They best blowjobs I've had in my life was during my military days.
Those "secret" rooms on the ship were HEAVEN !!
The gay boys would eye dicks up and down while shower time was in full force and hours later they were chokin' on them in the "secret" rooms. You could hear the slurpin' in the middle of the night clear down the hallway.
@SpectreWriter, forgive me for butting in, but if you don't already know, debunker300 is either a common troll and/or truly disturbed (or stoned/drunk). Click on 'all comments' and you will see for yourself, page after page.
'It' lives here.
'It' does nothing save provoke and irritate and has no other purposes in 'mind'. My advice, for what it is worth, would be to ignore 'it'.
@lduych You're absolutely right. I gave him more attention than he deserved, particularly given the fact that he keeps saying the same stupid thing over and over. Funny how some trolls can get under your skin.
@lduych Thanks, Iduych. I came to that conclusion once I saw he wasn't answering any of my valid points, only getting further and further out in his claims. The guy's a pattern troll, it seems. Unoriginal, even. :(
A shower is a shower is a shower. Nobody is going to come on to you or drool over you. Gay guys have been naked with straight guys in locker rooms and showers their whole lives. It is only a sexual situation in movies and porn. Get over it.
I have spiritual beliefs and I am not down with judging anyone because they don't adhere to my personal thinking. Like if I was dieting would I try to make everyone eat the same foods or would I just do it quietly and realize all I can change is me. I would be sad if there wasn't variety in our world, I just wish everyone could be diplomatic about there differences.
@blockzilla1000 We're not stupid animals. Gay people aren't going to stand there staring at your penis, purposely causing you discomfort. But you make ignorant, retarded comments to make us feel we're weird and unwanted. We just have different feelings than you. Stop fearing it.
It's the closet gays that are of concern for all of us.From passive to violent rapists! They are your next door neighbor, local police officer, hardware store owner, married father of 6, lawyer, farmers,army officer etc.....
Being in the closet isn't just hurting yourself, it's hurting other people.
@MRMILO57 Most violence is not from closet gays. Most violence is from insecure, uneducated straight men. Sure, some bullies have turned out to have sexual issues that they could not face, but that's a huge minority. Just another way of blaming gays. Straight men are more violent. They beat women, they beat men. Many "bisexual" men are actually gay but saying they are bisexual or sleeping with women makes themselves feel more manly than a gay. I have met TONS TONS TONS who really prefer men.
I have a suggestion... put the gay servicemen and women is a unit especially for them. You want to be abnormal... suffer the consequences. NO NORMAL straight guy wants some queer staring at his d!ck. End of problem.
@blockzilla1000 Normal men are not homophobes and could not care less about working and fighting together with other normal men who happen to be gay.
I have yet to see a survey indicating more than 10% of American men as being homophobes. Among women, the figure is less than 4%. It is not a psychological issue among healthy Americans.
It is a religious issue.
To discriminate against an entire segment of society based upon religious dogma is not only unconstitutional, it is immoral.
@1sSxAMxAa1 There are plenty of religious denominations that support gay rights to various degrees, many whole-heartedly. I realize that there are denominations that are particularly anti-gay (Roman Catholic, Mormon) but in reality, most men that "hate" gays, or are embarrassed by their gay children do it for psychological reasons, social embarrassment. Religion is often used as an excuse by straight thugs who never read the Bible, pray or go to church. I have met tons of them.
@1sSxAMxAa1 I've seen parents who had NO religious faith, but reject their children because of social embarrassment, feelings of blame, homophobia. Religion has played a role both for and against gays. Many mainline Protestants have been the most vocal supporters of gay rights and marriage AND gay pastors with partners (Lutheran, Episcopaleon, Reformed, United Churches of Christ (UCC), Society of Friends (Quakers). There are pro-gay movements in almost every denomination in this country.
@1sSxAMxAa1 Your stats are also wrong. Intuitively, antigay legislation (California) has passed in states with much larger percentages, so your stats can not be right. Public opinion is much more divided than the percentages you list. For many, it is a religious issue, but it's not JUST a religious issue. It's cultural. Heterosexual culture and prejudice. It may seem easy to blame it on religion, but in reality I have been harassed and bothered by non-religious straights that disregard gays.
@germanamericanable Society will resolve its cultural/religious problems regarding gays in the military just as it did regarding the different yet (at the time) equally contentious problems it faced when President Truman commanded integration.
America can do it. America must.
Prop 8 is irrelevant. After black integration in the military, societal prejudices, segregation and the KKK remained, yet the military did well.
Relax. Religion will soon find something else to hate.
@1sSxAMxAa1 I agree with you entirely about Truman and commanded integration. But again you are stereotyping "Religion" as if it is some homogeneous entity and again, like racism, it's often just rooted in simple human prejudice and ignorance. Some may use religion as an excuse, some may spout off about "unit cohesion", and some just hate gays because they hate gays. It has more to do with insecure straight men than religion. So I agree with most of what you said, I am just not as anti-religious
I am ant-religion, but I do know the difference between Islam and a Muslim. The later is a human being, the former a religion.
Similarly, when I say I hate religion -- and I most emphatically do hate religion! -- it does not mean that I necessarily dislike individual adherents to any particular religion.
Religious people are, in my eyes, mostly victims. For example, I feel genuinely half sorry for members of the WBC.
The only people I hear complaining about gays in the military are the spineless chicken sh*ts who have never been in the military or couldn't get in. In my units (mid-80's) we were all there mixed in and no one really gave a rats ass and it's not really thought about. If it happens, it happens, no one cared one way or another. In the open showers you went in an did your thing and got out. Horsing around in the showers was mostly done by professed str8 guys, not the gay guys. I am gay military.
wait, wait, i don't CARE if someone already brought this up... but... you never showered with the other guys in gym class in high school? you had to WAIT for basic training?
The military should screen for homophobes. They are a threat to unit cohesion. Their obsession with anything 'gay' inevitably leads to loss of mission focus. Homophobes are getting people killed.
Homophobes need psychiatric help, not boot camp.
Simple psychological testing to root out those who might try to hide their sickness is readily available. There is no excuse for not purging our military of homophobes -- immediately!
the ppl that say theyre tolerant of gays eventually show their homophobe self especially in very close interacting situations or when they have to work together with gays
fact of the matter everyone is hiding at least 40% of homophobia
@lduych Homophobia is like racism. It's always going to exist, but difficulties can be avoided by strict military codes of conduct to fellow servicemen. If someone threatens the cohesion of a unit because they cannot contain their own personal prejudice, than THEY are the ones with the problem. Just as sexual harassment should not be tolerated, neither should antigay behavior. I still think the issue has been blown out of proportion.
@germanamericanable Society must resolve its problems,, just as it successfully came to terms with the different yet (at the time) equally contention difficulties it had with President Truman's command to integrate the military.
America can do it. American soldiers already have!
As to the significance of Prop 8, upon black integration in the military, societal prejudice, segregation and the KKK remained. But the military did well.
Relax. Religion will soon find something else to hate.
@germanamericanable "...Just as sexual harassment should not be tolerated, neither should antigay behavior..."
A comment left yesterday (flagged as spam) reads: "I don't hate gay people because they're gay, I hate gay people because they're faggots." [VEVOTroll 22 hours ago]
The military code of conduct does not apply to civilians. The person above must never be allowed in. If already there, said individual must be immediately removed (even if it means we lose a general, or two).
@lduych I don't understand what point you are trying to make? Military conduct should still reflect law and order towards other individuals and behavioral rules on how servicemen and women treat and interact with others. I don't believe people should be thrown out of the military for their personal beliefs, rather for their actions. A person may have racist thoughts but as long as they don't manifest into behavior problems or produce unfair policy. I don't think I am disagreeing with you.
Though my comment of last did not make it sound so, I essentially agree with you.
What I wish to say in response to your response is not terribly long-winded, but would take more than 500 chars. With your permission, I should like to send to you a PM.
@debunker300 you are just closed minded the fighting ability of brave soldiers (gay and straight) will never be affected by something as harmless as gays serving.
@bazinga1964 I am bi-sexual and served in the army for 10 years and we could talk openly about homosexuality in my unit and even do no one "came out of the closet" I know that we had very few really narrow-minded who oppose the idea of serving with gay people.
As for the guys who had ugly things to say about your video (but truly didn't understand it), Wake up guys. If your in the shower & your looking around at all the other guys, to see if they are checking you out. Then tell me, who's really acting gay? Because whether some of you Str8t guys believe it or not, gay guys don't really like to chase str8t guys, B/C it's like fishing when you don't eat fish (get it?) Why waste the energy? So spend more time making friends cause you'll need em in Battle.
@NYTonyRFTL not only do a lot of gay guys not want to even look at straight guys, but oftentimes find them bullish and unpleasant ...and i dont want to sound rude, but primitive and cave man like. Its mind boggling how big an ego a lot of straight guys have, most gays dont want to have anything to do with straight guys period , they are so boorish..i know of straight guys that try to chase lesbians imagine that ! Of course we are not saying all strt guys are like that, but then majority are !
Wow, 1st I want to say, that I listened to this video a few times...and I still have no idea what your reasoning for making it was, and what you reason for putting it back up was..??? It seems to me that you seem to have repressed issues surrounding communal showers, am I right? Well, you can say, whisper, or shout it from here to the heavens, that you don't, but I have to say that I'm about 98% sure that your issue stems from or with communal showers. Move on and see how much Happier you'll be.
@germanamericanable I am sorry to here that you have had abuse, homophobic people are horrible (I know having received vicious comments from them) I agree that the portrait the media paints of religeous people is fundamentalist and I know that is not a correct picture, let's just agree that homophobia in all circumstances from anyone religeous or not is bad, ok?
@bazinga1964 You got it buddy! You sound rational and intelligent. I defend religion because it's too big of a topic to stereotype or minimize, but I agree with you that it is a major problem for gays. I just like to put information out there that we're not all like that. You are correct. Homophobia is like racism. It comes from all different kinds of people and is always wrong. Peace!
@germanamericanable also if an atheist is homophobic then I have a problem with them too I do not deny there are atheist homophobes, however in my experience there are more religious homophobic people than there are secular homophobic people.
@bazinga1964 Naah. Growing up I took abuse and heard abuse from straight guys that didn't really care anything about religion or church. They were just homophobes. There are plenty of churches (large churches) that support equal rights for gays. My parents had a problem because they blamed themselves for doing something wrong, not because of their religious faith. Fundamentalists are antigay, but even they have other psychological factors going on including culture.
@germanamericanable let me ask you, is it possible to have an opinion about gays that doesn't agree with your own, and it NOT be "homophobic"? I'm always bemused at the utter and complete LACK of the ability of radical gay activists like yourself to formulate a response to a contrary opinion with engaging in schoolyard name-calling. you'll note I've never ONCE used derogatory terms in this conversation...my opinion is about POLICY, not PEOPLE.
@debunker300 You keep calling me "radical" when others on this page (the majority) have expressed the same views as mine. YOU are the one that's in the minority so it seems that you are more likely to be a "radical" or "fanatic". I just look at the facts. You dismiss facts with copout answers about not caring about other countries, when their military procedures prove there is no problem.
@germanamericanable that is great! Those are people I have no quarrel with when I mention religion I am not addressing those denominations, I am addressing the fundamentalists, who are still a problem there may not be many but they sure do have a pair of lungs on them if you catch my meaning ;o)
@bazinga1964 Ok. You got me there. I just think that media plays a large role in portraying all religious people as fundamentalist fanatics. They are given far too much news coverage whereas large mainline churches do not share these views but that doesn't make for exciting news does it? They do the same thing with "evolution". They make fundamentalists sound like the majority when they are the minority. But you're right, some churches (RC, Mormon, Baptist) are anti-gay.
i think the term is "shower shark". the more sophicated gay man just showers and goes on about his business. its the faggot that looks too long and/or makes an unwelcome comment.
@sid348 Plenty of straight guys have penis issues. They worry about size, they make comments. C'mon...we've all been in showers in high school and it was always some insecure loudmouths that were shooting off their mouths. Plenty of straight men check out other straight men...it's not really sexual. They check out physique, penis size. Some obsess about talking about their dicks constantly. It's not generally gay men that exhibit that behavior.
As my father who served in WWII,"it takes 2". Gays were in service then and no one said boo. They had their use. If a guy needed to get off he "knew" where and who to servce him. These things happen. We are sexual beings.
In boat camp, 85 people had 10 minutes to undress, shower and get dressed again with people shouting the whole time--when was there time for a problem?! Fatigue caused by constant motion from reveille to taps makes it difficult to think about sex. The sexual problems I saw were with the straight members, sneaking out of the boot camp barracks screwing ugly chicks in the broom closet. Don't forget girls getting totally preggers on westpack, because apparently they forget condoms.
gaymilitaryman, I respect what you're doing. I was in the military. I feel you're wrong though about gay men not checking other men out in the shower. They do check them out, and some will act immature; if you have a body that they do not like, some will look at you in a humiliating way. So this is a problem with having open gays in the military. I'm not against it; I actually think we need more openness in society with regard to gays, but, we also have to address the problems.
@letsUandMEbereal Oh please. Kids have to shower together in junior and senior high school, but you're trying to claim that showering with a gay guy is a problem? Are you joking? STRAIGHT guys check each other out. They do it at urinals, they do it in the showers. Gay people serve their country like everyone else and the fact that soldiers are ADULTS kind of makes me wonder why there would be a "problem".
@germanamericanable, Children do things like that, and that's why I said "immature." However, I "never" said that "showering with a gay guy is a problem." The problem that I mentioned had to do with "checking out" other men in the shower. I know this is done by gay men, because I lived with gay men for several years. Although it felt uncomfortable, it can be resolved with no hurt feelings. This is why I feel we need more openess in our country and the military.
@letsUandMEbereal Straight guys check each other out for whatever reasons. Size comparisons, physique comparisons. I've had some straight guys make me feel uncomfortable in the shower, but again...we got through it in high school and I just think that a soldier would be putting himself at risk to be overtly checking people out. If you shower with a group of people, some are going to look at you for whatever reasons. Kid stuff.
@germanamericanable, The way straight guys check out other guys is a little different than how gay guys do it; you're comparing apples with oranges. When gays become more open in the military, which I hope they do, there will be issues that will need to be clarified, and I hope people can be a open when these issues come up. No one should be too naive or self-centered; some gays will be attracted to straights, which has to be understood and dealt with.
chuck , just looked at your youtube page pedophile in training ? looking up a lot of gay shit!! u r an anal douche !! closet door is screaming to open
Why a gay person, or anyone, would want to be in the military is beyond my comprehension. I've always believed that organised sports and the military are comprised of frustrated and closeted gay men. However, we are all bisexual, believe it or not. The biological wiring is there.
I think that there's capability and sexuality is fluid. Don't like homophobia as there are so many beautiful women and men out there. It's not really that unusual to fall for someone of the same sex (what if they did something amazing for you?) Maybe not everyone will realize sexual attraction to both genders in their life but I think the potential is there like it or not... Also I don't know why women want to be in the military (or anyone) but it seems some just do...
@LexFeather Just because you are attracted to more than one gender that doesn't mean everybody else is. We all have our preferences, some guys like blondes, some like olive skin girls, others like small breast, these preferences can change overtime but never does someone go from liking blondes to liking dudes without some previous history.
@gdcat777 you must be european. of all the people in the world I've ever met, europeans seem to value military service the least, which has always seemed odd to me. had France and England had decent militaries, the US wouldn't have needed to bail their asses out of WWII. it's sad that europeans seem to have no pride in their own countries. americans are PROUD of their country, and military service in the US is valued. we believe our soldiers and sailors are heroes, because they ARE.
@debunker300 I'm not European, unfortunately. England has a very strong military. I suggest you watch "Guarding the Queen" on hulu if you don't believe me. The only reason America helped England and France was because of Europe's logistics and that they were allies, and it would have been to America's disadvantage had they not. The last time I checked, pride was a deadly sin, that is if one follows that stuff. You would be surprised at how many soldiers opposed the Iraq war, and still do.
@gdcat777 i think it's a shame that you think it's a sin to take pride in oneself, in one's accomplishments, etc....I wish Americans were MORE prideful, actually....we used to be too proud to ever accept government assistance, which was an incentive to find a job and not have children out of wedlock. I also find it a shame that our government has seen fit to lower our military standards - we're now clearly no better than the mediocre militaries in EU countries. Sad.
@debunker300 I agree with a few of your statements actually. Yes the military is very strict and can be a bit too much to handle at times. It certainly is not for everyone. Also I agree that standards dropped drastically during our efforts in the middle east. It got to the point that they would take anyone and there was a waiver for anything. That's going to change though with operations slowing down. A lot of people will start getting kicked out if they can't maintain standards.
@brianepeck1 Yeah but those gays were mostly in the NAVY. Just joking. Well, not really. ANYWAYS...you wouldnt have known if the guy that was in the same shower room as you was gay. NOW they ARE going to know it. Being that its 2012, Im sure that alot of guys would be able to deal with it in a mature manner. BUT, we ALL know that with others it IS going to be a PROBLEM. Thats a distraction. I think we arent ready for this YET.
@VoodooPolitico Jesus, kids shower together in junior high school and senior high school. You're saying that with all of the worries of war, showering with other guys is a big problem? It's ridiculous.
@germanamericanable If you havent served, there is NO WAY you would ever be able to understand. Im sure the more "mature" servicemen, KNOWING that their fellow servicemember is gay and IN a the shower with them would be able to deal with it in a mature manner. BUT YOU and I both know, that there are guys who WILL NOT BE ABLE TO HANDLE IT IN ANY WAY AT ALL. Be it religious reasons, their own gay feelings, general hatred, etc...Give it a few more years...we are still evolving.
@germanamericanable In boot camp you dont have time to think about it. You just haul ass in and out of the shower. In the fleet, you are on your own. I knew guys that would refuse to shower with other men in the "community" showers in the squadbays. They had their reasons. The military is filled with ALL TYPES. While we are at war, with all the silly shit they already have to deal with- we pile THIS on them?
@VoodooPolitico Nonsense. In Israel, everybody serves. They don't care if you're gay or not. Your argument is ridiculous because with the very serious issues involved in war, taking showers is a NON-ISSUE. It's silly and sounds wimpy. "Oh gee--I am afraid someone will check out my ass." Alexander the Great was gay. How is that OTHER military forces don't have this issue. You think Israel's military isn't tough? What a joke. I have known many honorable gay men that served their country. SILLINESS
@germanamericanable THIS is not Israel. This is the US. Thats an apples to bananas comparison. Im not ARGUING anything here. Im giving my OWN EXPERIENCE serving in the military. If there had been an openly gay person in the last unit I was in, there would have been a near breakdown in unit cohesion. MANY of the guys wouldnt have been able to handle it maturely. That was many years ago of course. Now its 2012 and our culture is progressing/evolving.
@VoodooPolitico maybe if enough people like you and I continue to educate folks like germanamerican about the fact that the US is NOT the UK, Israel or any other such country, the more they'll realize trying to compare the US military to theirs is pointless and absurd. I'm a vet myself, and while I'm not sure an openly gay person serving in my unit would have broken down unit cohesion completely, TWO openly gay people in a relationship in my unit most certainly would have.
@debunker300 OF COURSE, good NCO's and SNCO's would keep the unit together. But an openly gay person WOULD have definetly caused some issues within the unit. Thats just my experience. What gets me, is that people that never had the balls to serve are DEMANDING that OPENLY gay people are FORCED into the military at any consequence. 2 grunts in a relationship in the same unit? I cant even imagine what would happen there. Openly gay people will serve-just give it time to gradually happ
@VoodooPolitico and get ready - you know that following the repeal of DADT, the military is going to be BESIEGED now by radical gay activists who not only want gays to serve openly, but transsexuals and hermaphrodites as well. mark my words - it's going to happen. I'm SO glad I got out the military while it was still the best in the world....it's a shame that our once mighty armed forces have been reduced to european-style mediocrity thanks to political correctness run a muck.
@debunker300 Its seems that you have an irrational FEAR of gay people. Being gay doesnt affect how you feel about your flag. Being gay doesnt mean that you can not serve with pride, honor and disctiction as a productive member of our military. Trannies? Why not? Hermafrodites? Why not? HOW can it hurt us? It doesnt mean that they are bad people. Im sure a tranny can pull a trigger and throw a grenade. MY CONCERN is how they are going about this with the current military we have.
@VoodooPolitico good gawd, I hope you're joking...you can't POSSIBLY be serious. dude, if you really can't figure out the problems with allowing trannies and herms to serve in the military, then you've proven to me you lack the capacity to think about this logically and rationally.
@debunker300 Im not serious about that YET you sound as if these people arent Americans. Your tone is that they are bad people or something. You act as if they cant possibly love the flag and our nation and want to serve to protect it. They also PAY TAXES and VOTE. There was a HUGE uproar when black Americans were gradually integrated into the military and not segregated. People need to get passed fear of sexuality and let people express their freedom to be who they want.
@VoodooPolitico gays are NOT bad people - but gay relationships are bad for combat units. you act like just because someone wants something, they should get it. life doesn't work that way. let's say you have a little girl right now who DREAMS of playing defensive end in the NFL. guess what? it doesn't matter that she grows up smart, strong, votes and pays taxes...she is never, EVER going to play in the NFL. is that discrimination? sure it is - but life ain't fair sometimes.
@debunker300 So, your idea that gay men should not serve in the military is because "life aint fair sometimes"? THAT is a rational reason? We're not talking about the NFL. We're talking about the US military. Tax payer funded. Thats pretty much what every "anti-gay" argument comes down to..."Just because." We're talking about people that are perfectly able to be very professional and proficent members of our military, protecting our flag. Sexuality shouldnt be an issue.
@VoodooPolitico my thoughts about gays serving in combat (I don't really care if they serve in non-combat roles) falls under the "life ain't fair" umbrella, yes, just as it does for women who want to serve in combat....sorry, but life ain't fair. you said it yourself....as a man, you instinctively want to protect the person you love, and if you're like me, you want to protect them above all else....I don't see why gays wouldn't feel the same need to protect the ones THEY love.
@debunker300 True enough, but where's the difference between that and doing whatever you must to protect your best friend? It's simply no different. You'll make the decision you have to make at the time.
As to non-combat roles, if the most qualified, badest mofo in the unit happens to be gay, then he's the one you want alongside you, regardless of his orientation.
@SpectreWriter there's a HUGE difference between a platonic friend and someone you're in a relationship with. while i love my friends, i'm not IN love with any of them. different emotions, different feelings altogether when it comes to relationships. you tend to worry about someone you're in love with. you want to protect them. if that person you're in love with is in harm's way, it can't help but be distracting...and in combat, distractions get people killed.
@debunker300 Nah. Not really. I'd be just as worried about my buddy as someone I'm in love with. But that's still a lot of theoretical bull. Who said you'd be serving in the same unit with your spouse/lover anyway? Pretty thin excuse for treating people as less than equal.
@SpectreWriter oh horsehit - you're just lying now because you can't think of a logical response. you know good and well you don't have the same feelings and emotions for your platonic friends as you do for a spouse or lover. to say otherwise is just absurd. and as for relationships in the same unit, what's to stop single gay soldiers from seeking each other out and forming relationships the same way single straights do when they serve together in the same unit? answer = NOTHING.
@debunker300 1) Do not EVER call me a liar again. Got that? 2) Not at all. My best friend is someone I would lay down my life for. Maybe it's YOU who doesn't understand. I don't think of my lover as any less a man, nor is he any less capable than I am. 3) Think about the power in an army of lovers. How much more fiercely would they fight, too? Alexnder did it. Learn. Evolve. 4) What stops? Nothing. But it doesn't just work or happen that way. You're a bigot, that you'd even think it might.
@SpectreWriter not only are you a LIAR, you are FUCKING BALD-FACED LIAR. You might lay down your life for a platonic friend, but you absolutely do NOT have the same feelings for your platonic friend as you do a spouse/lover, unless you're a fucking alien from another planet....stop lying about it, stop trying to pretend you're not human, and try to come up with an intelligent response besides your asinine little lies.
@debunker300 You haven't come up with even one response to any of my obviously valid points. Yet you work very hard to try to piss me off on a personal basis. That makes you a troll. We don't feed your kind, we block them. The rest is in another post, which will be my last to you, since you can't manage an intelligent discussion of the facts.
@SpectreWriter you haven't come up with any valid points, so how can I or anyone else manage to produce a valid response? And i find it amusing, and not altogether unusual for people like you, that once again, when you can't respond intelligently, you resort to stomping your foot like a petulant child and calling the person who bested you a "troll". That's fine by me - you can be as intellectually dishonest as you want....no skin off my nose.
@debunker300 Don't flatter yourself. You haven't bested anyone on this page. You're a troll that for some reason likes to spend his days on this page, making up silly scenarios to hide behind rather than admit what everyone else clearly sees. You're a troll. What does it matter if Israel's army is volunteer or not. The point is that gays aren't a problem. Same with Britain, gays aren't a problem. You are incapable of making a case for your silly hypothetical scenarios. You're absurd.
@germanamericanable if you think ANYTHING I've said even remotely resembles the actual definition of a troll, I have to ask - did you just get on the internet for the first time last week? A person with a differing opinion than yours does NOT a troll make, and only a complete noob doesn't know this. you post at least as often as I do here, but yet you want to call me out for spending time on this vid? why? what business of it is yours? you're a raging noob-hypocrite.
@SpectreWriter debunker300 is a nutcase and there's nobody on the page buying the shit he's selling. Women fought in battle in Russia against the Nazis, they fought in the Israeli army. He keeps saying that you can't compare Israel or the UK with the US. OF COURSE YOU CAN. They have gays in the military and these "problems" that debunker300 dreams up don't exist. He's absurd. Absolutely absurd. He is a bigot, but he's trying to act like he has a good reason when it's silliness.
@debunker300 BUT, like Ive said before, Im not real sure the way the govt is going about implementing this is the best way. Either way. Its done. You or me dont have a choice in the matter no matter what we think. Just like our men and women in the military dont have a choice in the matter. Besides, we have probable already served next to gay men and women and just never knew it. In the end, it just doesnt matter. They can and will serve and things will be fine.
@VoodooPolitico I have no doubt that in my military career (well, not a career actually - I was a one-hitch wonder), I served with gays. No big deal. Showers - no big deal. Daily interactions - no big deal. but if we're in a combat unit where distractions and lack of focus might get me or someone else in my unit KILLED, i DO care that two guys in my unit are in love. i care because i know how I feel about those *I* love...I would want to protect them at ALL costs.
@debunker300 A soldier could be distracted by a "Dear John Letter", news that a family member is ill. You're just beating the same tired drum because none of your other silly statements carry any weight. In your mind, you think you're making a clever point, but in reality you are making an almost arbitrary, pithy excuse for being prejudice against gays. The fact remains that gays have served and given their lives for this country and you disrespect them and their service. It's sickening.
@germanamericanable you're absolutely right - a dear john letter can cause a soldier to get very distracted....i've seen some guys literally lose it over those types of letters. and if that guy couldn't keep his emotions in check, he absolutely IS a danger to himself and others in a combat unit. but a dear john letter has NOTHING to do with this topic and you know it...you can't compare a CONTINUOUS relationship between two gay lovers in the same combat unit to a dear john.
@germanamericanable i don't see where you can say i've disrespected gays at all...in fact, quite the opposite. i have acknowledge their service, routinely. i acknowledged they have given their lives for our country, routinely. but i disagree with openly gay service for the exact same reason i disagree with women in combat. i've repeatedly given rational, logical, objective reasons why openly gay service is a BAD idea, but all you do is sputter about the UK and Israel.
@debunker300 Jesus, you sound like you need antipsychotics. You're BLATHERING. You're saying the most stupid ridiculous shit and nobody's buying it! NOBODY! You're the RADICAL. What nonsense are you blabbering about a girl wanting to play football? Are you daft? Gay men and women have ALWAYS served in the military whether you realize it or not and they've done so successfully. You try to rationalize with STUPID analogies. It's laughable.
@debunker300 You didn't go there. "Trannies and herms"? I'll ignore the disrespectful terms and move on to that there are MANY millions of gay people in this country. Hermaphrodites are a VERY seldom event, and both Transexuals and they can be heterosexual as well. Bigger point is that they represent some small portion of 1% of the gay population. That's your excuse for prejudice? That "tranny", BTW, may be able to kick your ass while in a dress. Lots of inaccurate presumptions there.
@SpectreWriter excuse the fuck out of me, i didn't realize you were a member of the PC police..but my larger point you obviously missed is their effect on a military unit. do you HONESTLY think a close-knit, tight unit of soldiers aren't going to be distracted by a tranny or a herm? of course they would. it's asinine to think otherwise. and it's NOT prejudice....I'm not prejudiced against fat people, but sorry, if you're over the max weight limit you're not gonna serve either.
@debunker300 And I didn't realize I was discussing with an insensitive prick. If you were born with both (or a sibling) would you want terms like that being used?
You ignored the point ENTIRELY. Reread it, trying to understand it this time. This is America. We do not deny equality to a group because there MIGHT be an exception in that group. We deal with the exception and treat everyone else equally. Shall we prohibit hetro men because a small portion of them are rapists, unbecoming conduct?
@SpectreWriter and I guess I didn't realize I was discussing this with a lying douche bag. here's a free clue for starters, junior - you do NOT, repeat, NOT have ANY "right" to military service in the US. That's the way it has always been, and it's been upheld by court....the military is such a unique institution that it can and does discriminate, often....you can't serve if you're too tall, too short, too fat and so on. Life is not fair sometimes. Try not to cry.
@debunker300 Okay, this will be the LAST response, since you lack any sense of honor. This "Junior" is 52 years old, and served in the U.S. military, under the same repressive bullshit that has gone on for years. NOTHING has changed, except that assholes like you no longer get to use prejudicial excuses to not get over your fabrications to justify your homophobia. You're a keyboard tough guy. Try that in person, and you'll be the one crying that a faggot beat your punk ass. Now piss off.
@SpectreWriter so we're approximately the same age and we both served...and because i have a different opinion than you - an opinion you can't intellectually respond to, you decide to take your ball and go home? man, i'm glad we didn't serve together because i know you would NOT have my six. and by the way, you call me a bigot but you're the one using words like "faggot"? talk about pots and kettles.
@SpectreWriter When debunker300 can't deal with a logical point, he gives out copout responses, engages in silly analogies. Your post reminds me of my debate with him because he ignores facts, dismisses realities, and just clutches this silly idea that gays would cause deaths because they would be concerned about someone they liked. Nonsense. Gays serve in other armies with no problem, but he can't deal with that fact so he cops out because he can't deal with facts. Uggh he bugs me!
@germanamericanable when you say "cop-out" - let me translate for others who don't know you - "debunker300 routinely makes rational, logical arguments to support his point and i can't refute them intelligently, so instead i accuse him of being a troll and a cop-out." THAT is you're really saying.
@debunker300 "trannies and herms"? Gender disorder is still classified as a psychological condition by the APA. No one is trying to get trannies and herms into the military. Just another example of how you need to use absurdities. You're not using logic or rational thought, you're being ridiculous. Purposely so. You really have your mind in some weird sex zone. Snap out of it and land your stupid airplane. Jesus, no one is talking about trannies and herms. You really must be a bit touched!
@debunker300 I ask you to explain to me, HOW having openly gay people in our military is a BAD thing. Is there just irrational fear behind your posts? Is it some silly religious thing? Please be logical and rational in your response. By the way, the military we have fielded NOW is the most highly trained, best armed, most technically proficient and highly motivated military the US has ever had. How do gay people hurt that?
@VoodooPolitico I've been painfully, pointedly, rationally logical in ALL my posts - did you forget the conversation we JUST had about gays and unit cohesion? About how gay relationships in combat units can cause a loss of mission focus and get people killed? I don't know how you incorporate openly gay service in our current military, unless you do it the same way it's done with women....they serve in most capacities, just NOT front-line combat units.
@debunker300 The military will adapt and overcome and deal with it. Our culture/society is evolving. Less and less do people have this irrational fear of gay people. I DO have a problem with how they are just DUMPING the issue on our military now. This is something that has to be done gradually. It COULD affect moral and unit cohesion. Thats where leadership comes in. For every redneck retard in the military, there is an intelligent mature man or woman that can deal with it.
@VoodooPolitico i don't think you ever responded to my earlier question - do you think women should be allowed to serve in front line combat units, side-by-side with men? if not, why not?
@debunker300 My father taught me to protect my sister and my mother. I was in fistfights as a kid to protect my sister. Its ingrained into me- PROTECT THE FEMALES. Even more, if I felt emotions towards a certian female, I would be distracted serving side by side with her. Thats why those relationships are discouraged. Two married people were not allowed to serve in the same unit when I was in. A GAY MAN is not a vagina carrying female who would distract me.
@VoodooPolitico OK, voodoo, thanks for the honest answer....so, let's do some logical extensions now, shall we? If you think you would be distracted in combat having to serve next to a female you have strong feelings/emotions for, why wouldn't a gay man feel the same way about having to serve in combat next to someone HE had strong feelings/emotions for? do gays have some sort of magical "switch" straights don't that allows them to completely disregard human emotion?
@VoodooPolitico Give it up. The guy's a bigot but refuses to admit it. He brings up the most ridiculously unlikely of circumstances (hermaphrodites, really?) and tries to use them as support for discriminating on an everyday basis.
I have no proof one way or the other but, considering his dishonorable behavior here, I question if he himself ever served. Rather, I think he's just a troll.
@SpectreWriter ah, I see....so because I point out your intellectual dishonesty and your inability to articulate a cogent response to facts, suddenly *I* am the troll, lol. Bro, why not just admit you can't defend your own position on this topic and move on? Why continue to embarrass yourself with schoolyard ad hominems?
@VoodooPolitico I see that you are making an effort to see both sides. However, what constitutes "gradually"? The gay rights movement started in the 1960s. Again, I would point out how blacks were once treated in the military. When the rules change, and soldiers are obliged to follow those rules, then society changes. The military adjusted to blacks, to women, it can adjust to gays if soldiers do what they are supposed to do...follow orders and act like adults. Those that can't are the problem.
@germanamericanable the treatment and segregation of blacks was racist, pure and simple and had to be stopped. blacks were NOT, however, going to jeopardize missions by getting into homosexual relationships with other soldiers and THAT is the issue - it has nothing to do with racism. comparing gays in the military to blacks is another apples and oranges comparison.
@debunker300 I wasn't talking to you because YOU"RE A MORON! How many times are you going to keep repeating yourself about unit cohesion. It's a bullshit hypothetical smokescreen. There was a time when a white man's prejudice against serving with blacks threatened unit cohesion. Times change. That's what you can't grasp old man--times change and many of your notions are so silly they aren't worth debating. You seem strangely obsessed with the topic. You must think about gays a lot.
@germanamericanable and yet you're here day in, day out defending the right of homosexuals to engage in relationship while in combat units....by your own words, that makes you obsessed. and probably gay. not that i care. you continue to use irrelevant, apples and oranges comparisons that have been long-debunked....my points about gay service have been about relationships, NOT racism or skin color....there's nothing bigoted or prejudicial about anything i've said.
@debunker300 oh blah blah blah. You just keep harping the same stupid shit. Most of the people on this page, many of them servicemen disagree with you. The mere fact that you are calling me a radical when most of the people on this page agree with me just shows me you have something against gays and you're trying to get by with some pithy reasoning. Move on. You're boring.
@VoodooPolitico Citing the UK or Israel is an extremely valid argument. Many Jews have religious issues about gays, but it does not stop them from serving with them in the military. It is in no way an "apples to bananas" comparison, it's a very valuable and comparable comparison. I agree that our culture is progressing, I realize that gays had to keep low profile in the military (in many instance still do). But people's civil rights should not be effected by "other people's immaturity".
@germanamericanable comparing the US military to militaries in other countries is completely invalid and irrelevant. our cultures are different. In Israel, for example, military service is REQUIRED. That's not part of the US military culture - we're an all-volunteer force. further, gays in the military are not a matter of maturity...the issue is whether we disregard unit cohesion, order and discipline in order to satisfy the selfish demands of radical gay activists.
@debunker300 It is absolutely VALID and absolutely RELEVANT. You just can't CONCEDE that because it factually disproves your silly "unit cohesion, gays will get guys killed" nonsense. You can't deal with facts. You dismiss facts and just spout your silly notions as if THEY were facts when they're actually RUBBISH!
@VoodooPolitico Further, your comments make it even more clear that the problem rests with boys/men not being taught to handle themselves maturely, to be discouraged from using gays as a scapegoat/punching bag joke. That's cultural changes. We made laws to change the cultural treatment of blacks. They weren't perfect but they helped a lot. The same would happen for gays. My opinion differs from yours in that I focus on civil rights, whereas you advocate catering to male insecurity and prejudice.
@VoodooPolitico Lastly, I respect that you served in the armed forces. However, there are many people who served in the armed forces that have posted experiences and opinions of their own that differ from yours. As a civilian, I know that sexual harassment of women in the military is unacceptable and I don't need to serve to recognize that. Given there have been top decorated gay military personnel. Democracy goes by majority rule, while PROTECTING the rights of minorities. That's Civics 101.
@VoodooPolitico Apples to bananas? The UK has no problem, Israel has no problem. That sort of makes our troops sound like stupid retards. It's an absolutely valid comparison, you simply don't want to deal with the facts that it works without problems so you are trying to negate a perfectly valid argument. If they can deal with it, we can deal with it. The UK fights with us in Afghanistan. They have gays in their military. How can you say it's not a relevant comparison. It's the definition of it.
@germanamericanable Are you on a crack run? A meth binge? Tipping back a few too many Greyhounds? What the hell is wrong with you? You seem to have sent me DOUBLE post responses and on top of that, I support the right of gay men and women to serve in our military. Never said I didnt. Not once. Not in any way at all. Im just concerned about how the Govt is going about it. So..sober up...or relax...or whatever...
@germanamericanable TO ANSWER YOUR "APPLES TO BANANAS" RESPONSE- You, in no way, can compare AMERICAN culture/society with that of the UK and certainly not like the slugs in Israel. We, Americans, look at alot of things on a different level. Sometimes from a higher perch, other times from the lowest retarded neanderthal point of view.
@germanamericanable YET, even in 2012, there is still hate, there is still irrational fear of gay people. The military is made up of men and women from every geographic, social, ethnic, economic, and religious part of America that we have. Keep in mind that our militar is just coming out of two nasty wars that gutted the military in so many ways. NOW is not the time to FORCE gay people, openly, into the ranks.
@VoodooPolitico Come on the gay issue has been around for YEARS now. If it's not the time after these wars, why wasn't it the time when Clinton was president and we WEREN'T at war? There were years when blacks served with whites and I am sure there was some cohesion problems but times change. Everything will be fine. Gays serve in other militaries and that is most definitely relative because it demonstrates factually that it need not be a problem.
@germanamericanable Alot of the men and women simply wouldnt care and be able to handle it maturely. The thing is, others WONT be able to and thats not a good thing. Like when the military was integrated, it was a gradual thing. Everybody knew it was coming. Gays WILL be able to serve openly in our military and many wont think twice about it. EVENTUALLY. While they do have civil rights-if you like it or not, it IS still an issue with many Americans.
@germanamericanable Its hard to get out my point with these short text boxes, but I think you see my point. You dont have to agree with it, but like I said, my opinion is formed from personal experience in the military. If you havent served in the US Military, the Army and Marine Corps in particular, you really cant understand the level of what Im talking about. Unit cohesion is VERY important right now. You cant FORCE this into the military in this manner.
@VoodooPolitico Racial integration had to be forced. Things changed because they had to change. In other posts you seem to grasp that, but then you go back to the same statements. There have been many more vets post on this page that had no problem and see no problem. So your view or perspective is subjective and there are others in the military that would disagree. So let's agree to disagree because I am sick of the topic, unlike debunker300 who seems like he could spend his life on this page.
@VoodooPolitico In reality, this childish issue is more of an issue with fundamentalists who simply don't like gays. It really doesn't have anything to do with the military since there have been tons of gay men and women serve their country. There are lesbians in the military (Obviously) yet women manage to get through and that's hardly one of their major concerns. Your argument holds no water, it just sounds SIMPLE.
@VoodooPolitico "In boot camp you dont have time to think about it. You just haul ass in and out of the shower". So then what's the problem? Never mind, just pointing out your logical inconsistency.
@germanamericanable kids in junior high and senior high schools aren't serving in combat zones, either...they don't live with each other 24/7 in tents and barracks with bullets whizzing overhead and rockets raining down. Kids in school don't typically see their friends killed next to them on combat missions....so, can we STOP comparing apples to oranges, please? Thanks.
@debunker300 You seem to be doing that. With all of the serious issues that you listed, you actually think worrying about whether someone sees you naked is an issue? Gays are not excluded from military service in Israel or in Great Britain, both of which are excellent. You argument sounds like the rationale of a child. Straight men check each other out, in combat situations I think showering with a group of men is a non-issue. There are also bisexual married men in the service. Grow up.
@germanamericanable i really hate having to rehash what I've said here 1000 times, but NO, I do NOT care nor do I worry about gays in showers. Not one whit. My concern is the same concern most militaries have about relationships between those who are sexually attracted to each other. Relationships are WHY men and women don't serve together in direct combat in most countries. what makes gay men immune from these same relationships? do they possess super-human powers?
@debunker300 Dude, YOU were the one that brought up showers by making some idiotic remark about having men and women shower together co-ed, or did you conveniently forget that? You think this "if two guys care about each other they endanger others" is a strong argument when it's really lame and others have disagreed with you as well. If you didn't care about showers, you would not have made that silly co-ed comment, unless as I said, you were clutching at straws.
The key point here, is someone is only gay if they choose to tell others that they fancy men. Otherwise they are considered straight.
madeinengland1968 2 days ago
Oh PU-LEEZ...stop lie'n.
They best blowjobs I've had in my life was during my military days.
Those "secret" rooms on the ship were HEAVEN !!
The gay boys would eye dicks up and down while shower time was in full force and hours later they were chokin' on them in the "secret" rooms. You could hear the slurpin' in the middle of the night clear down the hallway.
Showinbulge 3 days ago 5
@Showinbulge ummmmm -_-"
thomastmwc 2 days ago
Relationships should not be allowed. Neither should hair dryers.
madeinengland1968 3 days ago
@SpectreWriter, forgive me for butting in, but if you don't already know, debunker300 is either a common troll and/or truly disturbed (or stoned/drunk). Click on 'all comments' and you will see for yourself, page after page.
'It' lives here.
'It' does nothing save provoke and irritate and has no other purposes in 'mind'. My advice, for what it is worth, would be to ignore 'it'.
Cheers.
lduych 5 days ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@lduych jealous, much? lol
debunker300 5 days ago
@lduych You're absolutely right. I gave him more attention than he deserved, particularly given the fact that he keeps saying the same stupid thing over and over. Funny how some trolls can get under your skin.
germanamericanable 4 days ago
@lduych Thanks, Iduych. I came to that conclusion once I saw he wasn't answering any of my valid points, only getting further and further out in his claims. The guy's a pattern troll, it seems. Unoriginal, even. :(
SpectreWriter 4 days ago
A shower is a shower is a shower. Nobody is going to come on to you or drool over you. Gay guys have been naked with straight guys in locker rooms and showers their whole lives. It is only a sexual situation in movies and porn. Get over it.
jackpapa57 5 days ago
not having a bath would bother me
thuggie1 6 days ago 4
This has been flagged as spam show
I don't hate gay people because they're gay, I hate gay people because they're faggots
VEVOTroll 6 days ago
I have spiritual beliefs and I am not down with judging anyone because they don't adhere to my personal thinking. Like if I was dieting would I try to make everyone eat the same foods or would I just do it quietly and realize all I can change is me. I would be sad if there wasn't variety in our world, I just wish everyone could be diplomatic about there differences.
vaimy777 6 days ago 4
@blockzilla1000 We're not stupid animals. Gay people aren't going to stand there staring at your penis, purposely causing you discomfort. But you make ignorant, retarded comments to make us feel we're weird and unwanted. We just have different feelings than you. Stop fearing it.
mark32811 6 days ago 10
@mark32811 Well they might... point, stare and laugh. But that's true of straight guys too, under such circumstances.;)
SpectreWriter 4 days ago
It's the closet gays that are of concern for all of us.From passive to violent rapists! They are your next door neighbor, local police officer, hardware store owner, married father of 6, lawyer, farmers,army officer etc.....
Being in the closet isn't just hurting yourself, it's hurting other people.
But being bisexual isn't bad.
MRMILO57 1 week ago 11
@MRMILO57 Most violence is not from closet gays. Most violence is from insecure, uneducated straight men. Sure, some bullies have turned out to have sexual issues that they could not face, but that's a huge minority. Just another way of blaming gays. Straight men are more violent. They beat women, they beat men. Many "bisexual" men are actually gay but saying they are bisexual or sleeping with women makes themselves feel more manly than a gay. I have met TONS TONS TONS who really prefer men.
germanamericanable 5 days ago
@germanamericanable Buddy, you seem to be misinterpreting my point.
Most closet gay men are not violent, neither are most heterosexuals, or out gay men.
l guess my point is, it's better to be gay & proud than in the closet.
Please read my post again, obviously l must be saying something right, all those thumbs up look good to me.
MRMILO57 4 days ago
This has been flagged as spam show
I have a suggestion... put the gay servicemen and women is a unit especially for them. You want to be abnormal... suffer the consequences. NO NORMAL straight guy wants some queer staring at his d!ck. End of problem.
blockzilla1000 1 week ago
@blockzilla1000 Normal men are not homophobes and could not care less about working and fighting together with other normal men who happen to be gay.
I have yet to see a survey indicating more than 10% of American men as being homophobes. Among women, the figure is less than 4%. It is not a psychological issue among healthy Americans.
It is a religious issue.
To discriminate against an entire segment of society based upon religious dogma is not only unconstitutional, it is immoral.
1sSxAMxAa1 1 week ago
@1sSxAMxAa1 There are plenty of religious denominations that support gay rights to various degrees, many whole-heartedly. I realize that there are denominations that are particularly anti-gay (Roman Catholic, Mormon) but in reality, most men that "hate" gays, or are embarrassed by their gay children do it for psychological reasons, social embarrassment. Religion is often used as an excuse by straight thugs who never read the Bible, pray or go to church. I have met tons of them.
germanamericanable 5 days ago
@1sSxAMxAa1 I've seen parents who had NO religious faith, but reject their children because of social embarrassment, feelings of blame, homophobia. Religion has played a role both for and against gays. Many mainline Protestants have been the most vocal supporters of gay rights and marriage AND gay pastors with partners (Lutheran, Episcopaleon, Reformed, United Churches of Christ (UCC), Society of Friends (Quakers). There are pro-gay movements in almost every denomination in this country.
germanamericanable 5 days ago
@1sSxAMxAa1 Your stats are also wrong. Intuitively, antigay legislation (California) has passed in states with much larger percentages, so your stats can not be right. Public opinion is much more divided than the percentages you list. For many, it is a religious issue, but it's not JUST a religious issue. It's cultural. Heterosexual culture and prejudice. It may seem easy to blame it on religion, but in reality I have been harassed and bothered by non-religious straights that disregard gays.
germanamericanable 5 days ago
@germanamericanable Society will resolve its cultural/religious problems regarding gays in the military just as it did regarding the different yet (at the time) equally contentious problems it faced when President Truman commanded integration.
America can do it. America must.
Prop 8 is irrelevant. After black integration in the military, societal prejudices, segregation and the KKK remained, yet the military did well.
Relax. Religion will soon find something else to hate.
1sSxAMxAa1 5 days ago
@1sSxAMxAa1 I agree with you entirely about Truman and commanded integration. But again you are stereotyping "Religion" as if it is some homogeneous entity and again, like racism, it's often just rooted in simple human prejudice and ignorance. Some may use religion as an excuse, some may spout off about "unit cohesion", and some just hate gays because they hate gays. It has more to do with insecure straight men than religion. So I agree with most of what you said, I am just not as anti-religious
germanamericanable 4 days ago
@germanamericanable
I am ant-religion, but I do know the difference between Islam and a Muslim. The later is a human being, the former a religion.
Similarly, when I say I hate religion -- and I most emphatically do hate religion! -- it does not mean that I necessarily dislike individual adherents to any particular religion.
Religious people are, in my eyes, mostly victims. For example, I feel genuinely half sorry for members of the WBC.
You and I are not all that far apart, are we?
1sSxAMxAa1 4 days ago
@1sSxAMxAa1 We're very different but it's not really worth arguing about.
germanamericanable 4 days ago
@blockzilla1000 Just be a man and deal with it. We all have problems.
rokrfog 6 days ago 5
The only people I hear complaining about gays in the military are the spineless chicken sh*ts who have never been in the military or couldn't get in. In my units (mid-80's) we were all there mixed in and no one really gave a rats ass and it's not really thought about. If it happens, it happens, no one cared one way or another. In the open showers you went in an did your thing and got out. Horsing around in the showers was mostly done by professed str8 guys, not the gay guys. I am gay military.
kingjames8283 1 week ago 17
@TheBeatnik1000 That's great and exactly the point I was making.
bazinga1964 1 week ago
wait, wait, i don't CARE if someone already brought this up... but... you never showered with the other guys in gym class in high school? you had to WAIT for basic training?
runt1717 1 week ago 6
Homophobes are unfit for military service.
The military should screen for homophobes. They are a threat to unit cohesion. Their obsession with anything 'gay' inevitably leads to loss of mission focus. Homophobes are getting people killed.
Homophobes need psychiatric help, not boot camp.
Simple psychological testing to root out those who might try to hide their sickness is readily available. There is no excuse for not purging our military of homophobes -- immediately!
lduych 1 week ago 4
Comment removed
blockzilla1000 1 week ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
@lduych
the ppl that say theyre tolerant of gays eventually show their homophobe self especially in very close interacting situations or when they have to work together with gays
fact of the matter everyone is hiding at least 40% of homophobia
kilkolio 6 days ago
@kilkolio Surveys show that startlingly few women and men are actual homophobes. I think you might be confusing religious-born hate with phobia.
lduych 6 days ago
@lduych
so where r these studies did u get them from some magazine?
kilkolio 6 days ago
@lduych Homophobia is like racism. It's always going to exist, but difficulties can be avoided by strict military codes of conduct to fellow servicemen. If someone threatens the cohesion of a unit because they cannot contain their own personal prejudice, than THEY are the ones with the problem. Just as sexual harassment should not be tolerated, neither should antigay behavior. I still think the issue has been blown out of proportion.
germanamericanable 5 days ago
@germanamericanable Society must resolve its problems,, just as it successfully came to terms with the different yet (at the time) equally contention difficulties it had with President Truman's command to integrate the military.
America can do it. American soldiers already have!
As to the significance of Prop 8, upon black integration in the military, societal prejudice, segregation and the KKK remained. But the military did well.
Relax. Religion will soon find something else to hate.
1sSxAMxAa1 5 days ago
@germanamericanable "...Just as sexual harassment should not be tolerated, neither should antigay behavior..."
A comment left yesterday (flagged as spam) reads: "I don't hate gay people because they're gay, I hate gay people because they're faggots." [VEVOTroll 22 hours ago]
The military code of conduct does not apply to civilians. The person above must never be allowed in. If already there, said individual must be immediately removed (even if it means we lose a general, or two).
lduych 5 days ago
@lduych I don't understand what point you are trying to make? Military conduct should still reflect law and order towards other individuals and behavioral rules on how servicemen and women treat and interact with others. I don't believe people should be thrown out of the military for their personal beliefs, rather for their actions. A person may have racist thoughts but as long as they don't manifest into behavior problems or produce unfair policy. I don't think I am disagreeing with you.
germanamericanable 5 days ago
@germanamericanable "I don't understand what point you are trying to make"
Though my comment of last did not make it sound so, I essentially agree with you.
What I wish to say in response to your response is not terribly long-winded, but would take more than 500 chars. With your permission, I should like to send to you a PM.
A simple, Yes/No, would suffice.
Cheers!
lduych 5 days ago
@debunker300 you are just closed minded the fighting ability of brave soldiers (gay and straight) will never be affected by something as harmless as gays serving.
bazinga1964 1 week ago 23
@bazinga1964 I am bi-sexual and served in the army for 10 years and we could talk openly about homosexuality in my unit and even do no one "came out of the closet" I know that we had very few really narrow-minded who oppose the idea of serving with gay people.
TheBeatnik1000 1 week ago 4
I tried to skip all bla bla bla until minute 6:46 but nothing. you owed us some men in a shower ... I´m going to take a shower...what a pity!
nautico666 1 week ago
cool
wolfhh21 1 week ago
you are good-looking. I'll subscribe to you. You actually talk about things that make sense.
briansparks112 1 week ago 2
As for the guys who had ugly things to say about your video (but truly didn't understand it), Wake up guys. If your in the shower & your looking around at all the other guys, to see if they are checking you out. Then tell me, who's really acting gay? Because whether some of you Str8t guys believe it or not, gay guys don't really like to chase str8t guys, B/C it's like fishing when you don't eat fish (get it?) Why waste the energy? So spend more time making friends cause you'll need em in Battle.
NYTonyRFTL 1 week ago 2
@NYTonyRFTL not only do a lot of gay guys not want to even look at straight guys, but oftentimes find them bullish and unpleasant ...and i dont want to sound rude, but primitive and cave man like. Its mind boggling how big an ego a lot of straight guys have, most gays dont want to have anything to do with straight guys period , they are so boorish..i know of straight guys that try to chase lesbians imagine that ! Of course we are not saying all strt guys are like that, but then majority are !
limhrl 1 week ago
Wow, 1st I want to say, that I listened to this video a few times...and I still have no idea what your reasoning for making it was, and what you reason for putting it back up was..??? It seems to me that you seem to have repressed issues surrounding communal showers, am I right? Well, you can say, whisper, or shout it from here to the heavens, that you don't, but I have to say that I'm about 98% sure that your issue stems from or with communal showers. Move on and see how much Happier you'll be.
NYTonyRFTL 1 week ago
@germanamericanable I am sorry to here that you have had abuse, homophobic people are horrible (I know having received vicious comments from them) I agree that the portrait the media paints of religeous people is fundamentalist and I know that is not a correct picture, let's just agree that homophobia in all circumstances from anyone religeous or not is bad, ok?
bazinga1964 1 week ago
@bazinga1964 You got it buddy! You sound rational and intelligent. I defend religion because it's too big of a topic to stereotype or minimize, but I agree with you that it is a major problem for gays. I just like to put information out there that we're not all like that. You are correct. Homophobia is like racism. It comes from all different kinds of people and is always wrong. Peace!
germanamericanable 5 days ago
@germanamericanable also if an atheist is homophobic then I have a problem with them too I do not deny there are atheist homophobes, however in my experience there are more religious homophobic people than there are secular homophobic people.
bazinga1964 1 week ago
@bazinga1964 Naah. Growing up I took abuse and heard abuse from straight guys that didn't really care anything about religion or church. They were just homophobes. There are plenty of churches (large churches) that support equal rights for gays. My parents had a problem because they blamed themselves for doing something wrong, not because of their religious faith. Fundamentalists are antigay, but even they have other psychological factors going on including culture.
germanamericanable 1 week ago
@germanamericanable let me ask you, is it possible to have an opinion about gays that doesn't agree with your own, and it NOT be "homophobic"? I'm always bemused at the utter and complete LACK of the ability of radical gay activists like yourself to formulate a response to a contrary opinion with engaging in schoolyard name-calling. you'll note I've never ONCE used derogatory terms in this conversation...my opinion is about POLICY, not PEOPLE.
debunker300 1 week ago
@debunker300 You keep calling me "radical" when others on this page (the majority) have expressed the same views as mine. YOU are the one that's in the minority so it seems that you are more likely to be a "radical" or "fanatic". I just look at the facts. You dismiss facts with copout answers about not caring about other countries, when their military procedures prove there is no problem.
germanamericanable 1 week ago
@germanamericanable that is great! Those are people I have no quarrel with when I mention religion I am not addressing those denominations, I am addressing the fundamentalists, who are still a problem there may not be many but they sure do have a pair of lungs on them if you catch my meaning ;o)
bazinga1964 1 week ago
@bazinga1964 Ok. You got me there. I just think that media plays a large role in portraying all religious people as fundamentalist fanatics. They are given far too much news coverage whereas large mainline churches do not share these views but that doesn't make for exciting news does it? They do the same thing with "evolution". They make fundamentalists sound like the majority when they are the minority. But you're right, some churches (RC, Mormon, Baptist) are anti-gay.
germanamericanable 1 week ago
i think the term is "shower shark". the more sophicated gay man just showers and goes on about his business. its the faggot that looks too long and/or makes an unwelcome comment.
sid348 1 week ago
@sid348 Plenty of straight guys have penis issues. They worry about size, they make comments. C'mon...we've all been in showers in high school and it was always some insecure loudmouths that were shooting off their mouths. Plenty of straight men check out other straight men...it's not really sexual. They check out physique, penis size. Some obsess about talking about their dicks constantly. It's not generally gay men that exhibit that behavior.
germanamericanable 1 week ago
As my father who served in WWII,"it takes 2". Gays were in service then and no one said boo. They had their use. If a guy needed to get off he "knew" where and who to servce him. These things happen. We are sexual beings.
Belldavid1000 1 week ago
In boat camp, 85 people had 10 minutes to undress, shower and get dressed again with people shouting the whole time--when was there time for a problem?! Fatigue caused by constant motion from reveille to taps makes it difficult to think about sex. The sexual problems I saw were with the straight members, sneaking out of the boot camp barracks screwing ugly chicks in the broom closet. Don't forget girls getting totally preggers on westpack, because apparently they forget condoms.
STG3 (USN)
actionbuddylee 2 weeks ago
Never had any issues in the showers, because I just did my thing and got out, I was not there looking at anyone. HM1 (FMF) USN
TheStevesd 2 weeks ago
gaymilitaryman, I respect what you're doing. I was in the military. I feel you're wrong though about gay men not checking other men out in the shower. They do check them out, and some will act immature; if you have a body that they do not like, some will look at you in a humiliating way. So this is a problem with having open gays in the military. I'm not against it; I actually think we need more openness in society with regard to gays, but, we also have to address the problems.
letsUandMEbereal 2 weeks ago
@letsUandMEbereal Oh please. Kids have to shower together in junior and senior high school, but you're trying to claim that showering with a gay guy is a problem? Are you joking? STRAIGHT guys check each other out. They do it at urinals, they do it in the showers. Gay people serve their country like everyone else and the fact that soldiers are ADULTS kind of makes me wonder why there would be a "problem".
germanamericanable 1 week ago
@germanamericanable, Children do things like that, and that's why I said "immature." However, I "never" said that "showering with a gay guy is a problem." The problem that I mentioned had to do with "checking out" other men in the shower. I know this is done by gay men, because I lived with gay men for several years. Although it felt uncomfortable, it can be resolved with no hurt feelings. This is why I feel we need more openess in our country and the military.
letsUandMEbereal 5 days ago
@letsUandMEbereal Straight guys check each other out for whatever reasons. Size comparisons, physique comparisons. I've had some straight guys make me feel uncomfortable in the shower, but again...we got through it in high school and I just think that a soldier would be putting himself at risk to be overtly checking people out. If you shower with a group of people, some are going to look at you for whatever reasons. Kid stuff.
germanamericanable 4 days ago
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letsUandMEbereal 4 days ago
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@germanamericanable, The way straight guys check out other guys is a little different than how gay guys do it; you're comparing apples with oranges. When gays become more open in the military, which I hope they do, there will be issues that will need to be clarified, and I hope people can be a open when these issues come up. No one should be too naive or self-centered; some gays will be attracted to straights, which has to be understood and dealt with.
letsUandMEbereal 4 days ago
chuck , just looked at your youtube page pedophile in training ? looking up a lot of gay shit!! u r an anal douche !! closet door is screaming to open
marty62fla 2 weeks ago
you should never be allowed in the military what was your mos let me guess aids warfare..
chuckthedestroyer34 2 weeks ago
@chuckthedestroyer34 Hey Chucky, who was the guy you were french kissing last night?
vdarte 1 week ago
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0zyxcba1 1 week ago
Why a gay person, or anyone, would want to be in the military is beyond my comprehension. I've always believed that organised sports and the military are comprised of frustrated and closeted gay men. However, we are all bisexual, believe it or not. The biological wiring is there.
gdcat777 2 weeks ago
@gdcat777
I think that there's capability and sexuality is fluid. Don't like homophobia as there are so many beautiful women and men out there. It's not really that unusual to fall for someone of the same sex (what if they did something amazing for you?) Maybe not everyone will realize sexual attraction to both genders in their life but I think the potential is there like it or not... Also I don't know why women want to be in the military (or anyone) but it seems some just do...
LexFeather 2 weeks ago
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iMaDeMoN2012 2 weeks ago
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@LexFeather Just because you are attracted to more than one gender that doesn't mean everybody else is. We all have our preferences, some guys like blondes, some like olive skin girls, others like small breast, these preferences can change overtime but never does someone go from liking blondes to liking dudes without some previous history.
iMaDeMoN2012 2 weeks ago
@gdcat777 you must be european. of all the people in the world I've ever met, europeans seem to value military service the least, which has always seemed odd to me. had France and England had decent militaries, the US wouldn't have needed to bail their asses out of WWII. it's sad that europeans seem to have no pride in their own countries. americans are PROUD of their country, and military service in the US is valued. we believe our soldiers and sailors are heroes, because they ARE.
debunker300 2 weeks ago
GO AWAY
zanyzoo6767 2 weeks ago
@debunker300 GO WAY
zanyzoo6767 2 weeks ago
@debunker300 I'm not European, unfortunately. England has a very strong military. I suggest you watch "Guarding the Queen" on hulu if you don't believe me. The only reason America helped England and France was because of Europe's logistics and that they were allies, and it would have been to America's disadvantage had they not. The last time I checked, pride was a deadly sin, that is if one follows that stuff. You would be surprised at how many soldiers opposed the Iraq war, and still do.
gdcat777 1 week ago 2
@gdcat777 i think it's a shame that you think it's a sin to take pride in oneself, in one's accomplishments, etc....I wish Americans were MORE prideful, actually....we used to be too proud to ever accept government assistance, which was an incentive to find a job and not have children out of wedlock. I also find it a shame that our government has seen fit to lower our military standards - we're now clearly no better than the mediocre militaries in EU countries. Sad.
debunker300 1 week ago
@debunker300 I agree with a few of your statements actually. Yes the military is very strict and can be a bit too much to handle at times. It certainly is not for everyone. Also I agree that standards dropped drastically during our efforts in the middle east. It got to the point that they would take anyone and there was a waiver for anything. That's going to change though with operations slowing down. A lot of people will start getting kicked out if they can't maintain standards.
ChaoticBlossom 1 week ago
the gay guys were already in the showers. Nothing has changed.
brianepeck1 2 weeks ago
@brianepeck1 Yeah but those gays were mostly in the NAVY. Just joking. Well, not really. ANYWAYS...you wouldnt have known if the guy that was in the same shower room as you was gay. NOW they ARE going to know it. Being that its 2012, Im sure that alot of guys would be able to deal with it in a mature manner. BUT, we ALL know that with others it IS going to be a PROBLEM. Thats a distraction. I think we arent ready for this YET.
VoodooPolitico 2 weeks ago
@VoodooPolitico Jesus, kids shower together in junior high school and senior high school. You're saying that with all of the worries of war, showering with other guys is a big problem? It's ridiculous.
germanamericanable 1 week ago
@germanamericanable If you havent served, there is NO WAY you would ever be able to understand. Im sure the more "mature" servicemen, KNOWING that their fellow servicemember is gay and IN a the shower with them would be able to deal with it in a mature manner. BUT YOU and I both know, that there are guys who WILL NOT BE ABLE TO HANDLE IT IN ANY WAY AT ALL. Be it religious reasons, their own gay feelings, general hatred, etc...Give it a few more years...we are still evolving.
VoodooPolitico 1 week ago
@germanamericanable In boot camp you dont have time to think about it. You just haul ass in and out of the shower. In the fleet, you are on your own. I knew guys that would refuse to shower with other men in the "community" showers in the squadbays. They had their reasons. The military is filled with ALL TYPES. While we are at war, with all the silly shit they already have to deal with- we pile THIS on them?
VoodooPolitico 1 week ago
@VoodooPolitico Nonsense. In Israel, everybody serves. They don't care if you're gay or not. Your argument is ridiculous because with the very serious issues involved in war, taking showers is a NON-ISSUE. It's silly and sounds wimpy. "Oh gee--I am afraid someone will check out my ass." Alexander the Great was gay. How is that OTHER military forces don't have this issue. You think Israel's military isn't tough? What a joke. I have known many honorable gay men that served their country. SILLINESS
germanamericanable 1 week ago
@germanamericanable THIS is not Israel. This is the US. Thats an apples to bananas comparison. Im not ARGUING anything here. Im giving my OWN EXPERIENCE serving in the military. If there had been an openly gay person in the last unit I was in, there would have been a near breakdown in unit cohesion. MANY of the guys wouldnt have been able to handle it maturely. That was many years ago of course. Now its 2012 and our culture is progressing/evolving.
VoodooPolitico 1 week ago
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@VoodooPolitico maybe if enough people like you and I continue to educate folks like germanamerican about the fact that the US is NOT the UK, Israel or any other such country, the more they'll realize trying to compare the US military to theirs is pointless and absurd. I'm a vet myself, and while I'm not sure an openly gay person serving in my unit would have broken down unit cohesion completely, TWO openly gay people in a relationship in my unit most certainly would have.
debunker300 1 week ago
@debunker300 OF COURSE, good NCO's and SNCO's would keep the unit together. But an openly gay person WOULD have definetly caused some issues within the unit. Thats just my experience. What gets me, is that people that never had the balls to serve are DEMANDING that OPENLY gay people are FORCED into the military at any consequence. 2 grunts in a relationship in the same unit? I cant even imagine what would happen there. Openly gay people will serve-just give it time to gradually happ
VoodooPolitico 1 week ago
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@VoodooPolitico and get ready - you know that following the repeal of DADT, the military is going to be BESIEGED now by radical gay activists who not only want gays to serve openly, but transsexuals and hermaphrodites as well. mark my words - it's going to happen. I'm SO glad I got out the military while it was still the best in the world....it's a shame that our once mighty armed forces have been reduced to european-style mediocrity thanks to political correctness run a muck.
debunker300 1 week ago
@debunker300 Its seems that you have an irrational FEAR of gay people. Being gay doesnt affect how you feel about your flag. Being gay doesnt mean that you can not serve with pride, honor and disctiction as a productive member of our military. Trannies? Why not? Hermafrodites? Why not? HOW can it hurt us? It doesnt mean that they are bad people. Im sure a tranny can pull a trigger and throw a grenade. MY CONCERN is how they are going about this with the current military we have.
VoodooPolitico 1 week ago
@VoodooPolitico good gawd, I hope you're joking...you can't POSSIBLY be serious. dude, if you really can't figure out the problems with allowing trannies and herms to serve in the military, then you've proven to me you lack the capacity to think about this logically and rationally.
debunker300 1 week ago
@debunker300 Im not serious about that YET you sound as if these people arent Americans. Your tone is that they are bad people or something. You act as if they cant possibly love the flag and our nation and want to serve to protect it. They also PAY TAXES and VOTE. There was a HUGE uproar when black Americans were gradually integrated into the military and not segregated. People need to get passed fear of sexuality and let people express their freedom to be who they want.
VoodooPolitico 1 week ago 12
@VoodooPolitico gays are NOT bad people - but gay relationships are bad for combat units. you act like just because someone wants something, they should get it. life doesn't work that way. let's say you have a little girl right now who DREAMS of playing defensive end in the NFL. guess what? it doesn't matter that she grows up smart, strong, votes and pays taxes...she is never, EVER going to play in the NFL. is that discrimination? sure it is - but life ain't fair sometimes.
debunker300 5 days ago
@debunker300 So, your idea that gay men should not serve in the military is because "life aint fair sometimes"? THAT is a rational reason? We're not talking about the NFL. We're talking about the US military. Tax payer funded. Thats pretty much what every "anti-gay" argument comes down to..."Just because." We're talking about people that are perfectly able to be very professional and proficent members of our military, protecting our flag. Sexuality shouldnt be an issue.
VoodooPolitico 5 days ago 3
@VoodooPolitico my thoughts about gays serving in combat (I don't really care if they serve in non-combat roles) falls under the "life ain't fair" umbrella, yes, just as it does for women who want to serve in combat....sorry, but life ain't fair. you said it yourself....as a man, you instinctively want to protect the person you love, and if you're like me, you want to protect them above all else....I don't see why gays wouldn't feel the same need to protect the ones THEY love.
debunker300 5 days ago
@debunker300 True enough, but where's the difference between that and doing whatever you must to protect your best friend? It's simply no different. You'll make the decision you have to make at the time.
As to non-combat roles, if the most qualified, badest mofo in the unit happens to be gay, then he's the one you want alongside you, regardless of his orientation.
SpectreWriter 5 days ago
@SpectreWriter there's a HUGE difference between a platonic friend and someone you're in a relationship with. while i love my friends, i'm not IN love with any of them. different emotions, different feelings altogether when it comes to relationships. you tend to worry about someone you're in love with. you want to protect them. if that person you're in love with is in harm's way, it can't help but be distracting...and in combat, distractions get people killed.
debunker300 5 days ago
@debunker300 Nah. Not really. I'd be just as worried about my buddy as someone I'm in love with. But that's still a lot of theoretical bull. Who said you'd be serving in the same unit with your spouse/lover anyway? Pretty thin excuse for treating people as less than equal.
SpectreWriter 5 days ago
@SpectreWriter oh horsehit - you're just lying now because you can't think of a logical response. you know good and well you don't have the same feelings and emotions for your platonic friends as you do for a spouse or lover. to say otherwise is just absurd. and as for relationships in the same unit, what's to stop single gay soldiers from seeking each other out and forming relationships the same way single straights do when they serve together in the same unit? answer = NOTHING.
debunker300 5 days ago
@debunker300 1) Do not EVER call me a liar again. Got that? 2) Not at all. My best friend is someone I would lay down my life for. Maybe it's YOU who doesn't understand. I don't think of my lover as any less a man, nor is he any less capable than I am. 3) Think about the power in an army of lovers. How much more fiercely would they fight, too? Alexnder did it. Learn. Evolve. 4) What stops? Nothing. But it doesn't just work or happen that way. You're a bigot, that you'd even think it might.
SpectreWriter 5 days ago
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@SpectreWriter not only are you a LIAR, you are FUCKING BALD-FACED LIAR. You might lay down your life for a platonic friend, but you absolutely do NOT have the same feelings for your platonic friend as you do a spouse/lover, unless you're a fucking alien from another planet....stop lying about it, stop trying to pretend you're not human, and try to come up with an intelligent response besides your asinine little lies.
debunker300 5 days ago
@debunker300 You haven't come up with even one response to any of my obviously valid points. Yet you work very hard to try to piss me off on a personal basis. That makes you a troll. We don't feed your kind, we block them. The rest is in another post, which will be my last to you, since you can't manage an intelligent discussion of the facts.
SpectreWriter 5 days ago
@SpectreWriter you haven't come up with any valid points, so how can I or anyone else manage to produce a valid response? And i find it amusing, and not altogether unusual for people like you, that once again, when you can't respond intelligently, you resort to stomping your foot like a petulant child and calling the person who bested you a "troll". That's fine by me - you can be as intellectually dishonest as you want....no skin off my nose.
debunker300 5 days ago
@debunker300 Don't flatter yourself. You haven't bested anyone on this page. You're a troll that for some reason likes to spend his days on this page, making up silly scenarios to hide behind rather than admit what everyone else clearly sees. You're a troll. What does it matter if Israel's army is volunteer or not. The point is that gays aren't a problem. Same with Britain, gays aren't a problem. You are incapable of making a case for your silly hypothetical scenarios. You're absurd.
germanamericanable 4 days ago
@germanamericanable if you think ANYTHING I've said even remotely resembles the actual definition of a troll, I have to ask - did you just get on the internet for the first time last week? A person with a differing opinion than yours does NOT a troll make, and only a complete noob doesn't know this. you post at least as often as I do here, but yet you want to call me out for spending time on this vid? why? what business of it is yours? you're a raging noob-hypocrite.
debunker300 4 days ago
@SpectreWriter debunker300 is a nutcase and there's nobody on the page buying the shit he's selling. Women fought in battle in Russia against the Nazis, they fought in the Israeli army. He keeps saying that you can't compare Israel or the UK with the US. OF COURSE YOU CAN. They have gays in the military and these "problems" that debunker300 dreams up don't exist. He's absurd. Absolutely absurd. He is a bigot, but he's trying to act like he has a good reason when it's silliness.
germanamericanable 4 days ago
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germanamericanable 4 days ago
@debunker300 BUT, like Ive said before, Im not real sure the way the govt is going about implementing this is the best way. Either way. Its done. You or me dont have a choice in the matter no matter what we think. Just like our men and women in the military dont have a choice in the matter. Besides, we have probable already served next to gay men and women and just never knew it. In the end, it just doesnt matter. They can and will serve and things will be fine.
VoodooPolitico 5 days ago 4
@VoodooPolitico I have no doubt that in my military career (well, not a career actually - I was a one-hitch wonder), I served with gays. No big deal. Showers - no big deal. Daily interactions - no big deal. but if we're in a combat unit where distractions and lack of focus might get me or someone else in my unit KILLED, i DO care that two guys in my unit are in love. i care because i know how I feel about those *I* love...I would want to protect them at ALL costs.
debunker300 5 days ago
@debunker300 A soldier could be distracted by a "Dear John Letter", news that a family member is ill. You're just beating the same tired drum because none of your other silly statements carry any weight. In your mind, you think you're making a clever point, but in reality you are making an almost arbitrary, pithy excuse for being prejudice against gays. The fact remains that gays have served and given their lives for this country and you disrespect them and their service. It's sickening.
germanamericanable 4 days ago
@germanamericanable you're absolutely right - a dear john letter can cause a soldier to get very distracted....i've seen some guys literally lose it over those types of letters. and if that guy couldn't keep his emotions in check, he absolutely IS a danger to himself and others in a combat unit. but a dear john letter has NOTHING to do with this topic and you know it...you can't compare a CONTINUOUS relationship between two gay lovers in the same combat unit to a dear john.
debunker300 4 days ago
@germanamericanable i don't see where you can say i've disrespected gays at all...in fact, quite the opposite. i have acknowledge their service, routinely. i acknowledged they have given their lives for our country, routinely. but i disagree with openly gay service for the exact same reason i disagree with women in combat. i've repeatedly given rational, logical, objective reasons why openly gay service is a BAD idea, but all you do is sputter about the UK and Israel.
debunker300 4 days ago
@debunker300 Jesus, you sound like you need antipsychotics. You're BLATHERING. You're saying the most stupid ridiculous shit and nobody's buying it! NOBODY! You're the RADICAL. What nonsense are you blabbering about a girl wanting to play football? Are you daft? Gay men and women have ALWAYS served in the military whether you realize it or not and they've done so successfully. You try to rationalize with STUPID analogies. It's laughable.
germanamericanable 4 days ago
@debunker300 You didn't go there. "Trannies and herms"? I'll ignore the disrespectful terms and move on to that there are MANY millions of gay people in this country. Hermaphrodites are a VERY seldom event, and both Transexuals and they can be heterosexual as well. Bigger point is that they represent some small portion of 1% of the gay population. That's your excuse for prejudice? That "tranny", BTW, may be able to kick your ass while in a dress. Lots of inaccurate presumptions there.
SpectreWriter 5 days ago
@SpectreWriter excuse the fuck out of me, i didn't realize you were a member of the PC police..but my larger point you obviously missed is their effect on a military unit. do you HONESTLY think a close-knit, tight unit of soldiers aren't going to be distracted by a tranny or a herm? of course they would. it's asinine to think otherwise. and it's NOT prejudice....I'm not prejudiced against fat people, but sorry, if you're over the max weight limit you're not gonna serve either.
debunker300 5 days ago
@debunker300 And I didn't realize I was discussing with an insensitive prick. If you were born with both (or a sibling) would you want terms like that being used?
You ignored the point ENTIRELY. Reread it, trying to understand it this time. This is America. We do not deny equality to a group because there MIGHT be an exception in that group. We deal with the exception and treat everyone else equally. Shall we prohibit hetro men because a small portion of them are rapists, unbecoming conduct?
SpectreWriter 5 days ago
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@SpectreWriter and I guess I didn't realize I was discussing this with a lying douche bag. here's a free clue for starters, junior - you do NOT, repeat, NOT have ANY "right" to military service in the US. That's the way it has always been, and it's been upheld by court....the military is such a unique institution that it can and does discriminate, often....you can't serve if you're too tall, too short, too fat and so on. Life is not fair sometimes. Try not to cry.
debunker300 5 days ago
@debunker300 Okay, this will be the LAST response, since you lack any sense of honor. This "Junior" is 52 years old, and served in the U.S. military, under the same repressive bullshit that has gone on for years. NOTHING has changed, except that assholes like you no longer get to use prejudicial excuses to not get over your fabrications to justify your homophobia. You're a keyboard tough guy. Try that in person, and you'll be the one crying that a faggot beat your punk ass. Now piss off.
SpectreWriter 5 days ago
@SpectreWriter so we're approximately the same age and we both served...and because i have a different opinion than you - an opinion you can't intellectually respond to, you decide to take your ball and go home? man, i'm glad we didn't serve together because i know you would NOT have my six. and by the way, you call me a bigot but you're the one using words like "faggot"? talk about pots and kettles.
debunker300 5 days ago
@SpectreWriter When debunker300 can't deal with a logical point, he gives out copout responses, engages in silly analogies. Your post reminds me of my debate with him because he ignores facts, dismisses realities, and just clutches this silly idea that gays would cause deaths because they would be concerned about someone they liked. Nonsense. Gays serve in other armies with no problem, but he can't deal with that fact so he cops out because he can't deal with facts. Uggh he bugs me!
germanamericanable 4 days ago
@germanamericanable when you say "cop-out" - let me translate for others who don't know you - "debunker300 routinely makes rational, logical arguments to support his point and i can't refute them intelligently, so instead i accuse him of being a troll and a cop-out." THAT is you're really saying.
debunker300 4 days ago
@debunker300 "trannies and herms"? Gender disorder is still classified as a psychological condition by the APA. No one is trying to get trannies and herms into the military. Just another example of how you need to use absurdities. You're not using logic or rational thought, you're being ridiculous. Purposely so. You really have your mind in some weird sex zone. Snap out of it and land your stupid airplane. Jesus, no one is talking about trannies and herms. You really must be a bit touched!
germanamericanable 4 days ago
@debunker300 I ask you to explain to me, HOW having openly gay people in our military is a BAD thing. Is there just irrational fear behind your posts? Is it some silly religious thing? Please be logical and rational in your response. By the way, the military we have fielded NOW is the most highly trained, best armed, most technically proficient and highly motivated military the US has ever had. How do gay people hurt that?
VoodooPolitico 1 week ago
@VoodooPolitico I've been painfully, pointedly, rationally logical in ALL my posts - did you forget the conversation we JUST had about gays and unit cohesion? About how gay relationships in combat units can cause a loss of mission focus and get people killed? I don't know how you incorporate openly gay service in our current military, unless you do it the same way it's done with women....they serve in most capacities, just NOT front-line combat units.
debunker300 1 week ago
@debunker300 The military will adapt and overcome and deal with it. Our culture/society is evolving. Less and less do people have this irrational fear of gay people. I DO have a problem with how they are just DUMPING the issue on our military now. This is something that has to be done gradually. It COULD affect moral and unit cohesion. Thats where leadership comes in. For every redneck retard in the military, there is an intelligent mature man or woman that can deal with it.
VoodooPolitico 1 week ago
@VoodooPolitico i don't think you ever responded to my earlier question - do you think women should be allowed to serve in front line combat units, side-by-side with men? if not, why not?
debunker300 5 days ago
@debunker300 My father taught me to protect my sister and my mother. I was in fistfights as a kid to protect my sister. Its ingrained into me- PROTECT THE FEMALES. Even more, if I felt emotions towards a certian female, I would be distracted serving side by side with her. Thats why those relationships are discouraged. Two married people were not allowed to serve in the same unit when I was in. A GAY MAN is not a vagina carrying female who would distract me.
VoodooPolitico 5 days ago 2
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@VoodooPolitico OK, voodoo, thanks for the honest answer....so, let's do some logical extensions now, shall we? If you think you would be distracted in combat having to serve next to a female you have strong feelings/emotions for, why wouldn't a gay man feel the same way about having to serve in combat next to someone HE had strong feelings/emotions for? do gays have some sort of magical "switch" straights don't that allows them to completely disregard human emotion?
debunker300 5 days ago
@VoodooPolitico Give it up. The guy's a bigot but refuses to admit it. He brings up the most ridiculously unlikely of circumstances (hermaphrodites, really?) and tries to use them as support for discriminating on an everyday basis.
I have no proof one way or the other but, considering his dishonorable behavior here, I question if he himself ever served. Rather, I think he's just a troll.
SpectreWriter 5 days ago
@SpectreWriter ah, I see....so because I point out your intellectual dishonesty and your inability to articulate a cogent response to facts, suddenly *I* am the troll, lol. Bro, why not just admit you can't defend your own position on this topic and move on? Why continue to embarrass yourself with schoolyard ad hominems?
debunker300 5 days ago
@VoodooPolitico I see that you are making an effort to see both sides. However, what constitutes "gradually"? The gay rights movement started in the 1960s. Again, I would point out how blacks were once treated in the military. When the rules change, and soldiers are obliged to follow those rules, then society changes. The military adjusted to blacks, to women, it can adjust to gays if soldiers do what they are supposed to do...follow orders and act like adults. Those that can't are the problem.
germanamericanable 5 days ago
@germanamericanable the treatment and segregation of blacks was racist, pure and simple and had to be stopped. blacks were NOT, however, going to jeopardize missions by getting into homosexual relationships with other soldiers and THAT is the issue - it has nothing to do with racism. comparing gays in the military to blacks is another apples and oranges comparison.
debunker300 5 days ago
@debunker300 I wasn't talking to you because YOU"RE A MORON! How many times are you going to keep repeating yourself about unit cohesion. It's a bullshit hypothetical smokescreen. There was a time when a white man's prejudice against serving with blacks threatened unit cohesion. Times change. That's what you can't grasp old man--times change and many of your notions are so silly they aren't worth debating. You seem strangely obsessed with the topic. You must think about gays a lot.
germanamericanable 4 days ago
@germanamericanable and yet you're here day in, day out defending the right of homosexuals to engage in relationship while in combat units....by your own words, that makes you obsessed. and probably gay. not that i care. you continue to use irrelevant, apples and oranges comparisons that have been long-debunked....my points about gay service have been about relationships, NOT racism or skin color....there's nothing bigoted or prejudicial about anything i've said.
debunker300 4 days ago
@debunker300 oh blah blah blah. You just keep harping the same stupid shit. Most of the people on this page, many of them servicemen disagree with you. The mere fact that you are calling me a radical when most of the people on this page agree with me just shows me you have something against gays and you're trying to get by with some pithy reasoning. Move on. You're boring.
germanamericanable 4 days ago
@VoodooPolitico Citing the UK or Israel is an extremely valid argument. Many Jews have religious issues about gays, but it does not stop them from serving with them in the military. It is in no way an "apples to bananas" comparison, it's a very valuable and comparable comparison. I agree that our culture is progressing, I realize that gays had to keep low profile in the military (in many instance still do). But people's civil rights should not be effected by "other people's immaturity".
germanamericanable 5 days ago
@germanamericanable comparing the US military to militaries in other countries is completely invalid and irrelevant. our cultures are different. In Israel, for example, military service is REQUIRED. That's not part of the US military culture - we're an all-volunteer force. further, gays in the military are not a matter of maturity...the issue is whether we disregard unit cohesion, order and discipline in order to satisfy the selfish demands of radical gay activists.
debunker300 5 days ago
@debunker300 It is absolutely VALID and absolutely RELEVANT. You just can't CONCEDE that because it factually disproves your silly "unit cohesion, gays will get guys killed" nonsense. You can't deal with facts. You dismiss facts and just spout your silly notions as if THEY were facts when they're actually RUBBISH!
germanamericanable 4 days ago
@VoodooPolitico Further, your comments make it even more clear that the problem rests with boys/men not being taught to handle themselves maturely, to be discouraged from using gays as a scapegoat/punching bag joke. That's cultural changes. We made laws to change the cultural treatment of blacks. They weren't perfect but they helped a lot. The same would happen for gays. My opinion differs from yours in that I focus on civil rights, whereas you advocate catering to male insecurity and prejudice.
germanamericanable 5 days ago
@VoodooPolitico Lastly, I respect that you served in the armed forces. However, there are many people who served in the armed forces that have posted experiences and opinions of their own that differ from yours. As a civilian, I know that sexual harassment of women in the military is unacceptable and I don't need to serve to recognize that. Given there have been top decorated gay military personnel. Democracy goes by majority rule, while PROTECTING the rights of minorities. That's Civics 101.
germanamericanable 5 days ago
@VoodooPolitico Apples to bananas? The UK has no problem, Israel has no problem. That sort of makes our troops sound like stupid retards. It's an absolutely valid comparison, you simply don't want to deal with the facts that it works without problems so you are trying to negate a perfectly valid argument. If they can deal with it, we can deal with it. The UK fights with us in Afghanistan. They have gays in their military. How can you say it's not a relevant comparison. It's the definition of it.
germanamericanable 4 days ago
@germanamericanable Are you on a crack run? A meth binge? Tipping back a few too many Greyhounds? What the hell is wrong with you? You seem to have sent me DOUBLE post responses and on top of that, I support the right of gay men and women to serve in our military. Never said I didnt. Not once. Not in any way at all. Im just concerned about how the Govt is going about it. So..sober up...or relax...or whatever...
VoodooPolitico 4 days ago
@germanamericanable TO ANSWER YOUR "APPLES TO BANANAS" RESPONSE- You, in no way, can compare AMERICAN culture/society with that of the UK and certainly not like the slugs in Israel. We, Americans, look at alot of things on a different level. Sometimes from a higher perch, other times from the lowest retarded neanderthal point of view.
VoodooPolitico 4 days ago
@germanamericanable YET, even in 2012, there is still hate, there is still irrational fear of gay people. The military is made up of men and women from every geographic, social, ethnic, economic, and religious part of America that we have. Keep in mind that our militar is just coming out of two nasty wars that gutted the military in so many ways. NOW is not the time to FORCE gay people, openly, into the ranks.
VoodooPolitico 1 week ago
@VoodooPolitico Come on the gay issue has been around for YEARS now. If it's not the time after these wars, why wasn't it the time when Clinton was president and we WEREN'T at war? There were years when blacks served with whites and I am sure there was some cohesion problems but times change. Everything will be fine. Gays serve in other militaries and that is most definitely relative because it demonstrates factually that it need not be a problem.
germanamericanable 4 days ago
@germanamericanable Alot of the men and women simply wouldnt care and be able to handle it maturely. The thing is, others WONT be able to and thats not a good thing. Like when the military was integrated, it was a gradual thing. Everybody knew it was coming. Gays WILL be able to serve openly in our military and many wont think twice about it. EVENTUALLY. While they do have civil rights-if you like it or not, it IS still an issue with many Americans.
VoodooPolitico 1 week ago
@germanamericanable Its hard to get out my point with these short text boxes, but I think you see my point. You dont have to agree with it, but like I said, my opinion is formed from personal experience in the military. If you havent served in the US Military, the Army and Marine Corps in particular, you really cant understand the level of what Im talking about. Unit cohesion is VERY important right now. You cant FORCE this into the military in this manner.
VoodooPolitico 1 week ago
@VoodooPolitico Racial integration had to be forced. Things changed because they had to change. In other posts you seem to grasp that, but then you go back to the same statements. There have been many more vets post on this page that had no problem and see no problem. So your view or perspective is subjective and there are others in the military that would disagree. So let's agree to disagree because I am sick of the topic, unlike debunker300 who seems like he could spend his life on this page.
germanamericanable 4 days ago
@VoodooPolitico In reality, this childish issue is more of an issue with fundamentalists who simply don't like gays. It really doesn't have anything to do with the military since there have been tons of gay men and women serve their country. There are lesbians in the military (Obviously) yet women manage to get through and that's hardly one of their major concerns. Your argument holds no water, it just sounds SIMPLE.
germanamericanable 1 week ago
@VoodooPolitico "In boot camp you dont have time to think about it. You just haul ass in and out of the shower". So then what's the problem? Never mind, just pointing out your logical inconsistency.
germanamericanable 4 days ago
@germanamericanable kids in junior high and senior high schools aren't serving in combat zones, either...they don't live with each other 24/7 in tents and barracks with bullets whizzing overhead and rockets raining down. Kids in school don't typically see their friends killed next to them on combat missions....so, can we STOP comparing apples to oranges, please? Thanks.
debunker300 1 week ago
@debunker300 You seem to be doing that. With all of the serious issues that you listed, you actually think worrying about whether someone sees you naked is an issue? Gays are not excluded from military service in Israel or in Great Britain, both of which are excellent. You argument sounds like the rationale of a child. Straight men check each other out, in combat situations I think showering with a group of men is a non-issue. There are also bisexual married men in the service. Grow up.
germanamericanable 1 week ago
@germanamericanable i really hate having to rehash what I've said here 1000 times, but NO, I do NOT care nor do I worry about gays in showers. Not one whit. My concern is the same concern most militaries have about relationships between those who are sexually attracted to each other. Relationships are WHY men and women don't serve together in direct combat in most countries. what makes gay men immune from these same relationships? do they possess super-human powers?
debunker300 1 week ago
@debunker300 Dude, YOU were the one that brought up showers by making some idiotic remark about having men and women shower together co-ed, or did you conveniently forget that? You think this "if two guys care about each other they endanger others" is a strong argument when it's really lame and others have disagreed with you as well. If you didn't care about showers, you would not have made that silly co-ed comment, unless as I said, you were clutching at straws.
germanamericanable 1 week ago