The Carbon Tax

[robhoneycutt]

I was going to write more but this video is too stupid to even respond to.

[robhoneycutt]

Okay, #1... "The planet has been warming for 18,000 years."

That is completely inaccurate. The planet has actually been cooling for the past 6000 years by about 1-2C.  In the past 150 years we have warmed the planet again by about 1C through the production of greenhouse gases.

[TheJordandelphonic]

wow, how did you go back in time 50 million years ago? Did you know that 65 years ago, the world was only 4 million years old. 65 years = 46 million years to modern scientists. That totally makes sense right?

[brobobh]

Very well done video, lot the global warming folks will not get it! I do know Born Free and Taxed to death!!!

[joygarner]

It was warmer during the MWP than it is now. PLUS, Jones himself has admitted that it's not getting warmer anyway.

[judomagyar]

Dr Miskolczi showed that the solution to a differential equation for the greenhouse effect developed in 1922 by Arthur Milne, wrongly assumed an infinitely thick atmosphere. In re-solving this equation a new term and also a new law of physics have been proposed setting an upper limit to the greenhouse effect. Dr Miskolczis theory indicates that any warming from elevated atmospheric carbon dioxide will eventually be offset by a change in atmospheric moisture content

[JuanVoyce]

For those that don't know:

- John Tyndall (1850s) and his discovery of the greenhouse effect. He concluded that certain constituent (e.g CO2 and water vapor) gas species present in the atmosphere were warming the surface of the planet.

- Stefan-Boltzmann Law

- Svante Arrhenius (1890s) theorized that increasing concentrations of atmospheric

CO2 would raise the temperature of the planet.

- Charles David Keeling (1950s) and his observations of CO2 concentrations taken

from Mauna Loa.

[JuanVoyce]

The global average temperature is 13.8 C according to Hansen, Ruedy, Sato, and Lo. Where do you get 12 C?

[GimmeSomeTruth1971]

"Pay the tax. Get used to it." Bow down to Al Gore and get used to having a Global Government dictatorship. Don't question authority. Don't ask why the temperature is also rising on Mars. Don't ask how Greenland was farmable in Viking days, now it is frozen. The debate is over.

[AnotherAlexChannel]

AL WHORE

[americhica]

Jenniferatemple you must be a christian or a mormon to have thought up that screen name. You are obviously in support of a carbon tax, eh? I can see it now, you drive a volvo you are a student or a are a newly wed you drink expensive coffee and believe you are enlightened. If you don't drink coffee you buy expensive bread and enjoy tofue. Also your planned social events are FN stupid. Go plan your vaccation to some remote 3rd world counrty so you can imagine yourself to be a saint. Hippy fag.

[yammyspeed13]

I would like to declare June 27 as burn a tire day!

[opchidexio]

Excellent idea!  Let me get my matches. (The trees and the ocean plankton LOVE CO2 and will be very happy to have more : )

[ubuibiok]

***** Hokus Pokus , How to do magic tricks...

[jenniferatemple]

Yup, its true! The earth has been through may cycles but we have put the process on amphitamines and seeding along so high and fast we will all be dead in about a yenth of the time we would have had. It has already started to punish us by the time our children are our age.... Well, Heaven help them, it will be to late for them to help themselves!!!

[opchidexio]

Question. Can anyone produce any evidence that the average global temperature has increased over the last ten years?

I know that the THIN "sea ice" on the north pole SEEMS TO BE retreating (as it has for many thousands of years.)

The alarmists point to CO2. No offense but I say "ho hum." NO scientist can point to a molecule of CO2 and HONESTLY say that this molecule was not exhaled from the ocean rather than from the tail pipe of an AMERICAN motorist. There are no "fingerprints."

[jenniferatemple]

No, not for conspiracy theorists. My experience is real evidence is always rejected by people who have a pet conspiracy theory. If you are thirty or younger, the consolation is you will see it for yourself and though it will be too late, you will be wiser for it. Oil will be out of reach in about ten years, what ever carbon emmessions do. We really do not have any choice, its do something or die.

[kurtleics]

oil will not be out of reach in 10 years?? where do you get your info from?

there is plenty of oil left, you want proof? Russia and indonesia have recently just open two new oil 'rigs/projects'

Theres still an abundance, now im not saying we HAVE to use it all, we should have been off fossil fules a long tiem ago, but how will the oil companys make money if we move off their prescious resorce?? hummmmmmm??

[kurtleics]

sorry i gave you a thumbs up for your point, however i meant it to be a thumbs down, i do not aggree.

PLEASE DO YOU OWN PERSONAL RESEARCH INTO IT ALL AND SEE FOR YOURSELF ITS A BIG SCAM!!!

[opchidexio]

You meant to give jennifer a thumbs down? Allow me. It's a pleasure. Happy to help out, pal. : )

[opchidexio]

Damn. I just couldn't do it. I'm a puss. So I gave YOU a thumbs up. How's that?

(I am trying to be a peace maker... )

[kurtleics]

hey thanks man. we shuould do this, this is a good place for dicsussion, but when people are saying oil is going to run out in 10 years?? im perplexed??

i would love to know where they hear that when new oil feilds are being found all the time haha!

also i AM NOT on the oil companys side, there part of this huge scam, also rank in the New world order.

its about time people started to youe their own initiave and reasoning to work things out, and do their own research.....dotn you aggree? lol

[opchidexio]

That works for me cuz research is my thing. But MOST PEOPLE have to trust someone to tell them the truth. I wish them the very best of luck.

Me, I'll get the raw data and draw my own conclusions (as best I can.)

"Big oil" lays out a HUGE, HUGE, HUGE investment in order to try to squeeze a few pennies out of you at the pump. I wish them well also. More power to them, is what I say. I got no problem with big business. It's just not for me; I don't even own a suit! : P

[JonathanZeidman]

lastly, even as we argue, farmer in eastern canada, and presumably in the northeastern states, are suffering through a year that is seeing crops rotting in the fields because of unusual rainfall patterns. I guess not just me, but all the other farmers, need to get as smart as you, and plant better watermelons, because clearly it isn't unpredictable, unusual weather that is to blame.

[opchidexio]

Suggestion. Talk to some OLD farmers whose fathers were farmers, okay? I think they'll tell you that unusual weather is not that unusual.

You do seem sincere. That's all I could hope for, friend.

I have an unusual perspective; I am not "smart." You see, I had a "ah-hah" moment that allowed me to GRASP what was happening. That's all.

[JonathanZeidman]

Yes, there has always been unusual weather. Apparently, there are patterns to it. The point is, unusual weather does disrupt agriculture. It does reduce yields, or wipe out crops altogether. It is rarely beneficial unusual weather. Farmers and gardeners both need weather they can predict, to plan their plantings and harvests, their rotations. As long as you can understand and agree that unusual weather leads to reduced yields, more often than not, we're getting somewhere.

[opchidexio]

Yes, of course. Unusual weather is a pain in the ass for farmers. And in the past whole civilizations have been disrupted by climate changes.

BUT... Please keep in mind that THIS DEBATE is about ANTHROPGENIC (man caused) climate change. In other words, MY NISSAN TRUCK did not ruin your weather! China, the worlds biggest emitter of CO2 didn't either.

Climate change is an eternal TRUEISM. Anthropogenic climate change IS NOT.

99.99% of all CO2 is "natural" and CO2 is a "trace gas."

[JonathanZeidman]

Well, this is where our paths seperate, it seems, irrevocably. I take comfort in that my position is supported by all the major governments, including even the government of G.W. Bush, by 95% of the world's scientific experts, and by all the scientific institutions of repute. You can claim the brotherhood of a fringe minority of experts, some percentage of whom are paid to counterindicate AGW, no credible scientific institutions, and the vast majority of conspiracy theorists.

[opchidexio]

I take comfort in the truth. "Brotherhood"? I am part of no "brotherhood" except for that which is created by the spiritual bond that binds me to all true scientists since the dawn of Man.

AGW is merely the latest socialist attack on the capitalist West. But you knew that already, didn't you, "farmer"?

[JonathanZeidman]

opchidexio, when you suggest the trend in CO2 is downward, you put yourself at odds with climate science which is unequivocal in that CO2 concentration in the atmosphere has increased since the inception of the Industrial Revolution. I believe I read today, in fact that predictions are that we will double the atmospheric concentration of CO2 from what it was pre-industrial revolution.

[opchidexio]

Not so. There is NO correlation between human activity and CO2 levels. Really! The CO2 is "exhaled" by the oceans. I'm serious. As for the chart of CO2 levels, they FOLLOW the temp chart (lagging slightly behind).

[JonathanZeidman]

I understand you're serious, and I appreciate that our discussion is now more civil. I suggest you research further, and understand that 95% (yes, there's been a study) of experts on climate now support AGW, or man-made global warming. I'm not making this up. Ask a climatologist. Better yet, ask more than a few, so you can see the spread of opinion. There are a small handful of deniers out there, backed with enough money to give them a disproportionately loud voice in the media. Again, 95%.

[opchidexio]

MOST of these "scientists" you speak of are neither scientists nor are they climatologists. SOME of the scientists you speak of have had their HONEST conclusions DELIBERATELY DISTORTED by liars inside the United Nations. The chief perpetrator of this FRAUD is Maurice Strong (Canadian socialist con artist) who is now hiding in Communist China to avoid prosecution in food-for-oil scandal (Iraq).

[JonathanZeidman]

Like I said ... conspiracy theorists. You suggest thousands of scientists are behind some grand conspiracy, but the few that hold the position you want to believe in are the only ones with legitimate opinions. You believe the UN is trying to what, steal your money, but you don't understand the efforts of Big Oil to confuse the issue of global warming. To that kind of irrational nonsense, I have nothing further to say.

[opchidexio]

Does anyone else notice that this guy never refuted a SINGLE point I raised? He goes away saying I am a conspiracy theorist (personal smear) and am influenced by big oil (another smear).

Here's the truth. Years ago I read a few pages in a book entitled "The Weather."

THIS BOOK explained that the Earth is experiencing a brief INTERGLACIAL period (retreating ice caps) that began approx 15,000years ago. Think about it.

[JonathanZeidman]

More pseudo-science from someone who is NOT well-informed, but doesn't see why he can't spout off. Yes' you're right, as the planet warms, the oceans release more CO2, which one of a number of positive feedback mechanisms scientists are worried that we are going to accelerate, and we will have run away global warming. I don't know what you're smoking when you suggest that the planet can support a 22C average temperature, but let ME inform YOU that North American agriculture, CANNOT. Like to eat?

[opchidexio]

Are you a gardener? Do you like botany? Not all, but MOST plants would actually grow FASTER, LARGER and more lush -- IF ONLY we could get past this damned ice age. You DO know, don't you, that we are in a brief "interglacial"? IF we ever get beyond it, this planet will turn into a "carboniferous" jungle.

But you are right. I am (thankfully) not well informed.

[JonathanZeidman]

No, but I own a farm. And I am aware that farmers require predicatable weather to plant and harvest. I know that all plants have fairly limited conditions under which they flourish. While there will be some exceptions, most plants like to grow under certain conditions and will be outcompeted if not simply unable to fruit under the wrong conditions. Domesticated plants tend to have narrower ranges of tolerable temperature and humidity. Your suggestion MOST plants would thrive is baseless.

[JonathanZeidman]

Furthermore, while, since the conditions you propose haven't existed in recorded history, it remains possible for us to argue till the cows come home about what will thrive, what ISN'T questionable is that the distribution of agriculture, and for that matter water, will shift unpredictably. Are you really ignorant enough to suggest that won't cost millions of lives?

[opchidexio]

The Earth got along fine without Man's "recording of time."

A DROP in temp and CO2 would stress human agriculture FAR MORE than the slight warming such as we have enjoyed over the past 15 thousand years! IN FACT, this recent WARM PERIOD made human civilization POSSIBLE!

[opchidexio]

Are you not arguing that a SLIGHT increase in average global temperatures (and the resulting rise in CO2 levels) would be BAD for agriculture? Pal, YOUR suggestion is baseless. The opposite is true. You may "own" a farm but you do not have a "green thumb."

[JonathanZeidman]

You obviously aren't listening. For one thing, you argued that a rise up to as much as 22C, or a rise OF 10C, is tolerable. Scientists are warning that a rise of 2-3C will be enough to cause havoc. So for all YOUR supposed expertise, perhaps the PhDs who have spent collective EONS studying weather might have a clue. Secondly, I don't CARE what a drop in CO2 might do, according to YOUR marvelous wisdom, because that isn't relevant to our shared reality.

[opchidexio]

The overall long-term trend in CO2 is DOWNWARD. We need to find a way to drive it back up. Plants (those green things?) MUST HAVE CO2 TO LIVE! No CO2, no plants, no FOOD! Yes, by your standards, my "wisdom" IS "marvelous" -- or so it would seem.

[JonathanZeidman]

And, even though we aren't talking about a "slight" increase in global warming, if we were, we wouldn't be having this discussion, but yes, I DO suggest a slight increase in global temperature can be a serious disruptor in the food supply. It doesn't take huge climate change to cause little teensy-weensy phenomena like droughts, or flooding. Besides your whole argument hinges on a hidden assumption, that our food supply can easily adjust to change. Globally, no, it cannot. It is already stressed

[opchidexio]

"STRESSED"??? All life is "stressed" and yet it is (most of it) still here. Dude, if your corn or your watermelons can't take a one degree variation in global temperature, you need to find some heartier crops. This is the real world.

[JonathanZeidman]

And in your second comment you completely misinterpret what 1C (which isn't what we're talking about, climate scientists would be relieved if that was all we were talking about) of global warming means. It doesn't mean a particular locality is 1C warmer on average. It means weather patterns change. Wind patterns change, and rainfall patterns change. Depending on the latitude, some locations are already showing temperatures that are around 5C warmer on average (Northern Canada for example).

[opchidexio]

I truly doubt that ANY place on this planet has persistently warmed 5 degrees over the past several hundred years. I DO acknowledge that polar ice floes are melting but -- JESUS CHRIST!! -- they have been melting for 15,000 years.

[JonathanZeidman]

Lastly, I can only suppose you are deliberately missing the point that when we are talking about global food supply, we aren't talking about my watermelons, we are talking about the ability of people, often in impoverished parts of the world with little or no resources to address changes in agricultural needs, and their abilities to feed themselves. We are also talking about possible effects on ocean ecosystems and fisheries, and access to potable water.

[8585747]

The "Carbon Tax" in BC .....the stupidest idea ever....War and Bombing other countries causes more distruction. Experiementing with chemicals in our food, air and water causes long term devastation. How about the effect the ice breaker ships in the Artic and Antartic have, would that not make the ice melt faster? Blasting rockets into space for exploration creat heat & pollution how about elimiating that? So why does the government condon and promote these kinds of behavior?

[Scynite]

British Columbia:

The carbon tax will start on July 1, 2008 at a rate based on C$10 per tonne of carbon emissions and rise C$5 a year to C$30 per tonne by 2012. It works out to an extra 2.4 cents on a liter of gasoline, rising to 7.24 cents per liter of gasoline by 2012. The carbon tax on diesel and home heating oil will start at 2.7 cents per liter and increase to 8.2 cents per liter over the same five-year period.

[spellbinder00]

MONOXIDE is the problem, but it does'nt fit into the U.N. Tax on Breathing and population control. Therefore MONOXIDE is not the problem. MONOXIDE would point to Big Business as the cause and Not The People!

[spellbinder00]

MONOXIDE is the problem, but it does'nt fit into the U.N. Tax on Breathing and population control. Therefore MONOXIDE is not the problem. MONOXIDE would point to Big Business as the Cause and Not The People! Big Busness is behind the global warming scam. They are always trying to find ways to tax us to control our Standered of Living. :(