The Meaning of the Avant Garde, and Overcome by Ed Kowalczyk

[keldude83]

cheesy is american idol. this is better than that.

[misteredwino]

This is so weak.

[JamaisMEC]

What I find fascinating about the self-proclaimed avaint garde is the near-manic and obsessive efforts to erect and sustain an image of avant-garde-ism. In this sense les avant-gardes become slaves to their deconstructionism, their nihilism...and in the process become their own self-fulfilling prophesies. Yet I am particularly appreciate of those among the avant-gardes who can laugh at their own ventures into the expression of self-importance...as for the others? Narcissists with BFA/MFA's?

[MeatyCockandBallz]

This video is hilarious. They begin with talking about avant-garde music and the expanding of consciousness and end with the cheesiest, most conventional VH1 rock song ever! LOL

FAIL!

[etkinyang]

but, they really should look in some books and read about this movement which is called avant garde. and which actually has to do with interaction with everyone in the performance and creativity coming from 'presence'. it's very weird that ken wilber is also involved into a misunderstanding

[etkinyang]

this song is not avant-garde. not even in conscious sense expressed art.. it is totally automating people to the center of the song.. and it is keeping a distance between the audience and the artist.. fusion of life and art does not come together at all.. this is just some music which is talking to people.. which is also nice..

[TedGoranson69]

Iannis Xenakis he ain't.

[ramas0012]

it's avant Garde in a consciousness sense expressed in art, in this case music.

[BenadrylAnnug]

very avant garde music *rolls eye*

[gregorypettys]

why is this song concidered avante garde?

[BoydtheMilkman]

This song is so avant-garde that it flies around the sphere of musical development, ends up about 12 years ago and parodies the mediocre by imitating it down to the last note.

IT IS FUCKING INCREDIBLE

[MeatyCockandBallz]

LMAO!!!

After watching this video I'm convinced Wilber is a hack and a fraud.

[acerb45666555]

can he sing in Polish? theyd love him over there!

[MeatyCockandBallz]

Hahaha

[acerb45666555]

audio and visual art need each other!!

[MaBu888]

Ken Wilber has a SUBLTE sense of houmo:"... to discuss the avant gard in generel..." *drinks supsicious looking liquid from suspicious container* "... and the uh... " :)

[MaBu888]

That is to say, humor.

[realityway]

Strange that Ed did not point out that this Song was written about and inspired by His Guru Adi Da, who interestingly played the album over and over 100's of times, presumably empowering the music when he was gifted it by Ed, a powerful track for more reasons then you know !!

[nathanpresleybrodie]

To me this song has a christian feel/message about it. its a very beautiful song. i don't listen to whatever avant garde crap they're talking about at the start i just wait til the song is loaded and skip to it. what i gather they're talking about reminds me of the experimentation period Tim Buckley went through and this song i think is not like that. i didn't care for that period of his work anyway

[seaofsevens]

I randomly ended up here, searching for avant garde films, and I couldn't help but comment on the the fact that someone is trashing avant garde because he is not familiar with it. I agree, per another comment, that this is not avant garde, however, the purpose of leaving my comment here now is to hopefully inspire anyone who is not familiar with the concept to look into it. our society is in dire need of more avant garde...if it's at all possible

[CodyRicheson]

So, why is this song featured here? I watched the entire thing, thinking, what will this avant-garde composition sound like, and it ends up being a very conventional acoustic rock song. What was its purpose here?

[d1974]

It's a good song but what's so avant garde about it? Doesn't sound like anyething R.E.M. wouldn't use in Out of Time, their most main-stream album.

I hate it when spiritual teachers recommend tastes in art. Folks take it too seriously. They think that the "right" music will promote their way to enlightenment while the "wrong" kind will hinder it or even compromise their pure, divine, ethereal souls.

[enlightenedtwo]

The last of the avant garde painters is the genius, who witnesses the enlightenment, which is based on their transcendence of the object and subject of art.

Praise the Genius!!!

[mradamcooley]

avant garde= scissor shock.. look em up on youtube

[lardonastick]

I agree with the nay-sayers here. What is avant garde about playing music that still sounds like it is from 1995? They would have been better off leaving of the definition of avant garde as to "open pathways for us all to grow into newly emergent artistic, cultural, and intellectual possibilities..."

Yeah, because that's what Live does.

About the only place to find avant garde now is is jazz (which has been true for a long time) or electronic/noise/experimental music.

[Unstucked]

bjork = avant garde

[DannyBZ9]

just shut up already. people just want to here the song not your rhetoric!! make a video of this with just the song please

[wormholetraveler]

a brilliant performance of "Overcome" by Ed.

[anonmist]

post modern suxx. i'm avaant garde b cuz i want to be screw it there's no room but they can't stop it. hah hah hah love it 666 777

[sgwinn1]

Ed is the ultimate artist - he sings with feeling and conveys something deep and meaningful that you can take with you. I listen to Live on my ipod every morning on my way to work - it starts my day off on a good "note." Avant Garde or not. Fantastic. Love Ed, Love Live.

[MaBu888]

The integral theory movement must go through tons of scrutiny and evolution. And it will.

[MmirrorismM]

I don't understand how it went from discussing avant-garde to some performance that sounds exactly like every other singer-songwriter that you hear playing at your local Starbucks.

[MaBu888]

Ergo, thou hast not learned about the intricacies of thys songe the Overcome, ergo thy comment maght seem very inappropriate and insultying. Yea that is how English was written 350 yeares ago.

[Unasleep]

There is indeed a unifying consciousness that precedes even the artist's awareness. Take a look at the self-created watercolors (posted above) - great visual examples of 'art without the artist'.

And Ed, fantastic as always. You're a great inspiration. Keep 'em coming.

Peace-

unASLEEP

(also TheWatercolors)

[laag4]

I agree with Cephalicexodus, although we could be missing the point to this piece of art. In response to jxmxxxlxxxndxr, Andy Warhol was not the first to infuse pop with fine art. For instance, kenneth Anger did, who's first film was distributed in 1947. In film, one of the best things avant garde has done in my opinion is the manupulation of the film medium... I think trying to create a new subject has been way overdone.

[cephalicexodus]

The introductory speech resonated with me and had a lot of truth to it. Very interesting.

However the performance that followed was practically the antithesis of what was being spoken about. Lame, uninspired, redundant radio rock.

[jxmxxxlxxxndxr]

Avant-garde means nothing unless it's rebelling against something strong. The power of rebellion comes from the power of tradition. Andy Warhol

killed the avant-garde when he fused pop with the fine arts. Now today, unfortunately, the world is totally media-centric. People are not looking at the great fundamentals. They're being trained in a desiccated, fifth-generation version of ironic postmodernist game-playing.

This is traditional music, not provocative at all. Fucking charlatans.

[ledzepboy3]

Let me get this straight... everyone wants to be better, not different. I personally don't think that art should be anything with rules, except the rules you created in you're own world. Andy Warhol was a experimentalist, so I think he did what he wanted to. He's a visionary. The power of rebellion comes from who ever wants to rebel. Not only from the "fine artists". That is my personal opinion.

[lestatv3]

Different = Better. Just compare some repetitive thing with something that changes times from times. Or something that already is being made for a long time with something new or different.

Sorry for the Lame English. ^_^

[Henrin]

yeah your right.

the thing that i would have liked KW to address is wether bands that are not "integral" can still produce Integral art.

i think integral art is kind of a weird term. after all, all art is integral. Int. theory should really keep out of art. theres nothing to change.

art is art. its all integral. that simple.

though, i think the song he played is still a bit different than most. a bit. ;-)

[DavidWebb42]

An absolutely amazing performance by Ed--raw but incredibly polished. Live has always delivered "conscious music". It is kind of a turn-on to hear about spiritually-charged music.

[geniusloch]

The meaning of an avant-garde movement is understood through the last of the line. I'm claiming to be the last of the avant-garde painters of the 20th century abstract art movement. I'm currently developing on online museum. Google ( museum avant garde painters )

The art form of music does not have an end We will never be able to understand a history of the avant-garde, because there will never be a last or an end. Note: I have no respect for the likes of a Ken Wilber.

[MaBu888]

That's OK Lulz what ever. Know more!

[brucegoodie]

Clowns. They are both immitating kens legpositiion:-) Stu is tense and Ed looks like

is child that gets surpressed by the father!

[jprothe]

Agreed. He's a fantastic performer in person if you ever get the chance to see him.

[IntegralNaked]

Hey timesquares i agree with your comment, to a point, but i think what is really going on here is that there are multiple ways the artistic avant garde can be expressed. In music, it may be lyrical content (like Live, Saul Williams, Stuart Davis, etc.) or it may be instrumental (Radiohead, Nine Inch Nails, Aphex Twin, etc.). It could even be expressed through delivery and distribution, like Trent Reznor is currently experimenting with. So there's avant-garde intention vs. avant-garde form.

[jahray]

I like the cannibalistic comment from Mr Wilber -- lol -- "that's what you do..." anyhoot-- its real

thanks for the full circle of this short discussion -- and song -- peace

[HuntrMastr]

cool. I like hearing the song live like that more than in the studio version. Good song.

[Lilylulay]

Wow, what a great song :)

[Pranananda]

thank you very much. such a wonderful voice... (both ken and ed!)