Gal 1 "I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any [man] preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed." Galations 1.
@davidakadb And you base that on nothing but you're own beliefs, as mormons meet the definition of christian. See my video 'mormons are christians too'. Or you can keep lying, which in your religion is a 'sin'. Imagine not getting into heaven because you lied on behalf of your own beliefs. It would be quite ironic.
I dont like mormons. Im black and I can never respect a people who believed that blacks had no souls and that we had to be slaves in order to get to heaven. The Mormon religion is pure bullshit!!!
@MrCraigTheGreat Oh I can't believe this! Haven't you read a thing I've written over the years?? I'm a convert to the Mormon church and I know there are many things that are twisted and distorted--I read all this stuff when I was first investigating the church! But I took the time to learn the truth! I wish others would as well! The Mormon church offers more spiritually for blacks than any other church! Please learn the truth!
@MrCraigTheGreat And then you use the sh-word! WHY??? Why do you have to use profanity?? do you realize there are ladies on these boards?? do you swear in real life? It's so crude and offensive! It just drives me nuts when I see so many people online who use profanity!
@MrCraigTheGreat Is there a religion that isn't? Also I don't think they ever believed black people had no souls. I could be wrong, but I've never heard that before.
God also gave knowledge to cant be stupid and pretend all you want or tell the truth and thats all he is doing and if you cant see that you are blind you cant just say have grace and peace thats what happened in pearl harbor and we got bombed god gave truth dont forget that not to tell everybody its ok. You are just going to hell no he didnt. read the bible before my head explodes.lol mormons
I am a mormon, and there are 100 things that are unfair in the old T for that sake ,and now we are talking old fashion good christians. But dont worry, I love you and I hope you will get all the respect and glory from godand mormons.( You see...sometimes racists interpret things for their own pervert causes, and sometimes "being condemned" can have several meanings. Mankind have been condemned in many ways through the history. I am a European.
This man does not present himself with peace or grace. We can debate forever and ever. Christ would have us pray together, praise him and feel his presence. We are certainly not supposed to understand everything. Otherwise he wouldn't teach us faith... Lord, please give us peace, give us strength to pray with each other more, seek you, instead of having theses endless debates satan is laughing at.
We wouldn´t despise someone like Jhon the Baptist. We want people come to our church. McGranney is biased. To be a christian do we need to look like "crap" as he said ?
I don´t think so. One thing it has nothing to do with another. Everyone knows that being clean and ordered is a virtue. God can´t condemn that. And the fact that you are clean and ordered doesn´t mean you are a sinner or a pharisee.
But I am sure he is describing himself when he was a empty LDS.
Shaun is a born again christian who turned away from the mormon hoop law.God is the one and only god.Go ahead morons build your temples and sheild yourself from the presence of God.
@APkillgamer I thought Shaun was relying on his own righteousness as he believes he was a lost sinner. He says he hopes he is deteriorating! No self righteousness as far as I can see. Christ stormed into the temple.
Atheist comments are so annoying telling me religion ridiculous when they can't explain how the whole universe was made I would rather believe that god has always existed then believe all of sudden we appeared here
@TheSkepticChristian theory, formulated essentially by Albert Einstein, that all motion must be defined relative to a frame of reference and that space and time are relative, rather than absolute concepts: it consists of two principal parts. NOW READ THIS. “Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man,” Romans 1:22-23. You can't debate, not when it comes to the word of God.
UNIVERSAL SALVATION was for me a HERESY, people pleasing idea until I saw passages like this.
Romans 5;19 "for as through the disobedience of the one man,THE MANY were constituted sinners: so also through the obedience of the one, shall THE MANY be constituted righteous."
Do you believe it? Hell is NOT the final plan of God. EVERYONE WILL BE SAVED THROUGH JESUS, YES EVERYONE.
UNIVERSAL SALVATION was for me a HERESY, people pleasing idea until I saw passages like this.
Romans 5;19 "for as through the disobedience of the one man,THE MANY were constituted sinners: so also through the obedience of the one, shall THE MANY be constituted righteous."
Do you believe it? Hell is NOT the final plan of God. EVERYONE WILL BE SAVED THROUGH JESUS, YES EVERYONE.
@motibi Romans... the Archaic period... I'm sure they supported Roman 'Gods' apposed to Christian 'Gods'... Where did you get that quote? Illiad? Heroditus? Oddysay? - Anyhow, i'm sure it's refering to their own god's, possible Mars (God of War)? It doesn't really relate to this christian debate as it's on something totally different.
@TheSkepticChristian I see others prove you wrong all of the time. You are full of yourself and you need to CARE what God believes, so you are leading people to him. So far you are only grasping at straws and making up things. If you want to live in your religion bubble, just take that risk alone and not with the lives of others.
but you need to learn the painful truth, for your own good.
"I not only confess but I maintain, such a similitude of Plato's and John's Trinity doctrines as bespeaks a common origin." (Thirteenth letter to Dr. Priestley.)
"The Greeks had a first God, and second God, and third God, and the second was begotten by the first. And yet for all that......they considered all these one." (Mr. Cudworth)
@TheSoulamore You need to learn the simplicity of the Gospel, you need to come back to Christ church, you are the one that confuses people, and goes in circles. Please open your heart, and look at the simple things, and return to the LDS church, the church of Jesus.
bytheway, there is no evidence that the Hebrews had contact with the Greeks, before Plato. (they did have contact, but after Plato)
@TheSkepticChristian Sorry. There is nothing after Jesus took on the sins of the world and he said you had teachers but now you have me. You dont need your Elders and covenants. Its garbage.
Ed is an idiot. But I do like this guy, the guy that was ex-communicated, my biggest worry or complaint, is that he seems to still be "into" or for a religion (Christianity). I mean, hasn't he learned that his religions and religious doctrines are horrible? I think he would have learned that by the way he has lived, what he has learned and the way he speaks about his life currently and as a Mormon.
Topics: The Issue On The Criminal Liability Of Foretelling The END OF THE WORLD, Other Debated Issues, Terrorism, War, Law, Politics, Religion, Philosophy, Science, Others.
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..you have a weapon greater then anything backing you up.. "THE TRUTH".. If they want that badly, sooooo badly they can over look all the evidence andfollow like sheep. That's their hang up. Ignorance is bliss..
Look, if ever comfronted by missionaries (MORMONS READ WHAT I SAY AND TRUELY THINK AND LOOK AT YOURSELVES) simply say.. it is foolish to pray about things you know are not God’s will. It would be wrong of me to pray about whether adultery is right, when the Bible clearly says it is not. Similarly, it would be wrong of me to pray about the Book of Mormon when one can so easily demonstrate that it is not the word of God. They look at you like you hit em in the face with a fucking stick "BUT"
I want someone to translate this to russian. Many many russians in baptist churches believe that a person is saved by their works! This "Ed" reminds me of some people in my church!
@seamusodaltoon You seem to be a Christain that has had a rough go at it for quite some time. Atheists would try and convince you and I that struggles confirm that God is a product of delusion. I pray God helps you with you're pain...but the Apostle Paul did have that tormenting thorn in the flesh. All I know is their are no simples answers somethings, although some Christains may try and tell us there are. "...for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee." (Heb. 13:5)
@seamusodaltoon If you're condemned than so am I. My conversion experience was one thing (it is the reason I've been to hang in there during times of discouragement). The conversion experience is one thing, but then comes the walk of faith. I was breezing along for about two years when the trial hit. It seemed God was really with me on something important when it all came crashing down. I've been struggling with various degrees of pain and discouragement for 20+ years. But I still believe-con't
@seamusodaltoon One of my problems was thinking I had to change my lifestyle to become a Christain. One Sunday, while nursing a hangover, I cried out "What is it God?" God heard that as me asking for His help. I was suddenly filled with the most beautiful, peaceful presense of the Holy Spirit. My hangover disappeared. I picked up the NT and my eyes were opened to understand it. I felt loved and acceptance instead of condemnation. My life changed as a result of God's love, not vice versa.
@seamusodaltoon Being christened won't do anything Seamus, my friend :). The bible was written by men inspired by the Holy Spirit. Over the course of a few thousand years, men from different parts of middle east, with differing professions, from different cultures wrote pointing toward a messiah coming to save His nation. Prophecies are fulfilled, the bible is the best selling book ever. Friend, simply cry out to God to save you! and He will.
The theory of evolution does not go beyond science one bit. I am convinced after years of talking with laypeople about this that ALL of their confusion stems from ignorance. The confusion that people propagate is on all levels. Including the worst one, just mentioned by Knight below me, that we argue that evolution is "infallible". These kinds of straw-man critiques are never-ending. The only thing being demonstrated here is how fast people will form opinions without having properly researched.
Really why do people think the LDS church leaders just keep the money they us that to fund for charities like deseret and they use it to build churches and temples plus our ten percent we do as tithing IS NOT MANDATORY we do it so we can pay for mire temples and churches justlike catholics or christians do that thing were they pass that bowl and people put money
I may be an atheist but this guy totally pwned the guy that called into the show, I wish more Christians were like this guy, good message, like the bit about John! Jeez I even feel like sending you a couple of bucks.....keep up the good work and clean up the den of theives we have currently on offer.
I was talking about Indians in India as well. Also I agree with you that it's common for people to take their parents' religion, but it's not always the case. There are Christians in Saudi Arabia, but they remain underground to stay alive. But they are willing to die for what they believe to be true - which is a mark of an honest person.
Generalizing all religions is also a fallacy. I'm saying to stay open and not discount everything - it's not rational as they're all different.
@Kiithknight, Agree, it's not always the case. If Christian in Saudi Arabia, you better hide, but why do they hide their faith. If they are truly honest and are willing to die for their beliefs, why are they hiding? Sounds like they don't trust their faith in Jesus.
Now as an Agnostic, I do not believe in stories written by those from the Bronze Age. I believe in evolution & that there are 400 billion galaxies and our Milky way is 100,000 light years wide & 1,000 light years deep.
Think about it from a practical sense. I'm sure those Christians in SA, if asked, would tell the truth and die for it. But what good is it to go out into the street and shout until you get stoned to death? That's just a waste; staying underground allows them to live and grow spiritually while allowing them the chance to share to friends and family and possibly changing some minds and hearts.
Again Chronological Snobbery and false generalizations. Investigate instead of dismiss.
Also by evolution do you mean the Theory of Evolution? I'm sure most rational people believe in adaptation, but the extrapolation to one kind of creature becoming another kind over millions of years is taken on faith - there's no scientific evidence for it. It's a kind of faith I can't muster. What I gather from the other things, however, is that you believe what you see. That's fine as long as you keep your eyes open instead of using fallacies to selectively shut them.
@Kiithknight, If you believe in ancient myths rather than scientific proof fine. I'm not going to argue with you. If you get a chance, visit the Smithsonian museum of natural history. We have DNA, fossils & skeleton remains. It's faith vs facts. As far as keeping an open mind, yours is closed as you believe these ancient myths. I'll choose Science over someone claiming they are the son of god.
If you wish to know the basis of your faith watch:
I love science. The problem is that ToE is not science. DNA just as easily evidences common design as common ancestor, and fossils mean nothing since you can't prove they had offspring, can't prove the offspring was different, and can't prove that difference was passed on. We don't see macroevolution happening, so it can't be science; science must be observed. My mind is tested every day and my relationship with Yeshua always gets reinforced. I challenge you to look into your faith.
Boy you sure made a case there. You totally refuted everything I said in that post. You addressed my philosophical point on the nature of DNA evidences, the fossil record, and the lack of any observation of it happening - I must concede everything. Actually you're making the positive claim here, so show me how macroevolution is observed science and not just conjecture.
@Kiithknight I did make a positive case, and hence the burden of proof is the one who asserts. That is right. But this isn't a 500-character-limit type of thing. In fact, by stating that evolution is not a science, there are 2 major terms in there that need to be clarified to you, evolution, and science. To say evolution is not a science is to gravely misunderstand both terms. I can't help you. I can't teach you calculus if you don't know basic arithmetic. You need to learn about this.
This just shows that you didn't read anything else in my conversation with MrHoolits before picking out one thing I said and saying "wrong". Look at the context of what I said. I gave reasons for why it is not scientific, mainly that it hasn't been observed. Something not observed cannot be science by definition. Also I said adaptation (microevolution) is observed and scientific, but macroevolution is not. I defined my terms. Reply to my channel to bypass the character limit.
@Kiithknight You do know there's a difference between direct and indirect observations right? That's just a sidenote, cause you keep using that word as if it was one thing. I think by observed you really mean to say falsifiable, and that, sorry, whatever you view of evolution is, it is.
You say micro has been observed and not macro. Look, I've dealt with people who use this one-liner in 2000. It's 2011 and now there are public resources you can find to show why this is wrong. Have you tried?
Of course there are differences. However I'm saying it has never been observed either way. We see changes within kinds of animals (ex different breeds of chickens), but to extrapolate from that and say that one kind becomes another is pure imagination with no evidence. There are limits that we've never observed being crossed. If and until we see those limits crossed, macroevolution is not science. Give me one example of maroevolution - I can't find one.
@Kiithknight You can't find one? You haven't tried. Jesus Christ, it's as simple as googling it. This is practically the equivalent of you looking froward, me telling you hey look the fossils are behind you, and you replying "where? I don't see them", without having turned around. Try looking first, it's not as esoteric or non-existent as creationist propaganda will tell you. Start with the wikipedia article for macroevolution, and read the "misuse" heading. READ IT or shut up. Read the refs too
I still can't find one after reading what you asked me to read. I checked the resources on TalkOrigins as well. I'm not saying there is no speciation, but "species" is a loose term anyway, and it's also presumptuous to think that our imposed organization of nature reflects nature perfectly. There are changes, and that's fine, but to extrapolate and say that life evolved from one ancestor is pure speculation. It's ontology, not science. Whether or not it's true, it's not science.
This is why I said "kind" instead of "species". If you mean macroevolution as speciation, then I agree that takes place. However you can't with a straight face tell me that our classification of organisms is perfect - it may be completely off. Point is ToE states that life evolved from a common ancestor, and you can't back that up with anything but conjecture. It's a question of how modern life forms came "to be", which is ontology. It's a separate branch of philosophy from science.
@Kiithknight The definition of species is not clear-cut, but that in no way supports any creationist assertion. It's not as if we have no clue at all and all of it is conjecture. Sorry but you really do need to learn more before stating such a huge blanket statement as "evolution is not a science". And "kind" is not a scientific term. That's the third time you lead any reader to believe you are ill-informed about this. Really, continue learning about this, that's my only advice.
I'm not saying it supports creationism. I'm saying that it is not infallible, so to make extrapolations off of it does not mean one is correct. Also I am not saying evolution is not science, but the ToE is not science because it tries to answer a question of ontology. It sees life and asks how it came to be [as we see it now]. "Kind" is not scientific - I never claimed it was. Like species, there is no solid definition. I go with that which can interbreed (ex: dogs and wolves).
@Kiithknight "It sees life and asks how it came to be [as we see it now]."
Notice that the first part of that sentence is entirely misleading. It does not talk about the genesis of life, so there's no reason why that last part should be bracketed. Now your use of the word theory is in question too, because if you are in the end only stuck on common ancestry, then look at phylogeny. And sorry but that attempt at linking the merits of the term species with "kind" was a new rhetorical low.
I'm not saying it deals with how the first life originated, but rather how the life that we see now came to be - thus the brackets for clarification. My definition of theory as it related to science is: an attempt to explain the how of an observed law. The problem is that there is no law about which to theorize. Phylogeny is fascinating, but it just as readily proves common design as ancestry, so it's not strong imo.
@Kiithknight "but it just as readily proves common design as ancestry"
And you say evolution isn't a science? You're taking things into metaphysics now. It by no means implies design. If that conclusion is what you reach, it is not from the evidence. The evidence says common ancestor. Period. From that if you want to say something more, you can say it was the silver surfer as much as it was god. Occam's razor, verificationism and falsifiability nullify your position.
@Kiithknight Just as readily proves common designer? K, wow. You keep going lower and lower. You were the one talking about WHERE THE SCIENCE LEADS. Phylogeny, strictly speaking, gives you common ancestry. If you get the common designer idea from that, then that belief is not one coming solely from the evidence. You could just as well say it was the silver surfer who did it as much as you can say god did it. You're bringing this into metaphysics, but you show no understanding of that either.
I already stated all this with MrHoolits. I'm not talking about where science leads - I'm talking about whether or not it's science at all. Phylogeny tells you that some things share common traits, but that by no means tells you they came from a common ancestor. They MAY have, but they also MAY have been designed similarly. Also it's funny you're bringing God into this; I haven't. A designer could mean an alien, but the point is that similarity (esp. of INFORMATION) begs for intelligence.
@Kiithknight "Phylogeny tells you that some things share common traits, but that by no means tells you they came from a common ancestor."
No, it doesn't. Go talk to professionals or read the journals. If you cared, you'd find it. You think you're the first person I talk to that uses these arguments? Do you know what happens in my experience when I bring them the physical journals that have these conclusions? It doesn't matter. You have an a priori conviction. Stop pretending it's evidential.
Also I don't see it as low to liken species and kind as being ambiguous - they both are. What defines a species is not agreed upon except in the most general sense.
Also please know I'm not debating this on religious grounds. I didn't believe in ToE before I became a Christian. I see it as a big leap out of science, and while it may or may not be true, it's not science because it's not been observed.
@Kiithknight And I'm getting fed up with you moving the goal post. First it's no observation, then it's no observation for MACRO, then it's "okay there's speciation, but that's still not what I'm looking for", then you bring up common ancestry, then I give you phylogeny, then you say this can be interpreted for god too. Your presupposition is staggering and unshakeable. Please do not come at me stating that your complaints are scientific. QED.
Again this is all with MrHoolits, I have to backtrack with you. There is no good definition of species, so I'm using kind (life which can interbreed). Speciation occurs (dogs and wolves), but this in no way evidences that life evolved from a single organism over millions of years. I would still consider that microevolution. We have only ever seen chickens produce chickens, flies-flies, dogs-dogs, etc. There is no evidence they are becoming something else or came from anything else.
In short: Regardless of whether all species came from one life form and continues to branch into other kinds (things which cannot interbreed) through gaining information (never been seen) by beneficial mutations (haven't seen that either) is true or not, ToE is not science because it hasn't been observed. It's ontological, which is another branch of philosophy altogether.
Beyond that, evolution is certainly true. We've seen it. But to go beyond what we see leaves the realm of science.
I don't want to go into a big Evolution debate right now, so I'll leave it at that. I'll just say what I said before and we'll be done: stay open-minded and don't discount things based on fallacies.
I'll do that later today when I get the chance. I probably won't post back here if there's anything insightful, but I will put it on my channel page or PM you.
23 Don’t have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels. 24 And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful.
@thesentinelonline As far as religion, If your parents were Baptist you would be Baptist or parents Jewish, you would be Jewish, if Mormon, you would be Mormon and so ..
If born in India, you would be Hindu or born in the middle east probably Muslin and you would be whatever religion is prominent in that country.
Religion is based on chance of your parents country.
All religions believe their God is the true God and all are based in ancient myths.
I know Indians who are now Christian. I know Americans who grew up in a Christian home and are now Muslim. I know a girl whose parents are Atheist and she became a Christian. Background does not necessarily determine worldview.
Also you're committing a fallacy called Chronological Snobbery. Discounting a belief because it's old isn't logical. Constantly look into all you can and never discount everything. Every belief system has to be taken individually because they're all different.
@Kiithknight, I take the Indians you speak of live in the U.S. How many Indians in INDIA are becoming Christians. Was I discounting a belief? Can you honestly tell me those in India & Israel and in the U.S. do not keep the same religion as their parents?
There are exceptions to all rules but the majority will still stick with their families religion as I did until I became an Agnostic.
I no longer believe in ancient myths written in the Bronze Age by those who wish to manipulate people.
No I'm talking about Indians from India. I'll agree that many people just follow their parents' beliefs blindly, but can you really say they are a part of it? I'm sorry but I don't consider someone a Christian if they only hold the title because of birth and didn't actually choose it for their self.
See, you're committing to your fallacy. Also the burden of proof is on you to show it was meant to manipulate. If you read the Bible, it goes against social control of the people.
@Kiithknight, I was talking about Indians still living in India not the Bobby Jindals. If you were Saudi Arabian you would be a Sunni Muslim. If born in Israel & parents Jewish, you would be a Jew. If you were born to someone in the deep jungles of the Amazon, you would believe in whatever religion is prevalent.
Religion is mostly based on CHANCE & where you live, of course there are exceptions. Each religion claims their God is the real God. To me, no religion is better than the other.
@thesentinelonline, I thought this guy was Jim Brown. The comments I made was me thinking he was Jim Brown as you mention his name and thought your were defending him.
Don't know who Jim Brown is and thanks, as an Atheist and bothers me when I see people claiming they represent or know what God thinks even if there was one.
Like you it really bothers me when people get extremely wealthy on the backs of people with meager earnings.
@thesentinelonline, I've only seen this one clip & do not know anything about Jim Brown. I was more commenting on LDS or any religious corporation claiming they have the right from God to excommunicate and feel bad for anyone gullible to believe they can be excommunicated.
Jim commented on the wealth of LDS and I was agreeing but added TV Evangelist. The worst is BILLIONAIRE Pat Robertson who is on TV everyday asking money from those with meager earnings. All that wealth yet begs for more.
Shawn te estas deteroriando? looking like crap? that was spanish for Deterring !! jajajajajaja.. YOU GO SHAWN MACRANEY!!!!!!! YOU GO SIR, KEEP GOING, I KNOW YOU ARE MERCYFUL, AND SMART, AND HOMBLE, I LOV HOW YOU TALK TO ED, LOVE IT, P ASSIONATE MAN!! IN ORDER TO DO THAT YOU HAVE TO BE PASSIONATE, AND U R SHAWN!!!!!!!! ED GET OVER IT, YOU SOUND SO SELF RIGHTOUS
I think this host is kind of a dummy. In reference to John the Baptist, I don't think the caller would have looked down upon him, because that is what everyone looked like back then. Duh. It's not like Ed (the caller) and John the Baptist can live in two different times. Lol.
alright i am not mormon and i am Christian, but what you do doesn't make u a better guy then someone who cant or has never done anything. and who the fuck cares what you did to get you book asshole. way to look like a dick and also its a sacrifice? not if your bragging about it.
Mormons are truly a tragic group of people . The amount of incest and finacial cons are staggering . Mormonism , of course , was a con to begin with . Many children's lives have been ruined because of this disgusting religion . Many evil men have been attracted to the "Mormon lifestyle " of multiple wives and subjugation of women . The poor young men who waste years of their life spreading this filth usually grow up to deeply regret doing so .
This guy is judging and being angry to the caller. Didn't Jesus teach us to love our neighbour, another, judge yourself before other. Both these guys don't seem to know the bible or follow Yeshua's words. May God open their eyes to the truth and light.
regardless, anyone who sees this must see the evil...blind seared hell bound listen listen..listen watch the video ..stop...think...now, inside is it christian? alrightythen. i hate THEE best. & i know the true gospel ..it isnt here.. this is where to find truth standingthegap dont 4get the org ...but lets disregard my comment rather retaliate proving this motivation.. i hate THEE best.. pitty is, some may actually heed & freekout on how a wretch like myself knows
Keep yourself from having an audience such as this, it will fill ur heart with pride mocking and insulting others isn't the way to send a friendly message to come unto Christ.
There has never been any human being that has has a 2 way conversation with "God". Any person masquerading as a middleman or spokesperson for God is either delusional or a liar protecting the assets & profits of a religious corporation. Anyone who believes they can excommunicate or can be excommunicated has been completely brainwashed.
I feel for the gullible & naive who allow those that claim to be talking for God and ask for monetary donations like TV Evangelists claiming to heal.
@MrHoolits "There has never been any human being that has has a 2 way conversation with "God"." Whew! That's a relief, I was afraid for a minute that Moses and Jesus were on to something. Good to know I don't have to worry about that shit.
@guineapiggyman, Years of indoctrination starting from childhood and never questioning or thinking about the things written in the bible. If someone today claimed said snakes, donkeys & burning bushes talk most would not believe. The one thing in the bible is consistent. When god speaks to Moses, Noah, ect,, they are always alone and never witnesses.
I'll never understand how Jim Jones, David Koresh, Politicians, Politicians, Televangelists & others can get people to believe god spoke to them.
There is little more ridiculous than religious devotees arguing over the moral high ground. It is of course inevitable that they will disagree since each feels only he is following the true path which proves, to me at least, that there is no true path. Their unseemly and utterly pointless squabble is indicative of a typical alpha male dispute and serves only to create division and disharmony amongst previously good spirited people. Religion is so childish!
@ColonelGaypenguin So then why does one of your advanced aptitude, waste his time trolling such videos. Who's more ridiculous? Those who debate such things, or those that waste their time reading and commenting on these "childish" debates?
@theboofooguy If I am a troll then so are you! I have as much right to comment as anyone else.I simply represent a point of view which may not be welcome to you but might give others pause for thought. Religious people don't rationally consider their position; they have a loyal, tribal mentality towards baseless, illogical and often immoral ancient teachings they call wisdom. Most people have their own localised version of religious dogma imposed on them from birth and it's time to stop the rot!
@ColonelGaypen Based on your logic,I must assume that your educational backround disallows your ability to understand a higher being.This is your prerogative.However,the imposition of such a mentality on those in obvious disagreement is at best,ridiculous.Your assessment of this debate as childish only reinforces my assessment that for you to intervene with a view that is not accepted by either sect is nothing but an attempt to demean both.This is neither effective or welcome.Troll elsewhere.
Gal 1 "I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any [man] preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed." Galations 1.
NoneBeforeNoneAfter 2 days ago
Lol this title is false as mromons are christians. It's like saying best Catholic/christian debate, haha.
humanistheart 2 weeks ago
@humanistheart except Catholics are Christians, Mormons aren't
davidakadb 2 weeks ago
@davidakadb And you base that on nothing but you're own beliefs, as mormons meet the definition of christian. See my video 'mormons are christians too'. Or you can keep lying, which in your religion is a 'sin'. Imagine not getting into heaven because you lied on behalf of your own beliefs. It would be quite ironic.
humanistheart 2 weeks ago
@humanistheart Yeah and Buddhists and Muslims must be Christians too, right?
seanstrnad 4 hours ago
Hurt so good, McCraney makes the truth hurt so good...Sometimes love don't feel like it should, you make it hurt so good!
drfreebird777 2 weeks ago
I dont like mormons. Im black and I can never respect a people who believed that blacks had no souls and that we had to be slaves in order to get to heaven. The Mormon religion is pure bullshit!!!
MrCraigTheGreat 1 month ago
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MrThundermouth 3 weeks ago
@MrCraigTheGreat Oh I can't believe this! Haven't you read a thing I've written over the years?? I'm a convert to the Mormon church and I know there are many things that are twisted and distorted--I read all this stuff when I was first investigating the church! But I took the time to learn the truth! I wish others would as well! The Mormon church offers more spiritually for blacks than any other church! Please learn the truth!
cindybin2001 2 weeks ago
@MrCraigTheGreat And then you use the sh-word! WHY??? Why do you have to use profanity?? do you realize there are ladies on these boards?? do you swear in real life? It's so crude and offensive! It just drives me nuts when I see so many people online who use profanity!
cindybin2001 2 weeks ago
@MrCraigTheGreat Is there a religion that isn't? Also I don't think they ever believed black people had no souls. I could be wrong, but I've never heard that before.
humanistheart 1 week ago
God also gave knowledge to cant be stupid and pretend all you want or tell the truth and thats all he is doing and if you cant see that you are blind you cant just say have grace and peace thats what happened in pearl harbor and we got bombed god gave truth dont forget that not to tell everybody its ok. You are just going to hell no he didnt. read the bible before my head explodes.lol mormons
bobbyraejohnson 1 month ago
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I am a mormon, and there are 100 things that are unfair in the old T for that sake ,and now we are talking old fashion good christians. But dont worry, I love you and I hope you will get all the respect and glory from godand mormons.( You see...sometimes racists interpret things for their own pervert causes, and sometimes "being condemned" can have several meanings. Mankind have been condemned in many ways through the history. I am a European.
MrThundermouth 3 weeks ago
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This man does not present himself with peace or grace. We can debate forever and ever. Christ would have us pray together, praise him and feel his presence. We are certainly not supposed to understand everything. Otherwise he wouldn't teach us faith... Lord, please give us peace, give us strength to pray with each other more, seek you, instead of having theses endless debates satan is laughing at.
MrPcdailybuzz 1 month ago
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MrPcdailybuzz 1 month ago
We wouldn´t despise someone like Jhon the Baptist. We want people come to our church. McGranney is biased. To be a christian do we need to look like "crap" as he said ?
I don´t think so. One thing it has nothing to do with another. Everyone knows that being clean and ordered is a virtue. God can´t condemn that. And the fact that you are clean and ordered doesn´t mean you are a sinner or a pharisee.
But I am sure he is describing himself when he was a empty LDS.
dorisfenella 2 months ago
OMG, this is one of the silliest "debates" I've ever witnessed.
bhickman6 2 months ago
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He's more fueled by his problems with the Mormon church.
Not because he wants to share the gospel of Jesus Christ. ---devout Mormon ☺
jspydr 3 months ago
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jspydr 3 months ago
O and this dude is trained very well. Look at all the techniques he uses. Dude on the phone, without a fair time to speak, killed him.
blackout3842 3 months ago
This dude is a clown! Keep posting
blackout3842 3 months ago
the stupid vs the insane
893160007 4 months ago
@893160007 Lol i know right
maxmatt4 3 months ago
Shaun is a born again christian who turned away from the mormon hoop law.God is the one and only god.Go ahead morons build your temples and sheild yourself from the presence of God.
romeo74820 4 months ago
@romeo74820
How do they "sheild" themselves from the presence of God?
Sk8er408 4 months ago
The guy on the phone was a self rightious asshole in and money suit.
romeo74820 4 months ago
Religious people who do not like their beliefs being laughed at.,...should not have such hysterical beliefs.!
directtalk1 4 months ago
religion is dumb as fuck
Bucky640 4 months ago
mormon church has gone almost 200 years without payment to its church officials
this guy is a self righteouss biggot
why if you are trying to be a disciple of Christ and live as he would would you be so sarcastic and harsh.
the man on the phone is being polite
this dude is being a douche bag
Christ did not act like a douche bag
I think God would have us dress as clean and presentable as possible as the time would permit.
If you have the money to loook clean then do so
APkillgamer 4 months ago
@APkillgamer I thought Shaun was relying on his own righteousness as he believes he was a lost sinner. He says he hopes he is deteriorating! No self righteousness as far as I can see. Christ stormed into the temple.
bossendenwoodconvict 4 months ago 2
mormon church has gone almost 200 years without payment to its church officials
APkillgamer 4 months ago
Atheist comments are so annoying telling me religion ridiculous when they can't explain how the whole universe was made I would rather believe that god has always existed then believe all of sudden we appeared here
bobbyraejohnson 5 months ago
Appealing to the lord? lol. Wear all you want! God can see you through and can't hide anything from him.
Chinaculiacan 5 months ago
@Chinaculiacan Can you explain Einstein's Theory of Relativity??
TheSkepticChristian 5 months ago
@TheSkepticChristian theory, formulated essentially by Albert Einstein, that all motion must be defined relative to a frame of reference and that space and time are relative, rather than absolute concepts: it consists of two principal parts. NOW READ THIS. “Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man,” Romans 1:22-23. You can't debate, not when it comes to the word of God.
Chinaculiacan 4 months ago
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@Chinaculiacan How do you know the Bible is the word of God??
TheSkepticChristian 4 months ago
the host of this show is kinda loud
potsocket1 5 months ago
inb4 logic
TheLostRealist513 5 months ago
This is exactly how debate between different religious traditions shouldn't be conducted. Completely unproductive.
bayreuth79 5 months ago
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UNIVERSAL SALVATION was for me a HERESY, people pleasing idea until I saw passages like this.
Romans 5;19 "for as through the disobedience of the one man,THE MANY were constituted sinners: so also through the obedience of the one, shall THE MANY be constituted righteous."
Do you believe it? Hell is NOT the final plan of God. EVERYONE WILL BE SAVED THROUGH JESUS, YES EVERYONE.
motibi 5 months ago
UNIVERSAL SALVATION was for me a HERESY, people pleasing idea until I saw passages like this.
Romans 5;19 "for as through the disobedience of the one man,THE MANY were constituted sinners: so also through the obedience of the one, shall THE MANY be constituted righteous."
Do you believe it? Hell is NOT the final plan of God. EVERYONE WILL BE SAVED THROUGH JESUS, YES EVERYONE.
motibi 5 months ago 2
@motibi Churches will go broke if people aren't afraid of eternal torture anymore.
punchdrunkatheist 5 months ago 7
"My form of Jesus is better than your form of Jesus."
punchdrunkatheist 5 months ago
@motibi lmfao, idiot..
Bucky640 4 months ago
@motibi Romans... the Archaic period... I'm sure they supported Roman 'Gods' apposed to Christian 'Gods'... Where did you get that quote? Illiad? Heroditus? Oddysay? - Anyhow, i'm sure it's refering to their own god's, possible Mars (God of War)? It doesn't really relate to this christian debate as it's on something totally different.
DeVineBlaZin 2 months ago
All religion should be ignored like trolls.
Watchernator 5 months ago
@Watchernator how old is the earth?
"Troll Face": 6000 years
charliepossenriede 5 months ago
you're both wrong
ccrider201 5 months ago
What Shawn is saying is so true. You can dress something up to look so beautiful but it doesnt mean it is true.
TheSoulamore 5 months ago
@TheSoulamore Shawn may be true, but I can prove his arguments wrong, and all his nonsense.
TheSkepticChristian 5 months ago
@TheSkepticChristian I see others prove you wrong all of the time. You are full of yourself and you need to CARE what God believes, so you are leading people to him. So far you are only grasping at straws and making up things. If you want to live in your religion bubble, just take that risk alone and not with the lives of others.
TheSoulamore 5 months ago
@TheSoulamore "I see others prove you wrong all of the time" Thats far from the truth :).
"CARE what God believes" I do, but how about you?
"making up things" Have you heard of Plato philosophy? Who is the one making up things here
Go do some research about Plato's trinity.
TheSkepticChristian 5 months ago
@TheSkepticChristian I go to Jesus!!!!!!!!!!
TheSoulamore 5 months ago
@TheSoulamore I go to Jesus,
but you need to learn the painful truth, for your own good.
"I not only confess but I maintain, such a similitude of Plato's and John's Trinity doctrines as bespeaks a common origin." (Thirteenth letter to Dr. Priestley.)
"The Greeks had a first God, and second God, and third God, and the second was begotten by the first. And yet for all that......they considered all these one." (Mr. Cudworth)
TheSkepticChristian 5 months ago
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TheSoulamore 5 months ago
@TheSoulamore You need to learn the simplicity of the Gospel, you need to come back to Christ church, you are the one that confuses people, and goes in circles. Please open your heart, and look at the simple things, and return to the LDS church, the church of Jesus.
bytheway, there is no evidence that the Hebrews had contact with the Greeks, before Plato. (they did have contact, but after Plato)
TheSkepticChristian 5 months ago
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@TheSkepticChristian Sorry. There is nothing after Jesus took on the sins of the world and he said you had teachers but now you have me. You dont need your Elders and covenants. Its garbage.
TheSoulamore 5 months ago
i got blocked by born again christian rtminestriestv cos he couldnt debate the bible and he's listed under debates in christianity
drugsguru 6 months ago
There is nothing wrong with a man dressing appealing to the Lord, I actually would advocate men to wear shirt and ties.
sgal88 6 months ago
I've been watching this guy for a month, over at hotmtv.com he truly is a wise man and has the goods on this crazy mormon belief.
ezravan 6 months ago
Ed is an idiot. But I do like this guy, the guy that was ex-communicated, my biggest worry or complaint, is that he seems to still be "into" or for a religion (Christianity). I mean, hasn't he learned that his religions and religious doctrines are horrible? I think he would have learned that by the way he has lived, what he has learned and the way he speaks about his life currently and as a Mormon.
MrTrevorMeyer 6 months ago
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TheServiceWeb 6 months ago
How do you know how Jesus look like if you've never seen him. LMAO Fail.
PimpingRice 6 months ago
this guy looks somewhat retarded?
ReverendNillerz 6 months ago
Funny, because they're both wrong. lol. Science > Religion.
kazoorocketman54 6 months ago
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..you have a weapon greater then anything backing you up.. "THE TRUTH".. If they want that badly, sooooo badly they can over look all the evidence andfollow like sheep. That's their hang up. Ignorance is bliss..
unlookful252 6 months ago
Look, if ever comfronted by missionaries (MORMONS READ WHAT I SAY AND TRUELY THINK AND LOOK AT YOURSELVES) simply say.. it is foolish to pray about things you know are not God’s will. It would be wrong of me to pray about whether adultery is right, when the Bible clearly says it is not. Similarly, it would be wrong of me to pray about the Book of Mormon when one can so easily demonstrate that it is not the word of God. They look at you like you hit em in the face with a fucking stick "BUT"
unlookful252 6 months ago
Mormon: "I wear a shirt and tie every day"
Shawn: "I'm sorry"
lol
Keruaran 7 months ago
THIS IS TOO FUNNY!!!
LMFAO!!!
gfscarface13 7 months ago
I want someone to translate this to russian. Many many russians in baptist churches believe that a person is saved by their works! This "Ed" reminds me of some people in my church!
alexsurguy 7 months ago in playlist info_infada
@seamusodaltoon You seem to be a Christain that has had a rough go at it for quite some time. Atheists would try and convince you and I that struggles confirm that God is a product of delusion. I pray God helps you with you're pain...but the Apostle Paul did have that tormenting thorn in the flesh. All I know is their are no simples answers somethings, although some Christains may try and tell us there are. "...for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee." (Heb. 13:5)
55k3v1n 7 months ago
@seamusodaltoon If you're condemned than so am I. My conversion experience was one thing (it is the reason I've been to hang in there during times of discouragement). The conversion experience is one thing, but then comes the walk of faith. I was breezing along for about two years when the trial hit. It seemed God was really with me on something important when it all came crashing down. I've been struggling with various degrees of pain and discouragement for 20+ years. But I still believe-con't
55k3v1n 7 months ago
@seamusodaltoon One of my problems was thinking I had to change my lifestyle to become a Christain. One Sunday, while nursing a hangover, I cried out "What is it God?" God heard that as me asking for His help. I was suddenly filled with the most beautiful, peaceful presense of the Holy Spirit. My hangover disappeared. I picked up the NT and my eyes were opened to understand it. I felt loved and acceptance instead of condemnation. My life changed as a result of God's love, not vice versa.
55k3v1n 7 months ago
wwwdotExposingChristianitydotcom
GahdeMalprigi1488x 7 months ago
@seamusodaltoon Being christened won't do anything Seamus, my friend :). The bible was written by men inspired by the Holy Spirit. Over the course of a few thousand years, men from different parts of middle east, with differing professions, from different cultures wrote pointing toward a messiah coming to save His nation. Prophecies are fulfilled, the bible is the best selling book ever. Friend, simply cry out to God to save you! and He will.
millball 8 months ago
All we are saying
is give peace a chance :D
juanisimoss 8 months ago
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Hey testskriftene please check out my video its pretty rational! THANKS!!
/watch?v=2Ug4CTd_jEY
nanocalp 8 months ago
my gosh. lol. The mormon guy was freaking dumb xD hahaha
JesusMusic93 8 months ago
JESUS NOT MORE THAN A MESENGER.
faithandproof 9 months ago
this guy (not the phone guy) is a dumbass
guineapiggyman 9 months ago
@guineapiggyman why is he a dumbass?
lilbeaveymac 9 months ago
@lilbeaveymac becuz he has no idea WHAT he is talking about. did u even watch this?!
guineapiggyman 9 months ago
@guineapiggyman yeah i watched the whole thing,seems like the guy on the phone is the dumbass.
i have yet to meet a christian or hear one on the phone calls in that says shawn isnt following the bible.
shawn sticks to the word.
hes right when the bible says-trust no enterprise that required new cloths.
the guy on the phone is a typical doucebag.
lilbeaveymac 9 months ago
But he really looks bad. His voice is strident also.
dorisfenella 9 months ago
The theory of evolution does not go beyond science one bit. I am convinced after years of talking with laypeople about this that ALL of their confusion stems from ignorance. The confusion that people propagate is on all levels. Including the worst one, just mentioned by Knight below me, that we argue that evolution is "infallible". These kinds of straw-man critiques are never-ending. The only thing being demonstrated here is how fast people will form opinions without having properly researched.
AR333 10 months ago
Really why do people think the LDS church leaders just keep the money they us that to fund for charities like deseret and they use it to build churches and temples plus our ten percent we do as tithing IS NOT MANDATORY we do it so we can pay for mire temples and churches justlike catholics or christians do that thing were they pass that bowl and people put money
Chrizzz59 10 months ago
I may be an atheist but this guy totally pwned the guy that called into the show, I wish more Christians were like this guy, good message, like the bit about John! Jeez I even feel like sending you a couple of bucks.....keep up the good work and clean up the den of theives we have currently on offer.
Cougar139tweak 10 months ago
@Cougar139tweak Hey, there's a lot of us out there lol. I'm a child of GOD who can't stand religious people with a passion.
juiceeddieshow222 10 months ago
It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than a rich man to enter into the kingdom of heaven.
I wonder if the Moron church leaders ever read that.
chriscoolguy15 11 months ago
@MrHoolits
I was talking about Indians in India as well. Also I agree with you that it's common for people to take their parents' religion, but it's not always the case. There are Christians in Saudi Arabia, but they remain underground to stay alive. But they are willing to die for what they believe to be true - which is a mark of an honest person.
Generalizing all religions is also a fallacy. I'm saying to stay open and not discount everything - it's not rational as they're all different.
Kiithknight 11 months ago
@Kiithknight, Agree, it's not always the case. If Christian in Saudi Arabia, you better hide, but why do they hide their faith. If they are truly honest and are willing to die for their beliefs, why are they hiding? Sounds like they don't trust their faith in Jesus.
Now as an Agnostic, I do not believe in stories written by those from the Bronze Age. I believe in evolution & that there are 400 billion galaxies and our Milky way is 100,000 light years wide & 1,000 light years deep.
MrHoolits 11 months ago
@MrHoolits
Think about it from a practical sense. I'm sure those Christians in SA, if asked, would tell the truth and die for it. But what good is it to go out into the street and shout until you get stoned to death? That's just a waste; staying underground allows them to live and grow spiritually while allowing them the chance to share to friends and family and possibly changing some minds and hearts.
Again Chronological Snobbery and false generalizations. Investigate instead of dismiss.
Kiithknight 11 months ago
@MrHoolits
Also by evolution do you mean the Theory of Evolution? I'm sure most rational people believe in adaptation, but the extrapolation to one kind of creature becoming another kind over millions of years is taken on faith - there's no scientific evidence for it. It's a kind of faith I can't muster. What I gather from the other things, however, is that you believe what you see. That's fine as long as you keep your eyes open instead of using fallacies to selectively shut them.
Kiithknight 11 months ago
@Kiithknight, If you believe in ancient myths rather than scientific proof fine. I'm not going to argue with you. If you get a chance, visit the Smithsonian museum of natural history. We have DNA, fossils & skeleton remains. It's faith vs facts. As far as keeping an open mind, yours is closed as you believe these ancient myths. I'll choose Science over someone claiming they are the son of god.
If you wish to know the basis of your faith watch:
" Where did Jesus come from" on Youtube.
MrHoolits 11 months ago
@MrHoolits
I love science. The problem is that ToE is not science. DNA just as easily evidences common design as common ancestor, and fossils mean nothing since you can't prove they had offspring, can't prove the offspring was different, and can't prove that difference was passed on. We don't see macroevolution happening, so it can't be science; science must be observed. My mind is tested every day and my relationship with Yeshua always gets reinforced. I challenge you to look into your faith.
Kiithknight 11 months ago
@Kiithknight "The problem is that ToE is not science."
Wrong.
AR333 10 months ago
@AR333
Boy you sure made a case there. You totally refuted everything I said in that post. You addressed my philosophical point on the nature of DNA evidences, the fossil record, and the lack of any observation of it happening - I must concede everything. Actually you're making the positive claim here, so show me how macroevolution is observed science and not just conjecture.
Kiithknight 10 months ago
@Kiithknight I did make a positive case, and hence the burden of proof is the one who asserts. That is right. But this isn't a 500-character-limit type of thing. In fact, by stating that evolution is not a science, there are 2 major terms in there that need to be clarified to you, evolution, and science. To say evolution is not a science is to gravely misunderstand both terms. I can't help you. I can't teach you calculus if you don't know basic arithmetic. You need to learn about this.
AR333 10 months ago
@AR333
This just shows that you didn't read anything else in my conversation with MrHoolits before picking out one thing I said and saying "wrong". Look at the context of what I said. I gave reasons for why it is not scientific, mainly that it hasn't been observed. Something not observed cannot be science by definition. Also I said adaptation (microevolution) is observed and scientific, but macroevolution is not. I defined my terms. Reply to my channel to bypass the character limit.
Kiithknight 10 months ago
@Kiithknight You do know there's a difference between direct and indirect observations right? That's just a sidenote, cause you keep using that word as if it was one thing. I think by observed you really mean to say falsifiable, and that, sorry, whatever you view of evolution is, it is.
You say micro has been observed and not macro. Look, I've dealt with people who use this one-liner in 2000. It's 2011 and now there are public resources you can find to show why this is wrong. Have you tried?
AR333 10 months ago
@AR333
Of course there are differences. However I'm saying it has never been observed either way. We see changes within kinds of animals (ex different breeds of chickens), but to extrapolate from that and say that one kind becomes another is pure imagination with no evidence. There are limits that we've never observed being crossed. If and until we see those limits crossed, macroevolution is not science. Give me one example of maroevolution - I can't find one.
Kiithknight 10 months ago
@Kiithknight You can't find one? You haven't tried. Jesus Christ, it's as simple as googling it. This is practically the equivalent of you looking froward, me telling you hey look the fossils are behind you, and you replying "where? I don't see them", without having turned around. Try looking first, it's not as esoteric or non-existent as creationist propaganda will tell you. Start with the wikipedia article for macroevolution, and read the "misuse" heading. READ IT or shut up. Read the refs too
AR333 10 months ago
@AR333
I still can't find one after reading what you asked me to read. I checked the resources on TalkOrigins as well. I'm not saying there is no speciation, but "species" is a loose term anyway, and it's also presumptuous to think that our imposed organization of nature reflects nature perfectly. There are changes, and that's fine, but to extrapolate and say that life evolved from one ancestor is pure speculation. It's ontology, not science. Whether or not it's true, it's not science.
Kiithknight 10 months ago
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Kiithknight 10 months ago
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Kiithknight 10 months ago
@AR333
This is why I said "kind" instead of "species". If you mean macroevolution as speciation, then I agree that takes place. However you can't with a straight face tell me that our classification of organisms is perfect - it may be completely off. Point is ToE states that life evolved from a common ancestor, and you can't back that up with anything but conjecture. It's a question of how modern life forms came "to be", which is ontology. It's a separate branch of philosophy from science.
Kiithknight 10 months ago
@Kiithknight The definition of species is not clear-cut, but that in no way supports any creationist assertion. It's not as if we have no clue at all and all of it is conjecture. Sorry but you really do need to learn more before stating such a huge blanket statement as "evolution is not a science". And "kind" is not a scientific term. That's the third time you lead any reader to believe you are ill-informed about this. Really, continue learning about this, that's my only advice.
AR333 10 months ago
@AR333
I'm not saying it supports creationism. I'm saying that it is not infallible, so to make extrapolations off of it does not mean one is correct. Also I am not saying evolution is not science, but the ToE is not science because it tries to answer a question of ontology. It sees life and asks how it came to be [as we see it now]. "Kind" is not scientific - I never claimed it was. Like species, there is no solid definition. I go with that which can interbreed (ex: dogs and wolves).
Kiithknight 10 months ago
@Kiithknight "It sees life and asks how it came to be [as we see it now]."
Notice that the first part of that sentence is entirely misleading. It does not talk about the genesis of life, so there's no reason why that last part should be bracketed. Now your use of the word theory is in question too, because if you are in the end only stuck on common ancestry, then look at phylogeny. And sorry but that attempt at linking the merits of the term species with "kind" was a new rhetorical low.
AR333 10 months ago
@AR333
I'm not saying it deals with how the first life originated, but rather how the life that we see now came to be - thus the brackets for clarification. My definition of theory as it related to science is: an attempt to explain the how of an observed law. The problem is that there is no law about which to theorize. Phylogeny is fascinating, but it just as readily proves common design as ancestry, so it's not strong imo.
Kiithknight 10 months ago
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@Kiithknight "but it just as readily proves common design as ancestry"
And you say evolution isn't a science? You're taking things into metaphysics now. It by no means implies design. If that conclusion is what you reach, it is not from the evidence. The evidence says common ancestor. Period. From that if you want to say something more, you can say it was the silver surfer as much as it was god. Occam's razor, verificationism and falsifiability nullify your position.
AR333 10 months ago
@Kiithknight Just as readily proves common designer? K, wow. You keep going lower and lower. You were the one talking about WHERE THE SCIENCE LEADS. Phylogeny, strictly speaking, gives you common ancestry. If you get the common designer idea from that, then that belief is not one coming solely from the evidence. You could just as well say it was the silver surfer who did it as much as you can say god did it. You're bringing this into metaphysics, but you show no understanding of that either.
AR333 10 months ago
@AR333
I already stated all this with MrHoolits. I'm not talking about where science leads - I'm talking about whether or not it's science at all. Phylogeny tells you that some things share common traits, but that by no means tells you they came from a common ancestor. They MAY have, but they also MAY have been designed similarly. Also it's funny you're bringing God into this; I haven't. A designer could mean an alien, but the point is that similarity (esp. of INFORMATION) begs for intelligence.
Kiithknight 10 months ago
@Kiithknight "Phylogeny tells you that some things share common traits, but that by no means tells you they came from a common ancestor."
No, it doesn't. Go talk to professionals or read the journals. If you cared, you'd find it. You think you're the first person I talk to that uses these arguments? Do you know what happens in my experience when I bring them the physical journals that have these conclusions? It doesn't matter. You have an a priori conviction. Stop pretending it's evidential.
AR333 10 months ago
@AR333
Also I don't see it as low to liken species and kind as being ambiguous - they both are. What defines a species is not agreed upon except in the most general sense.
Also please know I'm not debating this on religious grounds. I didn't believe in ToE before I became a Christian. I see it as a big leap out of science, and while it may or may not be true, it's not science because it's not been observed.
Kiithknight 10 months ago
@Kiithknight And I'm getting fed up with you moving the goal post. First it's no observation, then it's no observation for MACRO, then it's "okay there's speciation, but that's still not what I'm looking for", then you bring up common ancestry, then I give you phylogeny, then you say this can be interpreted for god too. Your presupposition is staggering and unshakeable. Please do not come at me stating that your complaints are scientific. QED.
AR333 10 months ago
@AR333
Again this is all with MrHoolits, I have to backtrack with you. There is no good definition of species, so I'm using kind (life which can interbreed). Speciation occurs (dogs and wolves), but this in no way evidences that life evolved from a single organism over millions of years. I would still consider that microevolution. We have only ever seen chickens produce chickens, flies-flies, dogs-dogs, etc. There is no evidence they are becoming something else or came from anything else.
Kiithknight 10 months ago
@AR333
In short: Regardless of whether all species came from one life form and continues to branch into other kinds (things which cannot interbreed) through gaining information (never been seen) by beneficial mutations (haven't seen that either) is true or not, ToE is not science because it hasn't been observed. It's ontological, which is another branch of philosophy altogether.
Beyond that, evolution is certainly true. We've seen it. But to go beyond what we see leaves the realm of science.
Kiithknight 10 months ago
@MrHoolits
I don't want to go into a big Evolution debate right now, so I'll leave it at that. I'll just say what I said before and we'll be done: stay open-minded and don't discount things based on fallacies.
YHWH bless you.
Kiithknight 11 months ago
@Kiithknight, Since you asked my to stay open-minded, I ask you to watch on Youtube: Where did Jesus come from
For me, I need proof and will keep the same ideas of religion as John Adams & Thomas Jefferson.
MrHoolits 11 months ago
@MrHoolits
I'll do that later today when I get the chance. I probably won't post back here if there's anything insightful, but I will put it on my channel page or PM you.
Kiithknight 11 months ago
2 Timothy 2:23-24 (New International Version, ©2011)
23 Don’t have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels. 24 And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful.
heavyladen1 11 months ago
@thesentinelonline As far as religion, If your parents were Baptist you would be Baptist or parents Jewish, you would be Jewish, if Mormon, you would be Mormon and so ..
If born in India, you would be Hindu or born in the middle east probably Muslin and you would be whatever religion is prominent in that country.
Religion is based on chance of your parents country.
All religions believe their God is the true God and all are based in ancient myths.
I no longer believe in ancient myths.
MrHoolits 1 year ago
@MrHoolits
I know Indians who are now Christian. I know Americans who grew up in a Christian home and are now Muslim. I know a girl whose parents are Atheist and she became a Christian. Background does not necessarily determine worldview.
Also you're committing a fallacy called Chronological Snobbery. Discounting a belief because it's old isn't logical. Constantly look into all you can and never discount everything. Every belief system has to be taken individually because they're all different.
Kiithknight 11 months ago
@Kiithknight, I take the Indians you speak of live in the U.S. How many Indians in INDIA are becoming Christians. Was I discounting a belief? Can you honestly tell me those in India & Israel and in the U.S. do not keep the same religion as their parents?
There are exceptions to all rules but the majority will still stick with their families religion as I did until I became an Agnostic.
I no longer believe in ancient myths written in the Bronze Age by those who wish to manipulate people.
MrHoolits 11 months ago
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Kiithknight 11 months ago
@MrHoolits
No I'm talking about Indians from India. I'll agree that many people just follow their parents' beliefs blindly, but can you really say they are a part of it? I'm sorry but I don't consider someone a Christian if they only hold the title because of birth and didn't actually choose it for their self.
See, you're committing to your fallacy. Also the burden of proof is on you to show it was meant to manipulate. If you read the Bible, it goes against social control of the people.
Kiithknight 11 months ago
@Kiithknight, I was talking about Indians still living in India not the Bobby Jindals. If you were Saudi Arabian you would be a Sunni Muslim. If born in Israel & parents Jewish, you would be a Jew. If you were born to someone in the deep jungles of the Amazon, you would believe in whatever religion is prevalent.
Religion is mostly based on CHANCE & where you live, of course there are exceptions. Each religion claims their God is the real God. To me, no religion is better than the other.
MrHoolits 11 months ago
@thesentinelonline, I thought this guy was Jim Brown. The comments I made was me thinking he was Jim Brown as you mention his name and thought your were defending him.
Don't know who Jim Brown is and thanks, as an Atheist and bothers me when I see people claiming they represent or know what God thinks even if there was one.
Like you it really bothers me when people get extremely wealthy on the backs of people with meager earnings.
MrHoolits 1 year ago
@thesentinelonline, I've only seen this one clip & do not know anything about Jim Brown. I was more commenting on LDS or any religious corporation claiming they have the right from God to excommunicate and feel bad for anyone gullible to believe they can be excommunicated.
Jim commented on the wealth of LDS and I was agreeing but added TV Evangelist. The worst is BILLIONAIRE Pat Robertson who is on TV everyday asking money from those with meager earnings. All that wealth yet begs for more.
MrHoolits 1 year ago
that guy is a fkn asshole
RuniJensen 1 year ago
Shawn te estas deteroriando? looking like crap? that was spanish for Deterring !! jajajajajaja.. YOU GO SHAWN MACRANEY!!!!!!! YOU GO SIR, KEEP GOING, I KNOW YOU ARE MERCYFUL, AND SMART, AND HOMBLE, I LOV HOW YOU TALK TO ED, LOVE IT, P ASSIONATE MAN!! IN ORDER TO DO THAT YOU HAVE TO BE PASSIONATE, AND U R SHAWN!!!!!!!! ED GET OVER IT, YOU SOUND SO SELF RIGHTOUS
Chinaculiacan 1 year ago
@MsMariah61 :) for them is hard to understand it.
Chinaculiacan 1 year ago
Locust ≠ Grasshopper.
The Honey Locust is a tree.
71cKwl 1 year ago
which cult does the host belong to?
i thought the host is from moron cult and the caller is from christian cult, but at the end it seemed otherwise.
either way its funny to see two robots arguing with each other,
both stuck in a never ending loop.
both of them run the code and if there was no time limit for the air time they would never stop
while( opponent.speaks == true){ disbandReason(); reciteThayBook(); discardIncomingInfo(everything);
}
UninstallingWindows 1 year ago
you have to be blunt when your speaking to a Mormon
danzerguy 1 year ago
Host is too defensive.
FastbackJon 1 year ago
I think this host is kind of a dummy. In reference to John the Baptist, I don't think the caller would have looked down upon him, because that is what everyone looked like back then. Duh. It's not like Ed (the caller) and John the Baptist can live in two different times. Lol.
geigernator09 1 year ago
lol. You religon heads are so funny to watch.
VajinalBloodFart 1 year ago
He sounds like the DEVIL to me...Oh Wait....Devil is man-made....
Thinking of changing religions is like thinking of changing deck chairs on the Titanic...
donlaxner 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
What a bunch of fags
MangleMii 1 year ago
alright i am not mormon and i am Christian, but what you do doesn't make u a better guy then someone who cant or has never done anything. and who the fuck cares what you did to get you book asshole. way to look like a dick and also its a sacrifice? not if your bragging about it.
twister123ify 1 year ago
Mormons are truly a tragic group of people . The amount of incest and finacial cons are staggering . Mormonism , of course , was a con to begin with . Many children's lives have been ruined because of this disgusting religion . Many evil men have been attracted to the "Mormon lifestyle " of multiple wives and subjugation of women . The poor young men who waste years of their life spreading this filth usually grow up to deeply regret doing so .
MindofaJedi 1 year ago
This guy is judging and being angry to the caller. Didn't Jesus teach us to love our neighbour, another, judge yourself before other. Both these guys don't seem to know the bible or follow Yeshua's words. May God open their eyes to the truth and light.
royalsteven 1 year ago
I have those same coffee mugs!
ArmadaEmporium 1 year ago
regardless, anyone who sees this must see the evil...blind seared hell bound listen listen..listen watch the video ..stop...think...now, inside is it christian? alrightythen. i hate THEE best. & i know the true gospel ..it isnt here.. this is where to find truth standingthegap dont 4get the org ...but lets disregard my comment rather retaliate proving this motivation.. i hate THEE best.. pitty is, some may actually heed & freekout on how a wretch like myself knows
dubvishun 1 year ago
you are all fucking faggots
GOD DOENST EXIST
restorationsanity 1 year ago
Keep yourself from having an audience such as this, it will fill ur heart with pride mocking and insulting others isn't the way to send a friendly message to come unto Christ.
RyuzakiLRyuuga 1 year ago
the host is an angry christian. why all the anger? hmmmmm.....
teygrxx 1 year ago
@teygrxx I suppose the callers I.Q., or lack there of, has something to do with it..
theboofooguy 1 year ago
@teygrxx
cos mormons are fucked :)
waterszappa 1 year ago
Very well I shall leave you to your conversation with a parting shot - it behoves you to prove supernatural activity, not me to disprove it! Peace.
ColonelGaypenguin 1 year ago
You were a product... so what is Glenn Beck?
Sk8er408 1 year ago
There has never been any human being that has has a 2 way conversation with "God". Any person masquerading as a middleman or spokesperson for God is either delusional or a liar protecting the assets & profits of a religious corporation. Anyone who believes they can excommunicate or can be excommunicated has been completely brainwashed.
I feel for the gullible & naive who allow those that claim to be talking for God and ask for monetary donations like TV Evangelists claiming to heal.
MrHoolits 1 year ago 8
@MrHoolits I agree with you 100% Why would God need 10% of what you make? Do they use Dollars or Euros in Heaven? Your assessment is spot on..
theboofooguy 1 year ago
@MrHoolits "There has never been any human being that has has a 2 way conversation with "God"." Whew! That's a relief, I was afraid for a minute that Moses and Jesus were on to something. Good to know I don't have to worry about that shit.
MrMZaccone 1 year ago
@MrHoolits well, no person has ever had a private audience with god, because god DOESNT exist. why is that so hard for people to get?
guineapiggyman 9 months ago
@guineapiggyman, Years of indoctrination starting from childhood and never questioning or thinking about the things written in the bible. If someone today claimed said snakes, donkeys & burning bushes talk most would not believe. The one thing in the bible is consistent. When god speaks to Moses, Noah, ect,, they are always alone and never witnesses.
I'll never understand how Jim Jones, David Koresh, Politicians, Politicians, Televangelists & others can get people to believe god spoke to them.
MrHoolits 9 months ago
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watitis2012 1 year ago
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ColonelGaypenguin 1 year ago
There is little more ridiculous than religious devotees arguing over the moral high ground. It is of course inevitable that they will disagree since each feels only he is following the true path which proves, to me at least, that there is no true path. Their unseemly and utterly pointless squabble is indicative of a typical alpha male dispute and serves only to create division and disharmony amongst previously good spirited people. Religion is so childish!
ColonelGaypenguin 1 year ago
@ColonelGaypenguin So then why does one of your advanced aptitude, waste his time trolling such videos. Who's more ridiculous? Those who debate such things, or those that waste their time reading and commenting on these "childish" debates?
theboofooguy 1 year ago
@theboofooguy If I am a troll then so are you! I have as much right to comment as anyone else.I simply represent a point of view which may not be welcome to you but might give others pause for thought. Religious people don't rationally consider their position; they have a loyal, tribal mentality towards baseless, illogical and often immoral ancient teachings they call wisdom. Most people have their own localised version of religious dogma imposed on them from birth and it's time to stop the rot!
ColonelGaypenguin 1 year ago
@ColonelGaypen Based on your logic,I must assume that your educational backround disallows your ability to understand a higher being.This is your prerogative.However,the imposition of such a mentality on those in obvious disagreement is at best,ridiculous.Your assessment of this debate as childish only reinforces my assessment that for you to intervene with a view that is not accepted by either sect is nothing but an attempt to demean both.This is neither effective or welcome.Troll elsewhere.
theboofooguy 1 year ago