I am glad Jesus is so concerned about the salvation of his chosen disciples as to use hyperbole, symbolism, and figurative language. He couldn't make it too easy on them, could he?
Being a fivepointer I doubt he would agree with the bible using hyperbole when it says there are "none" who do good. After all that would shatter his faith in TD. But as long as it agrees with his dogma, then it's OK to reinterpret and lessen the definitions of the text.
Great vid, prof. Fundie apologists play the same tricks when they try to sweep under the rug all of the passages that clearly support the doctrine of universal salvation, like "Just as all die in Adams sin, so too shall all be made alive in Christ." They like to "interpret" the word 'all' to mean "just Christians." Everyone else can burn forever... you know, because "His mercy endureth forever."
This is a phenomenon that I have recently started to notice in christian apologetic arguments. They will twist a story to the point that it is completely removed from the narrative form in order to try to force it to blend with other scripture.
Simply put, Amazing. Thank you for expressing so elegantly what I have felt my entire life about my Christian upbringing and the hypocritical morons who enforced it; slithering their way around plainly-stated "holey" text to concoct half-fictitious arguments in support of their own pretentious egos, contradictory beliefs, and self-serving ends.
And yes, my scorn comes from one of many very unambiguous and intimately applied biblical references: Proverbs 13:24. >:(
Why do Christians bother possessing scripture if they can't be arsed to read the ENTIRE thing? I think that for all the good its been, Christianity should have just relied on oral tradition rather than preserving its myths in written form. At least it would have been more difficult for sceptics to outright debunk the variating, individual narratives.
Here's my analogy of every apologetic endeavor: 1st they are presented with a square block (aka "facts") as compared to their box with a circular opening (aka there bible or faith-based belief)
Instead of admitting the obvious incongruence of the two things, then instead set about to smash / chop-up / refashion the square block until the resulting smaller parts can all fit through their box's circular opening afterwhich they triumphantly & arrogantly declare that the 2 fit together perfectly!
Christians have always distorted the Scriptures to meet the challenges they faced at a given time. To this day many believe that Mary Magdalene was a prostitute simply because an early pope confused her with another story about a prostitute told just prior to her (Mary's) first appearance.
@txvoltaire I am not so sure it was by mistake. There was actually a struggle between genders in the early church. In some sects women where allowed to preach, preform sacraments, etc. and in others they where forbidden to do so.
"tendentiously selective literalism"-you've stated something that I've been thinking about for some time. it seems to me that people who believe the bible will place metaphor in for what isn't convenient to what they believe, and then turn around and take other things literally. I like that phrase.
Fivepointbaptist is an inerrantist not a literalist - be believes it is without error and will go out of his way to make it fit that straight-jacket of inerrantism.
I completely agree about the religious tactic. But in most cases they just repeat what their preacher has taught them. They dont even bother reading the bible.
I don't think these apologetics are necessarily barking up the wrong tree. The Bible was written 2,000 years ago in a language none of us are familiar with. Moreover the first account (Mark) was written second hand 75 years after Jesus died. John came some 200 years after. Accepting that the Bible cannot be inerrant is a healthy step for many Christians who believe in a creator, but don't believe the dogmatic bullshit that people made up to go along with it and further their own ends.
@TheWeiWuWei though i agree with what you saying in most, the problem is that if the dogmatic bullshit is there, the only thing you need to get into heaven is believe in the reserction, if that is in a book of dogma you are on shaky ground there
@loudman12 The entire book is rife with falsehoods and nonsense that doesn't deserve to be believed in. I was just saying that uncovering the one is a healthy step towards carrying the logic one step further.
Sorry, ProfMTH, just in case you're scratching your head, it seems I left my message about aborted fetuses on the wrong page. It should be beneath the video you just referred to.
It seems to me that no matter what a person says, it could be taken in any number of ways. I choose to believe in the Bible. I don't think that I change it or add to it, but as for when it can be read literally or as hyperbole I guess I make the rules so that it makes sense, or perhaps I just am looking for the true spirit of what was meant. Will I ever know? Live Love Laugh.
@ProfMTH Important enough for everybody to find out. Is Faith just a delusion or is there really a God who loves us and want the best for us, even if we can't understand how it is to come about while the world falls apart around us?
Oh, it was simply another miracle. Jesus took 1 basket of disciples and multiplied them to a hundred. Simple magic. No childrens' parties though. (Rowan Atkinsons' line).
This makes me wonder, if the Bible is the "literal word of the Living God", why aren't Christians protesting at every Red Lobster in the country? Isn't it an abomination?
Incredible deconstruction and analysis of the tactics we all too often have to deal with by people who have no idea how intellectually dishonest they really are.
Thanks for the great videos. I thought you might be interested to know that Yale University just added a New Testament course to its selection of free online classes. They also have an excellent Old Testament course available. Just search for "open yale courses" and it should pop up as the first item. Although I haven't seen this one yet, it's definitely from the point of view of modern secular scholarship since he uses the Ehrman textbook.
Your are really quite good at these responses to refutations. I have only come upon two of your "blunders" that I felt I could respond to in order to suggest that your observations were not quite correct. Regardless of how i understand the matters, one must certainly concede that you are correct given the plain or literal meaning of the texts.
Lets undertand each other: I am a sincere believer, and what I am addressing is the cruel, hurtful and often malicious manner in which too many Christians use these texts. By pointing out the apparent contradictions, you are serving a similar purposes, inviting people not to be so self-assured and arrogant in their use of Scripture. Thats why I can identify with your productions.
The guidance of the holy spirit seems so very frustrating. You make a good point about the various explanations often being different or contradictory. It's frustrating because it's yet another part of Christianity (and religion) that seems to be neither provable nor falsifiable. I would imagine that the sinful nature of man would be a reply to the claim of God being the author of confusion. But if we can't know if the holy spirit is really guiding a person what good is it?
Jessemaurais, I'm just a regular guy who was a believer for most of his life. My area of scholarship is not the Bible in particular or religion in general. But thanks very much for wondering. :-)
Definitely. That's *several* warnings of bad mojo for those who add or subtract from the texts, isn't it? And, isn;t that exactly what the Apologetics are doing? Also sort of explains why the Literalists and Apologetics are always sniping at each other.
ProfMTH, Thank you for another hilarious and informative video! I am just blown away by the delivery and clarity of your arguments...perhaps you will consider touring with a comedy-lecture series? Thanks again!
I can refute you both...in the original story there may have BEEN the elements fivepointbaptist theorizes, but we don't HAVE the original so all ANYONE can do is guess about it. Both sides lose.
Look, Fivepointbaptist, I have already said that if you resubmit the responses, I will quite happily do what I did the first time, i.e., approve them. In fact, I'll go one better than that -- I'll take the approval thing off the video responses for this video. I have no desire to keep your video responses from being posted here. NONE. You have not resubmitted them to me. Your continuing suggestion that I'm refusing to post them is bullshit.
Does fivepoint also realize his explanation of John 14:5-6 contradicts every other christian who uses that verse to say Jesus IS the (only)way. If Jesus is ONLY talking to Thomas then that means it doesn`t hold the weight that every other christian presume it does. Thanks 5point for proving how I see that scripture. come join us deist.
ThirdProverb, as you no doubt know, many Christian apologists are so focused on whatever their apologetic goal is at the moment that they don't think (or even care) about how what they're saying effects the text that surrounds the passage(s) they're trying to rescue from error.
Yo, you just got you ass HANDED to you! No... more like force fed xD Your ass would be the pie that got shoved into your own face! Keep on making irrational excuses that don't make any sense because you want to hold onto your fairy tale, you deluded idiot.
You're doing something wrong, Fivepointbaptist, because, no, I did not get them. In any case, as noted above, I've removed the thing for approval of responses on this video.
This video, even though it is a response to a response, is in my opinion, the video that best sums up not only your general argument against religion, but also your ability to craft a video that lays out a strong, intense argument, spiced with references, upon quote, upon translation, upon footnote, and laced with just enough wit to leave a scratch.
Tendentiously Selective Literalism. My new favorite phrase.
This is though, every single christian is selective in their literalism. Even the ones who claim to be literalists and that the bible is inerrant. All christians cherry pick. The bible is more like a Rorschach ink blot than any sort of moral guide.
It is watching christians dance link that to defend their book. Do they even realize what they are doing?
"Tendentiously selective literalism. My new favorite phrase."
;-)
"Do they even realize what they are doing?"
Hard to know in all cases, of course. But I've talked to more than a few former Christians who said they knew exactly what they were doing when they were articulating the apologetic spin.
Fascinating. So they know that they are, to keep it simple, lying through their teeth in various ways. Did any of those former christians explain why they did it when they knew what they were doing? I suspect knowing what they were doing is part of what led them to become former christians.
Speaking for myself, since I wasn't a very good christian, I simply parroted what I was told. I neither understood what I was saying nor particularly cared.
"Lying through their teeth" is probably too extreme a characterization. 'Bullshitting' is the word I'd use, in the sense that Harry G. Frankfurt uses the word in his book "On Bullshit." Bullshitting is not the same as lying, but it's about getting away with something.
"Did any of those former Christians explain why they did it when they knew they were doing?"
A number of them said they felt obliged to defend the Bible or Christianity or Jesus or theism generally -- even all of the above.
I have read "On Bullshit" My take on the matter is slightly different from Frankfurt. For starters, I'm not sure if lying as differentiated from bullshit actually exists. Unless satan actually exists. But I digress.
So they felt obliged to defend their faith. Did they say what they felt about the way they were defending it? It seems kind of odd to need to use bullshit to defend your faith.
My favorite apologist language fudge concerns making a phoney mistranslation of "generation" into "race," thus saving jesus from being outright wrong (an error even CS Lewis admits to--calling it the "most embarrassing bible verse") about jesus' prophecy that the world would end during the lifetime of jesus' contemporaries. The relevant verse is Matthew 24:34
GetMeThere, have a look at my "Jesus Was Wrong" video. You'll see that apologetic fudge pop up in comments on an almost daily basis -- and the video is over a year old.
Nice come back...you should go after some other popular apologists or maybe expose the arsenal used by apologists, in either case love your vids and always look forward to the next!
well, I should be careful with generalizing here... I'm sure the're a couple of weirdo's out there that engage themselves in these 'tactics'... I still think that their religious feelings gives them the authority to 'fill in the gaps' whenever things do not add up: "God works in mysterious ways hey?" ;)
So it is not about reasoning, its about what feels right to them. Now, if they dare think openly, critically and honestly about it, and about their feelings, they can easily discover that it is a load of deluded crap :)
You can almost see the desperation wafting off them like comic stink lines.
In a nutshell, it really is all bollocks. You can't have a meaningful debate with someone who claims that the Bible is "literally" true - but then counters any apparent errors by claiming that they have to be interpreted in a certain way. A way that is often as much, if not more, of a stretch as Bill Clinton's claim that he did "not have sexual relations with that woman".
Well done Prof. I would however not see it as 'tactics' because I associate 'tactic' as something which has been thought about constructively. This is not the case here. As an ex-believer (not strictly Christian) I know where fivepointsbaptist is coming from. A strong belief can give people a great amount of confidence, making them feel as if they understand and can relate directly with the scriptures as if it was their own experience. This allows them to change it according to their feelings
well you might not think that whether he is gay or not is irrelevant but i think it is. It's like watching a black guy wearing a white robe and chanting "white power".
Well, I'm off to wander round town a bit now. I think I'll pop into the 24/7 One Stop Disciple Shop to pick up a few more followers. But I'll tell absolutely none of them where I'm going, apart from the ones that I do tell, of course.
Agreed with QualiaSoup. It is very easy to spot these tactics intuitively but you have explicitly expressed them articulately in this video in a way that I personally had never heard before. Well done.
Thanks for showing up these (oh-so) familiar tactics so effectively, Prof.
To try to 'explain' Adam's failure to die 'in the day he ate the fruit' (as foretold) someone recently told me that 'in the day' didn't refer to time, but certainty (ie. of death occurring 'at some point'). But they also wanted it to refer to Adam's 'immediate' (but unstated) 'spiritual death'. Great multi-tasking phrase there, with 2 conflicting meanings apparently both intended...
"Great multi-tasking phrase there, with 2 conflcting meanings apparently both intended."
lol Isn't it astounding, Qualia? One hears Christians making that sort of wild claim and all of a sudden it becomes clear why some people dismiss them as crazy. Oy!
The word "none" is not hyperbole! This guy's an idiot and a freakin' joker! I don't even know how to communicate with apologists anymore! They have no intellectual shame whatsoever!
Actually, John, when pressed many Christian inerrantists will retreat to a position very similar to the Muslim position you described, i.e., they say only the autographs (the original bliblical texts) were inspired and without error. Since the autographs are not extant, the claim lacks basis and can't be verified. Convenient, eh? It seems the Christian god couldn't be bothered to ensure that scribes and translators copied & translated his written communication to humankind without errors.
"Why need the text at all, why not just make the whole thing up."
Aside from the original being made up, god knows it would make more sense if we did just make it all up. The Star Wars saga has fewer contradictions in it than the bible.
I love apologetics. It's why I'm doing my own form of it right now. Of course, my interpretation is based on a literal definition that shows the Apostles as political rapscallions. :-)
Your series was an absolute inspiration to watch. It's why I started my own.
I hope you enjoy having fun with your new Baptist friend. Tell him to play nice now, there's enough Vague Jesus to go around for everyone!
you know what i wish? i wish this creep would clean his room before he turns on that cheap web cam.
since when did "chances are" become a valid research tool? "chances are" none of this happened at all. yeah. why is it that religious writings are so fraught with errors, additions, subtractions, total confusion and such?
god might be perfect, sure, but, turns out he's a shitty writer? can blink a universe into existence, struggles to find the right words?
"Could have been!" a favourite line of all apologists.
If Christians did a bit of investigation into New Testament research (research carried out by mostly CHRISTIANS by the way) they would know that the last few chapters of John have been redacted into oblivion. That's why you get problems like the 'where are you going' comment.
But no. To them, every word is straight from God's laptop.
"If Christians did a bit of investigation into the New Testament (research carried out by mostly CHRISTIANS by the way) they would know that the last few chapters of John have been redacted into oblivion."
I am glad Jesus is so concerned about the salvation of his chosen disciples as to use hyperbole, symbolism, and figurative language. He couldn't make it too easy on them, could he?
MunkyDrag0n 2 months ago
@MunkyDrag0n Exactly.
ProfMTH 2 months ago
Being a fivepointer I doubt he would agree with the bible using hyperbole when it says there are "none" who do good. After all that would shatter his faith in TD. But as long as it agrees with his dogma, then it's OK to reinterpret and lessen the definitions of the text.
dannytibi 3 months ago
@dannytibi "Being a fivepointer I doubt he would agree with the bible using hyperbole when it says there are "none" who do good."
Excellent point. Man, I hate baptists (hyperbole).
KayBeeEee1983 1 month ago
Fivepointbaptist: "I'll just make it up as I go along..."
mikefromwa 4 months ago
Great vid, prof. Fundie apologists play the same tricks when they try to sweep under the rug all of the passages that clearly support the doctrine of universal salvation, like "Just as all die in Adams sin, so too shall all be made alive in Christ." They like to "interpret" the word 'all' to mean "just Christians." Everyone else can burn forever... you know, because "His mercy endureth forever."
markviman 5 months ago
@markviman Yep. Thanks!
ProfMTH 5 months ago
@loudman12 lol.vwhy am I not surprised
DavidNeff2011 7 months ago
This is a phenomenon that I have recently started to notice in christian apologetic arguments. They will twist a story to the point that it is completely removed from the narrative form in order to try to force it to blend with other scripture.
MSPEL 7 months ago
"what god *really* meant to say was...."
Hilarious!
(part of me is saddened, though. how can large swaths of humanity be so stupid)
untestableClaims 8 months ago
Simply put, Amazing. Thank you for expressing so elegantly what I have felt my entire life about my Christian upbringing and the hypocritical morons who enforced it; slithering their way around plainly-stated "holey" text to concoct half-fictitious arguments in support of their own pretentious egos, contradictory beliefs, and self-serving ends.
And yes, my scorn comes from one of many very unambiguous and intimately applied biblical references: Proverbs 13:24. >:(
caramonspace 9 months ago
@caramonspace "Simply put, Amazing."
Thanks a lot.
ProfMTH 9 months ago
So basically, the bible says that everyone who believes in the bible as it exists today is going to hell for being a liar.
Awesome!
SnarkLicker 10 months ago
o wait! he cant
DavidNeff2011 1 year ago
id love to see fivepointbaptist respond to this
DavidNeff2011 1 year ago
@DavidNeff2011 he deleted the video shortly after this :)
loudman12 7 months ago
wow! fivepointbaptist just got schooled! id love to see his reply to this video
DavidNeff2011 1 year ago
Holy smokescreen, Batman!
kolonial72 1 year ago
Why do Christians bother possessing scripture if they can't be arsed to read the ENTIRE thing? I think that for all the good its been, Christianity should have just relied on oral tradition rather than preserving its myths in written form. At least it would have been more difficult for sceptics to outright debunk the variating, individual narratives.
Vexille1983 1 year ago
@Vexille1983 You may be right.
ProfMTH 1 year ago
Here's my analogy of every apologetic endeavor: 1st they are presented with a square block (aka "facts") as compared to their box with a circular opening (aka there bible or faith-based belief)
Instead of admitting the obvious incongruence of the two things, then instead set about to smash / chop-up / refashion the square block until the resulting smaller parts can all fit through their box's circular opening afterwhich they triumphantly & arrogantly declare that the 2 fit together perfectly!
LetReasonPrevail1 1 year ago
....and then they wonder why their "answers" annoy the ever-living shit out of us.
It makes me want to give up trying to have a rational & meaningful discourse with them.
You are a better man than I, Prof.
Cheers,
And let reason prevail (hopefully)
LetReasonPrevail1 1 year ago
@LetReasonPrevail1 Thanks for your comment. :-)
ProfMTH 1 year ago
Another one Bites the DUST =^_^=
Wonderful video
BlankPicketSign 1 year ago
@BlankPicketSign Thanks.
ProfMTH 1 year ago
Christians have always distorted the Scriptures to meet the challenges they faced at a given time. To this day many believe that Mary Magdalene was a prostitute simply because an early pope confused her with another story about a prostitute told just prior to her (Mary's) first appearance.
txvoltaire 1 year ago
@txvoltaire I am not so sure it was by mistake. There was actually a struggle between genders in the early church. In some sects women where allowed to preach, preform sacraments, etc. and in others they where forbidden to do so.
greyman000 1 year ago
they cant see they are doing it
erlock21 1 year ago
@erlock21 Many can't. They've allowed religious belief to dull their senses, as it were.
ProfMTH 1 year ago
"tendentiously selective literalism"-you've stated something that I've been thinking about for some time. it seems to me that people who believe the bible will place metaphor in for what isn't convenient to what they believe, and then turn around and take other things literally. I like that phrase.
creepyoldman2 1 year ago
fivepoint removed the video big surprise hu
johndebbra 1 year ago
@johndebbra Ha! I didn't realize he had done that. Thanks for the heads-up.
ProfMTH 1 year ago
Fivepointbaptist's video has been removed.
Win!
revjimbob 1 year ago
@revjimbob Thanks for letting me know.
ProfMTH 1 year ago
Nicely done mate, nicely done.
onefuriousllama 1 year ago
@onefuriousllama Thanks a lot.
ProfMTH 1 year ago
One day, far in the future, I hope people will enjoy going through my older vids the way I enjoy yours. I want to see this shit on PBS! lol.
Spread the word, peace.
ProfessorPEARL 1 year ago
@ProfessorPEARL Thanks a lot.
ProfMTH 1 year ago
Any other Monty Python fans flashing back to "The Penultimate Supper" watching this?
gramamge33 1 year ago
Well of course fivepointbaptist is right. haven't you seen 'entourage'? c'mon, jesus is havin an afterhours, whos not gonna go?
amphilli 1 year ago
Fivepointbaptist is an inerrantist not a literalist - be believes it is without error and will go out of his way to make it fit that straight-jacket of inerrantism.
johncrwarner 1 year ago
I completely agree about the religious tactic. But in most cases they just repeat what their preacher has taught them. They dont even bother reading the bible.
vottoduder 1 year ago
I don't think these apologetics are necessarily barking up the wrong tree. The Bible was written 2,000 years ago in a language none of us are familiar with. Moreover the first account (Mark) was written second hand 75 years after Jesus died. John came some 200 years after. Accepting that the Bible cannot be inerrant is a healthy step for many Christians who believe in a creator, but don't believe the dogmatic bullshit that people made up to go along with it and further their own ends.
TheWeiWuWei 2 years ago
@TheWeiWuWei though i agree with what you saying in most, the problem is that if the dogmatic bullshit is there, the only thing you need to get into heaven is believe in the reserction, if that is in a book of dogma you are on shaky ground there
loudman12 1 year ago
@loudman12 The entire book is rife with falsehoods and nonsense that doesn't deserve to be believed in. I was just saying that uncovering the one is a healthy step towards carrying the logic one step further.
TheWeiWuWei 1 year ago
@TheWeiWuWei I agree :D
loudman12 1 year ago
Sorry, ProfMTH, just in case you're scratching your head, it seems I left my message about aborted fetuses on the wrong page. It should be beneath the video you just referred to.
Love your posts, btw.
bronxboy47 2 years ago
No worries, Bronxboy47. I appreciate the comments and see that you've put your earlier one under the video you mean to put it under.
Thanks a lot.
ProfMTH 2 years ago
@ProfMTH another good video my friend im supprsed they have not given you a TV show yet, you would get the audiances lol :D
loudman12 1 year ago
Can we assume that aborted fetuses go to heaven as well? If so, then abortionists are performing a spiritual mitzvah.
bronxboy47 2 years ago
Have a look at FivePointBaptist's take on the post-mortem state of babies (and, presumably, fetuses) who die:
/watch?v=yf-UploVjHA
ProfMTH 2 years ago
It seems to me that no matter what a person says, it could be taken in any number of ways. I choose to believe in the Bible. I don't think that I change it or add to it, but as for when it can be read literally or as hyperbole I guess I make the rules so that it makes sense, or perhaps I just am looking for the true spirit of what was meant. Will I ever know? Live Love Laugh.
dragondoubt 2 years ago
"Will I ever know?"
I don't know whether you will, but it seems like an important enough to find out.
ProfMTH 2 years ago
@ProfMTH Important enough for everybody to find out. Is Faith just a delusion or is there really a God who loves us and want the best for us, even if we can't understand how it is to come about while the world falls apart around us?
dragondoubt 2 years ago
Another apologist pwned.
kossmikham 2 years ago
I wonder how long it takes an Apologist to get tired of explaining away all the problems in the Bible. After a while I am sure it must get sickening.
Ebal he Atheist
ebaltrace 2 years ago
Great job!
Very well explained and worded.
Hmmmm, (shrug).. Perhaps one day they will see the error of their ways... Its so sad.
The level of ignorance is incredibly unbelievable.
ObscurelyUnkown 2 years ago
Thanks a lot.
ProfMTH 2 years ago
Oh, it was simply another miracle. Jesus took 1 basket of disciples and multiplied them to a hundred. Simple magic. No childrens' parties though. (Rowan Atkinsons' line).
TTDeath 2 years ago
lol
ProfMTH 2 years ago
This makes me wonder, if the Bible is the "literal word of the Living God", why aren't Christians protesting at every Red Lobster in the country? Isn't it an abomination?
tcsam9202 2 years ago
Lying for Jesus.
supercrevolution 2 years ago
Thank you for spending the time to make these videos. You are an inspiration, and i am grateful.
amsterstorm 2 years ago
You're welcome. Thanks for taking the time to offer some feedback.
ProfMTH 2 years ago
Incredible deconstruction and analysis of the tactics we all too often have to deal with by people who have no idea how intellectually dishonest they really are.
Trunksoul 2 years ago
Thanks.
ProfMTH 2 years ago
yeah all good...but you do know more then me i guess that the world is full of `dumb` The dumb is every where!.
but its nice you are trying to clean `the dumb` up a little.
barakameek 2 years ago
It's amazing how far people go to show that the Bible is a Divine product.
kidwhocracked 2 years ago
Prof,
Thanks for the great videos. I thought you might be interested to know that Yale University just added a New Testament course to its selection of free online classes. They also have an excellent Old Testament course available. Just search for "open yale courses" and it should pop up as the first item. Although I haven't seen this one yet, it's definitely from the point of view of modern secular scholarship since he uses the Ehrman textbook.
altopelirrojo 2 years ago
Interesting. I'll check it out.
ProfMTH 2 years ago
love your stuff. quiet entertaining. Glad to know I am on your side man.
jrev37 2 years ago
Thanks a lot, Jrev.
ProfMTH 2 years ago
Your are really quite good at these responses to refutations. I have only come upon two of your "blunders" that I felt I could respond to in order to suggest that your observations were not quite correct. Regardless of how i understand the matters, one must certainly concede that you are correct given the plain or literal meaning of the texts.
allsaintsmonastery 2 years ago
"...one must certainly concede that you are correct given the plain or literal meaning of texts."
Thanks, Your Eminence. That's what I'm addressing in this series.
ProfMTH 2 years ago
Lets undertand each other: I am a sincere believer, and what I am addressing is the cruel, hurtful and often malicious manner in which too many Christians use these texts. By pointing out the apparent contradictions, you are serving a similar purposes, inviting people not to be so self-assured and arrogant in their use of Scripture. Thats why I can identify with your productions.
allsaintsmonastery 2 years ago
LOL!!
You're the best!!
I just love watching fundys squirm and turn when they try to fit square pegs in round holes with scripture..
PROFMTH 2012!!!
straygypsy 2 years ago
lol Thanks.
ProfMTH 2 years ago
The guidance of the holy spirit seems so very frustrating. You make a good point about the various explanations often being different or contradictory. It's frustrating because it's yet another part of Christianity (and religion) that seems to be neither provable nor falsifiable. I would imagine that the sinful nature of man would be a reply to the claim of God being the author of confusion. But if we can't know if the holy spirit is really guiding a person what good is it?
suniseclipsed 2 years ago
sunisec.... To be neither proveble of falsifiable.
You must know that it is false b/c the math is bad in 1 Chron..3;22 25;3 15;33-36 Ezra 1;9-11 Num.3;17 many more all have false math.
Matt13;31 False science.
robertobrian6 2 years ago
Quite right, Suniseclipsed.
ProfMTH 2 years ago
ProfMTH, I have to ask: Are you a biblical scholar? You seem to have an unusually deep understanding of the material.
jessemaurais 2 years ago
Jessemaurais, I'm just a regular guy who was a believer for most of his life. My area of scholarship is not the Bible in particular or religion in general. But thanks very much for wondering. :-)
ProfMTH 2 years ago
What about Revelations (the last paragraph in the bible) which calls down Gods curse on anyone who so much as adds a period or removes a comma?
RyuDarragh 2 years ago
Not good news for Fivepointbaptist, eh?
ProfMTH 2 years ago
Definitely. That's *several* warnings of bad mojo for those who add or subtract from the texts, isn't it? And, isn;t that exactly what the Apologetics are doing? Also sort of explains why the Literalists and Apologetics are always sniping at each other.
RyuDarragh 2 years ago
ProfMTH, Thank you for another hilarious and informative video! I am just blown away by the delivery and clarity of your arguments...perhaps you will consider touring with a comedy-lecture series? Thanks again!
ptm5150 2 years ago
Thanks very much, Ptm.
ProfMTH 2 years ago
I love this vid it made me laugh my ass off!! "apologetic alchemy" that's the perfect way to describe it!!! :P
egyprincess2k5 2 years ago
;-) Thanks a lot, Egyprincess.
ProfMTH 2 years ago
I can refute you both...in the original story there may have BEEN the elements fivepointbaptist theorizes, but we don't HAVE the original so all ANYONE can do is guess about it. Both sides lose.
WolfSyndrome 2 years ago
Nicely done Prof. Your visual style is getting better all the time and your sense of whit was rather restrained and subdued for this vid.
LordSavaunt 2 years ago
Thanks.
ProfMTH 2 years ago
;-) Thank you, sir.
ProfMTH 2 years ago
Indeed.
ProfMTH 2 years ago
Thanks very much, Fathermaynar.
ProfMTH 2 years ago
Another F'ing brilliant dissection of religious delusion!
InternalCompass 2 years ago
Thanks.
ProfMTH 2 years ago
Can you say OWNED!
R3APER24 2 years ago
Bwahahaha! I laughed out loud at 5:10 and 5:38. Great stuff!
And I can't believe that he equated Jesus' use of "none" to hyperbole. Kinda reminds me of, "Jesus was just talkin'."
Neilsama 2 years ago
"Kinda reminds me of, 'Jesus was just talkin'.'"
lol It's the same thing. Thanks, Neilsama.
ProfMTH 2 years ago
Nicely put. :)
enki35 2 years ago
Thanks a lot, Enki.
ProfMTH 2 years ago
pwned, biatch!!!
fairguynova 2 years ago
I sucked up this pwnage video with a french baguette and un verre de vin rouge :)
lol.....nicely done!!
preachersaredumb 2 years ago
"nicely done!!"
Thanks.
ProfMTH 2 years ago
Another great video. 5 stars.
Shmevidence would be a good name for a skeptic rock band.
HecticSkeptic 2 years ago
"Shmevidence would be a good name for a skeptic rock band."
LOL.
Thanks, HecticSkeptic.
ProfMTH 2 years ago
BRILLIANT!
I love your videos, keep up the good work.
wonslung 2 years ago
Thanks very much.
ProfMTH 2 years ago
Ahhhh... logic.
tomaselvis 2 years ago
;-)
ProfMTH 2 years ago
Still waiting. Did you recieve my responses or not?
fivepointbaptist 2 years ago
Why don't you post them in a video response so that everyone can see them?
sumopromark 2 years ago
@sumopromark
I have. Why don't you ask your leader to post them? It seems as though someone doesn't want to post them.
fivepointbaptist 2 years ago
My leader? I was just asking you a question. You've answered it (kind of), so could you provide me with a link to them? I would like to watch.
sumopromark 2 years ago
"Why don't you ask your leader to post them?"
Look, Fivepointbaptist, I have already said that if you resubmit the responses, I will quite happily do what I did the first time, i.e., approve them. In fact, I'll go one better than that -- I'll take the approval thing off the video responses for this video. I have no desire to keep your video responses from being posted here. NONE. You have not resubmitted them to me. Your continuing suggestion that I'm refusing to post them is bullshit.
ProfMTH 2 years ago
So man up, resubmit the responses, and stop lying.
ProfMTH 2 years ago
Lying for Jesus. A Christian tradition since the year 1.
middlekk 2 years ago
Quite true.
ProfMTH 2 years ago
Does fivepoint also realize his explanation of John 14:5-6 contradicts every other christian who uses that verse to say Jesus IS the (only)way. If Jesus is ONLY talking to Thomas then that means it doesn`t hold the weight that every other christian presume it does. Thanks 5point for proving how I see that scripture. come join us deist.
ThirdProverb 2 years ago
ThirdProverb, as you no doubt know, many Christian apologists are so focused on whatever their apologetic goal is at the moment that they don't think (or even care) about how what they're saying effects the text that surrounds the passage(s) they're trying to rescue from error.
Excellent point. Thanks.
ProfMTH 2 years ago
Another day another can of whoop ass opened I see.
JupiterJazzjaa2 2 years ago
lol
ProfMTH 2 years ago
I enjoy your videos man, but I think you put too much work into a bunch of bullshit.
miniontemple 2 years ago
Sent over my responses; did you get them?
fivepointbaptist 2 years ago
Yo, you just got you ass HANDED to you! No... more like force fed xD Your ass would be the pie that got shoved into your own face! Keep on making irrational excuses that don't make any sense because you want to hold onto your fairy tale, you deluded idiot.
Dwaithy 2 years ago
Not very nice. You should apologize to this fellow. He deserves criticism, not simple abuse.
simplic10 2 years ago
"Sent over my responses; did you get them?"
You're doing something wrong, Fivepointbaptist, because, no, I did not get them. In any case, as noted above, I've removed the thing for approval of responses on this video.
ProfMTH 2 years ago
"People should know when they are conquered."
A line from one my favorite movies that fivepoints ought consider.
tommylehman 2 years ago
"Gladiator"?
ProfMTH 2 years ago
Yep. Love it.
tommylehman 2 years ago
Gladiator - one if not thee favorite movie of mine.
Another great line - What you do in life,echoes in eternity.
ThirdProverb 2 years ago
This video, even though it is a response to a response, is in my opinion, the video that best sums up not only your general argument against religion, but also your ability to craft a video that lays out a strong, intense argument, spiced with references, upon quote, upon translation, upon footnote, and laced with just enough wit to leave a scratch.
0platypus0venom0 2 years ago
Well, thank you very much indeed, 0platypus0venom0.
ProfMTH 2 years ago
Tendentiously Selective Literalism. My new favorite phrase.
This is though, every single christian is selective in their literalism. Even the ones who claim to be literalists and that the bible is inerrant. All christians cherry pick. The bible is more like a Rorschach ink blot than any sort of moral guide.
It is watching christians dance link that to defend their book. Do they even realize what they are doing?
theantithesis1 2 years ago
me like this term too
leojboby 2 years ago
"Tendentiously selective literalism. My new favorite phrase."
;-)
"Do they even realize what they are doing?"
Hard to know in all cases, of course. But I've talked to more than a few former Christians who said they knew exactly what they were doing when they were articulating the apologetic spin.
ProfMTH 2 years ago
@ProfMTH
Fascinating. So they know that they are, to keep it simple, lying through their teeth in various ways. Did any of those former christians explain why they did it when they knew what they were doing? I suspect knowing what they were doing is part of what led them to become former christians.
Speaking for myself, since I wasn't a very good christian, I simply parroted what I was told. I neither understood what I was saying nor particularly cared.
theantithesis1 2 years ago
"Lying through their teeth" is probably too extreme a characterization. 'Bullshitting' is the word I'd use, in the sense that Harry G. Frankfurt uses the word in his book "On Bullshit." Bullshitting is not the same as lying, but it's about getting away with something.
"Did any of those former Christians explain why they did it when they knew they were doing?"
A number of them said they felt obliged to defend the Bible or Christianity or Jesus or theism generally -- even all of the above.
ProfMTH 2 years ago
@ProfMTH
I have read "On Bullshit" My take on the matter is slightly different from Frankfurt. For starters, I'm not sure if lying as differentiated from bullshit actually exists. Unless satan actually exists. But I digress.
So they felt obliged to defend their faith. Did they say what they felt about the way they were defending it? It seems kind of odd to need to use bullshit to defend your faith.
theantithesis1 2 years ago
"Did they say what they felt about the way they were defending it?"
Several said they were uncomfortable.
ProfMTH 2 years ago
I love you man(no homo)! You're awesome and I love your brief bible blunders. Keep up the intellectual pwnage! :3
Dwaithy 2 years ago
"I love you man (no homo)!"
LOL!
ProfMTH 2 years ago
Excellent little book by Frankfurt
lexmurphy 2 years ago
It really is.
ProfMTH 2 years ago
Very true. When I was a christian, I did the same thing, merely parroting what preacher said or I "added" to the story to make it make sense...
fairguynova 2 years ago
"When I was a Christian, I did the same thing, merely parroting what preacher said or I 'added' to the story to make it make sense."
Thanks for confirming that Christians do this, Fairguynova.
ProfMTH 2 years ago
My favorite apologist language fudge concerns making a phoney mistranslation of "generation" into "race," thus saving jesus from being outright wrong (an error even CS Lewis admits to--calling it the "most embarrassing bible verse") about jesus' prophecy that the world would end during the lifetime of jesus' contemporaries. The relevant verse is Matthew 24:34
GetMeThere1 2 years ago
GetMeThere, have a look at my "Jesus Was Wrong" video. You'll see that apologetic fudge pop up in comments on an almost daily basis -- and the video is over a year old.
ProfMTH 2 years ago
Nice come back...you should go after some other popular apologists or maybe expose the arsenal used by apologists, in either case love your vids and always look forward to the next!
dichotomyofone 2 years ago
Thanks.
ProfMTH 2 years ago
well, I should be careful with generalizing here... I'm sure the're a couple of weirdo's out there that engage themselves in these 'tactics'... I still think that their religious feelings gives them the authority to 'fill in the gaps' whenever things do not add up: "God works in mysterious ways hey?" ;)
lexmurphy 2 years ago
cont'd:
So it is not about reasoning, its about what feels right to them. Now, if they dare think openly, critically and honestly about it, and about their feelings, they can easily discover that it is a load of deluded crap :)
lexmurphy 2 years ago
You can almost see the desperation wafting off them like comic stink lines.
In a nutshell, it really is all bollocks. You can't have a meaningful debate with someone who claims that the Bible is "literally" true - but then counters any apparent errors by claiming that they have to be interpreted in a certain way. A way that is often as much, if not more, of a stretch as Bill Clinton's claim that he did "not have sexual relations with that woman".
thatgaybloke 2 years ago
"In a nutshell, it really is all bollocks."
lol Indeed.
ProfMTH 2 years ago
Well done Prof. I would however not see it as 'tactics' because I associate 'tactic' as something which has been thought about constructively. This is not the case here. As an ex-believer (not strictly Christian) I know where fivepointsbaptist is coming from. A strong belief can give people a great amount of confidence, making them feel as if they understand and can relate directly with the scriptures as if it was their own experience. This allows them to change it according to their feelings
lexmurphy 2 years ago
You make a good point, Lex.
ProfMTH 2 years ago
well you might not think that whether he is gay or not is irrelevant but i think it is. It's like watching a black guy wearing a white robe and chanting "white power".
pokermaster54 2 years ago
Another great video from the Prof.
Well, I'm off to wander round town a bit now. I think I'll pop into the 24/7 One Stop Disciple Shop to pick up a few more followers. But I'll tell absolutely none of them where I'm going, apart from the ones that I do tell, of course.
BoneySkylord 2 years ago
LOL.
ProfMTH 2 years ago
Brilliant as always
Ruby1978 2 years ago
Thanks a lot, Ruby.
ProfMTH 2 years ago
Agreed with QualiaSoup. It is very easy to spot these tactics intuitively but you have explicitly expressed them articulately in this video in a way that I personally had never heard before. Well done.
Evid3nc3 2 years ago
Thanks very much, Evid3nc3.
ProfMTH 2 years ago
Thanks for showing up these (oh-so) familiar tactics so effectively, Prof.
To try to 'explain' Adam's failure to die 'in the day he ate the fruit' (as foretold) someone recently told me that 'in the day' didn't refer to time, but certainty (ie. of death occurring 'at some point'). But they also wanted it to refer to Adam's 'immediate' (but unstated) 'spiritual death'. Great multi-tasking phrase there, with 2 conflicting meanings apparently both intended...
This video will come in handy! ;^>
QualiaSoup 2 years ago
"Great multi-tasking phrase there, with 2 conflcting meanings apparently both intended."
lol Isn't it astounding, Qualia? One hears Christians making that sort of wild claim and all of a sudden it becomes clear why some people dismiss them as crazy. Oy!
"This video will come in handy!"
Glad to hear it. Thanks a lot, Qualia. :-)
ProfMTH 2 years ago
profmth.. Another gentle public refutation.
Wonderfully made prof. keep them coming.
robertobrian6 2 years ago
Thanks a lot, Robero.
ProfMTH 2 years ago
MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA..... oh very good Prf. VERY GOOD... I almost pee laughing laughing, can't write... HAHAHAHA
AzazelMachine 2 years ago
The word "none" is not hyperbole! This guy's an idiot and a freakin' joker! I don't even know how to communicate with apologists anymore! They have no intellectual shame whatsoever!
Antichrist4Life 2 years ago
Well, it "might" be hyperbole, but let's make up our minds-its either "tenaciously literal" or "hyperbole", not both at the same time.
dj092768 2 years ago
Actually, John, when pressed many Christian inerrantists will retreat to a position very similar to the Muslim position you described, i.e., they say only the autographs (the original bliblical texts) were inspired and without error. Since the autographs are not extant, the claim lacks basis and can't be verified. Convenient, eh? It seems the Christian god couldn't be bothered to ensure that scribes and translators copied & translated his written communication to humankind without errors.
ProfMTH 2 years ago
"Why need the text at all, why not just make the whole thing up."
Aside from the original being made up, god knows it would make more sense if we did just make it all up. The Star Wars saga has fewer contradictions in it than the bible.
Raptor302 2 years ago
I love apologetics. It's why I'm doing my own form of it right now. Of course, my interpretation is based on a literal definition that shows the Apostles as political rapscallions. :-)
Your series was an absolute inspiration to watch. It's why I started my own.
I hope you enjoy having fun with your new Baptist friend. Tell him to play nice now, there's enough Vague Jesus to go around for everyone!
TheTruePooka 2 years ago
"there's enough Vague Jesus to go around for everyone!"
lol
ProfMTH 2 years ago
pretty hard pwn right there.
neveruse513 2 years ago
hey, prof!
you know what i wish? i wish this creep would clean his room before he turns on that cheap web cam.
since when did "chances are" become a valid research tool? "chances are" none of this happened at all. yeah. why is it that religious writings are so fraught with errors, additions, subtractions, total confusion and such?
god might be perfect, sure, but, turns out he's a shitty writer? can blink a universe into existence, struggles to find the right words?
jesus.
hobnailrose 2 years ago
"since when did 'chances are' become a valid research tool?"
In apologetics, just about anything goes, Hobnailrose.
ProfMTH 2 years ago
"Could have been!" a favourite line of all apologists.
If Christians did a bit of investigation into New Testament research (research carried out by mostly CHRISTIANS by the way) they would know that the last few chapters of John have been redacted into oblivion. That's why you get problems like the 'where are you going' comment.
But no. To them, every word is straight from God's laptop.
Excellent video btw
daryl1q1 2 years ago
"If Christians did a bit of investigation into the New Testament (research carried out by mostly CHRISTIANS by the way) they would know that the last few chapters of John have been redacted into oblivion."
Indeed.
"Excellent video btw."
Thanks a lot.
ProfMTH 2 years ago