You have a point regarding social conservatives. I am against universal health care and I am an atheist. Health care is not a natural right. Positive rights such as health care undermine negative rights such as the right to be left alone.
@SCRYER1973 Humans are different than other species. We can evolve to the point where health care is a right. Society determines rights.
Natural rights are instinctual. They are law. That means I can kill you for no reason. People are murdered everyday even though they have the "right" to be left alone.
@eyeswideopen82: Individual rights are moral principles that define a person's freedom of action in a social context. They are not the right to an object but the right to take the actions necessary to produce or earn that object. No one has the right to vote away a person's life or the material values that sustain it. To force an individual to pay for welfare is to deny his right to keep the values he earned. The proponents of the welfare state have no moral leg to stand on.
@SCRYER1973 Rights are completely subjective. You have your own opinion of what is right and just.
Frankly, I don't mind paying a tiny fraction to help others. I don't view the world in black and white. Social welfare programs help many people. Ask any social worker.
@eyeswideopen82: If there is no objective truth, fact, or reality in ethics then what will you do if you promote political freedom on the grounds that you "feel" it is good and later find yourself facing down an aggressive thug who announces he feels quite differently?
Taking from others won't give value to money. Not all of the sad stories in the world will produce the bread you'll need to live on tomorrow.
@SCRYER1973 There is an objective truth, fact and reality in ethics. The truth, fact and reality is whatever our leaders dictate. Currently, our leaders support social programs. Thugs existed long before entitlement programs.
"Taking"? No one is taking from me. I choose to remain in this country, so I am allowing the government to take my money. Conservatives always tell the opposition to either suck it up or leave. Well, welfare has been around for a long time.....
@eyeswideopen82: Your position begs the question. If a dictator decides to kill citizens then according to you his actions are moral. Moral by what standard?
To be more complete one could say: 1) "Nobody is killing me. 2) I choose to remain in this country, so I am allowing the government to kill me". The former denies the action committed by the aggressor. The latter blames the individual for the violation. Your position implicitly denies the individual's right to his own life.
@eyeswideopen82: Your position also sanctions the initiation of force against the individual. When force becomes the standard in a society then the focus shifts from who can be the best producer, creator, or inventor to who can be the best pickpocket, thief, and destroyer. Such a society eventually collapses under the weight of its brutality. A country's prosperity corresponds to the degree its individuals are free. History supports me.
@SCRYER1973 I'm forced to have car insurance. I'm forced to fund a out-of-control military complex. I'm forced to pay the salary of all government employees. I'm forced to pay for the bail-out of corporations that failed of their own volition.
The focus hasn't shifted. The rich are still rich and the poor are still poor. People are still creating and producing.
History may support you, but nothing is imminent. Stop worrying so much.
@eyeswideopen82: Driving is a privilege, not a right. ALL of the other examples you list are failures of government interventions and do not happen in a free market.
The U.S. is like an obese diabetic facing a foot amputation as a direct result of his excessive diet and lack of exercise. Blanking out reality and biting down on the king sized candy bar won't stop the Law of Cause and Effect.
$227B trade deficit to China. U.S. doesn't produce nearly enough raw materials.
@SCRYER1973 What a stretch that was. Using murder to argue against my last post.
The former doesn't deny the action, because there was no action committed. The latter does blame the individual, but I don't always see it in that light.
If you had brown hair and someone warned you that the government was killing all people with brown hair in your region, that would give you ample time to flee. Death could be avoided. If you had no warning and were killed, I would not blame the victim.
@eyeswideopen82: It is not a stretch. Taxation is a violation of property rights. Individuals have a right to keep what they earn through their productivity. Humans, by our nature, have to be free to produce and trade. The moral principle of the right to life is the same in either case.
@eyeswideopen82: 1)"Nobody is taking from me." 2)"I choose to remain in this country, so I am allowing the government to take my money." Both are contradictory statements. You state the former doesn’t deny the action because no action was taken but then you proceed to blame the individual for the action that wasn’t taken. In this post you also deny the action (taxation) that you support in earlier posts.
@eyeswideopen82: In addition, your personal support of taxation isn't a factor in this matter. The government will take from your income regardless of your support. No moral virtue is involved where no choices exist.
@eyeswideopen82: Not every citizen with advanced warning can flee. Some may be forced by circumstances to stay and fight or surrender and die. In any case the violation of the moral standard rests on the aggressing government. Governments that arbitrarily murder its citizens have no moral right to exist. The individuals in this example do because they haven’t violated any one’s rights and are not to blame for the actions taken by the offending government.
@SCRYER1973 ...Clearly it is here to stay. Conservatives have had plenty of time to pack their bags and find a better nation. They have also had plenty of time to eliminate and/or reform entitlement programs.
You don't like the government taking your money? Move. Problem solved. Stop allowing them to take your hard-earned money. Time to bite the personal responsibility bullet your party often fires at the left.
@eyeswideopen82: I am not a Conservative. Conservatives want to take this country back on the ground of tradition. They believe god is the source of rights; that faith is superior to reason. Their position is not unlike the Left's mystical faith in society. Conservatives herald themselves as the defenders of Capitalism. Nothing could be more dangerous and further from the truth.
The denial of the individual always leads to violence once established in a political system.
they don't want socialism,but they want a God country where everyone is the same,and God's will is carried out, meaning that everyone is a robot with a role to play.
You have a point regarding social conservatives. I am against universal health care and I am an atheist. Health care is not a natural right. Positive rights such as health care undermine negative rights such as the right to be left alone.
SCRYER1973 1 year ago
@SCRYER1973 Humans are different than other species. We can evolve to the point where health care is a right. Society determines rights.
Natural rights are instinctual. They are law. That means I can kill you for no reason. People are murdered everyday even though they have the "right" to be left alone.
eyeswideopen82 1 year ago
@eyeswideopen82: Individual rights are moral principles that define a person's freedom of action in a social context. They are not the right to an object but the right to take the actions necessary to produce or earn that object. No one has the right to vote away a person's life or the material values that sustain it. To force an individual to pay for welfare is to deny his right to keep the values he earned. The proponents of the welfare state have no moral leg to stand on.
SCRYER1973 1 year ago
@SCRYER1973 Rights are completely subjective. You have your own opinion of what is right and just.
Frankly, I don't mind paying a tiny fraction to help others. I don't view the world in black and white. Social welfare programs help many people. Ask any social worker.
eyeswideopen82 1 year ago
@eyeswideopen82: If there is no objective truth, fact, or reality in ethics then what will you do if you promote political freedom on the grounds that you "feel" it is good and later find yourself facing down an aggressive thug who announces he feels quite differently?
Taking from others won't give value to money. Not all of the sad stories in the world will produce the bread you'll need to live on tomorrow.
SCRYER1973 1 year ago
@SCRYER1973 There is an objective truth, fact and reality in ethics. The truth, fact and reality is whatever our leaders dictate. Currently, our leaders support social programs. Thugs existed long before entitlement programs.
"Taking"? No one is taking from me. I choose to remain in this country, so I am allowing the government to take my money. Conservatives always tell the opposition to either suck it up or leave. Well, welfare has been around for a long time.....
eyeswideopen82 1 year ago
@eyeswideopen82: Your position begs the question. If a dictator decides to kill citizens then according to you his actions are moral. Moral by what standard?
To be more complete one could say: 1) "Nobody is killing me. 2) I choose to remain in this country, so I am allowing the government to kill me". The former denies the action committed by the aggressor. The latter blames the individual for the violation. Your position implicitly denies the individual's right to his own life.
SCRYER1973 1 year ago
@eyeswideopen82: Your position also sanctions the initiation of force against the individual. When force becomes the standard in a society then the focus shifts from who can be the best producer, creator, or inventor to who can be the best pickpocket, thief, and destroyer. Such a society eventually collapses under the weight of its brutality. A country's prosperity corresponds to the degree its individuals are free. History supports me.
SCRYER1973 1 year ago
@SCRYER1973 I'm forced to have car insurance. I'm forced to fund a out-of-control military complex. I'm forced to pay the salary of all government employees. I'm forced to pay for the bail-out of corporations that failed of their own volition.
The focus hasn't shifted. The rich are still rich and the poor are still poor. People are still creating and producing.
History may support you, but nothing is imminent. Stop worrying so much.
eyeswideopen82 1 year ago
@eyeswideopen82: Driving is a privilege, not a right. ALL of the other examples you list are failures of government interventions and do not happen in a free market.
The U.S. is like an obese diabetic facing a foot amputation as a direct result of his excessive diet and lack of exercise. Blanking out reality and biting down on the king sized candy bar won't stop the Law of Cause and Effect.
$227B trade deficit to China. U.S. doesn't produce nearly enough raw materials.
SCRYER1973 1 year ago
@SCRYER1973 What a stretch that was. Using murder to argue against my last post.
The former doesn't deny the action, because there was no action committed. The latter does blame the individual, but I don't always see it in that light.
If you had brown hair and someone warned you that the government was killing all people with brown hair in your region, that would give you ample time to flee. Death could be avoided. If you had no warning and were killed, I would not blame the victim.
eyeswideopen82 1 year ago
@eyeswideopen82: It is not a stretch. Taxation is a violation of property rights. Individuals have a right to keep what they earn through their productivity. Humans, by our nature, have to be free to produce and trade. The moral principle of the right to life is the same in either case.
SCRYER1973 1 year ago
@eyeswideopen82: 1)"Nobody is taking from me." 2)"I choose to remain in this country, so I am allowing the government to take my money." Both are contradictory statements. You state the former doesn’t deny the action because no action was taken but then you proceed to blame the individual for the action that wasn’t taken. In this post you also deny the action (taxation) that you support in earlier posts.
SCRYER1973 1 year ago
@eyeswideopen82: In addition, your personal support of taxation isn't a factor in this matter. The government will take from your income regardless of your support. No moral virtue is involved where no choices exist.
SCRYER1973 1 year ago
@eyeswideopen82: Not every citizen with advanced warning can flee. Some may be forced by circumstances to stay and fight or surrender and die. In any case the violation of the moral standard rests on the aggressing government. Governments that arbitrarily murder its citizens have no moral right to exist. The individuals in this example do because they haven’t violated any one’s rights and are not to blame for the actions taken by the offending government.
SCRYER1973 1 year ago
@SCRYER1973 ...Clearly it is here to stay. Conservatives have had plenty of time to pack their bags and find a better nation. They have also had plenty of time to eliminate and/or reform entitlement programs.
You don't like the government taking your money? Move. Problem solved. Stop allowing them to take your hard-earned money. Time to bite the personal responsibility bullet your party often fires at the left.
eyeswideopen82 1 year ago
@eyeswideopen82: I am not a Conservative. Conservatives want to take this country back on the ground of tradition. They believe god is the source of rights; that faith is superior to reason. Their position is not unlike the Left's mystical faith in society. Conservatives herald themselves as the defenders of Capitalism. Nothing could be more dangerous and further from the truth.
The denial of the individual always leads to violence once established in a political system.
SCRYER1973 1 year ago
@eyeswideopen82: I'm not going anywhere. :-)
SCRYER1973 1 year ago
great vid:) five stars all the way
Satori1800 2 years ago
Wiseass,will you talk about the Christian Side Hug?
FunETman 2 years ago 2
kinda funny yet incredibly sad.
FunETman 2 years ago 2
they don't want socialism,but they want a God country where everyone is the same,and God's will is carried out, meaning that everyone is a robot with a role to play.
FunETman 2 years ago 2
they are also the same people that have no problem with writing a blank check for wars.....
hellshade2 2 years ago 3