27 I leave YOU peace, I give YOU my peace. I do not give it to YOU the way that the world gives it. Do not let YOUR hearts be troubled nor let them shrink for fear. 28 YOU heard that I said to YOU, I am going away and I am coming [back] to YOU. If YOU loved me, YOU would rejoice that I am going my way to the Father, because the Father is greater than I am.
The Scriptures state: “Christ Jesus, who, although he was existing in God’s form, gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God. No, but he emptied himself and took a slave’s form and came to be in the likeness of men. More than that, when he found himself in fashion as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient as far as death.” (Phil. 2:5-8) At all times, Jesus humbly submitted to his Father’s will
. He said: “I seek, not my own will, but the will of him that sent me.” (John 5:30) “I always do the things pleasing to [my Father],” he declared. (John 8:29) Toward the end of his life on earth, Jesus said in prayer to his Father: “I have glorified you on the earth, having finished the work you have given me to do.” (John 17:4) Evidently, Jesus had no problem with recognizing and accepting God’s headship over him.
To understand the Trinity you have to start with the fact that there is and always will be one God. God is not like us. He has always existed as a Father, Son, Spirit relationship. God relates to Himself while remaining one God. The Son became human, the Father punished Him for the sin of those who will trust in Him. The Spirit applies this salvation to the believer. 1 God, but 3 distinctions within God. Christians do not believe in 3 Gods, but a God that is more complex than His creation.
1 {commandment} EX.20 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God,. Matt. 2:2,11 - the magi who came to see the newborn Jesus came to worship Him.
Matt. 8:2 - a leper came to Jesus and worshiped Him without rebuke.
Luke 24:52 - as Jesus ascended into heaven, the apostles worshiped Him.
John 9:38 - the blind man who was cured by Jesus worshiped.
@classiq876 The problem you have is that you have a modern understanding of what worship is. What you lack is a biblical understanding of what worship is. In the bible kings were worshiped and moses was worshiped and husbands were worshiped by their wives. Anyone of higher authority can be worshiped by those of lesser authority. How ever only hvhY recieves our prayers. No where in the bible does it say to pray to jesus it always says to pray to hvhY. Hope this answers your question.
@sixthheretic Nothing have change man, read the first commandment, worship is different from honour, they honour their husband,king,etc but they worship their God. read rev 22: 9, NOW read rev 4 : 8 - 11 now tell me what wrong here. Dont the angel is of higher athourity than john? so why the angel say no dont do that? i have more tell me if you want them, go read, revelation chap 4 and see the real jesus that die for us not the earthly body but the person who was in that body
Ok let me explain it this way. Anyone that speaks for hvhY can be worshiped as hvhY for they are not worshiping the vessel but the god with in the vessel.
@sixthheretic You're contradicting yourself man, im going to make a video and clear up stuff for you, thru out the bible whenever angels come to people and they try to worship then, the angels always say, see that you dont do that, because im your fellow man, but you said, "Anyone that speaks for hvhY can be worshiped" NO, we honour them, not worship! only God get the glory. but read heb 1.. see what the father said about jesus.
@classiq876 They can be worshiped as hvhY if they have higher authority. Jesus said that we shall judge angels so of course we can not worship hvhY inside of them. But hvhY appointed man over woman and woman over child and jesus over man and hvhY over jesus. If some one speaks for hvhY and has higher authority then yourself then you can worship hvhY with in them. Just do not worship the vessel for the vessel is nothing with out the spirit of hvhY
@sixthheretic When you honour the son you honour the father, if you don't honour the son, you don't honour the father. so whatever you do unto the son you do unto father. yes u should pray to the father and come thru d son because he is our mediator, ask anything in my name of my father, anyways there're only one God not three, but the one God plays three different role, the holy spirit is the father, the spirit inside jesus is the father, d father is the father so its d father
@sixthheretic the body jesus is the son but the spirit inside is the father its the same spirit that was when heaven, john 1, the word! now you see we are not worshiping the body but the spirit, but honour and glory to the son, the body. because we all seen the authority, the body has, hope you understand me but im going to make a videosoon so tell me were i went wrong if you think i do.
I ONLY WORSHIP AND PRAY TO THE SAME GOD THAT JESUS WORSHIPED AND PRAYED TO. I PRAY TO THE GOD THAT RESURRECTED JESUS AFTER 3 DAYS OF HIS DEATH. I DO NOT WORSHIP A GOD THAT DIES. I WORSHIP AN ETERNAL GOD.
@RhodesHK The word for "word" is the word "logos" Logos can mean anything from the law you prophesy to facts to basic knowledge or ideas or forknowledge. When the logos became flesh that means the the prophesys concerning the mesiah had been reallzed. Remember jesus didnt get the holy spirit until the age of thirty at his baptisum. The concept of a man being a god was started by nimrod and his son was his reincarnation. Jesus worship is nimrod worship. Pray only to the father never the son.
Quite a few responses here, didn't realize it was such a hot topic. I thought the nicene council more or less wrapped this up way back when Arius brought up the very same point... interesting.... So if Jesus isn't God, that means that God doesn't have dissasociative identity disorder? Point being, Jesus never knew the day or the hour, no one knows, not even the son, but the father. I believe it says something like that in Matthew 24:36. So if Jesus isn't God that statement makes works.
Jesus was and still is the perfect vessel for hvhY. and anyone that is the vessel of hvhY can be refrenced as hvhY. Just as peter was refrenced as satan when satan tempted jesus through peters words. My hvhY bless you and keep you sir. And one day I will meet you along with the rest of the sheep that prayed only to hvhY and beleievd all of hvhY will.
he and father are being worship as almight God together (rev 5;9-14)
song of Mose for father and Jesus ....Lord God Almighty (rev 15;3-4)
Almighty God come like a thief,and give saint the blood to drink (rev 3;3)(16;6)(16;14-15)
Almight God is comming soon (rev 3;11)(22;12-13)(22;20) "It is right to give to the Lamb who was put to death, power and wealth and wisdom and strength and honour and glory and blessing."(5;12)
brother, in between father and son, if Lord Jesus humble himself ,worship father , it doesn't affect Jesus's glory, when he finish his mission on the cross, father promise to exalted him on highest place, all of the nations should bow and confess He is "Lord" (phil 2;6-11)(dani 7;13-14)he is king of the king and Lord of the Lord,(rev 5;9-14)(17;14) but you just don't want to glorify him , worship him, back to the bible brother,you still confuse about son of God and son of man .put down ur pride
(Rev 1:4 KJV) John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;
(Rev 1:5 KJV) And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
which is, and which was, and which is to come; is not Jesus!
Lord Jesus love you brother, thank for your info, I am happy to share my view, the book of revelation is about Lord Jesus , why ? look at the beginning and the end of chapter,"
" He who gives witness to these things says, Truly, I come quickly. Even so come, Lord Jesus. The grace of the Lord Jesus be with the saints. So be it. " (rev 22;21)
Dear brother,do u still believe bible ? all of them ? when Lord Jesus said father will glorify him (john 14;31-32),Holy spirit will bring him glory (john 16;13-15) he sais he desert glory (luke 24;25-26)(matt 24;30)all nations bow and worshipe and confess he is "Lord "(phili2;6-11)(dani 7;13-14)we can pray to him and father (john 14;13)(matt 18;19-20)father and me are one (joh 10;30)Lord Jesus neve reject when people worship him (mat 14;32),will u give him glory ? bow and worship him ?
@sixthheretic about 1 Cor,11, in Old testament , God is a head of adam, God is creator, God is saiviour, God is a head over everything, do you agree ? but Paul said God have a secret-Christ , (ephe 3;1-11) Jesus said "father and me are one " (john 10;30) (Father ,Jesus) God is head of Adam (Gen 1;26) (father,Jesus)God is creator.(1;1-3) (father Jesus)God is saviour(2 pet 1;1) (father,Jesus)God is a head over everthing. (eph 1;21-23)
(1 TIM 3;15-16) " But if I am long in coming, this will make clear to you what behaviour is right for men in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and base of what is true.
3:16 And without argument, great is the secret of religion: He who was seen in the flesh, who was given God's approval in the spirit, was seen by the angels, of whom the good news was given among the nations, in whom the world had faith, who was taken up in glory.
JESUS IS GOD THAT SAME AS FATHER FATHER IS;GOD,LORD, LORD GOD,SABBATH OF THE LORD,SAVIOUR,KING OF ISREAL,MIGHTY AND ALMIGHTY GOD JESUS IS ;GOD(JOHN 1'1-3)(ROMAN 9;5) LORD (PHIL 2;9-11), LORD GOD(JOHN 20;28) SABBATH OF THE LORD (MATTHE 12;8) SAVIOUR (2 PETER 1;1) KING OF THE WORLD (JOHN 18;36-37)( REV 11;15) CHURCH OF ETERNAL GOD (1 TIM 3;15-16) MIGHTY GOD (ISAIAH 9;6-7) ALMIGHTY GOD (REV 1;7-8)(REV 15;3-4) KING OF THE KING ,LORD OF THE LORD (REV 17;14) JESUS TO BE GLORIFY(JH 12;8)
A lie in caps lock is still a lie. deut 5[7] Thou shalt have none other gods before me.
[8] Thou shalt not make thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the waters beneath the earth:
[9] Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me,
@sixthheretic dear brother , you have to know God have not contridiction for reveal himself, the secret of God, even Christ (colo 2;2),you can not use one verse to delet other because all of them i show you support Lord Jesus is God also base on God's revelation,no body made it up. just because either you don't understand how they related it or you can not accept it. patient brother, i will show you more proof.
God is one, but have father ,son and holy spirit together. God is gradual reveal himself. Jesus is God's word (john ;1-3)God's wisdom (Prov 8;1-30)God's image (colo 1;14) this is the mystery of holy trinity.why and how ? we cannot understand because it about God himself. God's word is God, like your word is you. God;s image is God=your image is you , not someone else.so, in OT, no matter what God say and do, Jesus and holy spirit are include (john 1;1-3)(Gen 1'1-3)
@jesusisisgod1 If you can not understand it you should not believe it. 1Thes.5[21] Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
If you can not understand a thing you should not believe in a thing. seek and ye shall find ask and it shall be answered. hvhY will give the answers to who ever will ask for them. If you settle for senselessness then you believed a lie for the truth can be understood, only a lie contradicts its self. Even jesus told you to pray to the father. So do it.
@sixthheretic dear brother, this is not the right attitude to study bible, if something you don't understand, you should ask father help you . if you still thinking "trinity" is wrong .no biblical support. may be you can correct me ,first , how could you explain two Sabbath of the Lord (matthe 12;7-8)(exo 20;8-12)?two creator ?(john 1;1-3)two God ? if you believe 2000 evil spirits possessed a man are possiable 2000=1(mark 5;12-13)why 3 spirit = one God are impossiable (matt 28;18-20)?
2Tim2[15]Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.Prov28[9] He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be abomination.Rom1[23] And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man,Luke6[46] And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?Matt.6[9] After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
so many evidents support Lord Jesus is Godthat same as father , why people don't understand ? Paul say because God become flesh beyound our understand (1 tim 3;15-16)Lord Jesus humble and empty himself become man (Phili 2;6-9) man lower than angel (heb 2;9) born of a woman,born under law (gala 4;4-5)man need God, man pray to God and glorify God,man being tempted by satan, man will died, pain,hungery,thirsty,grief,fear, Lord Jesus is 100 % God and man.
@jesusisisgod1 Yeshua is the vessel for hvhY. We are to pray to the god inside yeshua which is hvhY. It never ever said to pray to the son we are to pray to the father only. Not is yeshua a vessel but so are we vessels because jesus said "the works that I do will ye do also and greater" If jesus is god then I can be greater then god. The trinity is a pagan belief added to christianity by the converted pagans in the third century. The cross is the symbol of the pagan perversion of christianity.
@sixthheretic Dear brother, friendly remind you,Lord Jesus did say we pray to father also himself,(john 14;13-14)when Lord finish his misson on the cross, God exalted him and given to him the name which is greater than every name; So that at the name of Jesus every knee may be bent, of those in heaven and those on earth and those in the underworld, And that every tongue may give witness that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Lord Jesus being worship as father.
Do you have any idea of what the greek word is for "word"? it is logos. logos is used as a blanket term for any type of knowledge or logic. In this particular instance the Prophecies were made flesh. The prophesies being refrenced are the prophecies concerning the comming redeemer. The cross is a lie by the way jesus was crusified on a pole. The cross was a pagan symbol adopted by all pagan christains that pray to the false idol they have made out of jesus christ.
@sixthheretic When Lod Jesus got all the authority from father(matt 28;19)he is God that we can pray to him,as paul pray to him and he answer (2 Corint 12;8-9). you said"If jesus is god then I can be greater then God" brother, read the context,Lord Jesus is speaking as son of man,as he sad he is humble (matthe 11;29)he come to serve,not to be serve(matt 20;28) , he encourage us do more work to glorify father (john 15;8)
@sixthheretic first time "God become flesh" happened in (Gen 18;1-33), Jesus is God bcome flesh (john ;1-3)(1;14)a son of man, a righteousness can save himself only but no other(Ezekie 14;20), same as lord Jesus if he just a sinless man, he can not save the world but himself alone. only God can take away the sin of the world (isaih 43;25)(Isaiah 45;20-23)(john 1;29)Jesus is second adam, head of the church and man and all things ,prophet, hight priest , king , Lord ,God,Lamb,light......
Lord Jesus is God one and only son (john 3;16)he have same glory with father ,he is not creature because all of the creatures worship him and father(Rev 11-14)Jesus say he is Lord of the sabbath (matthew 12;8) same as father (Exo 20;8-12)father is God , son is God , father is cat , son is cat , beef from beef , dog from dog, man from man, God from God,same essence this is the reason why Jews kill Jesus for he is "son of God" (john 5;17;18)(19;7)(matthew 26;63-66)(27;43)
@jesusisisgod1 You are an idolater if you pray to the creature rather then the creator. Jesus was the vessel for hvhY not hvhY. Just as the ark of the coventent was taken from the jews when they began to worship the vessel (ark) rather then hvhY. Jesus commanded us to pray to the father not to pray to himself. So I will pray to the father. Jesus will refuse anyone that prays to him and not hvhY. Idol worship is idol worship no matter how perfect the creature you pray to is.
@sixthheretic Dear brother, your idea come from your own thought ,not entirely from bible. first of all, bible did say Jesus is God (Isaiah 7;14)(9;6-7)(john 1;1-3)(mattew 1;22-23)(john 20;28)(Roman 9;5)(Heb 1;8-13)(1 john 5;20)(Rev 1;8)(Phil 2;6)father is Lord of Israel,Paul announce to all the church that Jesus is LORD as well (Phili 2;9-11) in old testament, Israel call up the name of the Lord will be save (Joe 2;31-32)NT,it apply to Lord Jesus (Roman 10;9-12)
God claim he created all things by himself and alone (Isaiah 44;24) he never created any gods that like him (Isa 43;10-11)Solomon said God have a son that we don't even know his name (Prov 30;4) he is God's wisdom (Prov 1;21)image (colo 1;14)he was born of God in eternity before all things (Prov8;22-36) he created all things with God (8;30)(john 1;1-3)(1 corin 8;4-6)he have no begining (mic 5;2)(Heb 7;3)same divinity with father (colo 1;19)(2;9)same authority (matthew 28;19)(john 16;15)he is God
dear brother in christ, I come from china, hope you understand my limited English, i have a same problem like you, get confuse of Trinity, but i went to the church learn and asked , the answer is "God is Trinity" i wonder why some of Christian disagree ? there are so many source from the website and the sunday school of the church, i found out they don't go visit they think they are holding the final answer.this is the truth brother.(sorry to say that)
@WhenDreamsTouchFire God did not become a man! Numbers 2:19 God is not a man, that he should lie, nor a son of man, that he should change his mind." Jesus ONLY receivd God's holy sprit in "full measure" at his baptism, he was not born with it! If Jesus is God, why did he pray to God the Father? You say: God cannot sin, he bcame a man....then you say God is not a man.? What do you man, I am confused.
@TheSaffyone The Spirit of Jesus was DIVINE not his carnal body.Precisely why he assumed/took that body with all its human limitations to show mankind THE WAY,How they too can become One ,return next to God,
You are not worshipping Jesus as you imagine he was AS MAN but only as part of the trinity.
"Me and My Father are One""havent you recognised Me all that time?..."then how do you say show us God?(He never said worship Me as a Man-body but only His Divine nature that is One with God)
then you will have to pray to me as well since I am one with hvhY and jesus.
John.17
[21] That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
@delagrazia This leaves the question of God the father became god the son. Here we have the term god the son. Yes surely it means god the son is God the father if God is one. So God the father is god the son and the same person?
if not then we have 3 gods in the trinity. If we only have one God then you are saying God the father became a man hence God is seen as a man.
if yes then 3 persons means 3 personalities hence the one God concepts is also broken.
@TheSaff You cannot see God in all his glory In His entiretyThats what is ment by..we cannot see God.But we can see God taking different forms as there is an ex in the old testament too.When God takes a form He does not lessen,nor does it mean at that moment He is only in that form(omnipresent)
The exterior aspect of Jesus is mattterOnly few could see the divinity in Him.The Divine is One and undivided eventhough if He is in Christ That s an attribute of God.Same with men achieving deification
@delagrazia I will just have to repeat what sixthheretic said. If you pray to jesus because of " I and my father are one" then might as well pray to all Christians and allow me to say and Muslims too.
@TheSaffyone you mean to THOSE christians that have achieved deification (and are One with God)Those are very few. When they have achieved that state they are One in Spirit,same essence with God.We pray to that One essence (not to the separate ppl (personalities) that achieved that state or their body that was carnal,)
@delagrazia I want a clear passage from the bible in context that says we cannot see God in his full glory and that we can see God in his human image. If you say God created man in his own image, I guess here God is too big to fit to earth then ops, he became a smaller version. Seeing Christ is basically seeing God hence it is a contradiction to the bible where it says no man shall see God and lives.
God is not to be made in the image of a man. Jesus was the perfect vessel for hvhY as we are also vessels for him. No man has seen hvhY at any time.You are an idolater. Plain and simple.
@sixthheretic I am not an idolater and you are mistaken plain and simple. In Islam we don't believe God created man in his own image. Refer to Surah 112 of the Quran where it states there is nothing near or compartive to God. We cannot not imagine him means we don't put him in the mind and form imagination of the lord. We don't imagine God, he is way above the imagination.
The bible says god created man in his own image and I was answering a person based on his logic.
God claim he created all things by himself and alone (Isaiah 44;24) he never created any gods that like him (Isa 43;10-11)Solomon said God have a son that we don't even know his name (Prov 30;4) he is God's wisdom (Prov 1;21)image (colo 1;14)he was born of God in eternity before all things (Prov8;22-36) he created all things with God (8;30)(john 1;1-3)(1 corin 8;4-6)he have no begining (mic 5;2)(Heb 7;3)same divinity with father (colo 1;19)(2;9)same authority (matthew 28;19)(john 16;15 )
@TheSaffyone 3persons does not mean 3Gods if there is ONE essence.In Spirit Jesus is One with God.Even so,Jesus was created by God.Men achieiving theosis become One in essence with God -eternal immortal,share all his attributes except the uncreatedness (because man was created .Jesus also)If you deny that Jesus is one with God you deny the entire Christian doctrine of deification which is the basis of Christianity.We worship ONE God essence,So if a saint is deified his essence is One with God
oh and by the way praying to three different "persons" is praying to three separate gods. and if you pray to more then one god you worship a pantheon. you are an idolater.
@TheSaff someone before me gave u a more concise answer.Christian sites also explain the matter very well.and old church fathers books.As far as Hindus.If they worship Gods different attributes-aspects as...separate from the whole thats idolatry.SO 1A certain aspect of God for what it represents(ex.war,death) 2/the embodiment of those partial aspects in specific persons-gods as many hindus practically do)We worship One essence+Will Jesus as His mission on earth is the Way to the Father
@TheSaffyone No independent Will His power is from the Father coz they are One in essence+Will.Hindu gods have different charachteristics.But Krishna is probably the equivalent of Christ. Gods son-embodiment.
What does KOR.A'8.5-6 say?we believe in the One father from where all comes
I am in the process of finishing a website called monotheists[.]info . please remove the [] . I would appreciate if you register because that's would help me in testing. You will have a freedom to post unlimited words. The main purpose of the website is to debate monothesim.
One simple logic. What distingush the concept of God in trinity to the concept of God in hinduism? they both claim to worship the one God yet making partners with him. God has no partners
Jesus is lord of all jesus is just not the hvhY. Jesus told us to pray to the father and jesus said why callest me thou lord and do not the things which I say unto you
@WhenDreamsTouchFire Allah is what you call the father. How do you call worshiping God an idol worshiping, the only one God and there is no other God besides him. His the creator of heavens and earth.
Man owrshiping man cannot be understood anything but idol worshiping. Christ is a man. A special prophet but by no chance he is God.
Don't imagine God means don't imagine God. Your bible tells you as sixtheretic gave you enough evidences such as making God a man is a sin.
you do realize that jesus is a man and you think he is god so therefore you are an idolater. Just wanted to be clear on what I was trying to convey to you. If you pray to a man as if he is God you comit idolartry. Romans 1:23 applies to you making jesus God.
So if we wont be gods and we are one with God why would you say that jesus is god just because he is one with god like we are. If jesus is God then we are gods too. If we are not gods then neither can jesus be God. Why dont we just do what jesus says and pray only to the father and stop praying to the son. "Our Father which art in heaven hallowed be THY (your) NAME (which is hvhY)"
The baptisum was when jesus recieved the holy spirit. That is what the bible says and I am not going to add to it. Before the baptisum jesus had no holy spirit and after he had the holy spirit.
You do realize that we are also one with god and jesus right?
John.17
[21] That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
Does that make me god too if I am one with jesus and God?
"god" and it is not jesus. For jesus to us to pray only to the father. So I pray only to the father. Worship means awe reverance and respect. So I could say my wife worships me I worship my boss just as I worship god and jesus. But only hvhY do I love with all of my heart soul mind and strength for only hvhY is my "god"
@sixthheretic I hope you find happiness in what you believe in. To me the Quran is 100% the word of God, the creator of heavens and earth. All what I can say, I hope you will one day change your mind. Thank you for answering my queries.
@sixthheretic I am not offended at all, thesea are our differences. To be honest I had stero typed Christians for being believers of a trinity. I was surprised to find a group in Christianity that are believing in the True One God. We worship the same God in different rituals. I cannot say that to Catholics for example.
Jews are also believers in the One True God.
You are almost a Muslim the way you acknowldge God. Between you and Islam is believing in the prophethood of Mohamed.
That is the only problem that I have with islam is that they follow mohamed. I definatly have no problems with you. thanks for your comment you should follow me on facebook.
@sixthheretic With the will of God, I will certainly joing you in facebook.
Repeating what you said only problem that I have with Islam that they follow Mohamed. Is there a theological problem with Prophet Mohamed ex anti Christ?
You don't have to answer but I would love to debate it.
@sixthheretic I am a web developer on LAMP. Give me a few months after I finish with some websites I got, with God will I will make a forum specifically for this purpose. We could start something of partnership in business. If we manage to make this website famous then there is money to be made.
Allah said: Indeed, they have disbelieved who have said, “God is the Messiah (Jesus), son of Mary.” The Messiah said, “Children of Israel, worship God, my Lord and your Lord. Whoever associates partners in worship with God, then God has forbidden Paradise for him, and his home is the Fire (Hell). For the wrongdoers, there will be no helpers.”
Allah said: Indeed, they disbelieve who say, “God is the third of three (in a trinity),” when there is no god but one God. If they desist not from what they say, truly, a painful punishment will befall the disbelievers among them. Would they not rather repent to God and ask His forgiveness? For God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. The Messiah (Jesus), son of Mary, was no more than a messenger...
Muslims believe in one, unique, incomparable God, Who has no son nor partner, and that none has the right to be worshipped but Him alone. He is the true God, and every other deity is false. He has the most magnificent names and sublime perfect attributes. No one shares His divinity, nor His attributes.God describes Himself: Allah said: Say, “He is God, the One. God, to Whom the creatures turn for their needs. He begets not, nor was He begotten, and there is none like Him.” (Quran, 112:1-4)
In the Name of Allah, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful
O People of the Scripture, do not commit excess in your religion or say about Allah except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, was but a messenger of Allah and His word which He directed to Mary and a soul [created at a command] from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers. (cont.)
and say not, Three. Desist, it is better for you; Allah is only one Allah; far be It from His glory that He should have a son, whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth is His, and Allah is sufficient for a Protector.
Ok well thank you for shareing your OPINION but the bible teachs if you pray to anything other then hwhY you commit idolatry. But Good luck with you praying to a man.
I am a male Human,... So if I am to have a son in the future then that son of mine is no less Human than I am,... He is my only begotten son & like me he IS Human,... No more, no less just as Gods Son is God, no more, no less.
If jesus were god he would be made of spirit by your logic. But instead the bible tells us that jesus recieved the holy spirit at his baptisum John.1[32] ...I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him. If he was God why would he recieve the holy spirit when he was thirty. Or was he not God until he recieved the holy spirit. More likely he was a a man with out sin that recieved the holy spirit from God.
I've liked a few of your vids --so glad to hear that you're not a modalist or trinitarian! I'm not familiar with CULT though. 2:27 great point about the 2 wills. I'd like to ask 2 questions...1) Is the Tanakh you ruler by which you measure everything including the writings of the apostles....what you use to "prove all things whether they're told to you by men or angels? 2)where in the Tanakh does it prophecy that the Messiah will be born of a literal virgin?
Truth can not contradict truth so I believe both the "old" and "new" Teastament can not contradict unless the truth is quoted and supplanted by a greater truth i.e. Eye for an eye and turn the other cheek. as for your virgin question the word for virgin in the tanakh mean maiden or young unwed woman. In that time a young unwed woman was synonamous with a virgin but they did not have a separation of sex and marriage like our culture does today. Sex is marrage in the bible.1cor6:16
@sixthheretic Actually throughout scripture "almah" refers to both married & unmarried women (see Is 7 & 8 where betulah refers to a literal virgin and isn't the word used in Is 7 which christians typically call a messianic prophecy though it has nothing at all to do with Yeshua or a literal virgin.. So where in the Tanakh does it predict a literal virgin birth of a messiah as is claimed in Matt & Luke?? Sex is not marriage in the bible... see Gen 34 for example.
@BornInTzyon sex was supposed to be marriage even in the torah. Deuteronomy 22:28-29
As for your alma refrence you are right however Alma can also be a virgin. The prophesys that predate the bible such as the prophecies in the constellation virgo or what it is also refrenced as (in the hebrew) Bethula do make refrences to the redeemer who is coming to save all men from sin and he shall be born of a virgin..
@sixthheretic Sex wasn't equal to marriage; if it were, every prostitute or concubine would've been considered a wife yet they weren't. Sex was however the consummation of every marriage covenant.Almah refers to a young woman whether literal virgin or not. Betulah is used strictly for virgin. This word Betulah is not used in Is 7 which speaks of a non virgin which can easily be seen by reading Is 7 & 8 in context. There is no precedent for a literal virgin birth. That comes from pagan cultures.
NO IDOL WORSHIP IN ISLAM WORSHIP GOD (ALLAH) DIRECTLY WITH NO INTERCESSOR THAT IS THE TRUE RELIGION, THE RELIGION OF ALL THE PROPHETS PEACE BEUPON THEM ALL.
@wayofsalaf I wouldn't say "exactly". I can only speak for myself. I believe He is still the Son of God, died on the cross and rose again for the sin of mankind, and believe the bible is the truth. We just don't agree on Him being God.
ONE THING FORSURE!!! YESHUA WAS NOT BEING CRUCIFIED BECAUSE HE IS A GOOD RABBI,PROPHET..nor BECAUSE HE WAS A NOBLE TEACHER ,NOR FOR HE WAS BEING THE SON OF GOD,CUZ DAVID ,GIDEON ,SHLOMO WERE ALSO THE SON OF GOD..BUT BECAUSE HE VEHEMENTLY PROCLAIM HIMSELF AS THE ETERNAL FATHER WHO COMES IN FLESH...REMEMBER THE VERSE THAT SAYS ...BEFORE AVRAHAM WAS I AM...AFTER THAT THE YEHUDIM WANTED TO KILL HIM WITH STONES...IN NUTSHELL...YOU ENDUP CONTRADICTING YERSELF IN AND OUT MISTEPRETING BIBLE
as for before abraham I am the word in the greek is protos which can be translated as first in rank so yes yeshua has a higher rank then abraham. but that doesnt mean he exsisted before abraham. No where did jesus ever say to pray to himself but instead he said to pray to the father. Our father who art in heaven. 1 cor 11:3 woman has lees authority then man, man less then yeshua and yeshua less then God. btw lay off the caps lock
you havent answer my question!!!!why was Yeshua Being crucified???..and by the way dont get me wrong I dont abide trinity doctrine..number of believers were put to death for For following Yeshua,they're labled heretic cult by many elders of Yehudim...
ha ha ha you are a liar!!..show me the verse!!!david ,shlomo was also a mosiach(the anointed one),but they were not rebuked with death penalty by his own people!!!.EVEN BAR KOBACH was claimed to be mosiach...but he died in his oldage...IF YOU WONT ADMIT THAT YAHUSHUA IS ""HE",YOU WILL DIE IN YOUR SINS....DONT EXPECT TO MUCH FROM THE BIBLE THAT IT WOULD PROVIDE YOU WITH YOUR STANDART COMMON SENSE,IT'S ABOUT HIS SENSE,NOT YOURS,,USE THE PARADOXAL WAY OF THINKING WHEN READ BIBLE
No you are the lair. You pray to a man then you commit idolatry. That is it and that is all. You are an idol worshiper. hwhY will not punish me for praying only to him. But he will punish those that pray to the images of men or animals or creeping things. Yeshua is a man and you pray to him.
your premises is still way too lame to deny Yeshua's deity!!..remember Yeshua Is A Rock,...and He could Be a stumbling Rock at anytime for any one who would try to mangle and twist G-d 's Words In the bible
what bible do you read? if you want to deny Yeshua 's deity.you need to delete those passages which show His Persecutions by those Yehudim,You need to delete the verse that admit Him Being Cruciefied.other wise you ll end up labled false teacher..in the eyes of ortodhox jews Yeshua was nothing but a false prophet who blesphemously claim to be The Deity.The Jews Would not even remember his name no more.They altered his name to "Yoske".understanding Yeshua is so hard isnt it?
I read the king james version. As for you if you want to think that yeshua is a diety then you must delete the 1st and 2nd of the 10 commandments. I do believe that yeshua was crusified and died and that hwhY raised him from the dead and we are to serve him as our king and do as our king commands and when he said to pray to the father then I will pray to the father and not the son.
ha ha ha ..believe me man,,,you are just a confused theologian,you are only pursuing fortune and fame,just like all the rest of those atheist authors,..tell me ,you wanne be famous like justin bieber?..learn how to dance,stop preaching lies!
YESHUA SAID TO PILATE,THAT "HIS KINGDOM..*EMPHASIZE "HIS".IS THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN!!...NOT OF THE EARTH"...WOW...KINGDOM OF HEAVEN!!!???..HIS????DONT YOU THINK THAT IT BELONGS ONLY TO THE ALMIGHTY????.IF THE KINGDOM HEAVEN IS "HIS"..THAT MEANS YESHUA ESSENSELY /.SPIRITUALY IS THE G-D THAT OWNS THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN..
hwhY gave dominion of the heavens and the earth to his son yeshua. But until you find me a verse that says pray to yeshua then I am going to pray to hwhY who is My father in heaven. You pray to anything othewr then hwhY you commit idol worship
@sayaretmatkal80 Which contradicts Lk 1:32 "He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David,"
So which is His kingdom Heaven or earth? Or do you think David is God also? You did refer to him (David) as the messiah, and you think messiah means God in man's skin. Cyrus of Persia was also called "the annointed one" (messiah) by God. So his claim as son of god, therefore a god man, must have been true. NOT!
@sayaretmatk Furthermore you are ignoring the FACT there are three heavens as stated by Paul (2 Cor 12:2)! Which Heaven was Christ refering to? Which does God rule? Christ said "His kingdom was not of this world" He did not say it's heaven! Changing words to make a point is still lying! Could Christ have been referring to a future world He would rule over, like after He returns (as promised in Luke)? What does the bible mean by Christ standing at the right side of God? How many gods do you have?
@sixthheretic This is referring 2 Jesus: ISAIAH 9:6-7. THE MIGHTY GOD!!! Jesus is the Word in JOHN 1:1-34 + the Word became flesh + dwelt among us!!! These Scriptures show clearly that Jesus is both God + eternal in nature + there4 has always been unlike Abraham who was created by the Word who is Jesus!!!
@chassr1 I have read ISAIAH 9:6-7. If u had looked at some of my comments 2 @sixthheretic + other ppl u would c that i quote this Scripture often. There4 i have obviously read the Scripture u think i wouldn't read. Also i use Strong's Concordance with Hebrew + Greek Lexicon. U r clearly putting words such as "magic consultant of the Mighty" when they clearly r not there. DON'T TRY 2 DISTORT WHAT IS CLEARLY STATED!!! u R ONLY FOOLING URSELF WHEN U EVEN DISTORT WHAT THE HEBREW LEXICON SAYS. ..
That is the Hebrew of Is 9:6 from the Hebrew Bible, not something I wrote. All I did was go to a site and translated it word for word from hebrew to english with the help of strongs for the two words that are misspelled. I have distorted nothing! I don't know why it uses the word "magic", but if you notice strongs translates it as "wonderful", not really much of a difference brother! The point is still that in Is 9:6 He's not called God, but "wonderful counselor of the Mighty". Translate it!
The word that Strong tranlated to El or God is אֵ֣ל. But when I translated it, it is "to" not El. So my only conclusion is that "Mighty God" in Is 9:6 is a translation error or someone knowingly changed it not counting on the hebrew being so easy to translate in the future. The latter is a horrible thought so I hope it was an honest mistake, but there have been many changes to the Bible by the trinitarians in order to push thier false doctrine. Turn to the Father and He will answer all things.
@The3in1trinity On a side note Strong's Concordance has a lot of different words that are translated from "אֵ֣ל" (Strong's #408-413). How do you know which one to use when translating the hebrew? "To" is what I get when I translate that word.
@chassr1 If u use a Strong's Concordance then u would realise by the word + number what it is referring 2. Can u explain what the point is u r trying 2 make as u have lost me? Thanks...
In Hebrew Gematria the sum of letters of שִׁלֻּשׁ אֱלֹהַּ-[shillush eloah]-"Trinity God" or
שִׂלֻּשׁ הָאֵל-[shillush hael]-"Trinity Of The God" is equal to 666 in both cases.
But the sum of letters of the Hebrew אֱלֹהַּ-[eloah] or Aramaic אֱלָהּ-[elah] or Arabic اله-[ilah] meaning "God" is equal to 36, but it's known that adding together from 1 to 36 (1+2+3+...36) is equal to 666 too. Also Sum of the letters of Aramaic word שַׁמְשׁוּ -[shamshu] "sun" is equal to 666.
Just keep telling yourself that. I am going to be sure and only love God with all my heart soul mind and strength. God will never punish me for that. He will however send me to a lake of fire if I love and worship a man more then I love God
@sixthheretic It's God's Inspired Word the Bible that shows me that Jesus is the Son of God + is entitled 2 receive worship: 1 JOHN 1-34. PHILIPPIANS 2:5-11. JOHN 1-26. ISAIAH 9:6-7. REVELATION 5:12-14.
Jesus is the son of God and is worthy of worship but it is not the type of worship you think it is. Jesus is the son of God like adam was the son of God (Luke.3[38]) surely you dont think that adam is god too? As for worship the word is proskune and it means to kiss the hand. I would kiss jesus`s hand but to venerate I look to the word "sebomai"
Matt.15[9] But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
@sixthheretic Unless u don't believe ALL Scripture is Inspired by God the Holy Spirit, then JOHN 1:1-34 + JOHN 14:11-26 show that Jesus is the Son of God. Adam was a son of God. Jesus is the only Begotten of the Father. Adam was created just like u + me. PHILIPPIANS 2:5-11 shows who Jesus is. I have given u this Scripture b4. There's no getting away from the fact that Jesus is the Son of God. ISAIAH 9:6-7 is another Scripture i have previously given u.
@The3in1trinity Yeah I have no doubt that jesus is the son of God. But I will only worship the father not jesus. To worship a man as if he is hwhY is idolatry. All scripture when properly interprted has no contradictions. To believe that jesus is hwhY contradicts the first commandment exodus 20:3-6 and romans 1:23 and jesus who showed us how to pray. our FATHER never did jesus say to pray to him. The head of the woman is the man the head of the man is jesus and the head of jesus is hwhY 1cor11:3
@sixthheretic The 1st Commandment ISN'T contradicted by worshipping Jesus. God is Father, Son + Holy Spirit. 1 God in 3 persons. ISAIAH 9:6-7 IS BOTH JESUS + THE MIGHTY GOD. JOHN 1:1-34 shows Jesus is the Word that was WITH God + WAS God, + the Word became flesh + dwelt amongst us. This shows God in the form of Jesus the Son of God died 4 our sins. JOHN 5:23-29. PHILIPPIANS 2:5-11. ONLY GOD RECEIVES WORSHIP. This is Y Jesus WILL receive worship...
@sixthheretic Jesus is God in the flesh. Jesus was showing the Disciples HOW 2 pray. Jesus also subjected Himself 2 the Father. MATTHEW 3:11-17. No disrespect, but ur logic in regards 2 y Jesus the Son needed 2 pray is similar 2 Muslims who can't understand that Jesus emptied Himself of His power + relied on His Father totally. God the Holy Spirit is the author of Scripture + God the Holy Spirit doesn't contradict the Son + the Son doesn't contradict the Father. Jesus is still God the Son...
Just because you say that jesus was hwhY in the flesh does not make it so. If jesus was showing the disciples how to pray and he said to pray to the father why do you pray to the son? And where in the bible does it say that jesus emptied him self of power? Jesus never had his own power all the powe
27 I leave YOU peace, I give YOU my peace. I do not give it to YOU the way that the world gives it. Do not let YOUR hearts be troubled nor let them shrink for fear. 28 YOU heard that I said to YOU, I am going away and I am coming [back] to YOU. If YOU loved me, YOU would rejoice that I am going my way to the Father, because the Father is greater than I am.
TheButtascotchbro1 20 hours ago
How did Jesus feel about submitting to Jehovah’s headship and coming to earth?
TheButtascotchbro1 20 hours ago
The Scriptures state: “Christ Jesus, who, although he was existing in God’s form, gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God. No, but he emptied himself and took a slave’s form and came to be in the likeness of men. More than that, when he found himself in fashion as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient as far as death.” (Phil. 2:5-8) At all times, Jesus humbly submitted to his Father’s will
TheButtascotchbro1 20 hours ago
. He said: “I seek, not my own will, but the will of him that sent me.” (John 5:30) “I always do the things pleasing to [my Father],” he declared. (John 8:29) Toward the end of his life on earth, Jesus said in prayer to his Father: “I have glorified you on the earth, having finished the work you have given me to do.” (John 17:4) Evidently, Jesus had no problem with recognizing and accepting God’s headship over him.
TheButtascotchbro1 20 hours ago
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To understand the Trinity you have to start with the fact that there is and always will be one God. God is not like us. He has always existed as a Father, Son, Spirit relationship. God relates to Himself while remaining one God. The Son became human, the Father punished Him for the sin of those who will trust in Him. The Spirit applies this salvation to the believer. 1 God, but 3 distinctions within God. Christians do not believe in 3 Gods, but a God that is more complex than His creation.
TheJmsauer 6 days ago
Matt. 14:33 - the apostles who were in the boat worshiped Jesus without rebuke.
Matt. 28:9 - Jesus' disciples took His feet and worshiped Him without rebuke.
Matt. 28:17 - Jesus' disciples saw Him and then worshiped Him.
Mark 5:6 - the man with the unclean spirit ran to Jesus and worshiped Him.
John 20:28 - Jesus accepts Thomas' statement
"My Lord and my God!"
Literally, "the Lord of me and the God of me!"
(in Greek, "Ho Kurios mou kai ho Theos mou").
And there is more
classiq876 1 month ago
1 {commandment} EX.20 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God,. Matt. 2:2,11 - the magi who came to see the newborn Jesus came to worship Him.
Matt. 8:2 - a leper came to Jesus and worshiped Him without rebuke.
Luke 24:52 - as Jesus ascended into heaven, the apostles worshiped Him.
John 9:38 - the blind man who was cured by Jesus worshiped.
classiq876 1 month ago
@classiq876 The problem you have is that you have a modern understanding of what worship is. What you lack is a biblical understanding of what worship is. In the bible kings were worshiped and moses was worshiped and husbands were worshiped by their wives. Anyone of higher authority can be worshiped by those of lesser authority. How ever only hvhY recieves our prayers. No where in the bible does it say to pray to jesus it always says to pray to hvhY. Hope this answers your question.
sixthheretic 1 month ago
@sixthheretic Nothing have change man, read the first commandment, worship is different from honour, they honour their husband,king,etc but they worship their God. read rev 22: 9, NOW read rev 4 : 8 - 11 now tell me what wrong here. Dont the angel is of higher athourity than john? so why the angel say no dont do that? i have more tell me if you want them, go read, revelation chap 4 and see the real jesus that die for us not the earthly body but the person who was in that body
classiq876 1 month ago
@classiq876
Ok let me explain it this way. Anyone that speaks for hvhY can be worshiped as hvhY for they are not worshiping the vessel but the god with in the vessel.
sixthheretic 1 month ago
@sixthheretic You're contradicting yourself man, im going to make a video and clear up stuff for you, thru out the bible whenever angels come to people and they try to worship then, the angels always say, see that you dont do that, because im your fellow man, but you said, "Anyone that speaks for hvhY can be worshiped" NO, we honour them, not worship! only God get the glory. but read heb 1.. see what the father said about jesus.
classiq876 1 month ago
@classiq876 They can be worshiped as hvhY if they have higher authority. Jesus said that we shall judge angels so of course we can not worship hvhY inside of them. But hvhY appointed man over woman and woman over child and jesus over man and hvhY over jesus. If some one speaks for hvhY and has higher authority then yourself then you can worship hvhY with in them. Just do not worship the vessel for the vessel is nothing with out the spirit of hvhY
sixthheretic 1 month ago
@sixthheretic When you honour the son you honour the father, if you don't honour the son, you don't honour the father. so whatever you do unto the son you do unto father. yes u should pray to the father and come thru d son because he is our mediator, ask anything in my name of my father, anyways there're only one God not three, but the one God plays three different role, the holy spirit is the father, the spirit inside jesus is the father, d father is the father so its d father
classiq876 1 month ago
@sixthheretic the body jesus is the son but the spirit inside is the father its the same spirit that was when heaven, john 1, the word! now you see we are not worshiping the body but the spirit, but honour and glory to the son, the body. because we all seen the authority, the body has, hope you understand me but im going to make a videosoon so tell me were i went wrong if you think i do.
classiq876 1 month ago
I ONLY WORSHIP AND PRAY TO THE SAME GOD THAT JESUS WORSHIPED AND PRAYED TO. I PRAY TO THE GOD THAT RESURRECTED JESUS AFTER 3 DAYS OF HIS DEATH. I DO NOT WORSHIP A GOD THAT DIES. I WORSHIP AN ETERNAL GOD.
quietsparks1 1 month ago
@quietsparks1 I will give you an amen.
sixthheretic 1 month ago
But what about the stuff in John 1:1 that talks about the word being God and then says the word becomes flesh?
RhodesHK 1 month ago
@RhodesHK The word for "word" is the word "logos" Logos can mean anything from the law you prophesy to facts to basic knowledge or ideas or forknowledge. When the logos became flesh that means the the prophesys concerning the mesiah had been reallzed. Remember jesus didnt get the holy spirit until the age of thirty at his baptisum. The concept of a man being a god was started by nimrod and his son was his reincarnation. Jesus worship is nimrod worship. Pray only to the father never the son.
sixthheretic 1 month ago
@sixthheretic stop talk trash man. read my post tell me what wrong wit what i write.
classiq876 1 month ago
Quite a few responses here, didn't realize it was such a hot topic. I thought the nicene council more or less wrapped this up way back when Arius brought up the very same point... interesting.... So if Jesus isn't God, that means that God doesn't have dissasociative identity disorder? Point being, Jesus never knew the day or the hour, no one knows, not even the son, but the father. I believe it says something like that in Matthew 24:36. So if Jesus isn't God that statement makes works.
RhodesHK 1 month ago
@AmbitionzAzAWriter
your welcome
sixthheretic 2 months ago
@AmbitionzAzAWriter it is Yhvh or yawveh jehovah or the most accurate way I can find to spell the name of god in the english language
sixthheretic 3 months ago
@AmbitionzAzAWriter
Jesus was and still is the perfect vessel for hvhY. and anyone that is the vessel of hvhY can be refrenced as hvhY. Just as peter was refrenced as satan when satan tempted jesus through peters words. My hvhY bless you and keep you sir. And one day I will meet you along with the rest of the sheep that prayed only to hvhY and beleievd all of hvhY will.
sixthheretic 3 months ago
LORD JESUS IS ALMIGHTY GOD
he is 'alpha and Omega" (rev 1;8)(21;6-7)
he and father are being worship as almight God together (rev 5;9-14)
song of Mose for father and Jesus ....Lord God Almighty (rev 15;3-4)
Almighty God come like a thief,and give saint the blood to drink (rev 3;3)(16;6)(16;14-15)
Almight God is comming soon (rev 3;11)(22;12-13)(22;20) "It is right to give to the Lamb who was put to death, power and wealth and wisdom and strength and honour and glory and blessing."(5;12)
jesusisisgod1 3 months ago
Comment removed
ProveYourFaith 3 months ago
brother, in between father and son, if Lord Jesus humble himself ,worship father , it doesn't affect Jesus's glory, when he finish his mission on the cross, father promise to exalted him on highest place, all of the nations should bow and confess He is "Lord" (phil 2;6-11)(dani 7;13-14)he is king of the king and Lord of the Lord,(rev 5;9-14)(17;14) but you just don't want to glorify him , worship him, back to the bible brother,you still confuse about son of God and son of man .put down ur pride
jesusisisgod1 3 months ago
@jesusisisgod1
(Rev 1:4 KJV) John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;
(Rev 1:5 KJV) And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
which is, and which was, and which is to come; is not Jesus!
ProveYourFaith 3 months ago
@ProveYourFaith
Lord Jesus love you brother, thank for your info, I am happy to share my view, the book of revelation is about Lord Jesus , why ? look at the beginning and the end of chapter,"
" He who gives witness to these things says, Truly, I come quickly. Even so come, Lord Jesus. The grace of the Lord Jesus be with the saints. So be it. " (rev 22;21)
Lord Jesus love you and so do I :)
jesusisisgod1 3 months ago
@jesusisisgod1
uhoh...jesusisgod1. proveyourfaith is here and I would not want to be you right now. time to prove your faith.
sixthheretic 3 months ago
Dear brother,do u still believe bible ? all of them ? when Lord Jesus said father will glorify him (john 14;31-32),Holy spirit will bring him glory (john 16;13-15) he sais he desert glory (luke 24;25-26)(matt 24;30)all nations bow and worshipe and confess he is "Lord "(phili2;6-11)(dani 7;13-14)we can pray to him and father (john 14;13)(matt 18;19-20)father and me are one (joh 10;30)Lord Jesus neve reject when people worship him (mat 14;32),will u give him glory ? bow and worship him ?
jesusisisgod1 3 months ago
@jesusisisgod1
1Cor.11
[3] But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
As a wife worships her husband and as jesus worships hvhY so do I worship jesus.
Prayer is not the same thing as worship in the bible.
I worship jesus as my master and king but only hvhY hears my prayers
sixthheretic 3 months ago
jesusisisgod1 3 months ago
(1 TIM 3;15-16) " But if I am long in coming, this will make clear to you what behaviour is right for men in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and base of what is true.
3:16 And without argument, great is the secret of religion: He who was seen in the flesh, who was given God's approval in the spirit, was seen by the angels, of whom the good news was given among the nations, in whom the world had faith, who was taken up in glory.
jesusisisgod1 3 months ago
jesusisisgod1 3 months ago
@jesusisisgod
A lie in caps lock is still a lie. deut 5[7] Thou shalt have none other gods before me.
[8] Thou shalt not make thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the waters beneath the earth:
[9] Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me,
sixthheretic 3 months ago
@sixthheretic dear brother , you have to know God have not contridiction for reveal himself, the secret of God, even Christ (colo 2;2),you can not use one verse to delet other because all of them i show you support Lord Jesus is God also base on God's revelation,no body made it up. just because either you don't understand how they related it or you can not accept it. patient brother, i will show you more proof.
jesusisisgod1 3 months ago
@sixthheretic DEUT 5:7
God is one, but have father ,son and holy spirit together. God is gradual reveal himself. Jesus is God's word (john ;1-3)God's wisdom (Prov 8;1-30)God's image (colo 1;14) this is the mystery of holy trinity.why and how ? we cannot understand because it about God himself. God's word is God, like your word is you. God;s image is God=your image is you , not someone else.so, in OT, no matter what God say and do, Jesus and holy spirit are include (john 1;1-3)(Gen 1'1-3)
jesusisisgod1 3 months ago
@jesusisisgod1 If you can not understand it you should not believe it. 1Thes.5[21] Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
If you can not understand a thing you should not believe in a thing. seek and ye shall find ask and it shall be answered. hvhY will give the answers to who ever will ask for them. If you settle for senselessness then you believed a lie for the truth can be understood, only a lie contradicts its self. Even jesus told you to pray to the father. So do it.
sixthheretic 3 months ago
@sixthheretic dear brother, this is not the right attitude to study bible, if something you don't understand, you should ask father help you . if you still thinking "trinity" is wrong .no biblical support. may be you can correct me ,first , how could you explain two Sabbath of the Lord (matthe 12;7-8)(exo 20;8-12)?two creator ?(john 1;1-3)two God ? if you believe 2000 evil spirits possessed a man are possiable 2000=1(mark 5;12-13)why 3 spirit = one God are impossiable (matt 28;18-20)?
jesusisisgod1 3 months ago
2Tim2[15]Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.Prov28[9] He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be abomination.Rom1[23] And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man,Luke6[46] And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?Matt.6[9] After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
sixthheretic 3 months ago
so many evidents support Lord Jesus is Godthat same as father , why people don't understand ? Paul say because God become flesh beyound our understand (1 tim 3;15-16)Lord Jesus humble and empty himself become man (Phili 2;6-9) man lower than angel (heb 2;9) born of a woman,born under law (gala 4;4-5)man need God, man pray to God and glorify God,man being tempted by satan, man will died, pain,hungery,thirsty,grief,fear, Lord Jesus is 100 % God and man.
jesusisisgod1 3 months ago
@jesusisisgod1 Yeshua is the vessel for hvhY. We are to pray to the god inside yeshua which is hvhY. It never ever said to pray to the son we are to pray to the father only. Not is yeshua a vessel but so are we vessels because jesus said "the works that I do will ye do also and greater" If jesus is god then I can be greater then god. The trinity is a pagan belief added to christianity by the converted pagans in the third century. The cross is the symbol of the pagan perversion of christianity.
sixthheretic 3 months ago
@sixthheretic Dear brother, friendly remind you,Lord Jesus did say we pray to father also himself,(john 14;13-14)when Lord finish his misson on the cross, God exalted him and given to him the name which is greater than every name; So that at the name of Jesus every knee may be bent, of those in heaven and those on earth and those in the underworld, And that every tongue may give witness that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Lord Jesus being worship as father.
jesusisisgod1 3 months ago
@jesusisisgod1
Do you have any idea of what the greek word is for "word"? it is logos. logos is used as a blanket term for any type of knowledge or logic. In this particular instance the Prophecies were made flesh. The prophesies being refrenced are the prophecies concerning the comming redeemer. The cross is a lie by the way jesus was crusified on a pole. The cross was a pagan symbol adopted by all pagan christains that pray to the false idol they have made out of jesus christ.
sixthheretic 3 months ago
@sixthheretic When Lod Jesus got all the authority from father(matt 28;19)he is God that we can pray to him,as paul pray to him and he answer (2 Corint 12;8-9). you said"If jesus is god then I can be greater then God" brother, read the context,Lord Jesus is speaking as son of man,as he sad he is humble (matthe 11;29)he come to serve,not to be serve(matt 20;28) , he encourage us do more work to glorify father (john 15;8)
jesusisisgod1 3 months ago
@jesusisisgod1
1 cor 111.[3] But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
If the head of jesus is hvhY then I pray to hvhY
sixthheretic 3 months ago
@sixthheretic first time "God become flesh" happened in (Gen 18;1-33), Jesus is God bcome flesh (john ;1-3)(1;14)a son of man, a righteousness can save himself only but no other(Ezekie 14;20), same as lord Jesus if he just a sinless man, he can not save the world but himself alone. only God can take away the sin of the world (isaih 43;25)(Isaiah 45;20-23)(john 1;29)Jesus is second adam, head of the church and man and all things ,prophet, hight priest , king , Lord ,God,Lamb,light......
jesusisisgod1 3 months ago
"SON OF GOD" IS GOD
Lord Jesus is God one and only son (john 3;16)he have same glory with father ,he is not creature because all of the creatures worship him and father(Rev 11-14)Jesus say he is Lord of the sabbath (matthew 12;8) same as father (Exo 20;8-12)father is God , son is God , father is cat , son is cat , beef from beef , dog from dog, man from man, God from God,same essence this is the reason why Jews kill Jesus for he is "son of God" (john 5;17;18)(19;7)(matthew 26;63-66)(27;43)
jesusisisgod1 3 months ago
@jesusisisgod1 You are an idolater if you pray to the creature rather then the creator. Jesus was the vessel for hvhY not hvhY. Just as the ark of the coventent was taken from the jews when they began to worship the vessel (ark) rather then hvhY. Jesus commanded us to pray to the father not to pray to himself. So I will pray to the father. Jesus will refuse anyone that prays to him and not hvhY. Idol worship is idol worship no matter how perfect the creature you pray to is.
sixthheretic 3 months ago
@sixthheretic Dear brother, your idea come from your own thought ,not entirely from bible. first of all, bible did say Jesus is God (Isaiah 7;14)(9;6-7)(john 1;1-3)(mattew 1;22-23)(john 20;28)(Roman 9;5)(Heb 1;8-13)(1 john 5;20)(Rev 1;8)(Phil 2;6)father is Lord of Israel,Paul announce to all the church that Jesus is LORD as well (Phili 2;9-11) in old testament, Israel call up the name of the Lord will be save (Joe 2;31-32)NT,it apply to Lord Jesus (Roman 10;9-12)
jesusisisgod1 3 months ago
God claim he created all things by himself and alone (Isaiah 44;24) he never created any gods that like him (Isa 43;10-11)Solomon said God have a son that we don't even know his name (Prov 30;4) he is God's wisdom (Prov 1;21)image (colo 1;14)he was born of God in eternity before all things (Prov8;22-36) he created all things with God (8;30)(john 1;1-3)(1 corin 8;4-6)he have no begining (mic 5;2)(Heb 7;3)same divinity with father (colo 1;19)(2;9)same authority (matthew 28;19)(john 16;15)he is God
jesusisisgod1 3 months ago
dear brother in christ, I come from china, hope you understand my limited English, i have a same problem like you, get confuse of Trinity, but i went to the church learn and asked , the answer is "God is Trinity" i wonder why some of Christian disagree ? there are so many source from the website and the sunday school of the church, i found out they don't go visit they think they are holding the final answer.this is the truth brother.(sorry to say that)
jesusisisgod1 3 months ago
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@WhenDreamsTouchFire God did not become a man! Numbers 2:19 God is not a man, that he should lie, nor a son of man, that he should change his mind." Jesus ONLY receivd God's holy sprit in "full measure" at his baptism, he was not born with it! If Jesus is God, why did he pray to God the Father? You say: God cannot sin, he bcame a man....then you say God is not a man.? What do you man, I am confused.
fountainhead6 4 months ago
God also cannot be imagined. This leaves a question to weither we can concider the trinity monotheism or polytheism? .
Paganism is seeing the god you worship. While the fundamental of monotheism is to worship the unseen creator of heavens and earth.
By telling me Christ is God then you telling me God is a man hence here god is seen. No one shall see God and lives.
Give one verse in the bible where it says clearly by Christ " I am God worship me"?
TheSaffyone 5 months ago
@TheSaffyone The Spirit of Jesus was DIVINE not his carnal body.Precisely why he assumed/took that body with all its human limitations to show mankind THE WAY,How they too can become One ,return next to God,
You are not worshipping Jesus as you imagine he was AS MAN but only as part of the trinity.
"Me and My Father are One""havent you recognised Me all that time?..."then how do you say show us God?(He never said worship Me as a Man-body but only His Divine nature that is One with God)
delagrazia 4 months ago
@delagrazia
If you pray to jesus because of
"I and my father are one"
then you will have to pray to me as well since I am one with hvhY and jesus.
John.17
[21] That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
sixthheretic 4 months ago
@delagrazia This leaves the question of God the father became god the son. Here we have the term god the son. Yes surely it means god the son is God the father if God is one. So God the father is god the son and the same person?
if not then we have 3 gods in the trinity. If we only have one God then you are saying God the father became a man hence God is seen as a man.
if yes then 3 persons means 3 personalities hence the one God concepts is also broken.
Either ways 3 persons means 3 gods
TheSaffyone 4 months ago
@TheSaff You cannot see God in all his glory In His entiretyThats what is ment by..we cannot see God.But we can see God taking different forms as there is an ex in the old testament too.When God takes a form He does not lessen,nor does it mean at that moment He is only in that form(omnipresent)
The exterior aspect of Jesus is mattterOnly few could see the divinity in Him.The Divine is One and undivided eventhough if He is in Christ That s an attribute of God.Same with men achieving deification
delagrazia 4 months ago
@delagrazia I will just have to repeat what sixthheretic said. If you pray to jesus because of " I and my father are one" then might as well pray to all Christians and allow me to say and Muslims too.
TheSaffyone 4 months ago
@TheSaffyone you mean to THOSE christians that have achieved deification (and are One with God)Those are very few. When they have achieved that state they are One in Spirit,same essence with God.We pray to that One essence (not to the separate ppl (personalities) that achieved that state or their body that was carnal,)
delagrazia 4 months ago
@delagrazia I want a clear passage from the bible in context that says we cannot see God in his full glory and that we can see God in his human image. If you say God created man in his own image, I guess here God is too big to fit to earth then ops, he became a smaller version. Seeing Christ is basically seeing God hence it is a contradiction to the bible where it says no man shall see God and lives.
TheSaffyone 4 months ago
@TheSaffyone
God is not to be made in the image of a man. Jesus was the perfect vessel for hvhY as we are also vessels for him. No man has seen hvhY at any time.You are an idolater. Plain and simple.
sixthheretic 4 months ago
@sixthheretic I am not an idolater and you are mistaken plain and simple. In Islam we don't believe God created man in his own image. Refer to Surah 112 of the Quran where it states there is nothing near or compartive to God. We cannot not imagine him means we don't put him in the mind and form imagination of the lord. We don't imagine God, he is way above the imagination.
The bible says god created man in his own image and I was answering a person based on his logic.
TheSaffyone 4 months ago
@TheSaffyone
Sorry. this coment was ment for delagrazia. replied to the wrong comment
sixthheretic 4 months ago
@sixthheretic I thought it was a mistaken identity. No offense is taken.
TheSaffyone 4 months ago
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God claim he created all things by himself and alone (Isaiah 44;24) he never created any gods that like him (Isa 43;10-11)Solomon said God have a son that we don't even know his name (Prov 30;4) he is God's wisdom (Prov 1;21)image (colo 1;14)he was born of God in eternity before all things (Prov8;22-36) he created all things with God (8;30)(john 1;1-3)(1 corin 8;4-6)he have no begining (mic 5;2)(Heb 7;3)same divinity with father (colo 1;19)(2;9)same authority (matthew 28;19)(john 16;15 )
jesusisisgod1 3 months ago
@TheSaffyone 3persons does not mean 3Gods if there is ONE essence.In Spirit Jesus is One with God.Even so,Jesus was created by God.Men achieiving theosis become One in essence with God -eternal immortal,share all his attributes except the uncreatedness (because man was created .Jesus also)If you deny that Jesus is one with God you deny the entire Christian doctrine of deification which is the basis of Christianity.We worship ONE God essence,So if a saint is deified his essence is One with God
delagrazia 4 months ago
@delagrazia
oh and by the way praying to three different "persons" is praying to three separate gods. and if you pray to more then one god you worship a pantheon. you are an idolater.
sixthheretic 4 months ago
@TheSaff someone before me gave u a more concise answer.Christian sites also explain the matter very well.and old church fathers books.As far as Hindus.If they worship Gods different attributes-aspects as...separate from the whole thats idolatry.SO 1A certain aspect of God for what it represents(ex.war,death) 2/the embodiment of those partial aspects in specific persons-gods as many hindus practically do)We worship One essence+Will Jesus as His mission on earth is the Way to the Father
delagrazia 4 months ago
@TheSaffyone No independent Will His power is from the Father coz they are One in essence+Will.Hindu gods have different charachteristics.But Krishna is probably the equivalent of Christ. Gods son-embodiment.
What does KOR.A'8.5-6 say?we believe in the One father from where all comes
delagrazia 4 months ago
@WhenDreamsTouchFire
I am in the process of finishing a website called monotheists[.]info . please remove the [] . I would appreciate if you register because that's would help me in testing. You will have a freedom to post unlimited words. The main purpose of the website is to debate monothesim.
One simple logic. What distingush the concept of God in trinity to the concept of God in hinduism? they both claim to worship the one God yet making partners with him. God has no partners
TheSaffyone 5 months ago
@WhenDreamsTouchFire
Jesus is lord of all jesus is just not the hvhY. Jesus told us to pray to the father and jesus said why callest me thou lord and do not the things which I say unto you
sixthheretic 5 months ago
@sixthheretic
If jesus was your lord you would pray to the father as he told you to.
sixthheretic 5 months ago
@WhenDreamsTouchFire
hvhY did not become Man. It did not happen. Jesus is not hvhY. I do not pray to jesus I pray to hvhY only.
sixthheretic 5 months ago
@WhenDreamsTouchFire Allah is what you call the father. How do you call worshiping God an idol worshiping, the only one God and there is no other God besides him. His the creator of heavens and earth.
Man owrshiping man cannot be understood anything but idol worshiping. Christ is a man. A special prophet but by no chance he is God.
Don't imagine God means don't imagine God. Your bible tells you as sixtheretic gave you enough evidences such as making God a man is a sin.
God is one
TheSaffyone 5 months ago
@WhenDreamsTouchFire
you do realize that jesus is a man and you think he is god so therefore you are an idolater. Just wanted to be clear on what I was trying to convey to you. If you pray to a man as if he is God you comit idolartry. Romans 1:23 applies to you making jesus God.
sixthheretic 6 months ago
@WhenDreamsTouchFire
Anyone who makes god a man commits idolatry.
Rom.1
[23] And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man,
sixthheretic 6 months ago
@WhenDreamsTouchFire
So if we wont be gods and we are one with God why would you say that jesus is god just because he is one with god like we are. If jesus is God then we are gods too. If we are not gods then neither can jesus be God. Why dont we just do what jesus says and pray only to the father and stop praying to the son. "Our Father which art in heaven hallowed be THY (your) NAME (which is hvhY)"
sixthheretic 6 months ago
@WhenDreamsTouchFire
So according to your logic once we become one with god then we will be Gods just like jesus is God right?
sixthheretic 6 months ago
@WhenDreamsTouchFire
The baptisum was when jesus recieved the holy spirit. That is what the bible says and I am not going to add to it. Before the baptisum jesus had no holy spirit and after he had the holy spirit.
sixthheretic 6 months ago
@WhenDreamsTouchFire
You do realize that we are also one with god and jesus right?
John.17
[21] That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
Does that make me god too if I am one with jesus and God?
sixthheretic 6 months ago
@WhenDreamsTouchFire
There is only one
"god" and it is not jesus. For jesus to us to pray only to the father. So I pray only to the father. Worship means awe reverance and respect. So I could say my wife worships me I worship my boss just as I worship god and jesus. But only hvhY do I love with all of my heart soul mind and strength for only hvhY is my "god"
sixthheretic 6 months ago
@WhenDreamsTouchFire
If you pray to yeshua rather then hvhY you commit Idolatry.
sixthheretic 6 months ago
What is Christian universalized teaching?
TruthAtlas 6 months ago
Oh, universal life...
TruthAtlas 6 months ago
I am Muslim and I support your view of God. It is exactly Islamic. Trinity is idol worshiping. Why don't you research Islam? it is the answer
TheSaffyone 6 months ago
@TheSaffyone
I only follow the bible and think the quaran is a false teaching.
sixthheretic 6 months ago
@sixthheretic I hope you find happiness in what you believe in. To me the Quran is 100% the word of God, the creator of heavens and earth. All what I can say, I hope you will one day change your mind. Thank you for answering my queries.
TheSaffyone 6 months ago
@TheSaffyone
Sally I am greatful for your openess and your willingness to sahre your faith. I am very bunt with my beliefs and I hope I didnt offend you.
sixthheretic 6 months ago
@sixthheretic I am not offended at all, thesea are our differences. To be honest I had stero typed Christians for being believers of a trinity. I was surprised to find a group in Christianity that are believing in the True One God. We worship the same God in different rituals. I cannot say that to Catholics for example.
Jews are also believers in the One True God.
You are almost a Muslim the way you acknowldge God. Between you and Islam is believing in the prophethood of Mohamed.
Peace
TheSaffyone 6 months ago
@TheSaffyone
That is the only problem that I have with islam is that they follow mohamed. I definatly have no problems with you. thanks for your comment you should follow me on facebook.
sixthheretic 6 months ago
@sixthheretic With the will of God, I will certainly joing you in facebook.
Repeating what you said only problem that I have with Islam that they follow Mohamed. Is there a theological problem with Prophet Mohamed ex anti Christ?
You don't have to answer but I would love to debate it.
Peace
TheSaffyone 6 months ago
@TheSaffyone Well we would need a forum that is less limiting then the comment section on youtube
but I would be down for that
sixthheretic 6 months ago
@sixthheretic I am a web developer on LAMP. Give me a few months after I finish with some websites I got, with God will I will make a forum specifically for this purpose. We could start something of partnership in business. If we manage to make this website famous then there is money to be made.
Peace
TheSaffyone 6 months ago
@TheSaffyone Sounds like fun
sixthheretic 6 months ago
He looks like Jesus!!
VictoryInJesus454 7 months ago
(Quran, 5:72)
Allah said: Indeed, they have disbelieved who have said, “God is the Messiah (Jesus), son of Mary.” The Messiah said, “Children of Israel, worship God, my Lord and your Lord. Whoever associates partners in worship with God, then God has forbidden Paradise for him, and his home is the Fire (Hell). For the wrongdoers, there will be no helpers.”
4islam3 8 months ago
(Quran, 5:73-75)
Allah said: Indeed, they disbelieve who say, “God is the third of three (in a trinity),” when there is no god but one God. If they desist not from what they say, truly, a painful punishment will befall the disbelievers among them. Would they not rather repent to God and ask His forgiveness? For God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. The Messiah (Jesus), son of Mary, was no more than a messenger...
4islam3 8 months ago
Muslims believe in one, unique, incomparable God, Who has no son nor partner, and that none has the right to be worshipped but Him alone. He is the true God, and every other deity is false. He has the most magnificent names and sublime perfect attributes. No one shares His divinity, nor His attributes.God describes Himself: Allah said: Say, “He is God, the One. God, to Whom the creatures turn for their needs. He begets not, nor was He begotten, and there is none like Him.” (Quran, 112:1-4)
4islam3 8 months ago
@4islam3
Sorry I am not islamic. Your quran quote doesnt mean much to me. But I dont believe that yeshua is hvhY so we got that in common.
sixthheretic 8 months ago
sorry
The father and I are one remeber that ? you are wrong
TheMike26130 8 months ago
@TheMike26130
john 14:12 The works that I do shall you do also and greater works then these shall ye do remember that. Can I do greater works then hvhY?
john 17:20-21 Also jesus also said that we are also one with him as he is one with the father does that also make us hvhY?
sixthheretic 8 months ago
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@sixthheretic
Quran 4:171
In the Name of Allah, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful
O People of the Scripture, do not commit excess in your religion or say about Allah except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, was but a messenger of Allah and His word which He directed to Mary and a soul [created at a command] from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers. (cont.)
4islam3 8 months ago
@sixthheretic
Quran 4:171 (cont)
and say not, Three. Desist, it is better for you; Allah is only one Allah; far be It from His glory that He should have a son, whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth is His, and Allah is sufficient for a Protector.
4islam3 8 months ago
youtube SEARCH this,,,,Poem About Cross Worship
ghs224 8 months ago
there is a difference between what YOU BELIEVE and what the Bible teaches.
davidgold1976 9 months ago
@davidgold1976
Ok well thank you for shareing your OPINION but the bible teachs if you pray to anything other then hwhY you commit idolatry. But Good luck with you praying to a man.
sixthheretic 9 months ago
I am a male Human,... So if I am to have a son in the future then that son of mine is no less Human than I am,... He is my only begotten son & like me he IS Human,... No more, no less just as Gods Son is God, no more, no less.
rangoon03 9 months ago
@rangoon03
Not really because John.4[24] God is a Spirit:
If jesus were god he would be made of spirit by your logic. But instead the bible tells us that jesus recieved the holy spirit at his baptisum John.1[32] ...I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him. If he was God why would he recieve the holy spirit when he was thirty. Or was he not God until he recieved the holy spirit. More likely he was a a man with out sin that recieved the holy spirit from God.
sixthheretic 9 months ago
I've liked a few of your vids --so glad to hear that you're not a modalist or trinitarian! I'm not familiar with CULT though. 2:27 great point about the 2 wills. I'd like to ask 2 questions...1) Is the Tanakh you ruler by which you measure everything including the writings of the apostles....what you use to "prove all things whether they're told to you by men or angels? 2)where in the Tanakh does it prophecy that the Messiah will be born of a literal virgin?
BornInTzyon 9 months ago
@BornInTzyon
Truth can not contradict truth so I believe both the "old" and "new" Teastament can not contradict unless the truth is quoted and supplanted by a greater truth i.e. Eye for an eye and turn the other cheek. as for your virgin question the word for virgin in the tanakh mean maiden or young unwed woman. In that time a young unwed woman was synonamous with a virgin but they did not have a separation of sex and marriage like our culture does today. Sex is marrage in the bible.1cor6:16
sixthheretic 9 months ago
@sixthheretic Actually throughout scripture "almah" refers to both married & unmarried women (see Is 7 & 8 where betulah refers to a literal virgin and isn't the word used in Is 7 which christians typically call a messianic prophecy though it has nothing at all to do with Yeshua or a literal virgin.. So where in the Tanakh does it predict a literal virgin birth of a messiah as is claimed in Matt & Luke?? Sex is not marriage in the bible... see Gen 34 for example.
BornInTzyon 9 months ago
@BornInTzyon sex was supposed to be marriage even in the torah. Deuteronomy 22:28-29
As for your alma refrence you are right however Alma can also be a virgin. The prophesys that predate the bible such as the prophecies in the constellation virgo or what it is also refrenced as (in the hebrew) Bethula do make refrences to the redeemer who is coming to save all men from sin and he shall be born of a virgin..
sixthheretic 9 months ago
@sixthheretic Sex wasn't equal to marriage; if it were, every prostitute or concubine would've been considered a wife yet they weren't. Sex was however the consummation of every marriage covenant.Almah refers to a young woman whether literal virgin or not. Betulah is used strictly for virgin. This word Betulah is not used in Is 7 which speaks of a non virgin which can easily be seen by reading Is 7 & 8 in context. There is no precedent for a literal virgin birth. That comes from pagan cultures.
BornInTzyon 9 months ago
@BornInTzyon If you say so
sixthheretic 9 months ago
Man you've already half Christian and Half Muslim. If you read the Quran chapter 19: Marry (the mother of Jesus Christ), you will believe me.
aladdeen1 9 months ago
NO IDOL WORSHIP IN ISLAM WORSHIP GOD (ALLAH) DIRECTLY WITH NO INTERCESSOR THAT IS THE TRUE RELIGION, THE RELIGION OF ALL THE PROPHETS PEACE BEUPON THEM ALL.
REPENTANCETOALLAH 9 months ago
@wayofsalaf I wouldn't say "exactly". I can only speak for myself. I believe He is still the Son of God, died on the cross and rose again for the sin of mankind, and believe the bible is the truth. We just don't agree on Him being God.
chassr1 10 months ago
@chassr1
I dont think muslims believe that yeshua Died on the Cross like we do.
sixthheretic 10 months ago
@sixthheretic I think they believe someone else went to the cross in His place. I could be wrong.
chassr1 10 months ago
@chassr1
I have no Idea
sixthheretic 10 months ago
Yayyyy! Unitarian Christian! Fantastic!
tasneefm 10 months ago
@tasneefm
Yes I am
sixthheretic 10 months ago
@apopyalips
May hwhY bless you to. if we worship the same god then we are truely borthers in the name of yeshua who is the son of hwhY
sixthheretic 10 months ago
ONE THING FORSURE!!! YESHUA WAS NOT BEING CRUCIFIED BECAUSE HE IS A GOOD RABBI,PROPHET..nor BECAUSE HE WAS A NOBLE TEACHER ,NOR FOR HE WAS BEING THE SON OF GOD,CUZ DAVID ,GIDEON ,SHLOMO WERE ALSO THE SON OF GOD..BUT BECAUSE HE VEHEMENTLY PROCLAIM HIMSELF AS THE ETERNAL FATHER WHO COMES IN FLESH...REMEMBER THE VERSE THAT SAYS ...BEFORE AVRAHAM WAS I AM...AFTER THAT THE YEHUDIM WANTED TO KILL HIM WITH STONES...IN NUTSHELL...YOU ENDUP CONTRADICTING YERSELF IN AND OUT MISTEPRETING BIBLE
sayaretmatkal80 11 months ago
@sayaretmatkal80 Where did yeshua claim to be the eternal hwhY?
as for before abraham I am the word in the greek is protos which can be translated as first in rank so yes yeshua has a higher rank then abraham. but that doesnt mean he exsisted before abraham. No where did jesus ever say to pray to himself but instead he said to pray to the father. Our father who art in heaven. 1 cor 11:3 woman has lees authority then man, man less then yeshua and yeshua less then God. btw lay off the caps lock
sixthheretic 11 months ago
@sixthheretic
you havent answer my question!!!!why was Yeshua Being crucified???..and by the way dont get me wrong I dont abide trinity doctrine..number of believers were put to death for For following Yeshua,they're labled heretic cult by many elders of Yehudim...
sayaretmatkal80 11 months ago
@sayaretmatkal80
Yeshua was being crusified for claiming to be the messiah which means annointed one or the man annointed by hwhY
sixthheretic 11 months ago
@sixthheretic
ha ha ha you are a liar!!..show me the verse!!!david ,shlomo was also a mosiach(the anointed one),but they were not rebuked with death penalty by his own people!!!.EVEN BAR KOBACH was claimed to be mosiach...but he died in his oldage...IF YOU WONT ADMIT THAT YAHUSHUA IS ""HE",YOU WILL DIE IN YOUR SINS....DONT EXPECT TO MUCH FROM THE BIBLE THAT IT WOULD PROVIDE YOU WITH YOUR STANDART COMMON SENSE,IT'S ABOUT HIS SENSE,NOT YOURS,,USE THE PARADOXAL WAY OF THINKING WHEN READ BIBLE
sayaretmatkal80 11 months ago
@sayaretmatkal80
No you are the lair. You pray to a man then you commit idolatry. That is it and that is all. You are an idol worshiper. hwhY will not punish me for praying only to him. But he will punish those that pray to the images of men or animals or creeping things. Yeshua is a man and you pray to him.
sixthheretic 11 months ago
@sixthheretic
your premises is still way too lame to deny Yeshua's deity!!..remember Yeshua Is A Rock,...and He could Be a stumbling Rock at anytime for any one who would try to mangle and twist G-d 's Words In the bible
sayaretmatkal80 11 months ago
@sayaretmatkal80
You want to pray to corruptable man and commit idol worship you go for it. But I will not pray to any man I will only pray to hwhY
sixthheretic 11 months ago
@sixthheretic
what bible do you read? if you want to deny Yeshua 's deity.you need to delete those passages which show His Persecutions by those Yehudim,You need to delete the verse that admit Him Being Cruciefied.other wise you ll end up labled false teacher..in the eyes of ortodhox jews Yeshua was nothing but a false prophet who blesphemously claim to be The Deity.The Jews Would not even remember his name no more.They altered his name to "Yoske".understanding Yeshua is so hard isnt it?
sayaretmatkal80 11 months ago
@sayaretmatkal80
I read the king james version. As for you if you want to think that yeshua is a diety then you must delete the 1st and 2nd of the 10 commandments. I do believe that yeshua was crusified and died and that hwhY raised him from the dead and we are to serve him as our king and do as our king commands and when he said to pray to the father then I will pray to the father and not the son.
sixthheretic 11 months ago
@sixthheretic
Where did yeshua claim to be the eternal hwhY?
======================================
you may twist the words of the bible here and there...post me all you can numbers of potential verses!!
but you cant deny Him Being Crucified...show ME THAT YESHUA WAS NEVER BEING CRUCIFIED!!!..WHAT VERSE YOU THOUGHT MIGHT SUPPORT YOUR IDEA
sayaretmatkal80 11 months ago
@sayaretmatkal80
yeshua was crusified for claiming to be the messiah. The messiah is not hwhY. Yeshua is my king and master but I pray only to hwhY
1Cor.11[3] But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
sixthheretic 11 months ago
@sixthheretic
ha ha ha ..believe me man,,,you are just a confused theologian,you are only pursuing fortune and fame,just like all the rest of those atheist authors,..tell me ,you wanne be famous like justin bieber?..learn how to dance,stop preaching lies!
sayaretmatkal80 11 months ago
@sayaretmatkal80
you are entitled to your oppinion
sixthheretic 11 months ago
@sixthheretic
YESHUA SAID TO PILATE,THAT "HIS KINGDOM..*EMPHASIZE "HIS".IS THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN!!...NOT OF THE EARTH"...WOW...KINGDOM OF HEAVEN!!!???..HIS????DONT YOU THINK THAT IT BELONGS ONLY TO THE ALMIGHTY????.IF THE KINGDOM HEAVEN IS "HIS"..THAT MEANS YESHUA ESSENSELY /.SPIRITUALY IS THE G-D THAT OWNS THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN..
sayaretmatkal80 11 months ago
@sayaretmatkal80
hwhY gave dominion of the heavens and the earth to his son yeshua. But until you find me a verse that says pray to yeshua then I am going to pray to hwhY who is My father in heaven. You pray to anything othewr then hwhY you commit idol worship
sixthheretic 11 months ago
@sayaretmatkal80 Which contradicts Lk 1:32 "He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David,"
So which is His kingdom Heaven or earth? Or do you think David is God also? You did refer to him (David) as the messiah, and you think messiah means God in man's skin. Cyrus of Persia was also called "the annointed one" (messiah) by God. So his claim as son of god, therefore a god man, must have been true. NOT!
chassr1 11 months ago
@sayaretmatk Furthermore you are ignoring the FACT there are three heavens as stated by Paul (2 Cor 12:2)! Which Heaven was Christ refering to? Which does God rule? Christ said "His kingdom was not of this world" He did not say it's heaven! Changing words to make a point is still lying! Could Christ have been referring to a future world He would rule over, like after He returns (as promised in Luke)? What does the bible mean by Christ standing at the right side of God? How many gods do you have?
chassr1 11 months ago
@sixthheretic This is referring 2 Jesus: ISAIAH 9:6-7. THE MIGHTY GOD!!! Jesus is the Word in JOHN 1:1-34 + the Word became flesh + dwelt among us!!! These Scriptures show clearly that Jesus is both God + eternal in nature + there4 has always been unlike Abraham who was created by the Word who is Jesus!!!
The3in1trinity 10 months ago
Read the Hebrew to Is 9:6. Since I know you won't I'll show you.
Is 9:6- כי ילד ילד לנו בן נתן לנו ותהי המשרה על שכמו ויקרא שמו פלא יועץ אל גבור אביעד שָׂר שלום׃
Hebrew Bible
Translation (with help from Strongs for mispelled words):
That a child we had a son gave us And the position on the shoulder and called the name magic consultant to the mighty eternal minster peace:
Notice the part that says "and called the name magic consultant of the Mighty" i.e mediator of God
chassr1 10 months ago
@chassr1 I have read ISAIAH 9:6-7. If u had looked at some of my comments 2 @sixthheretic + other ppl u would c that i quote this Scripture often. There4 i have obviously read the Scripture u think i wouldn't read. Also i use Strong's Concordance with Hebrew + Greek Lexicon. U r clearly putting words such as "magic consultant of the Mighty" when they clearly r not there. DON'T TRY 2 DISTORT WHAT IS CLEARLY STATED!!! u R ONLY FOOLING URSELF WHEN U EVEN DISTORT WHAT THE HEBREW LEXICON SAYS. ..
The3in1trinity 9 months ago
That is the Hebrew of Is 9:6 from the Hebrew Bible, not something I wrote. All I did was go to a site and translated it word for word from hebrew to english with the help of strongs for the two words that are misspelled. I have distorted nothing! I don't know why it uses the word "magic", but if you notice strongs translates it as "wonderful", not really much of a difference brother! The point is still that in Is 9:6 He's not called God, but "wonderful counselor of the Mighty". Translate it!
chassr1 9 months ago
The word that Strong tranlated to El or God is אֵ֣ל. But when I translated it, it is "to" not El. So my only conclusion is that "Mighty God" in Is 9:6 is a translation error or someone knowingly changed it not counting on the hebrew being so easy to translate in the future. The latter is a horrible thought so I hope it was an honest mistake, but there have been many changes to the Bible by the trinitarians in order to push thier false doctrine. Turn to the Father and He will answer all things.
chassr1 9 months ago
@The3in1trinity On a side note Strong's Concordance has a lot of different words that are translated from "אֵ֣ל" (Strong's #408-413). How do you know which one to use when translating the hebrew? "To" is what I get when I translate that word.
chassr1 9 months ago
@chassr1 If u use a Strong's Concordance then u would realise by the word + number what it is referring 2. Can u explain what the point is u r trying 2 make as u have lost me? Thanks...
The3in1trinity 9 months ago
In Hebrew Gematria the sum of letters of שִׁלֻּשׁ אֱלֹהַּ-[shillush eloah]-"Trinity God" or
שִׂלֻּשׁ הָאֵל-[shillush hael]-"Trinity Of The God" is equal to 666 in both cases.
But the sum of letters of the Hebrew אֱלֹהַּ-[eloah] or Aramaic אֱלָהּ-[elah] or Arabic اله-[ilah] meaning "God" is equal to 36, but it's known that adding together from 1 to 36 (1+2+3+...36) is equal to 666 too. Also Sum of the letters of Aramaic word שַׁמְשׁוּ -[shamshu] "sun" is equal to 666.
776AD 11 months ago
@776AD
Well that is good to know. Thank you for shareing
sixthheretic 11 months ago
The 1st commandment isn't being broken when we worship Jesus because Jesus is the Son of God. God is Father, Son + Holy Spirit.
The3in1trinity 11 months ago
@The3in1trinity
Just keep telling yourself that. I am going to be sure and only love God with all my heart soul mind and strength. God will never punish me for that. He will however send me to a lake of fire if I love and worship a man more then I love God
sixthheretic 11 months ago
@sixthheretic It's God's Inspired Word the Bible that shows me that Jesus is the Son of God + is entitled 2 receive worship: 1 JOHN 1-34. PHILIPPIANS 2:5-11. JOHN 1-26. ISAIAH 9:6-7. REVELATION 5:12-14.
The3in1trinity 11 months ago
@The3in1trinity
Jesus is the son of God and is worthy of worship but it is not the type of worship you think it is. Jesus is the son of God like adam was the son of God (Luke.3[38]) surely you dont think that adam is god too? As for worship the word is proskune and it means to kiss the hand. I would kiss jesus`s hand but to venerate I look to the word "sebomai"
Matt.15[9] But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
Mark.71[7] "ditto"
sixthheretic 11 months ago
@sixthheretic Unless u don't believe ALL Scripture is Inspired by God the Holy Spirit, then JOHN 1:1-34 + JOHN 14:11-26 show that Jesus is the Son of God. Adam was a son of God. Jesus is the only Begotten of the Father. Adam was created just like u + me. PHILIPPIANS 2:5-11 shows who Jesus is. I have given u this Scripture b4. There's no getting away from the fact that Jesus is the Son of God. ISAIAH 9:6-7 is another Scripture i have previously given u.
The3in1trinity 11 months ago
@The3in1trinity Yeah I have no doubt that jesus is the son of God. But I will only worship the father not jesus. To worship a man as if he is hwhY is idolatry. All scripture when properly interprted has no contradictions. To believe that jesus is hwhY contradicts the first commandment exodus 20:3-6 and romans 1:23 and jesus who showed us how to pray. our FATHER never did jesus say to pray to him. The head of the woman is the man the head of the man is jesus and the head of jesus is hwhY 1cor11:3
sixthheretic 11 months ago
@sixthheretic The 1st Commandment ISN'T contradicted by worshipping Jesus. God is Father, Son + Holy Spirit. 1 God in 3 persons. ISAIAH 9:6-7 IS BOTH JESUS + THE MIGHTY GOD. JOHN 1:1-34 shows Jesus is the Word that was WITH God + WAS God, + the Word became flesh + dwelt amongst us. This shows God in the form of Jesus the Son of God died 4 our sins. JOHN 5:23-29. PHILIPPIANS 2:5-11. ONLY GOD RECEIVES WORSHIP. This is Y Jesus WILL receive worship...
The3in1trinity 10 months ago
@sixthheretic Jesus is God in the flesh. Jesus was showing the Disciples HOW 2 pray. Jesus also subjected Himself 2 the Father. MATTHEW 3:11-17. No disrespect, but ur logic in regards 2 y Jesus the Son needed 2 pray is similar 2 Muslims who can't understand that Jesus emptied Himself of His power + relied on His Father totally. God the Holy Spirit is the author of Scripture + God the Holy Spirit doesn't contradict the Son + the Son doesn't contradict the Father. Jesus is still God the Son...
The3in1trinity 10 months ago
@The3in1trinity
Just because you say that jesus was hwhY in the flesh does not make it so. If jesus was showing the disciples how to pray and he said to pray to the father why do you pray to the son? And where in the bible does it say that jesus emptied him self of power? Jesus never had his own power all the powe