For the truth about religion try Robert M. Price, ' The reason driven life ' or John W. Loftus or Victor J. Stenger, ' God, the failed hypothesis' . Also interesting to have a look at the 1500BCE papyrus of Ani, with its god Osiris who weighs the heart to decide who can pass to the land of the living.[ The need to know the names of the gods & the negative confession & other magic texts to get there]. James Frazer's 'The Golden Bough' and C.S. Lewis, 'Mere Christianity'
@theNCGstudios I might watch it, but it even says in james, preaching that might sound really good, but its not from the bible, its demonic. and i dont have to argue with that, i dont think rob bell can, and he doesnt believe in hell now? How demonic is that
I answered to the wrong verse, I didnt look until now. I thought it was about the children of wrath. So my guess is your saying that all are saved by showing me Eph 2:5,8?? I don't see that. And you can't build a theology on a couple of verses.
Who is Paul refering?? The whole world?? No. The elect of God. Paul teaches about that as well. So you're argument is in error.
So, do you think that Paul was saying that God "made us alive with Christ" 2000 years ago, i.e., God "quickened us together with Christ" 2000 years ago? Or do you think that Paul's use of "made us alive with Christ" has a subsequent sense like an iterative?
English translations are just too awkward and carry too much English baggage: the metalanguage of theology. If one is going to practice honesty, then translations should never be thought of as an equivalent to a Greek or Hebrew Read; translations are simply platforms by which glosses are used to convey a sense of commentary; they are a bit wooden and they do lack the ease of language and sense, and yet, you spin them as if they are without err; it's like pretending reality--deceptive/sick....
So you proved your point because it doesn't say Lazerus believed in Jesus?? Does it imply that we all go to heaven, NO. You would have to read into it. The NT is full of verses on believing, on faith, you have no ground to stand on, just lies.
Lets look what Jesus said. Repent or persish. How about John 3:16-18.
Why do we go and preach the gospel?? So those people will be saved. Gods elect, His chosen, as His word says. Romans ch9.
Let's see if you can follow Paul's chain of logic; it's quite a Greek thing, but try. Did God foreknow all, or some? I will give you this passage if it helps: For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified. (NIV Rom 8:29-30)
It sounds like that you are admitting that Lazarus went to Abraham's side without any evidence of his (Lazarus) believing in Jesus. It sounds like that you are agreeing that Jesus wasn't trying to teach that believing determines where you go in this tory about Lazarus. So, would it be safe to conclude that the rich man wasn't burning in literal fire since he's having a rational conversation with Abraham and experiencing a time of repentance?
@theNewCovenantGroup The horse is dead stop beating it. Belief is essential for all people to be saved, says Jesus. The story of Lazerus was not about belief, was it?? No.
The Fact on MUST repent and believe is throughout the scripture, my 7 yr old could see it. You can try to add your spin about Lazerus but Gods word is clear.
John 3:16-18 One must believe, if they don't they are under Gods judgment.
@theNewCovenantGroup The rich man even said go tell my brothers so they don't come here, what did Abraham say, they have Moses and the Prophets. Not one person will have an excuse. Even without the scripture Gods creation is enough to show there is a God. Romans Ch 1
Remeber, Jesus said unless you repent you will perish.
The rich man did repent in the grave, and we should thank God for his better manner of thinking and how he (the rich man) so wanted to change the lives of others for the better. In the story, Jesus uses his mind change, the repentance of the rich man, to evangelize others. What a wonderful story of repentance, and what a wonderful Jesus-! For it's the goodness of God that causes the mind to change for the better--even in the grave.
If you want to talk about God and how He deals with wrongs, you might want to consider what Paul writes: Love keeps no record of wrongs, and since God is love, you do the math. In fact, God puts mercy on our wrong doing and refuses to hear arguments concerning our sins, for He does not allow for the remembrance of sin, much less the augments accusing us of sin. So, it's best to trust God, not the accuser.
@theNewCovenantGroup You heresy is when you pick little snipits of verses and build your universalist heresy.
You failed to bring the sense of Paul, he is talking about how we love others, not God loving others. That is a huge misinterpretation, and you teach??? God will do the same, when one repents(as He commanded) and by faith trusts/believes in Christ and only then.(As the scripture says)
If God is telling us that we should keep no record of wrongs, for love doesn't keep a record of wrongs, then it would be hypocritical of Him to love differently and keep a record of wrongs. I think that God practices what He teaches us to do, and so does Rob Bell; he's a good man and God is a good God: For God said that "nothing can can separate us from His love", but unfortunately, the illiterate does cripple the Read to/for the few on the pew.
@theNewCovenantGroup and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they may be saved. 2 Timothy 2:10
he's just like everyone else. Just part of the seprents seed. King james was born 6, 1566, 6th of scotland, he authorized 66 books and called them the word of God. Jesus is the word. the only way to be free from the bible is with the HOLY GHOST seed. THE BIBLE IS THE MARK OF THE BEAST
Rob Bell is a good man, but religious folk would rather black ball this man than be completely honest about what he is doing, writing, saying, and thinking. So, the name calling continues "In the Name of Jesus"--it's just too sick, and yet, isn't that what Protestantism, Catholicism, Judaism, and other isms do naturally:-)
God is love, mercy, grace, AND just, vengeance, wrath, judgment. This is the trut God. If God is good, and He is, then he will give justice to unrepentant sinners, it's throughout His word.
People need to stop uploading 25 second incriminating videos about people taken right out of context. I have no idea what to think about Rob Bell because people are either greatly for or greatly opposed to him, stop these biased discussions against ministers and only expose if you are intellectually qualified to present the falsehood of false teachings in an unbiased, scripturally exegetic manner, not just putting up ambiguous secular news clips feeding people's already warped opinions.
The manuscripts of the Greek and Hebrew Scripture do not support the doctrines of "hell", but mythology does. So, do you just like mythology that much, or do you just like the ills of the synthetic language flux of theology more? Out of curiosity, do you also advocate the infanticide, genocide, and the Killing of All But 8 Theology of the canons of Judaism, Catholicism, and Protestantism as just? Do you also advocate the Jephthath offering as just?
You are avoiding my questions and pretending that there is a hell, and unfortunately, that is what all good Catholics and Protestants do: parrot & dodge for the sake of blind faith. So, if judgement comes, the Scripture isn't a good Read, but if it doesn't come, the Scripture is spot on. May God bless you with a reason to think, and please answer my questions-!
@theNewCovenantGroup just wait and be prepare, you will see the your hell soon!!!
what`s the point of answering on your "questions"-your point of view? you do not want to listen about the truth and you thinking that you know the best!
I do not believe I know it for sure!
good luck in your searching, unfortunately under influence of devil
Teaching hell is child abuse, and it's quite sad that you like fueling its harm. There is nothing about hell that isn't mythology, and yet, you want to spin the illiterate model of its use. You need to rethink your position; too many children are being harmed by your sick doctrine.
Warning others of what God might do to them, i.e., if they don't trust Him, is like warning others of what a rapist might do to them, i.e., if they do not trust, or give in to them. So, spin the "devil" if you will, but I would hope that you would move past theater and start thinking. For your comments are harmful, sick, and quite foolish, but then again, that might be your religion. Btw, I really think you are too smart to spin "hell" as reality, so, follow Christ, not religion.
@theNewCovenantGroup Yes your comments are harmful, you are deceiving people with your lie.
"Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels... Matthew 25:41
"These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life" Matthew 25:46
And eternal does mean forever. So start your spin.
Teaching Hell Is Child Abuse, and it's quite illiterate to say that God actually spoke of hell in any sense.... As for your sound bytes of theology, why don't you do the better Read before you spin it's use. The context has nothing to do with what you are trying to say. The time and target sensitivity of the Greek mss in your quoted passages cannot be applied to the modern in any sense, i.e., if the paradigmatic paradigms of the linguistic finds are true.
@theNewCovenantGroup Lets see, compare Jesus with a rapist hmmm. God is love. God is mercy and grace. God is also wrath, vengeance, wrath and just, He will judge unrepentant sinners, if He is good, and He is. You are not afforded the right to stand in judgment on God or His holy word, who are you? Does the clay say to the potter why have you made me this way??
You said, "So spin the 'devil' if you will". So you don't think there is a devil/Satan????
The Bible that you read was canonized by men and translated by men, not God. So, you are making any sense as to your argument: man not having any judgement as to what the canon is etc.
@theNewCovenantGroup Now I see your true colors. "Teaching hell is child abuse", really? is hell a bible doctrine? Yes. Not to teach hell or to deny it, is to deny scripture.
I guess you believe whatever you want in scripture? You pick what you like, this is dangerous and should cause you concern, are you saved?
Hell is not a 'position', it's a clear bible doctrine.
It's stupid to think that "the doctrine of hell" is in the mss of the Greek and Hebrew Scripture. The only reason that you have "hell" in English Reads has nothing to do with accuracy, but everything to do with the metalanguage of theology--and keep in mind that this invented metalanguage of theology has satyrs, unicorns, hell, and other mythological toys. So, if you want to be honest, don't spin the synthetic language flux of the English It Series as God's Word-!
@theNewCovenantGroup Hell is clear and unicorns are real, they're called rhinos. the invention is denying what Jesus and the rest of scripture teaches.
The fantasy, the myth is your false belief and your religion.
If you think "unicorns" are "rhinos", then you will probably tell me that satyrs are Baptist Preachers. LOL-! Or do you actually believe "satyrs" exists? If so, explain-! (I've never heard of an adult who actually believed in "satyrs", or the tooth fairy.) My point is: you are defending a metalanguage of theology/mythology and treating the Greek and Hebrew mss of Scripture with contempt, and yet, you argue as if you are being honest with Scripture itself. How unfortunate....
@theNewCovenantGroup You're lying. That's the issue. I'm sure Satan appreciates you telling people there is no hell. You didn't answer my question, do you believe there is a devil aka Satan?
You didn't comment on the Matthew verses either, why?
The writers of Scripture used terms in which the translators framed as "devil" and "satan". In most cases, these terms are metonymy; it would be rather foolish to suggest that the language flux of Scripture supports a literal in any of the inflections extant, i.e., if the Greek and Hebrew mss of Scripture are to be read as language docs.
I'm UnChurched, and I'm all too thankful for Jesus Christ living in me. For He is my strength, my shield, and the One who gives me life. We should all praise Him.
@theNewCovenantGroup Your jesus is one you have made, that's idolatry. The Jesus of the bible(Gods word) does not save everyone. He is the Jesus that said unless you repent you will perish. He is the Jesus that said if you don't believe you are under Gods judgment and wrath(present tense).He is the Jesus who is God, who commands all people everywhere to repent.He commands that believers go preach repentance. He is the Jesus that spoke of hell more than anyone.
Your bias is pitiful, and unfortunately, it's all too common with those who have parked their minds in fixed belief-isms like Protestantism: an ism without logic, or honesty. With your kind of Flat Earth Theology, you probably won't venture to think, or reason beyond the shores of the King James Bible, or another Read of like err and mythology.
I did answer your question about Matthew's point of reference, but it's going to require of you to read the mss that I postured, i.e., before you can comprehend my answer. Out of curiosity, do you actually believe in "satyrs"? If so, why?
I can't agree with your rendering of God, or His Word, but I can say that you and everyone else is going to heaven. You seem to put too much stock in man, i.e., you trust that the canons are right, even though they have more flaws than me, and you seem to think that the almost 400,000 textual variants of the mss of the Greek NT isn't a problem. Unfortunately, you have bought into The Kind of Deponent Theology and its Like without really knowing what it is: stupid.
@theNewCovenantGroup I can't agree with your false heretical universalist lie. A lie that deceives people, that leads them to believe they are ok in their sin. What an absolute lie. Jesus talked about believing and repenting many times. About being born-again, about persihing, about eternal torment, as does the rest of scripture.
You will have greater judgment for teaching this heretical lie. And telling God that you'll do it your way, not His way.
Jesus isn't suggesting that Lazarus went to the good place because he believed in Jesus and the rich man went to what you call “hell” because he didn't believe in Jesus. For this isn't a who-you-believe-in passage/story, rather it's a story that shames the rich for not taking care of the poor.
The kind of torment in Greek is shame, not actual fire, but metaphoric, i.e., if the words of Jesus are to be taken as He used them. The rich man couldn’t speak as he did, intelligently, to Abraham if he were actually on fire—no one can, but he could if he were actually ashamed of his behavior, For the rich man wants to stop his family from continuing their lack of compassion for the hungry/poor, i.e., if he can.
This story isn't an original; it had been told by many other people for hundreds of years in many different cultures to make one point: be compassionate towards those in need. And Jesus simply borrowed this story to make this very point. So, May God bless us all with a lot more compassion.
@theNewCovenantGroupno sir, it was told by Jesus. He borrowed it, what? Sir you are deceived beyond measure. But lets say He borrowed it(though He didn't), what was the story telling? That there is a place of torment.
God is love, mercy, grace, AND just, vengeance, wrath, judgment. This is the trut God. If God is good, and He is, then he will give justice to unrepentant sinners, it's throughout His word.
Burning people forever isn't justice; it's insane and actually quite illiterate to suggest that the Scripture teaches so, i.e., in Greek and Hebrew. There isn't a hint of Lazarus being a believer, or a repentant in this story, yet you interpolate this nonsense into this parable. I will post later on this subject; I have another class to teach and my students are awaiting some more of what you despise: the language flux of the mss of Scripture....
If you can show me where Lazarus believed in Jesus, i.e., within the context of Luke 16:19-31, and how his belief in Jesus positioned him at Abraham's side after death, I will send you $100.00. If you can't do this, please be honest enough to those on YouTube, i.e., since you are not a heretic and I am, and apologize to them for misleading the meaning of the text: what Jesus said in Luke 16:19-31. It won't cost you a cent to be honest, but it would a breath of fresh air.
@theNewCovenantGroup Are you from the Jesus Seminar??? You lie about there being no hell and no devil, quite amazing. Jesus had stern words for those that take from His word. Repent.
@theNewCovenantGroup I'm the dumb one here, I'm actually conversing with someone who doesn't even believe there is a devil/Satan/lucifer. lol What do you do with those verses about Satan Mr. Spindoctor??
And the ones about eternal torment??
Is Jesus God? Is God a Trinity?? Why would Jesus say repent or perish?? Why would God command all people to repent?? Why are unbelievers under the wrath and judgment of God now??
How could you falsely say all people are ok, don't worry?? You lie
So, argue if you will that Lazarus believed in Jesus and how this believing bit of your theology positioned him at Abraham's side. We actually want to see how your reading comprehension works and what you honestly have to offer. We are all ears.
Life is hard when comprehension is difficult, so please be patient with this slow heretic: me; I'm really finding it difficult to swallow your prose on God/Jesus, but, then again, I believe that Jesus is God.
You're too hung up on the modern invention of "repent" and not yielding to the author's intent. For this reason and others, you are simply gaming the Text with your use of theological gloss: a poor synthetic.
Since all people have been declared righteous, I have no reason to think that they are not "ok" with God, i.e., if Paul knew what he was talking about. FYI: I'm not saying that everyone is doing an ok job at living a wonderful life in Christ, but I am saying that God is in all, and that's quite the game changer in what I mean as Ok. Ok?
@theNewCovenantGroup Really all people?? This is a lie. That's not the doctrine of the New Testament anywhere. Those who repent and believe. You said everyone is ok, dont worry. God is not in all, the scripture does not teach that.
The scripture is crystal clear on repentance and faith in Christ aka believing. Christ also used one becoming a disciple as a synonym for believing in Him. In the context of that verse where He was saying becoming a disciple and taking up your cross and finished....
i didn't think you could explain Lazarus not believing in Jesus, but I thought you might get a little bit more honest about what Jesus said. But then again, that would destroy your argument/theology.
I would bet that lots of people are going to want to hear your take on this one: There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and IN ALL. (NIV Ephesians 4:4-6)
Maybe you can give me another lecture on why you have applied the term heretic to Rob Bell and me.
Teaching Hell is Child Abuse. No good Father would create a torture chamber to burn His created children in, but unfortunately, those who wrote mythology and the metalanguage of theology didn't mind creating this theater of terror and abuse, for it was how they controlled the minds of others--you know the kind; the repent, or burn kind of stuff/theology that a rapist offers in the name of love. Serve Me, or I Will Burn You Theology isn't a love message, but one of sickness-!
FYI: Jesus never talked about hell in any sense, but unfortunately, you seem to think that He did. So, if you are going to advocate the English It Series, you have not understood Christ. Over the next 20 years scores of works , including translations, will surface that have no hell. The only works that will have "hell" in them will be the ones that have no fluency model of translation. So, you can keep spinning your fantasy (hell) while the rest of us enjoy an honest Read.
@theNewCovenantGroup You said, "The only works that will have "hell" in them will be the ones that have no fluency model of translation. So, you can keep spinning your fantasy (hell) while the rest of us enjoy an honest Read." Gods word says, "Professing to be wise they became fools."
You do not want honesty, you don't want to accept what God says because the thought of hell is hard to imagine. But not because it's not in scripture, it clearly is. Repent!
Hell was the invention of/from those who wrote mythology, and it's stupid to make it into a reality, i.e., if the Greek and Hebrew mss of the Scripture are more than linguistically sound. But, if you would rather transport mythology into Scripture as a synthetic like some of the translators did who were obligated to follow the theology of their hire, then that is also stupid.
@theNewCovenantGroup I'll stick with the words of Christ. You keep trying to sound smart but you cant explain away what the outcome is for unbelievers, in Greek or english. It's quite clear. I think you're on here trying to blow up your ego. You're beyong child abuse, you are false teaching. Repent.
Bell isn't claiming to be without err, but he is doing a wonderful job rethinking his positions on theology. So, I applaud his honesty and love the man. For he is a good man trying to clean up a big mess: the metalanguage of theology/mythology.
Good men don't pervert the truth. If this man knew God, he would know the truth. He is a false teacher leading many away from God and eternal life with Him. How awful for all who choose to believe Bell's easy message. They will find for themselves that hell is a real place. "...let God be true but every man a liar..." (Rom 3:4)
Romans 3:4 is about God's faithfulness. Paul writes about how faithful He is to the unbeliever: Rom 3:3 What then? If some did not believe, will their unbelief cancel God's faithfulness? 4 ABSOLUTELY NOT! God must be true, but everyone is a liar, as it is written: That You may be justified in Your words and triumph when You judge. The Greek is even more emphatic about His faithfulness than this English It Read. So, you might want to rethink. May God bless.
Romans 3:4 is true in any context. God's Word is ALWAYS true. Why don't you believe what God says? If you believe what Rob Bell believes, then you don't believe the Bible. Why?
Once again, you are failing Romans 3:4 by negating its context, but, then again, it might be your intention. Does God remain faithful to the unbeliever? If you say no, then entire your argument is working against the Text....
"But people are counted as righteous, not because of their work, but because of their faith in God who forgives sinners. " (Romans 4:5)
"...I no longer count on my own righteousness through obeying the law; rather, I become righteous through faith in Christ. For God’s way of making us right with himself depends on faith." (Phil 3:9)
This is what the bible says about being made righteous. Do you believe there is another way?
I don't think that you are rendering the English in a manner that is consistent with the Greek. Paul's usage of "faith" in Romans 4 isn't what Abraham does, but rather what he receives. In this context, "faith" is a gift, not an act of the mind. You might want to consider Paul's usage: ἀλλ' ἐνεδυναμώθη τῇ πίστει: but was empowered by faith. So, your point of "this is what the bible says about being made righteous" is simply a faux pas of the synthetic nature of hyperbolic theology.
I didn't render it - hundreds of Greek/Hebrew scholars did. Are you saying that ALL of them are wrong? There are many translations of the bible - translated by many different people. They all say the same thing. Why don't you believe? Answer: Because the evil that is hidden in your heart prevents you from believing God. As a result, you have fashioned a god for yourself that agrees with your own wicked desires. Repent, believe and be saved.
You're rendering an English translation as if it fits the model of clarity, and that has never been the intention of any translator to date. One would have to be a fool to say that the transport of Greek into English does not suffer loss. English hates the middle and passive voice, and yet, that's what you are dealing with (arguing against) in Paul's prose So, if think that keeping the English away from the Greek intent is wise, you have failed the author's intent.
I didn't realize just how wicked "theNewCovenantGroup" is until I watched a few of your videos. You are NOT from God. My hope and prayer is that ANYONE reading these comments will not be deceived by you, Rob Bell, etc. The Bible IS God's Word. It has been accurately and faithfully translated into many languages and understanding it comes through the Holy Spirit.
If Paul is right, nothing can separate any of us from the love of God. So, it would be quite useless to entertain a doctrine that says, "God rejectors will be eternally separated from God, or put in some kind of metaphorical hell forever". But, then again, that would not satisfy someone who thinks God ordered infanticide and took His Spirit away from one who didn't carry out His Killing Spree Theology.
The foul odor of your "teaching" is like a putrid stench that hangs in the air. And yet, it will smell sweet to those who are accustomed to wallowing in the mud.
@theNewCovenantGroup Paul was writing to whom? Believers, it's for believers. Nothing can seprate true believers from God's love. Unbelievers are under His judgment, see John 3:18.
You said, "Nothing can seprate true believers from God's love". Do you tell your children that your love for them will not depart from them as long as they are a "true believer" in you? Does a loving Father tell His created children when they do wrong, "You must get out, die, and burn forever, or trust the shed blood of my Son: the One who died so that I, God, can get rid of my anger, wrath, and resentment towards you".
@theNewCovenantGroup So compating our relationship to our children is the same as people with God?? No. God is not Father to unbelievers, get that straight. Unbelievers are children of wrath as it says in Ephesians, until they repent and trust in Christ. Absolutley nowhere does scripture teach we all get in, nor does it teach that the work of Christ is for everyone, it's only for those who repent, who are theses? Gods elect, God chooses. No one comes to Christ unless the Father draw them.
The distant cry of the many is never heard, never cared upon, when the evangelist's pitch is "Atonement blessings are only to the ones who hear"; what prejudice does is to their shame.
God didn't set up a prerequisite for mercy to be applied to sin, for Paul argues: As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies on your account; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, for God's gifts and his call are irrevocable. Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience...
...so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now receive mercy as a result of God's mercy to you. For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all. (Rom 11:28-32 NIV) So, if Paul argued for the all, why don't you?
I'm rephrasing for your benefit; I hope this helps: If Paul used a punctiliar styled syntax (one that leaves no room for subsequent action) to illustrate when He ”quickened us together with Christ”, and if he emphasized it as to the timing of our new life, then “it is by grace you have been saved” of verse 5 would have to be referent to this one-time event, i.e., if Paul’s writing is linguistically sound, thus leaving no room for a modern day “faith prerequisite” to get saved.
The Greek, διὰ τῆς πίστεως (Eph 2:8 BYZ) διὰ πίστεως (Eph 2:8 BNT) with its variants, certainly doesn’t support a modern-faith prerequisite for salvation as religious folk suggest, but does support a faith that came when Christ came. Note the Greek article and the preposition in the first variant of Read; they are not genitive-feminine for a case of accidental antecedent confusion, and they are not serving faith as the modern tries to render it.
Repent or perish as Christ said. If you dont you're under Gods wrath and judgment. All are not saved. Gods elect will be saved as the scripture teaches.
Your argument isn't literate, but it is mean and against Paul's writings. So, please answer the questions that I posed to you from Ephesians 2:5 and its context, i.e, if you can be kind enough to do so to/for this heretic and one under God's wrath.
@theNewCovenantGroup Not literate, because you can't read?? Read it for yourself. I don't know Greek. I can read what scholars say about it. You are in error. You may think you have some err of sophistications because you put some greek on the screen. I'm not impressed. Before Christ we are childrfen of wrath. Scripture explains scripture, go to John and read John 3:18, 36. It's quite clear. Universalism is heresy.
@theNewCovenantGroup How does Ephesians start? Eph 1:4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world....then v5 says predestined, then in v11. Then in Romans 8:29,30, then in 1 Cor 2:7.
There are many more throughout the bible. Those God predestined/chose,elected are the only ones who will be saved. This is not universal election. Romans Ch 9
Let's examine Ephesians 2:5 for what it says, not for what the Universalist's want to make it say, but for what it actually says. Are you willing to do this? And FYI: I'm not a supporter of Universalism for various reasons, for its hermeneutic is as poor as the Protestant hermeneutic.... Universalism, Judaism, Catholicism, Protestantism, and the rest of their likes are far removed from ethical and rational practices of an honest Read.
A little dialog about this verse, Ephesians 2:5, in context would be a nice piece for this YT video and its audience.
It's quite sad that too many are bashing Rob Bell without knowing the context of his work/heart. So, let's give this verse and others a chance with context and have some beneficial dialog.
@theNewCovenantGroup Before the foundation oif the world He predestined us....your heresy has so many holes. Your jesus cant save anyone, because its an idol.
>Unless you repent you will all likewise perish Luke 13:5
>He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. John 3:18
@theNewCovenantGroup >He who beleves in the Son has eternal life, but he who does not obey the Son of God will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him. John 3:36.
>...by nature the children of wrath. Ephesians 2:3
>to open their eyes so that they mat turrn from darkness to light and from the dominion of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who have been sanctified by faith in Me. Acts 26:18.................
For some reason you overlooked my earlier comment and avoided Paul's point: If Paul argued that "[God] made us alive with Christ", i.e., made us alive spiritually with Christ 2000 years ago, and it judicially met the prerequisites for "it is by grace you have been saved" in Eph. 2:5, and he did, and if Paul utilized this verse to define verse 8, and he did, then how could any person meet the conditions for which Paul argued, but Christ 2000 years ago?
Why are you avoiding Paul's premise in Ephesians: If Paul's usage of the aorist-singular verb συνεζωοποίησεν works in a time-sensitive concert with τῷ Χριστῷ, then how could any person meet the conditions for which Paul argued, but Christ 2000 years ago?
I would hate to think that you could not grasp what Paul said here: If Paul's usage of συνεζωοποίησεν τῷ Χριστῷ indicates an event of time-sensitivity as to when God actually made us alive with Christ, then why would anyone argue that one is dead in transgressions after that point in time? The point is: your argument is against the Grammar, context, and language sense of Paul's writings. You're failing to see that your argument is against Paul, and that's sad-!
John 3:16 has become the modern-whipping post for those who don't believe. Children get Scripture whipped with this passage every day, and yet, evangelicals are proud. It’s become the Heaven or Hell Tactic of our Day. So, what ever happened to context? And who will protect my grandchildren?
@theNewCovenantGroup It's clear from scripture, lost people are children of wrath and in the dominion of Satan, they are not children of God until they repent and trust in Christ. Acts 26:18 proves this, which is what the rest of scripture says. God chooses/elects.
>For He says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy. Rom 9:15-16
@theNewCovenantGroup This is for you. "Who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, why did you make me like this?" Romans 9:20
Sometimes people get fixed in belief and they fail the challenges of real honesty and real truth; it's like getting parked in the Dark Ages and liking it.... It's sad when I hear those who argue from the canons of Judaism, Catholicism, and Protestantism; they take a closed-minded approach to a lie and call it truth.
FYI: Translations are simply models of translation theory and models of synthetic-theological gloss, and there are scores of them. All translations do not have the same text base, nor do they agree on deponent complexities etc. So, you might need to rethink your spin on translation models; they are much variegated and their source mss have almost 400,000 textual variants to date.
Since, extant English translations are translation models, and these models represent a synthetic-language transport rather than a model of language-fluency transport, then one must exercise much caution. These extant translations are similar to an English-only student sitting in a room with a Greek Text and inventing his own "Greek" pronunciation, Grammar, and semantic domain fields. And I'm really understating the problems with this example.
When unicorns, satyrs, and hell are embedded and accepted as inerrant truth, i.e., within the framework of the mind concerning the Bible, it’s time to "Rethink" our reasons for accepting this duplicitous harangue as truth. Why people do accept these not-so-minor-duplicities and abdicate the impervious evidence of what is found in ancient mss alone is more than just a little deceptive.
Why do you think that translating mythological terms into the Scripture is good? For some strange reason, you keep trying to justify the use of mythological gloss in the English It Series of Scripture; it's not honest, but it's Protestantism's best. So, please do your spin with "satyr", and tell the common why he should trust "satyr" as an accurate representation of what God said, and why so-called Bible translators use the gloss of mythology so much to support Church doctrine.
It's unfortunate that you would advocate the ill methods and practices of those who have fabricated the doctrines of hell and tortured the minds and lives of little children with its err. When an individual argues that burning and torturing people forever is just, we know that they are but the product and the parrot of a theology gone mad. For no one in right mind will argue that we should take hell beyond mythology and into reality.
If Paul argued that "[God] made us alive with Christ", i.e., made us alive spiritually with Christ 2000 years ago, and it judicially met the prerequisites for "it is by grace you have been saved" in Eph. 2:5, and he did, and if Paul utilized this verse to define verse 8, and he did, then how could any person meet the conditions for which Paul argued, but Christ 2000 years ago?
If Paul's usage of the aorist-singular verb συνεζωοποίησεν works in a time-sensitive concert with τῷ Χριστῷ, then how could any person meet the conditions for which Paul argued, but Christ 2000 years ago? Let me rephrase the question: If Paul's usage of συνεζωοποίησεν τῷ Χριστῷ indicates an event of time-sensitivity as to when God actually made us alive with Christ, then why would anyone argue that one is dead in transgressions after that point in time?
When we relegate God to bypass His Word, play the role of a puppet, and start justifying people on prompt, permission, trust, and a cookie, we have joined the circus.
It should be refreshing (for all) to see that Rob Bell isnt boxed in Baptist garb et al., i.e., if an honest Read has any value! So, let's give Rob Bell what he deserves: our patience, kindness, and support. For a good Father doesn't want His children to feel as if they don't deserve His love and support.
Actually anything that detracts from the light is darkness so if Rob Bell is teaching another (false) doctrine then to call attention to it is illuminating the freaking dark for Christ sake (literally!). That is the point in all the hubbub about Rob Bell he is preaching another (false) doctrine and Paul himself said if anyone did that they should be accursed.
Rob Bell is a fallen member of the devil's minions. He does NOT believe the Bible is the inspired Word of God. He is leading his followers to the road to perdition and not to God. Pray for him, he is a sinner not a man of God.
The content isn't the same in all versions or Text bases. Many problems do exist in translations and source documents; there are almost 400,000 textual variants in the NT mss alone, and this is the least of our problems. Christians need to face the many facts of textual errs, canonical errs, translation errs, and the list is so much greater than what Christians are willing to face up to. It would be more than disingenuous to take extant English versions and spin Soteriology.
Do you also support this bit of Judaism: your canon: Suppose a man comes across a virgin who is not engaged and overpowers and rapes her and they are discovered. The man who has raped her must pay her father fifty shekels of silver and she must become his wife because he has violated her; he may never divorce her as long as he lives. (Deu 22:28-29 NET)
Do you also support this bit of Judaism: When the Israelites were in the wilderness they found a man gathering wood on the Sabbath day. Those who found him gathering wood brought him to Moses and Aaron and to the whole community. They put him in custody, because there was no clear instruction about what should be done to him. Then the LORD said to Moses, "The man must surely be put to death; the whole community must stone him with stones outside the camp." continued...
My point is simple: if you honestly do the Read, you won't buy into what has been offered to the common as the so called canon of Judaism, or Christianity. Your just too smart to think that the so-called canons are without flaw, and your heart is just too good and filled with too much love to think that doing these horrible things might be good.
Rob Bell is a heretic. He denies the existence of eternal hell, even though the Bible clearly teaches eternal punishment for the unrepentant(Matthew 25:41). God is love, but He is also holy and just. God doesn't owe salvation to anyone because all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. God graciously offers salvation to all who will repent and put their faith in Jesus. Those who reject Jesus will be eternally separated from God in Hell.
@theNewCovenantGroup I'm not spinning Matt 25. It is about the final judgement, when Jesus will separate the believers from the unbelievers, and to the unbelievers, He will say "Depart from Me, into the eternal fire..." (Matthew 25:41). Hell is not a pleasant thought, but God's word clearly teaches eternal punishment for the unrepentant. We cannot deny God's word because His word is truth.
When passages are target-sensitive and time-sensitve...one needs to practice a little caution before rendering tropes, nuances, idioms and the likes, i.e., if an understanding of context is desired more than an err in language flux. Too many times the modern makes the mistake of using English gloss to avoid the manner in which Jesus and Matthew utilized syntagmatic elements to/for the benefit of the intended target. So, please do the Read again; the modern isn't intended.
Churches are shrinking because people don't like the truth of the Bible, they want their own reality to become truth and unfortunately that will lead you straight to hell.
We know where the type of "truth" that you are talking about will lead....away from the God of the bible. Truth isn't relative it's absolute and it's found in the Bible. Rob Bell isn't searching for truth; he is out to make a God in his own likeness. That's idol worship.
Just got home and there was nothing to eat in the house. Thought about nipping down to Waitrose, but that would mean cooking when I got home. Thought about going for a pizza instead. Went for a pizza. Feel a bit flat after the pizza. Just check online, and Sainsburys at Ladbroke Grove is open until midnight! So going to go there for a reasonable size shop. About the only thing I REALLY need is some milk, but I may as well get some other things while I'm there...
lol I don't think Rob Bell cares about being a good man. Whatever that means or looks like, he just cares about Truth. I don't have all the answers and neither does Rob. But, he wrestles with life and his heart is after truth and the mystery of God. No one has it right, and no one will ever get it right. But do your best to be an honest person, to be a righteous person. Don't defend your belief, but be open to the truth wherever that takes you.
The college class that I just finished up we used Rob Bell's book Velvet Elvis & at 1st I thought this sucks BUT I was required to read more & it got better while his book was pretty good I liked the video's he has made that Prof. Best showed us almost every week (I'm taking a program-Where we have our bachellor's degree in 18 months & so we get a new Prof. every 5 weeks)- those were AWESOME & alot of my classmates said their churches had used them on Sunday nights during their services!
@kardzfn21 that is disheartening that these are being used for sunday services, honestly. this is not how worship and fellowship is supposed to be, scripturally-speaking. im a college student as well, but the lense through which Bell interprets the bible is very skewed and vague. he eisegetes instead of exegetes. he dances the line on issues that are considered unorthodox to classical christian faith. he does not teach the full gospel. it's impartial at best or (lets hope not) heretical at worst
If some of you would actually read your Bible, if you have one, you would realize that true Christians are told to point out and name the names of false teachers and those preaching a 'different Jesus.' The masses of people that attend these 'churches' are getting what they want, a god made in their own image and not the true God. Rob Bell is a 'wolf in sheeps clothing' and a false teacher.
@matthewkooshad Simple, a false teacher is someone that teaches a 'different' Gospel as Paul put it. These emergents are trying to redefine Christianity but what they are doing is going farther away from the true Gospel. Rob Bell adds his own theology and strays from the truth to suit his own desires. There is abundant information on rob bells heretical teachings. Compare him to the Gospel and it won't take long to realize he is not in Christ's Church.
@summa1129 i feel like his words should be listened to After knowing the gospel and presented by someone who knows the gospel to guide the the conversation. i agree with others in the way that he is helping people think about what Jesus calls us to do. i think people should indeed know gospel before listening to rob. i think it's scary ground someone treads to say he's not in God's church or our brother. take care; God says we'll be judged in the same way we judge others -- same measure of mercy
@matthewkooshad Any Christian is called to point out those preaching a false gospel or even an altered gospel. Compare bell's teachings to the Bible and you have a severely altered gospel. Compare his use of scriptur in his book 'velvet elvis' and you find a molested use of scripture. We will be judged in how we treat others indeed, but we will also be judged in adhering to the true Gospel and not allowing the Gospel to be distorted.
For the truth about religion try Robert M. Price, ' The reason driven life ' or John W. Loftus or Victor J. Stenger, ' God, the failed hypothesis' . Also interesting to have a look at the 1500BCE papyrus of Ani, with its god Osiris who weighs the heart to decide who can pass to the land of the living.[ The need to know the names of the gods & the negative confession & other magic texts to get there]. James Frazer's 'The Golden Bough' and C.S. Lewis, 'Mere Christianity'
zytigon 4 months ago
Bell's approach seems to be working.
theNCGstudios 6 months ago
@theNCGstudios Bell isnt preaching the truth, he is tickling peoples ears actually. yeah bells' approach is working but god's isn't.
MiniMattGreiner 6 months ago 2
@MiniMattGreiner,
Watch our video, you might think differently. May God bless.
theNCGstudios 6 months ago
@theNCGstudios I might watch it, but it even says in james, preaching that might sound really good, but its not from the bible, its demonic. and i dont have to argue with that, i dont think rob bell can, and he doesnt believe in hell now? How demonic is that
MiniMattGreiner 6 months ago
I answered to the wrong verse, I didnt look until now. I thought it was about the children of wrath. So my guess is your saying that all are saved by showing me Eph 2:5,8?? I don't see that. And you can't build a theology on a couple of verses.
Who is Paul refering?? The whole world?? No. The elect of God. Paul teaches about that as well. So you're argument is in error.
joeforHistruth 7 months ago
@joeforHistruth,
So, do you think that Paul was saying that God "made us alive with Christ" 2000 years ago, i.e., God "quickened us together with Christ" 2000 years ago? Or do you think that Paul's use of "made us alive with Christ" has a subsequent sense like an iterative?
theNewCovenantGroup 7 months ago
English translations are just too awkward and carry too much English baggage: the metalanguage of theology. If one is going to practice honesty, then translations should never be thought of as an equivalent to a Greek or Hebrew Read; translations are simply platforms by which glosses are used to convey a sense of commentary; they are a bit wooden and they do lack the ease of language and sense, and yet, you spin them as if they are without err; it's like pretending reality--deceptive/sick....
theNewCovenantGroup 7 months ago
So you proved your point because it doesn't say Lazerus believed in Jesus?? Does it imply that we all go to heaven, NO. You would have to read into it. The NT is full of verses on believing, on faith, you have no ground to stand on, just lies.
Lets look what Jesus said. Repent or persish. How about John 3:16-18.
Why do we go and preach the gospel?? So those people will be saved. Gods elect, His chosen, as His word says. Romans ch9.
Repent of your heresy.
joeforHistruth 7 months ago
@joeforHistruth,
Let's see if you can follow Paul's chain of logic; it's quite a Greek thing, but try. Did God foreknow all, or some? I will give you this passage if it helps: For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified. (NIV Rom 8:29-30)
theNewCovenantGroup 7 months ago
@joeforHistruth,
It sounds like that you are admitting that Lazarus went to Abraham's side without any evidence of his (Lazarus) believing in Jesus. It sounds like that you are agreeing that Jesus wasn't trying to teach that believing determines where you go in this tory about Lazarus. So, would it be safe to conclude that the rich man wasn't burning in literal fire since he's having a rational conversation with Abraham and experiencing a time of repentance?
If I'm incorrect, please advise.
theNewCovenantGroup 7 months ago
@theNewCovenantGroup The horse is dead stop beating it. Belief is essential for all people to be saved, says Jesus. The story of Lazerus was not about belief, was it?? No.
The Fact on MUST repent and believe is throughout the scripture, my 7 yr old could see it. You can try to add your spin about Lazerus but Gods word is clear.
John 3:16-18 One must believe, if they don't they are under Gods judgment.
Stop lying and repent!
There is not itme of repentance after death.
joeforHistruth 7 months ago
@theNewCovenantGroup The rich man even said go tell my brothers so they don't come here, what did Abraham say, they have Moses and the Prophets. Not one person will have an excuse. Even without the scripture Gods creation is enough to show there is a God. Romans Ch 1
Remeber, Jesus said unless you repent you will perish.
You should repent.
joeforHistruth 7 months ago
@joeforHistruth,
The rich man did repent in the grave, and we should thank God for his better manner of thinking and how he (the rich man) so wanted to change the lives of others for the better. In the story, Jesus uses his mind change, the repentance of the rich man, to evangelize others. What a wonderful story of repentance, and what a wonderful Jesus-! For it's the goodness of God that causes the mind to change for the better--even in the grave.
theNewCovenantGroup 7 months ago
@joeforHistruth,
If you want to talk about God and how He deals with wrongs, you might want to consider what Paul writes: Love keeps no record of wrongs, and since God is love, you do the math. In fact, God puts mercy on our wrong doing and refuses to hear arguments concerning our sins, for He does not allow for the remembrance of sin, much less the augments accusing us of sin. So, it's best to trust God, not the accuser.
theNewCovenantGroup 7 months ago
@theNewCovenantGroup You heresy is when you pick little snipits of verses and build your universalist heresy.
You failed to bring the sense of Paul, he is talking about how we love others, not God loving others. That is a huge misinterpretation, and you teach??? God will do the same, when one repents(as He commanded) and by faith trusts/believes in Christ and only then.(As the scripture says)
joeforHistruth 7 months ago
@joeforHistruth,
If God is telling us that we should keep no record of wrongs, for love doesn't keep a record of wrongs, then it would be hypocritical of Him to love differently and keep a record of wrongs. I think that God practices what He teaches us to do, and so does Rob Bell; he's a good man and God is a good God: For God said that "nothing can can separate us from His love", but unfortunately, the illiterate does cripple the Read to/for the few on the pew.
theNewCovenantGroup 7 months ago
@theNewCovenantGroup and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they may be saved. 2 Timothy 2:10
joeforHistruth 7 months ago
he's just like everyone else. Just part of the seprents seed. King james was born 6, 1566, 6th of scotland, he authorized 66 books and called them the word of God. Jesus is the word. the only way to be free from the bible is with the HOLY GHOST seed. THE BIBLE IS THE MARK OF THE BEAST
MarkofBeastRevealed 7 months ago
Rob Bell is a good man, but religious folk would rather black ball this man than be completely honest about what he is doing, writing, saying, and thinking. So, the name calling continues "In the Name of Jesus"--it's just too sick, and yet, isn't that what Protestantism, Catholicism, Judaism, and other isms do naturally:-)
theNewCovenantGroup 7 months ago
God is love, mercy, grace, AND just, vengeance, wrath, judgment. This is the trut God. If God is good, and He is, then he will give justice to unrepentant sinners, it's throughout His word.
joeforHistruth 7 months ago
People need to stop uploading 25 second incriminating videos about people taken right out of context. I have no idea what to think about Rob Bell because people are either greatly for or greatly opposed to him, stop these biased discussions against ministers and only expose if you are intellectually qualified to present the falsehood of false teachings in an unbiased, scripturally exegetic manner, not just putting up ambiguous secular news clips feeding people's already warped opinions.
DexSenpai 7 months ago
80% people all around the world deserve for hell now and all will receive proof of that and warning next year!!!
people decide where they want to go!
This is last year of God˛s mercy!
JezusSlave 8 months ago
@JezusSlave,
Why would you say that burning and torturing people forever is just?
theNewCovenantGroup 7 months ago
@theNewCovenantGroup there is no another place for traitors who chose that way!
they do not care that God-creator of everything, their Father is tortured now and was killed to give them a chance!
They will be "tortured" by devils and evil they chose on Earth and by oneself, eternal opportunity of happiness they lost!
This is always a choice!!!
God wants everyone in eternal happiness in heaven with Him!!!
JezusSlave 7 months ago
@JezusSlave,
The manuscripts of the Greek and Hebrew Scripture do not support the doctrines of "hell", but mythology does. So, do you just like mythology that much, or do you just like the ills of the synthetic language flux of theology more? Out of curiosity, do you also advocate the infanticide, genocide, and the Killing of All But 8 Theology of the canons of Judaism, Catholicism, and Protestantism as just? Do you also advocate the Jephthath offering as just?
theNewCovenantGroup 7 months ago
@theNewCovenantGroup google "hell in the Bible" and do not waste time!
There is only one true religion and Church of Jesus Christ and this is the Catholic-Universal Apostolic Church
Prepare for sign and judgment of Holy Spirit soon!!!
JezusSlave 7 months ago
@JezusSlave,
You are avoiding my questions and pretending that there is a hell, and unfortunately, that is what all good Catholics and Protestants do: parrot & dodge for the sake of blind faith. So, if judgement comes, the Scripture isn't a good Read, but if it doesn't come, the Scripture is spot on. May God bless you with a reason to think, and please answer my questions-!
theNewCovenantGroup 7 months ago
@theNewCovenantGroup just wait and be prepare, you will see the your hell soon!!!
what`s the point of answering on your "questions"-your point of view? you do not want to listen about the truth and you thinking that you know the best!
I do not believe I know it for sure!
good luck in your searching, unfortunately under influence of devil
JezusSlave 7 months ago
@JezusSlave,
Teaching hell is child abuse, and it's quite sad that you like fueling its harm. There is nothing about hell that isn't mythology, and yet, you want to spin the illiterate model of its use. You need to rethink your position; too many children are being harmed by your sick doctrine.
theNewCovenantGroup 7 months ago
@theNewCovenantGroup ok devil, go to hell!
JezusSlave 7 months ago
@JezusSlave,
Warning others of what God might do to them, i.e., if they don't trust Him, is like warning others of what a rapist might do to them, i.e., if they do not trust, or give in to them. So, spin the "devil" if you will, but I would hope that you would move past theater and start thinking. For your comments are harmful, sick, and quite foolish, but then again, that might be your religion. Btw, I really think you are too smart to spin "hell" as reality, so, follow Christ, not religion.
theNewCovenantGroup 7 months ago
@theNewCovenantGroup Yes your comments are harmful, you are deceiving people with your lie.
"Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels... Matthew 25:41
"These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life" Matthew 25:46
And eternal does mean forever. So start your spin.
joeforHistruth 7 months ago
@joeforHistruth,
Teaching Hell Is Child Abuse, and it's quite illiterate to say that God actually spoke of hell in any sense.... As for your sound bytes of theology, why don't you do the better Read before you spin it's use. The context has nothing to do with what you are trying to say. The time and target sensitivity of the Greek mss in your quoted passages cannot be applied to the modern in any sense, i.e., if the paradigmatic paradigms of the linguistic finds are true.
theNewCovenantGroup 7 months ago
@theNewCovenantGroup Lets see, compare Jesus with a rapist hmmm. God is love. God is mercy and grace. God is also wrath, vengeance, wrath and just, He will judge unrepentant sinners, if He is good, and He is. You are not afforded the right to stand in judgment on God or His holy word, who are you? Does the clay say to the potter why have you made me this way??
You said, "So spin the 'devil' if you will". So you don't think there is a devil/Satan????
joeforHistruth 7 months ago
@joeforHistruth,
The Bible that you read was canonized by men and translated by men, not God. So, you are making any sense as to your argument: man not having any judgement as to what the canon is etc.
theNewCovenantGroup 7 months ago
@theNewCovenantGroup Now I see your true colors. "Teaching hell is child abuse", really? is hell a bible doctrine? Yes. Not to teach hell or to deny it, is to deny scripture.
I guess you believe whatever you want in scripture? You pick what you like, this is dangerous and should cause you concern, are you saved?
Hell is not a 'position', it's a clear bible doctrine.
joeforHistruth 7 months ago
@joeforHistruth,
It's stupid to think that "the doctrine of hell" is in the mss of the Greek and Hebrew Scripture. The only reason that you have "hell" in English Reads has nothing to do with accuracy, but everything to do with the metalanguage of theology--and keep in mind that this invented metalanguage of theology has satyrs, unicorns, hell, and other mythological toys. So, if you want to be honest, don't spin the synthetic language flux of the English It Series as God's Word-!
theNewCovenantGroup 7 months ago
@theNewCovenantGroup Hell is clear and unicorns are real, they're called rhinos. the invention is denying what Jesus and the rest of scripture teaches.
The fantasy, the myth is your false belief and your religion.
joeforHistruth 7 months ago
@joeforHistruth,
If you think "unicorns" are "rhinos", then you will probably tell me that satyrs are Baptist Preachers. LOL-! Or do you actually believe "satyrs" exists? If so, explain-! (I've never heard of an adult who actually believed in "satyrs", or the tooth fairy.) My point is: you are defending a metalanguage of theology/mythology and treating the Greek and Hebrew mss of Scripture with contempt, and yet, you argue as if you are being honest with Scripture itself. How unfortunate....
theNewCovenantGroup 7 months ago
@theNewCovenantGroup You're lying. That's the issue. I'm sure Satan appreciates you telling people there is no hell. You didn't answer my question, do you believe there is a devil aka Satan?
You didn't comment on the Matthew verses either, why?
joeforHistruth 7 months ago
@joeforHistruth,
The writers of Scripture used terms in which the translators framed as "devil" and "satan". In most cases, these terms are metonymy; it would be rather foolish to suggest that the language flux of Scripture supports a literal in any of the inflections extant, i.e., if the Greek and Hebrew mss of Scripture are to be read as language docs.
theNewCovenantGroup 7 months ago
@theNewCovenantGroup You are off your rocker. It is literal. There is a literal devil.
What religion are you???
joeforHistruth 7 months ago
@joeforHistruth,
I'm UnChurched, and I'm all too thankful for Jesus Christ living in me. For He is my strength, my shield, and the One who gives me life. We should all praise Him.
theNewCovenantGroup 7 months ago
@theNewCovenantGroup Your jesus is one you have made, that's idolatry. The Jesus of the bible(Gods word) does not save everyone. He is the Jesus that said unless you repent you will perish. He is the Jesus that said if you don't believe you are under Gods judgment and wrath(present tense).He is the Jesus who is God, who commands all people everywhere to repent.He commands that believers go preach repentance. He is the Jesus that spoke of hell more than anyone.
Your jesus is a false idol,repent
joeforHistruth 7 months ago
@joeforHistruth,
Your bias is pitiful, and unfortunately, it's all too common with those who have parked their minds in fixed belief-isms like Protestantism: an ism without logic, or honesty. With your kind of Flat Earth Theology, you probably won't venture to think, or reason beyond the shores of the King James Bible, or another Read of like err and mythology.
theNewCovenantGroup 7 months ago
@joeforHistruth,
I did answer your question about Matthew's point of reference, but it's going to require of you to read the mss that I postured, i.e., before you can comprehend my answer. Out of curiosity, do you actually believe in "satyrs"? If so, why?
theNewCovenantGroup 7 months ago
@theNewCovenantGroup You have answered nothing. The scripture is clear on the outcome of unbelievers.
Currently unbelievers are under Gods wrath and judgment. If they remain unrepentant that will not change for eternity.
joeforHistruth 7 months ago
@joeforHistruth,
I can't agree with your rendering of God, or His Word, but I can say that you and everyone else is going to heaven. You seem to put too much stock in man, i.e., you trust that the canons are right, even though they have more flaws than me, and you seem to think that the almost 400,000 textual variants of the mss of the Greek NT isn't a problem. Unfortunately, you have bought into The Kind of Deponent Theology and its Like without really knowing what it is: stupid.
theNewCovenantGroup 7 months ago
@theNewCovenantGroup I can't agree with your false heretical universalist lie. A lie that deceives people, that leads them to believe they are ok in their sin. What an absolute lie. Jesus talked about believing and repenting many times. About being born-again, about persihing, about eternal torment, as does the rest of scripture.
You will have greater judgment for teaching this heretical lie. And telling God that you'll do it your way, not His way.
joeforHistruth 7 months ago
@joeforHistruth,
I thank God for Rob Bell; he's more than just a good man: he has a heart for feeding the hungry and helping the needy.
theNewCovenantGroup 7 months ago
@theNewCovenantGroup "for I have five brothers, in order that he may warn them, so that they will not come to this place of torment." Luke 16:28
Place of torment, so God is just kidding???
joeforHistruth 7 months ago
@joeforHistruth,
Jesus isn't suggesting that Lazarus went to the good place because he believed in Jesus and the rich man went to what you call “hell” because he didn't believe in Jesus. For this isn't a who-you-believe-in passage/story, rather it's a story that shames the rich for not taking care of the poor.
theNewCovenantGroup 7 months ago
@joeforHistruth,
The kind of torment in Greek is shame, not actual fire, but metaphoric, i.e., if the words of Jesus are to be taken as He used them. The rich man couldn’t speak as he did, intelligently, to Abraham if he were actually on fire—no one can, but he could if he were actually ashamed of his behavior, For the rich man wants to stop his family from continuing their lack of compassion for the hungry/poor, i.e., if he can.
theNewCovenantGroup 7 months ago
@joeforHistruth,
This story isn't an original; it had been told by many other people for hundreds of years in many different cultures to make one point: be compassionate towards those in need. And Jesus simply borrowed this story to make this very point. So, May God bless us all with a lot more compassion.
theNewCovenantGroup 7 months ago
@theNewCovenantGroupno sir, it was told by Jesus. He borrowed it, what? Sir you are deceived beyond measure. But lets say He borrowed it(though He didn't), what was the story telling? That there is a place of torment.
God is love, mercy, grace, AND just, vengeance, wrath, judgment. This is the trut God. If God is good, and He is, then he will give justice to unrepentant sinners, it's throughout His word.
joeforHistruth 7 months ago
@joeforHistruth,
Burning people forever isn't justice; it's insane and actually quite illiterate to suggest that the Scripture teaches so, i.e., in Greek and Hebrew. There isn't a hint of Lazarus being a believer, or a repentant in this story, yet you interpolate this nonsense into this parable. I will post later on this subject; I have another class to teach and my students are awaiting some more of what you despise: the language flux of the mss of Scripture....
theNewCovenantGroup 7 months ago
@theNewCovenantGroup No need to post, you have no argument, just your vain heretical musings.
It's a terrible thing that you are teaching heresy to others, making them children of hell(as the scripture says).
There isn't a hint of Lazerus being a believer??? Where did he go?? Where do believers go according to scripture?? You are so dishonest!!
language...flux...your like a parrot. t's in the bible, many times, greek or english.
joeforHistruth 7 months ago
@joeforHistruth,
If you can show me where Lazarus believed in Jesus, i.e., within the context of Luke 16:19-31, and how his belief in Jesus positioned him at Abraham's side after death, I will send you $100.00. If you can't do this, please be honest enough to those on YouTube, i.e., since you are not a heretic and I am, and apologize to them for misleading the meaning of the text: what Jesus said in Luke 16:19-31. It won't cost you a cent to be honest, but it would a breath of fresh air.
theNewCovenantGroup 7 months ago
@joeforHistruth,
Rob Bell is a wonderful man doing what most can't: rethinking his theology. So, give him your love, not your bias.
theNewCovenantGroup 7 months ago
@theNewCovenantGroup "rethinking his theology" Another name for heresy. It is love to expose error.
joeforHistruth 7 months ago
@theNewCovenantGroup Are you from the Jesus Seminar??? You lie about there being no hell and no devil, quite amazing. Jesus had stern words for those that take from His word. Repent.
joeforHistruth 7 months ago
@theNewCovenantGroup I'm the dumb one here, I'm actually conversing with someone who doesn't even believe there is a devil/Satan/lucifer. lol What do you do with those verses about Satan Mr. Spindoctor??
And the ones about eternal torment??
Is Jesus God? Is God a Trinity?? Why would Jesus say repent or perish?? Why would God command all people to repent?? Why are unbelievers under the wrath and judgment of God now??
How could you falsely say all people are ok, don't worry?? You lie
joeforHistruth 7 months ago
@joeforHistruth,
So, argue if you will that Lazarus believed in Jesus and how this believing bit of your theology positioned him at Abraham's side. We actually want to see how your reading comprehension works and what you honestly have to offer. We are all ears.
Life is hard when comprehension is difficult, so please be patient with this slow heretic: me; I'm really finding it difficult to swallow your prose on God/Jesus, but, then again, I believe that Jesus is God.
theNewCovenantGroup 7 months ago
@joeforHistruth,
You're too hung up on the modern invention of "repent" and not yielding to the author's intent. For this reason and others, you are simply gaming the Text with your use of theological gloss: a poor synthetic.
theNewCovenantGroup 7 months ago
@joeforHistruth,
Since all people have been declared righteous, I have no reason to think that they are not "ok" with God, i.e., if Paul knew what he was talking about. FYI: I'm not saying that everyone is doing an ok job at living a wonderful life in Christ, but I am saying that God is in all, and that's quite the game changer in what I mean as Ok. Ok?
theNewCovenantGroup 7 months ago
@theNewCovenantGroup Really all people?? This is a lie. That's not the doctrine of the New Testament anywhere. Those who repent and believe. You said everyone is ok, dont worry. God is not in all, the scripture does not teach that.
The scripture is crystal clear on repentance and faith in Christ aka believing. Christ also used one becoming a disciple as a synonym for believing in Him. In the context of that verse where He was saying becoming a disciple and taking up your cross and finished....
joeforHistruth 7 months ago
@joeforHistruth,
i didn't think you could explain Lazarus not believing in Jesus, but I thought you might get a little bit more honest about what Jesus said. But then again, that would destroy your argument/theology.
theNewCovenantGroup 7 months ago
@joeforHistruth,
I would bet that lots of people are going to want to hear your take on this one: There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and IN ALL. (NIV Ephesians 4:4-6)
Maybe you can give me another lecture on why you have applied the term heretic to Rob Bell and me.
theNewCovenantGroup 7 months ago
@theNewCovenantGroup ....with losing your soul.
You are teaching heresy and not even close to what's in the bible. Your jesus wont save anyone because he doesn't exist, he is your idol!
joeforHistruth 7 months ago
@joeforHistruth,
Teaching Hell is Child Abuse. No good Father would create a torture chamber to burn His created children in, but unfortunately, those who wrote mythology and the metalanguage of theology didn't mind creating this theater of terror and abuse, for it was how they controlled the minds of others--you know the kind; the repent, or burn kind of stuff/theology that a rapist offers in the name of love. Serve Me, or I Will Burn You Theology isn't a love message, but one of sickness-!
theNewCovenantGroup 7 months ago
@theNewCovenantGroup Apparently you are into mythology with your false teaching about no hell.
If there ever was one lie the devil would want people to believe it would be that hell doesn't exist.
You should repent and turn to Christ, the one who spoke more of hell than anyone else in scripture.
Professing to be wise they became fools.
joeforHistruth 7 months ago
@joeHstruth,
FYI: Jesus never talked about hell in any sense, but unfortunately, you seem to think that He did. So, if you are going to advocate the English It Series, you have not understood Christ. Over the next 20 years scores of works , including translations, will surface that have no hell. The only works that will have "hell" in them will be the ones that have no fluency model of translation. So, you can keep spinning your fantasy (hell) while the rest of us enjoy an honest Read.
theNewCovenantGroup 7 months ago
@theNewCovenantGroup Good work, exactly what Satan would want people to think. Whos team are you on??
Honest you??? I'm not seeing that from you or from Bell.
joeforHistruth 7 months ago
@joeforHistruth,
I love Jesus Christ, but I hate the deception of theology/mythology. So, maybe that gives you a clue as to the team that I'm on.
theNewCovenantGroup 7 months ago
@theNewCovenantGroup You said, "The only works that will have "hell" in them will be the ones that have no fluency model of translation. So, you can keep spinning your fantasy (hell) while the rest of us enjoy an honest Read." Gods word says, "Professing to be wise they became fools."
You do not want honesty, you don't want to accept what God says because the thought of hell is hard to imagine. But not because it's not in scripture, it clearly is. Repent!
joeforHistruth 7 months ago
@joeforHistruth,
Hell was the invention of/from those who wrote mythology, and it's stupid to make it into a reality, i.e., if the Greek and Hebrew mss of the Scripture are more than linguistically sound. But, if you would rather transport mythology into Scripture as a synthetic like some of the translators did who were obligated to follow the theology of their hire, then that is also stupid.
theNewCovenantGroup 7 months ago
@theNewCovenantGroup I'll stick with the words of Christ. You keep trying to sound smart but you cant explain away what the outcome is for unbelievers, in Greek or english. It's quite clear. I think you're on here trying to blow up your ego. You're beyong child abuse, you are false teaching. Repent.
joeforHistruth 7 months ago
I would STRONGLY encourage you to read and study the Bible for yourself. Then, compare that to what this man is "teaching". Peace.
edadan2009 8 months ago
@edadan2009,
Rob Bell is closer to being right, than being wrong, i.e., if Jesus is our peace.
theNewCovenantGroup 7 months ago
@theNewCovenantGroup
No, he is not anywhere near the truth. As I said before, read & study the Bible for yourself - then compare it to what this man is saying.
edadan2009 7 months ago
@edadan2009,
Bell isn't claiming to be without err, but he is doing a wonderful job rethinking his positions on theology. So, I applaud his honesty and love the man. For he is a good man trying to clean up a big mess: the metalanguage of theology/mythology.
theNewCovenantGroup 7 months ago
@theNewCovenantGroup
Good men don't pervert the truth. If this man knew God, he would know the truth. He is a false teacher leading many away from God and eternal life with Him. How awful for all who choose to believe Bell's easy message. They will find for themselves that hell is a real place. "...let God be true but every man a liar..." (Rom 3:4)
edadan2009 7 months ago
@edadan2009,
Romans 3:4 is about God's faithfulness. Paul writes about how faithful He is to the unbeliever: Rom 3:3 What then? If some did not believe, will their unbelief cancel God's faithfulness? 4 ABSOLUTELY NOT! God must be true, but everyone is a liar, as it is written: That You may be justified in Your words and triumph when You judge. The Greek is even more emphatic about His faithfulness than this English It Read. So, you might want to rethink. May God bless.
theNewCovenantGroup 7 months ago
@theNewCovenantGroup
Romans 3:4 is true in any context. God's Word is ALWAYS true. Why don't you believe what God says? If you believe what Rob Bell believes, then you don't believe the Bible. Why?
edadan2009 7 months ago
@edadan2009,
Once again, you are failing Romans 3:4 by negating its context, but, then again, it might be your intention. Does God remain faithful to the unbeliever? If you say no, then entire your argument is working against the Text....
theNewCovenantGroup 7 months ago
@edadan2009,
Rob Bell isn't perverting the truth; he's living a wonderful life in Christ, and for some reason, you can't see how righteous he is.
theNewCovenantGroup 7 months ago
@theNewCovenantGroup
Righteousness comes through faith in Jesus Christ. How can you be righteous when you don't believe what Jesus said?
edadan2009 7 months ago
@edadan2009,
Whether I trust what Jesus said, or not, has nothing to do with how/why He made me righteous.
theNewCovenantGroup 7 months ago
@theNewCovenantGroup
"But people are counted as righteous, not because of their work, but because of their faith in God who forgives sinners. " (Romans 4:5)
"...I no longer count on my own righteousness through obeying the law; rather, I become righteous through faith in Christ. For God’s way of making us right with himself depends on faith." (Phil 3:9)
This is what the bible says about being made righteous. Do you believe there is another way?
edadan2009 7 months ago
@edadan2009,
I don't think that you are rendering the English in a manner that is consistent with the Greek. Paul's usage of "faith" in Romans 4 isn't what Abraham does, but rather what he receives. In this context, "faith" is a gift, not an act of the mind. You might want to consider Paul's usage: ἀλλ' ἐνεδυναμώθη τῇ πίστει: but was empowered by faith. So, your point of "this is what the bible says about being made righteous" is simply a faux pas of the synthetic nature of hyperbolic theology.
theNewCovenantGroup 7 months ago
@theNewCovenantGroup
I didn't render it - hundreds of Greek/Hebrew scholars did. Are you saying that ALL of them are wrong? There are many translations of the bible - translated by many different people. They all say the same thing. Why don't you believe? Answer: Because the evil that is hidden in your heart prevents you from believing God. As a result, you have fashioned a god for yourself that agrees with your own wicked desires. Repent, believe and be saved.
edadan2009 7 months ago
@edadan2009,
You're rendering an English translation as if it fits the model of clarity, and that has never been the intention of any translator to date. One would have to be a fool to say that the transport of Greek into English does not suffer loss. English hates the middle and passive voice, and yet, that's what you are dealing with (arguing against) in Paul's prose So, if think that keeping the English away from the Greek intent is wise, you have failed the author's intent.
theNewCovenantGroup 7 months ago
@theNewCovenantGroup
I didn't realize just how wicked "theNewCovenantGroup" is until I watched a few of your videos. You are NOT from God. My hope and prayer is that ANYONE reading these comments will not be deceived by you, Rob Bell, etc. The Bible IS God's Word. It has been accurately and faithfully translated into many languages and understanding it comes through the Holy Spirit.
edadan2009 7 months ago
@edadan2009,
If Paul is right, nothing can separate any of us from the love of God. So, it would be quite useless to entertain a doctrine that says, "God rejectors will be eternally separated from God, or put in some kind of metaphorical hell forever". But, then again, that would not satisfy someone who thinks God ordered infanticide and took His Spirit away from one who didn't carry out His Killing Spree Theology.
theNewCovenantGroup 7 months ago
@theNewCovenantGroup
The foul odor of your "teaching" is like a putrid stench that hangs in the air. And yet, it will smell sweet to those who are accustomed to wallowing in the mud.
edadan2009 7 months ago
@theNewCovenantGroup Paul was writing to whom? Believers, it's for believers. Nothing can seprate true believers from God's love. Unbelievers are under His judgment, see John 3:18.
joeforHistruth 7 months ago
@joeforHistruth,
You said, "Nothing can seprate true believers from God's love". Do you tell your children that your love for them will not depart from them as long as they are a "true believer" in you? Does a loving Father tell His created children when they do wrong, "You must get out, die, and burn forever, or trust the shed blood of my Son: the One who died so that I, God, can get rid of my anger, wrath, and resentment towards you".
theNewCovenantGroup 7 months ago
@theNewCovenantGroup So compating our relationship to our children is the same as people with God?? No. God is not Father to unbelievers, get that straight. Unbelievers are children of wrath as it says in Ephesians, until they repent and trust in Christ. Absolutley nowhere does scripture teach we all get in, nor does it teach that the work of Christ is for everyone, it's only for those who repent, who are theses? Gods elect, God chooses. No one comes to Christ unless the Father draw them.
joeforHistruth 7 months ago
@joeforHistruth,
The distant cry of the many is never heard, never cared upon, when the evangelist's pitch is "Atonement blessings are only to the ones who hear"; what prejudice does is to their shame.
theNewCovenantGroup 7 months ago
@joeforHistruth,
God didn't set up a prerequisite for mercy to be applied to sin, for Paul argues: As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies on your account; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, for God's gifts and his call are irrevocable. Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience...
theNewCovenantGroup 7 months ago
@joeforHistruth,
...so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now receive mercy as a result of God's mercy to you. For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all. (Rom 11:28-32 NIV) So, if Paul argued for the all, why don't you?
Ἡ χάρις μεθ' σου
ἔρρωσο
theNewCovenantGroup 7 months ago
@joeforHistruth,
I'm rephrasing for your benefit; I hope this helps: If Paul used a punctiliar styled syntax (one that leaves no room for subsequent action) to illustrate when He ”quickened us together with Christ”, and if he emphasized it as to the timing of our new life, then “it is by grace you have been saved” of verse 5 would have to be referent to this one-time event, i.e., if Paul’s writing is linguistically sound, thus leaving no room for a modern day “faith prerequisite” to get saved.
theNewCovenantGroup 7 months ago
@joeforHistruth,
The Greek, διὰ τῆς πίστεως (Eph 2:8 BYZ) διὰ πίστεως (Eph 2:8 BNT) with its variants, certainly doesn’t support a modern-faith prerequisite for salvation as religious folk suggest, but does support a faith that came when Christ came. Note the Greek article and the preposition in the first variant of Read; they are not genitive-feminine for a case of accidental antecedent confusion, and they are not serving faith as the modern tries to render it.
theNewCovenantGroup 7 months ago
@theNewCovenantGroup More lies sir. Stop it! Repent of your heresy and deceit.
Repent or perish as Christ said. If you dont you're under Gods wrath and judgment. All are not saved. Gods elect will be saved as the scripture teaches.
joeforHistruth 7 months ago
@joeforHistruth,
Your argument isn't literate, but it is mean and against Paul's writings. So, please answer the questions that I posed to you from Ephesians 2:5 and its context, i.e, if you can be kind enough to do so to/for this heretic and one under God's wrath.
theNewCovenantGroup 7 months ago
@theNewCovenantGroup Not literate, because you can't read?? Read it for yourself. I don't know Greek. I can read what scholars say about it. You are in error. You may think you have some err of sophistications because you put some greek on the screen. I'm not impressed. Before Christ we are childrfen of wrath. Scripture explains scripture, go to John and read John 3:18, 36. It's quite clear. Universalism is heresy.
joeforHistruth 7 months ago
@theNewCovenantGroup How does Ephesians start? Eph 1:4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world....then v5 says predestined, then in v11. Then in Romans 8:29,30, then in 1 Cor 2:7.
There are many more throughout the bible. Those God predestined/chose,elected are the only ones who will be saved. This is not universal election. Romans Ch 9
joeforHistruth 7 months ago
@joeforHistruth,
Let's examine Ephesians 2:5 for what it says, not for what the Universalist's want to make it say, but for what it actually says. Are you willing to do this? And FYI: I'm not a supporter of Universalism for various reasons, for its hermeneutic is as poor as the Protestant hermeneutic.... Universalism, Judaism, Catholicism, Protestantism, and the rest of their likes are far removed from ethical and rational practices of an honest Read.
theNewCovenantGroup 7 months ago
@joeforHistruth,
A little dialog about this verse, Ephesians 2:5, in context would be a nice piece for this YT video and its audience.
It's quite sad that too many are bashing Rob Bell without knowing the context of his work/heart. So, let's give this verse and others a chance with context and have some beneficial dialog.
theNewCovenantGroup 7 months ago
@theNewCovenantGroup Before the foundation oif the world He predestined us....your heresy has so many holes. Your jesus cant save anyone, because its an idol.
>Unless you repent you will all likewise perish Luke 13:5
>He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. John 3:18
joeforHistruth 7 months ago
@theNewCovenantGroup >He who beleves in the Son has eternal life, but he who does not obey the Son of God will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him. John 3:36.
>...by nature the children of wrath. Ephesians 2:3
>to open their eyes so that they mat turrn from darkness to light and from the dominion of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who have been sanctified by faith in Me. Acts 26:18.................
joeforHistruth 7 months ago
@joeforHistruth,
For some reason you overlooked my earlier comment and avoided Paul's point: If Paul argued that "[God] made us alive with Christ", i.e., made us alive spiritually with Christ 2000 years ago, and it judicially met the prerequisites for "it is by grace you have been saved" in Eph. 2:5, and he did, and if Paul utilized this verse to define verse 8, and he did, then how could any person meet the conditions for which Paul argued, but Christ 2000 years ago?
theNewCovenantGroup 7 months ago
@joeforHistruth,
Why are you avoiding Paul's premise in Ephesians: If Paul's usage of the aorist-singular verb συνεζωοποίησεν works in a time-sensitive concert with τῷ Χριστῷ, then how could any person meet the conditions for which Paul argued, but Christ 2000 years ago?
theNewCovenantGroup 7 months ago
@joeforHistruth,
I would hate to think that you could not grasp what Paul said here: If Paul's usage of συνεζωοποίησεν τῷ Χριστῷ indicates an event of time-sensitivity as to when God actually made us alive with Christ, then why would anyone argue that one is dead in transgressions after that point in time? The point is: your argument is against the Grammar, context, and language sense of Paul's writings. You're failing to see that your argument is against Paul, and that's sad-!
theNewCovenantGroup 7 months ago
@joeforHistruth,
John 3:16 has become the modern-whipping post for those who don't believe. Children get Scripture whipped with this passage every day, and yet, evangelicals are proud. It’s become the Heaven or Hell Tactic of our Day. So, what ever happened to context? And who will protect my grandchildren?
theNewCovenantGroup 7 months ago
@theNewCovenantGroup It's clear from scripture, lost people are children of wrath and in the dominion of Satan, they are not children of God until they repent and trust in Christ. Acts 26:18 proves this, which is what the rest of scripture says. God chooses/elects.
>For He says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy. Rom 9:15-16
joeforHistruth 7 months ago
@theNewCovenantGroup This is for you. "Who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, why did you make me like this?" Romans 9:20
joeforHistruth 7 months ago
@joeforHistruth,
Hell is just too stupid for a sane person to argue for, but unfortunately, some are praying, "Lord Come Quickly for the games to begin".
theNewCovenantGroup 7 months ago
@joeforHistruth,
Sometimes people get fixed in belief and they fail the challenges of real honesty and real truth; it's like getting parked in the Dark Ages and liking it.... It's sad when I hear those who argue from the canons of Judaism, Catholicism, and Protestantism; they take a closed-minded approach to a lie and call it truth.
theNewCovenantGroup 7 months ago
@edadan2009,
FYI: Translations are simply models of translation theory and models of synthetic-theological gloss, and there are scores of them. All translations do not have the same text base, nor do they agree on deponent complexities etc. So, you might need to rethink your spin on translation models; they are much variegated and their source mss have almost 400,000 textual variants to date.
theNewCovenantGroup 7 months ago
@edadan2009,
Since, extant English translations are translation models, and these models represent a synthetic-language transport rather than a model of language-fluency transport, then one must exercise much caution. These extant translations are similar to an English-only student sitting in a room with a Greek Text and inventing his own "Greek" pronunciation, Grammar, and semantic domain fields. And I'm really understating the problems with this example.
theNewCovenantGroup 7 months ago
@edadan2009,
When unicorns, satyrs, and hell are embedded and accepted as inerrant truth, i.e., within the framework of the mind concerning the Bible, it’s time to "Rethink" our reasons for accepting this duplicitous harangue as truth. Why people do accept these not-so-minor-duplicities and abdicate the impervious evidence of what is found in ancient mss alone is more than just a little deceptive.
theNewCovenantGroup 7 months ago
@theNewCovenantGroup You said, "When unicorns, satyrs, and hell are embedded and accepted as inerrant truth"
So those gnashing of teeth verses are wrong?? He was just joking, you know how Jesus is, a kidder hahahaha.
Sir you are a liar and deceiver. You should rethink your salvation.
joeforHistruth 7 months ago
@joeforHistruth,
Why do you think that translating mythological terms into the Scripture is good? For some strange reason, you keep trying to justify the use of mythological gloss in the English It Series of Scripture; it's not honest, but it's Protestantism's best. So, please do your spin with "satyr", and tell the common why he should trust "satyr" as an accurate representation of what God said, and why so-called Bible translators use the gloss of mythology so much to support Church doctrine.
theNewCovenantGroup 7 months ago
@theNewCovenantGroup There is a good video on youtube about unicorns, you should watch it. They are rhinos.
joeforHistruth 7 months ago
@edadan2009,
It's unfortunate that you would advocate the ill methods and practices of those who have fabricated the doctrines of hell and tortured the minds and lives of little children with its err. When an individual argues that burning and torturing people forever is just, we know that they are but the product and the parrot of a theology gone mad. For no one in right mind will argue that we should take hell beyond mythology and into reality.
theNewCovenantGroup 7 months ago
@edadan2009,
If Paul argued that "[God] made us alive with Christ", i.e., made us alive spiritually with Christ 2000 years ago, and it judicially met the prerequisites for "it is by grace you have been saved" in Eph. 2:5, and he did, and if Paul utilized this verse to define verse 8, and he did, then how could any person meet the conditions for which Paul argued, but Christ 2000 years ago?
theNewCovenantGroup 7 months ago
@edadan2009,
If Paul's usage of the aorist-singular verb συνεζωοποίησεν works in a time-sensitive concert with τῷ Χριστῷ, then how could any person meet the conditions for which Paul argued, but Christ 2000 years ago? Let me rephrase the question: If Paul's usage of συνεζωοποίησεν τῷ Χριστῷ indicates an event of time-sensitivity as to when God actually made us alive with Christ, then why would anyone argue that one is dead in transgressions after that point in time?
theNewCovenantGroup 7 months ago
@edadan2009,
When we relegate God to bypass His Word, play the role of a puppet, and start justifying people on prompt, permission, trust, and a cookie, we have joined the circus.
It should be refreshing (for all) to see that Rob Bell isnt boxed in Baptist garb et al., i.e., if an honest Read has any value! So, let's give Rob Bell what he deserves: our patience, kindness, and support. For a good Father doesn't want His children to feel as if they don't deserve His love and support.
theNewCovenantGroup 7 months ago
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" In every difficulty, all distress, and each perplexity Christ calls to you and gently says, "My brother, choose again"."
jimmietfreeway 9 months ago
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" In every difficulty, all distress, and each perplexity Christ calls to you and gently says, "My brother, choose again"."
jimmietfreeway 9 months ago
Nothing but New age!!!!!!be careful!!!!NEVER be a vulnerable believer....NEVER!!!!!!!
Den12tribe 9 months ago
Actually anything that detracts from the light is darkness so if Rob Bell is teaching another (false) doctrine then to call attention to it is illuminating the freaking dark for Christ sake (literally!). That is the point in all the hubbub about Rob Bell he is preaching another (false) doctrine and Paul himself said if anyone did that they should be accursed.
Michelle41294 9 months ago
BRING BACK KOOLAIDS AND TON BUNDLE
Niika6666 9 months ago
Rob Bell is a fallen member of the devil's minions. He does NOT believe the Bible is the inspired Word of God. He is leading his followers to the road to perdition and not to God. Pray for him, he is a sinner not a man of God.
TanteWaileka 10 months ago
@TanteWaileka,
The content isn't the same in all versions or Text bases. Many problems do exist in translations and source documents; there are almost 400,000 textual variants in the NT mss alone, and this is the least of our problems. Christians need to face the many facts of textual errs, canonical errs, translation errs, and the list is so much greater than what Christians are willing to face up to. It would be more than disingenuous to take extant English versions and spin Soteriology.
theNewCovenantGroup 10 months ago
@TanteWaileka,
Do you also support this bit of Judaism: your canon: Suppose a man comes across a virgin who is not engaged and overpowers and rapes her and they are discovered. The man who has raped her must pay her father fifty shekels of silver and she must become his wife because he has violated her; he may never divorce her as long as he lives. (Deu 22:28-29 NET)
theNewCovenantGroup 10 months ago
@TanteWaileka,
Do you also support this bit of Judaism: When the Israelites were in the wilderness they found a man gathering wood on the Sabbath day. Those who found him gathering wood brought him to Moses and Aaron and to the whole community. They put him in custody, because there was no clear instruction about what should be done to him. Then the LORD said to Moses, "The man must surely be put to death; the whole community must stone him with stones outside the camp." continued...
theNewCovenantGroup 10 months ago
@TanteWaileka,
...So the whole community took him outside the camp and stoned him to death, just as the LORD commanded Moses. (Numbers 15:32-36)
theNewCovenantGroup 10 months ago
@TanteWaileka,
My point is simple: if you honestly do the Read, you won't buy into what has been offered to the common as the so called canon of Judaism, or Christianity. Your just too smart to think that the so-called canons are without flaw, and your heart is just too good and filled with too much love to think that doing these horrible things might be good.
theNewCovenantGroup 10 months ago
@TanteWaileka,
Rob Bell is a good man, i.e., if we see Him as God does. He hasn't fallen, but he has become a bit more honest with the Read.
theNewCovenantGroup 10 months ago
@TanteWaileka why is it you guys never mention where he says any of this stuff?
gtrfurby 10 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
I disagree with some of what he believes theologically but I support his bringing people to the church.
isaaccpa 10 months ago
I disagree with some of what he believes theologically but I support his bringing people to the church.
isaaccpa 10 months ago
Rob Bell is a heretic. He denies the existence of eternal hell, even though the Bible clearly teaches eternal punishment for the unrepentant(Matthew 25:41). God is love, but He is also holy and just. God doesn't owe salvation to anyone because all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. God graciously offers salvation to all who will repent and put their faith in Jesus. Those who reject Jesus will be eternally separated from God in Hell.
James5877 10 months ago
@James5877, Why would you spin Matt 25 as you do?
theNewCovenantGroup 10 months ago
@theNewCovenantGroup I'm not spinning Matt 25. It is about the final judgement, when Jesus will separate the believers from the unbelievers, and to the unbelievers, He will say "Depart from Me, into the eternal fire..." (Matthew 25:41). Hell is not a pleasant thought, but God's word clearly teaches eternal punishment for the unrepentant. We cannot deny God's word because His word is truth.
James5877 10 months ago
@James5877,
When passages are target-sensitive and time-sensitve...one needs to practice a little caution before rendering tropes, nuances, idioms and the likes, i.e., if an understanding of context is desired more than an err in language flux. Too many times the modern makes the mistake of using English gloss to avoid the manner in which Jesus and Matthew utilized syntagmatic elements to/for the benefit of the intended target. So, please do the Read again; the modern isn't intended.
theNewCovenantGroup 10 months ago
Poopy
MandolinforJesus 10 months ago
Churches are shrinking because people don't like the truth of the Bible, they want their own reality to become truth and unfortunately that will lead you straight to hell.
lisamreed1 10 months ago
Light is Light HAHAHAHAHA there is a angel of light and there is THE LIGHT whom do you serve
demonsmasher2 10 months ago
@tickaboo100
We know where the type of "truth" that you are talking about will lead....away from the God of the bible. Truth isn't relative it's absolute and it's found in the Bible. Rob Bell isn't searching for truth; he is out to make a God in his own likeness. That's idol worship.
TreasureChrist 11 months ago
Just got home and there was nothing to eat in the house. Thought about nipping down to Waitrose, but that would mean cooking when I got home. Thought about going for a pizza instead. Went for a pizza. Feel a bit flat after the pizza. Just check online, and Sainsburys at Ladbroke Grove is open until midnight! So going to go there for a reasonable size shop. About the only thing I REALLY need is some milk, but I may as well get some other things while I'm there...
JonathanMoir 11 months ago 2
lol I don't think Rob Bell cares about being a good man. Whatever that means or looks like, he just cares about Truth. I don't have all the answers and neither does Rob. But, he wrestles with life and his heart is after truth and the mystery of God. No one has it right, and no one will ever get it right. But do your best to be an honest person, to be a righteous person. Don't defend your belief, but be open to the truth wherever that takes you.
tickaboo100 1 year ago
The college class that I just finished up we used Rob Bell's book Velvet Elvis & at 1st I thought this sucks BUT I was required to read more & it got better while his book was pretty good I liked the video's he has made that Prof. Best showed us almost every week (I'm taking a program-Where we have our bachellor's degree in 18 months & so we get a new Prof. every 5 weeks)- those were AWESOME & alot of my classmates said their churches had used them on Sunday nights during their services!
kardzfn21 1 year ago
@kardzfn21 that is disheartening that these are being used for sunday services, honestly. this is not how worship and fellowship is supposed to be, scripturally-speaking. im a college student as well, but the lense through which Bell interprets the bible is very skewed and vague. he eisegetes instead of exegetes. he dances the line on issues that are considered unorthodox to classical christian faith. he does not teach the full gospel. it's impartial at best or (lets hope not) heretical at worst
lpilgrm 1 year ago
If some of you would actually read your Bible, if you have one, you would realize that true Christians are told to point out and name the names of false teachers and those preaching a 'different Jesus.' The masses of people that attend these 'churches' are getting what they want, a god made in their own image and not the true God. Rob Bell is a 'wolf in sheeps clothing' and a false teacher.
summa1129 1 year ago
@summa1129 why is he a false teacher? i didn't see that in your msg -- so wondering, thanks,
matthewkooshad 1 year ago
@matthewkooshad Simple, a false teacher is someone that teaches a 'different' Gospel as Paul put it. These emergents are trying to redefine Christianity but what they are doing is going farther away from the true Gospel. Rob Bell adds his own theology and strays from the truth to suit his own desires. There is abundant information on rob bells heretical teachings. Compare him to the Gospel and it won't take long to realize he is not in Christ's Church.
summa1129 1 year ago
@summa1129 i feel like his words should be listened to After knowing the gospel and presented by someone who knows the gospel to guide the the conversation. i agree with others in the way that he is helping people think about what Jesus calls us to do. i think people should indeed know gospel before listening to rob. i think it's scary ground someone treads to say he's not in God's church or our brother. take care; God says we'll be judged in the same way we judge others -- same measure of mercy
matthewkooshad 1 year ago
@matthewkooshad Any Christian is called to point out those preaching a false gospel or even an altered gospel. Compare bell's teachings to the Bible and you have a severely altered gospel. Compare his use of scriptur in his book 'velvet elvis' and you find a molested use of scripture. We will be judged in how we treat others indeed, but we will also be judged in adhering to the true Gospel and not allowing the Gospel to be distorted.
summa1129 1 year ago
I wonder how many people don't understand the gospel and aren't going to heaven because of the false teaching of this heretic man.
udgirl2010 1 year ago
Stop hatin Rob Bell rocks
korg440 1 year ago