Norway 2006 - Kumite Finals - Male 75kg - France V Italy

[iorenSao]

First of all, all you who think karate is weak, you actually have not competed in a real kumite match, its much more tough than it looks. Second, karate is much more than MMA. Third, yeah, they sometimes pull their punches in competition, but I can garantee you that if a fighter decides to give his all in his blows, you sure as hell don´t want to be in the way. The key to karate is to continue training the traditional way, but also adapting the speed of the modern karateka.

OSSS!!

[jpm7018]

2:20

Nice!!!

[shtitman]

de la touchette.. vive la jka

[dickmoe99]

so wheres jean claude van damme?

[alfyms]

vaya baile coreografiado,¿y esto es efectivo?y me quejaba del taekwondo wtf,por lo menos,hay contacto aunque se usen petos.

[MrRickyalanis]

its sparring there really is no "stance" and bouncing is good cuz its part of sparring and u would get ur shit handed to u if u fought these guys

[bladedge5979]

these dudes deserve a white belt, they bounce too much, they're using the same techniques, an they have no stance.

[WLoZoo]

Arbitraggio scandaloso...... dico solo questo

[benjeans]

Its gotta be said that is in fact very sloppy sparring! they bouce too high and its really slow

[ronin8996]

You're an idiot. Loria and Beaudry are World Class fighters.  Maybe you should point out their corrections when you face them, if you ever do....lol you're pathetic.

[benjeans]

seeming as i do MMA and not shitty points semi contact i think I would be more than happy to ground and pound them when they try and hit me with a 3 point head kick. I did points sparring when I was doing Taekwondo and I got two silvers in world championships so dont question my ability. If you dont believe me i can always send you the link that has my name on the WKA and WUMA world championship medal listings

[ronin8996]

MMA has its rules also, it's not real fighting either. To the extent that you participate in any game is the extent to which it would behoove you to strategize about the rules. These guys are excellent at what they do - Machida was a ippon-shobu/point fighter before his MMA career so maybe you should look at him for inspiration. I don't diss MMA b/c I train that stuff too, but I'm not arrogant enough to call some of the best at what they do "slow" b/c I happen to be critical of it as a whole.

[benjeans]

MMA is more real than points. As far as im concerned If i was sparring them as soon as they left the floor with their 2 inch bouncing they would get a side kick in the ribs as I know its another half second before they touch the floor again.

[ronin8996]

It's easy to be critical when we watch, I too see things that should've been done differently - the point is we have a vantage point to be critical, they're actually doing. I'm sure if either of these fighters "trained" MMA they would be as succesful at it as they are at WKF kumite, again it's all about adhering to the rules of the game which you submit to. MMA may be more real than "points", but it's still pointed, and not "real", so it's still a game.

[benjeans]

I can understand that, Im sure if they watched me fight they would give me some advice we're not all perfect. MMA is as real to a real fight as you are going to get, whereas this is more a show of skill and technique as opposed to a real fight where you aim to injure your opponent, in points its very disrespectful to intentionally hurt and opponent

[ronin8996]

Yeah what you're saying is true, albeit that MMA is as real to a fight as you're gonna get, cause it's still a game, so it's still not real. Small joint locks, friends, bottles, lions tigers and bears oh my - all of this is too illegal in MMA. So, my beef wasn't that you yourself had an opinion that was different than mine, just that you we disrespectful in how you voiced it, and that's a character trait.

[benjeans]

Yes well you have to have rules, I did say as real as your going to get within a legal sport, You have to have rules to insure fighters safety and longevity. And dont pretend like your some kind of psychologist who can judge my character by one comment. How it was voiced was more likely to be due to the mood I was in at the time. I feel it was voiced in a respectful way, I didnt call them rubbish I just said the sparring was a bit sloppy. I have not once been disrespectful while speaking to you

[ronin8996]

Do you? I thought we were talking about "real" here. And I'm not a psychologist, I was only a psych. double-major, but that matters not - you have a chance to leave impressions or not - and the ones you do is your choice.

[benjeans]

since when we're we talking about real?? we were talking about as real as you can get ( but within a sport ). I have no proof that you double majored im just going to have to believe you. And im not sure whether that was a crack at me but ive left no bad impressions, It was in fact you who were disrespectful towards me in calling me pathetic

[ronin8996]

And, ftr, before we start slinging di$ks here, I've also competed in several state, national, and world championships, medaling in probably 95% of things I enter, I just don't find it prudent to post-office that information as if it adds any validity to the truth or my statements...but then again that's logic 101...

[benjeans]

I offered the information to you so I could prove to you that I have grounds from which to be critical, having fought and placed at a world class rather than being some jumped up twat who doesnt know what he's talking about.

[acerwk]

Sport karate sucks

[tecomeramon]

tanto marcar y tanta posturita está jodiendo el karate, como no cambie va a ser una tonteria. Gana gente rápida que si hubiese más contacto, no se comia un colin, a mi me ha ganado gente a puntos que si me dejan desarrolar golpes no duran 4 leches,...

[KarateTips]

Gotta love the takedown at 2:23

[ODawg2007]

heart heart c

[XmaNinja]

Crashedsnow... did you just say gyaku zuki's are weak?? a reverse punch executed well is perhaps one of the most powerful techniques... i agree that karate has changed over time but all styles to some extent change... even Funakoshi said that his style will eventually change over time. I just competed in NAS today, and i have to admit that it is defiantly more sport than traditional, but everything changes...

[crashedsnow]

No no.. I agree, gyaku zuki can be an awesomely powerful technique, but we don't often see a "real" one in tournament fighting.  My comment relates to techniques seen in sport karate tournaments, and the general lack of effectiveness that comes with them (aside from scoring points)

[crashedsnow]

This is a long way from traditional kumite. Sure there's a place for these tournaments, but make no mistake... this is SPORT karate, not traditional Karate. You only have to look at the Kihon and Kata we learn to see that many effective techniques are "forbidden" in these tournaments. Hisa Geri, Enpi uchi, Gedan uchi/geri.. all valid techniques, all banned in sport karate. All we have now is a torrent of fast, but weak gyaku zuki. This will be the ultimate demise of a truly wonderful art.

[zacowako5]

openmicsurgeory, fantastic comment lol

[Massdojo]

MMA is MMA. Kumite is kumite. I teach both. No way any MMA fighter wants to go punch with these guys especially with the gloves off. Even MMA has it rules. For example: No small joint manipulation. So to make a generalized statement about these guys getting killed in MMA is just plain stupid and ignorant. So, don't sweat it karate people... karate will be in the Olympics soon enough and we will all be damn proud.

[consistentbass]

Sir I reply specifically to you because of your knowledge and experience. I like this fight. How ever I would like to mention that there is ambiguity as to how points are scored. I saw many "points" that I saw the blue guy land before the red guy and that went unaccounted for. Maybe the points were given to the red fighter for his aggressiveness. Is that a consideration in tournament point scoring?

This is ambiguity is one of the reasons I have turned away from this type of fighting(points).

[Paitro202]

this isn't points fighting, it traditional or kumite

[consistentbass]

enlighten me, please. How do "win" in kumite.

Traditional, what I consider traditional, is a formal duel agreement between individuals. Rules or terms are formally discussed if not previously arranged such as combat to death, One gives up or accepts the superiority of his opponent, terms such as time, place, types of moves allowed, for example : no hits to the groin, no punches to the face, or no intentionally deadly moves.

So please explain Kumite, or your version of traditional.

[Paitro202]

grrrrrrr, look, traditional and kumite are the same thing

[BradMMA]

When talking about Karate, the kumite, in which my Sensei describes it, is like a game of tag. It's the sport side of things. But then you have your "BUDO", which is the traditional, 2000 year old, Okinawin techniques used to devistating affects on the ancient battle fields. Some Senseis don't want anything to do with the kumite because its not karate. Karate = 1 blow kills. Eyes,throat,etc. Karate and sport is like giving someone a gun but telling them they can't shoot it.

[BradMMA]

This "IS" points fighting. And you can't put traditional in the same sentence as kumite/sport, because it's the farthest thing from similar. Traditional karate/true karate, can't be demonstrated unless you can go back in time to the Okinawin battle fields 2000 years ago. Karate was designed to kill, just like a gun. Can you turn gun fire into a sport without tweaking things? That's why you can't turn karate into a sport. The kumite in my mind is a bad miss-understanding of what karate truly is.

[Paitro202]

haha this is tradtitonal not points, oh dear, you realy need to get your facts straight

[BradMMA]

Are you foolish? Go to 1:37 of the match. The reff calls the point. Then look at the digital ticker, it then says " AkA: Ippon. Aka which means "red side", and ippon which means point. So get "your" facts straight.

[Paitro202]

yes, well how else can one win if he doesnt gain points duh????, and ippon is a traditional word, karate has many styles, but to forms, old tradtitonal fighting, and the modern POINTS FIGHTING

[BradMMA]

The language doesen't change the fact that it's points fighting! The word wether it be english japanese, french etc, doesent change that it's points fighting. You gain points to win. Points fighting = kumite Traditional fighting = Samurai warriors on the Okinawin battle field 2000 years ago.

Jesus, just because they changed "point" from Enlgish to Japanese doesen't change the fighting style!

[Koensol]

@Massdojo if karate becomes olympic sport.. it will die! same happened to TKD

[littlehc4life]

bel combattimento, a parte il tifo fastidiosissimo

[ZhaoDrek]

hey man, i practice karate, and the height of the person in a fight dont matter, in the kumite (combat) you only need two things and thats are SPEED AND AGILYTY, and the weight is only to separate the fighters in groups.

if you practice this sport for much time you lear one important thing, the man who attack more time, dont really gonna win the fight always

[ishbla]

this is gay

[Paitro202]

no, im pretty sure your gay

[zacowako5]

lololololololololololololololo­lololol

[scottmasson01]

yer sure Speed and Agility have massive amounts to do with it but a longer reach is gonna help. For instance if two guys were just as quick as each other, the guy with the longer reach will have the advantage, spesh if his shorter opponent's style is more out-fighting than in-fighting

[openmicsurgery]

i see how you cornballs critique these guys fighting...but realize...they do this for a living. and train at their country's olympic training facility. i'm sure all of you have "lots of fighting experience"...haha...but when you train karate for a living...especially sport karate...you learn the game better than those who watch it on youtube. and unnowen and exprez...save your ignorant remarks for your local la fitness cardio kickboxing class. dishwashers.

[Littlebiger]

sooooooo true!

[pamwell]

i just dont know y the guy in red running and not attacking.he has long arms and the advantage of being toll in a fight is a big bonus but he is not using any of those advantages.advace to toll karate guys is :you have a good chance of bulling short fighters so use your advantage, on top of that u trained alot to find difficulty in fighting.

[derJunge75]

lol

Because of waiting and interceptions he got the fight.tactic..

[mido77sh]

mmmmmmmmmmmm it's very good

[Ibseninn]

That's some risky fighting style that aka (guess he's from France) has, he's all open just asking for some offense so he can counter his opponent.

One other thing that gets my attention is that when he goes in a deep position he keeps on fixing his pants.

[KKFromTheBlock]

I completly agree with you

lolkentrash7727 i have a brown belt in karate (Shito Ryu)and you are right, you've said it all man no need for me to say anything

[exprez1022]

wow looks like a "pansy" version of UFC

[ramroun]

They are 6 criteria ( not easy to see all) 1-good form.2-sporting attitude.3-vigorous application.4-awareness(Zanshi­n).5-good timing.6-correct distance.

[LethalGuppy]

to it me ti seems they just rushin against each other...no tactics anywhere..seldom giri kaeshi, no attack from another direction than from the front, being in the attakcing distnace from the oppenent nearly evrey time, from time to time no kime...

i wouldnt do it any better of course, but i think for international athletes, they should do better;)

[andreasound]

Yeah man ur right. But that's the way the french guy fights, and if the referee accepts that kinda shite punches..well it's clear that the level of the fight sinks. you should see Loria (the blue one) fight with competitors who can do some good karate. You would see another sport, literally

[lolkentrash7727]

Actually it's all strategisied. They move around the way they do, the man in the red is on the defense, waiting for the guy in the blue (Loria) too attack, so that he can properly counter. The only problem is, Loria's hands are in the right position, whilst the man in the red keeps his hands down (like an idiot, since the first thing you learn as a child, for those like me who spend there whole life learning Gojuryu, is too keep your hands up)

[unnowen99]

yeh but at a distance there is no need for your hands to be to high, but tha guy in the red is a complete idiot lol

[enitox]

Aburrido en realidad.. shito ryu RULES...

[mariaai]

go norway

[ursacheundwirkung]

When you have closer look at 1:08 you see that red MISSES blue.

Wonder why the strike at 1:10 was not ippon for red; to me it looked like a clean empi.

@ smooth108

power in techniques depends how one uses his hip. In low stances this is more difficult, but in high stances one can use his hip to a much greater extent, therefore delivering much more effective blows.

[smooth108]

the punch has to be solid if it wouldent work on the street it wouldent work in the worlds these guys are fighting for the best in the world these arent national athletes the guys are tryin to be the best ever now because of the fact that he was verry high in his stance there was no pwer what so ever in sure that punch was lighter than a peace of paper hittin you

[BohemianDre]

I don't quite understand the rules here. I can see where if the fighters clash they don't get a point (i.e. they have to strike with a clean technique without being immediately countered), but at 1:08 to 1:11, the person with red gear rushes in a gets a clean solid reverse punch, and then another but he doesn't get any call, so his opponent then lands a shot to the head but person with red gear gets no point. I just don't get it. How do you score points in this type of tournament?

[Terryhasnopubes]

He dsnt land them perfectly. Simple as that. At this level it has to be, powerful, correct distance, correct technique, good zanchin etc. It must satisfy every one of the many criteria to score successfully

[ramroun]

They are 6 criteria ( not easy to see all) 1-good form.2-sporting attitude.3-vigorous application.4-awareness(Zanshi­n).5-good timing.6-correct distance.

[azertyuiop4400]

rooo la balayette mdr