I always make a distinction between Reason and Rational. Kids are super rational aren't they? But they don't know the reasons they're just exploring what they know and see in a very rational way. So obviously they need guidance too. But it's normal to have expectations of each other in life and that's something I figure it's important kids learn.
@Bellybusterr I am planning on filling my girl up with babies fairly soon. However, my exploration of philosophy and life made me drift towards psychology and children as a root of many issues. I have also been a teacher for quite a while, and planning on opening up a school in the future. All of this makes it so children is a large focus in how I think.
@zaynzaynzayn bad is a relative concept only able to be derived from conscious beings who judge good or bad relative to their own survival. Which means that i don't know that your statement has much context. I believe that children who do 'bad' things in some people's eyes only do it because it is highly beneficial from the environment they have been exposed to. what is a bad gene in your opinion?
@aaron0883 you're right that "bad" is not clear here. i mean that letting children do what they want makes them anti-social and bad. i don't agree with negative reinforcement, but you can't reason with them either. thanks for the vid!
How would you react or what action would you take if your five year old child wanted to look at porn all day or he wanted to see multilated pictures of animals.
Here's a huge part of the problem. My current job puts me in an authority position over people including children. Children who are controlled by their parents will often act *out of control* when they encounter an authority who uses logic and reason and cooperation. It's like when you start to unschool a child after schooling them. At first they seem to go nuts, but that is only because of the force and control before. Now those same kids that *ran all over me* listen when I need them too.
@pyrrho314 Unless you communicate to them through words AND actions, that it is otherwise. It's all about communication, just like any other relationship.
@pyrrho314 this is what your question translates to me. Some people want to kill other people. Should people not have a huge oppressive government to control all of man's desire?
If my girlfriend wanted to kill herself I would likely stop her in the moment and try to figure out what is going on. I believe that people kill themselves because they have some shitty stuff going on that they don't perceive an end to. So I would talk to my kid, not rule my child to please far out scenarios.
@aaron0883 : ok then, but lots of things trace to safety. I.e. if your kid drinks water, might not want to, or gets enough sleep, might not want to.
these mild controls you may want to relax relate to physical results, and also, mental growth.
It's the junk food problem, essentially.
I think you might have been a very rational child, as I was. Such indiividual children should be given more freedom. But most children are not that way. How to make them that way? -- to make them...?
@pyrrho314 I believe every choice and every desire a person has makes sense from their perspective. If a friend does something I think is 'irrational' than I will try to relay new information that I do not think he has. If he still persists I will be curious about what information is in their brain guiding their actions. Americans have the biggest sleeping problems in the world, and they are raised with the most sleeping regulations. Many studies have shown similar results with junk food
@aaron0883 : the sense of a child's action is EXPLORATION, they are on an adventure game. You have to make it challenging and interesting and educational, but if they wander the from place, you have to force them back on track.
Since they are exploring, you don't get to sit back and watch. They are asking questions, ultimately, you have to answer. They ask tough questions like, "what happens when I shove my little sister?"
@pyrrho314 or when they explore too far you can guide them and talk to them. if my child asks me that question i would reply with something like "She would get hurt. Is that something you desire to do? and if you do, Why do you desire that?"
@aaron0883 : and that would make you a good parent, but philosophically all sorts of reality imposes itself e.g. time... if you rationally discuss why it's bed time with your child, at bedtime, then it's not really bedtime. In practice you can make the child go to bed, and discuss it for hours with them earlier in the day, prepare them for the concept. But it will eventually come to force. You will not convince your children every time you want, and sometimes their refusal will be irrational.
@pyrrho314 I have been a teacher for years, and I never have to force them even if they don't want to do something atm. People told me I couldn't teach this way, but children are super receptive to people who treat them with respect. Sometimes it might take time and patience that might be difficult, but in order to have a good relationship it takes time and patience at difficult times.
the evolution of child as such is the evolution of the child-parent relationship... their parent is a LARGE part of their environment, so they have evolved to that environment.
OTOH, I was a very rational child as well... but I'm more rational now.
Nice anti-force quote by William Godwin (1797): "If a thing be really good, it can be shown to be such. If you cannot demonstrate its excellence, it may well be suspected that you are no proper judge of it. Why should not I be admitted to decide, upon that which is to be acquired by my labour?"
I think the important point here is not that parents or children are better at making choices so one or the other should 'get their way', but rather: What is the most rational way of making decisions? If force is used, that means something other than persuasion and reason is being used. It cuts off any opportunity for criticism or improving the decision of the person being forced.
ah, a point well made :)
atlroxmysox98 1 year ago
Love these videos thanks very much aaron. Ps you should watch your weight.
gammypage 1 year ago
I always make a distinction between Reason and Rational. Kids are super rational aren't they? But they don't know the reasons they're just exploring what they know and see in a very rational way. So obviously they need guidance too. But it's normal to have expectations of each other in life and that's something I figure it's important kids learn.
GoldenFinchFellow 1 year ago 2
Are you having a kid soon? You've talked a lot about children lately. =)
Bellybusterr 1 year ago
@Bellybusterr I am planning on filling my girl up with babies fairly soon. However, my exploration of philosophy and life made me drift towards psychology and children as a root of many issues. I have also been a teacher for quite a while, and planning on opening up a school in the future. All of this makes it so children is a large focus in how I think.
aaron0883 1 year ago
is letting bad genes die off a bad idea?
zaynzaynzayn 1 year ago
@zaynzaynzayn bad is a relative concept only able to be derived from conscious beings who judge good or bad relative to their own survival. Which means that i don't know that your statement has much context. I believe that children who do 'bad' things in some people's eyes only do it because it is highly beneficial from the environment they have been exposed to. what is a bad gene in your opinion?
aaron0883 1 year ago
@aaron0883 you're right that "bad" is not clear here. i mean that letting children do what they want makes them anti-social and bad. i don't agree with negative reinforcement, but you can't reason with them either. thanks for the vid!
zaynzaynzayn 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@zaynzaynzayn On what evidence do you base your assumption that children cannot be reasoned with?
stardust005 1 year ago
How would you react or what action would you take if your five year old child wanted to look at porn all day or he wanted to see multilated pictures of animals.
Pentazoid111 1 year ago
@Pentazoid111 i would react with curiosity and a desire to understand why he desired that.
aaron0883 1 year ago
Here's a huge part of the problem. My current job puts me in an authority position over people including children. Children who are controlled by their parents will often act *out of control* when they encounter an authority who uses logic and reason and cooperation. It's like when you start to unschool a child after schooling them. At first they seem to go nuts, but that is only because of the force and control before. Now those same kids that *ran all over me* listen when I need them too.
UnschoolingEagle 1 year ago
thing is, when you are the parent the kids think you are in control no matter what.
pyrrho314 1 year ago
@pyrrho314 Unless you communicate to them through words AND actions, that it is otherwise. It's all about communication, just like any other relationship.
stardust005 1 year ago
so gary says kids should be allowed to euthenize themselves at 10 if they want.
do you think they are rational enough for that?
pyrrho314 1 year ago
@pyrrho314 this is what your question translates to me. Some people want to kill other people. Should people not have a huge oppressive government to control all of man's desire?
If my girlfriend wanted to kill herself I would likely stop her in the moment and try to figure out what is going on. I believe that people kill themselves because they have some shitty stuff going on that they don't perceive an end to. So I would talk to my kid, not rule my child to please far out scenarios.
aaron0883 1 year ago
@aaron0883 : ok then, but lots of things trace to safety. I.e. if your kid drinks water, might not want to, or gets enough sleep, might not want to.
these mild controls you may want to relax relate to physical results, and also, mental growth.
It's the junk food problem, essentially.
I think you might have been a very rational child, as I was. Such indiividual children should be given more freedom. But most children are not that way. How to make them that way? -- to make them...?
pyrrho314 1 year ago
@pyrrho314 I believe every choice and every desire a person has makes sense from their perspective. If a friend does something I think is 'irrational' than I will try to relay new information that I do not think he has. If he still persists I will be curious about what information is in their brain guiding their actions. Americans have the biggest sleeping problems in the world, and they are raised with the most sleeping regulations. Many studies have shown similar results with junk food
aaron0883 1 year ago
@aaron0883 : the sense of a child's action is EXPLORATION, they are on an adventure game. You have to make it challenging and interesting and educational, but if they wander the from place, you have to force them back on track.
Since they are exploring, you don't get to sit back and watch. They are asking questions, ultimately, you have to answer. They ask tough questions like, "what happens when I shove my little sister?"
pyrrho314 1 year ago
@pyrrho314 or when they explore too far you can guide them and talk to them. if my child asks me that question i would reply with something like "She would get hurt. Is that something you desire to do? and if you do, Why do you desire that?"
aaron0883 1 year ago
@aaron0883 : and then you find out why people say kids are irrational. "because she started it" e.g.
pyrrho314 1 year ago
@pyrrho314 Than I would take my time to dissect the issue with them so they can learn conflict resolution and empathy
aaron0883 1 year ago
@aaron0883 : and that would make you a good parent, but philosophically all sorts of reality imposes itself e.g. time... if you rationally discuss why it's bed time with your child, at bedtime, then it's not really bedtime. In practice you can make the child go to bed, and discuss it for hours with them earlier in the day, prepare them for the concept. But it will eventually come to force. You will not convince your children every time you want, and sometimes their refusal will be irrational.
pyrrho314 1 year ago
@pyrrho314 I have been a teacher for years, and I never have to force them even if they don't want to do something atm. People told me I couldn't teach this way, but children are super receptive to people who treat them with respect. Sometimes it might take time and patience that might be difficult, but in order to have a good relationship it takes time and patience at difficult times.
aaron0883 1 year ago
the evolution of child as such is the evolution of the child-parent relationship... their parent is a LARGE part of their environment, so they have evolved to that environment.
OTOH, I was a very rational child as well... but I'm more rational now.
pyrrho314 1 year ago
Nice anti-force quote by William Godwin (1797): "If a thing be really good, it can be shown to be such. If you cannot demonstrate its excellence, it may well be suspected that you are no proper judge of it. Why should not I be admitted to decide, upon that which is to be acquired by my labour?"
LulieTanett 1 year ago
I think the important point here is not that parents or children are better at making choices so one or the other should 'get their way', but rather: What is the most rational way of making decisions? If force is used, that means something other than persuasion and reason is being used. It cuts off any opportunity for criticism or improving the decision of the person being forced.
LulieTanett 1 year ago
5:50 very true.
MaikUniversum 1 year ago