Full Circle -- Lioness Arising -- Lisa Bevere - 2/2

[Karamelkissiz23]

Amen, Lisa.

[KissesFromHeaven07]

Don't forget Deborah, God used her to lead.

[Amoostoons]

This was a revealing little discussion lol submission literally means "under mission"? hmmm .. im thinking u may want to double check that. submission is derived from the route word submit.. so when a wife says to their husband, I'm going to submit to you (that's a godly wife right there :) they're saying im going to under mit to u.. like under baseball mit to u? sillyness

watch John MacArthur - i do not allow a woman to teach.. on the tube. he presents the issue straight up :)

[Karamelkissiz23]

@Amoostoons Read Ephesians 5:21-31. Both the man and woman are required to "submit to one another out of reverence for Christ. Wives submit by respecting their husband and his authority as the head of the household; Husbands submit to their wives by loving her as Christ loved the church. He must also be willing to give up his life for her just as Christ did for us. This is not just a "one-way street" where the woman submits only to the man.

[Amoostoons]

I am aware of that verse and it is important.. the submission ur referring to in verse 21 is a general submission.. out of reverence to Christ. It doesn't mean that my pastor is to submit to me in any kind of authoritative manner.. It also doesn't mean that the man relinquishes his God given authority in the home or, as scripture clearly states, in the church. in fact u can see this clearly in the verse u refer to.. The husbands relationship with the wife is compared to

[Amoostoons]

Christ's and the church. if Paul was trying to emphasize a kind of dual submission, if you will, he should have picked a different comparison. Is Jesus submitted to your authority? No.. absolutely not. Does He love you? very much.. enough to give up his life. Should the husband submit to the "wife's authority" (subjected by our culture).. the biblical answer is, NO. The problem comes in when a woman usurps her husbands authority or when the husband fails to love his wife.

[Karamelkissiz23]

@Amoostoons It's obvious that the woman has to submit to her husband's authority in the home; however, this does not mean that he RULES over her. She is the co-leader in the household. Being a co-leader does not mean that the wife is "usurping" her husband's authority. The wife is called to serve and RESPECT her husband (and his authority), while the husband is called to serve and LOVE his wife.

[Amoostoons]

There's a very real and sinister problem here.. being ever so subtle as it is. God has deligated authority to the man in the home and church.. plainly. Paul explains why in 1 Tim 2.. because the woman was deceived first and became a sinner :( Instead we have "B" singing about "running the world" .. may indeed be a fulfilled prophecy? who knows. I think it's is a rebellious spirit that runs contrary to the will of God.. if so, what place does it have in the church i ask?

[Karamelkissiz23]

@Amoostoons Bevere is not saying that women should "run the world." She's saying that women should realize the strength, purpose and anointing that God has placed inside of them. We should utilize our strength, gifts and talents to carry out God's will and to help change the world for the better. If anything, Bevere is saying that women should stand BESIDE men to accomplish God's will in the earth. She's not talking about usurping men's authority; she does not have a rebellious spirit.

[Karamelkissiz23]

@Amoostoons See Acts 2:14-18 - ‘In the last days,’ God says, ‘I will pour out my Spirit upon all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy. Your young men will see visions, and your old men will dream dreams. 18 In those days I will pour out my Spirit even on my servants—men and women alike— and they will prophesy.

[Amoostoons]

At least I think we can agree on one thing.. it is Jesus who "runs the world" .. not B ;)

peace

[Karamelkissiz23]

@Amoostoons I was under the impression that in the NLT's Bible that this verse is talking about the submission in the household - not a general form of submission, although it can be applied in a general sense. Believers are supposed to honor one another, especially those in authority. Therefore, why would your pastor submit to you, if you are not in an authoritative position? As a brother in Christ, he has to honor you and vice versa. We all have to honor each other (Golden Rule).

[Karamelkissiz23]

@Amoostoons As far as I'm concerned, a woman has the authority to speak God's Word. It says that when He pours His Spirit out upon His people, sons AND DAUGHTERS will prophesy - men and WOMEN alike. A woman has the ability to proclaim God's Word - especially if that's what GOD has called her to do. Are you against women being in ministry? We are all ONE in Christ, according to Gal 3:28 -"There is no longer Jew or Gentile, slave or free, male and female. For you are all one in Christ Jesus."

[Amoostoons]

what bevere is saying is that it's ok for woman to take positions of authority in the church.. unless i misunderstood her :( if that is the case, that is clearly practice contrary to scripture.. is it rebellious in a sense? (although maybe not overly serious) u tell me ..i think ur kidding urself tho if ur going to tell me there's not at least a hint of beyonce in here.. i did watch this video after all. and im not saying that woman can't lead period or "speak the word of God."

[Amoostoons]

Again ur using two very general passages.. important, but general. the first is an old testament prophecy.. i believe fulfilled in Christ but that is debatable.. men and women have the ability to prophesy and preach the gospel and teach (in general) but in the specific setting of the church.. woman r not to hold teaching authority. so yes i am against woman in ministry, in that sense (position of pastor or elder etc..) i am not against woman ministering period..

[Amoostoons]

ie.. missionaries, sunday school teachers, counsellors, worship leaders etc.. some specific ministries r inherently exclusive  to woman in fact (ie ministries to prostitues) The other verse u use is even more general.. written to the galations who were struggling wish issues regarding SALVATION..i believe some of who formerly practiced Judaism themselves .. and paul was hamering the point home that salvation is thru Christ's shed blood for all..

[Amoostoons]

regardless of race, gender (remember Paul was writing to a culture unlike ours in which woman were very oppressed at points), occupation, or whether one was circumsized or not.. in regards to the salvation Jesus' brings we are all equal.. whether we be pastor of large church.. janitor of said church or prostitute on the side of said large church. It isn't saying that the afforemenitoned commands of Paul are void. Those r very specific in nature..

[Amoostoons]

And clearly state that woman r not to have leadership of the general congregation (going as far as to say that woman r not to even speak in the general assembly). So in the church today is there neither pastor nor elder? b/c if u interpret Gal 3 the way u did.. that's what u have to conclude, but that's of course very silly :( If i was a woman i could imagine having some frustration at those commands, but I think if i stepped back for a second and considered all that is

[Amoostoons]

afforded me in Christ .. I'd come to the conclusion that it's not so bad after all. Who knows on becoming pastor i might conclude, "ya this isn't as fun as i imagined."

And for the record I do believe that the woman is to lead in the home.. they have a clear God given authority over their children, but it is the man who holds the place of leadership in general over the entire home..

anyways hope that helps.. peace, Joel.

[Amoostoons]

Instead of mind games, let's just go with what the apostle Paul writes in GOD'S WORD, shall we ... "A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. For Adam was formed first, than Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. :( 1 Tim 2:11-14) Paul clearly does not permit woman to hold leadership authority over a man in the church regardless of ability

[Ningyptian]

I love Lisa. She was the first speaker I saw who told me that as a young woman, I was meant to not be only beautiful and precious, but powerful at the same time. Nobody had previously said that I could be important in the church besides behind the scenes, child care, etc but also in a leadership role. And so for the first time I was able to reconcile the strength of the action heroines I love with the God honoring woman I want to be. God bless you Lisa.

[christinaMeha]

I believe the Lord has something HE wants to tell us...that women are designed the way we are for a purpose that each of us need to find as we journey with HIM ,and I personally have learned much and am still learning how to handle my weakness and strength ....rise up <3