"hightenor123" is having to defend his very reasonable position and many detractors seem to feel that the only legitimate singers of Italian opera are Italians.
Opera was born in Italy and GIVEN TO THE WORLD. We must remember that there are many more opera lovers outside Italy than in it and they look for different qualities.
E.G. that Chenier was a FRENCH POET. Most Italian spintos seem to bring more heroics than poetics to the rôle. Fine for the music not for the character.
Long live Jonas Kaufmann and his imagination. I can't believe the anger, the jealousy the hate and the rage... I think it is fair to not like something, fair to find it disappointing or not to your taste. But these singers, giving their life to opera, making it live with their voices and YES also their techniques... be grateful, you are watching this for free. I LOVE opera, I love old voices and new voices, unique techniques and classic techniques....
@hightenor123 It looks like you're trying to convince yourself. No need to. He's wonderful. But I would like to add that every singer is unique, in a way. Every singer has a unique voice of his own. And I wouldn't like the idea of people not sharing your view of Kaufmann's voice being wonderful being dismissed as angry, hateful, jealous or full of rage. Sometimes it's just a matter of taste. Either you like a voice or not.
@visse264 I totally agree with people right to dislike or find fault with a singer, I just feel like the rancor and bad energy is huge on a lot of these operatic posts. Full of bloviating rants and monosyllabic dismissals. I wish that I didn't need to feel like a newb every time I defended a modern singer. (In fact I have studied the greats at great length) ---Chris
@hightenor123 I see what you mean. Sometimes people fail to explain why they dislike, as is the case with monosyllabic dismissals like 'Disgusting'. And some people who don't like a particular singer feel the need to comment on each particular clip of this singer, just to make a bald statement. I don't like these kind of things either.
Italians have the language,an advantage sure, yes so many great Italian tenors given to us but in this opera Tucker is the Best non Italian, equal or better than any. Kuafmann is on top of the tenor line up Now. I have to agree with Vinyl as far as today compared to what we had in the past because of teachers and the rush singing heavy roles so soon, but yes being Italian is an advantage in Italian opera but then Oh for Bjorling, Tucker, Peerce, Shicoff, Kraus, Warren, Merrill, many others!
¡Apaga y vámonos! Si este es el mejor Chenier que se puede escuchar en los escenarios, mejor no programarla. Have you ever heard to sing a really Chenier?
I agree with Baritanist. Kaufmann's voice is absolutely THROATY, it hasn't a good proyection to head. Products of marketing
I have heard Kaufmann in house live and here he seems to lack the spark here to make this great and that could be the fact it's a Studio recording and not a live performance which many singers need to get that emotion going. His English is very good, like a native American but as far as his Italian I would imagine it to be fine, don't speak it fluently so I wouldn't be the judge of that. Today what's going on is the dumbing down of opera, picking for looks and sets is sad. Some Amplify also.
@vinyltovideo Your post is the best of any I ever heard IMO of this duet with Tucker and Tebaldi singing in 1960 at the met. Tucker was not Italian but was as great or greater then any Italian tenor or other in the role. Listened to your post just now and liked it from Both singers. Tucker's voice was huge, on top especially.
What music! It's so powerful. It gets me every time... But a remark towards the jailor: that's not the way you'd call out somebody's name to get them on a carriage to be guillotined...
A brave effort, but this is NOT Andrea Chenier. You need the passion of a live stage to bring this fabulous duet to life. They are both quite good but possess none of the Italianita and elegance required. His tone is too dark, phrasing too closed. If you want to really hear what this overwhelmingly powerful, beautiful scene must sound like, please refer to del Monaco and Callas (live, Scala 1955) and del Monaco and Tebaldi (studio 1957). The latter version is SUBLIME and remains unequalled.
@philipc67 Yes the Del Monaco-Tebaldi and Gavazzeni conducting recorded in Roma in 1957 is terrific. Tebaldi is in endless voice and Del Monaco too.After listening the power of Tebaldi and Del Monaco in 1957 this Kaufmann and Westbroek anemic version is depressive
@visse264 Went to Houston Grand Operas staging of Auriadne auf Naxos. Christine Goerke, Laura Claycomb, and Susan Graham were amazing. I am so glad we have young singers who are continuing to bring us live opera that is outstanding. I am so glad we don't just listen to the people of the past or we would never have opera's to attend. I agree with you. So thankful for our new singers. And by the way, I think these two are fantastic.
@spizzell1 It will not come as a surprise to you that I agree. I feel it is just not logical to believe there wouldn't be any operatic talent these days. Why shouldn't there be? What is so different with the past? It just doesn't make sense to me. In the past we've had some legends, of course, but later on some of todays singers will be seen like this. Being prejudiced is never a good idea. Just go out and see. Like you did.
I have to admit, you probably know a lot more about singers of the past than I do. I know of a number, of course. But I'm more into singers of the present. The fact that you don't know Ms. Westbroek, one of the most in demand sopranos these days, leads me to believe you're not very much interested in today''s singers eiither. Taking more interest in them doesn't necessarily mean liking them, but chances are you'll discover new talents. Opera is still alive.
@visse264 Not for me. If this is one of the most in demand sopranos today I'll definitely be sticking with the old recordings of Ponselle, Rethberg, Tebaldi, Milanov, and the likes.
@VinylToVideo I don't really care about whatever you like. It's just so strange for someone to just live in the past, and to not acknowledge the talent that exists nowadays. And it looks to me it is difficult to judge about it if you don't even know some of them. That's all I wanted to say, basically. No offense meant, in any way.
@visse264 I don't live in the past. Listening to a recording made 50 years ago is no different than listening to a recording made today. Why wouldn't I listen to the one with the better singers/artists?
@VinylToVideo I refuse to think only the past has produced great singers. There is no logical explanation for it. If you refuse to listen to the great singers of today, feel free to do so, of course. I just feel this 'behavior' cannot be explained by a lack of talent these days, that's all. But everyone should listen to what he or she likes, of course.
@visse264 I don't "refuse to listen to the.. ..singers of today;" if that were the case I never would have ended up here. The point's already been made that when I do listen to them, I am disappointed time and time again. I also do not care who you like or listen to but if you care to hear what is in my opinion a memorable performance of this duet, go to my page and it will play. That performance speaks for itself. I'm not wasting more time with this endless line of commenting. Have a nice life.
@VinylToVideo You could have stopped this line of commenting a lot earlier, by just admitting that saying Opera is dead is, in fact, nonsense. Even if you prefer previous singers. Have a nice return to former times.
@visse264 You're a fucking idiot. Again, LISTENING TO A RECORDING MADE 50 YEARS AGO IS NO DIFFERENT THAN LISTENING TO ONE MADE TODAY. I never have nor will I ever attend an opera so recordings are all I have; why not listen to the absolute best singers possible? Today looks, acting, and sets come before voices. I would never admit to something that is false. Get a life and shut the fuck up already.
@visse264 You obviously want to get the last word but it isn't going to happen if you want to call my opinion nonsense. Stop sitting on your ears and listen to some real singers or drop dead.
@VinylToVideo Ok honestly, I generally don't like to interfere. But telling other people to "drop dead" and "shut the fuck up" is really pushing it. Please stop.
Also, I commend the recording engineers for not hindering us with overblown voices and phony sound, typical of many operatic studio recordings of the last several decades. This is how a studio recording should sound.
@VinylToVideo That doesn't really sound very logical to me. It's okay to be disappointed with it, of course. I don't really agree, but that's fine. But it is somewhat strange, to me, to not expect anything of these two talented singers. Talent and opera is dead? It is hard for me to believe you're serious about this. But I assume you are. Again, it is not really logical to think that only the past would have produced talents. Aren't you a bit nostalgic?
@visse264 Nostalgic? No, I just like singers that actually had great voices and solid techniques who weren't hired because they are attractive and can carry an aria. Kaufmann's voice has little resonance or squillo, is not Italianate, and his diction is unclear. Never heard of Westbroek before this but she is of similar skill and accomplishment I'm sure. This is subtle, passionless, and an overall forgettable performance though not necessarily a boring one.
Diese Beiden sind das Beste, was ich in den letzten jahren gehört habe. Natürlich gab es früher bessere, aber diese beiden können wir noch anfassen und fühlen und sie geben einfach alles... dafür lieben wir sie... Und nun kommen Sie mir nicht wieder mit der Callas und Corelli, das ist ein alter Hut!"!!
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
"To imply that only Italians can sing this well is more than stupid -it speaks ignorance ..."
These is ANOTHER EXAMPLE of hidden racism against mediterranean people!
We Latins have a singing tradition - THE singing tradition - that is the most exquisite, specific and inimitable.
You F*c#ck Nordics love to think that you know and can do anything better than anyone...These 2 are at their limits, vocally and stylistically - their italian is garbled and their singing technique is good for....what?
@albekling Hidden racism??? Than I suppose it is that well hidden that it is impossible for me to discover it... "To imply that Nordics love to think that they know and can do anything better than anyone is... etc. etc."
POR FAVOR; ESCUCHEN LA INTERPRETACIO DE MARIO DEL MONACO Y MARIA CALLAS EN LA REPRESENTACION EN LA SCALA EL AÑO 1955 o en su lugar la de FRANCO CORELLI Y RENATA TEBALDI EN VIENA, CON KARAJAN DIRIGIENDO, ESO SI " ANDREA CHENIER"
@sisifus100 Yes, but there "recordings" have stood the test of time! How many disappear without a trace. The greatest survive, even when they are dead.
@sisifus100 And as we lose the last few singers of the second golden age also dead is something we'll never get back: talent on the operatic stage. Sure these two are alive but unfortunately opera is dead.
To imply that only Italians can sing this well is more than stupid -it speaks ignorance - the duet carries itself and as long as the singers have the range it works- both here are road tour calibre a
lot of yelling but little music and that dreadful strangulated sound from Kaufmann ...and 2nd. rate conducting .......leave much to be desired.
Estupenda interpretación. Dos voces magníficamente conjuntadas y capaces de imponerse a la gran orquestación de Giordano. La pronunciación de ambos cantantes, pese a su procedencia germana, es magnífica. Además, cantan con mucha intención y gusto, respetando las dinámicas y mostrándose dulces y elegíacos donde hace falta, y heroicos donde se necesita. Así pues, interpretación muy canónica y destacable. Habría que oírlos en directo, pero parece evidente que no siempre lo pasado es lo mejor.
"hightenor123" is having to defend his very reasonable position and many detractors seem to feel that the only legitimate singers of Italian opera are Italians.
Opera was born in Italy and GIVEN TO THE WORLD. We must remember that there are many more opera lovers outside Italy than in it and they look for different qualities.
E.G. that Chenier was a FRENCH POET. Most Italian spintos seem to bring more heroics than poetics to the rôle. Fine for the music not for the character.
TedinNY 2 weeks ago
Long live Jonas Kaufmann and his imagination. I can't believe the anger, the jealousy the hate and the rage... I think it is fair to not like something, fair to find it disappointing or not to your taste. But these singers, giving their life to opera, making it live with their voices and YES also their techniques... be grateful, you are watching this for free. I LOVE opera, I love old voices and new voices, unique techniques and classic techniques....
hightenor123 1 month ago
@hightenor123 P.S I have heard Kaufmann live and is very very unique and wonderful
hightenor123 1 month ago
@hightenor123 It looks like you're trying to convince yourself. No need to. He's wonderful. But I would like to add that every singer is unique, in a way. Every singer has a unique voice of his own. And I wouldn't like the idea of people not sharing your view of Kaufmann's voice being wonderful being dismissed as angry, hateful, jealous or full of rage. Sometimes it's just a matter of taste. Either you like a voice or not.
visse264 1 month ago
@visse264 I totally agree with people right to dislike or find fault with a singer, I just feel like the rancor and bad energy is huge on a lot of these operatic posts. Full of bloviating rants and monosyllabic dismissals. I wish that I didn't need to feel like a newb every time I defended a modern singer. (In fact I have studied the greats at great length) ---Chris
hightenor123 1 month ago
@hightenor123 I see what you mean. Sometimes people fail to explain why they dislike, as is the case with monosyllabic dismissals like 'Disgusting'. And some people who don't like a particular singer feel the need to comment on each particular clip of this singer, just to make a bald statement. I don't like these kind of things either.
visse264 1 month ago
It is the conductor who is at fault - he makes noise with the orchestra instead of music
it has no momentum singers are left at sea - the drama is gone .....
dziady1 1 month ago
Esto no es ANDREA CHENIER, ni Verismo ni nada de nada, es un aburrimiente total, QUÉ DIFICIL ES LA OPERA ITALIANA !!!!!
Maripudelmonaco 2 months ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Disgusting.
MrCafiero 3 months ago
Italians have the language,an advantage sure, yes so many great Italian tenors given to us but in this opera Tucker is the Best non Italian, equal or better than any. Kuafmann is on top of the tenor line up Now. I have to agree with Vinyl as far as today compared to what we had in the past because of teachers and the rush singing heavy roles so soon, but yes being Italian is an advantage in Italian opera but then Oh for Bjorling, Tucker, Peerce, Shicoff, Kraus, Warren, Merrill, many others!
SHICOFF1 3 months ago
Großartig !
Gefühlvoll und einfach wunderschön gesungen !!
Sylt1954 3 months ago in playlist VARIOUS SINGERS from YouTube
¡Apaga y vámonos! Si este es el mejor Chenier que se puede escuchar en los escenarios, mejor no programarla. Have you ever heard to sing a really Chenier?
I agree with Baritanist. Kaufmann's voice is absolutely THROATY, it hasn't a good proyection to head. Products of marketing
Manondesgrieux 4 months ago
I have heard Kaufmann in house live and here he seems to lack the spark here to make this great and that could be the fact it's a Studio recording and not a live performance which many singers need to get that emotion going. His English is very good, like a native American but as far as his Italian I would imagine it to be fine, don't speak it fluently so I wouldn't be the judge of that. Today what's going on is the dumbing down of opera, picking for looks and sets is sad. Some Amplify also.
SHICOFF1 4 months ago
@vinyltovideo Your post is the best of any I ever heard IMO of this duet with Tucker and Tebaldi singing in 1960 at the met. Tucker was not Italian but was as great or greater then any Italian tenor or other in the role. Listened to your post just now and liked it from Both singers. Tucker's voice was huge, on top especially.
SHICOFF1 4 months ago
What music! It's so powerful. It gets me every time... But a remark towards the jailor: that's not the way you'd call out somebody's name to get them on a carriage to be guillotined...
silvr94 5 months ago
Kaufman has a SMALL and THROATY voice.
Baritanist 5 months ago
A brave effort, but this is NOT Andrea Chenier. You need the passion of a live stage to bring this fabulous duet to life. They are both quite good but possess none of the Italianita and elegance required. His tone is too dark, phrasing too closed. If you want to really hear what this overwhelmingly powerful, beautiful scene must sound like, please refer to del Monaco and Callas (live, Scala 1955) and del Monaco and Tebaldi (studio 1957). The latter version is SUBLIME and remains unequalled.
philipc67 5 months ago
@philipc67 Yes the Del Monaco-Tebaldi and Gavazzeni conducting recorded in Roma in 1957 is terrific. Tebaldi is in endless voice and Del Monaco too.After listening the power of Tebaldi and Del Monaco in 1957 this Kaufmann and Westbroek anemic version is depressive
caleche78 5 months ago
@caleche78 Don't forget to check the broadcast recording of this duet with Tebaldi and Tucker at the Met in 1960, posted by me.
VinylToVideo 4 months ago
@visse264 Went to Houston Grand Operas staging of Auriadne auf Naxos. Christine Goerke, Laura Claycomb, and Susan Graham were amazing. I am so glad we have young singers who are continuing to bring us live opera that is outstanding. I am so glad we don't just listen to the people of the past or we would never have opera's to attend. I agree with you. So thankful for our new singers. And by the way, I think these two are fantastic.
spizzell1 6 months ago
@spizzell1 It will not come as a surprise to you that I agree. I feel it is just not logical to believe there wouldn't be any operatic talent these days. Why shouldn't there be? What is so different with the past? It just doesn't make sense to me. In the past we've had some legends, of course, but later on some of todays singers will be seen like this. Being prejudiced is never a good idea. Just go out and see. Like you did.
visse264 6 months ago
I have to admit, you probably know a lot more about singers of the past than I do. I know of a number, of course. But I'm more into singers of the present. The fact that you don't know Ms. Westbroek, one of the most in demand sopranos these days, leads me to believe you're not very much interested in today''s singers eiither. Taking more interest in them doesn't necessarily mean liking them, but chances are you'll discover new talents. Opera is still alive.
visse264 6 months ago
@visse264 Not for me. If this is one of the most in demand sopranos today I'll definitely be sticking with the old recordings of Ponselle, Rethberg, Tebaldi, Milanov, and the likes.
VinylToVideo 6 months ago
@VinylToVideo I don't really care about whatever you like. It's just so strange for someone to just live in the past, and to not acknowledge the talent that exists nowadays. And it looks to me it is difficult to judge about it if you don't even know some of them. That's all I wanted to say, basically. No offense meant, in any way.
visse264 6 months ago
@visse264 I don't live in the past. Listening to a recording made 50 years ago is no different than listening to a recording made today. Why wouldn't I listen to the one with the better singers/artists?
VinylToVideo 6 months ago
@VinylToVideo I refuse to think only the past has produced great singers. There is no logical explanation for it. If you refuse to listen to the great singers of today, feel free to do so, of course. I just feel this 'behavior' cannot be explained by a lack of talent these days, that's all. But everyone should listen to what he or she likes, of course.
visse264 6 months ago
@visse264 I don't "refuse to listen to the.. ..singers of today;" if that were the case I never would have ended up here. The point's already been made that when I do listen to them, I am disappointed time and time again. I also do not care who you like or listen to but if you care to hear what is in my opinion a memorable performance of this duet, go to my page and it will play. That performance speaks for itself. I'm not wasting more time with this endless line of commenting. Have a nice life.
VinylToVideo 6 months ago
@VinylToVideo You could have stopped this line of commenting a lot earlier, by just admitting that saying Opera is dead is, in fact, nonsense. Even if you prefer previous singers. Have a nice return to former times.
visse264 6 months ago
@visse264 You're a fucking idiot. Again, LISTENING TO A RECORDING MADE 50 YEARS AGO IS NO DIFFERENT THAN LISTENING TO ONE MADE TODAY. I never have nor will I ever attend an opera so recordings are all I have; why not listen to the absolute best singers possible? Today looks, acting, and sets come before voices. I would never admit to something that is false. Get a life and shut the fuck up already.
VinylToVideo 6 months ago
@VinylToVideo Look who's talking. It really adds to your credibility.
visse264 6 months ago
@visse264 You obviously want to get the last word but it isn't going to happen if you want to call my opinion nonsense. Stop sitting on your ears and listen to some real singers or drop dead.
VinylToVideo 6 months ago
@VinylToVideo Ok honestly, I generally don't like to interfere. But telling other people to "drop dead" and "shut the fuck up" is really pushing it. Please stop.
operalover9001 6 months ago
@operalover9001 Actually it was over but thanks to your interfering is now continuing. Great going!
VinylToVideo 6 months ago
Also, I commend the recording engineers for not hindering us with overblown voices and phony sound, typical of many operatic studio recordings of the last several decades. This is how a studio recording should sound.
VinylToVideo 6 months ago
Quite disappointing though I wasn't expecting much to begin with.
VinylToVideo 6 months ago
@VinylToVideo That doesn't really sound very logical to me. It's okay to be disappointed with it, of course. I don't really agree, but that's fine. But it is somewhat strange, to me, to not expect anything of these two talented singers. Talent and opera is dead? It is hard for me to believe you're serious about this. But I assume you are. Again, it is not really logical to think that only the past would have produced talents. Aren't you a bit nostalgic?
visse264 6 months ago
@visse264 Nostalgic? No, I just like singers that actually had great voices and solid techniques who weren't hired because they are attractive and can carry an aria. Kaufmann's voice has little resonance or squillo, is not Italianate, and his diction is unclear. Never heard of Westbroek before this but she is of similar skill and accomplishment I'm sure. This is subtle, passionless, and an overall forgettable performance though not necessarily a boring one.
VinylToVideo 6 months ago
Diese Beiden sind das Beste, was ich in den letzten jahren gehört habe. Natürlich gab es früher bessere, aber diese beiden können wir noch anfassen und fühlen und sie geben einfach alles... dafür lieben wir sie... Und nun kommen Sie mir nicht wieder mit der Callas und Corelli, das ist ein alter Hut!"!!
sisifus100 8 months ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
"To imply that only Italians can sing this well is more than stupid -it speaks ignorance ..."
These is ANOTHER EXAMPLE of hidden racism against mediterranean people!
We Latins have a singing tradition - THE singing tradition - that is the most exquisite, specific and inimitable.
You F*c#ck Nordics love to think that you know and can do anything better than anyone...These 2 are at their limits, vocally and stylistically - their italian is garbled and their singing technique is good for....what?
albekling 8 months ago
@albekling I'm sorry, who's being racist?
operalover9001 8 months ago 4
@albekling Hidden racism??? Than I suppose it is that well hidden that it is impossible for me to discover it... "To imply that Nordics love to think that they know and can do anything better than anyone is... etc. etc."
visse264 8 months ago
@albekling: Que stúpido comentario..
sisifus100 8 months ago
POR FAVOR; ESCUCHEN LA INTERPRETACIO DE MARIO DEL MONACO Y MARIA CALLAS EN LA REPRESENTACION EN LA SCALA EL AÑO 1955 o en su lugar la de FRANCO CORELLI Y RENATA TEBALDI EN VIENA, CON KARAJAN DIRIGIENDO, ESO SI " ANDREA CHENIER"
Babywinona 8 months ago
@Babywinona : Callas and Corelli are dead. This two are alive and therefore we love them.
No more words...
sisifus100 8 months ago
@sisifus100 Yes, but there "recordings" have stood the test of time! How many disappear without a trace. The greatest survive, even when they are dead.
I love these two as well though!
robertdonkers 7 months ago
@sisifus100 And as we lose the last few singers of the second golden age also dead is something we'll never get back: talent on the operatic stage. Sure these two are alive but unfortunately opera is dead.
VinylToVideo 6 months ago
Thank you for posting. This is so great music. Jonas Kaufmann and Eva-Maria Westbroek Bravíssimo!!!!!!!!!!!!
sisifus100 10 months ago
To imply that only Italians can sing this well is more than stupid -it speaks ignorance - the duet carries itself and as long as the singers have the range it works- both here are road tour calibre a
lot of yelling but little music and that dreadful strangulated sound from Kaufmann ...and 2nd. rate conducting .......leave much to be desired.
dziady1 10 months ago 2
This is thrilling and that two non Italians can generate all the passion that is necessary to pull off this duet. is extraordinary.
davy91101 10 months ago
Helemaal te gek die twee!!
Marian van Schaaik
Amhabetsvanschaaik 11 months ago
These two gave me goosebumps. Worthy inheritors of these roles.
jglass54 11 months ago
Bravissimi!!!!! due voci incredibili!!!!!!!!!!!!
matt7178 11 months ago
Por cierto, excelente Sieglinde la Westbroek...
AlberichNibelungo 1 year ago
Estupenda interpretación. Dos voces magníficamente conjuntadas y capaces de imponerse a la gran orquestación de Giordano. La pronunciación de ambos cantantes, pese a su procedencia germana, es magnífica. Además, cantan con mucha intención y gusto, respetando las dinámicas y mostrándose dulces y elegíacos donde hace falta, y heroicos donde se necesita. Así pues, interpretación muy canónica y destacable. Habría que oírlos en directo, pero parece evidente que no siempre lo pasado es lo mejor.
AlberichNibelungo 1 year ago
nice recording... i'd like to see him do it in house though.
ShawDAMAN 1 year ago
excited to see these two in Die Walkure!!
me148 1 year ago 3
Absolutely exciting!!!
voce29 1 year ago
Giving this 2 thumbs up. Thank you so much for posting it.
thanksyounow 1 year ago
Incredible!
KissaMyEyes 1 year ago 2
Son nouvel album "Verismo" est un véritable plaisir!
77Opera 1 year ago