and the purpose of this as if you were to prove something with wrong information. i doubt it. my paradigm will never change I am God the father(creator) created this body for my spirit but body is only a guise of sinful flesh and my spirit is contrary to my flesh so the one you see outwardly is not who my new inner man is my flesh(son) derived from my formative agent my Spirit and Father or creator is just who I am and I will be that which i will be. that I AM
first of all is this find scripture and debate session? and I never said i wasnt Good get revelation I said why call me GOOD WHEN BY YOUR LAW BASICALLY NONE IS GOOD BUT GOD SO WHY WOULD YOU CALL ME GOOD(knowing the law) and there are not many gods for THERE IS NO OTHER LIKE ME AND THERE IS NONE BESIDES ME
I know the truth you all add scriptures to even the true word of God only to have argument. For one HOW MANY VERSIONS ARE THERE OF THE BIBLE? for 2 GOD IS ONE AND I COULD CARE LESS WHAt A JEHOVAHS supposed to be witness thinks I'm CHRIST HIMSELF WHY SHOULD I DEBATE? EVERYTHING IS GOING DOWN EXCEPT THE WORD OF GOD WHO IS?
Mom and Dad are both parents. Both have full authority in love to guided, direct, admonish, correct, discipline, exort, rebuke, and nurture their children. Both are parents with equal authority, but the wife subjects herself to her husband as head. "I am parent, but my husband is greater than I". Study the Greek for "greater" and it's context in the verse you quote. Read parents as God in the example to help you understand the position Jesus speaks of in relation to the Father. Father/Son = God.
pt-4 Hebrews 6 4-6 culminates explaining that if one comes to know the truth of Jesus and falls back into trusting the old ways for salvation, he will be worse off than before he learned of Jesus.
How many of your foundational "truths" need to be exposed as false, before you fearfully consent to re-examine the whole system? The bulk of JW doctrine is based on misunderstood and out of context ideas. Anything built upon it gets progressively further from the truth. God and Jesus, separate yet 1.
pt-4 Hebrews 6 4-6 culminates explaining that if one comes to know the truth of Jesus and falls back into trusting the old ways for salvation, he will be worse off than before he learned of Jesus.
How many of your foundational "truths" need to be exposed as false, before you fearfully consent to re-examine the whole system? The bulk of JW doctrine is based on misunderstood and out of context ideas. Anything built upon it gets progressively further from the truth. God and Jesus, separate yet 1.
Do you not understand the context of the book of Hebrews? Written to Jewish converts to Christ who have had some of their members revert BACK to trusting in the law of Moses for salvation. The whole point of the book was that Jesus was not only higher than the angels that they reverenced, but the very fulfilment of the Law and Sacrifice, why He qualified to be our great high priest and sacrificial lamb defeating death forever as opposed to the temporary annual covering of sin by the law.
John 17:5 "Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.
You read Heb 2:7-8 as if God made (or created) Jesus to be lower in position to the angels, but Jesus is not a created being, and He (Jesus) was the one who created the angels. Read John chapter 1.
Heb 2:7-8 "YOU HAVE MADE HIM FOR A LITTLE WHILE LOWER THAN THE ANGELS; YOU HAVE CROWNED HIM WITH GLORY AND HONOR, AND HAVE APPOINTED HIM OVER THE WORKS OF YOUR HANDS;
8a YOU HAVE PUT ALL THINGS IN SUBJECTION UNDER HIS FEET." For in subjecting all things to him, He left nothing that is not subject to him.
God made Jesus a little lower than the angels "for a little while". I.E. When Jesus willingly stepped down from Godhood and became a man. Ever see the program "Undercover Boss"?
I love how this guy takes a scripture and acts like god said it! just because its in the bible....I think he has to realize its written by men with thousands of errors and contradictions.... Jeremiah 8:8 (King James Version) 8 “‘How can you say, “We are wise, for we have the law of the LORD,”when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?
Both terms Son of GOD and Son Man apply to Christ- although Son of Man applies to both his Deity and humanity. As Son of Man Christ hungered, slept, wept, was thirsty, and ultimately died, but as Son of God= equal with God, John 5:18 as John's gospel declares -Christ raised his flesh from death. John 2:19-21. We have to bend our knee here a bit and realize we can't explain the mechanics of it all and we are not meant to.
It was interesting, I noticed that Ho Theos statement by Newagegamer, Ho Theos to the JW, Implies and identity-namely Jehovah. Ho Theos is also applied to Christ in Matthew 1:23, John 20:28-which is a discussion in itself. Hebrews 1:8 as well. It is also applied to Christ in Titus 2:13 the great God and Savior of us, Jesus Christ. To say the Son of God doesn't mean he is God- one would also have to assume that Son of Man wouldn't mean he was a man. Which is rediculous. Love to all.
"12 Art not Thou from everlasting, O HaShem my G-d, my Holy One? we shall not die. O HaShem, Thou hast ordained them for judgment, and Thou, O Rock, hast established them for correction."
In the Jewish Scriptures it says: "we shall not die" and not "you shall not die"
@HighCarro It's a mistranslation because certain scribes considered the idea of God dying to be too offensive, so the text was changed to "we shall not die." However, it is corrected in the New JPS translation, which reads:
"You, O LORD, are from everlasting; My holy God, You never die."
@HoocH65 You said you were raised a Jehovah's Witness but yet for all truth is not within you - satan was raised as God's son but yet for all he chose to disobey his father - The word was with God please explain that part of the scripture
@HoocH65 I've just found this series of videos, so I don't know if you are still monitoring them, but I have a question for you. In Revelation 3:12 ( Red Letter Edition ), Jesus refers to HIS GOD. If Jesus IS God, why does he say he HAS a God ? I am not affiliated with the watchtower, nor any other church for that matter. I do however, read the Bible for myself, and I also think for myself. In my reading, Jesus never, ever, says out right, that he is God. I welcome your response.
It was protected and if you look at the dark ages - what got man OUT of the dark ages? The Bible. It was suppressed for a long time and Luther found an old Bible and translated it into German and denounced the papacy - this is what led to the papal bull calling for his head. Luther rightfully burned that papal order.
We know God is the Creator yes? God is the Creator - this is established in Genesis, Isaiah and elsewhere in Scripture - if God is the Creator and if you JW's say Jesus is not God how does John call Jesus the Creator and say "All things were made through Him" ?
I have an amazing man Id like everyone to know about this man has had 42 years of thorough research into religoins the occult and more his name is Jordan Maxwell and everyone should watch his seminars their on here their on google and you will learn some amazing wisdom.
the amazing man jesus christ was a fictional charecter based upon the movement of the sun around the equater the bible made a great story to teach people how to live better lives but it was nothing more then a great tale based on astrolagy.
the biblical reference 2 HIRAM in the nwt concordance clearly shows masonic association.hiram abif was an insignificante chief builder of solomens temple and does`nt really mean much 2 christians bt he is held in high regard by freemason.
I WONDER Y JW HAVE REFERENCE 2 HIS NAME???
and what about the word GRAND MASTER in hosea 12:14 and malichi 1:6
the word grand master is mainly used in 2 circles chess and FREEMASONRY!!!
jw cant b taken seriously cause thier masonic beliefes show us how far they really r from the truth!! masons also believe that Jesus was not God and that the messiah was tortured on a stake,masons regard jaque de moley as thier messiah thats probably y jw emphysis the stake even though there is irreffutable proof of the cross.masons also don`t believe in the trinity and believe in the devine name jehovah. BIRDS OF A FEATHER...
yeah you are right. I read a book about masonry and how they are related to some existing cults including JW. To deny the deity of Christ is to have a false hope in eternity. to separate Him from the Godhead makes our salvation futile and nothing. A natural fallen man can not save the world from its sins, it takes a pure mery and perfect love to accomplished it which we found in the Lord Jesus cause He came from the Father and in Him dwells the fullness of God.
Continued. 1 Cor 8:6 is 100% proof that Jesus is God, he said "We have One God the Father, and One Lord Jesus Christ" thank you very much, this must mean that since he thinks that the Father is Seperate from the Son, this means that "THE FATHER IS NOT LORD"! This proves that Jesus is the Almighty again, because if Jesus is our ONLY Lord, then he has to be God, since by JW they say The Father is Also Lord, which is affirmed in Scripture(Luke 2:22) Jehovah Witnesses have very weak arguments, very!
Also, Colossians 1:15 is a verse falsly used by Jehovah Witnesses to somehow show that Jesus was created. This would contradict Revelation 1:17 because Jesus says there "I AM THE FIRST AND THE LAST". The God of the OT is the ONLY One that said "I am the first and the last"(Isaiah 44:6, Isaiah 48:12) Therefore Jesus was claiming to be Yahweh just there, Jesus is GOD:)!. In conclusion, Colossians 1:15 in the greek means "above all" its pre-eminence, first born of all craetion means "ABOVE ALL"
Watch out people, Jehovah Witnesses always twist scripture and always show you the proof for Christs Humanity, and reject the proofs for his divinity. We as Christians know that Jesus was fully man in his human nature, and fully God in his God nature. Therefore it is the man praying to "let God's will be done" because Jesus was following the law, which says "You that hear prayer, Let ALL flesh come to you(Psalm 65:2). Therefore, Jesus was required to pray as the Second Adam, Jesus is GOD!
Did you know that the NWT says that Jesus is Jehovah God? Even in the KIT pg 18,paragraph 3,4. Phil 2:11. that every tongue should confess that Jesus(Iseous)Christ(Christos) is Lord(Kurios,Kyrios=Jehovah God) to the glory of God the Father. And to that I say Amen and amen! Jesus is Jehovah God! Col 2:8,9. Bless you for trying to tell people about the WT. You are reaching folks for Christ!
This man cannot debate, he gets his information from Watchtower books such as "Should we Believe in trinity" Which I have refuted miserabely. Habakkuk 1:12 does not say what he said, he has a false translation(NWT), but let us assume that it does say God died, did the God(Deity) of Chrsit die, or did the flesh die? He said God raised him from the dead, didnt Jesus say "destroy this tmple and "I" will raise it in 3 days? Jehovah Witnesses are responsible for taking many to hell, read John 8:24).
It appears that you have more faith in your religious non-belief in Christ, than any of the faithful I have known in my lifetime.
"The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God." 2 Corinthians 4:4
"Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:" (Eph 4:18)
But that can change..
"For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." (Ro 10:13)
God inspired and providentially preserved His Word perfect via HIS promises.
"But whoso looketh into the PERFECT law of liberty, and continueth [therein], he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed." (Jas 1:25)
The Bible is infallible.
Naturalistic-exclusivite text critics come and go. It's been going on for centuries.
What Hab 1:12 really says in the God inspired words of the Authorized Version is
[Art] thou not from everlasting, O LORD my God, mine Holy One? we shall not die. O LORD, thou hast ordained them for judgment; and, O mighty God, thou hast established them for correction.
Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
do other books have 100% accurate prophecies, do they explain how the jews crosses over the red sea 2 get 2 the promised land(which is not only biblical bt also historic).wake up bro the other books r all mason deception.
ask urself y no one questions the existance of muhamed or budda,y is there such an attack on christianity.
it all boils down 2 the freemasons.they formed jehovah`s witnesses,mormons,kkk,thelema,scientology,oto,satanism and all occult.u r the brainwashed one.
no jesus christ is not a angel it says in hebrews 1:1-8 read it believe it jesus christ is much more than angels i cant believe all those bible studys and u never read this scripture it clearly says jesus christ has never been nor never will be a angel also read revelations 22:12 he clearly calls him self the first and the last tell me newagegamer who is the alpha and omega jesus or god? if you say god then jesus is god cause he calls himself that if u say its not jesus u call the word a lie um?
If jesus is not god then why did he call him self the first and the last in revelations 1:17-18 "Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades." i thought that god almighty is the first and the last some thing that is the first has no beginning which means christ was not created.. also revelations 22:13 I am the alpha and omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end
you guys are funny even if god him self told you you wouldnt beleave its a fact that the 10 commandments came from the egyptian book of the dead im sorry you cant see the truth and im all over like god peace
buddha said when men have weakness of mind they go to mountains and speak with burnning bushes, meangod was created in our image not the other way around, aslo i have a vid id like you to watch calledseven steps to self ascension, we can not take that which dose not have form and give it form thats a symbel plz check the vid, ill reseach what ever you like if youll do it for me but i hve stuide this since i was 14 im not old but ill be 30 this year. peace
the sumerians were the 1st to tell of the story of adam,eve,the flood, tower of babel, sodom and gramora kain and able you bible is the 7 tablets of creation told in a new way were as buddhist is the tao of god not a story retold and feed to you as truth long befor the bible was here!
i love jesus was a great man but none the less a man, are god is the creator of all you can take it how ever you like, and just becouse you or i dont beleave in something doesnt mean it isnt true, a fact is a fact and we cant change that do you beleave in the big bang or,string therey,M-therey,rencarnation,black holes,white holes,the stars ruleing your way of thinkin, time running on a loop no beginng no end reseach these things and its a fact that the summerians told eveything i said they did!
re: ReDbOAtHuNgGaR: This guy's ALL OVER THE PLACE! NO hope, no constructive conversation, no foundation. Cult like. Eastern mysticism...been there, done that. Pure vanity.
read Zechariah 12:10 "And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son." now notice it say "the one they have pierced" how can they pierce god if he is formless and shapeless unless he was human we all know jesus was pierced in his side and that is god talking btw.
hey thanx pbar1000 it speaks of jesus christ being pierced in john 19:34 "One of the soldiers, however, pierced his side with a spear, and immediatley blood and water flowed out.
Speaks volumes doesn't it? I used the same scripture on this post 1 week ago. It says a lot about the character of God, his Son, and the Spirit, keep up the Good Work.
see the diffrence between me and you is that i dont beleave in religon i beleave in god and theres nothing inbetween me and him and theres nothing i need to lead me to him buddhist is not a relgion its a way of life teaching of buddha about the tao to help you lead a life in the middle were you dont give to much or to little is the way of tao the flow of life. every thing in life is born to die and comes back as something else its god way,the sumerians made the storys of your bible
red boat hung gar is the style of kung fu i studie it means tiger and crane,what do you think relgions like hindu and buddhist that dont beleave in jesus are wrong i bet you never even read and book on ither 1 if you did and were of a open mind i dout youd give me a tumb down your traped in the mind get ove jesus he came to teach us to be like him not to kiss his feet, what youll say is right ill say is wrong what i say is right you say is wrong time to look past right and wrong,i bow to no man!
the bottom line is that freemasonry (the builders)is decieving the world about Jesus(the stone).ALL the following cult`s have been founded by freemasons and believe that Jesus is not GOD:jehovah`s witnesses,mormons,O.T.O,thelema,church of satan,scientology,kkk etc and all occult.
now, if birds of a feather sticK together,the company jw,s keep tells a lot about thier goal.I`M PRAYING 4 U GUYS.
read the lost book of enki, or search sumerian clay tablets translated on youtube to see were the story of god comes from in the way you speak of god, nothing last forever not even the heaven that they say will, all heaven is is a place of more happyness than sarrow and hell is in the same boat the only thing that doesn't change is change it self there for thats the only thing that stays the same the soul must change to learn. so heaven cant be forever
Attacking once again with old, worn out excuses.. Hear this one all the time. Keep in mind, I'm not attacking you. All the Bible quotes in history cannot justify the Watchtower's misleading subliminal disorientation of scripture and the TRUE NATURE of GOD and HIS CHARACTER. We pray for all the members to know His true nature.
NO moses was not an idol, i said that he was not a true god.
no He did`nt! in the niv, God said u will b LIKE god.He did`nt make him god.
pls tell me how an organization which has incorrectly interpreted ALL the prophecies concerning Jesus` return and the end times,correctly interpret any other scripture?
zerohero:"none of the references that I cited were written by Jehovah's witnesses acts17:3" JW's always use this argument about quoting scripture. It's an old, ancient, worn out excuse for misleading people about the TRUE NATURE of GOD and HIS CHARACTER. Very few TRUE Christians can be decieved by the Watchtower's counterfiet Jehovah and Jesus, because they know the AUTHENTIC Lord and Savior. True Christians are free, Watchtowerites are bound by Satan through a complex system of beliefs, sadly.
jw`s often say that satan is also a god thus equating Jesus 2 satan instead of God the Father.
the problem with that view is that it is contrary 2 the bible cause the bible tells us that Jesus is the"KING of kings and the LORD of lords" where as satan is refered 2 as a prince.
john 5:23 tells us 2 honour Jesus LIKE the Father.
well zero2hero12,if u read the verses u quoted properly u would note that in all the verses it referes 2 a lowwer case g 4 god, thus refering 2 untrue gods where as Jesus is (in ALL true interpretation) refered 2 with a capital G.
zerohero, you are doing NO JUSTICE at all for the JW case with your explanation of everything and everyone being gods. Maybe this the way of JW's justifying the belief in there being 2 gods of the bible, Jesus AND Jehovah. This is EXACTLY the paradox that the Watchtower faces, and why very few TRUE believers fall for this destructive cult. Knowing the REAL JEHOVAH helps us to distinguish from the COUNTERFEIT JEHOVAH and His Christ.
Zero2hero12 - Your reply avoids my point. You are aware that the Jws teach that in 1918-1919 they had an appointment with Jesus in which they claim that they were providing proper food at the proper time. So Jesus made them in charge of all his things(Matt 24:45-47 is what they use there). Just so we are clear that in 1918-19 at that time they were teaching that Jesus came in 1874 (read that twice and check it three times) they were NOT providing the right food at the right time.
matt. 17:21 there nothing there in the new worlds translation but it is in the king james and sorry jesus came to teach to be like him not worship and he was not god, open your mind dont just read the bible read everything. God is in everthing not just your book and god is not a author
ReDbOAtHuNgGaR - I see that you are saying that the New world translation's Matt 17:21 is blank(Revelation 22:19 comes to mind)[anyone taking away from the bible will have thier name removed from the book of life]. But you lost me on "read the Bible read everything, God is in everything and God is not the author."
theres alots ofthings missing from there bible thats in the king james but that nither here nor there to me im buddhist, think of it this way nothing can be outside of god there for god is to be found in every thing is what i meant and any book or teaching that helps you understand god is great but dont take it as the only way forgot were but even the bible tell that you must look here and there. peace
ReDbOAtHuNgGaR, wow...I had to copy/paste that nickname! I had to laugh out loud (not at you), but at what you said: "...even the bible tells that you must look here and there." Could you tell us, where in the Holy Bible does it say "you must look here and there."? Jehovah tells us we must not look elsewhere: "They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him... (cont.)
...as one grieves for a firstborn son." Zechariah 12;10 Now... tell me. Where does he want us to look? Show me a scripture, please? For those who are anti-trinitarian and deny Christ, here's the WHOLE verse: "And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son." Peace
isaiah 28:13, but i guess it depends how you interpet it but its- but the word of the lord was onto them precept upon precept,precept upon percept; line upon line,line upon line;HERE A LITTLE,AND THERE A LITTLE;that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken and snare and taken.Now the easyist way to see what im saying is to get a studie bible and read a scripture amd the the foot note that follows it will lead you to another book/chapter/scripture that relates that how i put it together.
matt 28:20 the last verse of the book; Jesus says "I will be with you till the end of days". But the jws teach that Jesus came in 1914. The bible does not lie.
If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and if you believe in your heart God raised him from the dead, then you will be saved and forgiven. If JWs believe this...but deny the diety of Christ voted into doctrine in AD 330 under Constantine...?
I don't have a clear answer. Troubling, because I've spit out my share of HATE against JWs and Mormons a long time ago. What if they're...what if they will be "in"?
and the question is is Jesus dead like the jw believe or is He alive like ALL TRUE CHRISTIANS.
the reason Jesus said y do u call me good is becos he was confirming His Godhood.think about it .was Jesus good?if only God is good and Jesus is Good then he was telling everyone in a parable manner that He was GOD
u did the apostals worship Jesus? y do the angels worship Jesus(hebrews 1:8,in all true translations other than NWT)? y must the Son be honoured LIKE THE FATHER (john 5:23)? y does God the Father call Jesus God? y can He forgive sins,y can He judge,y does He have all the same title as the Father ie SAVIOR,ROCK,ALPHA AND OMEGA,FIRST AND LAST,REDEEMER,KING...ETC?
u say that Jesus is fully divine.Divinity means Godhood which makes Jesus God by ur own words.either Jesus is 1 with God or he is another god according 2 the wt.Jesus died by his own will and rose by his own will.note that He died b4 the other 2. all i've said is scriptural
The way I understand biblical theology on the nature of Jesus Christ and his divinity is that he is deity and he is divine. Remember Jesus is the Son of God! He must have inherited Gods divinity by being a heir and Son. But that does not make him God the Father Jehovah. This doesnt mean that I believe in a Big god and lil god. Jesus is not Jehovah nor some secondary God. He shares Gods divinity but is not equal to the Father. That is why John calls him a god.
Jesus cant b both micheal the arcangle and a god .angels r not gods, so Jesus is either God (cause there is only 1) or an angel.
if He was micheal u should b praying in the name of micheal not Jesus,since u dont pray in micheals name u clearly illestrate yet another floor in jw theology.
Well Jesus cant be man and God at the same time yet that doesnt stop you from believing it. Jesus has more then one name as the scriptures show. He is Immanuel, Shiloh, the Amen, the Word, and Michael. You dont pray in the other names of Jesus do you? Most likely not. So dont attack us my friend. Jesus is not a mere angel, he is the Cheif of the Angel, the one excersing power over the rest of Gods angelic creations.
Newagegamer to Arnie365: "Jesus can't be man and God at the same time..." WHY NOT? "He is... Michael" WHERE IN THE BIBLE? "don't attack us my friend." WHERE IS HIS ATTACK? You are losing credibility over time in your stance, and your punctuation is horrible. Not to mention your "theology". I'm still praying for you, however. You are an intelligent young man, trying to be a good Watchtowerite.
no jesus christ is not a angel it says in hebrews 1:1-8 read it believe it jesus christ is much more than angels i cant believe all those bible studys and u never read this scripture it clearly says jesus christ has never been nor never will be an angel also read revelations 22:12 he clearly calls him self the first and the last tell me newagegamer who is the alpha and omega jesus or god?if you say god then jesus is god cause he calls himself that if u say its not jesus u call the word a lie um?
Newagegamer said "...He(Jesus)is deity and he is divine." "Jesus is the Son of God!" These are very powerful (and faithful) things to say. Deity means Godship; Omnipotence; Providence; But then he says "But that does not make him God the Father Jehovah." This is half true. The Bible equates Jesus with Jehovah God. They are one and the same. But, of course, Jesus the Son of God cannot be also the Father. He is the Son. The ONLY BEGOTTEN SON. Equal in Power AND Glory, thus He is God. Amen..
That's the so called trinity. This word isn't found in the entire bible, but jesus talks bout the father and the "comforter"(holy spirit) as two persons and him as the third one and on the other hand the bible points out that there's only one god and Jesus says "I am one with the FAther". So a so called "trinity" is postulated. Actually even if it is true it is still a secret.
changer01 - never does jesus say "I and the Father are ONE" "god"..they are "one" explanation is clear in John 17:21. Also your parents concieved you thus they get the title of intimacy of MOTHER and FATHER..The Holy SPirit conceived Jesus in Mary, yet you will NEVER find Jesus calling the HolySpirit FATHER. ALso notice that Jesus and the Holy SPirit do nothing without the approval of Jehovah. Yet Jehovah (Father God) does not need either to do his will. Is Jesus THE GOD? no but he is "A" GOD.
In Lk 24:36-39 and in Jn 20:26-27, Jesus showed his disciples the wounds in his body as proof of his resurrection. If Jesus' body had been destroyed by God after he died, how could Jesus show the disciples his body which had the wounds in his hands, feet, and side and claim that he is not just a spirit, "because a spirit does not have flesh and bones just as you behold that I have" (Lk 24:39)?
Jesus had obviously materialized bodies when meeting up with his apostles. And if Jesus was raised in the same body that he had sacrificed his life in, then please tell me why his mother Mary did not recognize him, why didnt the apostles recognized him when?(John 20:10-14) There are many accounts in the gospels where the diciples didnt know Jesus was near them when he was in front of there faces.
Newagegamer3018, the body was the same, if it wasnt, then he would have deceived them by using another body.. but it was in a different state - thus why it was not recognizable - his body was glorified. 1Corinthians 15 has alot of good stuff on this. it is possible to have a regular body before, then it will be raised spiritually (glorified). Pay attention that it says in verse 44 - sown naturally and IT raised spiritually (referring to the same body)
Yes his body was so glorified was that when Mary saw him she thought he was a gardner and Peter thought he was a fishermen on the beach lol Christ was ressurcted as a spirit, he materialized bodies to convince his diciples he had been raised from the dead.
so then we concede that when he showed the wounds on his body, that that body indeed was the one he had prior, there is no other way around this on that notion..the body with THE WOUNDS was the body he died in..just Glorified, he might have LOOKED different but his wound were the wonds of his death through impalement
The problem with that notion is that 1 Cor 15 says that Christians will share in the likeness of the ressurection of Christ Jesus and Paul stated that the body is raised a spiritual one! So if Christians are raised as spirits then Christ must have also been raised in the spirit as shown in 1 Peter
could be..I really dont care about this topic..on one hand you are correct but then on the other hand your not because Jesus did show his imprints of the nails to DOUBTING THOMAS..it will be awkward to have another body YET it has the imprints of the nails..I am mute to this, because its not really a big deal to me..there are many secrets that we will never be aware of. Keep the faith in GOD Jehovah..
So, you're assuming that they did not recognize Jesus with their eyes, when most likely Jesus confused their minds.
Jesus did this before when the mob of Pharisees tried to grab Him to throw Him off the cliff. Jesus confused their minds and walked right thru the mob.
Yes, Jesus was resurrected with the same body that hung on the cross, according to scripture.
Jesus was beat haft to death, His bones were out of joint,He wasn't reconizible and none of His followers expected to see Him including His followers. When God raised Jesus from the dead He must have restored his brutilized body to a point, Jesus show the disciples his body which had the wounds in his hands, feet, and side and claim that he is not just a spirit.
Newagegamer3018 ~ "And if Jesus was raised in the same body that he had sacrificed his life in, then please tell me why his mother Mary did not recognize him"
Jesus could have easily confused their MINDS so that they would not recognize Him until He was ready for them to recognize Him...
In fact, the resurrected Jesus would walk with them and question them about the events that had happened, apparently to measure their faith in what He had said to them.
Now lets look at Phili 2:5-6. JW's immediately ignore the 1st phrase, take the 2nd & say see he didnt even want to be equal w/ god, he wanted to be inferior. BUT thats not what the scripture is saying. Instead of grasping at what Jesus already had, he did something else - follow me in vs 7-8. Jesus, although he never ceased being in the form of God, at a point he emptied & humbled himself, took the form of man & funtioned perfectly as a man to buy back what Adam had lost
You quoted John 14:28. 1st we have to look at Rev 1:8 & can we say that the almighty god calls himself the alpha & omega. Ok now (making sure we read these scriptures directly in context) lets pick it up in Rev 22:12. Notice the alpha & omega identify himself as jesus. Ok lets look at the first and the last. Rev 1:13-18. who is this? Clearly its jesus christ & by his own words he is the A & O, first & last, & almighty god. CONT>>>>
In the following verses, Jesus never corrects the Jews by saying, "I did not claim to be God." That indicates Jesus was truly saying He was God by declaring, "I and the Father are one" (John 10:30).
in John 10:30, "I and the Father are one." At first glance, this might not seem to be a claim to be God. However, look at the Jews' reaction to His statement, "We are not stoning you for any of these, replied the Jews, but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God" (John 10:33). The Jews understood Jesus' statement to be a claim to be God.
But look at Jesus reponse in verse 34 and 35 in chapter 10 of John. He said that the Law states that they are all Gods! And Yes Jesus and Jehovah are one, just as the apostles were one.(John 17:11,21) And it is note worthy to point out that the Jews also charged Jesus with blasphemy and having demons, yet those charges werent true now where they?
in John 10:30, "I and the Father are one." At first glance, this might not seem to be a claim to be God. However, look at the Jews' reaction to His statement, "We are not stoning you for any of these, replied the Jews, but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God" (John 10:33). The Jews understood Jesus' statement to be a claim to be God.
on the subject of false prophets.. COOL DUDE. i love that at least you are open to this because if you talk to the elders of the congregation you can be disfellowship on this.
please go over the following watchtowers/awake on prophecies:
awake 10-8-68 pg 14
watchtower aug 8, 1968 page 498
now on the 1914 propehcies bring in
awake of oct 8, 1995, and read the excertp about "that saw the events of 1914 passes away'
go to awake nov 8,1995 (weeks later), they drop it. please pull these and read
jesuse died in the flesh but not in spirit..read john 2: 18,19. read roman 8:11 spirit of jesus raised him, read acts 5:30 GOD raises jesus..now read it again, who raised jesus. if GOD is only good, then you have to live with the fact that JESUS is NOT GOOD - jesus does not say he is not GOOD - only GOD is good. read apostle paul in 2tim 3:1-9, he is praying to GOD clearly, but yet he says 'recalling your tears when we parted"
, read john 20:28, what did thomas call jesus, MY lord and my GOD.
I made a mistake concurning Jesus and Lucifer(Mormans believe this) But there belief is that God created Michael the Archangel, through whom God later created all "other things," such as the earth, the universe, and all mankind. This process took place over exactly 42,000 years. When it was time for the birth of a savior, Michael became a man, in the form of Jesus Christ.
you have lied that you believe in the deity of Christ. It will suprise many that these people believe Jesus and Lucifer were brother and Jesus became the son of God. Just research and you will see how off the wall these are.
I challedge you to go to six screens of the watch tower. Look at the old books published by the watch tower and see the false prophecies for yourself and the distortions of the truth.
That challenge is way pass because I have been looking into the work of Mr.Rick Fearon for a while now. His website Six screens is just a dramatic site filled with misrepresentations and twisting quotes to serve his purpose. Really I have many of the older publications and I have looked it all up at my libary and at the one in the Kingdom Hall. I know the facts thank you very much.
This comment nearly gets him arrested and stoned, for such a claim was the ultimate heresey to the Jewish People. Why would Christ make such a BOLD statement otherwise if He wanted to be adament about the seperation between Him and God.
Luke 18:18, does not tell us that Jesus is denying to be God. He asks a question, "Do you know what you are implying, by calling me Good MasteR?" Nothing in there, does He claim that He is not God. Jesus Christ, is not the Father, but the Son.
What the WTBTS doesn't understand, they change. You Mekelsior, like so many JW's, put HUGE limits on GOD'S AWESOMENESS. Since you don't understand HOW Jesus could be 'God in the Flesh', you try to use 'deductive reasoning' to prove otherwise, rather than just BELIEVING THE WORD OF GOD. GOD IS GOD. He can do WHATEVER HE has to, to reach us.
Im not putting any limits on God. So I share the same oppinion as you, the only thing God cant do, is Sin. Im not trying to prove that Jesus is not God, Im trying to prove that He is. So I think you misunderstood one of my comments somewhere.
I was just sharing with a JW on a PM, that I can't believe the LIMITS you put on Jehovah God.
Almighty God is LIMITLESS. A term I hear all the time from Jehovah's Witnesses is 'deductive reasoning'. If you don't have 'deductive reasoning' for something, you just don't accept or believe it. God says LIVE BY FAITH, NOT by 'deductive reasoning.
Even in your NWT bible Isaiah9:6 it referes to Jesus as God or the "Mighty God,Eternal Fether".In Hebrews1:8 God the father says to Jesus "God is your throne forever and ever, scepter of your kingdom is the scepter of uprightness"
All through out Jesus's stay here on earth people fell down and worshiped him and I'm sure you would agree!Why then when John fell down to worship the angel in Revelation, why did the angel stop him and say stop for I am but a fellow servant as you are. so it's okay to worship Jesus but not an angel, but you say Jesus is lower then an angel? Read up on your scriptures!
Even you yourself said that Jesus was an ark angel now you say that he is lower than angels
In Revelation it says that the angels bowed down to Jesus so how is he lower then them? please pay attention to what you are saying about our lord and savior!!!
the fact of the matter is that this is an on and off battle,between trinitarian schollars and people like jason with phd's and professors that" have no religious biase",wich i like comment on as a personal preference for their neutrality.
I have heard from several in the past that Jason Debuhn was an 'occultist'. Is there any truth to this? I am just asking, as I know that Johannes Greber WAS an 'occultist', yet the WT following his writings throughout the 70's & 80's. Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong.
Keep searching Newagegamer3018; you're going to find the TRUTH. You are a VERY intelligent and well read young man. I know you believe you already have the TRUTH, but one day soon, the REAL TRUTH is going to BLOW YOUR MIND. By the way, I love reading your posts. Keep digging!
In what way is the fact that Greber was a Roman Catholic, be a benefit to the case that he is a spiritist and a paranormal source, satanism? The RCC, is as most know, filled with anti Christian doctrines. The Papacy, is itself, according to the Bible, identified as the Son of Perdition, the Anti-Christ.
...Greber was also a Roman Catholic but no one pays any attention to that
Yes Newagegamer3018, just another one of Greber's flaws. But, I have met over the past 22+ years, a number of Born Again Catholics. Catholics who 'dug deeper' into a relationship with Jesus. Eventually they left the Catholic church.
in contrast an article by george howard in march 1978 issue of biblical archeology review set forth a theory tthat yhwh appeared in the new testament and that the removal of the tetragramaton from the new test.blurred the original distinction between "the lord God" and teh "lord christ.
what mr.BEDUHN found was that there is a consistent pattern of anachronistically imposing of "modern christian views"on to the biblical text on these other translations.
well he just not think as you say,he made a through out analysis of not just the NTW,but a few others like the king james,new international version,living bible,the new american bible,and some others,yur diminishing his great work,and he considered that the NTW and the NEW AMERICAN BIBLE are the most accurate,
i belive that works and faith goes together,you can't have faith is you don't have works,and you can't have works without faith,it also matters what kind of workwe are doing,to me and i strongly believe it was the mind of our lord jesus that preaching about Gods kingdom is the most important work a man can do,the very first thing he did after he got baptized was preache the kingdom of his God,mathew4;17.
Fazelada, you've made some good points here, but I can't agree completely with you. I do agree that both 'faith' and 'works' are important; however 'works' has 'NOTHING' to do with salvation - only FAITH does. It is by "FAITH" we believe in God and are saved. As far as 'works' are concerned, we weren't all born to be preachers or teachers. If we all had the same 'gifting' we'd be nothing but robots....
the bible says and i encourage you to read the book of james,james2;17-thus,too,faith,if it does not have works,"ITS DEAD IN ITS SELF".now read james2;21-was not Abraham our father declared righteous by works after he had offered up issac his son uppon the altar?
Hey Fazelada: Thank you for your comments. You are one of the 'friendlier' JW's I've chatted with, besides my 3 college buddies.
I hear you, as far as scripture. But, when it comes to 'what to do for the Lord', I GO TO HIM in prayer. HE has given me gifts, which I use. As far as 'His calling on my life', ONLY HE KNOWS THAT. Only HE can tell me that....
now read1 thess.4;1Finally,brothersw,"REQUEST YOU AND EXORT YOU BY THE LORD JESUS,JUST AS YOU RECIEVED "THE INSTRUCTION"from us on how you ought to walk and please God,just as you are in fact walking,that you would keep on doing it more fully.2-for you know"THE ORDERS WE GAVE YOU THROUGH THE LORD JESUS.there are so many scriptures that show early christians were very organized and followed instructions from apostles and elders,so is not what i like and want to do.
JW's, do ONLY what the WATCHTOWER tells them. That's 'dictatorship', plain and simple. I ONLY do what my HEAVENLY FATHER tells me, through 'prayer'. I have NO organization telling me what to do - dictating my life to me. I follow JESUS, as the WORD clearly teaches. God gave me the GIFT of Music. That is what I teach. I SHARE the GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST when the Holy Spirit leads me to. So I WORK for Jesus, NOT the WT.
james2;24-you see that man is to be declared righteous by works,and not by faith alone.i know where you come from,believe me,i was a part of a worship group ones,i played the guitar,and even in the same group and other groups i saw jelousy,and woldly pride,and rivalry between churches,you know what i'm talking about,james chapter 3 talks about the tongue,
Nice to meet another musician. I've NEVER experienced jealousy, envy or such nonsense in any Praise/Worship group I've played in. Just Christian Love. Nor have I experienced rivalry between churches. However Fazelada, you've chosen the new path to trust the Watchtower for your spiritual growth - I just CANNOT. I respect your decision, and hope you respect mine.
thanks again,and believe me i trully respect you and your beliefs,when i comment i like to comment always with scripture ,when i can; because i believe that what i say, i have something to base my comments with,and i learned this by reading the watch tower and other publications,with an open mind.
YOU NEED SOME MEDICATION MAN...
XBAGREMX 8 months ago
and the purpose of this as if you were to prove something with wrong information. i doubt it. my paradigm will never change I am God the father(creator) created this body for my spirit but body is only a guise of sinful flesh and my spirit is contrary to my flesh so the one you see outwardly is not who my new inner man is my flesh(son) derived from my formative agent my Spirit and Father or creator is just who I am and I will be that which i will be. that I AM
Godinpersonap 8 months ago
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YOu, Oprah and the rest need help
Godinpersonap 8 months ago
YOu, Oprah and the rest needs help
Godinpersonap 8 months ago
first of all is this find scripture and debate session? and I never said i wasnt Good get revelation I said why call me GOOD WHEN BY YOUR LAW BASICALLY NONE IS GOOD BUT GOD SO WHY WOULD YOU CALL ME GOOD(knowing the law) and there are not many gods for THERE IS NO OTHER LIKE ME AND THERE IS NONE BESIDES ME
Godinpersonap 8 months ago
I know the truth you all add scriptures to even the true word of God only to have argument. For one HOW MANY VERSIONS ARE THERE OF THE BIBLE? for 2 GOD IS ONE AND I COULD CARE LESS WHAt A JEHOVAHS supposed to be witness thinks I'm CHRIST HIMSELF WHY SHOULD I DEBATE? EVERYTHING IS GOING DOWN EXCEPT THE WORD OF GOD WHO IS?
Godinpersonap 8 months ago
Mom and Dad are both parents. Both have full authority in love to guided, direct, admonish, correct, discipline, exort, rebuke, and nurture their children. Both are parents with equal authority, but the wife subjects herself to her husband as head. "I am parent, but my husband is greater than I". Study the Greek for "greater" and it's context in the verse you quote. Read parents as God in the example to help you understand the position Jesus speaks of in relation to the Father. Father/Son = God.
Moving2U 9 months ago
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pt-4 Hebrews 6 4-6 culminates explaining that if one comes to know the truth of Jesus and falls back into trusting the old ways for salvation, he will be worse off than before he learned of Jesus.
How many of your foundational "truths" need to be exposed as false, before you fearfully consent to re-examine the whole system? The bulk of JW doctrine is based on misunderstood and out of context ideas. Anything built upon it gets progressively further from the truth. God and Jesus, separate yet 1.
Moving2U 9 months ago
pt-4 Hebrews 6 4-6 culminates explaining that if one comes to know the truth of Jesus and falls back into trusting the old ways for salvation, he will be worse off than before he learned of Jesus.
How many of your foundational "truths" need to be exposed as false, before you fearfully consent to re-examine the whole system? The bulk of JW doctrine is based on misunderstood and out of context ideas. Anything built upon it gets progressively further from the truth. God and Jesus, separate yet 1.
Moving2U 9 months ago
Pt-3
Do you not understand the context of the book of Hebrews? Written to Jewish converts to Christ who have had some of their members revert BACK to trusting in the law of Moses for salvation. The whole point of the book was that Jesus was not only higher than the angels that they reverenced, but the very fulfilment of the Law and Sacrifice, why He qualified to be our great high priest and sacrificial lamb defeating death forever as opposed to the temporary annual covering of sin by the law.
Moving2U 9 months ago
Pt-2
Prooftext:
John 17:5 "Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.
You read Heb 2:7-8 as if God made (or created) Jesus to be lower in position to the angels, but Jesus is not a created being, and He (Jesus) was the one who created the angels. Read John chapter 1.
Moving2U 9 months ago
Pt-1
Heb 2:7-8 "YOU HAVE MADE HIM FOR A LITTLE WHILE LOWER THAN THE ANGELS; YOU HAVE CROWNED HIM WITH GLORY AND HONOR, AND HAVE APPOINTED HIM OVER THE WORKS OF YOUR HANDS;
8a YOU HAVE PUT ALL THINGS IN SUBJECTION UNDER HIS FEET." For in subjecting all things to him, He left nothing that is not subject to him.
God made Jesus a little lower than the angels "for a little while". I.E. When Jesus willingly stepped down from Godhood and became a man. Ever see the program "Undercover Boss"?
Moving2U 9 months ago
I love how this guy takes a scripture and acts like god said it! just because its in the bible....I think he has to realize its written by men with thousands of errors and contradictions.... Jeremiah 8:8 (King James Version) 8 “‘How can you say, “We are wise, for we have the law of the LORD,”when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?
Cousinsjay 1 year ago
How can they say their witnesses of Jehovah God when if you really live by the Bible and read on Then Jesus is God incarnate'
HEAR O ISREAL THE LORD THY GOD IS 1
it's just a "falling away" and a "twisting" of the truth
Godinpersonap 1 year ago
@Godinpersonap: Do some research on the YHWH when lord is in all caps in the Hebrew bible it's a replacement. In Psalms 110:1 You have 2 Lords
teflonfanatic 8 months ago
Both terms Son of GOD and Son Man apply to Christ- although Son of Man applies to both his Deity and humanity. As Son of Man Christ hungered, slept, wept, was thirsty, and ultimately died, but as Son of God= equal with God, John 5:18 as John's gospel declares -Christ raised his flesh from death. John 2:19-21. We have to bend our knee here a bit and realize we can't explain the mechanics of it all and we are not meant to.
42cody1 1 year ago
It was interesting, I noticed that Ho Theos statement by Newagegamer, Ho Theos to the JW, Implies and identity-namely Jehovah. Ho Theos is also applied to Christ in Matthew 1:23, John 20:28-which is a discussion in itself. Hebrews 1:8 as well. It is also applied to Christ in Titus 2:13 the great God and Savior of us, Jesus Christ. To say the Son of God doesn't mean he is God- one would also have to assume that Son of Man wouldn't mean he was a man. Which is rediculous. Love to all.
42cody1 1 year ago
get off the grass idiot, jehovas witnesses is a dangerous cult
willowjam1 1 year ago
Comment removed
HighCarro 2 years ago
Hello!
This is from Tanakh. Habakkuk 1:12
"12 Art not Thou from everlasting, O HaShem my G-d, my Holy One? we shall not die. O HaShem, Thou hast ordained them for judgment, and Thou, O Rock, hast established them for correction."
In the Jewish Scriptures it says: "we shall not die" and not "you shall not die"
HighCarro 2 years ago
@HighCarro It's a mistranslation because certain scribes considered the idea of God dying to be too offensive, so the text was changed to "we shall not die." However, it is corrected in the New JPS translation, which reads:
"You, O LORD, are from everlasting; My holy God, You never die."
tudostein 10 months ago
@HoocH65 You said you were raised a Jehovah's Witness but yet for all truth is not within you - satan was raised as God's son but yet for all he chose to disobey his father - The word was with God please explain that part of the scripture
Sheila
00sheilagreasley100 2 years ago
@HoocH65 I've just found this series of videos, so I don't know if you are still monitoring them, but I have a question for you. In Revelation 3:12 ( Red Letter Edition ), Jesus refers to HIS GOD. If Jesus IS God, why does he say he HAS a God ? I am not affiliated with the watchtower, nor any other church for that matter. I do however, read the Bible for myself, and I also think for myself. In my reading, Jesus never, ever, says out right, that he is God. I welcome your response.
phactchecker 2 years ago
only 47 seconds in and you are incorrect the J.W's believe that jesus was the arch angel MICHEAL
ilovecoheed123 2 years ago
It was protected and if you look at the dark ages - what got man OUT of the dark ages? The Bible. It was suppressed for a long time and Luther found an old Bible and translated it into German and denounced the papacy - this is what led to the papal bull calling for his head. Luther rightfully burned that papal order.
matt3i6 2 years ago
We know God is the Creator yes? God is the Creator - this is established in Genesis, Isaiah and elsewhere in Scripture - if God is the Creator and if you JW's say Jesus is not God how does John call Jesus the Creator and say "All things were made through Him" ?
Stop denying the Trinity. Watch
watch?v=tkurwEc-12M
matt3i6 2 years ago
As far as Jehovah's Witnesses you gotta see this one -
watch?v=fVHu3z30K1Y
matt3i6 2 years ago
I have an amazing man Id like everyone to know about this man has had 42 years of thorough research into religoins the occult and more his name is Jordan Maxwell and everyone should watch his seminars their on here their on google and you will learn some amazing wisdom.
essy111 3 years ago
Bill Cooper exposed some of Maxwell's errors. But the most amazing person to ever live is hands down Jesus Christ, the man-God.
Fully man - Fully God.
watch?v=tkurwEc-12M
matt3i6 2 years ago
the amazing man jesus christ was a fictional charecter based upon the movement of the sun around the equater the bible made a great story to teach people how to live better lives but it was nothing more then a great tale based on astrolagy.
essy111 2 years ago
Interesting I believe the William (Bill) Cooper exposes Jordan Maxwell videos were removed by YouTube.
The most amazing man EVER is hands down the God-man the one and only Jesus Christ.
watch?v=tkurwEc-12M
matt3i6 2 years ago
Pls watch the video The Deity of Christ in the New Testament by Droakly1689. He explained clearly from the Scripture that JESUS is GOD.
ByHimthroughHim4Him 3 years ago
The Father's name is not Jehovah.
hoogys 3 years ago
gggg
haveulovnit 3 years ago
the biblical reference 2 HIRAM in the nwt concordance clearly shows masonic association.hiram abif was an insignificante chief builder of solomens temple and does`nt really mean much 2 christians bt he is held in high regard by freemason.
I WONDER Y JW HAVE REFERENCE 2 HIS NAME???
and what about the word GRAND MASTER in hosea 12:14 and malichi 1:6
the word grand master is mainly used in 2 circles chess and FREEMASONRY!!!
y would would the wts b doing this???
arnie365 3 years ago
jw cant b taken seriously cause thier masonic beliefes show us how far they really r from the truth!! masons also believe that Jesus was not God and that the messiah was tortured on a stake,masons regard jaque de moley as thier messiah thats probably y jw emphysis the stake even though there is irreffutable proof of the cross.masons also don`t believe in the trinity and believe in the devine name jehovah. BIRDS OF A FEATHER...
arnie365 3 years ago 2
yeah you are right. I read a book about masonry and how they are related to some existing cults including JW. To deny the deity of Christ is to have a false hope in eternity. to separate Him from the Godhead makes our salvation futile and nothing. A natural fallen man can not save the world from its sins, it takes a pure mery and perfect love to accomplished it which we found in the Lord Jesus cause He came from the Father and in Him dwells the fullness of God.
ByHimthroughHim4Him 3 years ago
Continued. 1 Cor 8:6 is 100% proof that Jesus is God, he said "We have One God the Father, and One Lord Jesus Christ" thank you very much, this must mean that since he thinks that the Father is Seperate from the Son, this means that "THE FATHER IS NOT LORD"! This proves that Jesus is the Almighty again, because if Jesus is our ONLY Lord, then he has to be God, since by JW they say The Father is Also Lord, which is affirmed in Scripture(Luke 2:22) Jehovah Witnesses have very weak arguments, very!
Dejan2116 3 years ago 2
oh snap I never seen that before I will look that up Good argument...wow...
mj4lyfe101 3 years ago
Also, Colossians 1:15 is a verse falsly used by Jehovah Witnesses to somehow show that Jesus was created. This would contradict Revelation 1:17 because Jesus says there "I AM THE FIRST AND THE LAST". The God of the OT is the ONLY One that said "I am the first and the last"(Isaiah 44:6, Isaiah 48:12) Therefore Jesus was claiming to be Yahweh just there, Jesus is GOD:)!. In conclusion, Colossians 1:15 in the greek means "above all" its pre-eminence, first born of all craetion means "ABOVE ALL"
Dejan2116 3 years ago 2
Watch out people, Jehovah Witnesses always twist scripture and always show you the proof for Christs Humanity, and reject the proofs for his divinity. We as Christians know that Jesus was fully man in his human nature, and fully God in his God nature. Therefore it is the man praying to "let God's will be done" because Jesus was following the law, which says "You that hear prayer, Let ALL flesh come to you(Psalm 65:2). Therefore, Jesus was required to pray as the Second Adam, Jesus is GOD!
Dejan2116 3 years ago 2
Did you know that the NWT says that Jesus is Jehovah God? Even in the KIT pg 18,paragraph 3,4. Phil 2:11. that every tongue should confess that Jesus(Iseous)Christ(Christos) is Lord(Kurios,Kyrios=Jehovah God) to the glory of God the Father. And to that I say Amen and amen! Jesus is Jehovah God! Col 2:8,9. Bless you for trying to tell people about the WT. You are reaching folks for Christ!
sldeyo 3 years ago
This man cannot debate, he gets his information from Watchtower books such as "Should we Believe in trinity" Which I have refuted miserabely. Habakkuk 1:12 does not say what he said, he has a false translation(NWT), but let us assume that it does say God died, did the God(Deity) of Chrsit die, or did the flesh die? He said God raised him from the dead, didnt Jesus say "destroy this tmple and "I" will raise it in 3 days? Jehovah Witnesses are responsible for taking many to hell, read John 8:24).
Dejan2116 3 years ago
Blind Jehovah Witnesses, A false gospel damns the soul of man.
Dejan2116 3 years ago 2
melvyd2,
A very good point!
Translations are just that..
translations.
Worship God and His inspired and providentially preserved Word via the ORIGINAL TEXT.
2 Samuel 22:31
"As for God, his way is perfect; the word of the LORD is flawless. He is a shield for all who take refuge in him."
Worship the Messiah, Christ. He is the Almighty Jehovah.
pbar1000 3 years ago
Melvyd2,
Your heart is still hardened?
I've studied them all, they blind the world.
You speak of "The role of Satan..."
How sad....
Is this the best you have to offer?
It appears that you have more faith in your religious non-belief in Christ, than any of the faithful I have known in my lifetime.
"The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God." 2 Corinthians 4:4
pbar1000 3 years ago
melvyd2,
Myths come and go.
You CAN'T understand the Bible, yet.
"Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:" (Eph 4:18)
But that can change..
"For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." (Ro 10:13)
pbar1000 3 years ago
God inspired and providentially preserved His Word perfect via HIS promises.
"But whoso looketh into the PERFECT law of liberty, and continueth [therein], he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed." (Jas 1:25)
The Bible is infallible.
Naturalistic-exclusivite text critics come and go. It's been going on for centuries.
Their present day efforts are N/A.
pbar1000 3 years ago
What Hab 1:12 really says in the God inspired words of the Authorized Version is
[Art] thou not from everlasting, O LORD my God, mine Holy One? we shall not die. O LORD, thou hast ordained them for judgment; and, O mighty God, thou hast established them for correction.
Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
ranman17 3 years ago
read other books to find god to he's not just in your bible your so brainwashed
ReDbOAtHuNgGaR 3 years ago
do other books have 100% accurate prophecies, do they explain how the jews crosses over the red sea 2 get 2 the promised land(which is not only biblical bt also historic).wake up bro the other books r all mason deception.
ask urself y no one questions the existance of muhamed or budda,y is there such an attack on christianity.
it all boils down 2 the freemasons.they formed jehovah`s witnesses,mormons,kkk,thelema,scientology,oto,satanism and all occult.u r the brainwashed one.
arnie365 3 years ago
remember this,only ppl that r in the dark need "new light".Jesus said I am the light of the world ,he who Follows Me will NEVER B IN DARKNESS.
2 all jw pls wake up, u r decieving ppl with ur esoteric herises.
FOLLOW THE STONE(JESUS) NOT THE BUILDERS(FREEMASONS)
arnie365 3 years ago
no jesus christ is not a angel it says in hebrews 1:1-8 read it believe it jesus christ is much more than angels i cant believe all those bible studys and u never read this scripture it clearly says jesus christ has never been nor never will be a angel also read revelations 22:12 he clearly calls him self the first and the last tell me newagegamer who is the alpha and omega jesus or god? if you say god then jesus is god cause he calls himself that if u say its not jesus u call the word a lie um?
mj4lyfe101 3 years ago 2
I have a question 4 you who is the alpha and omega??? jesus or god?
mj4lyfe101 3 years ago
If jesus is not god then why did he call him self the first and the last in revelations 1:17-18 "Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades." i thought that god almighty is the first and the last some thing that is the first has no beginning which means christ was not created.. also revelations 22:13 I am the alpha and omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end
mj4lyfe101 3 years ago 2
you guys are funny even if god him self told you you wouldnt beleave its a fact that the 10 commandments came from the egyptian book of the dead im sorry you cant see the truth and im all over like god peace
ReDbOAtHuNgGaR 3 years ago
also so there was 42 commandments but i guess changed his mind and made 10 , none the less its out of the book of the dead
ReDbOAtHuNgGaR 3 years ago
...book of the dead. Written for the dead. Go blaspheme on another page, you are waisting your time here............
pbar1000 3 years ago
buddha said when men have weakness of mind they go to mountains and speak with burnning bushes, meangod was created in our image not the other way around, aslo i have a vid id like you to watch calledseven steps to self ascension, we can not take that which dose not have form and give it form thats a symbel plz check the vid, ill reseach what ever you like if youll do it for me but i hve stuide this since i was 14 im not old but ill be 30 this year. peace
ReDbOAtHuNgGaR 3 years ago
the sumerians were the 1st to tell of the story of adam,eve,the flood, tower of babel, sodom and gramora kain and able you bible is the 7 tablets of creation told in a new way were as buddhist is the tao of god not a story retold and feed to you as truth long befor the bible was here!
ReDbOAtHuNgGaR 3 years ago
u have been decieved by the masons, they r masters of deception cause there father satan lies he speakes his native tongue.
DON`T B DECIEVED JESUS IS THE WAY,THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE!!!
arnie365 3 years ago 2
i love jesus was a great man but none the less a man, are god is the creator of all you can take it how ever you like, and just becouse you or i dont beleave in something doesnt mean it isnt true, a fact is a fact and we cant change that do you beleave in the big bang or,string therey,M-therey,rencarnation,black holes,white holes,the stars ruleing your way of thinkin, time running on a loop no beginng no end reseach these things and its a fact that the summerians told eveything i said they did!
ReDbOAtHuNgGaR 3 years ago
re: ReDbOAtHuNgGaR: This guy's ALL OVER THE PLACE! NO hope, no constructive conversation, no foundation. Cult like. Eastern mysticism...been there, done that. Pure vanity.
pbar1000 3 years ago
read Zechariah 12:10 "And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son." now notice it say "the one they have pierced" how can they pierce god if he is formless and shapeless unless he was human we all know jesus was pierced in his side and that is god talking btw.
mj4lyfe101 3 years ago 2
Saintly wisdom, from 15 year old mj4lyfe101!
5 stars 4 her....
pbar1000 3 years ago
hey thanx pbar1000 it speaks of jesus christ being pierced in john 19:34 "One of the soldiers, however, pierced his side with a spear, and immediatley blood and water flowed out.
mj4lyfe101 3 years ago
Speaks volumes doesn't it? I used the same scripture on this post 1 week ago. It says a lot about the character of God, his Son, and the Spirit, keep up the Good Work.
pbar1000 3 years ago
see the diffrence between me and you is that i dont beleave in religon i beleave in god and theres nothing inbetween me and him and theres nothing i need to lead me to him buddhist is not a relgion its a way of life teaching of buddha about the tao to help you lead a life in the middle were you dont give to much or to little is the way of tao the flow of life. every thing in life is born to die and comes back as something else its god way,the sumerians made the storys of your bible
ReDbOAtHuNgGaR 3 years ago
who is ur god?
arnie365 3 years ago
red boat hung gar is the style of kung fu i studie it means tiger and crane,what do you think relgions like hindu and buddhist that dont beleave in jesus are wrong i bet you never even read and book on ither 1 if you did and were of a open mind i dout youd give me a tumb down your traped in the mind get ove jesus he came to teach us to be like him not to kiss his feet, what youll say is right ill say is wrong what i say is right you say is wrong time to look past right and wrong,i bow to no man!
ReDbOAtHuNgGaR 3 years ago
hindu`s and buddists r still in there sin cause they fail 2 acknowledge thier salvation,JESUS CHRIST!!!!!!!
AND BECAUSE THEY R IN SIN THEY R DEAD CAUSE THE PRICE OF SIN IS DEATH. THEY WILL B DEAD TILL THEY BELIVE IN JESUS AND REPENT.
arnie365 3 years ago
the bottom line is that freemasonry (the builders)is decieving the world about Jesus(the stone).ALL the following cult`s have been founded by freemasons and believe that Jesus is not GOD:jehovah`s witnesses,mormons,O.T.O,thelema,church of satan,scientology,kkk etc and all occult.
now, if birds of a feather sticK together,the company jw,s keep tells a lot about thier goal.I`M PRAYING 4 U GUYS.
arnie365 3 years ago
read the lost book of enki, or search sumerian clay tablets translated on youtube to see were the story of god comes from in the way you speak of god, nothing last forever not even the heaven that they say will, all heaven is is a place of more happyness than sarrow and hell is in the same boat the only thing that doesn't change is change it self there for thats the only thing that stays the same the soul must change to learn. so heaven cant be forever
ReDbOAtHuNgGaR 3 years ago
that is all part of the mason deception just like the tomb of jesus and his family.
arnie365 3 years ago
Attacking once again with old, worn out excuses.. Hear this one all the time. Keep in mind, I'm not attacking you. All the Bible quotes in history cannot justify the Watchtower's misleading subliminal disorientation of scripture and the TRUE NATURE of GOD and HIS CHARACTER. We pray for all the members to know His true nature.
pbar1000 3 years ago
My comments "attacking once again.." were directed to zerohero. The Utube order of appearance for comments sometimes gets mixed up.
pbar1000 3 years ago
NO moses was not an idol, i said that he was not a true god.
no He did`nt! in the niv, God said u will b LIKE god.He did`nt make him god.
pls tell me how an organization which has incorrectly interpreted ALL the prophecies concerning Jesus` return and the end times,correctly interpret any other scripture?
arnie365 3 years ago
zerohero:"none of the references that I cited were written by Jehovah's witnesses acts17:3" JW's always use this argument about quoting scripture. It's an old, ancient, worn out excuse for misleading people about the TRUE NATURE of GOD and HIS CHARACTER. Very few TRUE Christians can be decieved by the Watchtower's counterfiet Jehovah and Jesus, because they know the AUTHENTIC Lord and Savior. True Christians are free, Watchtowerites are bound by Satan through a complex system of beliefs, sadly.
pbar1000 3 years ago 2
jw`s often say that satan is also a god thus equating Jesus 2 satan instead of God the Father.
the problem with that view is that it is contrary 2 the bible cause the bible tells us that Jesus is the"KING of kings and the LORD of lords" where as satan is refered 2 as a prince.
john 5:23 tells us 2 honour Jesus LIKE the Father.
arnie365 3 years ago
well zero2hero12,if u read the verses u quoted properly u would note that in all the verses it referes 2 a lowwer case g 4 god, thus refering 2 untrue gods where as Jesus is (in ALL true interpretation) refered 2 with a capital G.
arnie365 3 years ago
zerohero, you are doing NO JUSTICE at all for the JW case with your explanation of everything and everyone being gods. Maybe this the way of JW's justifying the belief in there being 2 gods of the bible, Jesus AND Jehovah. This is EXACTLY the paradox that the Watchtower faces, and why very few TRUE believers fall for this destructive cult. Knowing the REAL JEHOVAH helps us to distinguish from the COUNTERFEIT JEHOVAH and His Christ.
pbar1000 3 years ago
i dout god had to wright a book
ReDbOAtHuNgGaR 3 years ago
Zero2hero12 - Your reply avoids my point. You are aware that the Jws teach that in 1918-1919 they had an appointment with Jesus in which they claim that they were providing proper food at the proper time. So Jesus made them in charge of all his things(Matt 24:45-47 is what they use there). Just so we are clear that in 1918-19 at that time they were teaching that Jesus came in 1874 (read that twice and check it three times) they were NOT providing the right food at the right time.
ralema567 3 years ago
youtube gorge collins on god he makes valed points.
ReDbOAtHuNgGaR 3 years ago
matt. 17:21 there nothing there in the new worlds translation but it is in the king james and sorry jesus came to teach to be like him not worship and he was not god, open your mind dont just read the bible read everything. God is in everthing not just your book and god is not a author
ReDbOAtHuNgGaR 3 years ago
ReDbOAtHuNgGaR - I see that you are saying that the New world translation's Matt 17:21 is blank(Revelation 22:19 comes to mind)[anyone taking away from the bible will have thier name removed from the book of life]. But you lost me on "read the Bible read everything, God is in everything and God is not the author."
ralema567 3 years ago
theres alots ofthings missing from there bible thats in the king james but that nither here nor there to me im buddhist, think of it this way nothing can be outside of god there for god is to be found in every thing is what i meant and any book or teaching that helps you understand god is great but dont take it as the only way forgot were but even the bible tell that you must look here and there. peace
ReDbOAtHuNgGaR 3 years ago
ReDbOAtHuNgGaR, wow...I had to copy/paste that nickname! I had to laugh out loud (not at you), but at what you said: "...even the bible tells that you must look here and there." Could you tell us, where in the Holy Bible does it say "you must look here and there."? Jehovah tells us we must not look elsewhere: "They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him... (cont.)
pbar1000 3 years ago
...as one grieves for a firstborn son." Zechariah 12;10 Now... tell me. Where does he want us to look? Show me a scripture, please? For those who are anti-trinitarian and deny Christ, here's the WHOLE verse: "And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son." Peace
pbar1000 3 years ago
isaiah 28:13, but i guess it depends how you interpet it but its- but the word of the lord was onto them precept upon precept,precept upon percept; line upon line,line upon line;HERE A LITTLE,AND THERE A LITTLE;that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken and snare and taken.Now the easyist way to see what im saying is to get a studie bible and read a scripture amd the the foot note that follows it will lead you to another book/chapter/scripture that relates that how i put it together.
ReDbOAtHuNgGaR 3 years ago
matt 28:20 the last verse of the book; Jesus says "I will be with you till the end of days". But the jws teach that Jesus came in 1914. The bible does not lie.
ralema567 3 years ago
If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and if you believe in your heart God raised him from the dead, then you will be saved and forgiven. If JWs believe this...but deny the diety of Christ voted into doctrine in AD 330 under Constantine...?
I don't have a clear answer. Troubling, because I've spit out my share of HATE against JWs and Mormons a long time ago. What if they're...what if they will be "in"?
mowriter 3 years ago
Ur sexy
prophetofdoom 3 years ago
ACCORDING 2 THE BIBLE Y WAS THE TOMB EMPTY?
only biblical references please.
and the question is is Jesus dead like the jw believe or is He alive like ALL TRUE CHRISTIANS.
the reason Jesus said y do u call me good is becos he was confirming His Godhood.think about it .was Jesus good?if only God is good and Jesus is Good then he was telling everyone in a parable manner that He was GOD
arnie365 3 years ago
u did the apostals worship Jesus? y do the angels worship Jesus(hebrews 1:8,in all true translations other than NWT)? y must the Son be honoured LIKE THE FATHER (john 5:23)? y does God the Father call Jesus God? y can He forgive sins,y can He judge,y does He have all the same title as the Father ie SAVIOR,ROCK,ALPHA AND OMEGA,FIRST AND LAST,REDEEMER,KING...ETC?
arnie365 3 years ago
u say that Jesus is fully divine.Divinity means Godhood which makes Jesus God by ur own words.either Jesus is 1 with God or he is another god according 2 the wt.Jesus died by his own will and rose by his own will.note that He died b4 the other 2. all i've said is scriptural
arnie365 3 years ago
The way I understand biblical theology on the nature of Jesus Christ and his divinity is that he is deity and he is divine. Remember Jesus is the Son of God! He must have inherited Gods divinity by being a heir and Son. But that does not make him God the Father Jehovah. This doesnt mean that I believe in a Big god and lil god. Jesus is not Jehovah nor some secondary God. He shares Gods divinity but is not equal to the Father. That is why John calls him a god.
Newagegamer3018 3 years ago
Jesus cant b both micheal the arcangle and a god .angels r not gods, so Jesus is either God (cause there is only 1) or an angel.
if He was micheal u should b praying in the name of micheal not Jesus,since u dont pray in micheals name u clearly illestrate yet another floor in jw theology.
arnie365 3 years ago
Well Jesus cant be man and God at the same time yet that doesnt stop you from believing it. Jesus has more then one name as the scriptures show. He is Immanuel, Shiloh, the Amen, the Word, and Michael. You dont pray in the other names of Jesus do you? Most likely not. So dont attack us my friend. Jesus is not a mere angel, he is the Cheif of the Angel, the one excersing power over the rest of Gods angelic creations.
Newagegamer3018 3 years ago
Newagegamer to Arnie365: "Jesus can't be man and God at the same time..." WHY NOT? "He is... Michael" WHERE IN THE BIBLE? "don't attack us my friend." WHERE IS HIS ATTACK? You are losing credibility over time in your stance, and your punctuation is horrible. Not to mention your "theology". I'm still praying for you, however. You are an intelligent young man, trying to be a good Watchtowerite.
pbar1000 3 years ago
i reiterate pbar 1000, y can`t Jesus b God and man?
i`m not attacking u i`m trying 2 open ur eyes 2 the REAL salvation,Jesus .
hebrews 1:6 ...let ALL Gods Angels worship (not pay obasence) Him( Jesus).
that would include Micheal the archangel or chief as u call him.
arnie365 3 years ago
no jesus christ is not a angel it says in hebrews 1:1-8 read it believe it jesus christ is much more than angels i cant believe all those bible studys and u never read this scripture it clearly says jesus christ has never been nor never will be an angel also read revelations 22:12 he clearly calls him self the first and the last tell me newagegamer who is the alpha and omega jesus or god?if you say god then jesus is god cause he calls himself that if u say its not jesus u call the word a lie um?
mj4lyfe101 3 years ago
Newagegamer said "...He(Jesus)is deity and he is divine." "Jesus is the Son of God!" These are very powerful (and faithful) things to say. Deity means Godship; Omnipotence; Providence; But then he says "But that does not make him God the Father Jehovah." This is half true. The Bible equates Jesus with Jehovah God. They are one and the same. But, of course, Jesus the Son of God cannot be also the Father. He is the Son. The ONLY BEGOTTEN SON. Equal in Power AND Glory, thus He is God. Amen..
pbar1000 3 years ago
Are africans welcome in your church?
ukidding 3 years ago
Of course, most member of my congregation are actually black.
Newagegamer3018 3 years ago
That's the so called trinity. This word isn't found in the entire bible, but jesus talks bout the father and the "comforter"(holy spirit) as two persons and him as the third one and on the other hand the bible points out that there's only one god and Jesus says "I am one with the FAther". So a so called "trinity" is postulated. Actually even if it is true it is still a secret.
Changer01 4 years ago
changer01 - never does jesus say "I and the Father are ONE" "god"..they are "one" explanation is clear in John 17:21. Also your parents concieved you thus they get the title of intimacy of MOTHER and FATHER..The Holy SPirit conceived Jesus in Mary, yet you will NEVER find Jesus calling the HolySpirit FATHER. ALso notice that Jesus and the Holy SPirit do nothing without the approval of Jehovah. Yet Jehovah (Father God) does not need either to do his will. Is Jesus THE GOD? no but he is "A" GOD.
rhdtv2002 3 years ago
Hey newagegamer3018
check out bible-truthsdotcome..you might actually enjoy this
rhdtv2002 4 years ago
In Lk 24:36-39 and in Jn 20:26-27, Jesus showed his disciples the wounds in his body as proof of his resurrection. If Jesus' body had been destroyed by God after he died, how could Jesus show the disciples his body which had the wounds in his hands, feet, and side and claim that he is not just a spirit, "because a spirit does not have flesh and bones just as you behold that I have" (Lk 24:39)?
bobjbush 4 years ago
Jesus had obviously materialized bodies when meeting up with his apostles. And if Jesus was raised in the same body that he had sacrificed his life in, then please tell me why his mother Mary did not recognize him, why didnt the apostles recognized him when?(John 20:10-14) There are many accounts in the gospels where the diciples didnt know Jesus was near them when he was in front of there faces.
Newagegamer3018 4 years ago
Newagegamer3018, the body was the same, if it wasnt, then he would have deceived them by using another body.. but it was in a different state - thus why it was not recognizable - his body was glorified. 1Corinthians 15 has alot of good stuff on this. it is possible to have a regular body before, then it will be raised spiritually (glorified). Pay attention that it says in verse 44 - sown naturally and IT raised spiritually (referring to the same body)
rhdtv2002 4 years ago
Yes his body was so glorified was that when Mary saw him she thought he was a gardner and Peter thought he was a fishermen on the beach lol Christ was ressurcted as a spirit, he materialized bodies to convince his diciples he had been raised from the dead.
Newagegamer3018 4 years ago
so then we concede that when he showed the wounds on his body, that that body indeed was the one he had prior, there is no other way around this on that notion..the body with THE WOUNDS was the body he died in..just Glorified, he might have LOOKED different but his wound were the wonds of his death through impalement
rhdtv2002 4 years ago
The problem with that notion is that 1 Cor 15 says that Christians will share in the likeness of the ressurection of Christ Jesus and Paul stated that the body is raised a spiritual one! So if Christians are raised as spirits then Christ must have also been raised in the spirit as shown in 1 Peter
Newagegamer3018 3 years ago
could be..I really dont care about this topic..on one hand you are correct but then on the other hand your not because Jesus did show his imprints of the nails to DOUBTING THOMAS..it will be awkward to have another body YET it has the imprints of the nails..I am mute to this, because its not really a big deal to me..there are many secrets that we will never be aware of. Keep the faith in GOD Jehovah..
rhdtv2002 3 years ago
so what do spirits look like?
or souls?
does caspar the ghost get included?
or only religious spooks?
ukidding 3 years ago
So, you're assuming that they did not recognize Jesus with their eyes, when most likely Jesus confused their minds.
Jesus did this before when the mob of Pharisees tried to grab Him to throw Him off the cliff. Jesus confused their minds and walked right thru the mob.
Yes, Jesus was resurrected with the same body that hung on the cross, according to scripture.
GENE888 4 years ago
Jesus was beat haft to death, His bones were out of joint,He wasn't reconizible and none of His followers expected to see Him including His followers. When God raised Jesus from the dead He must have restored his brutilized body to a point, Jesus show the disciples his body which had the wounds in his hands, feet, and side and claim that he is not just a spirit.
bobjbush 4 years ago
Newagegamer3018 ~ "And if Jesus was raised in the same body that he had sacrificed his life in, then please tell me why his mother Mary did not recognize him"
Jesus could have easily confused their MINDS so that they would not recognize Him until He was ready for them to recognize Him...
In fact, the resurrected Jesus would walk with them and question them about the events that had happened, apparently to measure their faith in what He had said to them.
GENE888 4 years ago
Now lets look at Phili 2:5-6. JW's immediately ignore the 1st phrase, take the 2nd & say see he didnt even want to be equal w/ god, he wanted to be inferior. BUT thats not what the scripture is saying. Instead of grasping at what Jesus already had, he did something else - follow me in vs 7-8. Jesus, although he never ceased being in the form of God, at a point he emptied & humbled himself, took the form of man & funtioned perfectly as a man to buy back what Adam had lost
live4him2269 4 years ago
You quoted John 14:28. 1st we have to look at Rev 1:8 & can we say that the almighty god calls himself the alpha & omega. Ok now (making sure we read these scriptures directly in context) lets pick it up in Rev 22:12. Notice the alpha & omega identify himself as jesus. Ok lets look at the first and the last. Rev 1:13-18. who is this? Clearly its jesus christ & by his own words he is the A & O, first & last, & almighty god. CONT>>>>
live4him2269 4 years ago
In the following verses, Jesus never corrects the Jews by saying, "I did not claim to be God." That indicates Jesus was truly saying He was God by declaring, "I and the Father are one" (John 10:30).
bobjbush 4 years ago
in John 10:30, "I and the Father are one." At first glance, this might not seem to be a claim to be God. However, look at the Jews' reaction to His statement, "We are not stoning you for any of these, replied the Jews, but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God" (John 10:33). The Jews understood Jesus' statement to be a claim to be God.
bobjbush 4 years ago
But look at Jesus reponse in verse 34 and 35 in chapter 10 of John. He said that the Law states that they are all Gods! And Yes Jesus and Jehovah are one, just as the apostles were one.(John 17:11,21) And it is note worthy to point out that the Jews also charged Jesus with blasphemy and having demons, yet those charges werent true now where they?
Newagegamer3018 4 years ago
in John 10:30, "I and the Father are one." At first glance, this might not seem to be a claim to be God. However, look at the Jews' reaction to His statement, "We are not stoning you for any of these, replied the Jews, but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God" (John 10:33). The Jews understood Jesus' statement to be a claim to be God.
bobjbush 4 years ago
on the subject of false prophets.. COOL DUDE. i love that at least you are open to this because if you talk to the elders of the congregation you can be disfellowship on this.
please go over the following watchtowers/awake on prophecies:
awake 10-8-68 pg 14
watchtower aug 8, 1968 page 498
now on the 1914 propehcies bring in
awake of oct 8, 1995, and read the excertp about "that saw the events of 1914 passes away'
go to awake nov 8,1995 (weeks later), they drop it. please pull these and read
rhdtv2002 4 years ago
who raised jesus from the dead:
1 thes 1;10 or acts 5:30 - jehovah - we agree
john 2:18,19 - jesus raises himself
romans 8;11 - who raise jesus - the spirit of jesus
if Jehovah raised jesus, and jesus raised himself and the spirt of jehovah is the holy spirit, and the spirit of jesus raised himself, then what.
please do not ignore I AM..John 5:17,18, if he did not claim to be GOD, as defined by the reaction of the jews, then why did he NOT rebuke it
rhdtv2002 4 years ago
jesuse died in the flesh but not in spirit..read john 2: 18,19. read roman 8:11 spirit of jesus raised him, read acts 5:30 GOD raises jesus..now read it again, who raised jesus. if GOD is only good, then you have to live with the fact that JESUS is NOT GOOD - jesus does not say he is not GOOD - only GOD is good. read apostle paul in 2tim 3:1-9, he is praying to GOD clearly, but yet he says 'recalling your tears when we parted"
, read john 20:28, what did thomas call jesus, MY lord and my GOD.
rhdtv2002 4 years ago
I made a mistake concurning Jesus and Lucifer(Mormans believe this) But there belief is that God created Michael the Archangel, through whom God later created all "other things," such as the earth, the universe, and all mankind. This process took place over exactly 42,000 years. When it was time for the birth of a savior, Michael became a man, in the form of Jesus Christ.
bobjbush 4 years ago
you have lied that you believe in the deity of Christ. It will suprise many that these people believe Jesus and Lucifer were brother and Jesus became the son of God. Just research and you will see how off the wall these are.
bobjbush 4 years ago
I challedge you to go to six screens of the watch tower. Look at the old books published by the watch tower and see the false prophecies for yourself and the distortions of the truth.
bobjbush 4 years ago
That challenge is way pass because I have been looking into the work of Mr.Rick Fearon for a while now. His website Six screens is just a dramatic site filled with misrepresentations and twisting quotes to serve his purpose. Really I have many of the older publications and I have looked it all up at my libary and at the one in the Kingdom Hall. I know the facts thank you very much.
Newagegamer3018 4 years ago
John 10:30 The Father and I are ONE.
This comment nearly gets him arrested and stoned, for such a claim was the ultimate heresey to the Jewish People. Why would Christ make such a BOLD statement otherwise if He wanted to be adament about the seperation between Him and God.
mitchkramah 4 years ago
Luke 18:18, does not tell us that Jesus is denying to be God. He asks a question, "Do you know what you are implying, by calling me Good MasteR?" Nothing in there, does He claim that He is not God. Jesus Christ, is not the Father, but the Son.
God Bless.
Mekelsior 4 years ago
What the WTBTS doesn't understand, they change. You Mekelsior, like so many JW's, put HUGE limits on GOD'S AWESOMENESS. Since you don't understand HOW Jesus could be 'God in the Flesh', you try to use 'deductive reasoning' to prove otherwise, rather than just BELIEVING THE WORD OF GOD. GOD IS GOD. He can do WHATEVER HE has to, to reach us.
smitty747 4 years ago
Im not putting any limits on God. So I share the same oppinion as you, the only thing God cant do, is Sin. Im not trying to prove that Jesus is not God, Im trying to prove that He is. So I think you misunderstood one of my comments somewhere.
God Bless.
Mekelsior 4 years ago
Yes, brother, my sincere apologies. I did misunderstand one of your comments:
...Jesus Christ, is not the Father, but the Son.
This is what confused me. I'm sure just a misprint, from typing too fast. I do it myself.
God Bless...
smitty747 4 years ago
I was just sharing with a JW on a PM, that I can't believe the LIMITS you put on Jehovah God.
Almighty God is LIMITLESS. A term I hear all the time from Jehovah's Witnesses is 'deductive reasoning'. If you don't have 'deductive reasoning' for something, you just don't accept or believe it. God says LIVE BY FAITH, NOT by 'deductive reasoning.
smitty747 4 years ago
Great witness for the truth and excellent usage of Scriptures. Keep up the fine witnessing work Brother. Eph 4:5 and 6
yanniaspro 4 years ago
The play list will be titled "Is Jesus God?"
and no I did not make these videos. But there info is relivent and true you can find it in your bible and in the KJV
nthnwebb28 4 years ago
And in Revelation 1:7-8 Jesus is referred to as Jehovah. Because you do know that Jesus is the one comming in the clowds on jugement day
right? let me know I am making a play list for you on my page with someone who can better explain. BE BLESSED!!!
nthnwebb28 4 years ago
Even in your NWT bible Isaiah9:6 it referes to Jesus as God or the "Mighty God,Eternal Fether".In Hebrews1:8 God the father says to Jesus "God is your throne forever and ever, scepter of your kingdom is the scepter of uprightness"
nthnwebb28 4 years ago
All through out Jesus's stay here on earth people fell down and worshiped him and I'm sure you would agree!Why then when John fell down to worship the angel in Revelation, why did the angel stop him and say stop for I am but a fellow servant as you are. so it's okay to worship Jesus but not an angel, but you say Jesus is lower then an angel? Read up on your scriptures!
nthnwebb28 4 years ago
Even you yourself said that Jesus was an ark angel now you say that he is lower than angels
In Revelation it says that the angels bowed down to Jesus so how is he lower then them? please pay attention to what you are saying about our lord and savior!!!
nthnwebb28 4 years ago
the fact of the matter is that this is an on and off battle,between trinitarian schollars and people like jason with phd's and professors that" have no religious biase",wich i like comment on as a personal preference for their neutrality.
fazelada 4 years ago
I have heard from several in the past that Jason Debuhn was an 'occultist'. Is there any truth to this? I am just asking, as I know that Johannes Greber WAS an 'occultist', yet the WT following his writings throughout the 70's & 80's. Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong.
smitty747 4 years ago
Greber was also a Roman Catholic but no one pays any attention to that
Newagegamer3018 4 years ago
Keep searching Newagegamer3018; you're going to find the TRUTH. You are a VERY intelligent and well read young man. I know you believe you already have the TRUTH, but one day soon, the REAL TRUTH is going to BLOW YOUR MIND. By the way, I love reading your posts. Keep digging!
smitty747 4 years ago
In what way is the fact that Greber was a Roman Catholic, be a benefit to the case that he is a spiritist and a paranormal source, satanism? The RCC, is as most know, filled with anti Christian doctrines. The Papacy, is itself, according to the Bible, identified as the Son of Perdition, the Anti-Christ.
God Bless.
Mekelsior 4 years ago
...Greber was also a Roman Catholic but no one pays any attention to that
Yes Newagegamer3018, just another one of Greber's flaws. But, I have met over the past 22+ years, a number of Born Again Catholics. Catholics who 'dug deeper' into a relationship with Jesus. Eventually they left the Catholic church.
smitty747 4 years ago
in contrast an article by george howard in march 1978 issue of biblical archeology review set forth a theory tthat yhwh appeared in the new testament and that the removal of the tetragramaton from the new test.blurred the original distinction between "the lord God" and teh "lord christ.
fazelada 4 years ago
what mr.BEDUHN found was that there is a consistent pattern of anachronistically imposing of "modern christian views"on to the biblical text on these other translations.
fazelada 4 years ago
well he just not think as you say,he made a through out analysis of not just the NTW,but a few others like the king james,new international version,living bible,the new american bible,and some others,yur diminishing his great work,and he considered that the NTW and the NEW AMERICAN BIBLE are the most accurate,
fazelada 4 years ago
i belive that works and faith goes together,you can't have faith is you don't have works,and you can't have works without faith,it also matters what kind of workwe are doing,to me and i strongly believe it was the mind of our lord jesus that preaching about Gods kingdom is the most important work a man can do,the very first thing he did after he got baptized was preache the kingdom of his God,mathew4;17.
fazelada 4 years ago
Fazelada, you've made some good points here, but I can't agree completely with you. I do agree that both 'faith' and 'works' are important; however 'works' has 'NOTHING' to do with salvation - only FAITH does. It is by "FAITH" we believe in God and are saved. As far as 'works' are concerned, we weren't all born to be preachers or teachers. If we all had the same 'gifting' we'd be nothing but robots....
smitty747 4 years ago
the bible says and i encourage you to read the book of james,james2;17-thus,too,faith,if it does not have works,"ITS DEAD IN ITS SELF".now read james2;21-was not Abraham our father declared righteous by works after he had offered up issac his son uppon the altar?
fazelada 4 years ago
Hey Fazelada: Thank you for your comments. You are one of the 'friendlier' JW's I've chatted with, besides my 3 college buddies.
I hear you, as far as scripture. But, when it comes to 'what to do for the Lord', I GO TO HIM in prayer. HE has given me gifts, which I use. As far as 'His calling on my life', ONLY HE KNOWS THAT. Only HE can tell me that....
smitty747 4 years ago
now read1 thess.4;1Finally,brothersw,"REQUEST YOU AND EXORT YOU BY THE LORD JESUS,JUST AS YOU RECIEVED "THE INSTRUCTION"from us on how you ought to walk and please God,just as you are in fact walking,that you would keep on doing it more fully.2-for you know"THE ORDERS WE GAVE YOU THROUGH THE LORD JESUS.there are so many scriptures that show early christians were very organized and followed instructions from apostles and elders,so is not what i like and want to do.
fazelada 4 years ago
JW's, do ONLY what the WATCHTOWER tells them. That's 'dictatorship', plain and simple. I ONLY do what my HEAVENLY FATHER tells me, through 'prayer'. I have NO organization telling me what to do - dictating my life to me. I follow JESUS, as the WORD clearly teaches. God gave me the GIFT of Music. That is what I teach. I SHARE the GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST when the Holy Spirit leads me to. So I WORK for Jesus, NOT the WT.
smitty747 4 years ago
james2;24-you see that man is to be declared righteous by works,and not by faith alone.i know where you come from,believe me,i was a part of a worship group ones,i played the guitar,and even in the same group and other groups i saw jelousy,and woldly pride,and rivalry between churches,you know what i'm talking about,james chapter 3 talks about the tongue,
fazelada 4 years ago
Nice to meet another musician. I've NEVER experienced jealousy, envy or such nonsense in any Praise/Worship group I've played in. Just Christian Love. Nor have I experienced rivalry between churches. However Fazelada, you've chosen the new path to trust the Watchtower for your spiritual growth - I just CANNOT. I respect your decision, and hope you respect mine.
smitty747 4 years ago
thanks again,and believe me i trully respect you and your beliefs,when i comment i like to comment always with scripture ,when i can; because i believe that what i say, i have something to base my comments with,and i learned this by reading the watch tower and other publications,with an open mind.
fazelada 4 years ago