Richard Saunders: Water Divining Test

[TemplarX2]

He ruined the entire experiment by placing another bottle nearby. What an idiot?

[robvlob]

That double blind study was flawed since he inadvertently pointed toward the box that the bottle was under @ 9:40.

[charlie123abc360]

At 9:40 he points at it...

[charlie123abc360]

To test this, the diviner should not know where the water is.

[compactdisk2]

@charlie123abc360 Duh... did you watch the whole video? This is explaining a simple test you can teach to school kids, first they do a few demonstrations to explain the concept, and they finish off with a blind test.

[charlie123abc360]

@compactdisk2 Don't speak to me like that you rude, horrible person. I was just pointing out the this is not a scientific test, because many will assume that after watching this video.

[TheCaptainSlappy]

Is this the same science that still cannot explain the magic of both gravity and electricity? I do believe so....how interesting, who then, is the real huckster here? There is a difference, nobody pays a "Scientific Skeptic" to find anything, but Oil, Gas and Water companies do pay dowsers....who find water, oil and gas...and dowsers who are "fake" get paid for real world results. So much for "empirical science", you will find it is the same magic as everything else.

[dposton70]

@TheCaptainSlappy: It's the same science that's placed men on the moon, tracks planes and deadly storms with invisible rays (RADAR), save lives, feeds billions of people, and give you 24/7 access to the best (and worse) porn ever conceived!

Science doesn't have all the answers, but it works!

Dowsers have been proven, time and time again, to be fakes.

[johnsujith12]

one Statement.... Dowsing works.. and i have seen it doin wonders.... Dowsing is NOT a stage program .. thousands of viewers have their thoughts n energy effectin the dowsing tool.... Too bad few PEOPLE do not understand this....

[winterstellar]

@johnsujith12 If you know a "dowser" who's not a con-man or deluded, then tell him about the big money prizes that skeptics across the world offer to anyone who can prove it.. You know, the prices that have been up for grabs for most of the previous century and all of this century? I'm sure they can prove it in an environment with fewer "negative skeptics" too!!! : )

[dposton70]

@johnsujith12 : Bring me a single dowser who can find *anything* more times than per chance, and I'll make them a million dollars richer. Seriously.

Hell, if any dowser could prove that they can actually do what they claim with *hard data* (not just selection bias and lies), they'd make billions.

[johnsujith12]

@dposton70 I know for few a 'hard data' is required.. Let me tell you a real dowser will never use their skill as a public entertainment. They will never do that.. i bet . I was just like you all..until i saw that these work with my own house.. not only me.. my parents n my sis.. they all were amazed..

[dposton70]

@johnsujith12 I guess it depends on who you consider to be a "real dowser". Plenty of dowser do shows for the public and some of them are 'respected professionals' (e.g. they make a living dowsing).

[dposton70]

@johnsujith12

As far as 'hard data' vs. 'seeing it for yourself': I'm not going to tell you what to beleive. Everybody is entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts. And the facts are, nobody has shown that dowsing works (yet billions of dollars, and some lives, are put at risk by fools with bent wire).

[johnsujith12]

@dposton70 i wish to share my story , but this is public . I wouldn't disagree with you too.But i would like you to investigate more.. i mean just you alone. Leave the stage performances, the shows , etc. You try to meet a dowser and try stuffs.

[cusack171]

Another test would be to fill the bottle with vodka, without telling anyone...then see what happens.

[kookyuke]

Maybe this "experiment" is more flawed more than they believe. Is the distance between the boxes sufficient?? Does the process rely on flow of water?? Is it fair to test a "beginner"? As the process is natural, maybe it only works in nature? I am not sold on divining but I think this "sideshow" science aint much better! I must admit though it was entertaining to watch.

[AnotherRationalist]

@kookyuke So what is it about the setup here that isn't part of 'nature'?

[kookyuke]

@AnotherRationalist

The building, boxes, water bottles etc are man made?....but aside from this I think the other aspects of the experiment eg. distance between bottles, amount of water etc may be an issue as the minute amount of water and distance between boxes is not sufficient to mimic what happens out "in the field". Also the amount of trials is not sufficient to make this bona fide "science". This checks in a limited way the ability to divine a small bottle in a box and by amateurs!

[AnotherRationalist]

@kookyuke So since when have humans, buildings, boxes, water bottles etc not been part of nature? There is no scientific distinction between human-synthesised objects and those produced by other processes. Matter is matter, no matter (sorry, pun not intended) where it's been.

[kookyuke]

@AnotherRationalist

....and yet we get a small bit of this matter....eg. a photon and it is suddenly a wave not matter, until we observe it then it is matter again....Matter is full of wonder and it behaves in interesting different ways. I hope you are not trying to tell me it is all the same?? The quantum physics reality (wave particle duality) was never dreamed of in early physics....who is to say that matter created in nature (not by man) posesses qualities we are not aware of?

[AnotherRationalist]

@kookyuke

Light is never matter. You can use a particle (photons) or a wave model, but neither are matter.

The matter in buildings, water bottles etc is no different from the matter in rivers, aardvarks, zooplankton etc. None of it is 'created by man' - it was created in the Big Bang and the interiors of stars. All matter is able to undergo physical, chemical changes. It's the same matter at the end as it was at the start. So human-made stuff is no different from 'natural' stuff.

[kookyuke]

@AnotherRationalist

Electrons have mass, they are particles and are part of matter and are also waves and energy (e=mc ^2). Anyway getting away from the quantum physics that rattles your material realist "cage". You haven't answered my original criticism of the experiment...boxes so close makes it hard to discern choice of box eg. box 1 might be box 2?? The diviner might need to be a practiced adherent?

[kookyuke]

@kookyuke

As the force at play is hereto unknown it may be effected by being constrained in plastic or might need flowing water, you would have to see if theses things change your results. Your sample set is too low. More questions: Can anything that yields results that are not repeatable but never the less happens (miracles, spontaneous events in nature etc) be proven by science?

Can science/rationalism prove it can prove everything?

[AnotherRationalist]

@kookyuke

Yes, electrons can be considered as waves - matter waves. It doesn't change the fact that there's no such thing as 'man-made' matter.. Quantum physics may be hard to understand, but it is a consistent scientific system. Anyone can't just claim that any weird idea they come up with is vaild because of quantum theory.

Your original criticisms are quite valid. The experimental setup could be improved- after all, it's just a demo. You might like to look at Randi's Australian video.

[kookyuke]

@AnotherRationalist

I did look at the Randi experiment, the participants agreed with the conditions and were experienced dowsers but I'm still troubled by the "setting". Getting away from that I would like to know are you only prepared to believe in things proved by science. Can anything that yields results that are not repeatable but never the less happens (miracles, spontaneous events etc) be proven by science?

Can science/rationalism prove it can prove everything?



[AnotherRationalist]

@kookyuke

First, science can't, and doesn't claim to, 'prove' anything. Second, I don't 'believe' in the outcomes of scientific trials - I accept what the evidence demonstrates. I have never seen any evidence for miracles or 'spontaneous events', whatever they are.

[kookyuke]

@AnotherRationalist

So what then is "scientific proof"? You will never see evidence because "the thinker in you thinks these things can't happen and the prover in you proves it so".... If a friend is in need and you dream of that person thet very night....coincidence! If you are terminally ill and suddenly ok....lucky! If you see a paranormal event....the wind.....trick of the light....etc. Have you looked at case studies for Lourdes? Tried past life regression? Meditated? :)

[AnotherRationalist]

@kookyuke

Checkmate!

[kookyuke]

@AnotherRationalist

yes.....for all of us !

[kringle02]

It does realy work try it if you no were a water line is buried try it and see i would have never belived it i dont no about water bottles but a water line it does work

[AnotherRationalist]

@kringle02 No, it doesn't really work. Dick Smith and James Randi organised a test on running water in 1980. The diviners failed. Watch the "James Randi in Australia Testing Dowsers clips or read about it on the Australian Skeptics website.

[AnotherRationalist]

@kringle02 No, it doesn't really work. Dick Smith and James Randi organised a test on running water in 1980. The diviners failed. Watch the "James Randi in Australia Testing Dowsers" clips or read about it on the Australian Skeptics website.

[castellp]

people are 70% water right. so that means the host is 70% water himself. why does the diviner only point at the water bottle.

[LAnonHubbard]

4:09 I think he wanted a peck on the lips :)

Great to teach the kids about these types of tests!!

[receiptexpires]

There was a water bottle under the podium 06:40; it was there the whole time during the testing. Why didn't any of the divining rods narrow in on that one?

[pastafazooola]

And the water bottle, once revealed, remained on the table for the rest of the experiment.

And what about all those watery people around?

[goldman8073]

I would welcome a scientific test with sensible people who are open to learn why there is a reaction at all. As previously stated, I do not understand why it works and would welcome sensible input to discover why there is a reaction at all. From a lot of years of experience I understand there is a correlation with underground water, but why, is a mystery. I note several comments made here are made by people who have no idea at all. At least I made the effort to learn.

[steveo3141]

the tracking of water thru this method or something similar is i think because water has such a strong intermolecular force. it has a hydrogen bond and if you use a copper rod it may effect the valence electrons in a way that they want to align themselves with the forces of the water. thats my best guess, haven't really looked it up but it sounds plausible since i've done this before alot.

[pastafazooola]

Guessing is good science, well done.

[asellers98]

The water by the podium should be moved to be more effective at disproving.

[receiptexpires]

@asellers98 I think it was effective at disproving. Notice none of the divining rods pointed towards that water bottle at any point in the test. It wasn't found until the end of the test and one of the people in the test found it after fooling around. However, I totaly agree with you on the fact that they should have removed it. If you take a look, take by take, you can see the person's slight movements between [his discovery of bottle] 06:29 - 06:45 [and munipulation of rod].

[SirFoggy2Doped]

@receiptexpires Also three and four are close enough to each other that it disproves nothing...

If they want to make a real case then the bottle should've been placed well away from where it previously was;)

[goldman8073]

Water divining does not work like that. It is utter stupidity to carry out a so called test like this. I have done water divining for over 40 years and most bore drillers use water diviners. I have found lost bores. I use a poplar twig as there is more feeling and reaction. Why it works I do not know, but close to one in 5 people can actually get a reaction. It is  developing the skill like anything else. Some never learn anything and others become quite skilled.

[rootytuners]

Please, please, please drop a note to the James Randi. He will give you $1million bucks if you can do it!

As JR says, if you can do it, it'll be worth a million bucks to see such a wondrous thing. Trouble is, when the tests are done in a mutually agreed 'fair' test, it never, ever, ever works.

Earn yourself a fortune and enlighten mankind at the same time. What's holding you back?

[JoeSixString]

"Water divining does not work", that's the only true part of your post.

[pastafazooola]

How have you kept up the steady stream of suckers for 40 years? Now that's a skill that few can master!

[Jellogel]

He hee, lol at freakzone, what's a tosser?

[area51freakzone]

This guy is a total wanker, who bignotes himself on his intellect (which is a pretty stupid thing to do). The only divining he is good at is with his own skin rod, which is usually bent up his ass anyway. What a tosser. Quit with the BS and explain the science properly, statistically and analytically. Loser.

[mrbluesky323]

Oh yea, definitely. He should bring up all his scientific tests and analyses that he did to disprove DIVINING rods.... Because they really need disproving.

[pastafazooola]

Yeah, bignoting yourself on your intellect is bad because being stupid is good. Stupid put men on the moon, I tell you!

[bgzkinsella]

Why doesn't the rod turn when he walks past the water bottle he found the last 2 times he did it?

[Clarkusindarkus1985]

I tried this once on my grandfather's farm. Using one metal rod in each hand, they both turned inwards towards each other when over water. I tried it over a creek, and even over a buried water pipe. Both worked. Didn't work at all for my father.

[flavioateo]

@Clarkusindarkus1985

You're missing the point. It "worked" when you knew there was water, or somebody around you knew. Double blind is needed to avoid that involuntary cheating.

Every proper test shows divining is just a myth.

[Clarkusindarkus1985]

Yeah I dont know. It may be a myth, however the rods were such that there was no human way possible to turn them by yourself even if I wanted to. They were made of brass wire (or similar metal), and had a 90 degree bend in it. My hand was holding the vertical bit, and the horizontal bit was the bits that crossed each other. I did not lean them forward or anything, they just randomly crossed. Imagine holding a bit of wire in your hand and it just starts turning...that is what happened!

[Clarkusindarkus1985]

I recon just head out to somewhere with water, with a pair of rods, with a few people, and actually give it a go. I held them over a creek and they randomly turned. I walked through a paddock and they just randomly turned. I then noticed a water pipe was going right under where they turned. I didnt realise it was there until they turned, then noticed other things that indicated the pipe was there.

Apparently people have electric fields in them that can vary results from person to person.

[chkpnt]

This test is stupid and doesn't show anything except that this guy is an idiot. Want to really find where the water bottle is? First, GET RID of the bottle under the podeum and anywhere else within 10 ft. Then have the guy walk about half as fast as he does... Then it would work... If you don't believe this works then you either can't do it yourself or you've never tried it. There is a science behind this and I assure you it is not understood.

[myrmecia1977]

1) You lack the faintest hint of a clue as to what science really involves.

2) Just because something debunks your fondly held belief does not make it stupid

3) Richard is far from being an idiot, on the other hand if your post is an accurate representation of your thought processes I would advise you not to waste your time applying for mensa.

[myrmecia1977]

Cant have people missing out on the chance to laugh at you chkpnt - here is the post you removed.

"1) Does it include keeping your head shoved so far up your... Never mind.

2) His test doesn't "debunk" anything since it is a flawed test.

3) The guy authored thirty books on origami... Wasn't one enough? That is like the japanese version of a coloring book.

And is like mensa a like club for like super smart peoples? I want to join sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo bad!"

[pastafazooola]

Humans are 55% to 78% water. Clearly, you need to get rid of the people to avoid colouring the results, don't you?

*lol*

[ledfedbed]

Easy to pooh pooh divining. Ask them to find bottles of water hidden in garbage cans, when it doesn't work, u can say u proved that they can't find water. I can't find bottles of h20. I find underwater veins where h20 has flowed in the same direction for millenia. Maybe I move the rods or the willow but that wouldn't matter as they are not the diviner, I am. Exploration companies fly over large areas of land to measure the electromagnetic fields to find kimberlite pipes, coal beds etc.

[myrmecia1977]

Yes it is easy to pooh pooh divining unless you have poo poo for brains.

[pastafazooola]

hahahhahhaahah, good one.

Exploration companies may indeed fly magnetometry equipment over certain sites looking for this & that but you are not a magnetometer.

Made me laugh anyway, good one.

[regbrant]

About 6 years ago I attended a water divining course in Bristol, England. The course was given by a "water divining" lecturer. We all took part in very poorly devised water divining "tests". During the course I lost all faith in the act of water divining. What was very interesting was some of the people on the course became convinced they had the "natural gift" of divining .......... the power of suggestion is strong

[tapiwakay]

The water under the pulpit was EPIC. I laughed!

[riedsa]

Doing that was more fun than a box full of ducks.

[Josh111485]

Thank you for posting this! I love Richard Saunders!

[harryogre]

For anyone who's unfamiliar with "divining", in rural areas of America this is not only common but a standard part of water well drilling. Often times the well driller won't start a well or name a price unless you pay the extra fee to have it "divined". Even then they rarely guarantee it.

Its sad that a whole industry gets a black eye because of an old superstition like this.

The weird part is that very few of them are actual fakes. Most believe in this silliness and are very serious about it

[TomMSTie]

Speaking of "Rural area of America," I live in Palmyra (Home of Joseph Smith, the founder of the Mormon Church), and my 6th Grade Science Teacher showed us dowsing in class.

[LeKryon]

And s/he said it works (if s/he did) based on which scientific principle or knowledge?

[TomMSTie]

HE didn't state a scientific principle, but showed us by walking past his desk (which had a sink in it) and stopped suddenly which (obviously by force alone) made the wires move, and said, "This is where the pipes are."

This is a 6th grade science teacher, I'd like to state again!

[LeKryon]

Disheartening :(

[TomMSTie]

Tell me about it. I wonder if since then (6th grade was a while ago) if they've disbanded the photo club for stealing souls!

[Bullettube]

Palmyra makes mucho money off the Pageant every year. This is the village, along with Newark, that caught J. Smith being a lying polygamist 100 years ago, but has since softened it's stance against the Mormons. As usual, money talks and historical the facts are conveniently forgotten.

[TomMSTie]

"Palmyra makes mucho money off the Pageant every year."

And I don't see a cent of it, so fuck'em!

"and historical facts are conveniently forgotten."

Until South Park came along: dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb-diddy-dumb!

[Bullettube]

I know a well driller that never uses divining, ever. He uses a geological map, to find the "pockets" of porous rock, then drills the well and hits water every time! What he can't know is how much water is actually trapped in the pocket, sometimes he finds natural gas instead!

[myrmecia1977]

And when you combine science, mapping and personal experience it can look like magic to the gulliable ;) Hope he wasnt smoking when he found the gas!

[Clausfarre]

The podium gag, intended or not, was hilarious. Great video.

[cusack171]

@Clausfarre THINK HE SAW IT, BUT IT WAS FUNNY

[PrinceLoser66]

Science!

The best way for us to understand the universe.