Surprise, You're Dead! - 14.05.97 - Faith No More

[AngelicStorm1]

Mike Patton wrote the lyrics to this one, so Jim Maritn didn't write it "singlehandedly". Also, people go on about how without Jim there would be no FNM, when the fact is FNM would have stagnated had he remained in the band. He only had a hand in the writing of 2 songs on "Angel Dust", considered by most fans as their magnum opus. He was also uncomfortable with the band's schizophrenic, unique style. To evolve, and become and even more unique and great band, they had to get rid of Jim.

[leezus83]

jim would get a royalty for this performance, so he can't complain too much. I think if FNM would have carried on with Jim they would have died in the water, his contribution to the band is legendary because he left at the right moment, this would nnot have been the case otherwise.

[sergiodelroser]

Jim Martin was good....but i think he only was limited to one kind of music..... and patton wanted to experience some other things.....as you can see.....now come to europe and buy a ticket suckers......for those who dont know they are playing all over

[ibanezmancons]

Jim was out of place on stage anyway.

Bottum, Bordin and especially Gould and Patton brought an energy to the stage, and played like they weren't going to have another chance.

With Jim... he just stood there.

This is not to say that Mr Martin wasn't very good, I'd kill for his guitar sound on 'Surprise...'. I just don't agree with all the people who say FNM died with his departure. If anything they grew stronger.

[steelerfreak1977]

I'm not belittling the merits of creativity at all. I'm emphasizing that, in my opinion, FNM were a superior band with Jim Martin as their guitarist. You obviously disagree.

And as for them moving on to far more creative horizons, I submit that The Real Thing and Angel Dust are leagues ahead in terms of pure creativity than King or Album.

[gouldbass]

To say that TRT and AD are leagues ahead in terms of creativity has got fuck all to do with Jim Martin.

If you listen to Angel Dust, Martin only had input on Kindergarten & Jizzlobber. So you should stop listening to the other 10 tracks on that album. They must clearly suck -by your logic.The only thing good about Martin was his guitar tone.

If you lost Gould, Bordin or Bottum, then you've lost the essence of this band. But Martin? Nah. I like his style and Trey's.

[steelerfreak1977]

Was Jim Martin part of the lineup that created Angel Dust or wasn't he? And to say Jim Martin wasn't a part of the "essence" of the band, when he was there basically from the beginning, is preposterous. Let's not let personal feelings get in the way of facts.

[gouldbass]

It is a well-known fact that the majority of their songs were written by Bordin, Bottum & Gould + Patton (post 1989).

Therefore, the facts state that this "pure creativity" has very little to do with him and very much to do with the other band members.

"FNM were a superior band with Jim Martin as their guitarist." You rightly stated that this is your opinion, therefore part of your personal feelings. Dont bring that into the argument.

[steelerfreak1977]

My only point is that my favorite albums by FnM were with Jim Martin as their guitarist. The other guy started in on "creative horizons" and I merely pointed out that IMO their most "creative" albums were with Martin on guitar.

By the way, nice name, Billy Gould is one of my favorite bassists.

[Zardoz99]

They sucked after Jim Martin left.

[shreddedhamster]

There's always one, isn't there? Always one 'fan' crying over the sacking of Jim Martin.

Jim was certainly an integral part of the band's sound in those days, but he was clearly at odds with the other members and what they stood for musically. Instead of churning out more records featuring the same old guitar playing, they got rid of him and moved on to far more creative horizons.

[Javdoc]

Make that two then... ;) This song's just not the same without him.

[steelerfreak1977]

Yeah, make that three. Oh, and screw your "creative horizons", give me Jim Martin.

[shreddedhamster]

Screw "my" creative horizons? So basically what you're saying is screw everything the band were ever about? If Jim Martin's riffing is all you care about then just go listen to his solo album, whatever the hell it was called.

[steelerfreak1977]

Don't put words in my mouth. You act as if Martin was pretty much just a meaningless replaceable cog when that couldn't be further from the truth. Their best work is with him as the guitarist.

[shreddedhamster]

Actually I was just paraphrasing your previous comment; to me it seems absurd for a FNM fan to belittle the merits of creativity, since that's a major part of what the band were always about.

And if you read my first post then you'd see that I'd already admitted Jim Martin was an important part of FNM's sound in the early days. I don't consider his input 'meaningless' at all, but simply feel the band ran their course with him, and went on to write music that was just as amazing without him.

[fusionfreq]

1.13  Blieeghhits not over yet.!!! hahaha

[fusionfreq]

he gets better and better every live gig, voice is awesome .

[Zkidoo]

FINE!

[Polansk1]

What venue is this???

[psy007]

Wow, thats awesome. Thanks.