O'Donnell is 100% wrong in his argument.The Catholic Church does not say the death penalty is an intrinsic evil.It sates the death penalty should be used in limited cases. It clearly states that abortion is an intrinsic evil. Euthanasia is an intrinsic evil. Embryonic stem cell use is an intrinsic evil. Cloning is an intrinsic evil. Abortion and the death penalty can not be compared. One is always 100% innocent always.
@hatemorethanyou999 o'donnell didn't win this arguement. he is an idiot if he can't tell the difference between an innocent baby and a convicted murderer
@lareneg72 I'm saying that like it or not abortion is a form of birth control that has been practiced throughout recorded human history and nothing is going to change this. So we have two choices: #1. make birth control like the morning after pill legal and available so we minimize safe, legal abortions. or #2. We have yet another reason to put people in jail. I'm also saying (fact) for every one abortion there are at least 25 people who die of starvation. If lives are what you want to save . .
@hatemorethanyou999 Don't even fret this fool. Clearly some people cannot see that pointing out the hypocrisy of somebody's opinion doesn't mean that you are on the side of their opponent. lareneg72 had to resort to asking YOU whether YOU believe that abortion is the same as putting a murderer to death, demonstrating ignorance, stupidity and logical fallacy beautiful, and simultaneously. Don't fret these people. ;)
Dang! LAWRENCE IS AN IDIOT!!! He is angry from wife problems. Catholic Church allows or permits death penalty only if extreme cases such as risk of prisoner escaping to kill again. If not, locked them up forever. SIMPLE!
@6630mcdo No it doesn't. Do you just make up facts? I will only reply to you if you can show me where in CURRENT canon law where it says such a thing.
@StrangeIsMyWorld Unless you are a cannon lawyer, what good does it do? I know Catholicism very well and only in extreme cases, i.e., where a prisoner can escape and murders again.
@6630mcdo The official stance of the Roman Catholic Church since the "Declaration of the Holy See to the first world congress on the death penalty "Issued Strasbourg, 21 June 2001. States "The universal abolition of the death penalty would be a courageous reaffirmation of the belief that humankind can be successful in dealing with criminality and of our refusal to succumb to despair." I asked you to produce the law because I know there is no such statute.
Lord...O'Donnell is so awful. Buchannan isn't too savvy either for falling for his tactics. Here's what his response should have been - "LO: Why did they allow Bush to come to the campus? PB: I don't know, that's not what we're talking about."
Instead PB made himself look like a fool by getting all emotional.
@dustinseth1 LMAO, thats your argument, thats not what were talking about, I beg to differ, were talking about why one president would be allowed and the other wouldnt,,,, Obama didn't make the abortion law, who cares what his opinion is, bush has real blood on his hands,
@thebestanswerever whoa whoa, let's not get into a bush v obama thing. I am a fan of neither man, so please don't' assume any position other than that which I explicitly state. I was only critiquing their argumentative tactics. The interview begins with the host asking why some people would want to yell at him for being in favor of Obama going to notre dame, so I evaluated the arguments on those grounds, upon which LO's mention of bush is a diversion and not a proper counter-argument.
@thebestanswerever That said, there may have been more to this than what is show, which vindicates LO's use of a seeming diversion. I am only going on this video. If you want my opinion on the issue I don't give a shit where any president goes, as long as he doesn't violate anyone's property rights.
Sticks and stones may break my bones but NAMES will NEVER hurt me. White and Catholic TRUE! I have most likely done for for my black friends than you've never done for anyone, including your family members.
@Arkayem since you hate Pat, I will ask you why you say he won this round. O'Donnell makes just one statement, that the Church and Pope oppose the death penalty no less than they oppose abortion. Pat can not get around that fact so he just argues the merits of HIS view on 2 issues as a Catholic, but fails to rebut that the Pope does not distinguish between 2 "evils" (death penalty and abortion).
If you must know condoms doesn't work all the time especially if you have my kinda size to fit them! those things ripped easily and the birth control too doesn't always work. I have gotten my wife pregnant several times on birth control alone so this does goes on alot more than stupid stats shows. In the last fifty years the amount of abortions is ten times that number and that's a fact. Every family has secrets and abortions is one of them. Every girl knows someone who done it.
O'donnell saw an opening for a upper cut and nailed that one sided, one track mind old fart, who only believes that abortion is the highest crime. Can you imagine if there were no abortions our population would be hitting a billion by now and I on the other hand would technically fathered at least 35 kids by now, birth control keeps my wife and I at two beautiful children. Look family planning is essential these days and women should be given the choice to choose especially in rape cases etc.
@kingofsprints Our population would not be hitting a billion. We abort about a million babies per year, which is 30 more million people since 1980. That would bring our population to 338 million.
You ever heard of a condom? Maybe a birth control pill. That's birth control. Women should choose whether or not they want to have babies, not whether or not they have a right to kill a baby. And how many abortions are performed because of rape? Less than 1%.
@Drahthaar422 Look genius that number is totally wrong! I stand by closing in on a billion mark, because there are many more people doing abortions that the numbers shows, even Conservatives and Catholics alike. Just go to your community clinic and you'll see christians,muslims and suburban whites girls lining up discretely. A fetus is not a full term pregnancy and that's where Catholics and Conversatives like you lost y'all stupid minds. Women should be allowed to chose for themselves.
Pat was wrong again: there are convicts who go to prison for decades or to deathrow, who increasingly of late it has been shown by forensic sciences that they were innocent. Laurence is right to equate Pat's statement on Bush and the death penalty, with his own on Obama and abortion.
I'm a Catholic and guess what O'Donnell is beyond right. How dare any man who says he belives in the church and is part of the chruch allow a man who allowed the death penalty, something elicity banned in the bible and against the papal. Now answer this, how many times is abortion said in the bible? Abortion is something to talk about but no church or catholic school should ban a president who has never committed an abortion! yet allow a persident who allows torture and murder. Think about that.
Lawrence O'Donnell needs to be quiet, but his point is clearly superior to Buchanan's and his facts are correct where Pat's aren't. I went to Catholic school for 5 years and I can tell you for a fact that they are against the death penalty.
LOL. O'Donnell is so insane. His MO is to interrupt ppl & to repeat the same phrases over & over again, with elevating amplitude & crazy look in his eyes. He's such a useless douche.
Here's what the Catholic Church teaches regarding the death penalty. CCC2266 Preserving the common good ... requires rendering the aggressor unable to inflict harm. For this reason the...Church has acknowledged as well-founded the right...of public authority to punish malefactors by means commensurate with the gravity of the crime, not excluding...the death penalty.
The loudmouth O'Donnel is wrong, as are the idiots in the comments below. Look it up in the Catechism.
@1ndabag That's what life prison sentences are for. An inmate in high security prison can't inflict harm on anyone but himself. Pope John Paul II clearly spoke out against death penalty.
@91dodgespiritrt Oh god, you are a fucking idiot. O'Donnell asks: Is the Catholic church as opposed to capital punishment as it is to abortion? The answer: YES. So buchanan, who thinks one is better than the other, is just as much an enemy to the Catholic church as OBAMA. GET IT? DUHHHRRRRRRRR.
@TheNewMusicNetwork Oh god, you are a fucking idiot. O'Donnell asks: Is the Catholic church as opposed to capital punishment as it is to abortion? The answer: YES. So buchanan, who thinks one is better than the other, is just as much an enemy to the Catholic church as OBAMA. GET IT? DUHHHRRRRRRRR.
awwwww is widdle mikey getting off on arguing about NOTHING with other bozos on teh internets?
How much is he gonna be wanting back all the time he squandered when his idle calls him up in an absolute panic saying omg omg how did this freak get all this intel on me, he's even got court documents on what really went down with face. OMG OMG, WHO IS HE?
@snackmybitchup i think u meant "idol" HAHAHA. Yes, we're dealing with a GENIUS here!
You see, "idle" is someone who sits at a computer spending all their time googling handles, making fake profiles and writing gobbledy-gook messages that he THINKS is scaring people. Yes, anyone who can make a youtube profile is SCARY!!! HAHAHA. Say hi to Suckey!
@Shamborn you had your chance to get everything spelled out all right at Rubilad, BOZO
Face it the art stars are crumbling from within as you all are all in a huge circular jerk off firing squad as the Rat Amongst You takes potshots. Makes my jab easier to just stand by the side and laugh at akll you attention whores turn yourself into "victims" . . . stay on guard tho, I'm not of a mind to be so charitable next time towards you or your more litigious associates.
I'd be willing to abolish the death penalty if we could also abolish abortion. We kill murderers to make the families of the victims feel better. We kill unborn babies to make life easier for the mother, and sometimes the father. We really need conservatives to start adopting children who were deemed "inconvenient". If women realize that their child will go to a loving family, they'll decide not to kill it. Doesn't that make sense?
@wiz9496 adoption exists today..there is a shortage of children eligible for adoption thus some US parents have to go overseas to adopt..abortion will always be the preferred option by some since it only takes a few hours to resolve the "problem".
O'Donnell.....What a know it all.....If he knows so fucking much, why not run for office ??? GO AND FIX WASHINGTON YOU IDIOT.....Pat slapped him down big time !!!!!
@bobbyozb Oh god, you are a fucking idiot. O'Donnell asks: Is the Catholic church as opposed to capital punishment as it is to abortion? The answer: YES. So buchanan, who thinks one is better than the other, is just as much an enemy to the Catholic church as OBAMA. GET IT? DUHHHRRRRRRRR.
Buchannan got pwned in this and exposed as a fraud. Per the Catholic theology A) All humans are born in original sin (not born innocent). B) The Catholic Church via the Pope's own statements now condemnsabortion and the death penalty and Pat's assertion that "not evevry Catholic is opposed to the death penalty" is meaningless because they have no say in Catholic theology. They must follow the Pope's assertions.
@SupernautG I would also add the last two Popes declared that the Iraqi was was an unjustified war according to Catholic theology and they still had Bush who started the war at the Catholic university.
buchannan has not forgotten, but refuses to acknowledge that his little party came out and warned that to vote for a democratic presidential would result in a puppet controlled by a leader in a fictional country. That candidate....?
even the bible is against death penalty well the second testament is bot anyway "he who is without sin cast the first stone" just to throw it in there ^^
@mueygringo Right...i guess you are either stupid or retarded, or deaf, as you did not hear o'donnell say numerous times that the anti-death penalty and anti-iraq war stance were those of the pope, not him. To say obama hasnt the right to speak at a university (that recieves federal money, btw) because he thinks citizens should have the right to choose, as compared to bush who launched an illegal war on a country and personally signed off on numerous executions against the wishes of the pope.
@louiscaponecchia In regard to the first statement, you have me confused with your Momma.
O'Donnel comes right out that he had a Catholic upbringing . He states that the Catholics would not be divided Catholics Bishops and Priests were opposed ND People were Arrested for exercising free speech. That Obama gestapo doesn't respect any rights. Remember Notre dame is a private institution and a Catholic University, Not a government entity. Nearly 65.000 Catholics petitioned against this.
@mueygringo right..and i think you are missing the point..catholics are stupid, and 65,000 right wingers hardly represent the millions of catholics in america. They get spiritual advice from pedophiles. What o'donnell said, as you reiterated, he had a "catholic upbringing". So did Bill Maher and George Carlin, you fuckin dickhole.
Notre Dame still recieves federal money, as do several colleges. It doesnt have to be a government entity"...whatever that is. And what, pray tell, are Obama Gestapo?
Nothing like a ginned-up hysteria to get the crazies to the polls. How else would Republicans get their low-information base riled up? If it wasn't wedge issues, they might actually start thinking. God forbid they wonder why they're slipping further and further behind in their lives, and why this nation cannot deal with real-world issues.
The truth is that you don't always know if someone who is on death row is really guilty or not. So "incase" that person is innocent, you should NOT be in favor of the death penalty. And it is also equally as hard to make the distinction in war. Because most people do not know if their gov. is really fighting in wars do to what they consider "just cause". So if you are against abortion, you should be equally against the death penalty or wars for the sake of killing innocent people.
Pats a total idiot. DNA tests have shown that many innocent people have been convicted of crimes they didn't do so why is he saying everyone who was executed was guilty of murder. The Governor of Illinois stopped executions a few years back cause he understood innocent people get convicted.
The subject is about the Catholic Church's opinion of Obama's views not your views on religion. I'm an atheist. But I can at least stay on topic.
"(which I suppose to some degree, I can),"
Well, there ya go. This concession just proves my point.
"it would not matter an ounce."
What? So you can rank them but then you claim that this doesn't matter? Pure cognitive dissonance on your part, buddy. The fact that you can rank them implies that differences between various sins does matter.
@Debaser11 Oh my goodness... Now, the 'concession' does not prove anything other than the fact my original point was correct. You seem to have disagreed with a point I made that you agreed with.
I'm an atheist, I'm somebody that despises religion, I do believe that you can be moral in the absence of religion, religion does not believe that you can be moral without it.
I'm seriously at a loss for words, your last point ratified mine again, and you can't see it! Unbelievable...
I also want to add that Lawerence O'Donnell is completely distorting matters. Just b/c the church is against the death penalty and abortion does not mean that the church finds them to be morally the same. I'm against premeditated and second degree murder. That doesn't mean I think they are morally the same. O'Donnell either needs to choose his words more carefully or stop making disingenuous arguments.
Lawrence O'Donnell pointed out the hypocrisy of the right's argument and it isn't pretty. Pat Buchanan is one of the BIGGEST bigoted, racist a-ssholes in America.
@chinchonchinchon Is it also wrong to swat a fly or kill a spider? Is that murder? I don't think so, but I doubt you have even a fraction of the understanding to equate or even begin to understand the ignorant dogma you propagate as the drone that you are.
@chinchonchinchon Wow, you're the new crowned King of false dichotomies, congratulations Sir!
I'll try to type slowly for you as I explain that monumental issues of life or death should not be decided by the "knee jerk" reactions of the most ignorant, uneducated and ill informed segments of our population.
The concept of justice has a long and proud history if you care to begin educating yourself. Perhaps you should watch the series by the Harvard professor Michael Sandel here on youtube.
@chinchonchinchon I KNOW you don't have a clue, that's the point BillyBob.
Google "Blastocyst" and tell me if there is any difference in the neo cortex of the blastocyst and a late term pregnancy... oh? wait? there is no neo cortex in a blastocyst? Well BillyBob, that may be step one in a long journey for you before you have anything relevant to say on the issue.
@chinchonchinchon Ummm... no, I just don't find honor, virtue or integrity within arrogant ignorance. What God wants you to glorify him by being an ignorant moron?
Oh! stop being so melodramatic and don't bring God into these meaningless conversation in which you don't state you opinion clearly, not just in parables:
ARE YOU FOR OR AGAINST ABORTION, JUST ANSWER IT PERIOD!
I'm against abortion and if you don't like it, shove it.
@chinchonchinchon That's the point, Unlike you I believe these matters are far more complex and nuanced than can fit in a short comment.
The best "oversimplification" I can try to give, would be to say that to destroy sperm or an unfertilized egg is not different from a blastocyst. The termination of a full term pregnancy such as "partial birth" could be on par with murder in some cases. This is not a black and white issue - I believe there are many shades of grey that deserve consideration.
No, no no, I do believe also like you that in the case of a medical emergency, say the mother is in danger whe could perform an abortion yet I've read some stories in which the mother decides not to perform an abortion the baby os born, and the mother survives and the boy becomes grows to be a beautiful human being.
I'm no fanatic I think I understand what you mean.
This cracks me up every single time. HA! The conservatives/republicans do not care about the lives of the "unborn" They only want them born to pay off thier debt. Sorry not falling for it. God is imaginary, and so are those who follow
O'Donnell is again showing his true colors as a bitter, screaming, lunatic who claims to be open-minded but really full of bile and rage like so many of his "liberal, progressive, open-minded" cohorts.
Larry has the contagious virus called the "Olbermann Syndrome." This will cause Larry to fall into the "Chris Matthews phase." and he will believe that he is his own guest, in other words, he asks and answers every question.The next phase is the Bill Maher phase and he will find himself starting to spend time in Hugh Hefner's grotto and believing the women when they tell him "you were great."
Lawrence O'Donnell is a complete idiot! He doesn't understand that the pope is only infallible in matters of faith and morals. The death penalty is not a matter of faith and morals. Abortion is.
I would be totally in favor of a fair trial for those whores who decide to kill their baby. Let us hear their justification. If a jury finds that it was warranted, then I would be ok with it.
Give me a break. Catholicism preaches that a foetus, from the moment of conception, is draped in sin. That foetus is then commanded to be well again, or face eternal damnation.
These people are obsessed with abortion, why did they not protest against Bush, who was staunchly pro death penalty, when the Catholic church is so anti-death penalty? It's pure hypocrisy.
Abortion is a matter of faith and morals, which means that there is no room for differing opinions. Abortion is immoral. There is no grey area. The death penalty is not a matter of faith and morals. Catholics can have differing opinions on it. Get your facts straight on what the Church teaches before you type.
Sigh... It's so sad that people like yourself exist. So blinded by your religion, it's unbelievable.
The death penalty is a matter of morality and ethics, and thus, is wrong. Faith and religion have absolutely NOTHING to do with it.
How dare you attempt to lecture me about 'facts' when you've shown an absolute contempt for them, when you opt to believe in something that possesses none.
If you were not religious, you wouldn't care about abortion. Just think for yourself for Christ's sake!
I don't agree with original sin, either. But you seem grossly simplify the theological underpinnings of such a doctrine. Simply put, original sin does not mean that an unborn child is just as guilty as a murderer. It's not hypocrisy. You're conflating two different moral issues. Liberal-minded people like yourself and O'Donnell are terrible with moral distinctions.
@Debaser11 Well, you'll be delighted to know that I'm not a liberal, I'm a socialist. You may not be so delighted to hear that it's people of a certain mindset, such as yourself, that seem to struggle with morality. If it wasn't for the Pope, and his tyrant of idiotic; mindless followers and their respective canons, there would be no need for the question, and therefore this video, to exist.
The hypocrisy is, once again, on your side of the fence.
So socialists aren't liberal-minded? I think you need to think that one out a bit.
"If it wasn't for the Pope, and his tyrant of idiotic; mindless followers and their respective canons,"
I think you're being obtuse here. Some religious followers are mindless. But many are not. And I'd wager dollars to donuts many of the Catholics that attend a prestigious school like ND are some of the brightest minds this country has to say nothing of the Catholic staff.
"That would depend on what you mean when you say 'liberal-minded'."
Nevermind. This is going to turn into a semantics game. You're a socialist, not a liberal. Noted.
"There's nothing to reply to in the second part of your comment."
If you're going to be claim "my side" is being hypocritical you need to at least explain why. I told you why I thought that statement was inaccurrate. If you can't/won't reply, I'll just assume we agree that the "hypocrisy" charge was baseless.
I'm more than aware of the way these things can go, but I'm not a liberal, I'm a socialist and those two things aren't the same. Liberal minded? Ok, perhaps, but as long as you say it with the correct implication.
Regarding your other point, I thought I had done so in my original comment that your first replied to? I'm in agreement with you, regarding the difference between an abortion and an execution of a guilty man. However, the Catholic canon doesn't draw that distinction, nor does the Pope.
"I'm a socialist and those two things aren't the same."
I understand.
"Liberal minded? Ok, perhaps, but as long as you say it with the correct implication."
There you go. I think the implication was fair b/c I understand what socialists believe (generally). Of course, there are different varieties of socialism. This is all tangental anyways.
"However, the Catholic canon doesn't draw that distinction, nor does the Pope."
Again, I think you've misinterpreted the ramifications of Original Sin. What makes you so sure the Pope doesn't distinguish between these obvious differences that any reasonable person should see? I don't like the Pope, myself. But he's not a moron. If Original Sin had the same implications of guilt than anyone's murder could be justified. Clearly Catholics don't buy into that. If the church is in fact anti-death penalty (I'll concede this is probably the case),
I still think it's very fair to call these protestors hypocrites. Executing criminals and killing unborn life are not the same thing. So it's natural that one issue would take priority over the other. Is it wrong for them to feel more passionately about a fetus than convicted murderer who's more than likely getting what he deserves? Many of these same Catholics may still not agree with the death penalty. But it's possible that the death penalty doesn't fire them up in the same manner...
that abortion does. They're only human. You pick your battles. I could just as easily claim that some pacifists/anti-war protestors who protested Iraq (under Bush) and not Bosnia (under Clinton) are hypocrites using your same line of reasoning. But I think that would be silly b/c they clearly aren't the same. This charge also wouldn't take away from the fact that the anti-Iraq war protestors may have had a legitmate point.
You can go to hell for a lot of things according to some Christians. That doesn't mean that all of those actions are the same morally or that these Christians themselves think they are the same morally. I don't understand the confusion.
@Debaser11 How could they not be? I don't understand how you're able to rank sin. An action is either sinful, and therefore the man that commits it is bound for hell, or it is not sinful and they're not bound for hell. It's not like you go deeper into hell, the worse your sin is.
"I don't understand how you're able to rank sin."
Uh, we rank sin all the time. Would you honestly say that stealing is as bad as killing another person? Or that an armed robbery that leads to an unplanned murder is as bad as premeditated murder?
"It's not like you go deeper into hell, the worse your sin is."
I submit you that most people's understanding of hell has little to do with biblical canon. The Catholic Church itself ranks sin.
There are mortal sins and venial sins according to the church. I'm not a Catholic but I think there is sound reasoning behind them doing so and idiots like O'Donnell should honor that. But its interesting to see there are so many people that seem to think shopping lifting and child abuse are the same because they are "sins." Interesting times.
@Debaser11 Sorry, I was logged into my other account, still me!
I personally find it difficult to rank such horrific acts, such as you mentioned, full stop. But that's totally irrelevant. Asking me whether I think 'this' is as bad as 'that' is totally beside the point as I'm not religious, and have zero respect for the institution of religion. Even if I could say that this kind of murder is worse than that kind of murder (which I suppose to some degree, I can), it would not matter an ounce.
"Asking me whether I think 'this' is as bad as 'that' is totally beside the point as I'm not religious,"
No it's not. Morality is anterior to religion. I can't believe you're dense enough to imply otherwise. Are you claiming to not have any morality b/c you're not religious?
"and have zero respect for the institution of religion."
Your opinion about religion is irrelevant to the discussion in the video which you commented on.
@Debaser11 I'm seriously losing the will to live here. Of course I'm not saying that you cannot be moral if you're not religious. I'm saying that religion believes that to be the case (which it does), and it's one of the many reasons that I despise it so much. Also, my opinion about religion is not irrelevant, given that the mere fact I hold it means that you cannot be correct in your assumption.
I can't believe you haven't got this yet... Such a waste of time.
"Also, my opinion about religion is not irrelevant, given that the mere fact I hold it means that you cannot be correct in your assumption."
Your comment was about the Catholic Church's hypocrisy. That's what I originally addressed. I fail to see how your worldview is relevant when trying to determine whether or not your specific claim about the Catholic Church has any merit.
"I can't believe you haven't got this yet... Such a waste of time."
Hmmm....
"Now, the 'concession' does not prove anything other than the fact my original point was correct."
Your point was not correct. The death penalty and abortion are not the same thing morally. You admitted this much already. So your hypocrisy statement is inaccurrate.
"I'm an atheist, I'm somebody that despises religion, I do believe that you can be moral in the absence of religion, religion does not believe that you can be moral without it."
Then why did you write that "Asking me whether I think 'this' is as bad as 'that' is totally beside the point as I'm not religious"? If you claim we can be moral without religion (as do I), then the moral questions I posed to you before about ranking sin are relevant.
More importantly, they are important as far as the Catholic Church is concerned. You can't even respect that? You want religious people to respect your beliefs but you won't even examine the moral distinction between executing a criminal and killing an unborn child? And religion does not state that it is impossible to be moral without being a believer. Don't make such wild generalizations.
@ubernaffa regardless as to what you are, it is easy to comprehend, as a human being, that an unborn and/or partially-born/newborn (doesn't matter) child couldn't have possibly commited any crimes against humanity, thus making it inncocent in the eyes of the world, and that taking the life of one who has taken the life of many or even just more than that of his own, actually SAVES more lives.
@RushRobinson2000 We're not talking about partially born, or newborn children here. We're talking about fertilised embryos. The argument as to whether such an entity is classed as a human being is another debate, for another time. As for whether such an entity has committed 'crimes against humanity', any humanist would be in absolute agreement with you. Of course they have not. That is not, however, the view of Christianity. Original sin, Adam and Eve, you know the rest.
@mueygringo um...iguess you didnt get the memo, fucktard. there is no god. and if their was, god would still be the faggot bitch pussy cunt cocksucker boy raper sissy queer retard that he is, as described in the piece of shit book i wipe my ass with, the bible. fuck you, and fuck jesus christ too. invisible friends are for the children, shithead. haha!
@louiscaponecchia I wiill just go back to the original comment concernng you. Must be close to nap time? Then milk and sliced banana. Then play time for you. Tell your friends at the playground what you said here. They will be impressed! Hush little baby...........
Pope John Paul II wrote that execution is only appropriate "in cases of absolute necessity, in other words, when it would not be possible otherwise to defend society. Today, however, as a result of steady immprovement in the organization of the penal system, such cases are very rare, if not practically nonexistent." Yes he opposed to the death penalty. But, comparing the death penalty with abortion is totally ridiculous.
It's not ridiculous. It's hypocrisy of the highest kind to criticise one president that is pro abortion, sorry, not pro abortion, but seldom anti abortion. It's hypocritical to be critical of him, but not of one that's exceptionally pro death penalty. All O'Donnell did was point out the hypocrisy and inconsistency with holding such a biased opinion.
It all boils back down to this worrying obsession, so many Catholics have, with abortion.
Pat Buchanan considers Lawrence O'Donnell a friend and treats him as a respected colleague, and actually kept him from losing his job when O'Donnell continuously screamed at John O'Neill and called him a liar approximately 47 times when O'Neill was a guest on Buchanan's show in 2004. Pat demanded--and received--a vow from O'Donnell never to behave in such a way again on his show. Pat's laughter was certainly a nervous reaction, and certainly a polite alternative to stooping to O'Donnell's level.
Odonnel is such a dumb stick.
Biggerbyte 2 months ago
Lawrence O'Donnell is great, we need more people like him.
arcticapple 3 months ago
Lawrence O'Donnell is seriously the Liberal version of Bill O'Reilly.
mknippy1 3 months ago
O'Donnell is 100% wrong in his argument.The Catholic Church does not say the death penalty is an intrinsic evil.It sates the death penalty should be used in limited cases. It clearly states that abortion is an intrinsic evil. Euthanasia is an intrinsic evil. Embryonic stem cell use is an intrinsic evil. Cloning is an intrinsic evil. Abortion and the death penalty can not be compared. One is always 100% innocent always.
xukeith33 3 months ago
Comment removed
durstwurst 3 months ago
I hate when someone says "and you know it." Is Laurence O Donnell telepathic?
scottvska 4 months ago
buchanan is an idiot.
gggreggg 4 months ago
lawrence odonnell is an idiot.
lareneg72 5 months ago
@lareneg72 O'Donnell won this argument hands down, so what does this make Buchanan?
hatemorethanyou999 5 months ago
@hatemorethanyou999 o'donnell didn't win this arguement. he is an idiot if he can't tell the difference between an innocent baby and a convicted murderer
lareneg72 5 months ago
@lareneg72 50 million people die every year from starvation--200 for every abortion, and that figure is going up exponentially.
hatemorethanyou999 5 months ago
@hatemorethanyou999 are you saying that the death penalty for a convicted murder is not ok, but killing an innocent baby is? answer the question.
there are 42million abortions performed every year. that is 42 million babies murdered.
lareneg72 5 months ago
@lareneg72 I'm saying that like it or not abortion is a form of birth control that has been practiced throughout recorded human history and nothing is going to change this. So we have two choices: #1. make birth control like the morning after pill legal and available so we minimize safe, legal abortions. or #2. We have yet another reason to put people in jail. I'm also saying (fact) for every one abortion there are at least 25 people who die of starvation. If lives are what you want to save . .
hatemorethanyou999 5 months ago
@hatemorethanyou999 Don't even fret this fool. Clearly some people cannot see that pointing out the hypocrisy of somebody's opinion doesn't mean that you are on the side of their opponent. lareneg72 had to resort to asking YOU whether YOU believe that abortion is the same as putting a murderer to death, demonstrating ignorance, stupidity and logical fallacy beautiful, and simultaneously. Don't fret these people. ;)
ubernaffa 4 months ago
@hatemorethanyou999 abortions are identified as taking innocent life. very simply snuffing out any chance for life.
xukeith33 3 months ago
Dang! LAWRENCE IS AN IDIOT!!! He is angry from wife problems. Catholic Church allows or permits death penalty only if extreme cases such as risk of prisoner escaping to kill again. If not, locked them up forever. SIMPLE!
6630mcdo 5 months ago
@6630mcdo No it doesn't. Do you just make up facts? I will only reply to you if you can show me where in CURRENT canon law where it says such a thing.
StrangeIsMyWorld 3 months ago
@StrangeIsMyWorld Unless you are a cannon lawyer, what good does it do? I know Catholicism very well and only in extreme cases, i.e., where a prisoner can escape and murders again.
6630mcdo 3 months ago
@6630mcdo The official stance of the Roman Catholic Church since the "Declaration of the Holy See to the first world congress on the death penalty "Issued Strasbourg, 21 June 2001. States "The universal abolition of the death penalty would be a courageous reaffirmation of the belief that humankind can be successful in dealing with criminality and of our refusal to succumb to despair." I asked you to produce the law because I know there is no such statute.
StrangeIsMyWorld 3 months ago
I miss Pat Buchannan on Hardball. You can tell he doesnt believe half the shit that comes out of his own mouth. I say give these two a show together.
AxekickerDotCom 5 months ago
Lord...O'Donnell is so awful. Buchannan isn't too savvy either for falling for his tactics. Here's what his response should have been - "LO: Why did they allow Bush to come to the campus? PB: I don't know, that's not what we're talking about."
Instead PB made himself look like a fool by getting all emotional.
dustinseth1 6 months ago
@dustinseth1 LMAO, thats your argument, thats not what were talking about, I beg to differ, were talking about why one president would be allowed and the other wouldnt,,,, Obama didn't make the abortion law, who cares what his opinion is, bush has real blood on his hands,
thebestanswerever 6 months ago
@thebestanswerever whoa whoa, let's not get into a bush v obama thing. I am a fan of neither man, so please don't' assume any position other than that which I explicitly state. I was only critiquing their argumentative tactics. The interview begins with the host asking why some people would want to yell at him for being in favor of Obama going to notre dame, so I evaluated the arguments on those grounds, upon which LO's mention of bush is a diversion and not a proper counter-argument.
dustinseth1 6 months ago
@thebestanswerever That said, there may have been more to this than what is show, which vindicates LO's use of a seeming diversion. I am only going on this video. If you want my opinion on the issue I don't give a shit where any president goes, as long as he doesn't violate anyone's property rights.
dustinseth1 6 months ago
If Lawrence O'Donnell ever gets a clue his head will pop.
TheAbbott88 7 months ago
Can Buchanan die already....
HUMANSAREBENEATHME 7 months ago 2
Lawrence is and ass.
wizwhitney 8 months ago
@ktaitt
Sticks and stones may break my bones but NAMES will NEVER hurt me. White and Catholic TRUE! I have most likely done for for my black friends than you've never done for anyone, including your family members.
91dodgespiritrt 8 months ago
I hate Pat with all my heart, but he won this round.
Arkayem 8 months ago
@Arkayem since you hate Pat, I will ask you why you say he won this round. O'Donnell makes just one statement, that the Church and Pope oppose the death penalty no less than they oppose abortion. Pat can not get around that fact so he just argues the merits of HIS view on 2 issues as a Catholic, but fails to rebut that the Pope does not distinguish between 2 "evils" (death penalty and abortion).
ih8tbush 6 months ago
lawrence o donnell is rite AGAIN GO O DONNELLLLLLLLLLL
lilcezar9 8 months ago
If you must know condoms doesn't work all the time especially if you have my kinda size to fit them! those things ripped easily and the birth control too doesn't always work. I have gotten my wife pregnant several times on birth control alone so this does goes on alot more than stupid stats shows. In the last fifty years the amount of abortions is ten times that number and that's a fact. Every family has secrets and abortions is one of them. Every girl knows someone who done it.
kingofsprints 8 months ago
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kingofsprints 8 months ago
O'donnell saw an opening for a upper cut and nailed that one sided, one track mind old fart, who only believes that abortion is the highest crime. Can you imagine if there were no abortions our population would be hitting a billion by now and I on the other hand would technically fathered at least 35 kids by now, birth control keeps my wife and I at two beautiful children. Look family planning is essential these days and women should be given the choice to choose especially in rape cases etc.
kingofsprints 8 months ago
@kingofsprints Our population would not be hitting a billion. We abort about a million babies per year, which is 30 more million people since 1980. That would bring our population to 338 million.
You ever heard of a condom? Maybe a birth control pill. That's birth control. Women should choose whether or not they want to have babies, not whether or not they have a right to kill a baby. And how many abortions are performed because of rape? Less than 1%.
Drahthaar422 8 months ago
@Drahthaar422 Look genius that number is totally wrong! I stand by closing in on a billion mark, because there are many more people doing abortions that the numbers shows, even Conservatives and Catholics alike. Just go to your community clinic and you'll see christians,muslims and suburban whites girls lining up discretely. A fetus is not a full term pregnancy and that's where Catholics and Conversatives like you lost y'all stupid minds. Women should be allowed to chose for themselves.
kingofsprints 8 months ago
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kingofsprints 8 months ago
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kingofsprints 8 months ago
Pat was wrong again: there are convicts who go to prison for decades or to deathrow, who increasingly of late it has been shown by forensic sciences that they were innocent. Laurence is right to equate Pat's statement on Bush and the death penalty, with his own on Obama and abortion.
screaminone 9 months ago
This clip is a damn classic.
rannedwards 9 months ago
O'Donnell Rocks!
rannedwards 9 months ago
this lib needs his ass kicked..every day of his life.
steelersX01 9 months ago
I'm a Catholic and guess what O'Donnell is beyond right. How dare any man who says he belives in the church and is part of the chruch allow a man who allowed the death penalty, something elicity banned in the bible and against the papal. Now answer this, how many times is abortion said in the bible? Abortion is something to talk about but no church or catholic school should ban a president who has never committed an abortion! yet allow a persident who allows torture and murder. Think about that.
TheDMVproduction 9 months ago 2
Lawrence O'Donnell needs to be quiet, but his point is clearly superior to Buchanan's and his facts are correct where Pat's aren't. I went to Catholic school for 5 years and I can tell you for a fact that they are against the death penalty.
halvor311 11 months ago
O'Donnell is a schreeching bastard. A more rude idiot has never trod the earth.
TheSkeetergirl 11 months ago
2 points:
Not every person that has been put to death is guilty
Not every Catholic is against abortion
Sweetannie379 11 months ago 2
OOOOHHHHH......."How do u like those apples?!"
pat burnt this liberal idiot who kept interrupting him like that.....i guess that's how most liberals talk these days......
aznkent29 11 months ago
Buchanan is a detestable, Hitler sympathisng fascist and a bitter old cunt that should be put down for the good of humanity.
strepsil08 11 months ago
LOL. O'Donnell is so insane. His MO is to interrupt ppl & to repeat the same phrases over & over again, with elevating amplitude & crazy look in his eyes. He's such a useless douche.
Sage80 1 year ago
@Sage80 I think you might have O'Donnell and Buchanan mixed up, Sage.
BBQasaurus 1 year ago
Haha Love when these 2 go at it ,lol Agree w/ O'Donnell.
ArtetlaMusique87 1 year ago
Pat, You missed the part of "Judge Not "
THE CATHOLIC CHURCH ( my church ) "IS" VERY OPPOSED TO THE DEATH PENALTY. O'Donnell IS right.
edsweb7 1 year ago
THE CATHOLIC CHURCH ( my church ) "IS" VERY OPPOSED TO THE DEATH PENALTY. O'Donnell IS right.
edsweb7 1 year ago
Having Obama speak at commencement (specifically) at ND is like having David Duke speak at the commencement at Brandeis university.
gombis666 1 year ago
What a shining example of modern political discourse: Whoever shouts louder wins. @#$% this.
BillF1967 1 year ago
Here's what the Catholic Church teaches regarding the death penalty. CCC2266 Preserving the common good ... requires rendering the aggressor unable to inflict harm. For this reason the...Church has acknowledged as well-founded the right...of public authority to punish malefactors by means commensurate with the gravity of the crime, not excluding...the death penalty.
The loudmouth O'Donnel is wrong, as are the idiots in the comments below. Look it up in the Catechism.
1ndabag 1 year ago
@1ndabag That's what life prison sentences are for. An inmate in high security prison can't inflict harm on anyone but himself. Pope John Paul II clearly spoke out against death penalty.
Google: death penalty pope john paul statement
iamroma 1 year ago
Game, set and match to Mr. Patrick J. Buchanan!
91dodgespiritrt 1 year ago
@91dodgespiritrt Oh god, you are a fucking idiot. O'Donnell asks: Is the Catholic church as opposed to capital punishment as it is to abortion? The answer: YES. So buchanan, who thinks one is better than the other, is just as much an enemy to the Catholic church as OBAMA. GET IT? DUHHHRRRRRRRR.
God, conservatives are fucking hypocrites.
Shamborn 1 year ago
@91dodgespiritrt you declare this as a win for buchanan?
henrikstaaf 1 year ago
@91dodgespiritrt let me guess, you're white, christian and racist? did i get it right?
ktaitt 1 year ago
ODONNEL GOT FUCKING BITCH SLAPPED.
pat couldn't believe how stupid that dope was.
TheNewMusicNetwork 1 year ago
@TheNewMusicNetwork Oh god, you are a fucking idiot. O'Donnell asks: Is the Catholic church as opposed to capital punishment as it is to abortion? The answer: YES. So buchanan, who thinks one is better than the other, is just as much an enemy to the Catholic church as OBAMA. GET IT? DUHHHRRRRRRRR.
God, conservatives are fucking hypocrites.
Shamborn 1 year ago
awwwww is widdle mikey getting off on arguing about NOTHING with other bozos on teh internets?
How much is he gonna be wanting back all the time he squandered when his idle calls him up in an absolute panic saying omg omg how did this freak get all this intel on me, he's even got court documents on what really went down with face. OMG OMG, WHO IS HE?
snackmybitchup 1 year ago
@snackmybitchup i think u meant "idol" HAHAHA. Yes, we're dealing with a GENIUS here!
You see, "idle" is someone who sits at a computer spending all their time googling handles, making fake profiles and writing gobbledy-gook messages that he THINKS is scaring people. Yes, anyone who can make a youtube profile is SCARY!!! HAHAHA. Say hi to Suckey!
Shamborn 1 year ago
@Shamborn you had your chance to get everything spelled out all right at Rubilad, BOZO
Face it the art stars are crumbling from within as you all are all in a huge circular jerk off firing squad as the Rat Amongst You takes potshots. Makes my jab easier to just stand by the side and laugh at akll you attention whores turn yourself into "victims" . . . stay on guard tho, I'm not of a mind to be so charitable next time towards you or your more litigious associates.
snackmybitchup 11 months ago
O'donnell shorts his brain out with his adrenaline rushes. I don't even think he realizes how badly he conducts himself.
DCUPtoejuice 1 year ago
I'd be willing to abolish the death penalty if we could also abolish abortion. We kill murderers to make the families of the victims feel better. We kill unborn babies to make life easier for the mother, and sometimes the father. We really need conservatives to start adopting children who were deemed "inconvenient". If women realize that their child will go to a loving family, they'll decide not to kill it. Doesn't that make sense?
wiz9496 1 year ago
@wiz9496 adoption exists today..there is a shortage of children eligible for adoption thus some US parents have to go overseas to adopt..abortion will always be the preferred option by some since it only takes a few hours to resolve the "problem".
tillman40 1 year ago
O'Donnell.....What a know it all.....If he knows so fucking much, why not run for office ??? GO AND FIX WASHINGTON YOU IDIOT.....Pat slapped him down big time !!!!!
bobbyozb 1 year ago
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@bobbyozb Oh god, you are a fucking idiot. O'Donnell asks: Is the Catholic church as opposed to capital punishment as it is to abortion? The answer: YES. So buchanan, who thinks one is better than the other, is just as much an enemy to the Catholic church as OBAMA. GET IT? DUHHHRRRRRRRR.
God, conservatives are fucking hypocrites.
Shamborn 1 year ago
Buchannan got pwned in this and exposed as a fraud. Per the Catholic theology A) All humans are born in original sin (not born innocent). B) The Catholic Church via the Pope's own statements now condemnsabortion and the death penalty and Pat's assertion that "not evevry Catholic is opposed to the death penalty" is meaningless because they have no say in Catholic theology. They must follow the Pope's assertions.
SupernautG 1 year ago
@SupernautG I would also add the last two Popes declared that the Iraqi was was an unjustified war according to Catholic theology and they still had Bush who started the war at the Catholic university.
SupernautG 1 year ago
buchannan has not forgotten, but refuses to acknowledge that his little party came out and warned that to vote for a democratic presidential would result in a puppet controlled by a leader in a fictional country. That candidate....?
MrEatonbeaver 1 year ago
Bush went for death penalty because he was a good ( for nothing ) man. Bush went for death penalty because he was a good Christian - sure !
deickos 1 year ago
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deickos 1 year ago
even the bible is against death penalty well the second testament is bot anyway "he who is without sin cast the first stone" just to throw it in there ^^
anskabvb 1 year ago
What's so shameful about all this is O'Donnell isn't even aware of how pathetic he is. Not just in this particular issue, but in general.
Demosthenes0725 1 year ago
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Don't fuck with the LAWrence !
TheDrunkenHer0 1 year ago
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Don't fuck with the LAWrence !
TheDrunkenHer0 1 year ago
O'Donnel seems t o believe his opinions are the same for all Catholics. Nonsesne is what he speaks.
mueygringo 1 year ago
@mueygringo Right...i guess you are either stupid or retarded, or deaf, as you did not hear o'donnell say numerous times that the anti-death penalty and anti-iraq war stance were those of the pope, not him. To say obama hasnt the right to speak at a university (that recieves federal money, btw) because he thinks citizens should have the right to choose, as compared to bush who launched an illegal war on a country and personally signed off on numerous executions against the wishes of the pope.
louiscaponecchia 1 year ago
@louiscaponecchia In regard to the first statement, you have me confused with your Momma.
O'Donnel comes right out that he had a Catholic upbringing . He states that the Catholics would not be divided Catholics Bishops and Priests were opposed ND People were Arrested for exercising free speech. That Obama gestapo doesn't respect any rights. Remember Notre dame is a private institution and a Catholic University, Not a government entity. Nearly 65.000 Catholics petitioned against this.
mueygringo 1 year ago
@mueygringo right..and i think you are missing the point..catholics are stupid, and 65,000 right wingers hardly represent the millions of catholics in america. They get spiritual advice from pedophiles. What o'donnell said, as you reiterated, he had a "catholic upbringing". So did Bill Maher and George Carlin, you fuckin dickhole.
Notre Dame still recieves federal money, as do several colleges. It doesnt have to be a government entity"...whatever that is. And what, pray tell, are Obama Gestapo?
louiscaponecchia 1 year ago
Nothing like a ginned-up hysteria to get the crazies to the polls. How else would Republicans get their low-information base riled up? If it wasn't wedge issues, they might actually start thinking. God forbid they wonder why they're slipping further and further behind in their lives, and why this nation cannot deal with real-world issues.
Azzenstudent 1 year ago
The truth is that you don't always know if someone who is on death row is really guilty or not. So "incase" that person is innocent, you should NOT be in favor of the death penalty. And it is also equally as hard to make the distinction in war. Because most people do not know if their gov. is really fighting in wars do to what they consider "just cause". So if you are against abortion, you should be equally against the death penalty or wars for the sake of killing innocent people.
newave123456 1 year ago
Pats a total idiot. DNA tests have shown that many innocent people have been convicted of crimes they didn't do so why is he saying everyone who was executed was guilty of murder. The Governor of Illinois stopped executions a few years back cause he understood innocent people get convicted.
tom6612 1 year ago
I didn't KNOW I like Lawrence O'Donnell so much!!
hockibabe 1 year ago
The subject is about the Catholic Church's opinion of Obama's views not your views on religion. I'm an atheist. But I can at least stay on topic.
"(which I suppose to some degree, I can),"
Well, there ya go. This concession just proves my point.
"it would not matter an ounce."
What? So you can rank them but then you claim that this doesn't matter? Pure cognitive dissonance on your part, buddy. The fact that you can rank them implies that differences between various sins does matter.
Debaser11 1 year ago
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"you've crystallised my point better than I could have hoped."
Uh, right...In your illogical mind, any statement you write that seems like a punchline suffices. Hardly impressive.
Debaser11 1 year ago
@Debaser11 Oh my goodness... Now, the 'concession' does not prove anything other than the fact my original point was correct. You seem to have disagreed with a point I made that you agreed with.
I'm an atheist, I'm somebody that despises religion, I do believe that you can be moral in the absence of religion, religion does not believe that you can be moral without it.
I'm seriously at a loss for words, your last point ratified mine again, and you can't see it! Unbelievable...
ubernaffa 1 year ago
I also want to add that Lawerence O'Donnell is completely distorting matters. Just b/c the church is against the death penalty and abortion does not mean that the church finds them to be morally the same. I'm against premeditated and second degree murder. That doesn't mean I think they are morally the same. O'Donnell either needs to choose his words more carefully or stop making disingenuous arguments.
Debaser11 1 year ago
O'Donnell is a rabble-rouser. Watching Buchanan slap O'Donnell around is like watching Sonny Liston vs Screetch from saved by the bell.
NLR884evr 1 year ago
Lawrence O'Donnell pointed out the hypocrisy of the right's argument and it isn't pretty. Pat Buchanan is one of the BIGGEST bigoted, racist a-ssholes in America.
AhTrini4U 1 year ago
The death penalty is correct, abortion is murder, period.
chinchonchinchon 1 year ago
@chinchonchinchon Is it also wrong to swat a fly or kill a spider? Is that murder? I don't think so, but I doubt you have even a fraction of the understanding to equate or even begin to understand the ignorant dogma you propagate as the drone that you are.
InternalCompass 1 year ago
@InternalCompass
So the death penalty is incorrect, and abortion is a good action?
Shit! I've corrected my point of view thanks to you pal!
chinchonchinchon 1 year ago
@chinchonchinchon Wow, you're the new crowned King of false dichotomies, congratulations Sir!
I'll try to type slowly for you as I explain that monumental issues of life or death should not be decided by the "knee jerk" reactions of the most ignorant, uneducated and ill informed segments of our population.
The concept of justice has a long and proud history if you care to begin educating yourself. Perhaps you should watch the series by the Harvard professor Michael Sandel here on youtube.
InternalCompass 1 year ago
@InternalCompass
I don't have a clue what you are talking about. ARE YOU SAYING THAT THE FETUS IS NOT A LIVING HUMAN BEING OR WHAT?¿?¿?¿?¿?¿?¿?
chinchonchinchon 1 year ago
@chinchonchinchon I KNOW you don't have a clue, that's the point BillyBob.
Google "Blastocyst" and tell me if there is any difference in the neo cortex of the blastocyst and a late term pregnancy... oh? wait? there is no neo cortex in a blastocyst? Well BillyBob, that may be step one in a long journey for you before you have anything relevant to say on the issue.
InternalCompass 1 year ago
@InternalCompass
Yes, you are really smart, yeah, right!
So, you're playing God? Go ahead, you are not alone in that game.
chinchonchinchon 1 year ago
@chinchonchinchon Ummm... no, I just don't find honor, virtue or integrity within arrogant ignorance. What God wants you to glorify him by being an ignorant moron?
InternalCompass 1 year ago
@InternalCompass
Oh! stop being so melodramatic and don't bring God into these meaningless conversation in which you don't state you opinion clearly, not just in parables:
ARE YOU FOR OR AGAINST ABORTION, JUST ANSWER IT PERIOD!
I'm against abortion and if you don't like it, shove it.
chinchonchinchon 1 year ago
@chinchonchinchon That's the point, Unlike you I believe these matters are far more complex and nuanced than can fit in a short comment.
The best "oversimplification" I can try to give, would be to say that to destroy sperm or an unfertilized egg is not different from a blastocyst. The termination of a full term pregnancy such as "partial birth" could be on par with murder in some cases. This is not a black and white issue - I believe there are many shades of grey that deserve consideration.
InternalCompass 1 year ago
@InternalCompass
No, no no, I do believe also like you that in the case of a medical emergency, say the mother is in danger whe could perform an abortion yet I've read some stories in which the mother decides not to perform an abortion the baby os born, and the mother survives and the boy becomes grows to be a beautiful human being.
I'm no fanatic I think I understand what you mean.
chinchonchinchon 1 year ago
This cracks me up every single time. HA! The conservatives/republicans do not care about the lives of the "unborn" They only want them born to pay off thier debt. Sorry not falling for it. God is imaginary, and so are those who follow
splicedenergy 1 year ago
O'Donnell is again showing his true colors as a bitter, screaming, lunatic who claims to be open-minded but really full of bile and rage like so many of his "liberal, progressive, open-minded" cohorts.
bd1976 1 year ago
You are so fuckin' stupid.
mraindog81 1 year ago
Buchanan's a rickety old douche. Go O'Donnell!
Scott89119 1 year ago
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Larry has the contagious virus called the "Olbermann Syndrome." This will cause Larry to fall into the "Chris Matthews phase." and he will believe that he is his own guest, in other words, he asks and answers every question.The next phase is the Bill Maher phase and he will find himself starting to spend time in Hugh Hefner's grotto and believing the women when they tell him "you were great."
youcancallmeroy1 1 year ago
Lawrence O'Donnell is a complete idiot! He doesn't understand that the pope is only infallible in matters of faith and morals. The death penalty is not a matter of faith and morals. Abortion is.
higgolini 1 year ago
@higgolini What matter does the death penalty involve if it doesn't involve morals?
findlayr 1 year ago
lawrence o'donnell is a liberal wing nut..hes pathetic
parkerlane13 1 year ago
I would be totally in favor of a fair trial for those whores who decide to kill their baby. Let us hear their justification. If a jury finds that it was warranted, then I would be ok with it.
msm318 2 years ago
There is a difference between taking the life of an innocent person and a guilty person. There is really no moral dilemma here.
msm318 2 years ago
Give me a break. Catholicism preaches that a foetus, from the moment of conception, is draped in sin. That foetus is then commanded to be well again, or face eternal damnation.
These people are obsessed with abortion, why did they not protest against Bush, who was staunchly pro death penalty, when the Catholic church is so anti-death penalty? It's pure hypocrisy.
ubernaffa 1 year ago 8
Abortion is a matter of faith and morals, which means that there is no room for differing opinions. Abortion is immoral. There is no grey area. The death penalty is not a matter of faith and morals. Catholics can have differing opinions on it. Get your facts straight on what the Church teaches before you type.
higgolini 1 year ago
Sigh... It's so sad that people like yourself exist. So blinded by your religion, it's unbelievable.
The death penalty is a matter of morality and ethics, and thus, is wrong. Faith and religion have absolutely NOTHING to do with it.
How dare you attempt to lecture me about 'facts' when you've shown an absolute contempt for them, when you opt to believe in something that possesses none.
If you were not religious, you wouldn't care about abortion. Just think for yourself for Christ's sake!
ubernaffa 1 year ago
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You are so fuckin' stupid.
mraindog81 1 year ago
@ubernaffa
I don't agree with original sin, either. But you seem grossly simplify the theological underpinnings of such a doctrine. Simply put, original sin does not mean that an unborn child is just as guilty as a murderer. It's not hypocrisy. You're conflating two different moral issues. Liberal-minded people like yourself and O'Donnell are terrible with moral distinctions.
Debaser11 1 year ago
@Debaser11 Well, you'll be delighted to know that I'm not a liberal, I'm a socialist. You may not be so delighted to hear that it's people of a certain mindset, such as yourself, that seem to struggle with morality. If it wasn't for the Pope, and his tyrant of idiotic; mindless followers and their respective canons, there would be no need for the question, and therefore this video, to exist.
The hypocrisy is, once again, on your side of the fence.
ubernaffa 1 year ago
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Debaser11 1 year ago
@ubernaffa
"I'm a socialist."
So socialists aren't liberal-minded? I think you need to think that one out a bit.
"If it wasn't for the Pope, and his tyrant of idiotic; mindless followers and their respective canons,"
I think you're being obtuse here. Some religious followers are mindless. But many are not. And I'd wager dollars to donuts many of the Catholics that attend a prestigious school like ND are some of the brightest minds this country has to say nothing of the Catholic staff.
Debaser11 1 year ago
As far as cannons go, I'll just refer you to people like St. Thomas Aquinas who was easily one of the greatest moral thinkers in history.
"The hypocrisy is, once again, on your side of the fence."
Aborting an innocent child is hardly the same thing as supporting the execution of a convicted murderer. Where's the hypocrisy?
Debaser11 1 year ago
@Debaser11 That would depend on what you mean when you say 'liberal-minded'. There's nothing to reply to in the second part of your comment.
ubernaffa 1 year ago
@ubernaffa
"That would depend on what you mean when you say 'liberal-minded'."
Nevermind. This is going to turn into a semantics game. You're a socialist, not a liberal. Noted.
"There's nothing to reply to in the second part of your comment."
If you're going to be claim "my side" is being hypocritical you need to at least explain why. I told you why I thought that statement was inaccurrate. If you can't/won't reply, I'll just assume we agree that the "hypocrisy" charge was baseless.
Debaser11 1 year ago
I'm more than aware of the way these things can go, but I'm not a liberal, I'm a socialist and those two things aren't the same. Liberal minded? Ok, perhaps, but as long as you say it with the correct implication.
Regarding your other point, I thought I had done so in my original comment that your first replied to? I'm in agreement with you, regarding the difference between an abortion and an execution of a guilty man. However, the Catholic canon doesn't draw that distinction, nor does the Pope.
ubernaffa 1 year ago
@ubernaffa
"I'm a socialist and those two things aren't the same."
I understand.
"Liberal minded? Ok, perhaps, but as long as you say it with the correct implication."
There you go. I think the implication was fair b/c I understand what socialists believe (generally). Of course, there are different varieties of socialism. This is all tangental anyways.
"However, the Catholic canon doesn't draw that distinction, nor does the Pope."
Clearly it does.
Debaser11 1 year ago
Again, I think you've misinterpreted the ramifications of Original Sin. What makes you so sure the Pope doesn't distinguish between these obvious differences that any reasonable person should see? I don't like the Pope, myself. But he's not a moron. If Original Sin had the same implications of guilt than anyone's murder could be justified. Clearly Catholics don't buy into that. If the church is in fact anti-death penalty (I'll concede this is probably the case),
Debaser11 1 year ago
I still think it's very fair to call these protestors hypocrites. Executing criminals and killing unborn life are not the same thing. So it's natural that one issue would take priority over the other. Is it wrong for them to feel more passionately about a fetus than convicted murderer who's more than likely getting what he deserves? Many of these same Catholics may still not agree with the death penalty. But it's possible that the death penalty doesn't fire them up in the same manner...
Debaser11 1 year ago
that abortion does. They're only human. You pick your battles. I could just as easily claim that some pacifists/anti-war protestors who protested Iraq (under Bush) and not Bosnia (under Clinton) are hypocrites using your same line of reasoning. But I think that would be silly b/c they clearly aren't the same. This charge also wouldn't take away from the fact that the anti-Iraq war protestors may have had a legitmate point.
Debaser11 1 year ago
The same applies to the Catholic Church on this abortion issue with Obama. I'm pro-choice, btw.
Debaser11 1 year ago
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**I still think it's very UNfair to call these protestors hypocrites.**
Debaser11 1 year ago
@Debaser11 What's clear about it? The only thing clear is that you go to hell for doing both things.
ubernaffa 1 year ago
@ubernaffa
You can go to hell for a lot of things according to some Christians. That doesn't mean that all of those actions are the same morally or that these Christians themselves think they are the same morally. I don't understand the confusion.
Debaser11 1 year ago
@Debaser11 How could they not be? I don't understand how you're able to rank sin. An action is either sinful, and therefore the man that commits it is bound for hell, or it is not sinful and they're not bound for hell. It's not like you go deeper into hell, the worse your sin is.
ArthurWeasleyWizard 1 year ago
@ArthurWeasleyWizard
"I don't understand how you're able to rank sin."
Uh, we rank sin all the time. Would you honestly say that stealing is as bad as killing another person? Or that an armed robbery that leads to an unplanned murder is as bad as premeditated murder?
"It's not like you go deeper into hell, the worse your sin is."
I submit you that most people's understanding of hell has little to do with biblical canon. The Catholic Church itself ranks sin.
Debaser11 1 year ago
There are mortal sins and venial sins according to the church. I'm not a Catholic but I think there is sound reasoning behind them doing so and idiots like O'Donnell should honor that. But its interesting to see there are so many people that seem to think shopping lifting and child abuse are the same because they are "sins." Interesting times.
Debaser11 1 year ago
@Debaser11 Sorry, I was logged into my other account, still me!
I personally find it difficult to rank such horrific acts, such as you mentioned, full stop. But that's totally irrelevant. Asking me whether I think 'this' is as bad as 'that' is totally beside the point as I'm not religious, and have zero respect for the institution of religion. Even if I could say that this kind of murder is worse than that kind of murder (which I suppose to some degree, I can), it would not matter an ounce.
ubernaffa 1 year ago
@ubernaffa
"Asking me whether I think 'this' is as bad as 'that' is totally beside the point as I'm not religious,"
No it's not. Morality is anterior to religion. I can't believe you're dense enough to imply otherwise. Are you claiming to not have any morality b/c you're not religious?
"and have zero respect for the institution of religion."
Your opinion about religion is irrelevant to the discussion in the video which you commented on.
Debaser11 1 year ago
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Debaser11 1 year ago
@Debaser11 I'm seriously losing the will to live here. Of course I'm not saying that you cannot be moral if you're not religious. I'm saying that religion believes that to be the case (which it does), and it's one of the many reasons that I despise it so much. Also, my opinion about religion is not irrelevant, given that the mere fact I hold it means that you cannot be correct in your assumption.
I can't believe you haven't got this yet... Such a waste of time.
ubernaffa 1 year ago
@ubernaffa
"Also, my opinion about religion is not irrelevant, given that the mere fact I hold it means that you cannot be correct in your assumption."
Your comment was about the Catholic Church's hypocrisy. That's what I originally addressed. I fail to see how your worldview is relevant when trying to determine whether or not your specific claim about the Catholic Church has any merit.
Debaser11 1 year ago
"I can't believe you haven't got this yet... Such a waste of time."
Hmmm....
"Now, the 'concession' does not prove anything other than the fact my original point was correct."
Your point was not correct. The death penalty and abortion are not the same thing morally. You admitted this much already. So your hypocrisy statement is inaccurrate.
Debaser11 1 year ago
"I'm an atheist, I'm somebody that despises religion, I do believe that you can be moral in the absence of religion, religion does not believe that you can be moral without it."
Then why did you write that "Asking me whether I think 'this' is as bad as 'that' is totally beside the point as I'm not religious"? If you claim we can be moral without religion (as do I), then the moral questions I posed to you before about ranking sin are relevant.
Debaser11 1 year ago
More importantly, they are important as far as the Catholic Church is concerned. You can't even respect that? You want religious people to respect your beliefs but you won't even examine the moral distinction between executing a criminal and killing an unborn child? And religion does not state that it is impossible to be moral without being a believer. Don't make such wild generalizations.
Debaser11 1 year ago
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"I'm seriously at a loss for words, your last point ratified mine again, and you can't see it!"
I didn't "ratify" anything. Please look up the word. I think you confuse yourself.
Debaser11 1 year ago
@Debaser11 I hate to say this, but you really have no idea what you're talking about.
ubernaffa 1 year ago
@ubernaffa
I'll let others be the judge of that. You're hardly impartial.
Debaser11 1 year ago
@Debaser11 I should also point out, that in this comment, you've crystallised my point better than I could have hoped.
ubernaffa 1 year ago
@ubernaffa There are many more abortions than there are death row inmates.
halvor311 1 year ago
@ubernaffa regardless as to what you are, it is easy to comprehend, as a human being, that an unborn and/or partially-born/newborn (doesn't matter) child couldn't have possibly commited any crimes against humanity, thus making it inncocent in the eyes of the world, and that taking the life of one who has taken the life of many or even just more than that of his own, actually SAVES more lives.
RushRobinson2000 1 year ago
@RushRobinson2000 We're not talking about partially born, or newborn children here. We're talking about fertilised embryos. The argument as to whether such an entity is classed as a human being is another debate, for another time. As for whether such an entity has committed 'crimes against humanity', any humanist would be in absolute agreement with you. Of course they have not. That is not, however, the view of Christianity. Original sin, Adam and Eve, you know the rest.
ArthurWeasleyWizard 1 year ago
@ArthurWeasleyWizard well, either way, we all know a fertilized egg is not a person.
louiscaponecchia 1 year ago
@louiscaponecchia Now you speak for GOD! You are a sad case your parents would be proud.
mueygringo 1 year ago
@mueygringo um...iguess you didnt get the memo, fucktard. there is no god. and if their was, god would still be the faggot bitch pussy cunt cocksucker boy raper sissy queer retard that he is, as described in the piece of shit book i wipe my ass with, the bible. fuck you, and fuck jesus christ too. invisible friends are for the children, shithead. haha!
louiscaponecchia 1 year ago
@louiscaponecchia I wiill just go back to the original comment concernng you. Must be close to nap time? Then milk and sliced banana. Then play time for you. Tell your friends at the playground what you said here. They will be impressed! Hush little baby...........
mueygringo 1 year ago
@ubernaffa and against the iraq war too.
louiscaponecchia 1 year ago
@ubernaffa there is a big difference between an innocent person and someone who committed murder.
DCUPtoejuice 1 year ago
@DCUPtoejuice I'm quite literally speechless at the fact you felt it necessary to point out something so trivial...
ubernaffa 1 year ago
@ubernaffa apparently trivial to you, but strangely so.
DCUPtoejuice 1 year ago
more abortions of mexicans and blacks would be fucking awesome
TheNewMusicNetwork 1 year ago
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@TheNewMusicNetwork racism is a mental disorder and you need help.
aberryhill0113 1 year ago
How do you lose an argument on which you stand for not killing another person?
Please. It isn't possible.
msm318 2 years ago
Pope John Paul II wrote that execution is only appropriate "in cases of absolute necessity, in other words, when it would not be possible otherwise to defend society. Today, however, as a result of steady immprovement in the organization of the penal system, such cases are very rare, if not practically nonexistent." Yes he opposed to the death penalty. But, comparing the death penalty with abortion is totally ridiculous.
arnolddao 2 years ago
It's not ridiculous. It's hypocrisy of the highest kind to criticise one president that is pro abortion, sorry, not pro abortion, but seldom anti abortion. It's hypocritical to be critical of him, but not of one that's exceptionally pro death penalty. All O'Donnell did was point out the hypocrisy and inconsistency with holding such a biased opinion.
It all boils back down to this worrying obsession, so many Catholics have, with abortion.
ubernaffa 1 year ago
Lawrence O'Donnell is a total freak!!! It's too bad his mom didn't have an abortion!
fmexico 2 years ago
Do you say that because he absolutely demolished Buchanan in this debate?
ubernaffa 1 year ago
you can tell that Pat lost this one by his own smiling and giggling towards the end.
elmtex 2 years ago
Pat Buchanan considers Lawrence O'Donnell a friend and treats him as a respected colleague, and actually kept him from losing his job when O'Donnell continuously screamed at John O'Neill and called him a liar approximately 47 times when O'Neill was a guest on Buchanan's show in 2004. Pat demanded--and received--a vow from O'Donnell never to behave in such a way again on his show. Pat's laughter was certainly a nervous reaction, and certainly a polite alternative to stooping to O'Donnell's level.
penrod59 2 years ago
Not all convicts are guilty of their charges, pat.
darkelfpictures 2 years ago
It's amazing how you can completely agree and disagree with some people about various issues.
papicops 2 years ago