@Volans2000 Actually, for almost all of our tests, the grass is damaged by high wind but survives. The afterburner tests produce too much heat for it, and a large delta-shaped scar of dead grass is noiceable for weeks afterwards.
@AgentJayZ Well, think about it! Through natural selection, which makes the strongest grass to survive, you are creating a new jet engine-resiliant grass species! :D One that will have nickel alloy leaves. :P
@crotchboots what's a projectile proof wall? 2 feet thick reinforced concrete might stop a small piece of a turbine disc, if it were to fail, but there are projectiles that would pass through it with ease.
The control room is not in the plane of rotation of the turbine, so no wall needed.
@MikeSVOR I think it's explained in the info section, but it is indeed a fog of unlit fuel because the AB ignitor is not working. We apply a few repairs and a bit of magic, and the beast roars to life.
If you spray fuel into a jet engine exhaust, it won't ignite by itself.
If this is taken off a Kfir, then its a J79-J1E. I think it was the most powerful version of the J79 rated at 18,750 lbf with afterburning thrust, specifically modified accessory installation for the IAI Kfir.
@AgentJayZ I had the pleasure of riding shotgun on top of one of these in a Kfir TC7, back in 1987. The installation of the J79 in the Kfir is a bit like shoehorning a Supercharged V8 into a Mini. The Kfir would vibrate wildly as the A/B kicked in. On A/B take off, you could see the flame lick the runway. Generally speaking, the J79 is one loud engine. A fast low flying Kfir going past, will literally shock you outa yer boots.
@kachaikc you try standing right next to one thats on an aircraft at full aug, i work on B1-B Lancers which use the F101-GE-102, theyre '80s engines but theyre still fun lol
All the test cells I've ever ran engines in had to be enclosed in hush houses. Did most of my runs on installed engines in F-16s Liked being on the ground instead of doing the actual run. You could get right up by the F100-PW-220's and feel the power coursing through your body. Especially in burner. I remember guys cracking cans of 7808 and tossing them into the burner flame. Made quite a light show at night. :-)
@HJtuner The engine is held in a structural steel stand, bolted to a skid made of steel I-beams, which is set in the concrete floor.
The very beginning of the video shows us starting the engine with the start cart.
The operator of the start cart can not see the operator of the engine, so Big Al is relaying the signal from the control room to the start cart guy that he can shut of the engine in the start cart.
@cowsrock94 The afterburner increases fuel consumption by over 100% and increases thrust by 50%, so in terms of fuel used per pound of thrust, it decreases it.
Absolute fuel consumption is 37 gpm max military for this engine, and 87 gpm at full AB.
The afterburner can not be activated unless the engine is at max rpm and power.
The afterburner burns more fuel "after" the last stage of the turbine, so it has no effect on rpm of the engine.
That’s actually a good idea if the engine was overhauled from damaged aircraft if there was a way to lock it down on a trailer then use it to clear snow off a road very easily maybe.
After studying some thermodynamics in 1st year engineering, it's amazing to appreciate what's going on in there. Never thought the Nozzle would be such an important part of the engine. Can't wait to get out there :)
i have always thought the exhaust pipes on the ends of those engines were creepy looking... i don't know why... just the way they expand and contract freaks me out.
@noper12345 The J79 is started by an onboard air turbine starter that uses compressed air to turn the main rotor.
The compressed air is supplied to the starter by a "start cart", which contains a small turbine engine spinning at around 35,000 rpm. The noise at the very beginning of this video is made by the start cart.
You can get a good look at the start cart firing up in "starting a large turbine engine"
I was wondering if jet engines have some kind of ignition system, do they use spark to just get them started or so they have a continous "ignition"? second is the purpose of the nozzle getting smaller at higher rpm to make the pressue of the exhaust gas higher to make more thrust? Why do they call " full throttle" and "after burner"
I was wondering if jet engines have some kind of ignition system, do they use spark to just get them started or so they have a continous "ignition"? second is the purpose of the nozzle getting smaller at higher rpm to make the pressue of the exhaust gas higher to make more thrust? Why do they call " full throttle" and "after burner"
@Jettamike18 Yes they have ignitor plugs, and use a very healthy spark. The ignition system is only needed to start the fuel burning. One good spark is all you need, and then the combustion is continuous.
@Jettamike18 The nozzle: The engine makes very little power until almost max revs. The nozzle converts the power into thrust. It opens up at lower rpms to make the thrust zero. It starts to close down as the power builds to a level that would be useful to an aircraft.
@Jettamike18 Full throttle is max engine revs and fuel flow without the AB. The nozzle is set to an area tha maximises acceleration of the gases produced by combustion.
There is still oxygen in the exhaust, so more fuel can be sprayed ito it and lit. This is called an afterburner, because the fuel is added and burned after ( behind) the last stage of the turbine.
@Jettamike18 Also, there is no "ignition" in a jet engine, rather, there is a continuouse flame in the combustion chamber. During start up to light the initiall fire, and at in some aircraft at critical points in time (take off and landing) the sparkers are activated to reduce the risk of flameout (the fire int he combustion chambre cceases to exist)
I have some question and I am doing a report on a f414 engine from GE. I I am wondering how there engines fire do they have a constant firing system or just to get them started, do they use a type of spark to ignite the fuel? second is the purpose of the nozzle to make a smaller opening to make the pressure of the air coming out higher to then inturn to make more thurst? why do they call full throttle afterburners?
what kind of thrust at full throttle are we talking on this engine? have to say im absolutely facinated by these and how they work. would love too see this for myself.
@AgentJayZ Yea they are awesome Engineering, and I am sooo happy because I applied for an Engineering Apprenticeship at Rolls-Royce and they phoned me up yesterday and offered me a place! I will be learning how to make Jet Engines! Royces Turbojets are amaaaazing
How quickly can a turbojet (or any jet engine really) throttle up? Is there a term for that?
I vaguely remember reading somewhere that if a fighter pilot doing a carrier landing misses, or has a cable break, they can throttle up and not fall into the ocean, and when I thought about it it came to me that if the engine throttles up to fast you might snuff the flame? Is that true?
As far as I know, during a carrier landing , the pilot pushes the throttle to full power as soon as the wheels touch down, and only backs off when he knows the cable is hooked and hasn't broken.
Whether or not he uses afterburner, I'm not sure, but others will soon let us know.
As for throttle response, I've heard that the J79 is one of the best engines out there.
I don't know anything about the newer engines, but part of the test shown in this video was to advance the throttle from idle to full military in one second.
That's min rpm to max rpm.
The afterburner does not affect engine rpm. It burns fuel by mixing with the exhaust stream after it leaves the core of the engine...
ummm, how does the environmental guys feel about that unburnt fuel spraying over all that nice clean countryside? i see a future in canadian superfund cleanup projects!
just a thought! i was an electronic tech at Pratt Whitney Acft in Middeltown CT for a while. watched them carve the massive chunks of titanium into sweet beautiful hubs and rotor spindles on power hungry ECM devices. totally awesomme! they had a HIP machine prototype that caste? some of the most flawless blades i have ever seen! and the test area i think had 8 stations, used to rumble the production floor when they did some tests. it was a really cool job!
How much time take the engine to run from idle power to full power ? As far as i know, the GE J-79 was one of the first military engine with a "amazing" speed up to full power.
That's a sound that I sure miss. I worked test cell at MCAS El Toro in the late 80's. VMFP-3 was still flying and we had the -79 in house all the time.
I'd definitely need to beef up the driveline first, that's for sure. The T-5 is only rated to 300 ft-lbs - it's the V6.
I would probably end up with a Rolls Royce Nimbus, it's only $5,000 but still produces a respectable 710 SHP. At 600lbs, I think I'd lose my light and nimble V6 handling though D:
Maybe different marks of the engine? The Mk 101 I was looking at was listed as 710 SHP by the seller, but is supposed to make 1050 SHP.
The idea I've always toyed with is adding a throttle quadrant to the center console, pre-spool the engine, and then use a suitably robust release clutch as the gas pedal. That way the turbine is already making gobs of power by the time it's needed.
Now all the twizzler driveshafts, that's another matter...
There's no way I'd try to go through with it without talking to those who've managed to make it work or at least bench tests that support the theory.
The current method that I'm working with is a fluid torque converter with variable vanes; the concept being that the slip of the torque converter will provide graduation while allowing the engine to run full out.
Making the internals robust enough is the real challenge. Fortunately 3D CAD and C&C machines have come a long way in affordability!
Not sure which version, but there's a military J75 here in the Ottawa Aviation museum from the Avro Arrow program. Maybe I can try to convince 'em to let me sneak it out under the guise of, err, "cleaning"... :D
Sure won't fit in my Mustang's trunk though!
The Isreali air force has a 707-320 rotting in a field somewhere with JT4A's. Ex-Sabena, I think. Not only that but they re-engined a 707 with JT3D's in 2003, so they must have the old JT4A's somewhere.
It wasn't fitted on early F-16's; an F-16 that was already manufactured was adapted to use the J79 as a prototype for a weaker export version. The F-16/79 as it was called required one ton of extra heat shielding and a modification to the rear fuselage to fit the longer engine.
Foreign countries ended up getting Reagan to nullify Carter's non-proliferation rules and thus the F-16/79 prototype was the first and last built. The P&W powered F-16 outperformed it in every way.
The stand is 6X6 and 8X8 structural steel, welded to steel pilings driven 16 feet into the ground, and set in the concrete pad which is the entire test cell floor.
One thing everyone forgets is that although the J79 was an AWESOME jet engine. It did have a big draw back it did smoke alot. The F100's burn much cleaner....
I was wondering where I can find a J-79. I am an instructor at an A & P school in MI. It does not have to be running, but I would like it to be complete for restoration purposes. Any help would be appreciated.
One thing - The J79 was never used in production F-16s. One prototype was built and flew around 100 hours, but none were ever sold to foreign countries. It was an attempt to get around the ban of exporting the F-15 & F-16's F100 engines. Once that ban was lifted the F-16/79 research ended.
Faster only in a straight line MAX AB run, which is not where fighters spend much time. All the thermal insulation that had to be added to the engine bay (2,000 pounds of steel sheeting) also made the airframe heavier and more sluggish than the F100 powered F-16, combined with the lower thrust of the J79 it made the F-16/79 a less effective aircraft.
Usually bout 15min. Im not sure i dink 10-15min afterburners drain the fuel of the jet so its not how long it can last its how much fuel is in the jet determines how long it can go.
The J79 was a revolutionary engine when introduced in the late 50's.
It was one of the first engines to use variable stators to make a huge improvement in throttle response, and it was one of the most powerful jet engines of its day.
It was indeed mass-produced - thousands of them were produced by GE, and hundreds more produced by licensees in other counrties.
Some were built by IAE in Israel, and some were built by Orenda in Canada.
Every F-4, F-104, and B-58 was powered by this great jet.
What do you know about Open Rotor Jet Engines? I heard NASA and GE are trying to revive them, cause their fuel efficient, but I dont really understrand how they work
The exhaust nozzle is what turns this great fuel-burning hot gas generator into a jet engine. The nozzle causes the hugely expanding volume of gas produced by the burning of the fuel in the air to accelerate.
Throw the gas backward at maximum speed, and the plane moves forward.
An example: try to blow out a candle with your mout wide open.
Impossible.
Now do the usual, and purse your lips into a "nozzle" that accelerates your breath into a high speed stream.
The exhaust nozzle is changed in area by four hydraulic cylinders that push long arms which move the segments of the nozzle inward or outward, depending on fuel flow and temperature. If the pilot calls foe AB, but it does not light for whatever reason, the nozzle will stay in the smaller non-AB position.
Thrust is produced by the nozzle, and if it were to open to the AB position, and the AB did not light off, all thrust would be lost.
When we are dumping fuel into the jetpipe, but the AB ignitor is not functioning, you see the cloud of unburnt fuel... but you also see that the nozzle stays in the smaller setting of full, non-AB power.
Later, when the ignitor is working, and the AB is roaring, you see the nozzle open up to the larger area which maximizes tha acceleration of the larger volume of gas produced by the extra heat of burning the AB fuel.
On every one of my other videos, which are of industrial gas turbines, normally rated in shaft Hp, people keep asking me "HP? aren't they supposed to be rated by thrust?"
And here, in my only video of an actual jet engine, rated in thrust, not Hp... you are asking the same Q, only in reverse.
All I can tell you is that the same engine, without the afterburner, is rated at about 15,000HP.
The blue hose is supplying air at about 30 psi from the start cart to the onboard air turbine starter, which turns the main shaft of the engine via a planetary reduction gear up to starting rpm.
This is for one of them jet cars right? I mean this footage, I remember seeing this on TV and it was for a jet powered car attemtping for speed records no?
BTW, a question to you: What about noise issues with the community around you? Where is your test stand? Thank you for sharing those great videos... Did you ever fire up F-16 engines, as well? Those are even louder, I think, than the J79...
Hmm, from a Kfir.... Where is the Kfir from, Colombia? Most J79 powered planes are coming out of service and I don't see a reason for restoring them.... Is this for training?
The Kfir is an israeli aircraft, based on the cell of the D´Assault Mirage III. With the J79 powerplant and some other changes like canards. Colombia and Ecuador have some Kfir´s on service, and the United States too (aggressor squadrons).
I know that, but I didn't think that the Southern Americans would move their stuff this far North for repairs. And the USAF has already retired their F-21s. Returned to Israel and I think resold to South America....
Not much grass growing to where the jet points, or is it? :D
Volans2000 3 weeks ago
@Volans2000 Actually, for almost all of our tests, the grass is damaged by high wind but survives. The afterburner tests produce too much heat for it, and a large delta-shaped scar of dead grass is noiceable for weeks afterwards.
AgentJayZ 3 weeks ago
@AgentJayZ Well, think about it! Through natural selection, which makes the strongest grass to survive, you are creating a new jet engine-resiliant grass species! :D One that will have nickel alloy leaves. :P
Volans2000 3 weeks ago
shouldnt there be a projectile proof wall between the control shack and the engine? just in case it grenades on you...
crotchboots 1 month ago
@crotchboots what's a projectile proof wall? 2 feet thick reinforced concrete might stop a small piece of a turbine disc, if it were to fail, but there are projectiles that would pass through it with ease.
The control room is not in the plane of rotation of the turbine, so no wall needed.
No grenades, either.
AgentJayZ 1 month ago
Bloody hell.
wingnut0837 2 months ago
Good way to clear snow ;-P
bartij 3 months ago
What is the white smoke coming out before the afterburner lights? Is that raw fuel or water vapor? Why?
MikeSVOR 5 months ago
@MikeSVOR I think it's explained in the info section, but it is indeed a fog of unlit fuel because the AB ignitor is not working. We apply a few repairs and a bit of magic, and the beast roars to life.
If you spray fuel into a jet engine exhaust, it won't ignite by itself.
AgentJayZ 5 months ago
I should build one in my garage to clear the snow off my driveway every day ;)
bigrandom77777 5 months ago
no wonder the night came a bit too early
GreatjayQ 5 months ago
Die wollen doch bloß kein Schnee schippen.
W4rJ4cK 6 months ago
If this is taken off a Kfir, then its a J79-J1E. I think it was the most powerful version of the J79 rated at 18,750 lbf with afterburning thrust, specifically modified accessory installation for the IAI Kfir.
JackalTash 7 months ago
@JackalTash That's what it is. This is video of the first J1E we've tested. I just put up a video of the test of our third.
AgentJayZ 7 months ago
@AgentJayZ I had the pleasure of riding shotgun on top of one of these in a Kfir TC7, back in 1987. The installation of the J79 in the Kfir is a bit like shoehorning a Supercharged V8 into a Mini. The Kfir would vibrate wildly as the A/B kicked in. On A/B take off, you could see the flame lick the runway. Generally speaking, the J79 is one loud engine. A fast low flying Kfir going past, will literally shock you outa yer boots.
JackalTash 7 months ago
I loveeeee this sound... Is classic music to my hear... Agree thumbs up
kachaikc 7 months ago
@kachaikc you try standing right next to one thats on an aircraft at full aug, i work on B1-B Lancers which use the F101-GE-102, theyre '80s engines but theyre still fun lol
InfektedMinds 7 months ago in playlist Turbines
I want one
kush997 7 months ago
I bet your neighbors hate you
gypsykingg 8 months ago
you guys hiring?
operationcwaI789789 10 months ago
All the test cells I've ever ran engines in had to be enclosed in hush houses. Did most of my runs on installed engines in F-16s Liked being on the ground instead of doing the actual run. You could get right up by the F100-PW-220's and feel the power coursing through your body. Especially in burner. I remember guys cracking cans of 7808 and tossing them into the burner flame. Made quite a light show at night. :-)
MrAndyBear 1 year ago
@MrAndyBear Well, we could do that, but I'm too cheap to pay for a can of oil.
Sounds like you've seen some great stuff.
AgentJayZ 1 year ago
Fuel flow at
Idle: 800- 1400 pph
Max. Reheat: 30000- 36000 pounds per hour
EGT goes up to 1800 degrees and the
air speed at Max.Reheat is about 510 meters per second
Beautiful engine but a little old.
Aircraftmechanical 1 year ago
Dear santa...
Zirrcamelot2 1 year ago
i still wouldnt feel safe walking behind it when its off.
see4el9 1 year ago
I wanna be in your shoes and test stuff like that all day long!!!!!
hitdapipe 1 year ago
@hitdapipe Looks like you do already. In a way, this test is of a "hit and miss" afterburner !
AgentJayZ 1 year ago
Thank´s for posting. Engine Tiger´s for ever!
j7917a 1 year ago
lol i live in dawson creek bc an hour out of fort st john, but anyway who needs shovels hey, hahaha its just one huge heated snowblower!
pCf96 1 year ago
@pCf96 An hour? You need to push the right pedal harder...
AgentJayZ 1 year ago
is it not dangerous when you walked so close to the inlet? Can't you get sucked in??
kevinatucla 1 year ago
@kevinatucla When the engine is idling, it is moving very little air.
It sounds like it will eat you, but it won't.
AgentJayZ 1 year ago 7
The earth is now turning a little faster :p
hunterhalo2 1 year ago
How do you hold the engine so it dosent go away? And could you explain what's happening at the very beginning of the vid? Thanks :) God bless
HJtuner 1 year ago
@HJtuner The engine is held in a structural steel stand, bolted to a skid made of steel I-beams, which is set in the concrete floor.
The very beginning of the video shows us starting the engine with the start cart.
The operator of the start cart can not see the operator of the engine, so Big Al is relaying the signal from the control room to the start cart guy that he can shut of the engine in the start cart.
AgentJayZ 1 year ago
At 0.52 secs I see 5700 rpm.
Is it the Idle rpm?
TheTravis82 1 year ago
@TheTravis82 Idle is about 5000 rpm, and the engine doen't really start to make any thrust until about 6500. Max power is about 7200-7400 rpm.
AgentJayZ 1 year ago
Do afterburners increase or decrease fuel consumption? or is it just the same on or off?
cowsrock94 1 year ago
@cowsrock94 The afterburner increases fuel consumption by over 100% and increases thrust by 50%, so in terms of fuel used per pound of thrust, it decreases it.
Absolute fuel consumption is 37 gpm max military for this engine, and 87 gpm at full AB.
The afterburner can not be activated unless the engine is at max rpm and power.
The afterburner burns more fuel "after" the last stage of the turbine, so it has no effect on rpm of the engine.
AgentJayZ 1 year ago
imagine standing in front if the business end....
ValuedVAZ 1 year ago
That’s actually a good idea if the engine was overhauled from damaged aircraft if there was a way to lock it down on a trailer then use it to clear snow off a road very easily maybe.
Jhorak101 1 year ago
@Jhorak101 This engine is going back into a Starfighter, but other, less powerful jets have been used to dry runways and racetracks.
They are fitted with a nozzle that expands to a huge size, so they use heat to dry water, not thrust to blow it away.
AgentJayZ 1 year ago
@AgentJayZ take a look here:
(search for) "HeraldNet: Huge Blow dryer"
AgentJayZ 1 year ago
@AgentJayZ
Yes NASCAR could use something like that or city street dept to clear roads with a fitted nozzle thanks AgentJayZ.
Jhorak101 1 year ago
After studying some thermodynamics in 1st year engineering, it's amazing to appreciate what's going on in there. Never thought the Nozzle would be such an important part of the engine. Can't wait to get out there :)
Flatline89 1 year ago
When people say dry and wt thrust what does that mean ?
DreamAboutSpace 1 year ago
@DreamAboutSpace Dry is regular running, wet is with afterburner/reheat (and the highest achievable thrust for the engine).
joeceph 1 year ago
How much thrust does one of these engines produce dry and wet?
bamaslamma1003 1 year ago
@bamaslamma1003
Dry the thrust is in the neighborhood of 12,000 lbs. With afterburner it will make about 18,000lbs thrust.
I say about because it really depends how hard and hot you run it.
You can always have more power, at the expense of engine life. In a military fighter, are there really any limits?
AgentJayZ 1 year ago
@AgentJayZ whats the weight of the engine itself?
phil656565 1 year ago
@phil656565 about 3,400 lbs, without afterburner. Add about 600 lbs or so for the afterburner equipment.
AgentJayZ 1 year ago
now imagine you are a pilot "sitting" above 2 of them?!
bluecollarboiler 1 year ago
i have always thought the exhaust pipes on the ends of those engines were creepy looking... i don't know why... just the way they expand and contract freaks me out.
Catz0125 1 year ago
@Catz0125 That is a very original, honest, and interesting comment.
They do almost look alive, don't they?
AgentJayZ 1 year ago
where does that high pitch screech come from in the beginning?
noper12345 1 year ago
@noper12345 The J79 is started by an onboard air turbine starter that uses compressed air to turn the main rotor.
The compressed air is supplied to the starter by a "start cart", which contains a small turbine engine spinning at around 35,000 rpm. The noise at the very beginning of this video is made by the start cart.
You can get a good look at the start cart firing up in "starting a large turbine engine"
AgentJayZ 1 year ago
J-79? Wasn't that engine in the Phantom?
Stover36 1 year ago
@Stover36 Yes, the Phantom II used two J79's. They were also used in the B58 Hustler and the F104 Starfighter.
The engines were also license-built in several other countries for use in other aircraft...
AgentJayZ 1 year ago
wouldnt the hot gas ignite the unburn fuel when the igniter didn't work?
nguyentuan1990 1 year ago
I was wondering if jet engines have some kind of ignition system, do they use spark to just get them started or so they have a continous "ignition"? second is the purpose of the nozzle getting smaller at higher rpm to make the pressue of the exhaust gas higher to make more thrust? Why do they call " full throttle" and "after burner"
just wondering thanks
Jettamike18 1 year ago
I was wondering if jet engines have some kind of ignition system, do they use spark to just get them started or so they have a continous "ignition"? second is the purpose of the nozzle getting smaller at higher rpm to make the pressue of the exhaust gas higher to make more thrust? Why do they call " full throttle" and "after burner"
just wondering thanks
Jettamike18 1 year ago
@Jettamike18 Yes they have ignitor plugs, and use a very healthy spark. The ignition system is only needed to start the fuel burning. One good spark is all you need, and then the combustion is continuous.
AgentJayZ 1 year ago
@Jettamike18 The nozzle: The engine makes very little power until almost max revs. The nozzle converts the power into thrust. It opens up at lower rpms to make the thrust zero. It starts to close down as the power builds to a level that would be useful to an aircraft.
AgentJayZ 1 year ago
@Jettamike18 Full throttle is max engine revs and fuel flow without the AB. The nozzle is set to an area tha maximises acceleration of the gases produced by combustion.
There is still oxygen in the exhaust, so more fuel can be sprayed ito it and lit. This is called an afterburner, because the fuel is added and burned after ( behind) the last stage of the turbine.
AgentJayZ 1 year ago
@Jettamike18 Also, there is no "ignition" in a jet engine, rather, there is a continuouse flame in the combustion chamber. During start up to light the initiall fire, and at in some aircraft at critical points in time (take off and landing) the sparkers are activated to reduce the risk of flameout (the fire int he combustion chambre cceases to exist)
yellowajah 1 year ago
I have some question and I am doing a report on a f414 engine from GE. I I am wondering how there engines fire do they have a constant firing system or just to get them started, do they use a type of spark to ignite the fuel? second is the purpose of the nozzle to make a smaller opening to make the pressure of the air coming out higher to then inturn to make more thurst? why do they call full throttle afterburners?
just curious about these engines.
Jettamike18 1 year ago
what kind of thrust at full throttle are we talking on this engine? have to say im absolutely facinated by these and how they work. would love too see this for myself.
FIREBLADESrule 1 year ago
@FIREBLADESrule This was a while ago, but I think when we got the AB working, we measured just over 19,000lbs of thrust.
The engine was accepted by the customer and reinstalled in the aircraft.
AgentJayZ 1 year ago
I'd love to put a massive block of ice in the jet stream and see how long it took to melt!
markyyyyyyyy321 1 year ago
Hi AgentJayZ,
are there two different types of afterbruner ingnitors for the J-79 engine ?
In the Video "Grosseto F104 going back to the base in the dark !!!" you will see at 3:54 a little light in the engine.
I never saw this ignitor on german f-4f phantom.
The J-79 engine is very old, but still very grandiose !
Thank you for the videos !
ugott1 1 year ago
I just watched that vid, and it's really good. The light you see at 3:54 is the torch ignitor, and it's the exact same one used in our engine.
I believe it is the same type of AB ignitor used in the F-4.
AgentJayZ 1 year ago
how much money on fuel was blasted away....?
in the 2minutes^^
streetswepaa 1 year ago
In two minutes? I don't know.
But the afterburner makes the total fuel consumption of the engine 87 gallons per minute.
At full power without AB, it's 37 gpm.
Afterburners are very expensive!
AgentJayZ 1 year ago
I love Turbojets and Turbofans
markyyyyyyyy321 1 year ago
Me too!
Everybody you see in the vid feels the same way.
AgentJayZ 1 year ago
@AgentJayZ Yea they are awesome Engineering, and I am sooo happy because I applied for an Engineering Apprenticeship at Rolls-Royce and they phoned me up yesterday and offered me a place! I will be learning how to make Jet Engines! Royces Turbojets are amaaaazing
markyyyyyyyy321 1 year ago
Congrats!!
FREAK9364 1 year ago
i keap drueling. jaw droping stuff
DARKJURNEY 1 year ago
How quickly can a turbojet (or any jet engine really) throttle up? Is there a term for that?
I vaguely remember reading somewhere that if a fighter pilot doing a carrier landing misses, or has a cable break, they can throttle up and not fall into the ocean, and when I thought about it it came to me that if the engine throttles up to fast you might snuff the flame? Is that true?
jtmatta 2 years ago
As far as I know, during a carrier landing , the pilot pushes the throttle to full power as soon as the wheels touch down, and only backs off when he knows the cable is hooked and hasn't broken.
Whether or not he uses afterburner, I'm not sure, but others will soon let us know.
AgentJayZ 2 years ago
As for throttle response, I've heard that the J79 is one of the best engines out there.
I don't know anything about the newer engines, but part of the test shown in this video was to advance the throttle from idle to full military in one second.
That's min rpm to max rpm.
The afterburner does not affect engine rpm. It burns fuel by mixing with the exhaust stream after it leaves the core of the engine...
AgentJayZ 2 years ago
He/she goes up to maximum mil-power, he doesnt go over the hump into AB1
If the pilot misses the cable for sure the pilot would then go into max AB and reset for a new attempt.
phantomTomcat1985 2 years ago 3
ummm, how does the environmental guys feel about that unburnt fuel spraying over all that nice clean countryside? i see a future in canadian superfund cleanup projects!
HapticX 2 years ago
This is a very rare occurence... but you have a point there...
AgentJayZ 2 years ago
just a thought! i was an electronic tech at Pratt Whitney Acft in Middeltown CT for a while. watched them carve the massive chunks of titanium into sweet beautiful hubs and rotor spindles on power hungry ECM devices. totally awesomme! they had a HIP machine prototype that caste? some of the most flawless blades i have ever seen! and the test area i think had 8 stations, used to rumble the production floor when they did some tests. it was a really cool job!
HapticX 2 years ago
How about all those commercial planes dumping several thousand gallons of fuel in the open prior an emergency landing?
turbinetechca 1 year ago
@turbinetechca it evapourates no joke i couldnt believe it either
roryj123ok 1 year ago
how do you keep that thing from "taking" off" ?
hope2prosper 2 years ago 2
lol its bolted down
CianThEfuR 2 years ago
How much time take the engine to run from idle power to full power ? As far as i know, the GE J-79 was one of the first military engine with a "amazing" speed up to full power.
ugott1 2 years ago 2
Part of this test was increasing throttle from idle to full power in one second.
The J79 does have amazing throttle response.
AgentJayZ 2 years ago
That's a sound that I sure miss. I worked test cell at MCAS El Toro in the late 80's. VMFP-3 was still flying and we had the -79 in house all the time.
jasfromoz 2 years ago
Una buena manera de quitar la nieve de la entrada de la casa.
garci02 2 years ago
The boss has a boat with a 400 Hp Allison 250 C-18 in it.
The thing weighs 150 lbs.
It would easily fit in your car.
650 ft-lbs of torque.
6,000 rpm output.
They go for 10K or more on Ebay.
We could put one in for you.
You'd have more fun doing it yourself.
AgentJayZ 2 years ago
I'd definitely need to beef up the driveline first, that's for sure. The T-5 is only rated to 300 ft-lbs - it's the V6.
I would probably end up with a Rolls Royce Nimbus, it's only $5,000 but still produces a respectable 710 SHP. At 600lbs, I think I'd lose my light and nimble V6 handling though D:
robf93 2 years ago
Turbines are not so great for throttle response, and they are terrible for fuel economy at anything less than full output.
Still they are cool.
Why did I think the Nimbus was 1100?
Two people have said they are 700 today...
AgentJayZ 2 years ago
Maybe different marks of the engine? The Mk 101 I was looking at was listed as 710 SHP by the seller, but is supposed to make 1050 SHP.
The idea I've always toyed with is adding a throttle quadrant to the center console, pre-spool the engine, and then use a suitably robust release clutch as the gas pedal. That way the turbine is already making gobs of power by the time it's needed.
Now all the twizzler driveshafts, that's another matter...
robf93 2 years ago
I could try to give you my ideas, but I haven't done it.
I think you could make it happen, but you need to talk to Krugtech, or somebody else who has actually made it work.
A direct drive turbine powered dragster-type car is a very rare animal indeed.
Fun to drive, though.
AgentJayZ 2 years ago
There's no way I'd try to go through with it without talking to those who've managed to make it work or at least bench tests that support the theory.
The current method that I'm working with is a fluid torque converter with variable vanes; the concept being that the slip of the torque converter will provide graduation while allowing the engine to run full out.
Making the internals robust enough is the real challenge. Fortunately 3D CAD and C&C machines have come a long way in affordability!
robf93 2 years ago
If you guys ever get a J-75/JT4A on that stand, you make sure to let me know :D
Excellent videos.
robf93 2 years ago
If you know of any J-75s I want to buy one.
If you know where a J-75 P19-W is, you call me right now.
S&S Turbines 250 785 5272
Maddex Turbines 250 262 2030
I'm either at one or the other.
OK?
AgentJayZ 2 years ago
Yes sir!
Not sure which version, but there's a military J75 here in the Ottawa Aviation museum from the Avro Arrow program. Maybe I can try to convince 'em to let me sneak it out under the guise of, err, "cleaning"... :D
Sure won't fit in my Mustang's trunk though!
The Isreali air force has a 707-320 rotting in a field somewhere with JT4A's. Ex-Sabena, I think. Not only that but they re-engined a 707 with JT3D's in 2003, so they must have the old JT4A's somewhere.
robf93 2 years ago
Also an old Air France 707-320 was spotted in a field with it's JT4's out in the late 90s. Not sure where.
GE's 707 testbed N707GE was retired in the late 90's/early 00's, and it had JT4's as well. They're long gone though, I think.
Weren't there 1,300 FT4 stationary ones made though? I wonder where they wound up...
robf93 2 years ago
It wasn't fitted on early F-16's; an F-16 that was already manufactured was adapted to use the J79 as a prototype for a weaker export version. The F-16/79 as it was called required one ton of extra heat shielding and a modification to the rear fuselage to fit the longer engine.
Foreign countries ended up getting Reagan to nullify Carter's non-proliferation rules and thus the F-16/79 prototype was the first and last built. The P&W powered F-16 outperformed it in every way.
Cool plane, though.
robf93 2 years ago
Ah, I see this was already covered earlier. I didn't know about the top speed difference, though!
The RR Spey-powered F4 had similar results; better low-altitude performance at a cost to top speed and high-altitude acceleration.
robf93 2 years ago
Just under 20,000lbs of thrust is about 10 tons.
The stand is 6X6 and 8X8 structural steel, welded to steel pilings driven 16 feet into the ground, and set in the concrete pad which is the entire test cell floor.
It could probably hold over 100 tons easily.
AgentJayZ 2 years ago
With that much thrust how can that stand keep the engine from taking off?
cakbaldwin 2 years ago
One thing everyone forgets is that although the J79 was an AWESOME jet engine. It did have a big draw back it did smoke alot. The F100's burn much cleaner....
Hannitysgay 2 years ago
That is true, and from what I've read, the
F4 pilots in Vietnam hated the fact that their aircraft left great black smoketrails in the sky.
The industrial version of this engine - the LM1500, which is featured in some of my other videos - uses a newer design of the combustor liner.
These are called "low-smoke" cans, and they do produce much less smoke, because they promote far more efficient combustion of the fuel.
AgentJayZ 2 years ago
According to Wikipedia, they ended up resorting to running one J79 in idle and the other in full afterburner to get around that problem!
robf93 2 years ago
I was wondering where I can find a J-79. I am an instructor at an A & P school in MI. It does not have to be running, but I would like it to be complete for restoration purposes. Any help would be appreciated.
xf8b1 2 years ago
Yes, you can contact us at 250-785-5272.
AgentJayZ 2 years ago
hardcore!!!
hardertom 2 years ago
Very cool video!
One thing - The J79 was never used in production F-16s. One prototype was built and flew around 100 hours, but none were ever sold to foreign countries. It was an attempt to get around the ban of exporting the F-15 & F-16's F100 engines. Once that ban was lifted the F-16/79 research ended.
Guysm1l3y 2 years ago 5
Yes and there was another slight difficulty:
Although less fuel efficient, the J79 engine propelled the airframe to a higher top speed.
Can't have that, now, can we?
AgentJayZ 2 years ago
Faster only in a straight line MAX AB run, which is not where fighters spend much time. All the thermal insulation that had to be added to the engine bay (2,000 pounds of steel sheeting) also made the airframe heavier and more sluggish than the F100 powered F-16, combined with the lower thrust of the J79 it made the F-16/79 a less effective aircraft.
Guysm1l3y 2 years ago
One thing I can say for certain: You know more about that program than I do.
I thank you for your info, and I will be referring all questions about J79 powered F-16s to you. OK?
AgentJayZ 2 years ago
awesome!
joemosss 2 years ago
It makes a tornado!
74AC240PC 2 years ago
2:39 thats hottt...
rarf2142 2 years ago
What happens to all the raw fuel on the ground? JP8 is VERY toxic and will go right into the ground water, DONT DRINK YOUR FAUCET WATER! LOL
zookie85 2 years ago
We're not burning JP-8 here.
It's called P-80; sort of a diesel cocktail that can substitute for kerosene.
I'm sure it's OK to drink.
AgentJayZ 2 years ago
Hi, thanks for the video! This P-80 fuel produce the same power on the engine?
gustavorocha78 2 years ago
Yes. Turbine engines are different than piston engines.
The P-80 has less energy per unit of weight than kerosene so the engine just burns more for a given power output.
The power output is limited by the turbine inlet temperature limit.
Whatever amount of fuel flow is needed to get the combustion gases to that value... that's what the engine will burn.
Higher "quality" fuels will be burned at a lower rate to produce a given power, but this is not a consideration in industrial engines.
AgentJayZ 2 years ago
First of all, nice video's no better sound than a starting jet engine. esp. the J79.
My question is; what is the max RPM when the J79 is running at full throttle?
BOUKITO 2 years ago
The max rpm is nominally 7200 rpm.
Since this is a military engine, its rpm limit will be set by the mechanics who are installing it in the aircraft.
They don't tell us those sorts of things.
We use 7200 rpm.
Since the aftrburner fuel is burned "downstream" of the last turbine stage, it does not affect engine rpm.
AgentJayZ 2 years ago
amazing enginge! i just cant get enough of theese videos!
rambothemann 2 years ago
How long does the afterburners last for most fighter planes?
JPHLIPERS 2 years ago
Usually bout 15min. Im not sure i dink 10-15min afterburners drain the fuel of the jet so its not how long it can last its how much fuel is in the jet determines how long it can go.
vzdragon 2 years ago
With this engine, the afterburner increased fuel consumption from 37 gal per minute to 87 gpm.
The thrust was increased by about 50%.
As vzdragon says, the afterburner lasts as long as the fuel does.
AgentJayZ 2 years ago
Untill the fuel runs out :P
theenforcer13 2 years ago
Gas Turbine Engines are amazing pieces of kit. Im more of a High Bypass fan myself.
RB211 <3
punisher1990 2 years ago
The J79 was a revolutionary engine when introduced in the late 50's.
It was one of the first engines to use variable stators to make a huge improvement in throttle response, and it was one of the most powerful jet engines of its day.
It was indeed mass-produced - thousands of them were produced by GE, and hundreds more produced by licensees in other counrties.
Some were built by IAE in Israel, and some were built by Orenda in Canada.
Every F-4, F-104, and B-58 was powered by this great jet.
AgentJayZ 2 years ago
This particular test is of an IAE engine, making close to 19,000lbs thrust with afterburner.
Another of my videos: afterburner in your face is of a J-79 built in Canada by Orenda. It made about the same thrust, and passed its test as well.
If you look around YT, you can find the film of the first test flight of the then new J-79.
It was in a pod slung from a 4-engine jet bomber of the day. They shut down all 4 engines, and the J-79 easily powered the plane.
AgentJayZ 2 years ago
nice jet engine, SOUNDS FUCKING GREAT------------
mackfeck 2 years ago
I think you may be talking about the un-ducted fan engine.
They have their pros and cons. I think the turbofan ( ducted fan ) engine will remain dominant.
AgentJayZ 2 years ago
What do you know about Open Rotor Jet Engines? I heard NASA and GE are trying to revive them, cause their fuel efficient, but I dont really understrand how they work
socc3rfanatic1 2 years ago
holy jet blast!!! lol
truckntractorhick 2 years ago
awesome
Myworld691 2 years ago
incredible feat of engineering. beautiful
cogknack 2 years ago
I saw the answer about the nozzle, but are both nozzles controlled (primary and secondary) or just the primary?
deville69btk 2 years ago
Sorry I din't see you question sooner.
Do you mean the fuel nozzles, or the variable-area exhaust nozzle?
AgentJayZ 2 years ago
no problem.the exhaust nozzle. i found some info online that say that they are a mecanical linkage between the nozzles?
deville69btk 2 years ago
The exhaust nozzle is what turns this great fuel-burning hot gas generator into a jet engine. The nozzle causes the hugely expanding volume of gas produced by the burning of the fuel in the air to accelerate.
Throw the gas backward at maximum speed, and the plane moves forward.
An example: try to blow out a candle with your mout wide open.
Impossible.
Now do the usual, and purse your lips into a "nozzle" that accelerates your breath into a high speed stream.
Easy now, eh?
AgentJayZ 2 years ago
The exhaust nozzle is changed in area by four hydraulic cylinders that push long arms which move the segments of the nozzle inward or outward, depending on fuel flow and temperature. If the pilot calls foe AB, but it does not light for whatever reason, the nozzle will stay in the smaller non-AB position.
Thrust is produced by the nozzle, and if it were to open to the AB position, and the AB did not light off, all thrust would be lost.
AgentJayZ 2 years ago
You can actually see that here in this video.
When we are dumping fuel into the jetpipe, but the AB ignitor is not functioning, you see the cloud of unburnt fuel... but you also see that the nozzle stays in the smaller setting of full, non-AB power.
Later, when the ignitor is working, and the AB is roaring, you see the nozzle open up to the larger area which maximizes tha acceleration of the larger volume of gas produced by the extra heat of burning the AB fuel.
AgentJayZ 2 years ago
Whats the Horsepower on this engine?
Suddenly i have a craving for campfire hotdogs ;)
lawgical12 2 years ago
Horsepower?
See.. that's the funny thing:
On every one of my other videos, which are of industrial gas turbines, normally rated in shaft Hp, people keep asking me "HP? aren't they supposed to be rated by thrust?"
And here, in my only video of an actual jet engine, rated in thrust, not Hp... you are asking the same Q, only in reverse.
All I can tell you is that the same engine, without the afterburner, is rated at about 15,000HP.
AgentJayZ 2 years ago
hahahaha normally the measure is in kn (kilonewtons)
619cactusjack 2 years ago
The J79 is a powerhouse for sure. Does anyone know how it stacks aginst newer engines of today?
CoolasIce2 2 years ago
What's the hose going into the inlet for?
I'd hate to be the groundskeeper for this site. :)
jonesmbones 2 years ago
The blue hose is supplying air at about 30 psi from the start cart to the onboard air turbine starter, which turns the main shaft of the engine via a planetary reduction gear up to starting rpm.
The groundskeepers are a family of wild deer.
AgentJayZ 2 years ago
This is great for the environment :-)
hbengtsson 2 years ago
fuck pollution when you can go super sonic
SFEplaya 2 years ago 8
But what if u could go super sonic and reduce the pollution :D!!
Asim2846 2 years ago 2
I know the engine of this type. It is j79-ge-11a. I have an experience that this maintained in the air force.
bulklod 2 years ago
Actually, it's a J79-J1E. Like the "more info" tab says. -11 are out of F104 Startfighter. J1E are out of Kfir.
aruju01 2 years ago
This is for one of them jet cars right? I mean this footage, I remember seeing this on TV and it was for a jet powered car attemtping for speed records no?
op3l 2 years ago
This is another J79, tested a couple of years later than the one used in the North American Eagle.
This one is back in the fighter jet it came from.
AgentJayZ 2 years ago
yeah i remember seing this too
elzacatecano11 2 years ago
BTW, a question to you: What about noise issues with the community around you? Where is your test stand? Thank you for sharing those great videos... Did you ever fire up F-16 engines, as well? Those are even louder, I think, than the J79...
Kaefermicha 2 years ago
50 gallons per minute? OMG, that's insane!
Herooftheday64 2 years ago
That's just the afterburner fuel flow. At full power, the engine burns 37 gal/min.
On full AB, the engine you see here is burning 87 gallons per minute of kerosene fuel.
AgentJayZ 2 years ago
How much are theses to buy??
I2apidFire 2 years ago
You can have one of these without the afterburner for about the price of a nice car.
AgentJayZ 2 years ago
J-79 ---> F-104
cerbero23yautja 2 years ago
Hmm, from a Kfir.... Where is the Kfir from, Colombia? Most J79 powered planes are coming out of service and I don't see a reason for restoring them.... Is this for training?
MingGuoLi 2 years ago
This engine has been returned to service and is functioning well.
AgentJayZ 2 years ago
The Kfir is an israeli aircraft, based on the cell of the D´Assault Mirage III. With the J79 powerplant and some other changes like canards. Colombia and Ecuador have some Kfir´s on service, and the United States too (aggressor squadrons).
Adolfinthemix 2 years ago
I know that, but I didn't think that the Southern Americans would move their stuff this far North for repairs. And the USAF has already retired their F-21s. Returned to Israel and I think resold to South America....
MingGuoLi 2 years ago
The OEM was taking 3 times as long and charging more than twice as much for repairs as we did here in the Frozen North.
AgentJayZ 2 years ago
Lots of phantoms are still used. Germany retires them in 2012, Greece, Turkey and Iran will use them even longer...
Kaefermicha 2 years ago
LOL cook ur tea on that in seconds i want one.
hotdogjunior 2 years ago
Jet engines have to be tested... There are companies like Lufthansa Technik that do maintenance on planes...
By the way, wasn't it the Hungarians who devised a way to blow out oil-well fires using jet engines?
Malaka57 3 years ago
Where are all these tests used for, for fun or has it a specific purpose?
danavyor 3 years ago
Well I hope there's a purpose.
Each of these tests requires the paid efforts of three to four people working for about 4 days, and about 5 thousand litres of fuel.
Each of the engines you see tested here has had several hundred thousand dollars of repair/ overhaul work and parts put into it.
No kidding.
AgentJayZ 3 years ago
you know they are TESTING an engine for fun, just to dry the floor.....cant you see the word TESTING!
AdrianNtart 2 years ago
Yes, that is by far the most common comment.
There is another video of an even more powerful snow-blasting jet that I just put up about an hour ago. It's called "jet power : very loud!!"
Be warned, I could not edit the sound so it is loud.
AgentJayZ 3 years ago