I RESPECT ARCHIMEDES REALLYBUT AMIGA HAS"DMA"DIRECT MEMORY ACCESS.ST HAS NOTHING BUT A SLIGHTLY FASTER CPU I HAD ATARI STE AND A500 AND1200.DMA IS THE KING.ALL CHIPS WORK GOES DIRECTLY TO THE MEMORY AND TO YOUR EYES DIRECTLY WITHOUT THE USE OF 68000.THIS IS EXACTLY THE "ONLY AMIGA" MEANING.
BLITTER AND COPPER AND FAT AGNUS AND DENISE AND M6502 AND OF COURSE PAULA BUT ALSO DRIVES AND ANYTHING ON AMIGA IS "DMA".THATS WHYIS SO NICE SCROLLING.WITHDMA "CPU IS FREE".TIMEHAS TELL US LOTS OF THINGS
2) With the blitter the CPU isn't strictly free because blitter use creates extra memory accesses to chipRAM, temporarily blocking memory accesses by the CPU. Going off and working on data in fastRAM, or doing low memory access, high cycle count work limits this effect though.
3) I've read the comment 5 times and I still don't understand the DMA bit of the rant there
@sackus 1)THERE IS A M6502 IN AMIGA.ITS AN AUXILIARY PROCESSOR.IF YOU WANT TO SEE IT OPEN MESS AND CHOOSE PROPERTIES ON AMIGA 500.
2)"DMA" IS DIRECT MEMORY ACCESS AND DOES EXACTLY THAT THING WHAT IT SAYS.BLITTER COPPER FAT AGNUS DENISE M6502 PAULA ALL HAVE "DMA".ALL THE CHIPS FROM OTHER COMPUTERS "GOES" FIRST TO "CPU" AND THEN IN "MEMORY" THATS WHAT ATARI ST IS SO SLOW AND NO PERFECT OR EVEN GOOD SCROLLING.WITH "DMA" CPU IS ALMOST FREE BECAUSE ALMOST EVERYTHING FROM THE CHIP GOES :DMA: IN MEMORY
@petsasjim1 Nope - that's a 6522 VIA (Versatile interface adaptor) - it's commonly found in 6502-based computers, but it isn't a 6502 and it doesn't do DMA.
I know what DMA is, but if you only have one memory bus and two devices want to access the memory at the same time one will have to wait (in the Amiga the CPU waits because the blitter has priority). That's why fastmem is called so, because the chipset can't see it. Blitting isn't free.
@sackus 1)IF THAT IS RIGHT THEN MESS HAS AN ERROR NOT ME.2)BUT THIS AUXILIARY CHIP EXISTS AND HELPS THE AMIGA EVEN WITHOUT DMA.3)EVEN OR NOT EVEN DMA EXIST.4)CHIP MEMORY AND FAST (OR SLOW) MEMORY IS LIKE PC VGA GRAPHIC CARD MEMORY AND ON THE OTHER HAND PC SYSTEM MEMORY.THE PC GAME DONT RUN ONLY WITH THE NVIDIAS OR ATI'S GRAPHIC CARD MEMORY.IT NEEDS DESPERATELY SYSTEM MEMORY TO RUN OTHER DONT RUN.SAME FOR THE AMIGA.IF ONE AMIGA HAS ONLY CHIP MEMORY HAS COMPATIBILITY ISSUES OR SLOWING GAMING.
@petsasjim1 I cannot thank you enough for typing all of that in capitals. If you think I read what you said you are wrong, because my eyes are bleeding.
It's pretty but the Amiga is still more impressive overall as a complete system.
The coprocessors in the Amiga such as the blitter compensated for the slower CPU except for 3D of course. Archimedes's potential was great but it was just too expensive for what it delivered. Yet another machine that deserved to bury the PC.
Remember watching this on our A440/1 in the early '90s. It was absolutely jaw dropping at the time. The rendition of Tocatta is amazing too, but it's a rip from an Amiga demo IIRC.
I wasn't just referring to 3D - I've written a little 2D code on both the ST and the Amiga as a learning exercise and with the ability to repoint the screen buffers with the copper the Amiga already picks up a lot of speed even before you start using the blitter for 2D operations.
You can use it as a line filler from what I gather to give it some kind of boost if you are clever (not managed this myself yet) from what I am told though, but you still lose out compared to the Arc due to the planar screenmodes.
The Archimedes didn't really have any hardware acceleration - arguably it had a faster CPU then the Amiga and ST but it lacked the acceleration of the Amiga.
It had chunky graphics modes which did reduce the amount of power needed to draw 3D graphics making it quicker than the ST and maybe the Amiga too.
Agreed. The first generation Archimedes (A310) used the ARM2 microprocessor that produced around 4 MIPS, the ARM3 (fitted in the A5000) that followed gave around 30 MIPS - extremely fast for a home PC of the time, and faster than Amiga's CPU. Amiga had the benefit of the "blitter" chip - a graphics accelerator that gave it a definite edge for games.
I RESPECT ARCHIMEDES REALLYBUT AMIGA HAS"DMA"DIRECT MEMORY ACCESS.ST HAS NOTHING BUT A SLIGHTLY FASTER CPU I HAD ATARI STE AND A500 AND1200.DMA IS THE KING.ALL CHIPS WORK GOES DIRECTLY TO THE MEMORY AND TO YOUR EYES DIRECTLY WITHOUT THE USE OF 68000.THIS IS EXACTLY THE "ONLY AMIGA" MEANING.
BLITTER AND COPPER AND FAT AGNUS AND DENISE AND M6502 AND OF COURSE PAULA BUT ALSO DRIVES AND ANYTHING ON AMIGA IS "DMA".THATS WHYIS SO NICE SCROLLING.WITHDMA "CPU IS FREE".TIMEHAS TELL US LOTS OF THINGS
petsasjim1 5 months ago
@petsasjim1 I'll address the bits I can read:
1) There is no 6502 in the Amiga - it's a 68000.
2) With the blitter the CPU isn't strictly free because blitter use creates extra memory accesses to chipRAM, temporarily blocking memory accesses by the CPU. Going off and working on data in fastRAM, or doing low memory access, high cycle count work limits this effect though.
3) I've read the comment 5 times and I still don't understand the DMA bit of the rant there
sackus 5 months ago
@sackus 1)THERE IS A M6502 IN AMIGA.ITS AN AUXILIARY PROCESSOR.IF YOU WANT TO SEE IT OPEN MESS AND CHOOSE PROPERTIES ON AMIGA 500.
2)"DMA" IS DIRECT MEMORY ACCESS AND DOES EXACTLY THAT THING WHAT IT SAYS.BLITTER COPPER FAT AGNUS DENISE M6502 PAULA ALL HAVE "DMA".ALL THE CHIPS FROM OTHER COMPUTERS "GOES" FIRST TO "CPU" AND THEN IN "MEMORY" THATS WHAT ATARI ST IS SO SLOW AND NO PERFECT OR EVEN GOOD SCROLLING.WITH "DMA" CPU IS ALMOST FREE BECAUSE ALMOST EVERYTHING FROM THE CHIP GOES :DMA: IN MEMORY
petsasjim1 5 months ago
@petsasjim1 Nope - that's a 6522 VIA (Versatile interface adaptor) - it's commonly found in 6502-based computers, but it isn't a 6502 and it doesn't do DMA.
I know what DMA is, but if you only have one memory bus and two devices want to access the memory at the same time one will have to wait (in the Amiga the CPU waits because the blitter has priority). That's why fastmem is called so, because the chipset can't see it. Blitting isn't free.
sackus 5 months ago
@sackus 1)IF THAT IS RIGHT THEN MESS HAS AN ERROR NOT ME.2)BUT THIS AUXILIARY CHIP EXISTS AND HELPS THE AMIGA EVEN WITHOUT DMA.3)EVEN OR NOT EVEN DMA EXIST.4)CHIP MEMORY AND FAST (OR SLOW) MEMORY IS LIKE PC VGA GRAPHIC CARD MEMORY AND ON THE OTHER HAND PC SYSTEM MEMORY.THE PC GAME DONT RUN ONLY WITH THE NVIDIAS OR ATI'S GRAPHIC CARD MEMORY.IT NEEDS DESPERATELY SYSTEM MEMORY TO RUN OTHER DONT RUN.SAME FOR THE AMIGA.IF ONE AMIGA HAS ONLY CHIP MEMORY HAS COMPATIBILITY ISSUES OR SLOWING GAMING.
petsasjim1 5 months ago
@petsasjim1 I cannot thank you enough for typing all of that in capitals. If you think I read what you said you are wrong, because my eyes are bleeding.
MediaFilter 4 months ago
It's pretty but the Amiga is still more impressive overall as a complete system.
The coprocessors in the Amiga such as the blitter compensated for the slower CPU except for 3D of course. Archimedes's potential was great but it was just too expensive for what it delivered. Yet another machine that deserved to bury the PC.
RabidRat88 1 year ago
Remember watching this on our A440/1 in the early '90s. It was absolutely jaw dropping at the time. The rendition of Tocatta is amazing too, but it's a rip from an Amiga demo IIRC.
russ0r 1 year ago
So as am Amiga lover, I have to say, this impressed me. From a viewers point of view, its hellishly more smoother.
nutellajunkie 1 year ago
I wasn't just referring to 3D - I've written a little 2D code on both the ST and the Amiga as a learning exercise and with the ability to repoint the screen buffers with the copper the Amiga already picks up a lot of speed even before you start using the blitter for 2D operations.
sackus 1 year ago
You can use it as a line filler from what I gather to give it some kind of boost if you are clever (not managed this myself yet) from what I am told though, but you still lose out compared to the Arc due to the planar screenmodes.
sackus 1 year ago
..great Dacato version!
CUR50R 2 years ago
this was to demonstrate the Archimedes hardware acceleration which was awsesome
hamster700 3 years ago
The Archimedes didn't really have any hardware acceleration - arguably it had a faster CPU then the Amiga and ST but it lacked the acceleration of the Amiga.
It had chunky graphics modes which did reduce the amount of power needed to draw 3D graphics making it quicker than the ST and maybe the Amiga too.
Everything was done using raw CPU power though.
sackus 3 years ago
Agreed. The first generation Archimedes (A310) used the ARM2 microprocessor that produced around 4 MIPS, the ARM3 (fitted in the A5000) that followed gave around 30 MIPS - extremely fast for a home PC of the time, and faster than Amiga's CPU. Amiga had the benefit of the "blitter" chip - a graphics accelerator that gave it a definite edge for games.
deejsteriser 3 years ago
Must have been absolutely incredible for the time.
RABBIDGamfan 4 years ago