7-1 ratio ?? hahaha, I love America propaganda and the worst thing is that stupid Americans believe all this shit, They also believed that they got to the moon before anyone else, do you guys know that it was not the moon??? it was the desert around Area 51 idiots, yeah, you are also winning the war in Afganistan haha.
Never mind that the actual casualty reports do reflect that American pilots (in general) fared far better then their North-Korean counterparts and that casualty ratios were in fact lopsided.
Funny Nikolai Sutyagin was the highest scoring ace from US and "Korean" side during Korean War...with his Mig-15 he brought down plenty of F-86 . Including F-86 ace Glenn Eagleston.....and Yevgeni Papelyavev was called "Sabre Hunter" for a reason.
Lev Schukin also shot down best US pilot from WWII Francis Gabresky (F-86).
There is much about this war that is still classified but what seems evident is that in the hands of Soviet veterans Mig kill ratios went up. In the hands of Chinese (not Soviets just flying with Chinese markings) their kill ratio was not so good. North Korean pilots were.... much less successful (diplomacy!). Unofficially the overall ratio was probably 2:1 in favour of UN forces but against Soviet pilots it might have been a more even fight but it will no doubt be debated for a long time.
Soviet pilots had 3 to 1 win to lose ratio and the reason americans talk big is that they shot down large numbers of inexperienced chinese and koreans. of course soviet pilots also were diffirent: for example, dedicated frontline fighter squadrons performed much better then PVO squadrons.
@Ma3gau That could be true, but you can't win a war with a handful of top Soviet aces. For example, if 20 Soviets shoot down 60 UN aircraft, that could be impressive, but you can't win a war with 20 Soviet pilots.
The mig 15 combat weight was around 4.5 tons while sabre was 5.5-6.5 tons and they both posessed an engine of similar power: around 2.2-2.4 force tons.
Comparison of f86 and mig in this matter is like comparing a sluggish van to an optimized sports car: mig had higher acceleration, higher rate of climb, higher service ceiling and it could just dive on its prey from the iaccessible height with impunity and such tactics were used by soviet pilots to a success. Mig also had much better arms.
the kill ratio of the usa is cuz they shot large numbers of untrained corean and chinese pilots, they had a basic training to attack bombers, to start and to land, while the ratio of real russian mig pilots, that took part in the famous dogfights was far superrior to the usa!
As always, Americans are full of shit, as is this show which is nothing but an american propaganda. In reality Americans were shitty pilots in WWII and Germans kicked their asses, while Brits were the real problem for the Luftwaffe. Spitfire was the best plane of the WWII, not P-51 Mustang. Best scoring pilots of the WWII were Germans. In Vietnam, Americans got their asses kicked (which is why they lost war at the end), in Korea same thing. However, Americans like to write history of their own.
when the Soviet honchos arrived in Korea the kill ratio flipped over in favor of the soviets... The highest ace of Korea was Nickolay Vasilievich Sutyagin (Soviet) 21 CONFIRMED KILLS... The honchos left early before the war's end and so the Korean rookies were left to fight the war although some Soviets stayed but there weren't enough of them to make a difference... And so the kill ratios came in favor of the americans after the honchos left...
better trained pilots? lol such BS. every side is always going to exagerate there victories but i never knew the Americans where so full of it. most of the MIGS where flown by shitty korean pilots yes, but there where also russian pilots flying and MOST of them survived. which tells me that if it was just russian pilots vs US pilots then, it would have been a bad war for the yanks.
Its airframe was also lighter built so it was very hard to handle at higher speeds and in dives, and it was known to have its taiul section rip off during sharp turns at high speeds, the F-86 never ha dthis problem.
The 6x .50 cal heavy machine guns on the sabre were enough to match the mig when you consider the sabre had radar guided computing gunsites and a stronger airframe which made it a better gunnery plateform and resulted in higher degrees of accuracy.
@AK49Gunner I agreed with you that sabre electronic equipments were more advanced than MIG15.Even the soviets pilots admitted it after examining an intact downed sabre
The 7:1 claims were before the veterans USSR veterans entered the theatre.The chinese and korean pilots were ill trained and had no dog fighting experiences.Despite having better jet fighter they were too green to faced US WW2 veteran pilots
Quote: "one more rebuff to your childish attitude. the jet engine was a GIFT from Britain,..."
Good god you are an imbecile, learn basic reading comprehension. I never denied that it was a gift from the UK to the Soviets, what I said was that the Russians couldn't make a good jet engine of their own and they had to COPY, not steal, a british design. And even then they had a hard time even copying it.
I am not the one failing here. If you wish to ignore me and call me brainwashed because YOU can't stop chugging the Russian kool-aid long enough to actually debate, fine. I asked you to simply support some of your outragous claims and you FAILED to do so.
I know that German scientist were brougth to America (and Russia) And the F-86's wing was inspired by the Me-262. But you stated: " the German Scientists who designed the Fokker TA-183 were all captured and brought to AMERICA to help them design the F-86"
Which is a patent falsehood. I asked you to back it up, and YOU COULD NOT.
Where did you get the one Mig to TWO Sabres number from?
The best numbers I have read give the ratio of Russian piloted Mig's to American piloted Sabres as 1:1.
Also when considering the overal kill ratio of the Russian fighter pilots, the UN had control of the air and had thousands of low and slow flying attack aircraft in the air; A target rich enviroment for veteran fighter pilots flying the latest aircraft.
@RedPower012 before you name me a fool watch yourself and learn. The british supplied the very first Russian jetfighters after ww2 with jet-engines. They allowed Stalin to manufacture Brititsh jet-engines under licens!
@RedPower012 the Russians nor the Americans took their design from the British
They took their design from the German "TA-183 Modell 3" The only thing what the british did in some stupid action was giving the Licens for manufacturing jet turbines after war to Stalin.
@ozeangruen Uh I have absolutely no idea where you get your historical information. The first American jet to fly was the P-95 and its engine was a copy of the British Power Jets W.1. It first flew in 1942. The British and Germans both pioneered the Jet, the Germans were simply the first to apply it in combat. The jet engine was independently developed by 3 nations between the years of 1939 and 1941. Just because Germany had the first airborne model does not mean the rest copied.
@RedPower012 the Heinkel He 176 and Heinkel He 178 became the first aircraft to fly under liquid-fuel rocket and turbojet power respectively, and Heinkel was the first to develop a jet fighter the HE-280
@RedPower012 A layout and adjustable stabilizer. Manufacturing was not begun until after World War II as a result. The XP-86 prototype, which would become the F-86 Sabre, first flew on October 1947 from Muroc Dry Lake, California.
@RedPower012 The P-86 Sabre was the first American aircraft to take advantage of flight research data seized from the German aerodynamicists at the end of the war. Requirements were met by incorporating a 35 degree swept-back wing with automatic slats into the design, using the Me 262 wing profile,
@RedPower012 The P-59 Airacomet was the first American jet fighter to be put into service but it was widely seen as an inferior design and never saw combat. The piston-engined P-51 Mustang could reach higher top speeds and had a much greater range
@RedPower012 the Britons supplied Stalin with Jetengines ! The Heinkel HeS 011 or Heinkel-Hirth 109-011 was an advanced WWII jet engine built by Heinkel-Hirth.
One of these that was taken to the United States and integrated into the Bell X-5.
The Americans where not supplied by the British with jet-engines...They had enough German scientists
@RedPower012 the British Labour government and its pro-Soviet Minister of Trade, Sir Stafford Cripps, were perfectly willing to provide technical information and a license to manufacture the Rolls-Royce Nene. This engine was reverse-engineered and produced as the Klimov RD-45, subsequently incorporated into the MiG-15] Rolls-Royce later attempted to claim £207 million in license fees, without success.
@RedPower012 and it was defently not the British ! The Heinkel He 178 was the world's first aircraft to fly under turbojet power, and the first practical jet plane, the pioneering example of this type of aircraft. by by arshole
About the Mig-15 being "better", The Mig had a higher ceiling, higher rate of climb, and larger guns. That is it.
The F-86 airframe was much, much, stronger, and the control surfaces were hydraulically boosted, so the Sabre performed much better in a dive, being able to able to do maneuvers that would freez the controls of, or even rip the tail off of, a Mig.
The F-86 Also had a radar ranging computing gunsite, which makes up for any advantage the Mig had in armament.
@AK49Gunner The America jet engine also originated from the British you retard in fact they also took advantage of a large volume of German research captured after WWII. Both sides over exaggerated their kills, Americans also often claimed to have shot down more migs then were in the air. Its a historical fact that the MiG was a better aircraft. Like I said, all you have to do is look at the numbers, there were multiple engagements when the Russians were outnumbered 2:1 and were victorious.
The first engines in the YP-80 prototype were British, yes, but the engines in the F-86 Sabre were American designed, retard. Americans may have . at times, claimed to have shot more migs than were in the air, but the Russians to this day claim to have down more F-86's than were ever sent to Korea.
The outnumbered 2-1 and still victorious comment needs a source frankly, because you have proven yourself wrong time and again.
I bet if you look into it, these mythical 2 vs 1 battles were early war battles between Mig-15's and WWII fighters like the P-80, Gloster Meteor, or Prop driven fighters, if these battles happened at all.
Like I said, the best the Russian piloted Mig-15's did against the F-86 was a 1-1 kill ratio.
@AK49Gunner Ill throw some numbers at you, early to mid 1951 there were about 80 MiGs in service on the front compared to the American 700 combat aircraft figure. By 1953 Russia had about 250 MiGs in service, USA had about 300 F86s and 300 F84s. Durring this time the Russian managed to deny the enemy air superiority in the mig alley. I will give a direct example, May 12th 1951 36 migs vs just over 50 F84/86 escorting almost 50 B-29s. 1 MiG was lost, 3 American fighters were shot down.
Quote: "I will give a direct example, May 12th 1951 36 migs vs just over 50 F84/86 escorting almost 50 B-29s. 1 MiG was lost, 3 American fighters were shot down."
That is ONE example, during the entire war? You will have to do better.
@AK49Gunner Yea the good old 800 migs to 80 Sabers. There are many things wrong with these numbers, only 370 MiGs were downed during the entire Korean campaign. And 220 Sabers. Look it up anywhere. Any modern and updated source will give you these numbers. These numbers also don't take into account the large volume of downed F-84 fighters. I don't understand what you want a link? Just type Korean war into Google and you will get dozens of links.
@khamnouan The Soviets did seize plans and prototypes for the Ta-183, but the majority of Focke-Wulf engineers were captured by Western armies; therefore, it could be argued that the MiG-15 design team drew all limited inspiration from the Ta-183
Bullshit!, the F86 was too fat and too slow and compete with the small and fast MIG 15. US goverment lie to you by saying that ratio of 1:7 of one F86 to MIG 15..
If that so true why don't US took control the entire Korean pininsula
F-86 had a better engine type that became the standard for all subsequent modern jets. MIG-15 had a better climb rate & 20mm cannon while the early F-86s only had .50cal. MGs, but later F-86s had 20mm cannon. F-86 was a better dogfighter, more manueverable than the MIG-15, but the MIG-15 was a great plane.
Even the older P-80 Shooting Star did OK, & 14 P-80s were lost to MIG-15s but the P-80s shot down 17 MIGs.
At the start of the war the Russians were fielding their WW2 veterans, and they were the most deadly things in the sky. As they rotated in foreign and untried pilots the allies were adapting and creating new tactics so things shifted.
The 7:1 ratio was probably true when factoring in the kills against Chinese and North Korean pilots. Against the clandestine Russian pilots, who were also WWII veterans, the ratio was a more likely 1:1, according to the reported kills from each band - the Russians ALSO said they had a 7:1 (or 10 to 1) kill ratio, which was preposterous.
Considering the strengths of the MiG-15 compared to the F-86, it is clear that a clash of experts would have meant mutual annihilation.
@ftorresgamez At the start of the war, when most of the pilots on the north Korean side were Russians the ratio was as high as 5:1 for the Soviets in some battles. The migs would enter combat outnumbered anywhere from 2 to one all the way to 7 to one and come out on the winning side. Later on when the soviet pilots left the skies the ratio was turned around.There is a reason why the two top aces of the Korean was were Russian. April 12th 1951 check it out 36 migs vs 100 American aircraft.
That's an interesting ratio. Not that I dispute it (Soviet pilots fought much harder battles against the Germans than the Americans, which gave them more experience, and the MiG15 was indeed a superior aircraft to the F86 in some respects), but could you point to the source of your information?
@RedPower012 Those numbers are bogus. The Russians used different standards for confirming aerial victories then the American did. They claim to have shot down more even F-86's than were ever sent to Korea. The F-86 was the superior plane, much better handling, and better targeting system.
The face you see is Capt. Ralph Parr, who become a double ace, coming in about the last 8 weeks of the Korean War. He was assigned to the335th FIS, the Chiefs, at Kimpo K-14. I worked in the Engineering Office and saw him often I thought he looked like cowboy star Johnny Mack Brown..
@Windyhead Yes.Too exagerate.The Russsians wont continue producing it if the they were outgunned by US pilots.Actually MIG15 with experience Russian pilots were more than a match to US fighters..
And how many of those 3000 aircraft were F-86's? Shit, how many of them were lost to enemy ground fire? If you really look at the numbers you see that the American F-86 had ~ 1-1 kill ratio vs Russian piloted Mig 15's, the 7-1 ratio includes Chinese and North Korean piloted Mig-15's, and the Russian numbers include all kinds of aircraft from F-86's and P-80's, to Piston engined fighters and heavy transport and bomber aircraft.
Interesting to see, that the british vere unable to design an aircraft that match the MiG-15 with the same engine.
And don't forget that americans were well known durig WW2 to exagerate their victory, the RAF used to divide their claims by 2 or 3 to have a real idea of german losses.
Totally agree, they rather design very ho-hum airframes in the Gloster Meteor and the De Havilland Vampire, both incapable of touching the MiG 15. The MiG 15 (and also the F86, it has to be said) were amazing pieces of aeronautical engineering, but the MiG 15 more so considering jsut how fast they were able to reverse-engineer the Rolls Royce Nene engine. Truly remarkable - and to consider, if these guys had been capitalists, they would have RULED THE WORLD.
@anfer7 I agreed with you.I believe US claim of more 1000 perished are too far fetched.Half of it maybe.If the MIG 15 were that vulnerable the Soviets had stop it poductions immediately.What we heard from the commentators were that the MIG 15s were better fighters
What a dumbass! The Russian Mig-3 was pieces of trash can't even get a lot of kills. The P-51 Mustang and Spitfire kick ass while you Russian pilots were drunk and stupid drinking too much VODKA.
classical american lies (as everything else) kill ratio between f-86 and mig-15 was not 6:1.Maybe on begining when korean pilots flyis mig-15, but latter when Soviet pilots flyies on mig-15 on every shoted down mig there are almost two f-86
Exist a tale that Mr. Mikoian (M of MIG) bring cheaps of rotor alloy on shoes from England ( Rolls Royce) to Russia. After this Rusk made your own turbine based on RR Nene.
Nice vid, but you can just skip what they say, its all wrong. Both in MiG outperforming F-86 in all maneuvers (in fact F-86 turnd tighter than the MiG-15) and 7-to-1 kill ratio (yea yea, the battle-trained veteran soviet pilots were less prepared than the american novices which were thrown at the fight8) ).
US veterans of WW2 are not quite like soviet veterans of WW2 =) The first were rotated pretty lot and pretty quick, while the latter just had nowere to rotate to... You guess who became more experienced. Speaking bluntly, most of american pilots were novice-level compared to veteran USSSR pilots. With approximately equal aircraft, 7/1 is a nonsence. The only way that it _could_ make its way into some docs is claimed victories. Saber hit MiG, the latter escapes and lands safely, victory claimed.
the kill ration was against the north korean pilots, my grand grand father, was one of the pilots in north korea, ukrainian in the soviet air force, they were patrolling the north of north korea, the important production facilities, he himself shot down 2 american pilots, and the soviets only lost one pilot which ejected and later shot himself so he wouldn't get captured.
7-1 ratio ?? hahaha, I love America propaganda and the worst thing is that stupid Americans believe all this shit, They also believed that they got to the moon before anyone else, do you guys know that it was not the moon??? it was the desert around Area 51 idiots, yeah, you are also winning the war in Afganistan haha.
jeanqbxx 3 weeks ago
Oh jesus christ
Internet logic:
"Americans = LULZ PROPUGANDAHHHH!"
Never mind that the actual casualty reports do reflect that American pilots (in general) fared far better then their North-Korean counterparts and that casualty ratios were in fact lopsided.
uninterestingentity 1 month ago
Are those graphics from Mig Alley the pc game?
BVargas78 4 months ago in playlist Aircraft
Funny Nikolai Sutyagin was the highest scoring ace from US and "Korean" side during Korean War...with his Mig-15 he brought down plenty of F-86 . Including F-86 ace Glenn Eagleston.....and Yevgeni Papelyavev was called "Sabre Hunter" for a reason.
Lev Schukin also shot down best US pilot from WWII Francis Gabresky (F-86).
ViciousCritique 6 months ago
There is much about this war that is still classified but what seems evident is that in the hands of Soviet veterans Mig kill ratios went up. In the hands of Chinese (not Soviets just flying with Chinese markings) their kill ratio was not so good. North Korean pilots were.... much less successful (diplomacy!). Unofficially the overall ratio was probably 2:1 in favour of UN forces but against Soviet pilots it might have been a more even fight but it will no doubt be debated for a long time.
FrancoHitlini 6 months ago
Soviet pilots had 3 to 1 win to lose ratio and the reason americans talk big is that they shot down large numbers of inexperienced chinese and koreans. of course soviet pilots also were diffirent: for example, dedicated frontline fighter squadrons performed much better then PVO squadrons.
Ma3gau 7 months ago
@Ma3gau That could be true, but you can't win a war with a handful of top Soviet aces. For example, if 20 Soviets shoot down 60 UN aircraft, that could be impressive, but you can't win a war with 20 Soviet pilots.
dobravery 6 months ago
The mig 15 combat weight was around 4.5 tons while sabre was 5.5-6.5 tons and they both posessed an engine of similar power: around 2.2-2.4 force tons.
Comparison of f86 and mig in this matter is like comparing a sluggish van to an optimized sports car: mig had higher acceleration, higher rate of climb, higher service ceiling and it could just dive on its prey from the iaccessible height with impunity and such tactics were used by soviet pilots to a success. Mig also had much better arms.
Ma3gau 7 months ago
Soviet pilots vs.yanki.1 Mig-15-3 f-86
shuljup 9 months ago
the kill ratio of the usa is cuz they shot large numbers of untrained corean and chinese pilots, they had a basic training to attack bombers, to start and to land, while the ratio of real russian mig pilots, that took part in the famous dogfights was far superrior to the usa!
eugenmichailow 10 months ago
As always, Americans are full of shit, as is this show which is nothing but an american propaganda. In reality Americans were shitty pilots in WWII and Germans kicked their asses, while Brits were the real problem for the Luftwaffe. Spitfire was the best plane of the WWII, not P-51 Mustang. Best scoring pilots of the WWII were Germans. In Vietnam, Americans got their asses kicked (which is why they lost war at the end), in Korea same thing. However, Americans like to write history of their own.
l3stat3 11 months ago 10
@l3stat3 You sound mad and bias.
1ohtaf1 1 week ago
when the Soviet honchos arrived in Korea the kill ratio flipped over in favor of the soviets... The highest ace of Korea was Nickolay Vasilievich Sutyagin (Soviet) 21 CONFIRMED KILLS... The honchos left early before the war's end and so the Korean rookies were left to fight the war although some Soviets stayed but there weren't enough of them to make a difference... And so the kill ratios came in favor of the americans after the honchos left...
mig21lover 11 months ago
better trained pilots? lol such BS. every side is always going to exagerate there victories but i never knew the Americans where so full of it. most of the MIGS where flown by shitty korean pilots yes, but there where also russian pilots flying and MOST of them survived. which tells me that if it was just russian pilots vs US pilots then, it would have been a bad war for the yanks.
KitchenSpeclol 1 year ago 8
Seems a somewhat contradictory narration
tomview1 1 year ago
MIG could turn tighter,heavier guns and could climb faster .The characteristic show it is better fighter
ali4330 1 year ago
@ali4330
Its airframe was also lighter built so it was very hard to handle at higher speeds and in dives, and it was known to have its taiul section rip off during sharp turns at high speeds, the F-86 never ha dthis problem.
The 6x .50 cal heavy machine guns on the sabre were enough to match the mig when you consider the sabre had radar guided computing gunsites and a stronger airframe which made it a better gunnery plateform and resulted in higher degrees of accuracy.
AK49Gunner 1 year ago
@AK49Gunner I agreed with you that sabre electronic equipments were more advanced than MIG15.Even the soviets pilots admitted it after examining an intact downed sabre
ali4330 1 year ago
The 7:1 claims were before the veterans USSR veterans entered the theatre.The chinese and korean pilots were ill trained and had no dog fighting experiences.Despite having better jet fighter they were too green to faced US WW2 veteran pilots
ali4330 1 year ago
@sovietkotek
Quote: "one more rebuff to your childish attitude. the jet engine was a GIFT from Britain,..."
Good god you are an imbecile, learn basic reading comprehension. I never denied that it was a gift from the UK to the Soviets, what I said was that the Russians couldn't make a good jet engine of their own and they had to COPY, not steal, a british design. And even then they had a hard time even copying it.
AK49Gunner 1 year ago
@sovietkotek
I am not the one failing here. If you wish to ignore me and call me brainwashed because YOU can't stop chugging the Russian kool-aid long enough to actually debate, fine. I asked you to simply support some of your outragous claims and you FAILED to do so.
AK49Gunner 1 year ago
@sovietkotek
Listen fuckwit.
I know that German scientist were brougth to America (and Russia) And the F-86's wing was inspired by the Me-262. But you stated: " the German Scientists who designed the Fokker TA-183 were all captured and brought to AMERICA to help them design the F-86"
Which is a patent falsehood. I asked you to back it up, and YOU COULD NOT.
AK49Gunner 1 year ago
@sovietkotek
Where did you get the one Mig to TWO Sabres number from?
The best numbers I have read give the ratio of Russian piloted Mig's to American piloted Sabres as 1:1.
Also when considering the overal kill ratio of the Russian fighter pilots, the UN had control of the air and had thousands of low and slow flying attack aircraft in the air; A target rich enviroment for veteran fighter pilots flying the latest aircraft.
AK49Gunner 1 year ago
@sovietkotek
Really? Which German scientist exactly? Give full names and their contribution to the F-86's development.
Russia on the other hand was INCAPABLE of even making a jet engine, so they copied a British one.
AK49Gunner 1 year ago
LOL! 1300 UN aircraft including WWII era piston driven fighters. lol
The UN had air superiority from when the Sabre first entered the theatre, until the end of hostilities.
AK49Gunner 1 year ago
The MiG 15 did NOT suffer a Ratio of 7-1 Losses to the F 86-
That is Propaganda-
The MiG 15 gave the Sabres a lot of problems
poitrenaud 1 year ago
@zippinen Thhe Russian developed nothing oh the Mig-15 by themself!
The MIG-15 is a copie of the Fokker TA-183. Maybe they developed it further but even at the end of WW2 they had no Jett-Planes.
ozeangruen 1 year ago
@ozeangruen America also had no jet planes. Both Russia and USA took their design from Britain. Go fucking learn some history fool.
RedPower012 1 year ago
@RedPower012 before you name me a fool watch yourself and learn. The british supplied the very first Russian jetfighters after ww2 with jet-engines. They allowed Stalin to manufacture Brititsh jet-engines under licens!
ozeangruen 1 year ago
@RedPower012 the Russians nor the Americans took their design from the British
They took their design from the German "TA-183 Modell 3" The only thing what the british did in some stupid action was giving the Licens for manufacturing jet turbines after war to Stalin.
ozeangruen 1 year ago
@ozeangruen Uh I have absolutely no idea where you get your historical information. The first American jet to fly was the P-95 and its engine was a copy of the British Power Jets W.1. It first flew in 1942. The British and Germans both pioneered the Jet, the Germans were simply the first to apply it in combat. The jet engine was independently developed by 3 nations between the years of 1939 and 1941. Just because Germany had the first airborne model does not mean the rest copied.
RedPower012 1 year ago
@RedPower012 the Heinkel He 176 and Heinkel He 178 became the first aircraft to fly under liquid-fuel rocket and turbojet power respectively, and Heinkel was the first to develop a jet fighter the HE-280
ozeangruen 1 year ago
@RedPower012 A layout and adjustable stabilizer. Manufacturing was not begun until after World War II as a result. The XP-86 prototype, which would become the F-86 Sabre, first flew on October 1947 from Muroc Dry Lake, California.
ozeangruen 1 year ago
@RedPower012 The P-86 Sabre was the first American aircraft to take advantage of flight research data seized from the German aerodynamicists at the end of the war. Requirements were met by incorporating a 35 degree swept-back wing with automatic slats into the design, using the Me 262 wing profile,
ozeangruen 1 year ago
@RedPower012 The P-59 Airacomet was the first American jet fighter to be put into service but it was widely seen as an inferior design and never saw combat. The piston-engined P-51 Mustang could reach higher top speeds and had a much greater range
ozeangruen 1 year ago
@ozeangruen It doesn't matter my point stands, the first American and Russian jets were based on Brit technology.
RedPower012 1 year ago
@RedPower012 the Britons supplied Stalin with Jetengines ! The Heinkel HeS 011 or Heinkel-Hirth 109-011 was an advanced WWII jet engine built by Heinkel-Hirth.
One of these that was taken to the United States and integrated into the Bell X-5.
The Americans where not supplied by the British with jet-engines...They had enough German scientists
ozeangruen 1 year ago
@ozeangruen Its like your retarded. Go read my comments again.
RedPower012 1 year ago
@RedPower012 your a dipshit! you claim American jets where based on British technologie. This is like saying Rolls Royce is a british company!
ozeangruen 1 year ago
@ozeangruen Rolls Royce is a British company.
Saxe333 1 year ago
@RedPower012 you fucking commy
ozeangruen 1 year ago
@RedPower012 the British Labour government and its pro-Soviet Minister of Trade, Sir Stafford Cripps, were perfectly willing to provide technical information and a license to manufacture the Rolls-Royce Nene. This engine was reverse-engineered and produced as the Klimov RD-45, subsequently incorporated into the MiG-15] Rolls-Royce later attempted to claim £207 million in license fees, without success.
ozeangruen 1 year ago
@RedPower012 and it was defently not the British ! The Heinkel He 178 was the world's first aircraft to fly under turbojet power, and the first practical jet plane, the pioneering example of this type of aircraft. by by arshole
ozeangruen 1 year ago
About the Mig-15 being "better", The Mig had a higher ceiling, higher rate of climb, and larger guns. That is it.
The F-86 airframe was much, much, stronger, and the control surfaces were hydraulically boosted, so the Sabre performed much better in a dive, being able to able to do maneuvers that would freez the controls of, or even rip the tail off of, a Mig.
The F-86 Also had a radar ranging computing gunsite, which makes up for any advantage the Mig had in armament.
AK49Gunner 1 year ago
@AK49Gunner
So what wew are left with is a Mig with a higher service ceiling, but not able to exploit it because it cannot dive without stalling or crashing.
Slightly better Turn radious at low altitude, but not able to exploit it because the airfram cannot handle it.
Better guns, without computing gun sites to make hitting a fast moving jet easy.
Like I said, they were both pretty evenly matched, if one is better than the other, it is by a sliver.
AK49Gunner 1 year ago
Also, the Mig-15 used a British engine because the Russians couldn't build one of their own.
AK49Gunner 1 year ago
@AK49Gunner The America jet engine also originated from the British you retard in fact they also took advantage of a large volume of German research captured after WWII. Both sides over exaggerated their kills, Americans also often claimed to have shot down more migs then were in the air. Its a historical fact that the MiG was a better aircraft. Like I said, all you have to do is look at the numbers, there were multiple engagements when the Russians were outnumbered 2:1 and were victorious.
RedPower012 1 year ago
@RedPower012
The first engines in the YP-80 prototype were British, yes, but the engines in the F-86 Sabre were American designed, retard. Americans may have . at times, claimed to have shot more migs than were in the air, but the Russians to this day claim to have down more F-86's than were ever sent to Korea.
The outnumbered 2-1 and still victorious comment needs a source frankly, because you have proven yourself wrong time and again.
AK49Gunner 1 year ago
@RedPower012
I bet if you look into it, these mythical 2 vs 1 battles were early war battles between Mig-15's and WWII fighters like the P-80, Gloster Meteor, or Prop driven fighters, if these battles happened at all.
Like I said, the best the Russian piloted Mig-15's did against the F-86 was a 1-1 kill ratio.
AK49Gunner 1 year ago
@AK49Gunner Ill throw some numbers at you, early to mid 1951 there were about 80 MiGs in service on the front compared to the American 700 combat aircraft figure. By 1953 Russia had about 250 MiGs in service, USA had about 300 F86s and 300 F84s. Durring this time the Russian managed to deny the enemy air superiority in the mig alley. I will give a direct example, May 12th 1951 36 migs vs just over 50 F84/86 escorting almost 50 B-29s. 1 MiG was lost, 3 American fighters were shot down.
RedPower012 1 year ago
@RedPower012
Quote: "I will give a direct example, May 12th 1951 36 migs vs just over 50 F84/86 escorting almost 50 B-29s. 1 MiG was lost, 3 American fighters were shot down."
That is ONE example, during the entire war? You will have to do better.
AK49Gunner 1 year ago
@AK49Gunner The ratio was almost 1:1 even after the Chinese and VK got mascaraed in the skies.
RedPower012 1 year ago
@RedPower012
Quote: "The ratio was almost 1:1 even after the Chinese and VK got mascaraed in the skies."
Source? Everything I have ever read states that, If you included the Chinese and North Korean pilots, the F-86 had nearly a 10 to 1 kill ratio.
AK49Gunner 1 year ago
@AK49Gunner Yea the good old 800 migs to 80 Sabers. There are many things wrong with these numbers, only 370 MiGs were downed during the entire Korean campaign. And 220 Sabers. Look it up anywhere. Any modern and updated source will give you these numbers. These numbers also don't take into account the large volume of downed F-84 fighters. I don't understand what you want a link? Just type Korean war into Google and you will get dozens of links.
RedPower012 1 year ago
MIG is a leftover Nazi design.
TheGrasslander 2 years ago 2
Soviet or the Russian are more advance than the west in term of the miltary technology.
khamnouan 2 years ago
@khamnouan The Soviets did seize plans and prototypes for the Ta-183, but the majority of Focke-Wulf engineers were captured by Western armies; therefore, it could be argued that the MiG-15 design team drew all limited inspiration from the Ta-183
ozeangruen 1 year ago
Bullshit!, the F86 was too fat and too slow and compete with the small and fast MIG 15. US goverment lie to you by saying that ratio of 1:7 of one F86 to MIG 15..
If that so true why don't US took control the entire Korean pininsula
khamnouan 2 years ago
F-86 had a better engine type that became the standard for all subsequent modern jets. MIG-15 had a better climb rate & 20mm cannon while the early F-86s only had .50cal. MGs, but later F-86s had 20mm cannon. F-86 was a better dogfighter, more manueverable than the MIG-15, but the MIG-15 was a great plane.
Even the older P-80 Shooting Star did OK, & 14 P-80s were lost to MIG-15s but the P-80s shot down 17 MIGs.
christof139 2 years ago
Comment removed
ruudjuh16 2 years ago
At the start of the war the Russians were fielding their WW2 veterans, and they were the most deadly things in the sky. As they rotated in foreign and untried pilots the allies were adapting and creating new tactics so things shifted.
korona3103 2 years ago
The 7:1 ratio was probably true when factoring in the kills against Chinese and North Korean pilots. Against the clandestine Russian pilots, who were also WWII veterans, the ratio was a more likely 1:1, according to the reported kills from each band - the Russians ALSO said they had a 7:1 (or 10 to 1) kill ratio, which was preposterous.
Considering the strengths of the MiG-15 compared to the F-86, it is clear that a clash of experts would have meant mutual annihilation.
ftorresgamez 2 years ago 2
@ftorresgamez At the start of the war, when most of the pilots on the north Korean side were Russians the ratio was as high as 5:1 for the Soviets in some battles. The migs would enter combat outnumbered anywhere from 2 to one all the way to 7 to one and come out on the winning side. Later on when the soviet pilots left the skies the ratio was turned around.There is a reason why the two top aces of the Korean was were Russian. April 12th 1951 check it out 36 migs vs 100 American aircraft.
RedPower012 1 year ago
@RedPower012,
That's an interesting ratio. Not that I dispute it (Soviet pilots fought much harder battles against the Germans than the Americans, which gave them more experience, and the MiG15 was indeed a superior aircraft to the F86 in some respects), but could you point to the source of your information?
ftorresgamez 1 year ago
@RedPower012 Those numbers are bogus. The Russians used different standards for confirming aerial victories then the American did. They claim to have shot down more even F-86's than were ever sent to Korea. The F-86 was the superior plane, much better handling, and better targeting system.
AK49Gunner 1 year ago
its actually 10:1 ratio !!! ownt
liscano13 2 years ago
@liscano13 actually ration was 1:4
wowa99 2 years ago
The face you see is Capt. Ralph Parr, who become a double ace, coming in about the last 8 weeks of the Korean War. He was assigned to the335th FIS, the Chiefs, at Kimpo K-14. I worked in the Engineering Office and saw him often I thought he looked like cowboy star Johnny Mack Brown..
whitt702 2 years ago
That 7:1 claim is offensively inaccurate
Windyhead 2 years ago 18
@Windyhead Yes.Too exagerate.The Russsians wont continue producing it if the they were outgunned by US pilots.Actually MIG15 with experience Russian pilots were more than a match to US fighters..
ali4330 1 year ago 3
@Windyhead can you bring forth any evidence that the claim is wrong?
SufferingSarge 1 year ago
not the first time. Mustang was terrible with Allison engine. Only became a great aircraft when equiped with the Merlin
Windyhead 2 years ago
what a joke, 7:1 rate.
in reality, USAF lost 3000+ fixed wing aircraft and 1100+ air crew in korea. more than the china/russia side.
Xterraman 2 years ago 3
@Xterraman Currently, most sources acknowledge that the MiG-15 is an original design benefiting from German research.
ozeangruen 1 year ago
@Xterraman
And how many of those 3000 aircraft were F-86's? Shit, how many of them were lost to enemy ground fire? If you really look at the numbers you see that the American F-86 had ~ 1-1 kill ratio vs Russian piloted Mig 15's, the 7-1 ratio includes Chinese and North Korean piloted Mig-15's, and the Russian numbers include all kinds of aircraft from F-86's and P-80's, to Piston engined fighters and heavy transport and bomber aircraft.
AK49Gunner 1 year ago
@Xterraman the mig 15 and sabre f86 are both copies of the
german ta-183.
ozeangruen 1 year ago
Interesting to see, that the british vere unable to design an aircraft that match the MiG-15 with the same engine.
And don't forget that americans were well known durig WW2 to exagerate their victory, the RAF used to divide their claims by 2 or 3 to have a real idea of german losses.
anfer7 2 years ago 11
The DH Vampire was powered by the Nene and a fine craft. As was the Sea Hawk.
Windyhead 2 years ago
@anfer7,
Totally agree, they rather design very ho-hum airframes in the Gloster Meteor and the De Havilland Vampire, both incapable of touching the MiG 15. The MiG 15 (and also the F86, it has to be said) were amazing pieces of aeronautical engineering, but the MiG 15 more so considering jsut how fast they were able to reverse-engineer the Rolls Royce Nene engine. Truly remarkable - and to consider, if these guys had been capitalists, they would have RULED THE WORLD.
ftorresgamez 2 years ago
Typical British Pomp-
You are truly full of Crap-
The Americans won that war for us(France) and You, too-
The British must teach in school that Britain Defeated the Germans and the Japanese, and the "Yanks, just gave us a hand-" Right?
The British are the Inventors of Exaggerations-
poitrenaud 1 year ago
@anfer7 I agreed with you.I believe US claim of more 1000 perished are too far fetched.Half of it maybe.If the MIG 15 were that vulnerable the Soviets had stop it poductions immediately.What we heard from the commentators were that the MIG 15s were better fighters
ali4330 1 year ago
@anfer7
What a dumbass! The Russian Mig-3 was pieces of trash can't even get a lot of kills. The P-51 Mustang and Spitfire kick ass while you Russian pilots were drunk and stupid drinking too much VODKA.
USAAIRPOWER 11 months ago
@USAAIRPOWER and u eat too much burgers, and get to fat to fly well....google black tuesday!
eugenmichailow 10 months ago
@USAAIRPOWER Best Korean War ace is "stupid drunked" Russian......
I dont blame your ignorance you are only stupid fuck.
ViciousCritique 6 months ago
classical american lies (as everything else) kill ratio between f-86 and mig-15 was not 6:1.Maybe on begining when korean pilots flyis mig-15, but latter when Soviet pilots flyies on mig-15 on every shoted down mig there are almost two f-86
kotezanac 2 years ago
Acteuly Russians like British ppl
and i have talkd to allot of Brits who tought the same
British Smartnes + Russian Fisth = total win
qwe528 3 years ago
Exist a tale that Mr. Mikoian (M of MIG) bring cheaps of rotor alloy on shoes from England ( Rolls Royce) to Russia. After this Rusk made your own turbine based on RR Nene.
CLAUDIOPEIXOTO 2 years ago
Why? The MIG had a brit engine in it too...Thanks England!
OleYanks 3 years ago
Why is that so funny?
OleYanks 3 years ago
A Russian airframe and a British engine, an ideal combination.
ugizzat 3 years ago
Nice vid, but you can just skip what they say, its all wrong. Both in MiG outperforming F-86 in all maneuvers (in fact F-86 turnd tighter than the MiG-15) and 7-to-1 kill ratio (yea yea, the battle-trained veteran soviet pilots were less prepared than the american novices which were thrown at the fight8) ).
ShadeAKAhayate 3 years ago
american novices??
most of them were vets of WWII,not rooks
pen24 3 years ago 2
US veterans of WW2 are not quite like soviet veterans of WW2 =) The first were rotated pretty lot and pretty quick, while the latter just had nowere to rotate to... You guess who became more experienced. Speaking bluntly, most of american pilots were novice-level compared to veteran USSSR pilots. With approximately equal aircraft, 7/1 is a nonsence. The only way that it _could_ make its way into some docs is claimed victories. Saber hit MiG, the latter escapes and lands safely, victory claimed.
ShadeAKAhayate 3 years ago
the kill ration was against the north korean pilots, my grand grand father, was one of the pilots in north korea, ukrainian in the soviet air force, they were patrolling the north of north korea, the important production facilities, he himself shot down 2 american pilots, and the soviets only lost one pilot which ejected and later shot himself so he wouldn't get captured.
WhiteRa19 3 years ago