awesome videos dude im sick of the knife fight training videos that always emply the attacker is gonna let you know he has a knife and isabout to stab you... lol gives me the impression the only fights they been in is going from white belt to yellow and so on lol
@MrFrancobelli it depends on the situation and your self. for example if the attacker was to go head on ''HEY IM GONNA STAB YOU GET READY'' krav maga might work but that wont ever happen lol chances are you wont expect it and it only takes a second to get stabbed.
Be careful about this video too. 600 years ago, they weren't using "Folsum Prison" style knife attacks. Every ex-con is familiar with this attack & this is how you are most likely to be attacked today. See @ 1:24, 1:45, 1:53, and 2:53. In each of these attacks, the empty hand leads & grabs the target 1st, followed by repeated short quick stabs to the flank.
The attacks in the last 2 examples looked more similar to the traditional karate attacks than to the attacks @ the times I listed above.
@bae313 If you're saying that back in the old days nobody grabbed the victim and then stabbed him, you would be wrong. Contemporary artwork shows that kind of attack was common and most of the old manuals show many defenses against that style of attack. See for instance Fiore and Marozzo. People don't do things now any differently than they did years ago.
@haffoc BLAH, BLAH, BLAH!!! Why don't you show us 1 technique where your glorious olden day techniques show us how you defend the Folsum Prison style attack. I noticed you weren't able to defend my comments on how the techniques at the end of your video closely resembled the "karate" 1 step techniques you commented negatively on @ the beginning of your video.
Also, if your system doesn't put a huge premium on situational awareness your students will never be ready to defend the folsum attack.
@bae313 Sorry, Bae, you're not the expert you pretend to be. Most of us who are serious about the problem of knife defense are willing to admit there's a lot we don't know and that none of us are experts. However, one thing is perfectly clear: this "Folsom prison" attack is nothing new. It's been around a long time. I've told you where to look for solutions to it. Why don't you check those sources? A quick google search will turn up the pdf to Achille Marozzo's unarmed defenses.
@haffoc 1 question for you. How many knife fights have you been in? How many times have you cut another person in a fight? How many scars do you carry as a result of a fight that involved a knife? I'll bet your answers are: none, none & none. My expertise does not come from what I read in a manual & practice in my suburban backyard, my expertise came from testing what I learned in classes & books in the streets & bars where bikers & soldiers look for trouble. I know what works & doesn't.
@haffoc Unfortunately, you will stabbed again if you have contact with a thug who wants to stab you and you use your current stuff. 9 times I have faced a knife with my empty hands & my hands, arms & even my left leg have been cut, BUT my torso, neck and head have never been cut and I have never been stabbed. Also, what in the hell are you gonna do against an ambush attack? In all the attacks you guys do, the knife is displayed prior to the attack and there is always a fair amount of seperation.
@haffoc ROTFLMAO!!! I followed the advice & found the text. This guy taught fencing back when challenges were formally issued & formally responded to. We are talking "dueling". Most of the text concerns swords and shields. This applies to fighting today? When & by whom do you think you are going to be attacked where this stuff will apply??? Does Christopher Columbus live in your neighborhood? Good luck when a guy who has made 2 trips to the pen for violent crimes breaks into your house!
@bae313 Actually, I know people who have used stuff similar to what you see in the old manuals like Fiore and Marozzo against real knifers. Two of them were corrections officers defending themselves against inmate assaults.
@haffoc Here's some expert's comments about your guy's dagger work: Marozzo shows a condensed version of the types of moves used in earlier Italian systems. Dei Liberi showed over 100 individual techniques which Marozzo distills down to 22 techniques. While Fiore shows multiple counters to all of his moves, Marozzo’s work is very “optimistic” about techniques working as planned & the “counter for counter” idea is not explored.
Nice style, good luck on the day you face an actual thug.
@haffoc You want me to pay attention??? In the comment you have replied to, I say, "Dei Liberi showed over 100 individual techniques which Marozzo distills down to 22 techniques". From my statement, it is obvious that Marossa got his techniques from Liberi. The problem is that Marozzo leaves out all the counters you could incur and how to deal with them, thus "Marozzo’s work is very “optimistic”", as in wishful thinking. or techniques for simpletons, or for those who can't pay attention.
@haffoc Watch these vid to see the type of training you need to do to see if your techniques will hold up. 1. Defending a Knife Attack. 2. Reality of trying to defend against a committed knife attack.
In a real fight the attacker isn't gonna attack & leave that hand out there, he is gonna retract & attack again while running you over. Train for a real fight, that bs you are doing won’t hold up to actual combat.
Stop practicing self-perfection and start training for self-preservation.
@bae313 "the attacker isn't gonna leave the hand out there ..." Yes, absolutely true. If you look at all the old material, it's all about getting control of the attacker's arm and working from there. That's what sets the old material apart from what many modern "experts" tell people.
@haffoc You better add some realistic training like the stuff shown in the videos I suggested. You really need to learn that the techniques I saw you performing are not going to hold up against a modern, ongoing, committed, ruthless, onslaught. You are not going to control the arm using the stufff you are using specifically because the attacker isn't going to leave the arm out there as you try to control it. He is going to counter as Fiore explored but Marozzo left out.
true that the knife attack is something different from what they show, but there is no harm learning some "technics to avoid knife stabbing" in the case if some drunk and wasted guy tries to stab you :D
Good video makes some good points. Incredible to think though that with the advances in modern martial arts and combatives that have taken place over the last 20 years some people (infact MANY people) still train bullshit arts in a bullshit fashion, and/or still believe they will be able to access their gun/weapon in the midst of a frenzied determined real world knife attack. The so called "masters" of these bullshit arts should be held liable for their bullshit teaching and lies
Great Video! But there was one part about none traditional martial arts and one of the videos was of Paul Vunak. That was a demonstration of why traditional knife defenses do not work and the reality of a knife attack by having someone attack you with a marker so you can see how many times you get "cut". If you would like to explain how Paul Vunak does NOT know what he is talking about in regards to knife fighting it would be greatly appreciated :)
@darthlordofthesith9 All due respect to Paul, but where he's gone astray IMO is that the attack he shows is unrealistic. People don't attack like that in real life. Because they attack in real life with full commitment as depicted in these videos, some defenses (many of them "traditional" and often forgotten) can save your life.
@darthlordofthesith9 Paul Vunak was/is in many ways a pioneer in terms of reality thinking/training when it comes to knife,and did an excellent job of showing what many of the traditional arts did wrong and how they could get you killed.However,much of his material is directed more at knife fighting(knife vs knife)than knife attack(empty hand vs knife).In his knife attack material the "knifer" tends to act like a kick boxer,which is RIDICULOUS.He does urge you to just run away though,good advice
@Sheik06 No I'm not saying that only HEMA works against the knife. Lots of stuff from ASA works too. Problem with ASA is that what works is often mingled with stuff that doesn't work so that it's really had to figure out in ASA systems what's real and what's not. The difference between what you find in the HEMA manuals and most ASA systems is that the HEMA stuff is much simpler and better presented.
One of the common problems in most martial arts is that too many are concerned on how to do a technique instead of being focused on how one would be realistically attacked. Once one has their feet firmly planted in reality, one can train in some realistic defenses against any type of attack. However, if you start with something less than realistic, then you will end up with a response that is the same.
GIGO, garbage in, garbage out. An old computer term that applies.
The segment you used to showing the Guided Chaos elevator attack was actually making your point that you cannot use grappling against a knife attack and was not showing it to be a good technique to use against a knife attack. However, the video itself goes on to show some realistic counters a person can try while acknowledging that in a knife attack you probably will get cut which means that to the best of your ability your awareness must be your first line of defense
@kehisgreat No, the elevator "attack" is an example of guys who training having no clue how real attacks happen. They don't happen at that rhythm. Your real attacker is not a sewing machine. Pay attention to the clips of real attacks and then compare them to how the elevator guys do it. Big difference. Train for reality, not for how you imagine reality to be.
u can get the arm if u want, u can hit the guy (or girl) if u want, u can also run away. it al depends on HOW U TRAIN. if u are a bad runner then u won't escape by running. if u are not trained in how to get the arm, then u won't get it unless the attacker is drunk or dumb or u had a lucky day. if u hit the attacker and u hit like a pussy then u will loose too. so whatever u do, train it well. close to REALITY. and don't forget: train to run fast too. at least for 50 meters.
I was lucky to only have small wounds on my legs but he was not able to come even close to me. Anyone who is unfortunate to be attacked by someone holding a weapon, please, please remember...never try to play hero and disarm him, it will only get you seriously hurt. Kick hard, kick fast & kick to live(no fancy kicks please).
I have been in a fight where someone pulled a screwdriver to stab me, all disarm techniques simply went out the window. Only thing that kept me alive was by kick really hard, I went for his joints, his kneecap, his thighs. I used my shin to kick his thighs which produces a numbing effect against an untrained person. I used front-kicks to his stomach that prevented him from coming near to me & I used stopping kicks to push his legs to the side preventing him from charging at me.
Unless you've been surprised attack from the back and your body will go into shock, else for frontal attacks the only thing that will save you is the discipline instilled into you by your training. Kick as hard as you can & as fast as you can. Kicks are the only way to survive a real knife attack. Work on full-contact kicks, make sure you kick hard & fast as if your life depends on it.
I was a practitioner of Ashihara Karate(full contact) for 7 years, I have some advice passed down from my sensei. We too learn how to do knife disarms for grading purposes, but my sensei who has been in real knife fights before told us NEVER to use any form of disarming techniques in a real knife fight.
@haffoc Sorry to double post, but I've gotta say again that I love the fact that you quoted Fabris, and I really hope you've checked out Fiore. His dagger-fighting masters seem really practical to me.
@joeheng80 speaking As a person with a black belt+ in Thai Kickboxing, being involved in law enforcement for years (security and police), and having been trained in knife defenses from many different people/styles, you are correct, for grading in martial arts ok, but in REALITY, those moves do not work. also i carry a kabar TDI, i have delt w/ people who had push /neck knives, switch blades, double sided knives, glass, spikes, syringes- ect and defense is different with different types of blades
I don't think the "traditional" methods that you show are very traditional, what I've learned in my traditional asian martial arts training is very similar (in some cases identical) to the stuff you teach. But wether it's Asian martial arts of "WMA" I think it's very difficult to grab and do arm bars. Also the mechanics of using a small 3 or 4 inch knife, and defending against one, are not the same as using a huge medieval dagger of a tanto or wakazashi.
@seadawg93 Depends on what you mean is "traditional." But even the koryu methods, which were once grounded in a firm understanding of combat reality, have drifted away from their roots. There is much that is useful in the "traditional" Asian methods, don't get me wrong, The problem is separating the useful from the useless artsy-fartsy dojo dancing that has crept in.
@seadawg93 You can, in fact, catch someone's arm if they make a committed attack. I know people who have done it. Done it myself against a punch.
On the small knife thing, I assume you're referring to the disarms. Most of the HEMA knife disarms can work with a tactical folder-sized weapon, tho sometimes you have to change them a bit.
@haffoc - I'm glad you throughly created this. This is a good philosophy over martial arts of all genres. People are quick to think that grappling disarms or fancy moves are going to help them, but direct and quick reactions will guide you on the defensive. This is a well put philosophy on Knifes...
@seadawg93 If you learned stuff that is like what I'm teaching then you are fortunate. Throughout my MA career, which goes back to 1964, most of the knife defense material I've seen is junk. Re your comment "its very difficult to grab and do arm bars," I must respectfully disagree. I have known quite a few people who have defended themselves by grabbing the arm that holds the knife -- the idea that is the core of the old Euro methods of knife defense.
Most of the books I've seen from the 60's show inadequate descriptions of more modern martial arts. Koryu contains basically all the same stuff as the old European systems.
Also I totally agree that it's possible to grab an attackers knife arm, I've known done it many times during some pretty realistic training sessions and I know people who have done as well as reading descriptions of it's successful application; I just don't believe it's always there and you need other options.
@haffoc I know a few eskrima and wing chun guys whove disarmed knifers as well as a krav maga practitioner... back when I only had basic west african knife game knowledge i was able to survive an attack... it's all about drills and reflexes ...
ps were the last two clips in the vid supposed to e bad??
Interesting video... I do for the most part agree with you. I have witnessed the after math of people who have tried to defend against an edged weapon. It is a bloody mess! Knife attacks are fast and dynamic. So you have shown the problems with edged weapon defense. Do you suggest any solutions to these attacks? Paul Vunak flat out says in that video you used that he does NOT advise trying to defend against a knife but rather to run, thats good advise, guns can work too. What would you suggest?
@Sharkman3472 Some solutions are better than others. None is perfect or makes you "bullet proof." I lean in favor of the methods of Fiore dei Liberi, Talhoffer, the Gladiatoria and Marozzo, among others. At least those guys understood how knife attacks really unfold. Running is not always an option. See knife attack videos, v 1.
@haffoc That is true no deffense against anything is ever a sure thing. I will take a look at the methods for knife deffense you mention in your reply. Thanks... Train Hard Fight Easy!
Depends entirely on which "traditional martial arts" you mean. Japan? Not so much. Old Western stuff from centuries ago? Yeah. Indonesia and the Philippines? Very much.
Interesting how you show long range training methods and show close range attacks then refer to old techniques as being somehow more grounded in todays society. The fact is the engagement shown at the end of the video including the arm tie-ups will get you killed fast unless you already know where the attack is coming from and headed. which stands true for the other methods whcih some work better than others. awareness & killer instinct is more important than the techniques used.
@chr6003 The way people attack with knives is no different today than it was 600 years ago. The guys who wrote those old books had a reality-based appreciation for how people will use a blade. Don't kid yourself into thinking those old ways don't work now. I have met people who have successfully defended themselves from knife attacks using methods very similar to those advocated by the old masters. Learn from those who know, not from those who think they know.
@haffoc Exactly..Its about time someone posted the real truth about knife attack defenses..There Is NONE!..Im so damn sick and tired of martial arts classes that demonstrate defense against such attacks..it will NOT work..WILL NOT!..such bullshit..do you know how fast a knife comes at you?..and do you know when u see a knife coming at you? probally milliseconds away..no attack comes from feet away distance like how martial artists demonstrate.
@rbloch23 The drums are kinda funny. Thats Paul Vunak he is using drums becuase the system he is using a fillipino stick and knife fighting style. Thy train and spar to the sound of the congos. The idea is to move as fast or as slow as the ryth of the drums.
Just have in mine, that krav maga is a system that has been tested over and over again. I would not be studying and teaching it, if I was not absolutely sure, that the system is working. One bad thing about the system is that there are many organizations, so sometimes it's hard to find REAL KM training.
@dsdavds You cannot say that you are absolutely sure about anything that has to do with knife defence and no system is working ,they just help,especially Krav Maga is the earlier one for been tested as other ones who have been developed in wars since the begining of war history!
@haffoc my point is that martial-arts as we understand them today have nothing to do with reality and we cannot say that one modern system has been tested ''over & over again'' since this is impossible to happent in our days!
Your video shows the nature of reality & the unpredictable factors that makes any kind of skills useless if you are not alert!Krav Maga is just a new popular self-defence system for me,since I am in martial-arts since 1979,it can help but we cannot say''it is working''!
@nakabesar Respectfully, I am not sure I can agree that “modern systems have nothing to do with reality.” This is too sweeping a generalization for me. I am critical of modern systems, but I am not willing to dismiss them out of hand. Some modern systems aren’t bad. Most are partly useful and partly not. Some are plainly junk for knife defense. The problem is separating the useless from the useful.
There is useful stuff out there; it just takes a concerted effort to find it.
@nakabesar Yes,I agree,I didn't refered to them as they are useless,I said they are helping but I dont use the term''it is working'' !It is very serious statement ''the......system it is working,it has been tested or it is complited'' & I hear this since I start martial-arts but everytime I was changing system,I was discovering missing pieces & later I understand that nothing can work 100% as it can help!
@nakabesar Yes, I agree with you there. We're saying the same thing but expressing it differently. If you want to find a reliable method for unarmed knife defense, I suggest that you check out the work of Fiore dei Liberi, Hans Talhoffer, Achille Marozzo and the anonymous text Gladiatoria. They provide an excellent base and they were guys who actually fought with knives and trained men to do so, unlike most of the so-called masters of today.
@haffoc Yeah,now we are talking!I have check these artists & I was inspired a lot from their simplicity focusing on the quick ending of the confrontations!Talhoffer is genius!I believe that only with raw logic as compass when we study self-defence we can increase the possibility to survive in the worst situation!It needs open mind research & discipline to accept the ugly fact that we'll never be 100% ready!This idea of awareness ''helps'' more than any self-confidence by a martial-art system.
@jedoza I am referring to many self-appointed "experts" who claim to know what to do when faced with a knife attack, but who plainly have no clue what really happens. You cannot device a practical and effective unarmed knife defense system without a detailed appreciation for how the weapon is most likely to be used.
Just want to add, that you could see some full contact krav maga in Itay Gil's videos. Krav maga training is good, but most coaches aren't teaching the system in full contact, which really does give a false sense of security... Anyway great videos, but you haven't seen real krav maga. Btw which system, would you currently recommend for self-defence? I have seen the movements in krav maga, in probably all true self-defence systems(like fastdefence, senshido and many more).
@dsdavds Krav maga seems fairly sound, on the whole. One of the clips at the end was taken from a krava maga video. The problem with modern systems, tho, is that some of the stuff may be good; but a lot of it isn't. The challenge is determining what's good and what's not. The key is: if the system is based on gaining control of the knife arm and then working from there, the material is probably dependable.
@haffoc I agree that you should get control of the arm, but most of the time this is almost impossible. In krav we deal with committed and non-commited attacks. The primary defence for a committed attack, is block and strike at the same time, when the attack happens(the clip at the end). Believe me I have pressure tested a lot of techniques. I see that you recommend for a defense method, grabbing the attacker's arm with two hands(something I am strongly against). Anyways continue your work :)
@dsdavds I must respectfully disagree that it is "almost impossible" to get a grip on the attacking arm. If the attack is committed, which is the most likely form of attack, it is possible to grasp the arm. Of the people I have personally interview who have survived knife attacks, all but one survived by grasping the attacker's arm.
Nevermind that I don't quite buy his movements and all that.
The drum.
Any claims of authenticity he may make, the drum kills it. I can't take that guy seriously, with that drumming. (so it's good that he, indeed, shouldn't be taken seriously)
@ZarlanTheGreen It's not about the drum, altho it is a bit silly. The point is how he has the attacker attack: it is totally unlike what you are likely to face in real life.
@haffoc Yes, yes, I realize that (though to be honest I mostly just looked at the way he himself moves, which seems silly), but... My point is that, regardless of those factors, I can't take him seriously.
The fact that the attacker isn't attacking properly, and all that, is nice, as that means that nothing is lost, by the inability of being able to take him seriously,
awesome videos dude im sick of the knife fight training videos that always emply the attacker is gonna let you know he has a knife and isabout to stab you... lol gives me the impression the only fights they been in is going from white belt to yellow and so on lol
asdasdsdgdfgdf 2 weeks ago
i feel that Krav maga knows how to defence against a knife attack (defend and strike at the same time)
MrFrancobelli 4 weeks ago
@MrFrancobelli it depends on the situation and your self. for example if the attacker was to go head on ''HEY IM GONNA STAB YOU GET READY'' krav maga might work but that wont ever happen lol chances are you wont expect it and it only takes a second to get stabbed.
asdasdsdgdfgdf 2 weeks ago
I guess the best way is to watch these aggressive videos and practice realistically as if it were life or death.
IwatchesTehBBC 1 month ago
Be careful about this video too. 600 years ago, they weren't using "Folsum Prison" style knife attacks. Every ex-con is familiar with this attack & this is how you are most likely to be attacked today. See @ 1:24, 1:45, 1:53, and 2:53. In each of these attacks, the empty hand leads & grabs the target 1st, followed by repeated short quick stabs to the flank.
The attacks in the last 2 examples looked more similar to the traditional karate attacks than to the attacks @ the times I listed above.
bae313 2 months ago
@bae313 If you're saying that back in the old days nobody grabbed the victim and then stabbed him, you would be wrong. Contemporary artwork shows that kind of attack was common and most of the old manuals show many defenses against that style of attack. See for instance Fiore and Marozzo. People don't do things now any differently than they did years ago.
haffoc 2 months ago
@haffoc BLAH, BLAH, BLAH!!! Why don't you show us 1 technique where your glorious olden day techniques show us how you defend the Folsum Prison style attack. I noticed you weren't able to defend my comments on how the techniques at the end of your video closely resembled the "karate" 1 step techniques you commented negatively on @ the beginning of your video.
Also, if your system doesn't put a huge premium on situational awareness your students will never be ready to defend the folsum attack.
bae313 2 months ago
@bae313 Sorry, Bae, you're not the expert you pretend to be. Most of us who are serious about the problem of knife defense are willing to admit there's a lot we don't know and that none of us are experts. However, one thing is perfectly clear: this "Folsom prison" attack is nothing new. It's been around a long time. I've told you where to look for solutions to it. Why don't you check those sources? A quick google search will turn up the pdf to Achille Marozzo's unarmed defenses.
haffoc 1 month ago
@haffoc 1 question for you. How many knife fights have you been in? How many times have you cut another person in a fight? How many scars do you carry as a result of a fight that involved a knife? I'll bet your answers are: none, none & none. My expertise does not come from what I read in a manual & practice in my suburban backyard, my expertise came from testing what I learned in classes & books in the streets & bars where bikers & soldiers look for trouble. I know what works & doesn't.
bae313 1 month ago
Comment removed
bae313 1 month ago
@bae313 Actually, I've been stabbed twice.
haffoc 1 month ago
@haffoc Unfortunately, you will stabbed again if you have contact with a thug who wants to stab you and you use your current stuff. 9 times I have faced a knife with my empty hands & my hands, arms & even my left leg have been cut, BUT my torso, neck and head have never been cut and I have never been stabbed. Also, what in the hell are you gonna do against an ambush attack? In all the attacks you guys do, the knife is displayed prior to the attack and there is always a fair amount of seperation.
bae313 1 month ago
@haffoc ROTFLMAO!!! I followed the advice & found the text. This guy taught fencing back when challenges were formally issued & formally responded to. We are talking "dueling". Most of the text concerns swords and shields. This applies to fighting today? When & by whom do you think you are going to be attacked where this stuff will apply??? Does Christopher Columbus live in your neighborhood? Good luck when a guy who has made 2 trips to the pen for violent crimes breaks into your house!
bae313 1 month ago
@bae313 Actually, I know people who have used stuff similar to what you see in the old manuals like Fiore and Marozzo against real knifers. Two of them were corrections officers defending themselves against inmate assaults.
haffoc 1 month ago
@haffoc Here's some expert's comments about your guy's dagger work: Marozzo shows a condensed version of the types of moves used in earlier Italian systems. Dei Liberi showed over 100 individual techniques which Marozzo distills down to 22 techniques. While Fiore shows multiple counters to all of his moves, Marozzo’s work is very “optimistic” about techniques working as planned & the “counter for counter” idea is not explored.
Nice style, good luck on the day you face an actual thug.
bae313 1 month ago
@bae313 Actually Marozzo's stuff isn't any different that Fiore's. Pay attention and you might learn something.
haffoc 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@haffoc You want me to pay attention??? In the comment you have replied to, I say, "Dei Liberi showed over 100 individual techniques which Marozzo distills down to 22 techniques". From my statement, it is obvious that Marossa got his techniques from Liberi. The problem is that Marozzo leaves out all the counters you could incur and how to deal with them, thus "Marozzo’s work is very “optimistic”", as in wishful thinking. or techniques for simpletons, or for those who can't pay attention.
bae313 1 month ago
@haffoc Watch these vid to see the type of training you need to do to see if your techniques will hold up. 1. Defending a Knife Attack. 2. Reality of trying to defend against a committed knife attack.
In a real fight the attacker isn't gonna attack & leave that hand out there, he is gonna retract & attack again while running you over. Train for a real fight, that bs you are doing won’t hold up to actual combat.
Stop practicing self-perfection and start training for self-preservation.
bae313 1 month ago
@bae313 "the attacker isn't gonna leave the hand out there ..." Yes, absolutely true. If you look at all the old material, it's all about getting control of the attacker's arm and working from there. That's what sets the old material apart from what many modern "experts" tell people.
haffoc 1 month ago
@haffoc You better add some realistic training like the stuff shown in the videos I suggested. You really need to learn that the techniques I saw you performing are not going to hold up against a modern, ongoing, committed, ruthless, onslaught. You are not going to control the arm using the stufff you are using specifically because the attacker isn't going to leave the arm out there as you try to control it. He is going to counter as Fiore explored but Marozzo left out.
bae313 1 month ago
true that the knife attack is something different from what they show, but there is no harm learning some "technics to avoid knife stabbing" in the case if some drunk and wasted guy tries to stab you :D
darklightraven 3 months ago
EXCELENTE!
APACROSARIO 4 months ago
Good video makes some good points. Incredible to think though that with the advances in modern martial arts and combatives that have taken place over the last 20 years some people (infact MANY people) still train bullshit arts in a bullshit fashion, and/or still believe they will be able to access their gun/weapon in the midst of a frenzied determined real world knife attack. The so called "masters" of these bullshit arts should be held liable for their bullshit teaching and lies
Rapist87 7 months ago
Great Video! But there was one part about none traditional martial arts and one of the videos was of Paul Vunak. That was a demonstration of why traditional knife defenses do not work and the reality of a knife attack by having someone attack you with a marker so you can see how many times you get "cut". If you would like to explain how Paul Vunak does NOT know what he is talking about in regards to knife fighting it would be greatly appreciated :)
darthlordofthesith9 7 months ago
@darthlordofthesith9 All due respect to Paul, but where he's gone astray IMO is that the attack he shows is unrealistic. People don't attack like that in real life. Because they attack in real life with full commitment as depicted in these videos, some defenses (many of them "traditional" and often forgotten) can save your life.
haffoc 7 months ago
@haffoc Yeah, I can see what you mean.
darthlordofthesith9 7 months ago
@darthlordofthesith9 Paul Vunak was/is in many ways a pioneer in terms of reality thinking/training when it comes to knife,and did an excellent job of showing what many of the traditional arts did wrong and how they could get you killed.However,much of his material is directed more at knife fighting(knife vs knife)than knife attack(empty hand vs knife).In his knife attack material the "knifer" tends to act like a kick boxer,which is RIDICULOUS.He does urge you to just run away though,good advice
Rapist87 7 months ago
this knifing is scaring the shit out of me
LILXREGXBOI1 7 months ago
What's the source of all those videos? I'm especially curious about the one where the Muslim girl stabs the policeman.
pqwilrj 8 months ago
Looks like you mean in other words: "Only european martial arts work against a knife. Modern defense systems and oriental martial arts sucks"
LOL, well dude, most of those techniques are from jujitsu as well (and that is a traditional oriental art)
Sheik06 9 months ago
@Sheik06 No I'm not saying that only HEMA works against the knife. Lots of stuff from ASA works too. Problem with ASA is that what works is often mingled with stuff that doesn't work so that it's really had to figure out in ASA systems what's real and what's not. The difference between what you find in the HEMA manuals and most ASA systems is that the HEMA stuff is much simpler and better presented.
haffoc 9 months ago
GREAT video haffoc! I was even unaware of centuries old knife defenses. If you have more resources please post them! Ooos!
aj1284 9 months ago
Excellent video, showing the reality of knife attacks and all the crap being taught out there by people who have no clue!
Judokafighter 9 months ago
Love that you quoted Fabris. :)
ruebuscm 9 months ago
One of the common problems in most martial arts is that too many are concerned on how to do a technique instead of being focused on how one would be realistically attacked. Once one has their feet firmly planted in reality, one can train in some realistic defenses against any type of attack. However, if you start with something less than realistic, then you will end up with a response that is the same.
GIGO, garbage in, garbage out. An old computer term that applies.
zoransevic 10 months ago
very bloody good and so true, very well done dude for pointing out the reality (-
mysticpiggyx 10 months ago
Jeez you and I think alike. Thank you for the good video :)
Svenridesmuch 11 months ago
The segment you used to showing the Guided Chaos elevator attack was actually making your point that you cannot use grappling against a knife attack and was not showing it to be a good technique to use against a knife attack. However, the video itself goes on to show some realistic counters a person can try while acknowledging that in a knife attack you probably will get cut which means that to the best of your ability your awareness must be your first line of defense
kehisgreat 11 months ago
@kehisgreat No, the elevator "attack" is an example of guys who training having no clue how real attacks happen. They don't happen at that rhythm. Your real attacker is not a sewing machine. Pay attention to the clips of real attacks and then compare them to how the elevator guys do it. Big difference. Train for reality, not for how you imagine reality to be.
haffoc 11 months ago
2 WORDS **BODY ARMOR** kevlar is stab proof and gives you the time needed to react
MrShamelessone 1 year ago
The only real knife defense is to become a Terminator.
skatersirian 1 year ago
u can get the arm if u want, u can hit the guy (or girl) if u want, u can also run away. it al depends on HOW U TRAIN. if u are a bad runner then u won't escape by running. if u are not trained in how to get the arm, then u won't get it unless the attacker is drunk or dumb or u had a lucky day. if u hit the attacker and u hit like a pussy then u will loose too. so whatever u do, train it well. close to REALITY. and don't forget: train to run fast too. at least for 50 meters.
decebal01 1 year ago
I was lucky to only have small wounds on my legs but he was not able to come even close to me. Anyone who is unfortunate to be attacked by someone holding a weapon, please, please remember...never try to play hero and disarm him, it will only get you seriously hurt. Kick hard, kick fast & kick to live(no fancy kicks please).
joeheng80 1 year ago
I have been in a fight where someone pulled a screwdriver to stab me, all disarm techniques simply went out the window. Only thing that kept me alive was by kick really hard, I went for his joints, his kneecap, his thighs. I used my shin to kick his thighs which produces a numbing effect against an untrained person. I used front-kicks to his stomach that prevented him from coming near to me & I used stopping kicks to push his legs to the side preventing him from charging at me.
joeheng80 1 year ago
Unless you've been surprised attack from the back and your body will go into shock, else for frontal attacks the only thing that will save you is the discipline instilled into you by your training. Kick as hard as you can & as fast as you can. Kicks are the only way to survive a real knife attack. Work on full-contact kicks, make sure you kick hard & fast as if your life depends on it.
joeheng80 1 year ago
I was a practitioner of Ashihara Karate(full contact) for 7 years, I have some advice passed down from my sensei. We too learn how to do knife disarms for grading purposes, but my sensei who has been in real knife fights before told us NEVER to use any form of disarming techniques in a real knife fight.
joeheng80 1 year ago
@joeheng80 The key to knife defense is controlling the attacker's knife arm. I know many people who have done this.
haffoc 1 year ago
@haffoc Sorry to double post, but I've gotta say again that I love the fact that you quoted Fabris, and I really hope you've checked out Fiore. His dagger-fighting masters seem really practical to me.
ruebuscm 9 months ago
@joeheng80 speaking As a person with a black belt+ in Thai Kickboxing, being involved in law enforcement for years (security and police), and having been trained in knife defenses from many different people/styles, you are correct, for grading in martial arts ok, but in REALITY, those moves do not work. also i carry a kabar TDI, i have delt w/ people who had push /neck knives, switch blades, double sided knives, glass, spikes, syringes- ect and defense is different with different types of blades
richzimmer 1 year ago
Super
SifuTunik 1 year ago
I don't think the "traditional" methods that you show are very traditional, what I've learned in my traditional asian martial arts training is very similar (in some cases identical) to the stuff you teach. But wether it's Asian martial arts of "WMA" I think it's very difficult to grab and do arm bars. Also the mechanics of using a small 3 or 4 inch knife, and defending against one, are not the same as using a huge medieval dagger of a tanto or wakazashi.
seadawg93 1 year ago
@seadawg93 Depends on what you mean is "traditional." But even the koryu methods, which were once grounded in a firm understanding of combat reality, have drifted away from their roots. There is much that is useful in the "traditional" Asian methods, don't get me wrong, The problem is separating the useful from the useless artsy-fartsy dojo dancing that has crept in.
haffoc 1 year ago
@seadawg93 You can, in fact, catch someone's arm if they make a committed attack. I know people who have done it. Done it myself against a punch.
On the small knife thing, I assume you're referring to the disarms. Most of the HEMA knife disarms can work with a tactical folder-sized weapon, tho sometimes you have to change them a bit.
haffoc 1 year ago
@haffoc - I'm glad you throughly created this. This is a good philosophy over martial arts of all genres. People are quick to think that grappling disarms or fancy moves are going to help them, but direct and quick reactions will guide you on the defensive. This is a well put philosophy on Knifes...
xchargerOUx 1 year ago
@seadawg93 If you learned stuff that is like what I'm teaching then you are fortunate. Throughout my MA career, which goes back to 1964, most of the knife defense material I've seen is junk. Re your comment "its very difficult to grab and do arm bars," I must respectfully disagree. I have known quite a few people who have defended themselves by grabbing the arm that holds the knife -- the idea that is the core of the old Euro methods of knife defense.
haffoc 1 year ago
@haffoc
Most of the books I've seen from the 60's show inadequate descriptions of more modern martial arts. Koryu contains basically all the same stuff as the old European systems.
Also I totally agree that it's possible to grab an attackers knife arm, I've known done it many times during some pretty realistic training sessions and I know people who have done as well as reading descriptions of it's successful application; I just don't believe it's always there and you need other options.
seadawg93 1 year ago
@seadawg93 :...I just don't believe it's always there and you need other options. ..." Agreed.
haffoc 1 year ago
@haffoc I know a few eskrima and wing chun guys whove disarmed knifers as well as a krav maga practitioner... back when I only had basic west african knife game knowledge i was able to survive an attack... it's all about drills and reflexes ...
ps were the last two clips in the vid supposed to e bad??
halfhausaman 9 months ago
@halfhausaman No, the last two clips are about guys I think are on the right track.
haffoc 9 months ago
Interesting video... I do for the most part agree with you. I have witnessed the after math of people who have tried to defend against an edged weapon. It is a bloody mess! Knife attacks are fast and dynamic. So you have shown the problems with edged weapon defense. Do you suggest any solutions to these attacks? Paul Vunak flat out says in that video you used that he does NOT advise trying to defend against a knife but rather to run, thats good advise, guns can work too. What would you suggest?
Sharkman3472 1 year ago
@Sharkman3472 Some solutions are better than others. None is perfect or makes you "bullet proof." I lean in favor of the methods of Fiore dei Liberi, Talhoffer, the Gladiatoria and Marozzo, among others. At least those guys understood how knife attacks really unfold. Running is not always an option. See knife attack videos, v 1.
haffoc 1 year ago
@haffoc That is true no deffense against anything is ever a sure thing. I will take a look at the methods for knife deffense you mention in your reply. Thanks... Train Hard Fight Easy!
Sharkman3472 1 year ago
Depends entirely on which "traditional martial arts" you mean. Japan? Not so much. Old Western stuff from centuries ago? Yeah. Indonesia and the Philippines? Very much.
tellner 1 year ago
Interesting how you show long range training methods and show close range attacks then refer to old techniques as being somehow more grounded in todays society. The fact is the engagement shown at the end of the video including the arm tie-ups will get you killed fast unless you already know where the attack is coming from and headed. which stands true for the other methods whcih some work better than others. awareness & killer instinct is more important than the techniques used.
chr6003 1 year ago
@chr6003 The way people attack with knives is no different today than it was 600 years ago. The guys who wrote those old books had a reality-based appreciation for how people will use a blade. Don't kid yourself into thinking those old ways don't work now. I have met people who have successfully defended themselves from knife attacks using methods very similar to those advocated by the old masters. Learn from those who know, not from those who think they know.
haffoc 1 year ago
@haffoc Exactly..Its about time someone posted the real truth about knife attack defenses..There Is NONE!..Im so damn sick and tired of martial arts classes that demonstrate defense against such attacks..it will NOT work..WILL NOT!..such bullshit..do you know how fast a knife comes at you?..and do you know when u see a knife coming at you? probally milliseconds away..no attack comes from feet away distance like how martial artists demonstrate.
allexfenty 1 year ago
@chr6003 As I know people who have done just such defenses against a knife attack, I don't find your observation very fact based.
haffoc 1 year ago
Very good video! I would guess you like the "Realistic Knife Defence Training" on youtube are you? :-)
joergus 1 year ago
Can you imagine? Congo drums....
rbloch23 1 year ago
@rbloch23 The drums are kinda funny. Thats Paul Vunak he is using drums becuase the system he is using a fillipino stick and knife fighting style. Thy train and spar to the sound of the congos. The idea is to move as fast or as slow as the ryth of the drums.
Sharkman3472 1 year ago
If u can't run away. Break or kill the fucker...
NorthernKaled 1 year ago
great video for so called knife defence instructors
minasz 1 year ago
Just have in mine, that krav maga is a system that has been tested over and over again. I would not be studying and teaching it, if I was not absolutely sure, that the system is working. One bad thing about the system is that there are many organizations, so sometimes it's hard to find REAL KM training.
dsdavds 1 year ago
@dsdavds You cannot say that you are absolutely sure about anything that has to do with knife defence and no system is working ,they just help,especially Krav Maga is the earlier one for been tested as other ones who have been developed in wars since the begining of war history!
nakabesar 1 year ago
@nakabesar OK, and your point is ...?
haffoc 1 year ago
@haffoc my point is that martial-arts as we understand them today have nothing to do with reality and we cannot say that one modern system has been tested ''over & over again'' since this is impossible to happent in our days!
Your video shows the nature of reality & the unpredictable factors that makes any kind of skills useless if you are not alert!Krav Maga is just a new popular self-defence system for me,since I am in martial-arts since 1979,it can help but we cannot say''it is working''!
nakabesar 1 year ago
@nakabesar Respectfully, I am not sure I can agree that “modern systems have nothing to do with reality.” This is too sweeping a generalization for me. I am critical of modern systems, but I am not willing to dismiss them out of hand. Some modern systems aren’t bad. Most are partly useful and partly not. Some are plainly junk for knife defense. The problem is separating the useless from the useful.
There is useful stuff out there; it just takes a concerted effort to find it.
haffoc 1 year ago
@nakabesar Yes,I agree,I didn't refered to them as they are useless,I said they are helping but I dont use the term''it is working'' !It is very serious statement ''the......system it is working,it has been tested or it is complited'' & I hear this since I start martial-arts but everytime I was changing system,I was discovering missing pieces & later I understand that nothing can work 100% as it can help!
nakabesar 1 year ago
@nakabesar Yes, I agree with you there. We're saying the same thing but expressing it differently. If you want to find a reliable method for unarmed knife defense, I suggest that you check out the work of Fiore dei Liberi, Hans Talhoffer, Achille Marozzo and the anonymous text Gladiatoria. They provide an excellent base and they were guys who actually fought with knives and trained men to do so, unlike most of the so-called masters of today.
haffoc 1 year ago
@haffoc Yeah,now we are talking!I have check these artists & I was inspired a lot from their simplicity focusing on the quick ending of the confrontations!Talhoffer is genius!I believe that only with raw logic as compass when we study self-defence we can increase the possibility to survive in the worst situation!It needs open mind research & discipline to accept the ugly fact that we'll never be 100% ready!This idea of awareness ''helps'' more than any self-confidence by a martial-art system.
nakabesar 1 year ago
@haffoc question: who are these "so-called masters" that you are talking about?
jedoza 1 year ago
@jedoza I am referring to many self-appointed "experts" who claim to know what to do when faced with a knife attack, but who plainly have no clue what really happens. You cannot device a practical and effective unarmed knife defense system without a detailed appreciation for how the weapon is most likely to be used.
haffoc 1 year ago
Just want to add, that you could see some full contact krav maga in Itay Gil's videos. Krav maga training is good, but most coaches aren't teaching the system in full contact, which really does give a false sense of security... Anyway great videos, but you haven't seen real krav maga. Btw which system, would you currently recommend for self-defence? I have seen the movements in krav maga, in probably all true self-defence systems(like fastdefence, senshido and many more).
dsdavds 1 year ago
@dsdavds Krav maga seems fairly sound, on the whole. One of the clips at the end was taken from a krava maga video. The problem with modern systems, tho, is that some of the stuff may be good; but a lot of it isn't. The challenge is determining what's good and what's not. The key is: if the system is based on gaining control of the knife arm and then working from there, the material is probably dependable.
haffoc 1 year ago
@haffoc I agree that you should get control of the arm, but most of the time this is almost impossible. In krav we deal with committed and non-commited attacks. The primary defence for a committed attack, is block and strike at the same time, when the attack happens(the clip at the end). Believe me I have pressure tested a lot of techniques. I see that you recommend for a defense method, grabbing the attacker's arm with two hands(something I am strongly against). Anyways continue your work :)
dsdavds 1 year ago
@dsdavds I must respectfully disagree that it is "almost impossible" to get a grip on the attacking arm. If the attack is committed, which is the most likely form of attack, it is possible to grasp the arm. Of the people I have personally interview who have survived knife attacks, all but one survived by grasping the attacker's arm.
haffoc 1 year ago
Ehm... about the guy at 2:50...
Nevermind that I don't quite buy his movements and all that.
The drum.
Any claims of authenticity he may make, the drum kills it. I can't take that guy seriously, with that drumming. (so it's good that he, indeed, shouldn't be taken seriously)
ZarlanTheGreen 1 year ago
@ZarlanTheGreen It's not about the drum, altho it is a bit silly. The point is how he has the attacker attack: it is totally unlike what you are likely to face in real life.
haffoc 1 year ago
@haffoc Yes, yes, I realize that (though to be honest I mostly just looked at the way he himself moves, which seems silly), but... My point is that, regardless of those factors, I can't take him seriously.
The fact that the attacker isn't attacking properly, and all that, is nice, as that means that nothing is lost, by the inability of being able to take him seriously,
ZarlanTheGreen 1 year ago