Orkid & Corky Shamu Show 1990

[truamaliawreslterhbk]

baby orkid how cute

[shamuroxy]

aww orkids so little!

[ZJG1986]

I've been there for the first time when I was probably 4 yrs old.

Gawd, so hard to remember all that. :)

[124yuppers]

Notice how they don't mention how cetaceans are thought to be the most inteligent animals, secound only to humans. And that they are so inteligent, that it is thought to be moraly repulsive to mistreat them. Well at least there is some education in this show, unlike shamu rocks and believe!

[metridium]

As of January 2008, a total of 44 orcas (15 wild-caught and 29 captive-born calves) are held in 12 marine parks in six different countries. At least 136 orcas (killer whales) have been taken into captivity from the wild since 1961. One hundred and twenty (120) are now dead (88%). (An additional male escaped after 2.5 years in captivity. His fate is unknown. Most captives die before they reach their early 20s, yet in the wild, females may live as long as 80 years or more. -WDCS

[BetaWolfRunner]

Thats probably because we new little about orcas and how they would adapt to captivity marine mammels in captivity are a farely new thing which in modern year improving greatly

[124yuppers]

Yes, but they are still dieing prematurely, and is it fair for us to keep breeding these animals without full knowledge about how captivity affects them?

[BetaWolfRunner]

when was the last time an orca died in captivity in recent years? The only time im aware of it is Hayln in 2006. But that was from her mother dumping her at birth for an unknown cause its very uncommon. And what if they were to be released? How could you possibly garentee they would be able to rejoin there original pods? Let alone if they would want to. The only way you can know for sure if captive born orcas can rejoin theirs pods if you capture some wild members and put them in a sea pen

[124yuppers]

that the wild caught orcas can rejoin their pods. Maybe they can release the captive orcas as a pod. But of course, I wouldn't know if that would work as I don't speak whale.

[BetaWolfRunner]

Might I remind you that most wild caught orcas have reistablished themselves within another pod in captivity which grows over the years there is the possiblity that removing them wild or not from that pod may be just as damging for them as it was for them to be removed from the wild. Just a thought i have the orcas best interest at heart. The only way we can tell or not if they can rejoin a residant pod is by capturing thm in a sea pen and seeing how they react to the once in captivity.

[124yuppers]

The thing is, captive orcas don't get the chance to form pods. The orcas are constantly being sold or switched between parks and kept in seperate tanks. While they may have the chance to bond with one or two whales, think about how large pods can be in the wild. Calves are seperated from their mothers, something that almost never happens in the wild. Overall, captive orcas never get to form actual pods, so seperating them wouldn't be that big of a deal.

[124yuppers]

Please understand I am talking hypothetically here, I don't believe that captive cetaceans should be released yet. If the releasment method improves, so that we are sure we are not affecting the enviornment by releasing them, and that they will die of causes that wild orcas die from, then maybe they can be released.

[BetaWolfRunner]

I wish that you would understand my stand i dont agree much to the marine parks now anyways they have gone less zoological to theme park sure they have the wildlife rescue and succesful breeding programs. But the trainers that work in the park love those animals no doubt they have a bond with them we could never have. But there has to be a way to for the time being improve life in captivity and then push for the possible release but how are we going to accomidate the jobs lost?

[124yuppers]

Well, the trainers may love them, but we have no way of knowing if they love the trainers back. I have a bunch of info on that but that's not what we're talking about. I don't think job loss is a big problem here. It's not that many jobs, and some can be switched over to help the releases, some can continue working at the park, you know, helping with the rollar coasters, fish, sealions, ect.

[BetaWolfRunner]

Well first off it the orcas really did hate the trainers they would have shown that a long time ago. An orca is perfectlhy capable of protesting its situation. It happens all the time, it isint an issue of of being forced. But based on what you said on the job loss like most animal rights activists could care less about people in this economy a job loss would be devastating for them and their familys. Look at what they whales would be exposed suddenly in the wild deseas, boats fishing nets etc.

[124yuppers]

First of all, way to spell diseases. Secoundly all wild orcas also face diseases and fishing nets, but they live longer then the captive ones. If you were to put it that way, wouldn't it make more sense to save more in the wild by capturing them so we could take care of them in captivity? I am not an animal rights activist, I never have been and I never plan on being one. But is it such a bad thing that they care more about animals then people?...

[124yuppers]

But what I meant about jobs not being that much of a problem is that there are not that many people working at seaworld, or marineland or anyother aquarium that are directly tied to the animals. I pointed out new jobs that could be created. The economy is not centered around aquariums.The same thing could be said about whalers. The whalers need their job, so should we sacrifice an important eco-system and lives for a couple people who could find jobs elsewhere?

[124yuppers]

Lastly, once again there is no way we can know that orcas love their trainers. While an orca is capable of protesting, does it? The truth is, cetaceans do not attack people, not in the wild, and virtually never in captivity. Look at Penn Cove, when a pod of orcas were being taken for captivity, was a single man killed? They could have killed them, easily, but it is against their nature. So the fact that cetaceans almost never attack their trainers, is not an issue of a "bond."

[BetaWolfRunner]

We know that Keiko loved people and his trainers the bond he had with people and his was much stronger then with wild whales. Sea World sandiego orcas have developed there own maternal group. When once of the whales from orlando to texas it died those orcas had maternal pods in captivity. Plus look at issues with wild orcas pugent sound there has beed a food decline. they may even become a problem like luna did. that may cause more harm then good.

[124yuppers]

Well, it may not be so much that Keiko loved his trainers because, if you think about it, Keiko has not seen other orcas for 17 years and he was captured at a very young age. He never found his pod, and he couldn't speak the language of the orcas he met up with, so I'm sure he had some "social" problems, so that that he never connected with whales. Instead, he relied on humans, not because he loved them but because they were all he knew.

[BetaWolfRunner]

Maybe, maybe not however you know the scene in the free willie movie when Jesse fell into the tank? Thats based of an actual occurance someone in the film crew fell into the tank and then Keiko helped him to the shore. This shows something.

[124yuppers]

Some scientists think cetaceans have a natural instinct to push things towards the surface as to support boats while bowriding. But they also support fallen pod members, which may be because of a bond they have. I am sure Keiko had some sort of a bond with people, because he could not bond with other orcas (just like Lolita) but orcas are self-aware, they know they are orcas., they know orcas make up their pod. So it is pretty far-fetched to say they love us.

[BetaWolfRunner]

And at the same time it isnt so far fetched. We may through scientific study no alot but at the same time know very little There is a saying though " A part of your soul remains locked until you have known an animal." this is very anthro, but it seems more respectful to an animal then just a simple scientific view. excuse me for that getting of topic.

[124yuppers]

Ok so, we have to look at the type of animal. With dogs and cats, and other domesticated animal, they almost always form bonds with people. It's been bred into them with nurture and nature. While animals like cetaceans are perfectly fine one their own with members of their own kind. They have not been bred to form bonds with people, nor do they seek bonds with people unless something extremely tramatic has happened. Who knows if that's even really a bond?

[BetaWolfRunner]

You dont know because you never had the opportunity to make a bond with one. sure you feel compassion for orcas and cetaceans but have you bonded with any paticular animal? Or do you look at everything at a scientific view reducing human and animals to the level of rocks? A part of your sould remains locked until you have known an animal.

[124yuppers]

No I never have had a chance to bond with one, I am looking at scientific research here. But I do not look at everything from a scientific point of view, somethings just can't be looked at at a scientific view, and some need to be. People always want to have a bond with cetaceans, I understand because I would love to have one too. The problem is, sometimes people can distort and cetacean's behavior as having a bond with them, as that's what they really want.

[124yuppers]

And unfortunatly, sometimes trainers can love this "bond" more then they care for the animal's well being. Trust me, I am not one to under estimate the bond between people and animals, just sometimes, we have to put the animal's well beign first is they are actually, needlessly suffering.

[shamuroxy]

@124yuppers how so? how exactly are they suffering?

[124yuppers]

@shamuroxy Orcas are also very social, a sub species of orcas called Residents spend their entire lives with their mothers and their pods never split up. In captivity pods need to be split up to ensure genetic health and to prevent inbreeding. This is unatural and tears familys apart.

Cetaceans in general are thought to be some of the most inteligent animals in the world, keeping them in small, barren tanks with little mental stimulation is cruel at the very least.

[shamuroxy]

@124yuppers very little mental stimulation? wow you have done absolutely no research on seaworld have you? unless you know how a day for an orca at seaworld goes or have seen how the trainers and whales interact and know all the facts you have no right to judge

[124yuppers]

@shamuroxy They are suffering for several reasons. The first of which is that they are living in very cramped conditions, the largest tanks in the exhibit are around 200ft long and exactly 36ft deep while orcas can swim up 100 miles a day in the wild and dive as deep as 197ft. They have no use for their most important sense echo-location in a tank, which is sensory deprivation. Imagine having no use for you eyes! That is the equivalent with orcas.

[shamuroxy]

@124yuppers alright so 1 reason.. but if they have never experienced using it how are they going to miss it? and they do not need to use echolocation in a pool anyway and have excellent vision.. and the training sessions, shows, and eeds are meant to make up for their lack of swimming..

[124yuppers]

@shamuroxy Do you think that if a human were born and raised in a barren, grey closet, they wouldn't have a need to use their eyes? Senses are instinctual, they are not learned. Sonar is a cetaceans' most used/ important sense, like sight. The fact that they have no use for sonar because they can see everything is exactly the point. That is sensory deprivation.

[124yuppers]

@shamuroxy The high energy behaviors the animals are made to do a couple times a day are not nearly enough physical stimulation. These high energy behaviors (speed swims, bows, breaches, ect.) are also lacking mental stimulation. The animals have been basically doing the same behaviors for the majority of their lives. Cetaceans are incredibly intelligent and enrichment items (balls, ice, rings ect) come no where near the stimulation in the ocean.

[124yuppers]

@shamuroxy In the wild they solve complex problems and come up with new and creative ways to hunt. None of this can be done in captivity. The way the whales and trainers interact has nothing to do with whether the animals are suffering. I do have a right to judge as I've based my opinion on facts and I have never seen FACTS indicating that cetaceans are happy and healthy in captivity.

[124yuppers]

But orcas die very prematurly in captivity, and babies are sold to other parks. Many times they are kept in tanks by themselves or in tanks with only one or two of their pod members. All of this is unatural and makes it virtually impossible to form a strong pod in captivity.

[BetaWolfRunner]

Really? Depending on your scouces of information that is probably a load of bunk because at seaworld sandiego three calves have been born and all three still remain at their birth place. I go to seaworld all the time to keep an i on them. The same orcas are always there. Maybe its the other parks either way i dont get there thinking on trading in seperating.

[124yuppers]

Well, if we're just looking at SWC, then Takara's mother is Kasatka who lives at SWC, while Takara lives in SWT. Sumar, who lives at SWC was born to Taima who lives at SWF. These are just those from SWC, there are much more seperations between seworld's dams. Also, while I was looking through that list of orcas from orcanetwork and the phinventory, I noticed that SWC, has alot of wild caught dolphins! That took me by suprise at least!

[BetaWolfRunner]

Both recent orca deaths were from obvious reasons Hayln mother abandoned her thus she probably never had the appropriate antibodies and such to survive The other orca from seaworld thats was moved died more likely then not from seperation from his birth pod. I cant say for marineland or the other country parks.

[BetaWolfRunner]

Look I just dont want to see the orcas hurt out of it. What Im pushing for is rehoming Lolita she needs to get out of that tiny tank campaigns for her freedom isint getting her anywhere she needs to be rehomed and fast its the best thing for her temporarily. To make the whales lives in captivity more interesting im trying to push for larger tanks more natural looking environments and enrichment. Thats better then nothing

[124yuppers]

I agree that Lolita should be rehomed, I doubt she would be able to handle the ocean after 39 years of captivity. Unfortunatly, the only way a tank for cetaceans can be humane is if it is 40 miles long, with live fish to eat, and other aquatic animals. But I agree with you that their tanks need to made bigger and more interesting so that the cetaceans in captivity can live out the rest of their lives well.

[WildOrcas]

I meant to say Orkid..

[WildOrcas]

Thank you for uploading this Im always looking for Corky and Orky old SeaWorld video's, and Corky is my faviorate orca.

[metridium]

• At least 134 orcas have been taken into captivity from the wild since 1961/2001 One

hundred and six (79%) are now dead.

• Of the 107 which died, average length of survival in captivity was under six years

(range: 1 day - 27.2 years).

 • Of 59 known pregnancies in captivity since 1968, only 23 calves (38%) have survived. 2001 "Dying to Entertain You" Whale and Dolphin Conservation Society

[KeetTheOrca]

Thanks for uploading this! It always is cool to see SeaWorld orca history and I love toddler orcas.

[Shamudream]

Wow great upload!

[Almostorca798]

Amazing!!<3

I love this!!

[orkamad]

aww orkid's 2nd birthday that was on as she was born on september 23 1988. she looks so big

[OrcaLova]

Awesome Footage. =]=]

[goldbullet345]

this is after Orky2,Kandu5,and nootka1 Passed yet they put on a great show.

[iberry]

I agree ... they did have a great show... "Corky swimming to the back pool" was awesome. way back in the day, the shows were more about education... and even without all the glitz and glamor... the shows were great.

[DesireeCullen]

I agree with you on that but I think they've been changing the shows around mostly for the kids and what not. like "Believe" the shows which mean to believe in yourself kind of thing. You know what I mean. Cause kids, especially teen these days are doing so bad and school and whatnot. I'm a teen myself and I see it in my school all the time.

[KillerDolphins43]

Wow, at this time Corky2 & Orkid were the only Orcas at the this park. Awesome footage by the way!

[goldbullet345]

really? thats wried. they have 7 orcas now.thats nice. orkid is cute.

[iberry]

thank you... yep, it was the Corky and Orkid show. I can honestly say that I love those two whales... they both have been through a lot.

[me92028]

Actually they were never the only orcas there.Kasatka came to SWC in February and Nootka died in March. Kalena came to SWC in Oct. 1990, but was not there for long. I hung out there every weekend, enjoying them all. =)

[thesupremestar]

Orkid is so cute. Awesome video.