then present why you agree/disagree and we can go from their and speak more on the subject. Just remember, one question at a time. Because if you jump from subject to subject, no point will ever be reached, although some distinct subjects do connect and correlate to as why some may say we "jump from subject to subject", which is false.
I do talk to Witnesses, regularly in fact, I have good friends who are JWs. I always talk to the Witnesses who come knocking on my door. As well as online. But what I always find is I am never satisfied with what they call an answer, because it is often filled with logical fallacies and even untruths but when I question the "answers" that's when we get the communication break down. I'm not interested in proving JWs wrong, all I am interested in is what is true.
You can bury your head in the sand, but until you actually take the initiative and research the Watchtower from a balance view point, i.e. from both sides, not just the Watchtower's you will never know any different. Weigh up what they say with what others say, and more importantly what God has to say, and don't just except what they say as "truth". We are told again and again to test things, and the Watchtower's material fulls into this also.
@lchiddle And the JW's would agree with that statement as i do. 'test every inspired expression', yes, you're right, and i have, i respect the way they present things in a non-biast way, even using other institutions, and religions ideas and beliefs, they present and use their quotes in the WT itself, so how on earth is that being biast to themselves?. i'ts being honest and making fair statements and presenting what the bible says about different issues.
@lchiddle You don't need to pity me at all. You keep on about the WT, but again you are misunderstanding it's purpose like it's something bad. The bible can answer all your questions, Jehovah Witnesses know that very well. They are a faithful and discreet slave in my view because of their conduct. Compared to other religions who use commercialism and money to promote themselves, ie. internet, tv, radio, they don;'t. This is why their less understood. Yes! Being more discreet is a good thing.
@lchiddle You don't need to pity me at all. You keep on about the WT, but again you are misunderstanding it's purpose like it's something bad. The bible can answer all your questions, Jehovah Witnesses know that very well. They are a faithful and discreet slave in my view because of their conduct. Compared to other religions who use commercialism and money to promote themselves, ie. internet, tv, radio, they don;'t. This is why their less understood. Yes! Being more discreet is a good thing.
Of course people can study the Bible on their own, the only saying you can't are the Watchtower, because they don't want you to study the Bible alone, because it's dangerous for them. If Jehovah's Witnesses actually studied the Bible without using the Watchtower's publications to "aid" them, then the Watchtower would lose thousands if not millions of followers, and they know this!
@lchiddle I'm saying you can't study the bible on your own and understand it all. NO WAY. This is why people get confused and judgemental about the OT for example, because you to consider it was written in poetic form, and the NT is alot of parables that Jesus spoke in. You can't just open it and expect to understand it like that. I don't know why people get so bent out of shape over a mag that's promoting Gods' word and purpose. it's nuts. Hon, they don't use the WT to study it!!!
Says who? All you need is God's holy spirit to understand scripture, that's what Jesus promised, not some organisation that was to come at the end of the 19th Century.
@lchiddle no, see that's what the mormons think, they base it on emotion. All throughout the bible studying it helps you to understand God, you can't just pray alone and think you're going to know the bible. JOhn 17.3 This means everlasting life, their TAKING IN KNOWLEDGE of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ'. so, you see, you can draw closer to God by reading about him in the Bible.
The Greek word use in John 17:3 is ginōskō it means have a deep knowledge of someone/something. It is used to refer to a relationship between people, not just a paper based knowledge. Jesus uses the same word in Matt 7:23 when he says "And then will I declare to them, 'I never knew you...'"
@lchiddle Hey i have to go right now pick up my little girl from school. i'll get back on your last comment. Thanks for being respectful and not insulting to me like some of the trash on here, it makes it more of an enjoyable informative debate. I strongly suggest you go to a KH though, i'd like to hear how you got on!. Investigators in the KH's or any churches is not uncommon. If you got any;thing else to add, go ahead and i'll address it tomorrow. Have a good night.
I have no intention of insulting you. I want to help you. It is the teaches of the Jehovah's Witnesses that I have a major problem with, not the members.
It's sad the way religious establishments always try to appear more “holy” than another. Yet it means nothing, as appearing “holy” in the world’s eyes and being holy and just before God is two totally different things.
Jesus constantly said “If you don’t believe me believe the works” as for a thing to be true requires two witnesses… who/what is the Watchtower’s second witness? Not their works; nothing they ever said has come to pass. That’s just scratching the surface.
@lchiddle Jehovah wants to worshipped the way HE wants, not the way we think it should be done. I get that. And this is what i see with them. NO pagan holidays, they used to celebrate those, but once discovered their origins, they stopped all of it!. Churches no, they just carry right on with it. They hold the bible to the highest degree, accepting the rules of Jehovah. They do not claim to know 'the time or the hour' of this approaching time, but go out and warn people of it as it is going to.
Jehovah should be worshiped in spirit and truth, not in falsehood and law.
These holidays have no resemblance to the former Pagan festivals. Show me where God says "Thou shall not have alternative celebrations at the time when Pagan have their festivals."
The Watchtower has repeatedly printed dates for the end. So don't try and sugar coat them, 'cause it isn't fooling anyone.
@lchiddle Yes, you're correct he should be worshipped that way. Did you know that New Years Day was a festival from Sumerian times?. It was the catholics that decided on a Dec 25th date for Jesus birth, which is wrong anyway. What are we doing when we put up a xmas tree? Worshipping it. John 6 17. 'Therefore get out from among them, and separate yourselves, says Jehovah & quit touching the unclean thing'.
@lchiddle Yes it's a serious question!. One is indirectly worshipping a tree, and what does the tree represent? you see i used to think it was harmless too, but in Jehovah's eyes he views these thing s different from us, we cannot just do what we want. spirit and truth.
@lchiddle A tree does not represent Jesus or Jehovah. A tree is part of the commercialism of Christmas, the greed, the high expectations, the stress, the money, the envy, all those things that christmas represents, including the tree. It if a form of idolatry. The Golden Calf, there's one, they made that, and worshipped it, put it up, danced around it, sang around it, looked at it lovingly etc. I personally hate christmas, this time of year, it is SO fake, and thats what i hate about it.
The Israelites abandoned Jehovah, and put their trust in the golden calf, people do not abandoned Jehovah and put their trust in a tree... This is a terrible example and just shows that you don't even know what worshiping in spirit is.
@lchiddle The World Book Ency says, 'the early christians 'considered the celebration of anyones birth to be a pagan custom". The only b'day observances mentioned in the Bible are those of two rulers who did not worship God. Gen 40.20 Mark 6.21. B'day celebrations were also held to honor Pagan Deities. On May 24th Romans celebrated the b'day of Diana a goddess. The next day, they observed the B'day of their sun-god Apollo. so B'days were associated with paganisim not christianity.
@lchiddle And just to add, that there is good news for us, that we aren't going to rot in hell!. And there will be as the bible numerously states that it is on the earth that we will live, not somewhere we do not know anything about. God made us to be here, it only makes sense we stay here. Jeepers, the Mormons think we were spirits beforehand! like that makes a lot of sense. The catholics worhip idols all the time! I think you're being way too harsh. i don't know why though.
People are disappointed with churches today, What this man is saying is true. They go beyond and deeper into the bible than any other religion today. People just can't believe an organization of 7 million or more now, can be this devout. They feel religiously inferior because they know that the JW's have it right.
Zeal does not equal truth.. Jehovah's Witnesses are no different to Roman Catholics or any other people who blindly following their organisations putting more faith man guidance than the guidance that God gives through his Holy Spirit. JW's are very passionate about what they believe, but they hold onto poison mixed with tiny snippets of truth which they use to try and sugarcoat the rest.
Your assessment of others attitudes towards the Jehovah's Witnesses is a far cry from accurate.
@lchiddle YOu're right, zeal doesn't equal truth. i never said that. But i'm not taking they are the same as Catholics, they don't idolize, they don't get involved in politics, they don't have their own banking s;ystem, they don't try to incorporate any other writings in the bible, they believe God is the FAther, and Jesus is the Son, NO IMMORTALITY OF THE SOUL, NO HELLFIRE, those are Catholic's traditional made up teachings,not JW's. You have to be either, a spinoff of a catholic or a mormo
And I never said they taught the same thing. I said they are no different because like so many Catholics they blindly follow the instruction of others who claim to be divinely guided. Jehovah's Witnesses idolize their organization, The Watchtower society is one of the wealthiest religious establishments, with billions of dollars invested into real estate, stocks, and bonds. Unlike say the Vatican the Watchtower does very little in the way of charity for those outside the organization.
JW's are taught that the Bible cannot be interpreted correctly without the assistance of Watchtower publications.
JW doctrines are completely unbiblical, as the majority of their teachings come from isolating passages from their context, from altering the Bible, and from completely reading in preconceived ideas that are foreign to scripture.
@lchiddle i bet you're referring to the darn Trinity arn't ya?. Another manmade (catholic) idea, which has it's roots in paganism, goes back to the Sumerians. Same as the halo, angels with wings, the devil with horns! please!. They are all over with scripture, how much contact have you had with them to be this judgemental?. Jw's build up their congregation, Catholics idolize statues from heaven and earth & the bible is very clear on that. catholics worship the pope for goodness sake!!
I'm referring to Watchtower doctrines in general, a whole host of false teachings.
I'm not "judgmental" I have some very close friends who are JWs and I have thoroughly looked into their teachings. I began looking into their beliefs even before I held my own. I preach against what they do not because I don't like them, but because what they teach is totally wrong and unbiblical.
@lchiddle And it's not a 'far cry' either. You just don't know!!. They do go further than any other religion to spread the good news, instead of these stupid churches STILL harping on about hellfire etc! Please!. It's this type of religion that makes 'non believers' stay away, it's always been like this, a huge misinterpretation and old fashioned view on it, by mediavel prophets and poets! That's a fact!. The Catholics for example didn't want people reading it, were killed for it! what a past!!!
They do do a good job at spreading their particular message, but their means of preaching is not the only way, as your whole life should be witness not just when you're attending meetings and out on field service. The majority of the time they only go to places that have already received the Gospel. And what good is it if what they are teaching is poison?
@lchiddle Well first they don't teach poison, maybe you'd like to specify. They are the newest large organization from the Cath's, because of this they looked at the bible differently, properly, someone saw the old bible teachings of man's were wrong. Do you really think we rot in hell? float up in cloud to heaven to praise god all day?. Even the bible permits teaching from other's! they don't worship Russell, they just worship Jehovah. The WT isn't used in my bible study.
The Jehovah's Witness teaches are not unique to them, they are an offshoot from the 19th century Adventists (Millerites) and this is very evident in Russell's teachings.
@lchiddle Ok, i don't know what the millerites were. i guess i could look it up, but should it really?. What they represent now and how they conduct themselves to God is what is important here. I find them to be very dignified and honest. They have no motifs. Whenever there is a convention, these facilities love them because they take care of the property with respect! 400 Jw's showed up willingly to clean our stadium, the owners thought they were gonna have to do it! Specify your beef!
That's not a great attitude to have. You should really start looking into things for yourself, rather than allowing some organization with an unsubstantiated claim to spoon feed you with their propaganda.
I don't have a problem with the way JWs conduct themselves, because I am no better then any of them. What I have a problem with is the things the Watchtower teaches, to start with who they claim to be. The Watchtower is clearly not God's sole channel of communication.
@lchiddle what attitude? i'm trying to get you to be specific on your arguements. can you do this, i have to go, write me a list, or give me something? What does the watchtower teach that offends you? i'd be that last p;erson to have anything to do with a false relgion and i'm not stupid. i'm a sincere, honest person. i see that in them. i hate fakers, flakes, phonies!!. being let down. anyway, specify please.
Your attitude for unwillingness to do your own research.
I have mentioned one thing already. Why don't we start there. The Watchtower claims to be God sole channel of communication, yet nothing supports this and every prediction/prophecy they have ever made has failed, their track record is so bad in fact that they try to hid some of these with outright lies.
The first thing the WTBTS followers do is resort to "Insults" and "Name Calling" when you expose too many HARD FACTS about their religion to them. HOW CHRISTIAN OF THEM!! The INTERNET,THE GREAT EQUALIZER. I wise we had the Internet (the way it is NOW) in the 70s. Id be happy well adjusted PHD with a business. lol
I love Walter Martin. But he said that there was World Peace in 1914, but 1914 was not World peace; being it was when world War I started. World War is really no peace.
But it is weird that a lot of Jehovah's Witnesses and their predictions always seem in coordination with times of War. And look how funded that they are. It would not surprise me if they were funded somehow by the corporate ruling class.
CIA in its history, as weird as it sounds; has been known to be attached to doing that.
The Watchtower do not "preach the good news of the kingdom" they preach their own false gospel. It really doesn't matter how much preach a person does if the message they are preaching is the wrong one.
No one should condemn a JW's zeal, just the message they preach.
@lchiddle JW's witnesses are God's people, just as the Israelites were God's people thousands of years ago.We are prophesied (Daniel 12:4) to spread the good news of God's Kingdom,to teach God's name is Jehovah (look at Psalms 83:18,look in dictionaries).We follow Jesus' EVERY command and preach EXACTLY as per his clear instructions=Matthew chap.10. We made disciples just as Jesus taught us to=Matthew 6:9,10,33,24:14,28:19,20. We are as close to the Father as it GETS! Acts 1:8, 5:42, 20:20.
I wish it were true, but unfortunately you're not. The prophecy of Daniel 12:4 is dependent when the "time of the end" is as only the JWs recognize this as 1914.
You really don't get it, do you? The word "Jehovah" is not even God's name, God's name is Yahweh, do your own research.
You stray far from the commands of Jesus, you by the law and refuse to come to Jesus, and you hate those who you see as doing you wrong.
@SixStringDeity I encourage you to keep reading and seeking the truth, as a student of Jw I can assure you they are the truth, without thought.
OoMostHighoO 20 hours ago
I am sorry to say but the reality is JW's are not Christians; nor is their behavior christian like. I have an uncle that became a JW. He has done nothing but condemn & destroy his own family. There is nothing Christian like about him, his wife, her two children with felonies or any member of their 'meetings' .Preaching hate, lack of comapssion and showing no mercy is absolutely not christian.
hamptonsjoy 3 days ago
@hamptonsjoy Are they Perfect?. No its process to become a True Christian.
Plus JW don't just call anyone Christians like Christendom does.
OoMostHighoO 1 day ago
@hamptonsjoy Sadly many JW's do not practice what the organization preaches. There have been many articles and talks reminding JW's not to forget their families who are non-members. Obviously there was a need to address the situation and they have, but many believe they know what is best. More people are stumbled by other people than the doctrine. I am not a JW, was studying with them a while back(Father was one who ignored his family as a JW). They do preach what the Bible says.
cddorcas1 20 hours ago
I'm pretty sure the would is coming to an end on December 21, 2012. That's what I've been hearing around town anyway. My birthday is December 27th. I'm having my party on December 20th this year. :)
skipwfg 2 weeks ago
How are you supposed to compete with someone who has been taught that even to think something wrong is as good as committing the sin itself? This is the point. They aren't even allowed to contemplate an argument against their religion rather, they switch into autopilot with ready answers. I just wish my mum, sisters, aunties and uncles, my grandparents, friends, could allow themselves to just think with the peace that God wants them to affirm their beliefs by listening to all arguments.
Mi6Bagpuss 1 month ago
1914 --- the year that many of the bent gullible jehovah witnesses eat...pity !
1925 --- the resurrection of the prophets...PURE pity !
bottom line :
the jehovah witnresses don;t know that they have been brainwashed --- a mad person doesn't consider themselves MAD, true...when a person is sadly diagnosed with neurosis, they still see their issues as true -- pity !
** this is a fantastic video that basically slams this CULT.--- let your children watch / learn.
afterray 2 months ago
The truth is there is no letter "J" in the Hebrew alphabet. It is impossible that the name of God is Jehovah. You are being deceived by your preachers! They hide you the truth! You want to know when and how that name JEHOVAH existed? Log on to -theoldpath .tv- You have the right to know! Do not waste your money, effort, time and soul to a name of god not anywhere found in the original bible translations...If there is no Bro E li Soriano then we will be all victim of lies! Glory to God---
ilovetruth777 3 months ago
@ilovetruth777 Dude, it is called "transliteration". For example, Herman Cain's 9-9-9 plan in America is referring to a number, In Germany it is pertaining to the English word "NO". NO, NO, NO! We spell things out differently phonetically in every Language. In Spanish there IS a letter J, but they pronounce the J as an H. How is YAHWEH PHONETICALLY spelled in GREEK, transliterated into English? "L" "O" "R" "D". There is NO "J" or "Y" in that! Tomato, tomoto, TOYOTA, it's all the same!
chapmaned 2 months ago
@ilovetruth777 So where does the word Jew come from? Are the Jews today biblical Hebrew Israelites?
meshel2012 5 days ago
Alot people on here throwing the first stone....ridiculous!
ruffaz24 3 months ago
i used to be a jehovahs witness from the time i was old enough to know myself until 16 yrs old. thank you jesus i left when i was 17-they purposely repeat things to put people into a spell- . they are the anti-christ, illumanti, 666 rolled into one. evil sons of bitches.."their bible" is filled with lies and makes a mockery at real christians. there are alot of pedophiles in their organization, cheaters, u name every sin possible and u have the jehovahs witness organization
NiVeA5678 3 months ago
If all those who joined the Watchtower between the time this guy wrote his expose' on the organization and today, how many would have then joined this organization so eager to recruit them??
Each of us should make a truly INFORMED DECISION before making such a life-altering choice; a choice that places their lives forever, now, under the authority & jurisdiction of the leaders of the Watchtower, & whatever doctrines or policies or changes they may hand down to the rank-&-file.
1955annemarie 3 months ago
JW's have two gods in there NWT Jn 1:1. Big one and little one.
tdickensheets 4 months ago
@tdickensheets
You're totally right, but they are far too brainwashed to see this.
lchiddle 4 months ago
Just tell me why! Why do you dedicate all of your time telling people how horrible we are and how wrong we are? Do you not realize that we're people too and we have rights!? What if it were the other way around? What if Witnesses got on the internet and told lies about your religion and everything you put your faith and hope into? It Hurts... to get on the internet and watch people lie, lie, and lie about everything we believe in OVER THE SIMPLE FACT THAT THEY DON'T BELIEVE IN IT AS WELL! Why?
kourky13 4 months ago
@kourky13
It is not Jehovah's Witnesses themselves who I speak out against, but their leadership and unbiblical teachings. On the whole, I find JWs nice and sincere people, but nice and sincere does not make them right. I find it so sad that JW allow themselves to be deceived; putting their trust in men and not in God.
The reason I do what I it because I love Jehovah's Witnesses and want them to see the truth and have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.
lchiddle 4 months ago
@lchiddle If you "love" Jah's people then you would leave them alone.. not degrade them on the internet for the world to see. If you "love" Jah's people, you would discuss any disagreement or misunderstandings you had against their beliefs with them! Not the websites! Can you imagine how we feel to watch things like this happen? And to know that it's not just you doing it?! But in fact it's almost everyone! Don't tell you me you "love" Jah's people when all you do for them is show hatred!
kourky13 4 months ago
@kourky13
Firstly, I don't believe that you are God's people.
Secondly, I do discuss my disagreements of Watchtower teachings.
Thirdly, this video is an outline of who the Jehovah's Witness religion are. It was originally uploaded to counter a JW who had sliced and diced the video making the speaker say things he wasn't.
Forthly, what makes it okay for the Watchtower to speak out against others beliefs... but when others speak out against Watchtower beliefs that's wrong?
lchiddle 4 months ago
@lchiddle PART~1 You don't have to believe we're God's people, but I do, so I will refer to JW's and Jah's people. I never said you didn't discuss your disagreements of the Watchtower teachings, because obviously you do as the world can see from this video and all of it's comments, I said you need to discuss them with Witnesses instead of the web. I don't care what this video was "originally" for because it's a pack of lies and stupid. The Watchtower doesn't speak bad of other religions, it..
kourky13 4 months ago
@lchiddle PART~2 simply tells us to stay away from false religions. And we believe that our religion is the true religion! I believe it very strongly and will always believe it! The watchtower doesn't point out a specific religion and attack its beliefs and people in every sentence like people like you do. But I'm not going to argue with you anymore because obviously you have your mind set that we are these horrible lieing people who twist the bible in every way possible, and i can't change...
kourky13 4 months ago
@lchiddle PART~3 your mind on that. But I do think you should know that it's people like you who make me stronger when it comes to standing up for my beliefs! So thankyou for that. Goodbye!
kourky13 4 months ago
@lchiddle Everyone has the right to freedom and believe whatever they want to, everything the JW learn is directly from the bible. By doing this, your are teaching hatred towards a group of people, and isnt that against your christian beliefs?
jaseila12 4 months ago
@jaseila12
No. Because I don't advocate hatred towards Jehovah's Witnesses, on the contrary, if I see a Jehovah's Witness being attacked I would be the first to step forward and try to help them, even whilst they were in the process of being attacked. I have nothing against JWs, I see them as victims to the Watchtower's teachings, which is why I also step in know, because I do not what them to be duped into believing things that are not of God.
lchiddle 4 months ago
@jaseila12
Anyone can make the Bible say anything if they were to use the Bible as the Watchtower do; isolating scripture and completely ignoring other. Jehovah's Witnesses do not learn from the Bible, they learn through the filter of the Watchtower. This is no different to the Mormons through the Book of Mormon etc, the Catholics through the RCC, Muslims through Muhammad, etc... etc...
lchiddle 4 months ago
@lchiddle Okay then, as you can see all religions do the same. No religion out there is completely perfect, so if your going to speak out against a group speak out against the whole religion deal in general.
jaseila12 4 months ago
@jaseila12
It depends what you mean by religion. What I call religion is man-made, and this I do speak out against, just as Jesus did.
lchiddle 3 months ago
@lchiddle it depends whats your religion
jaseila12 3 months ago
@jaseila12
I'm a Christian
lchiddle 3 months ago
@kourky13 i have to respond to this.... do you realize, the watchtower has done NOTHING but attack in print, at peoples doors, at assemblies, and so on, for over a hundred years, EVER OTHER CHURCH< PERSON OR WHATEVER that does not agree with them? calling christian churches, not christian, satanic, of the devil, Babylon the great, etc? that anyone who leaves and speaks out about some issue they had as an apostate? are you kidding me? the witness organization is the KING of slandering
SixStringDeity 1 week ago
@SixStringDeity Yep! They want to abolish religion, that is their calling. That all people come to God through them and that all false religion will be destroyed (except them) by God.
meshel2012 5 days ago
@meshel2012 I struggle with this, as I was raised one, and, am very concerned about the truth and worshiping God. Id be right back there if i could resolve the real, extreme biblical doctrinal issues. they are good good people. and, as Christians, set an example many others do not achieve. but, there are very serious problems there as well. it is very sad, if they are NOT what they claim, someone has alot of explaining to do for misleading so many people for so long.
SixStringDeity 4 days ago
@SixStringDeity If the shoe fits. Would you defend the organizations they denounce? All you have to do is look at the origins of Christmas and see how many Christians refuse to practice. Baptists in the South also believe no other Christians are true. Revelation 17 calls out the end of religion. Romans 1:21-32 explains what happens when people remove religion. I am not practicing, but I watch and see they are right, I simply do not feel it in my heart.
cddorcas1 20 hours ago
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kourky13 4 months ago
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kourky13 4 months ago
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kourky13 4 months ago
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kourky13 4 months ago
@kourky13
Jehovah's Witnesses are known to have a persecution complex because it's only these types of "proofs" that they can hold onto, because they are not born again having a personal relationship with the truth, Jesus Christ.
Do you not know that Jesus said "Do not judge lest you be judged." Strange how JWs are happy to dish out judgement, but when it comes back at them... well... go figure...
lchiddle 4 months ago
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kourky13 4 months ago
@kourky13
Yet, so many Jehovah's Witnesses just blindly follow the Watchtower... and when they don't they are quickly disfellowshipped for not agreeing, shunned, and labelled "apostates" and "enemies of Jehovah" as though the Watchtower's teachings = Jehovah. Nothing short of blasphemy.
lchiddle 4 months ago
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kourky13 4 months ago
@kourky13
And I agree with this... what is your point?
lchiddle 4 months ago
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kourky13 4 months ago
@kourky13
So you're saying that my Jehovah's Witness friends do not study with the Watchtower...?
I know all of the Jehovah's Witness core beliefs inside and out. I wouldn't be surprised if I know some of their teachings better that some Jehovah's Witnesses. I read study the Bible daily and I study the Koine Greek so I can better understand what the writers of the Greek scriptures were conveying. I also study other's theologies so I can understand other.
lchiddle 4 months ago
@kourky13
Why would I possibly want to study with a group that don't even understand the basics of my belief?
lchiddle 4 months ago
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kourky13 4 months ago
@kourky13
Do you actually realize how daft that kind of reasoning is? Jehovah's Witnesses focus a huge amount of their teaching directly attacking the teachings of orthodox Christianity. It was Jehovah's Witnesses who first opposed Christians, so by that logic it is actually orthodox Christianity that teaches the truth!
lchiddle 4 months ago
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kourky13 4 months ago
@kourky13
"Proof texts" are not proof if they are taken out of context. It is nothing more that an attempt to justify a belief. Why even use Watchtower magazines, why not just read the Bible alone? And allow the Bible to interpret itself. I've read Watchtower magazines, and know exactly how out of context they try to take passages.
Just take the Watchtowers doctrines on the 144,000 anointed class and the great crowd of other sheep. They use so many verse out of context try and "prove" this.
lchiddle 4 months ago
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kourky13 4 months ago
@kourky13
The Watchtower regularly takes scripture out of context and is widely known for doing so. If you what to deny this claim before even examining the evidence then it just shows how closed minded you are. Just remember that ignorance is not an excuse - "And if the blind lead the blind, both will fall into a pit." (Matt 15:14).
Where are we told in scripture "nobody can read and understand the Bible alone"? This is the exact same stunt that the Roman Catholic Church tried to pull.
lchiddle 4 months ago
@kourky13
It's interesting the way in which you seemingly equate the word of the Watchtower with the word of God. However, this is no surprise as this the exact thing that the Watchtower themselves do.
I 100% agree that we should look to God for understanding, and I believe that I mean this more so than you, because you look to the Watchtower; not God. If you looked to God then you would not be duped by the Watchtower's deceit.
lchiddle 4 months ago
@kourky13
As for the Ethiopian eunuch, this was regarding prophecy of the coming messiah that Isaiah had received. The things that Philip told him have now been revealed to us in the Bible. It makes no sense to need someone to teach us things that have been EXPLAINED in scripture. Before the eunuch had the fulfillment of this prophecy revealed to him, he had nothing more than a seemingly ambiguous prophecy. However, in the Bible today we have both prophecy and fulfillment.
lchiddle 4 months ago
@kourky13
And they do it so blatantly. I really do wonder if the leaders of the Watchtower on the Governing Body even believe that the Bible is the word of God, or if they just like the control that they hold over the 7.5 million Jehovah's Witnesses world wide who cling to their every word.
lchiddle 4 months ago
No, i do not go along with the Trinity, i was just reading a very detailed watchtower on that today, and there is just not enough support for it from the Bible, it is all man's idea, or going back to Constantine, from that point on it became established, but really when you study it in more detail, any logical person can see that it's simply God, and his separate son Jesus.
queue555 5 months ago
@queue555
The Watchtower consistently demonstrate misunderstandings about the Trinity doctrine, so I wouldn't go on anything they say about the concept of the doctrine or whether it's biblical or not, because you need to actually know what it is before you can determine whether or not the it is actually taught in the Bible.
But who's talking about the Trinity anyway? What I want to know is why does the JWs Governing Body claim to be directed by the God of the Bible when they're evidently not?
lchiddle 5 months ago
@lchiddle No, triune God's come from the Sumerians. IN that ugaritic language, you can see that Yahweh is a single God, even though there is a piece that reads "the name of the son of god, Yahweh.'
I don't see why you say they're not!. The Watchtower is printed in 419 languages. It is non profit. They also print little study books for people, and it's all from 'non compulsive donations'. What is wrong with that? Compare to Catholic Churches and all it's spinoffs.
queue555 5 months ago
@lchiddle i have watchtower's in front of me, and i don't see what the problem is!!. I've looked at how other religions do things, just spent a month with the mormons. challenged a catholic priest at his ritualistic mass! he wouldn't answer my question. The publications give you information, they're interesting, and they are always with Biblical scripture to endorse a point, or visa versa. They don't put themselves above God, they are just trying to do what jesus said. what is wrong with that?
queue555 5 months ago
@queue555
Not that we dare to classify or compare ourselves with some of those who are commending themselves. But when they measure themselves by one another and compare themselves with one another, they are without understanding. But we will not boast beyond limits, but will boast only with regard to the area of influence God assigned to us, to reach even to you. "Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord."
2 Corinthians 10:12,13,17
lchiddle 5 months ago
@queue555
I’m not asking you to compare Jehovah’s Witnesses with the Catholic Church.
JWs forever try making themselves look “godly” by undermining others, which just makes them sound more like political campaigners rather than witnesses of the Most High. However, it’s no surprise that the Watchtower’s followers would do exactly as the Watchtower themselves do, always trying to glorify themselves by bringing judgement upon others. Nothing more than modern day Pharisees (Luke 18:11).
[cont'd]
lchiddle 5 months ago
@lchiddle They have nothing to do with politics because it's not biblical. ALL other churches support the government and it's warfare. Jesus didn't get involved in any of that. You know that. They don't judge!. 'Wherever anyone does not take you in or listen to your words, on going out of the house or that city shake the dust off your feet'. They move on to another house, with this scripture in mind if someone isn't interested, they don't judge them. They very politely try to share views first.
queue555 5 months ago
@queue555
Show me where in the Bible it says we should have nothing to do with politics?
lchiddle 5 months ago
@lchiddle Well, without any scripture for a minute, remember the reason why Jesus flipped the tables over in the temple?. The tax collectors? That;s obvious why. He never says to go out and send your children to war in the name of my father, did he?. The people thought he was coming to sort out their issues with the Romans etc, but he said, "I have given your word to them, but the world has hated them, because they are no part of the world just as i am no part of the world'.
queue555 5 months ago
@queue555
Politics isn't just about going to war, it's also about preventing it and much much more. Don't think that I am endorsing the Catholic Church, but the among of good that has come from them and other churches playing an active role in politics is staggering.
Jesus told his followers to be "the salt of the Earth", this speaks volumes about making a influential difference, and that is the very reason why many get involved in politics in the first place.
lchiddle 5 months ago
@lchiddle This did not include the churches gettting involved. The israelites had nothing to do with politics back then. Because the Catholic's have ignored the bible teachings on this, they have become incredibly corrupt, they continue to do what they want including bigtime idolatry, not to mention all the rest of the stuff they do and try to justify it with God. Remember the Jews thought Jesus was coming for that, and they were wrong wern't they? He came to give us a message of the Kingdom.
queue555 5 months ago
@queue555
The Israelites were their own nation of course they were involved with politics. They even fought wars, many brutal and bloody wars.
There were even Christians who were in the military in the first century.
lchiddle 5 months ago
@lchiddle You're going back in to the OT now. Jesus came with a new covenant for the world, and that wasn't part of God's covenant, politics. Why would either one of them support our wars, what are they based upon? Greed, money, power. This is Satan's work, not Jehovah's. This is why religious institutions shouldn't get involvved in it at all and stay neutral like the JW's do, they are the only ones out there doing it. Why? because they worship with spirit and truth.
queue555 5 months ago
@queue555
I'm sorry, I hadn't released that Jehovah had changed... Can you show me where Jehovah changed his mind about being involved in politics.
If Jehovah's Witnesses are right, then why Christians in the first century in the military?
lchiddle 5 months ago
@lchiddle Do you really want to discuss the OT?. summary, Jehovah's intent then was to get his people to the promised land. What christendom has done in the past is what they have done, the JW's don't conduct themselves the way christians have in the past and still do today. Remember ' the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one'. Satan's influence on the earth is rife, and the bible warns about all of this.
queue555 5 months ago
@queue555
And once they were in the promise land and still slaughtering thousands, what then? You really need to open up your Bible and read it!
lchiddle 5 months ago
@lchiddle I have, i've been attacked on here so many times already regarding people's judgemental attitudes when they have never read or studied the Bible. I know about alot of that, but when you read it, you have to consider what was going on at the time, God is a spirit, he cannot come down here and fight for them, but intervened when necessary to protect his people from the fornicators, evildoers, the giants etc. Again, it all ends up with the new covenant, and he always had a purpose..
queue555 5 months ago
@queue555
Jehovah created everything... or was it Jesus? Either way, he can do what ever he likes, yet he choose to send Israel into battle time after time after time. Do you not believe that God is sovereign; in control of all that happens?
lchiddle 5 months ago
@lchiddle Jesus is God's son he didn't create everything, 1st peter 1 2"According to the foreknowledge of God the Father, with the sanctification by the spirit" Acts 2 23, this man, as one delivered up by the determined counsel and foreknowledge of God". Yes hes in control in the end. Do you not understand the whole purpose of keeping those chosen people of his alive?. He had to keep the blood line clean for the coming of the Messiah! That's why there's alot of bloodshed in the OT.
queue555 5 months ago
@queue555
The Bible says that Jesus created everything. John 1:3, Colossians 1:16-17, Hebrew 1:2,3,10. You can deny it all you like, but all you are doing is disagreeing with the Word of God.
lchiddle 5 months ago
@lchiddle NO, i'm not disagreeing with Gods word. The Trinity is something perhaps you might want to research further, because it's obviously not a bible teaching. Constantine helped put it into place, there is 28 scriptures that show you Jesus is talking about his father, not himself, otherwise trinitarians put the bible writers as idiots. Jesus wasn't talking to himself, he was praying to his Father Jehovah. Plus, when he was dead for 3 days, where was God during that time, if he's Jesus?!!
queue555 5 months ago
@queue555
I have done a MASSIVE amount of research on the Trinity, and I can guarantee that if you're listen to what the Watchtower is saying about it, then you haven't even got a clue what it is, because the Watchtower very blatantly don't.
In fact, you have even proved that you don't no what the Trinity is by your statement, "Jesus wasn't talking to himself, he was praying to his Father Jehovah."
lchiddle 5 months ago
@queue555 I'm just gonna add, the way to have avoid war is not to partake yes? How many americans today want the troops back, and out of these other countries, and to start looking after our own, look what the wars have created? a HUGE recession for one, i can't find a job right now, and am incredibly depressed because of all the financial woes that come along with that. I look forward to Jehovah's new KIngdom when these governments will be destroyed. Dont' you?
queue555 5 months ago
@queue555
Of course, but if we are just waiting and not helping make a real difference then what kind of an example it that? Wars can be prevented before they start. Yet Jehovah's Witnesses do nothing, and just sit back all self righteous as the whole world continues to blow each other to pieces. Jehovah's Witnesses could be such a force for good, yet they do nothing, making judgments from a distance.
lchiddle 5 months ago
@lchiddle Ok they don't sit back 'all self righteous'!. This is not their doing, it is Satan's and it is foretold in the bible!. What they do is they don't allow their kids to join the Military, they don't salute the Flag, they don't partake in that at all. They don't sing the spangeled banner in the KH, remember jesus said, 'my world is no part of your world', which would include all that. They follow the bible more strictly than other religions, and people don't like it. They will obey the law
queue555 5 months ago
@queue555
The man on the side of the road was not the Samaritan's doing either.
lchiddle 5 months ago
@lchiddle What they do instead of going to war is promote God's word The Bible. This then helps prevent people from doing bad things and worship Jehovah in the way he wants instead, not in how we think it should be. Proverbs 3.5 " Trust in Jehovah with all your heart & do not lean upon your own understanding. In all your ways take notice of him, and he himself will make your paths straight."
queue555 5 months ago
@queue555
The only thin the Jehovah's Witnesses promote is the word of the Watchtower. The Watchtower have even used Proverbs 3:5 when equating themselves with Jehovah, and you and all other Jehovah's Witnesses are lapping up their lies.
Every time I have ever opened my front door to a JW their are never stood there with their Bibles out, but Watchtower and Awake! magazines. And they never start by glorifying Jesus, but instantly start by trying to sell me their Paradise Earth.
lchiddle 5 months ago
@lchiddle If you ask them to get their bible, they would gladly do so!! You should!! You really are judging them incorrectly. What lies!! I just quoted you pr 3.5, they adhere to that scripture and many others, of course, you should too!!. They don't want to be pushy to people, that used to go on more, so they lightly approach you with the WT, but i'm telling you if you want them to show you scripture, then they can for sure. Try that next time, really. You have the WT's purpose wrong.
queue555 5 months ago
@queue555
Jehovah's Witnesses only adhere to Proverbs 3:5 in conjunction with the so called "faithful and discreet slave" e.g. the teaches that come out of the Watchtower.
lchiddle 5 months ago
@queue555
I don't agree with fighting wars in the name of Jehovah either, therefore I completely disagree with the way that wars such as the Crusades were promoted. But do you even know the history behind the Crusades and why Christians made the pilgrimages to Jerusalem in the first place?
lchiddle 5 months ago
@lchiddle Um, help me a little on that history. i read a lot on History, especially the biblical ones now, i know the christian churches are responsible for so much misunderstanding, as they used the bible to control people, killed people over it, tried to stop them reading it,awful stuff. Did you see why they don't celebrate the holidays now? it' ll be the first for me this year, and i have alittle girl, but what is wrong is wrong, plus it's all soo greedy and commercialized
queue555 5 months ago
@queue555
You mean the Catholic Church, right? The Protestants fought against this.
The Muslims first took the city of Jerusalem by force and then for years continued to persecute any Christian or Jew who traveled there.
lchiddle 5 months ago
@queue555
[cont'd]
So what if the Watchtower magazines are printed in 419 different languages, it means absolutely nothing if the message that is being spread is a false one. Why don’t they print the Bible in that many languages? Not even half! This just continues to show the Watchtower’s mentality toward the word of God; “What we have to say is far more important than God!” It should be the other way around.
[cont'd]
lchiddle 5 months ago
@lchiddle no! YOur'e viewing them wrong, look in my bible in the front it says, when this one was printed, also were, 165,136, 685 copies. It is the other way around!. i went to the KH yesterday, and we are all flipping through the scriptures, we were looking at how the prophecies written in there on the coming of the Messiah have been fullfilled. This is not their ideas, we discussed the scriptures written on it. so how can you say that now i have told you this?
queue555 5 months ago
@queue555
That's a lot of copies, did you know that the Watchtower's Public Edition alone has an average print run of over 42 million copies per month, that's 504 million copies per years. Did you also know that as of 2011 the NWT that has been in print since 1961 has been printed 171 million copies of the New World Translation in 101 languages. I'll let you do the maths.
lchiddle 5 months ago
@lchiddle Ok, so what's your point here, it's alot isn't it?
queue555 5 months ago
@queue555
My point is exactly what it was to begin with, the Watchtower clearly think that what they have to say is far more important that what Jehovah has to. Watchtower Public Edition Magazine has 504 million copies per year in 419 languages vs. the New World Translation which has 171 million copies over 50 years in 101 languages. It's not even close.
lchiddle 5 months ago
@lchiddle Oh i see what you're saying that they're printing more WT than bibles?. If that's it, well it costs alot more to print, ship, and distribute the bibles than the little mags. Plus, people are more likely to read a WT and get an interest from it ( i know that was my case), of the bible, than going to the Bible first. It really isn't done to promote the WT because again, the WT is about the Bible.
queue555 5 months ago
@lchiddle I think it's safe for me to say also, that the WT talks about how we can improve our lives from a biblical sense and provides the scriptures to explain where the bible is coming from, they even explain about who they are in a whole issue "who are the Jw's?'. I was told one issue is 2 yrs in the making, and they have Awake! too don;'t they. I find them very useful. Great pointers to the bible
queue555 5 months ago
@queue555
Why not just use the Bible then?
All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work.
2 Timothy 3:16,17
lchiddle 5 months ago
@lchiddle Yes, agreed. What is wrong with a publication based on bible scripture that is easy for people to read and understand?. People don't understand the bible on it's own. The JW's do this to help get the word out there, by going to the people with a free copy of the WT, to give them something to ponder on. Yes, some gets thrown away, but it has helped alot of people, by drawing them in for a closer look at the Bible, a bible study.
queue555 5 months ago
@queue555
The Watchtower's publications are not based on the Bible, they may reference verses, but the publications are based on Watchtower teachings where they use proof verses in support of what they are saying. But when you actually go to the verse or passage that has been referenced, very often they are taking way out of context, with the overall saying something completely different.
The Watchtower even discourages their follows from reading the Bible without their "aid".
lchiddle 5 months ago
@lchiddle NO, sorry but that's not true, i've been studying it with them for a year an d ahalf now, and they don't bring in the WT on the study at all, they have a study book we use. i don't know what else to tell you other than the truth of what i've seen with them, and the WT is NOT an overseer of the bible. it really isn't. It helps you to understand what is written, like i said before, people cannot study the bible on their own, this helps to draw people closer to doing that. That is all.
queue555 5 months ago
@queue555
Do you even know what the Watchtower is? Even single publication that Jehovah's Witnesses use are published, printed, and distributed by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. Everything they read and study all comes from the exact same source.
The Watchtower is the overseer of the New World Translation just look in the front of your copy and you'll see that it is published by the Watchtower.
lchiddle 5 months ago
@lchiddle What you're saying about the Watchtower is not true, it just isn't. Maybe you should go investigate a KH and question some JW's, they'd answer all your questions. I'm trying, but i'm not sure you even want to accept what i'm saying as truth. It doesn't matter who prints it, it's purpose is what you;'re getting wrong. Have you read the inside to a WT, i have one in front of me, do you want me to type it out, or have yougot one?
queue555 5 months ago
@queue555
You can refuse to believe me all you like. As I've said I have good friends who are JWs, and I have also done a huge amount of research just on the organisation and its history.
I have all the current Watchtower magazines, both the public and study editions, plus the Awake! magazines. I even have the future editions up until the end of the year.
lchiddle 5 months ago
@lchiddle Then why are you so critical?. Go to a KH meeting one sunday, i've done this, just spent a month at a Mormon church, no good. They think you can just pray and that's about it. They have no bibles at service, they don't talk about it, they just give their own personal testimonies, and always mention the prophet of theirs or what Joseph smith said, never God. If you have a WT there, isn't it clear what it's purpose is, it tells you inside the front page!
queue555 5 months ago
@queue555
Why would I want to go to a Kingdom hall when I know what they are teaching and believing is so anti God? If I went to one they'd kick me out, for speaking out against what they are teaching because I know for a fact that it is so wrong. Would you honestly attend a Catholic Church?
lchiddle 5 months ago
@lchiddle Oh well you see, i have gone to a Catholic church and went right up to the priest after watching their 'ritual' and all the bored people there. I asked him why the Catholics insist on removing God's real name out of the bible. They won't kick you out, they will welcome you, and you have every right to ask questions, i did this with the mormons also, and a couple of other churches. I think that's where you might see for yourself, go see them, check em out in person.
queue555 5 months ago
@queue555
And what happens when they cannot answer my questions? You think that they will look into what I have said with a balanced view and if I have valid points inform the Watchtower that they have made some more errors, or do you think they will label me an enemy of God as they do to all those that go "too far" asking questions.
You seem to forget that I have friends who are Jehovah's Witnesses, I know exactly how they react to questions that they cannot answer.
lchiddle 5 months ago
@lchiddle Nooo! I do not. I have full confidence, if you go into a KH, they will gladly talk with you, just make sure you come across in a positive and polite manner like they do when they come to the door. Don't be attacking. You cannot tarnish all with the same brush, some are more knowledgable and been at it longer than others. They won't brand you anything. go on, sit through a service, and ask. I have had nothing but positiveness with them in a yr and a half.
queue555 5 months ago
@queue555
Maybe what I will do one day is go to a Kingdom Hall and speak to one of the elders, if he allows me to record the conversation then I will post it in YouTube. As it goes, I have spoken to dozens, if not hundreds, of Jehovah's Witnesses about things of a theological manor, and the conversations usually go one of two ways, either they refuse to speak to me any longer, or they refuse to acknowledge things I say and continue with strawman arguments that don't even represent my beliefs.
lchiddle 5 months ago
@lchiddle If you go and talk to any one of us with a closed mind, the conversation won't go far. And if you know that you're speaking to us to try to prove us wrong, it won't go far as well. Just as you have your beliefs so do we and we stand strong for them. So maybe you could just have an open-minded conversation with any of us just as you probably would do in regards to any sort of conversation, because in general close-minded conversations don't get anywhere.
Darweinersnitzel 4 months ago
@Darweinersnitzel
One of the major problems that I find when speaking to any Witness is that we have different authorities, mine is the Bible, I am so careful to allow the word of God to interpret the word of God, but what I find with the JW is that their authority is the Watchtower; what the Watchtower says about the Bible. I have looked into Watchtower doctrine and how they have come to their doctrine, and it just amazes me how much they will isolate verses and use them out of context
[cont'd]
lchiddle 4 months ago
@Darweinersnitzel
[cont'd]
This is why I am not a fan of the Watchtower's magazines, because it does not allow the Bible to be read as it was supposed to be read, but rather just references verses with often with no context.
lchiddle 4 months ago
@lchiddle Just talk to us, just as @queue555 said, in a non attacking way. Talk to us to find out what we believe and why is it that we believe it. And then present why you agree/disagree and we can go from their and speak more on the subject. Just remember, one question at a time. Because if you jump from subject to subject, no point will ever be reached, although some distinct subjects do connect and correlate to as why some may say we "jump from subject to subject", which is false.
Darweinersnitzel 4 months ago
@Darweinersnitzel
I do talk to Witnesses, regularly in fact, I have good friends who are JWs. I always talk to the Witnesses who come knocking on my door. As well as online. But what I always find is I am never satisfied with what they call an answer, because it is often filled with logical fallacies and even untruths but when I question the "answers" that's when we get the communication break down. I'm not interested in proving JWs wrong, all I am interested in is what is true.
lchiddle 4 months ago
@queue555
You can bury your head in the sand, but until you actually take the initiative and research the Watchtower from a balance view point, i.e. from both sides, not just the Watchtower's you will never know any different. Weigh up what they say with what others say, and more importantly what God has to say, and don't just except what they say as "truth". We are told again and again to test things, and the Watchtower's material fulls into this also.
lchiddle 5 months ago
@lchiddle And the JW's would agree with that statement as i do. 'test every inspired expression', yes, you're right, and i have, i respect the way they present things in a non-biast way, even using other institutions, and religions ideas and beliefs, they present and use their quotes in the WT itself, so how on earth is that being biast to themselves?. i'ts being honest and making fair statements and presenting what the bible says about different issues.
queue555 5 months ago
@queue555
You really have been duped by them! I feel really really sorry for you.
lchiddle 5 months ago
@lchiddle You don't need to pity me at all. You keep on about the WT, but again you are misunderstanding it's purpose like it's something bad. The bible can answer all your questions, Jehovah Witnesses know that very well. They are a faithful and discreet slave in my view because of their conduct. Compared to other religions who use commercialism and money to promote themselves, ie. internet, tv, radio, they don;'t. This is why their less understood. Yes! Being more discreet is a good thing.
queue555 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@lchiddle You don't need to pity me at all. You keep on about the WT, but again you are misunderstanding it's purpose like it's something bad. The bible can answer all your questions, Jehovah Witnesses know that very well. They are a faithful and discreet slave in my view because of their conduct. Compared to other religions who use commercialism and money to promote themselves, ie. internet, tv, radio, they don;'t. This is why their less understood. Yes! Being more discreet is a good thing.
queue555 5 months ago
@queue555
Of course people can study the Bible on their own, the only saying you can't are the Watchtower, because they don't want you to study the Bible alone, because it's dangerous for them. If Jehovah's Witnesses actually studied the Bible without using the Watchtower's publications to "aid" them, then the Watchtower would lose thousands if not millions of followers, and they know this!
lchiddle 5 months ago
@lchiddle I'm saying you can't study the bible on your own and understand it all. NO WAY. This is why people get confused and judgemental about the OT for example, because you to consider it was written in poetic form, and the NT is alot of parables that Jesus spoke in. You can't just open it and expect to understand it like that. I don't know why people get so bent out of shape over a mag that's promoting Gods' word and purpose. it's nuts. Hon, they don't use the WT to study it!!!
queue555 5 months ago
@queue555
Says who? All you need is God's holy spirit to understand scripture, that's what Jesus promised, not some organisation that was to come at the end of the 19th Century.
lchiddle 5 months ago
@lchiddle no, see that's what the mormons think, they base it on emotion. All throughout the bible studying it helps you to understand God, you can't just pray alone and think you're going to know the bible. JOhn 17.3 This means everlasting life, their TAKING IN KNOWLEDGE of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ'. so, you see, you can draw closer to God by reading about him in the Bible.
queue555 5 months ago
@queue555
The Greek word use in John 17:3 is ginōskō it means have a deep knowledge of someone/something. It is used to refer to a relationship between people, not just a paper based knowledge. Jesus uses the same word in Matt 7:23 when he says "And then will I declare to them, 'I never knew you...'"
Do you have a relationship with Jesus Christ?
lchiddle 5 months ago
@lchiddle Hey i have to go right now pick up my little girl from school. i'll get back on your last comment. Thanks for being respectful and not insulting to me like some of the trash on here, it makes it more of an enjoyable informative debate. I strongly suggest you go to a KH though, i'd like to hear how you got on!. Investigators in the KH's or any churches is not uncommon. If you got any;thing else to add, go ahead and i'll address it tomorrow. Have a good night.
queue555 5 months ago
@queue555
I have no intention of insulting you. I want to help you. It is the teaches of the Jehovah's Witnesses that I have a major problem with, not the members.
lchiddle 5 months ago
@queue555
[cont'd]
It's sad the way religious establishments always try to appear more “holy” than another. Yet it means nothing, as appearing “holy” in the world’s eyes and being holy and just before God is two totally different things.
Jesus constantly said “If you don’t believe me believe the works” as for a thing to be true requires two witnesses… who/what is the Watchtower’s second witness? Not their works; nothing they ever said has come to pass. That’s just scratching the surface.
lchiddle 5 months ago
@lchiddle Jehovah wants to worshipped the way HE wants, not the way we think it should be done. I get that. And this is what i see with them. NO pagan holidays, they used to celebrate those, but once discovered their origins, they stopped all of it!. Churches no, they just carry right on with it. They hold the bible to the highest degree, accepting the rules of Jehovah. They do not claim to know 'the time or the hour' of this approaching time, but go out and warn people of it as it is going to.
queue555 5 months ago
@queue555
Jehovah should be worshiped in spirit and truth, not in falsehood and law.
These holidays have no resemblance to the former Pagan festivals. Show me where God says "Thou shall not have alternative celebrations at the time when Pagan have their festivals."
The Watchtower has repeatedly printed dates for the end. So don't try and sugar coat them, 'cause it isn't fooling anyone.
lchiddle 5 months ago
@lchiddle Yes, you're correct he should be worshipped that way. Did you know that New Years Day was a festival from Sumerian times?. It was the catholics that decided on a Dec 25th date for Jesus birth, which is wrong anyway. What are we doing when we put up a xmas tree? Worshipping it. John 6 17. 'Therefore get out from among them, and separate yourselves, says Jehovah & quit touching the unclean thing'.
queue555 5 months ago
@queue555
Is that a serious question? "What are we doing when we put up a xmas tree? Worshipping it."
Do you even know what worship is?
Putting up a tree is just a bit of fun, it doesn't mean anything. Is just a fun tradition that doesn't mean anything that's all.
lchiddle 5 months ago
@lchiddle Yes it's a serious question!. One is indirectly worshipping a tree, and what does the tree represent? you see i used to think it was harmless too, but in Jehovah's eyes he views these thing s different from us, we cannot just do what we want. spirit and truth.
queue555 5 months ago
@queue555
So how is one "indirectly worshiping" a tree?
lchiddle 5 months ago
@lchiddle A tree does not represent Jesus or Jehovah. A tree is part of the commercialism of Christmas, the greed, the high expectations, the stress, the money, the envy, all those things that christmas represents, including the tree. It if a form of idolatry. The Golden Calf, there's one, they made that, and worshipped it, put it up, danced around it, sang around it, looked at it lovingly etc. I personally hate christmas, this time of year, it is SO fake, and thats what i hate about it.
queue555 5 months ago
@queue555
The Israelites abandoned Jehovah, and put their trust in the golden calf, people do not abandoned Jehovah and put their trust in a tree... This is a terrible example and just shows that you don't even know what worshiping in spirit is.
lchiddle 5 months ago
@lchiddle The World Book Ency says, 'the early christians 'considered the celebration of anyones birth to be a pagan custom". The only b'day observances mentioned in the Bible are those of two rulers who did not worship God. Gen 40.20 Mark 6.21. B'day celebrations were also held to honor Pagan Deities. On May 24th Romans celebrated the b'day of Diana a goddess. The next day, they observed the B'day of their sun-god Apollo. so B'days were associated with paganisim not christianity.
queue555 5 months ago
@queue555
Wow... have you ever heard of a logical fallacy? I guess eating must be Pagan then, because pagans ate...
lchiddle 5 months ago
@lchiddle And just to add, that there is good news for us, that we aren't going to rot in hell!. And there will be as the bible numerously states that it is on the earth that we will live, not somewhere we do not know anything about. God made us to be here, it only makes sense we stay here. Jeepers, the Mormons think we were spirits beforehand! like that makes a lot of sense. The catholics worhip idols all the time! I think you're being way too harsh. i don't know why though.
queue555 5 months ago
People are disappointed with churches today, What this man is saying is true. They go beyond and deeper into the bible than any other religion today. People just can't believe an organization of 7 million or more now, can be this devout. They feel religiously inferior because they know that the JW's have it right.
queue555 5 months ago
@queue555
Zeal does not equal truth.. Jehovah's Witnesses are no different to Roman Catholics or any other people who blindly following their organisations putting more faith man guidance than the guidance that God gives through his Holy Spirit. JW's are very passionate about what they believe, but they hold onto poison mixed with tiny snippets of truth which they use to try and sugarcoat the rest.
Your assessment of others attitudes towards the Jehovah's Witnesses is a far cry from accurate.
lchiddle 5 months ago
@lchiddle YOu're right, zeal doesn't equal truth. i never said that. But i'm not taking they are the same as Catholics, they don't idolize, they don't get involved in politics, they don't have their own banking s;ystem, they don't try to incorporate any other writings in the bible, they believe God is the FAther, and Jesus is the Son, NO IMMORTALITY OF THE SOUL, NO HELLFIRE, those are Catholic's traditional made up teachings,not JW's. You have to be either, a spinoff of a catholic or a mormo
queue555 5 months ago
@queue555
And I never said they taught the same thing. I said they are no different because like so many Catholics they blindly follow the instruction of others who claim to be divinely guided. Jehovah's Witnesses idolize their organization, The Watchtower society is one of the wealthiest religious establishments, with billions of dollars invested into real estate, stocks, and bonds. Unlike say the Vatican the Watchtower does very little in the way of charity for those outside the organization.
lchiddle 5 months ago
@queue555
JW's are taught that the Bible cannot be interpreted correctly without the assistance of Watchtower publications.
JW doctrines are completely unbiblical, as the majority of their teachings come from isolating passages from their context, from altering the Bible, and from completely reading in preconceived ideas that are foreign to scripture.
lchiddle 5 months ago
@lchiddle i bet you're referring to the darn Trinity arn't ya?. Another manmade (catholic) idea, which has it's roots in paganism, goes back to the Sumerians. Same as the halo, angels with wings, the devil with horns! please!. They are all over with scripture, how much contact have you had with them to be this judgemental?. Jw's build up their congregation, Catholics idolize statues from heaven and earth & the bible is very clear on that. catholics worship the pope for goodness sake!!
queue555 5 months ago
@queue555
I'm referring to Watchtower doctrines in general, a whole host of false teachings.
I'm not "judgmental" I have some very close friends who are JWs and I have thoroughly looked into their teachings. I began looking into their beliefs even before I held my own. I preach against what they do not because I don't like them, but because what they teach is totally wrong and unbiblical.
lchiddle 5 months ago
@lchiddle Then you need to take a leaf out of their book and specify what you consider of God's Word to be false. Go Ahead.
queue555 5 months ago
@queue555
I don't consider the Word of God to be false. I consider the Watchtower's teachings and use of it to be false.
lchiddle 5 months ago
@lchiddle And it's not a 'far cry' either. You just don't know!!. They do go further than any other religion to spread the good news, instead of these stupid churches STILL harping on about hellfire etc! Please!. It's this type of religion that makes 'non believers' stay away, it's always been like this, a huge misinterpretation and old fashioned view on it, by mediavel prophets and poets! That's a fact!. The Catholics for example didn't want people reading it, were killed for it! what a past!!!
queue555 5 months ago
@queue555
They do do a good job at spreading their particular message, but their means of preaching is not the only way, as your whole life should be witness not just when you're attending meetings and out on field service. The majority of the time they only go to places that have already received the Gospel. And what good is it if what they are teaching is poison?
lchiddle 5 months ago
@lchiddle Well first they don't teach poison, maybe you'd like to specify. They are the newest large organization from the Cath's, because of this they looked at the bible differently, properly, someone saw the old bible teachings of man's were wrong. Do you really think we rot in hell? float up in cloud to heaven to praise god all day?. Even the bible permits teaching from other's! they don't worship Russell, they just worship Jehovah. The WT isn't used in my bible study.
queue555 5 months ago
@queue555
The Jehovah's Witness teaches are not unique to them, they are an offshoot from the 19th century Adventists (Millerites) and this is very evident in Russell's teachings.
lchiddle 5 months ago
@lchiddle Ok, i don't know what the millerites were. i guess i could look it up, but should it really?. What they represent now and how they conduct themselves to God is what is important here. I find them to be very dignified and honest. They have no motifs. Whenever there is a convention, these facilities love them because they take care of the property with respect! 400 Jw's showed up willingly to clean our stadium, the owners thought they were gonna have to do it! Specify your beef!
queue555 5 months ago
@queue555
That's not a great attitude to have. You should really start looking into things for yourself, rather than allowing some organization with an unsubstantiated claim to spoon feed you with their propaganda.
I don't have a problem with the way JWs conduct themselves, because I am no better then any of them. What I have a problem with is the things the Watchtower teaches, to start with who they claim to be. The Watchtower is clearly not God's sole channel of communication.
lchiddle 5 months ago
@lchiddle what attitude? i'm trying to get you to be specific on your arguements. can you do this, i have to go, write me a list, or give me something? What does the watchtower teach that offends you? i'd be that last p;erson to have anything to do with a false relgion and i'm not stupid. i'm a sincere, honest person. i see that in them. i hate fakers, flakes, phonies!!. being let down. anyway, specify please.
queue555 5 months ago
@queue555
Your attitude for unwillingness to do your own research.
I have mentioned one thing already. Why don't we start there. The Watchtower claims to be God sole channel of communication, yet nothing supports this and every prediction/prophecy they have ever made has failed, their track record is so bad in fact that they try to hid some of these with outright lies.
lchiddle 5 months ago
The first thing the WTBTS followers do is resort to "Insults" and "Name Calling" when you expose too many HARD FACTS about their religion to them. HOW CHRISTIAN OF THEM!! The INTERNET,THE GREAT EQUALIZER. I wise we had the Internet (the way it is NOW) in the 70s. Id be happy well adjusted PHD with a business. lol
sovern009 8 months ago
I love Walter Martin. But he said that there was World Peace in 1914, but 1914 was not World peace; being it was when world War I started. World War is really no peace.
But it is weird that a lot of Jehovah's Witnesses and their predictions always seem in coordination with times of War. And look how funded that they are. It would not surprise me if they were funded somehow by the corporate ruling class.
CIA in its history, as weird as it sounds; has been known to be attached to doing that.
mamaschristmasbunny 9 months ago
i thought that what jesus told the apostles to do. when he was on earth ..go door to door and preach the good news of the kingdom??
yappertrap 9 months ago
@yappertrap
The Watchtower do not "preach the good news of the kingdom" they preach their own false gospel. It really doesn't matter how much preach a person does if the message they are preaching is the wrong one.
No one should condemn a JW's zeal, just the message they preach.
lchiddle 8 months ago
@lchiddle JW's witnesses are God's people, just as the Israelites were God's people thousands of years ago.We are prophesied (Daniel 12:4) to spread the good news of God's Kingdom,to teach God's name is Jehovah (look at Psalms 83:18,look in dictionaries).We follow Jesus' EVERY command and preach EXACTLY as per his clear instructions=Matthew chap.10. We made disciples just as Jesus taught us to=Matthew 6:9,10,33,24:14,28:19,20. We are as close to the Father as it GETS! Acts 1:8, 5:42, 20:20.
eternityandforever 6 months ago
@eternityandforever
I wish it were true, but unfortunately you're not. The prophecy of Daniel 12:4 is dependent when the "time of the end" is as only the JWs recognize this as 1914.
You really don't get it, do you? The word "Jehovah" is not even God's name, God's name is Yahweh, do your own research.
You stray far from the commands of Jesus, you by the law and refuse to come to Jesus, and you hate those who you see as doing you wrong.
lchiddle 6 months ago <