Depth of Field - The Three Rules | Photography | DOF |Camera

[AlMayer1100]

Light field technology will make this kind of rules obsolete :)

[surfsidet0m]

There are 3 rules. And sensor size? hehe

[MichaelTheMentor]

@surfsidet0m Sensor size is Rule #4 :)

[cameraperson]

the bigger the (f) number (without the inverse), the smaller the opening, the larger the DOF

The end.

[ZXAnimal]

look a his face and say jim carrey out loud

[XxSpartaxX]

my god three or four times he said "YOU MUST memorize these rules" holy shit if i forget one this instructor will have me on the whipping post LOL

[MichaelTheMentor]

@XxSpartaxX Thats right!! ;)

[XxSpartaxX]

@MichaelTheMentor LOL

[Brambledemon]

It seems every site that I go to uses a different term for DOF. I've never heard the term thicker. Deeper vs shallow dof is the most common. Deep(the background in focus) shallow means (the background is blurred) Right? I just purchased my first decent camera-thanks for the tutorials!

[olegnabunyi]

deeper or thicker whatever,. x)) I still love photography

[SnapHappyChappy]

Excellent. Thanks. I can absorb things in short bursts like this.

[willtheweird]

Dude, but no one cares about how wide the lens is, a better way to say it would be the more telephoto you have in a lens, or the longer the focal length, the MORE dof. Because you dont usually look for less dof in a lens...

[thenyismylove]

this guy looks hilarious!!! hahaha what a weirdo

[Hageeisanass]

Deeper, dude, deeper.

[masternonoy1]

love this  video..thank u for posting...

[brandy1000sissy]

Loved the lesson.

[brandy1000sissy]

a 50mm lens has the same depth of field as a 200mm lens. If you keep the size of the person the same in both photos of course this means you would have to be alot further away with the 200mm. The 50mm lens would have more background but depth of field is the same.

[MichaelTheMentor]

@brandy1000sissy  DOF increases with distance away from subject. If you are shooting from the same distance with 2 different focal lengths, one wide and one tele-photo- the wider lens will have more DOF.

[brandy1000sissy]

@MichaelTheMentor Yes you are right the wider lens does have a greater depth of field, but if i took a photo of you with a 50mm lens and then walked back and took a photo with a 100mm and kept you the same size in the photo, depth of field would be the same.

[MichaelTheMentor]

@brandy1000sissy There are several ways to compensate for loss of DOF between lenses, as you mention controlling relative distance is one, stopping down your aperture or even using a camera with smaller size recording media are others. Beginners need the rules separated in a simple way and this was the aim of the video. What you are suggesting is combining two of the rules together. A 50mm Lens has a deeper DOF than a 200mm lens when used on the same subject from the same distance.

[shok2death]

we capture some landscape image in the mountain lately and im not impressed with the sharpness of my photos,is it because of my lens?my camera lens is sigma dg 28-70mm 1:2.8-4

[daynights]

When trying to share knowledge with someone remember the rule of KISS ( keep It Simple Stupid) learning is for all but teaching is only for some the only good teacher is one that can make the lesson obtainable to most in a way that they in turn can take that information and teach another an so on and so forth, not criticizing you just sharing. Peace

[MichaelTheMentor]

@daynights LOL-Was it not clear?

[squelchy451]

@daynights I thought it was pretty clear...

[joseasmain]

I need more tips and techniques about micro or macro! Thanks for the knowledge .

[priestfielddom]

Rule 3 is perpetuating a myth among photographers. A wide angle lens will have exactly the same depth of field (DOF) as a telephoto lens if the subject is the same size in the frame. A photo taken with a wide angle lens but at the same distance from the subject would have a smaller DOF than a telephoto lens because the subject is smaller in the frame, therefore apparently further away. This is simply rule two again. Proof: Google 'focal length and depth of field' and click the link 'DOF2'.

[MichaelTheMentor]

@priestfielddom What you are essentially saying is that an object shot from 2 different lenses with the same focal length will have the save depth of field, which is correct. This is not true however when we are talking about the more wide focal lengths, which is the point of the 3rd rule.

[mileylovatox]

So you WONT see the picture blurred in the background WHILE your taking it?

[kynfam]

Here's what he's saying:

to get more of the photo in focus:

small aperture (large f stop number)

your subject is further away

use a wider angle lens

to have less of your photo in focus:

shoot wide open (aperture number is small, ie. f/1.8)

move closer to subject

use a telephoto lens

[shanepe2003]

Thanks for posting this video, i wonder whether if i buy nikon 50mm/1.8F will this lens allow me to take out door shooting (shallow depth field) like eg; spider web cos i kw i will be able to get good shallow depth field for indoor portrait out of this lens where my 18-55 & 55-200 5.6F lens couldnt.

tks

[marsvegs]

thank you for sharing..: )

[crashedtomek]

2. and 3. are kind of the same. With a wider angle, you actually already have a greater distance, thats why you see more

[frenchfrye2000]

love your burns here

[insanelypositive]

Doesn't he look like Johnny Bravo? :p

[stereo123]

Does that mean if I'm using zoom lens I should zoom in AND get closer to the subject if I want a thin depth of field?? How do I do that? Should I give preference to one rule?

[houstonangel34]

I have a Canon PowerShot SX20 IS and I am new to photography and this camera. I get everything you said in the video, but I don't get how to actually accomplish this!? Any help or suggestions please? I don't know how to set my aperture or anything ... so confused.

[flairfilmsUK]

is there something on the camera lens that lets you know how wide the lens is?

[jmalmsten]

@flairfilmsUK

If you know the size of the sensor you can use that knowledge with the focal length (usually written on the lens in "mm"). On a large sensor like the 5D markII, a 50mm is considered normal width, on a crop-sensor like the 7D it's a bit narrow. And on a 1/3" chip that same lens will be a telephoto.

The other way is if there's a Angle of View printed somewhere in the lens documentation. More degrees then means wider lens.

[Corie9012]

Thicker threw me for a loop too. Thanks anyways for the tips.

[sornostrasse]

this is a real tutorial, short but it has something! less talk straight to the point!

thanks man keep up the good work!

[faYte0607]

Bigger aperture size = 20 mm

as opposed to

Smaller aperture size = 55 mm??

I heard they were the opposite and that's what confuses a lot of beginners...........

[oemcleod]

Great post... thanks!

I've visited your website and I've bookmarked it. Thanks again for both mediums.

[jazlisening]

I bought this dvd from you... really helped me with my Canon T1i. Thanks Michael. BTW.. I returned all those extra DVDs just like you instructed. (return to sender)

[richiepr1968]

thanks ELVIS!

[canonheadmk1]

wouldn't it be more accurate to say that a shorter focal length will create a greater DOF?

[MichaelTheMentor]

Beginners confuse "greater" with many things. "Thicker" is easier to understand for them because it deals specifically with a measurement of depth. I teach with beginners in mind, not professionals.

[stevens0music]

very confusing you said on you APERTURE video, in quote, THE WIDER THE LENS, THE THINNER THE DOF. exactly at 1:60 of the video.

[MichaelTheMentor]

Thats right...whats the question....?

[MichaelTheMentor]

Short focal lengths = WIDE ANGLE lenses.

[stevens0music]

u said here at you 3rd rule... the wider the thicker...?

[MichaelTheMentor]

Thats right. The wider angle the lens, the thicker that Depth of Field wall. The Larger the opening in the lens, the thinner it is. I think you are confusing the focal length with the aperture size. Aperture and Focal Length are 2 different things.

[stevens0music]

problem solved! thank you very much! you are og great help for us beginners! i just bought my camera 2 days ago, so i have a lot to learn. i will watch all your videos. thanks again.

[Lihahyytelo]

@MichaelTheMentor

That's wrong though. It just comes the second rule. You're usually farther away optically with a wide angle lens, but if you take a photo with same relative distances, say, the face of a person in portrait is the same size at 40mm as it is in 400mm you would notice the depth of field is exactly the same. The real third rule is the bigger the sensor gathering the light, the shallower the depth of field (or the further away from the sensor the back of the lens is).

[CountryMaster16]

@stevens0music yupm take an 400mm lens make a headshot and you cant even tell was the original background was because you get an such extreme shallow dof

[martinaxman]

"Deeper" would be a better term to describe "depth" of field. Introducing a new term like "thicker" serves to confuse. Thanks for the video though. Good stuff.

[Corwe]

well, if he said "deeper depth" that would sound weird. I cant think of anything better that "thicker" in this case.

[TheBaconroll]

@martinaxman Over the forty years that I worked as a photographer we used the term greater / smaller depth of field. Never heard the term thicker. Deeper relates to going down.

[martinaxman]

@TheBaconroll You obviously missed the point. In the 40 years I''ve been working as a photographer I've used "greater and lesse" or "longer and shorter" to describe depth of field, but that's irrelevant. For someone learning about depth of field the orator should use the correct terminology as shown. To give a better mental picture he used "thicker." Thicker isn't terrible, it's just more opaque IMHO. Listen to it again and put the words in in context. Or maybe it's not that important.

[TheBaconroll]

@martinaxman I did not miss the point. If people are going to try and teach then they should use the correct terminology.

[martinaxman]

@TheBaconroll Yeah ok.

[BloatedSensations]

@canonheadmk1 Focal length does not affect depth of field. It's a myth - albeit a persistent one. A longer focal length creates an illusion of a narrower depth of field, but the actual depth of field does not change between lenses of varying focal lengths. A 30mm lens at f/8, for instance, will give you the exact DOF of, say, a 300mm lens at f/8. However, the background on the 300mm lens will appear to be more out of focus. So, it looks like a narrower DOF. It's a trick of altered perspective.

[A1mikali]

@BloatedSensations The longer the focal length, the larger the aperture needs to be due to lost light. f/8 at 300mm is larger than f/8 at 30mm. To calculate the aperture diameter, you divide the focal length by the f number. This gives you the diameter of the aperture in millimetres. So, for example, 200(focal length in mm) divided by 4 (f number) equals 50 (aperture diameter in mm), whereas 20 divided by 4 equals 5. So the same aperture at 200mm is larger then it is a 20, giving a shallower DoF

[BloatedSensations]

You're failing to account for focal position. Altering the focal position between the two different focal-lengths makes-up for the change in true aperture diameter. To keep the subject/focus-point the same size in frame in shots between two lenses of differing focal lengths, you're going to have to alter focus position. I.e. - move in closer, or focus tighter/loser - which will have the effect of equaling the actual DoF between the two images.

[A1mikali]

@BloatedSensations I'm not failing to account for it at all. If you keep the camera in the same position for each shot, the depth of field will be different. This is due to the different aperture diameter needed. By moving the camera to account for the change in focal length, you are altering the DoF.

[BloatedSensations]

@A1mikali Yes, I believe you are. If you have two separate cameras, both the same distance from the subject, right next to each other, and one camera has, say a 300mm lens and the other, say a 24mm, you're going to get two very different images. If you fill the frame with the subject using the 300mm, the subject in the 24mm shot is going to be surrounded by a great deal of background...

[BloatedSensations]

@A1mikali So, you need to recompose the 24mm shot - move the 24mm camera in tighter until the subject appears as the same size in the frame as it does in the 300mm shot. If you do this, you'll find that the DoF between the two shots are identical. Therefore, it's incorrect to say that focal length alters DoF field - it doesn't. It's merely an illusion. The same shot, no matter the focal length of the lens, will have the same DoF at the same F-stop.

[BloatedSensations]

@BloatedSensations And, I'll ask you: Have you tried it? If not, I'll offer the words of the legendary physicist Richard Feynman:

"It doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is, it doesn't matter how smart you are. If it doesn't agree with experiment, it's wrong”

When I was first told about the DoF/focal-length myth, I refused to believe it as well - until I actually set up, and carried out, an experiment and saw it for myself.

[BloatedSensations]

@A1mikali Like I said before: DoF being altered by focal length is a very persistent myth. But, don't take my word for it. Try it yourself. Take two shots of the same object using different focal lengths, at the same F-Stop, and keep the crop the same in both images. That's what I had to do before I was convinced that it was all just a myth. You'll be surprised to see that there is no difference in DoF between the two shots.

[meiowalot]

He means the size of the depth of field. The range of distances which are in focus at a particular time with particular camera settings. I've never heard the term "thick" used, but he means "large depth of field".

[OreoCookieOreo]

If it were common sense he wouldn't ask people to memorize it. Not everyone is an expert here. You on the other hand lack common sense big time.

[apureterror]

Thicker.. meaning deeper DOF.... less shallow DOF.

[LRCProductionsUS]

when you say "Thicker" DOF, Do you mean that the area in Focus is thinner and you get a very thick area out of focus? or that you can get a thick area of the image in focus?

[wuharrharr]

thicker dof = thicker area which is in focus

watch the video "aperture" from him. it is explained there too

thats what i got

[vidstigge]

This is all very interesting but personally I prefer the directness I get with my Nokia 5140.

[ltgmaddog]

aha idiot.

[mikongo]

An intelligent remark vidstigge that I'm afraid will be lost on these bozos.

[steveavery77]

Brilliant!

[sphiney]

if my lens is 18-200mm would that mean that my lens has a wide angle lens capability?

[AnferStudios]

Yes! 50mm it's normal, anything below that is wide, anything under 24mm it's super wide angle, and anything over 50 it's telephoto, anything over 100mm it's super telephoto. Hope that helps, cheers

[AnferStudios]

By the way i was answering sphiney's question below regarding if his 18-200mm is wide angle.

[profpes]

That depends on whether you have a digital or analog lens. The numbers shift and are relative to the lens factor of your particular camera. I just watched this video, and Michael, this use of 'thick' wrt depth of field is inaccurate. Focal planes do not resolve as thick or thin, they resolve into deeper or more shallow (AKA selective) depth of focus. Changing your terminology will help get your message across more effectively.

[profpes]

(The first part of the answer I gave below was to Sphiney's question from three months ago: "if my lens is 18-200mm would that mean that my lens has a wide angle lens capability?". I'm not certain why my reply jumped to the top of this thread.)

[cesarlopez318]

wide angles lenses... does mean...

>35 mm ???

[MichaelTheMentor]

5mm-35mm

[shownine]

the best mentor i found on the entire you tube for digital photography.you are amaizing for a beginer like me.

[rendy1985]

Michael, I want to buy compact camera that using AA batteries. But I want it has the ability to take some depth of field camera (both shallow DOF and thicker DOF).. Can you suggest what is the best choice for me. My budget is maximum 1.500.000 IDR (Indonesian Rupiahs). It equal to about 163.5 USD. Thanks Michael. Nice Video!

[rendy1985]

I got confused with your video. You said that to get depth of field we need small aperture.. as I know, the truth is we need large aperture (like f1.4 or f2).. Can you explain this?? Thanks

[MichaelTheMentor]

sure...its easy to get confused when learning this- and its possible you have it backwards. Small aperture f numbers correlate with wide openings, f1.4 is a very wide opening, and it has a very shallow (thin) depth of field. An f stop such as f29 has a very small opening, and therefor a much thicker depth of field. It is counter intuitive, and easy to misunderstand when someone is talking about a "small aperture". I hope this helps!

[rendy1985]

Thanks for your reply.. Yes your explanation really helps me.. Now, I know in that video you want to explain about thicker depth of field.. So, the aperture is small.. Is that right??

[MichaelTheMentor]

yes!

[SYSPLUCK]

The more you lense zooms (asuming it's not a prime) the smaller your apperture can become.

That's why on the EOS XT(i) kit lense the maximum apperture is f/3.5 - f/5.6

Because it ddepends on how far in or out you're zoomed.

[jcpowpow]

no its because they didn't put in the technology in order for it to have a constant aperture. that's why most of the l series (pro) lenses have constant apertures. the 18-55 that comes with your camera is a terrible lens.

[Benjamin5050]

Kinda, to hold a smaller F (say f2.8) you really need a bigger peice of glass to aloow the light to maintain the speed through the zoom.. see the Canon EF-s 17-55 this can maintain a f2.8 though the lens, however there are limits. if the zoom range is to long then the light just get get through the lens so the f stop has to take a hit. The widest zoom range i know of with a fixed f stop is the Canon 70-200 with f2.8, it has a huge front & some light bending glass to maintian speed inthe lens

[kristysphotography]

With that summed up like that, it makes it much easier! Thanks for the tips.

[Utuberinboca]

Very helpful. Thanks.

[phxmark123]

Wide angle? I do get good depth of field but I was talking to a photojournalist today and she said she always uses a 70-300mm lens.

[MichaelTheMentor]

all things being equal, say two lenses at f 2.8, at equal distance from a subject, say 15 feet, one is a 100mm lens, the other a 15mm lens, the 15mm lens will have a thicker Depth of Field. Zoom lenses can have thick DOF if they have smaller apertures- this video simply explains the 3 ways you can increase your DOF. I hope this helps. -M

[phxmark123]

I'm sorry, watching the video again I understand that its point was to control the depth of field to get everything in focus. Thanks

[semfoster]

thanks great vid once again .

[tzvika770]

thanx you help