Sinking Subs - 45 min documentary

[1dschamp]

I understand that the US Navy was involved in a complete overhaul of the propellar design on the Collins class leading to a significant improvement on the noise issue. That asid, i don;t think that Australia should forge ahead with a home built replacement for the Collins and instead go with the enhanced version of the Type 216 submarine being offered by ThyseenKrupp Marine. A proven design with capabilities beyond the Collins and the reliability of german manufacturing to boot.

[investornator]

You try and operate a piece of steel in a salty environment that has crushing forces exerted on you with mechanical parts and not have any problems?Morons ,The Collins Class sub is a weapon platform that dose preform.The information that has been learnt is invaluable to Australia.

[Agent0range67]

I bet you got the wrong drawings

[59acu]

In a war game with a US carrier battle group a Collins class sub managed to slip through the screen of patrolling frigates and destroyers. the sub 'sank' the carrier battle groups two submarines sank the carrier. the Collins class had major issues early in its career but is now one of the worlds best subs and the new ones will be even better

[slickstrings]

@59acu your quite right. The reasons we chose to keep away from nuclear subs were 1. nuclear is unpopular over here and as shown in NZ, they refuse americas nuclear fleet from parking in their waters. 2. nuclear subs cannot go dead silent. They can be very quiet, but they cant shut down completely. I believe in the first gulf war, australian subs snuck right into the gulf due to this ability

[thepollywog1]

I do not understand periscopes value anymore if you have to look use a inflatable that coule be just big enough to fly a camera. Camera to wire held up by light gas. Wire or sonar encrypted transmission to the sub. Easily jetsioned and let sink or self destruct. sub potentially very deep or latterally displaced. Could even have a remote controlled array covering a wide area of sea.

[MigariMusic]

Thats actually a very good idea but if you could imagine a camera floating on the surface in turbulent waters it would be very hard to see anything let alone track, aim and fire as well as work out which way the camera is facing.

[norriealex]

Shocking pathetic piece of rusting iron.

The Americans could hear it rattling along 300 nautical miles away.

This was the 6 billion gift the Labor party and Kim Beasley foisted on the Australian Tax Payer. What a joke, there's only 2 in operation the others are in dry dock permanently.

[dkflemo1986]

lets think about how the media works. If something in defence happens usually all of Australia will know with in days and along with it the world. Now think about it this way. What if these bad comments are what the government want you to hear? what if its a cover up to make the world think the Australians are hopeless? Well i can tell you this is true, dont always believe what you hear. I am a submariner on these subs and you guys have no idea at all on what your talking about.

[MigariMusic]

Funny you say that when the USN has commended them as being a deadly force, as HMAS Sheean sank two of the USN's Destroyers and one of there 'high tech' submarines USS Olympia, in the RIMPAC war games. Yes they had some issues in the early stages but they are more than capable of perforing (outperforming) their high end counter parts.

[MigariMusic]

Don't forget this documentary was made in 1999, the collins class has since gone through a lot of changes to remedy the problems it had.

[Jolinator]

@MigariMusic and it still has a HUGE amount of problems. it will always be a failed design. you speak like you are involved with the RAN? we have one or 2 operational collins class at the current moment, as of a few months ago that was 1. the rest of the fleet is dead till 2012, great boats they are...

[DeafFret]

@Jolinator I heard the reason there are only two currently operation is lack of personnel, not a design or construction fault.

[Jolinator]

@DeafFret its a combination of both, they cannot keep new recruites, combined with collins class being a choad.

[blakeblake321]

Collins Class Submarines are one of the best, they are being upgraded to the standards of nuclear subs (not going nuclear)

[garyfromtheUK]

nope the british vanguard armed with the trident missile is the best sub

[Kambanicity]

@garyfromtheUK The best???? in what?

How is it possible to take a great sub and make it so noicy like this class is? I mean u took the design from sweeden right? And their subs are one of the greatest at the moment

[ollonsvin]

Aussie boys could not read the drawing!!

[darkerphantom]

a collins class can avoid dectection from two american warships and have sunk American carriers multiple times at rimpac

[swertinge07]

This is from 1999 and the problems are from 1997, as of 2002 all problems have been solved and Collins class hold it own in mock fights with Los Angeles SSN outside Hawaii.

[oPseudonym]

Fascinating discussion. Good to know the USN was able to learn something from the Swedes, indirectly ;). Swedish business practice doesn't not always translate abroad perfectly; that's why IKEA uses lots of pictures in its assembly manuals.

[8497289]

the Kockums type 471 is the largest, most lethal and most advanced diesel electric submarine in the world

[SgtDrDeath]

They should have built these subs in Sweden, not by license in Australia that why they had all the problems...

[61Elmore]

you have to remeber this was taken when they where first releast back 11 years ago. NOw thay have improved their mistakes and is one of the best submairnes in the world and quitest. We bet the americans in the war games recently. So i take my hats off to the australians for buliding a swedish design and making it better in australia.

[Jolinator]

@61Elmore i know your comment is 2 years old but the collins class is still a unreliable peice of shit, we beat the americans in a wargame where we got one sucsessfull torpedo launch against a carrier, due to their mistake. which still isnt enought to sink it. i have friends who work on these things, the Americans are the one who have really helped fixed the collins class, 95% of that is thanks to Raytheon

[Fender869]

@61Elmore The Americans use augmentors on their LA class during war games. They are also very QUIET especially for a nuke. It's much more deadly and I would never say a Collins vs LA would be a faire fight. Not too mention the LA is close to 30 years old. Now the Collins could never stand up to a Seawolf or a new Virginia class SSN.

[TroyaE117]

But the diesel-electric sub is notoriously noisy with thsoe diesels running.

I hope it's not noisy under battery power. Then it has problems.

[STAM6600]

whoa i never knew swedish ppl were so opinionated haha i thought though the problems with the subs was sorted out

[Baboutoo]

This is just something to laugh about, You Australians can't just make it on your own ! We Swedish are building one of the best high-tech submarines in the world! We have been kicked USA's ass with this sub.. I think that you are just bad losers.

[professorbuglefarts1]

Thanks mate. It's great to hear opinions from people who take Eurovision seriously.

[professorbuglefarts1]

(My comment was for Baboutoo, BTW)

[ricturtle]

ROFL

[smorgasbord3]

Sweden may be a little cold neutral country in the north, but we know how to make amazing submarines, jet fighters, canons, radar systems, tanks, recoilless guns, war ships, rifles, fire-and-forget surface-to-surface and air-to-surface, anti-ship missile etc...

[dreamvisionnetwork]

@smorgasbord3:

WOW. WAR mashinery. How very very Amazing as you write it.

You dont think there is anything sinister and wrong with having such a view being proud of war equipment? SHould the russians say: "Look at our great Kalashnikov, It killed more than 20.000.000.. Its just Amazing". =D

Just amazing. Makes my bosson swell of pride of my Swedish land.

I hope you get shot by 1 of your own Swedish weapons and then you can lie there with an open gut.. whispering your last word: "amazing"!

[agwhitaker]

@smorgasbord3 We know, we know. Sweden made a lots and lots of money selling Bofors and Oerlikon automatic gun systems to BOTH sides during WWII.

[smorgasbord3]

Only one Swedish submarine has ever sank. That submarine sank by a German mine during WW2, no contractions mistakes. In my opinion the Gotland class submarine is one of the absolutely best submarine in the world, this because she has in exercises with the Americans sank a several numbers of ships for example The USS Ronald Reagan and one atomic sub. The Colin class submarine certainly shares a lot of technology with this submarine. Kockums manufactures excellent submarines!

[AussieSubmariner]

Hello for all those uneducated personel out there this doco was made 15 years ago and i have servered on 5 out of the 6 collins class submarines in service and i will inform you that they are more capable and deadly as any submarine in the world. They are quiet, powerful and deadly against any warship or submarine in the word. Proven Against the americans and the british and many other countries over time. We have come along way since this doco and will only go from strength to strength.

[61Elmore]

cheers i hope to see you soon on them =]

[joakimwohlfeil]

rather strange report, what is really the problem. Any SUB rewealing it´s scope to the enemy is dead meat. It was the first "sharp" drill whit a new type of boat. The Collins are relatives to the Swedish A16/A18 class known to have outsmarted both USN LA and Seawolf classes. Thought larger and regrettably not including the Kockums-AIP-system.

[Cullyn42]

By all accounts when we first got the Collins they were pretty shitty. Have a read up on the latest reports on them though, seems like somebody has really done a good job with them.

[ebglider91]

All subs are pottentialy unsafe. Although any sub made by a company whose name sounds like 'Cock-ups' is possibly more-so. But the RAN is doing fine with them

[Scurck]

The major cock-up regarding this sub is when you unexperienced Aussies failed to build the excellent Swedish subs properly you went to the Americans for help and revealed secret Swedish military techs...

[ebglider91]

The major cock-ups were on the Swedish built subs, the ones built in Australia were fine. The Swedes fucked up mightily with the construction

[Scurck]

Riight.

So Australia who had never built a sub before did everything correct while Sweden who have designed and built 79 subs at the extreme forefront of submarine tech for over a 100 years failed?

I really hope you see the picture...

[ebglider91]

Kockums was behind nearly all the design and technology in the sub. When they were built in Australia, design flaws and all, the inexpeirenced Australian shipyards were left to work it out on their own by the Swedes.

[Scurck]

No subs built in Sweden have ever had such problems.

You where left on your own after you revealed the secret Swedish tech to the americans. Why should Sweden keep helping you when you fuck upp, blame Kockums and then give Swedish tech to the americans?

[ebglider91]

Bullshit. How about the fact that right from the start, Swedish welding of the bow section of the first submarine was screwed up. After that the Australian DSTO came up with a way to fix it, and tests on the later Australian-made hull section welds have not revealed a single flaw. Don't blame Australia for Kockums fuck ups.

[ebglider91]

Still, most of the kinks have been worked out now anyway.

[DeafFret]

@Scurck hey, Kockums Sweden built the bow section of the first ship in the fleet, HMAS Collins. The welding was faulty and it leaked. Having "designed and built 79 subs at the extreme forefront of submarine tech for over a 100 years", how can that be? I guess that sometimes they fuck up.

[dingorex]

Awesome report

[uniballvision]

Great Stuff!