and one more thing if im gonna be a robot its gonna be for "Jesus" so in that sense yes im a robot for Jesus!! i heart Jesus,, I heart God!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
and one more thing no offense to those who use fertility just making a point ..and to the poster: do something crazy this week since God is a so called spirit talk directly at it say something write something ,be your self be natural and see what happens let me know the results , i do it all the time and i get answers people come up to me and tell me answers usaully in threes thats just one example of how i get my answers if your curious to know more just ask or just try it your self nd be nice.
@tillnow67 its like your a robot, no offense do you feel kinda robotic? ,, i mean where do you think your spirit goes when you leave your body or your relatives or anyones for that matter?....may be going a little left field with this but we are given to our parents as a gift and we are not from plants or ibv only get what im saying?
@bpruby110 No, I don't get what you're saying at all. "we are not from plants or ibv only"??? Is that supposed to make sense? And who is more robotic, someone who thinks for themselves or someone who follows the religious programming they have received since childhood? I am so glad you are posting here because YOU are the perfect representative for the religious viewpoint....
@tillnow67 it was an example ,, but your to smart to know that ,,, this conversation is done i thought you were more intelligent ,, guess as the saying goes to smart for your own good , or another example book smart but not street smart,,, gooooooooooooodbye! thanks for the little chat anyways im going to take my religous freak self thoughts out here now peace!
You sir are quite the philosopher. If these thoughts are your own, I tip my hat to you. I've never heard an argument quite like this anywhere, although I have discussed a similar concept myself.
I haven't read all the responses here so I may be repeating what has been said before, sorry if that's the case.
It is incumbent upon the person who asserts the existence of something to demonstrate its existence. The burden of proof is not upon those who say, "it ain't so". I need some evidence to refute; apart from several thousand pages of arguable origin, there's nothing I see that shows me "God".
The diatribe to which I attach this missive is mostly blather.
Topics: DEADLY ARGUMENTS NOW ADDED For The Creationism-Evolutionism Debate (See Subchapter 10.2.2.), The Issue On The Criminal Liability Of Foretelling The END OF THE WORLD, Other Debated Issues, Terrorism, War, Law, Politics, Religion, Philosophy, Science, Others.
Websites: balanceddiet1.yolasite.com
See Figure 4, which is THE MEANING OF THE PYRAMID, at figure4etc.yolasite.com
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The claim that an entity exists that is all-knowing and all-powerful is impossible. All-knowing is completely (pre-)deterministic and therefore cannot be all powerful. If a being is all-powerful, it can change its mind, and therefore is not all-knowing. The very notion of human free-will, which the religious apologists like to trot out as a supposed answer to the problem of suffering, radically undermines the concept of god, as it would be neither all-knowing nor all-powerful.
Well done Tillnow67, easy argument, but cool examples.
Theist response to this - but its god!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! he/she/it can do anything!!!!!! have FAITH!!! I like how 'God" gave us these big brains but we cant use em because we dont have a choice, i guess going to hell is a choice, like blowing ya brains out......no choice, no freedom. stupid.
And with the probability of this perfect earth in its perfect place in the solar system in the perfect galaxy in the perfect spot in the universe all containing just the right ingredients to automatically or accidentally create life! That probability is just a little to high for my blood (though i don't discount the possibility of life on other planets). The main kicker to me is, if scientist know the chemical make up of a living being, why can't they compile it & make it live? Think about it.
@shezie125 Have you been to nunavut? There is nothing perfect there. just death in the form of freezing cold and hunger. We are not designed to live on our own planet.....er our planet is not designed with us in mind. The earth itself kills millions of people every century. Don't you think that if a god cared about us he would have built a safer house for his children.
Reason being, if something is so magnanimous that it can create a universe and all thats in it (just saying) and us as humans can barely use 10% of our brain power, do you really think we can fully grasp it. When describing god, atheist and many theist ascribe many humanistic traits to him, so we actually have a bias that says in us well that not possible because it isn't possible for us! God's existence is the default to the ppl who disagree with accidental creation.
I like your take, prior to matter, but question do you believe then that matter began with the big bang, or already existed heating up to create the bang. And by extension, where did the initial matter come from and where/what is the universe expanding into? And in my perspective of god, he exist outside the realm of our capabilities and full understanding.
What a completely fascinating & refreshing concept! Just when I thought I'd heard / seen every great atheist argument, then I stumble on your wonderful video. Thank you for sharing your knowledge. I'll be sure to put this in my "arsenal of logic" next time the Mormon's come knocking! I like making 'em work for their belief!
I admire your disposition vs other atheists on here. I don't believe I can make anyone believe in God. I view it as a revalation. However, since science is just theories based on observations, I've never observed anything develop POOF! out of nothing. So my only nontheological argument is that it make more sense that everything developed from something that I nor science can explain to you, then it came from POOF! nothing. Just a thought.
@fossfass before the big bang there was nothing. Our universe is thought (notice it's all theory) to have come from an infinately dense "something" that is termed a singularity. space didn't even exist until the expansion of this singularity. Science can't even explain where singularities come from. In order for these singularities to have been produced, i don't see any evidence in science that can argue that believing in the big bang you have to believe that it all started poof from nothing
Actually, no one claims to know what were before the big bang...
The main problem is that the physical models that are used today can't handle the singularity... It's sad, but true.
And while we don't know what happened at the moment of the birth of our universe, we do know that all evidence point towards that the big bang happened. (Background radiation, the movements of galaxies etc.)
And no, we can't, as of now, explain where the singularity came from.
@fossfass The best the bigbang can hope for is that in theory a singularity exsisted n existing black hole and started expanding to create our universe Big bang theory actually keeps changing as it gets disproved like manmade global warmng Comp models can't handle it cause it's bogus Bckground rad exist but is theory about theory Yes it matters bcause people let pagan scientist create theory to make them think they are smarter than they are and like the serpent leads them away from their creator
@BalthazzarCH yea, i think it's hilarious too and a bunch of mumbo jumbo. I mean I was helping out the big bang theory with giving them the best they could hope for. "they" don't REALLY know what a singularity is or where they come from so I was giving them a best bet They're thought to exist in blck holes but you can't see in black holes go figure hey dude was right about physical models can't handle it wow imagine that. nice way of saying we can't even make a computer spit out what they want
@FreaksFromAbraham omg dude, your comments are an awfull mess of words, spiced up with typos... here get some puctuations: [...,,,!!!] use them at free will!
it's really hard to guess what your point is.
black holes: google "evidence for black holes" before you make such a stupid argument... yeah you can't see them but you can't see air eighter... don't you think there are other ways to proof such things? hints: Volume/pressure, gravity (one is for air, the other for black holes)
@FreaksFromAbraham the scientific definition of a theory is "the best explaination for an observed process" one of the rules of such an explaination that it has to be observable and reconcludable by an undependand peer. example: we know from the doppler effect that the universe is expandig. we can calculate the positions of other objects in the universe with geometry so we know that all objects are moving away from one point. every mathematician with knowledge of physics agrees. voilà: big bang
@fossfass //"But the fun thing about the big bang is that everything is moving away from everything else 8D"//
imagine yourself the position of a particle that has just been part of an explosion. There are other particles around you, movin away from the explosion. Those in front of you are faster than you, those behind you, slower. those with the same speed of yours are "somehow" next to you but moving in an other agle away from the expolosion... everything is moving away from you ;-)
@BalthazzarCH propaganda is also another name for information but ask people the definition and see what you get. you got to come with some knowledge more than a google search Me, i just like to debate In reality you can't prove the bb anymore than you can prove God all it is is what you chose to believe They'res more physical evidence for bigfoot Me I believe God created everything BB folks believe in the sinularity but you can't PROVE either Anyone want to debate the eve gene or cargon14 i do
@FreaksFromAbraham i can show you the evidence that points to a BB in a 500 char box and you are able to check this information... ok you'll need a good telescope and a spectral analyser but thats about it. can you give me any evidence for your skydaddy that doesn't rely on circular argumenting about the truth of the bible? oh.. and don't provide anything that has already been disprooven by potholer54, thunderf00t or AronRa ... cheers!
@BalthazzarCH I can give you evidence that the world and man was not created in the manner that the big bang thinkerdoodles say it was-exactley...carbon 14 and eve gene. in order to except that there was no hand of God involved in the creation of the universe, and to except that after the big bang life just evolved, then you have to believe the rest of the "mumbo jumbo" like we are descendents of apes which the eve gene disproves and the world is mil of yrs old which carbon 14 disproves.
@FreaksFromAbraham you're a complete fool on a biblical level. Carbon 14 renews itself constantly within our atmosphere. the theory (or theorum) of evolution does not explain how life began, only the diversity of life on the planet. Do not try and quote books 150 years old, scientific theories change over time (like organisms) with the input of new information/experience. Instead read about Abiogenisis. Geology and Cosmology would be interesting reads to. You obivously only read Kent Hovind.
@epshot Dude, I wish I remembered what this was all about so I could respond to whatever it is you're getting at but evolution and the big bang fit hand in hand together so..I don't know did I say evolution explains the way life begins??? carbon 14...it's used in radiometric dating...I don't know that we even got into that in this post did we??? Abiogenisi doesn't prove man crawled out of the sea at some point...and just read Hovind on wiki...too bad we don't live in a free country anymore huh?
@FreaksFromAbraham Abiogenisis does not try and prove that we crawled from the sea to begin with, only that life was derived from non-life. evolution and cosmology go hand in hand basically because the science of evolutionary biology goes hand in hand, or overlaps well with all other areas of (real) science. carbon 14 is indeed a radio-dating method but it is used in connection with certain time scales. definately not on a geological time-scale. more like... archeological timescales.
@FreaksFromAbraham ps. if you're to lazy to do a little google search before you make up argument, you're actually just saiing that you're a denialist. Well that knowledge is a sin is a docrine of your funny cult anyway... congrats you're a good christian.
@BalthazzarCH I deny that the exact combination of events depicted by the idea that follows the scientific idea that take you from the expantion of the singularity to the present day including the evolution of man and time it took to be formed. My main concern is that the bb idea in totality makes some men believe that in some way it disproves God or that God form the universe and earth. That's my arguement, it doesn't disprove God but 4 some reason people thinks it does.
@FreaksFromAbraham i've never met an atheist who claims that the bb theory disproves god in any way. however i often see atheists response with bb theory when they get the good old "but where does everything come from?" question. But "i don't know " would be a valid question two 'cause if BB-theory would turn out to be impossible. That doesn't mean that any supernatural explanation must have it right.
however i've seen a lot of theists who think evolution or BB turns ppl into atheists. dk why.
@FreaksFromAbraham it's a very old strawmens argument that the big bang cam from nothing. If you reject the hypothesis about singularity that is fine. But it's more possible than anything described in any ancient holybook ever. and even if the bb-theory is wrong, my life doesn't change a bit. Only thing we know for sure is that all matter must have come from one point. so if someone asks me "where does everyting come from" i give him the most reasonable explaination i know. and no magic skydady
@BalthazzarCH Actually, magic is against Skydaddies rules. Magic (and the occult)originated from the nimrod line. And if someone asks you where everything comes from you can say the big bang theory made it...Now what do you say when someone asks where did the big bang come from..a singularity...where does that come from..well we're not sure..never seen one, we just think they exist in black holes...just recognize that God made the Big Bang and you'll be on the right path..
@FreaksFromAbraham why should i stop repeating the "where does it come from" question when your answer is god? i assume you're talking about the christian god. But what if that god is just a myth and some other "godlike" diety is the cause? What we're talking about here is the main difference between science and theology. one is triing to find explaination for the yet unexplained. The other one wants to find support for its' presumed claims. if we knew everything science would stop ;-)
Lol I just wanna make 1 point it's that theist belive that we cud not understand Anything bout god so eny question u might have is answered by "we cud not understand" -I'm not taking eny sides although I think ppl that do take either side are ideots
What I would like to know is: What do theists think their God is made of? What substance, or type of [matter] so to speak is their God comprised of? What does this God use in order to bring objects and matter into existence? By what process? How do this God's thoughts work? Does God have a brain? If not, then how does God think and process information? Can a theist quantify their God? Can they tell us how much "God" there is in the universe? Or how little? Is God present physically?
You actually really look like a man from a stone age who cannot accept the fact that bacteries nad microbs exist simply because he doesn't see them. You are just a subset of a much bigger set, adn your logic which is given to you by a superior Mind is aplicable in your own dimension but God is beyond of your dimension. Stick it, lay man.
You seem to be very intelligent but you lack imagination and knowledge. You compare God with yourself and everything you sense in this world but God is not like anything you know. Your argument is like an argument of a blind man who cannot believe that a chair doesn't breath, eat, or speak because he thinks that everything around him is like him. God is not trapped but you are because you bind everything to material, which He created. Don't compare God to urself. Learn Islam, you'll find answer.
@JackSparrowDepp Thought requires a thinker and a subject. It wouldn't matter how great the thinker was if there was NO subject. You can't get around that simple fact. It doesn't matter how "like" or "unlike your proposed god is. No subject = no thought. Oh, and Muhammad was a child molester.
Your thinking ability is given to you by God. It means there are things beyond of your capacity which you don't know. You know as much as you are allowed to. You are a subset of a bigger set. You may as well say that God should have the beginning, eat, breath etc. like you do. If you could be able to comprehend all God's attributes then He would cease to be your creator. He is your creator because you cannot comprehend him to the full extent and that is also the other way around.
@JackSparrowDepp Himself in what terms? He is holy? What does that mean if no sin CAN be committed? He is mighty? Compared to who or what? He is Loving? Who can a god love if nobody else exists? No silly man, god could not be the subject because one can only think of himself in terms of things that are not himself.
And yes, Muhammed was a child molester. How old was his "wife" when he married? Pervert.
Man, you reall need serious education. First of all, I repeat in once more: you are allowed to comprehend only what you are given to comprehend. You live in one dimension and you cannot know what exists in other dimensions simply because you have no knowledge of those dimensions. You look like a primitive man from a stone age who cannot accept that microbs exist because he has never seen them. All your knowledge is based on the things which exist in dimension you have been living in
@JackSparrowDepp LOL, you think we live in a one dimensional universe? You are funny. You didn't answer my questions funny man. Describe yourself without referring to anyone or anything else. Can you do that? No. That is why god could not even think about himself if nothing else existed. How old was that pervert Muhammad's "wife" when he married her? Scared to even answer that one?
Idiot, when I say dimension I am not talking about dimensions which you have when you draw something. Besides, GOD had concepts and ideas about the universe he created, hence about you too, so He could compare Himself to you. As for Muhammed's marriage with Aisha watch this video on youtube and be enlightened lay man: Prophet Muhammad's (s) Marriage to Aisha (ra) - Yusuf Estes
@JackSparrowDepp Your argument is circular then you blind fool. You say the universe and everything in it exists because of a thinking god, but that his thought was dependent on the future existence of the universe and everything in it. Classic circular reasoning.
Aisha was six years old when he took her and no more than ten when he consummated the marriage. MUHAMMED WAS A CHILD MOLESTING PERVERT!!!!
Idiot, the video I sent to you is more than 12 minutes, have you watched all of it before calling Muhammed what you do call?
Besides, you failed to respond to my argument that you are not given to comprehend everything, You actually sound like a Master Mind in the universe who can think and comprehend everything and there is nothing beyond your thinking. As I already told you, you know only what you are shown in your own dimensional world.
@JackSparrowDepp Your argument rests entirely on the unproved assertion that there IS a god who allows me to see only what I am given to see. But you have failed to show that is the case. In fact, you can't even describe how that COULD be the case. Your argument is circular and childish. "Everything exists because of an intelligent being whose intelligence depends on everything existing". THAT is your foolish, circular argument. You blindly follow that foolish child molester.
I never said God's intelligence depends on every thing existing. He is absolute because he is absolute. You can as well ask a question: "If God created us then who created Him?" You will find a reason for everything until you reach God. He has no reason of his existence as there is nothing beyon Him. He exist because He exists. And you won't be able to comprehend his thinking and other abilities because He is beyond you, He doesn't allow you to do that.
@JackSparrowDepp You said "Besides, GOD had concepts and ideas about the universe he created, hence about you too, so He could compare Himself to you". If god had to rely on a universe he had not yet created for subjects of thought, then his thought was dependent on that yet to be created universe. Can you think of another way to describe yourself without referring to anyone or anything else? Can you circular boy?
Besides, if you want a proof that God exists by sensing Him with your senses then don't waste your time as it won't happen. As I said you need education to understand that. Everyone would believe in God if He were showing up every morning in the sky. But that's the whole issue, your life is your test on belief. God never shows Himself but he gives us hidden but apparent evidences on his existence. To believe or not - your choice.
@JackSparrowDepp At least you admit that there is NO evidence for god. Maybe you should get a dictionary and look up up "hidden" and "apparent" though. LOL
@JackSparrowDepp Allah was not banging a 10 year old. Muhammed, your prophet, married a girl (Aliya?) At age 7, and began have sexual relations with her when she was 9. This information is derived from your holy book, the Quran. Have you read it?
You seem to be very intelligent but you lack imagination and knowledge. You compare God with yourself and everything you sense in this world but God is not like anything you know. Your argument is like an argument of a blind man who cannot believe that a chair doesn't breath, eat, or speak because he thinks that everything around him is like him. God is not trapped but you are because you bind everything to
I like this vid, nice rationale. You should look up Spinoza's God, if you haven't already, the same which Einstein and a large portion of the physics community believe in. It's a good approach because it doesn't question God's role in the universe' existence, nor does it hail him for his intelligence.
I am an atheist and I agree with your views, but you still haven't disproven god. You can make interesting arguments and present ideas to support them, but the fact is, as all scientist know, you can't disprove the existence or prove the existence of anything supernatural. This goes for fairies, leprechauns, unicorns, god or whatever. Sure they seem childish to believe in and you can demonstrate that it is statistically unlikely that they exist, however; you cannot prove it definitively.
I am a muslim and I agree with you that existence of God like 2+2=4 cannot be proved. Because otherwise our life would cease to be a test. However God gives evidence of his existence in many hidden yet apparent ways. Scientific miracles of Qur'an is one example!
to simply put it.... natural men can not understand the things of God, because it appears to be foolish to him. Nor can he discern them because those things are discerned spiritually.
this guy is simply on the wrong channel
however, i would love to see this guy brainstorm the apocolypse
One flaw here is that if God created the human mind and sensory thought process, then He would not maintain the same process. The human and its creation, the computer cpu, do not think the same. We are not created in God's image, so his "brain" is not a human brain, and thus your logical point takes a hit. Do you know how a proposed God would process?
@abudis2cool That is interesting. In the end however, the CPU and the brain are both matter-based. There is no other known way of receiving and manipulating information (what we can call intelligence) other than a system that is matter based. A theist must therefore posit this god's processing system to be immaterial if he is to get around the issue. Just my thoughts. Let me know what you think.
@mustafaupk It doesn't matter whether it's matter based or spiritual or how superior to human brains it is. If nothing exists, thought is impossible. At a minimum thought requires thinker and subject. Creationists say the universe depends on an intelligent being, then they say this being knew everything (though nothing existed) because he saw the future. They're saying the existence of the universe depends on gods intelligence and gods intelligence depended on future existence of the universe.
@abudis2cool You are missing the point. It doesn't matter at all how a proposed god COULD process something if there was nothing TO process, like the strongest weightlifter conceivable couldn't lift anything if he was all that existed because there would be nothing to lift. Thought requires a thinker and a subject. It wouldn't matter how great the thinker was if there was NO subject.
@tillnow67 The fissure of this debate is whether God is a cognitive being. If God exist, and exist as an all knowing figure, then what does he need to think about? That is the question. Thank you for replying.
LOL, abudis2cool is actually right but you fail to grasp his (and also mine) point. You say that thought requires a subject but that very thought which is "thought requires a subject" is a thought inside your brain. Does a cat agree with you on that? Or a tree? Or some insane man? Or a 2-month baby? I bring this examples up for you to understand that everything you think logical is attributed to you yourself and not every "brain" processes in the same way. GOD is not a human being.
People ae starting to think for themselves. With the advent of the internet and free speech ....we are coming to terms that religion is contradictiory and is false.
So is he saying matter existed before God? is matter therefore your God? what's da matter no answer? sorry I couldn't help myself, I don't know when matter got here or even what it is, a bunch of atoms of something, but I do believe in one God who is in absolute control of all matter, you say how do you know that" prove it , I can't I just believe it by faith , I can no more change an atheist's mind, than he can change mine. We all live with our beliefs and our choices, peace to all.
words are words man you can never disprove god if so prove to me of how the world was created how plants were made you cant a bunch of scientists can get together and come up with a theory but its not enough WHY DO PEOPLE EVEN ARGUE AGAINST THE EXISTENCE OF GOD WHAT JESUS WANTED IS PEACE LOVE AND CARE ISNT THAT WHAT PEOPLE WANT IF NOT THEN YOU ARE MENTALLY ILL DUDE
There is a difference between a belief and a fact. You can believe god is real, but it's not based on any real, credible, factual evidence. You can say god made beautiful mountains, oceans and animals, but you don't say much about him creating bone cancer in children? He just works in mysterious ways huh? Yeah, that seems legit.
Great job man. I watch ALOT of videos on religion and the people that are religious never make any good pionts or show any sign of critical thinking whatsoever. People that can think like you make the world better, by sifting through religious idiotcy.
@TheManurules How do you know? You have no proof hell exists. And even if it did and you went to heaven and he went to hell. Wouldn't god look down upon laughing at people burning?
Intelligent, but not infinitely so. And yes, of course matter is intelligent. Look at people. Sure, only some give off the aura of intelligence, but it's there.
Wayne I liked this video when I 1st saw it and found new appreciation for it after being exposed to Atlas Shrugged which does a good job of highlighting Aristotelian logic.
It makes a good rebuttal anytime a theist brings up the infinite regression argument.
somthin ive always noticed is that wen these things come up, athiests have nothing but pure logic to say. wat do those who r religious have to say? bible bible bible, pray pray pray, belief belief belief. they give NOTHING to truly support their argument.
5 star vid i gave it that many anyway i have seen your vids before and think thay are good to gave them 5 stars i am an atheist to and i live in the bible belt that is the buy bull belt sry i must take that line from the king he talked about you on his vids so i came over more about me i live in s.c have been an atheist for 3 or 4 months told my parents and dad not sure what he thinks as for mom she said i do not have a soul soooo ya she still does not accept it i thank you for your service
Third - Your squared Circle example is good, but misses the point all together. The question was, a theist to an atheist, disprove God. Both parties have to begin with the understanding that God is the topic. One God/Intelligent Designer, not two different gods. Yes there are not squared circles, but there are squares and circles that are by def. different. You were not asked to disprove two objects that can't exist together by def. you were asked to disprove God which by def. is one thing
The Robert said "you were asked to disprove God which by def. is one thing"
What definition are you using Robert? What "one" thing is god? Does he only possess "one" characteristic? Which one? Is he eternal or creative or omniscient? Those characteristics can't exist in the same entity the same way characteristics like 90 degree angles and continuous arcs can't exist in the same two dimensional shape. You missed the point entirely Bob.
God is God. You are trying to make distinctions about characteristics of God and not just focusing on God. Those characteristics can exist within the same entity. Because something is eternal does not mean that it can not create, and to be able to create does not limit omniscience, and omniscience does not rule out eternity. Just because you do not like the fact that those can exist together does not mean it is impossible.
No, Bob. You are in denial. To "create" something, to take credit for an ideas conception, there had to have been a time when that idea did not already exist and was unknown to anyone. At what point would an eternal and omniscient god have not known everything? And where is there room for creativity in the materialization process if he knew in exactly every detail how it would be? If he strayed from that prior knowledge, then his prior knowledge was WRONG! He would have no choice in it.
No, there is no denial here. You are again presupposing that I believe in God and am not just pointing out your flawed logic.
To create is defined as to bring into existence something new. Since there was nothing previously "created", anything that God brought into existence would be "new", and thus created. You are adding to the definition of create in order to try to make a point. Who's in denial?
You are failing to grasp the distinction between physically manifesting something which already existed conceptually and creating the concept itself. Yes, anything god physically manifested would be physically new, but NOTHING could be a new concept. EVERYTHING would have always existed conceptually.
Again, not failing to grasp the concept. You are again changing the definition of "create" to fit your purpose. The actual definition of create is listed in my last reply. Building off the universally accepted definition of create, anything new brought into existence has therefore been created. Using your made to order definition, you are trying to split the concept of an idea from the actual physical creation process. That is fine to discuss, but are two different things.
OK fine Bob. Please tell me how one can physically manifest something without first conceiving it? Yes, I am separating them and making a distinction to make a point. But the point is valid because you can't have the second without the first. Why is that so fucking hard for you to grasp?
Separating the two parts, yes, we agree that if God knew all, the concept would therefore exist. But since the concept had not been present prior to God, therefore all concepts are NEW.
the second part of your definition, the physical manifestation of a concept to reality, seems to be one that we agree on. All physical creation God might have done would have been new. Thus created. So, if we agree on this part, that means that part of your original statement is false. part false = false
"But since the concept had not been present prior to God, therefore all concepts are NEW. "
IF GOD IS ETERNAL, THERE WAS NO "PRIOR" TO GOD! EVERYTHING WOULD HAVE ALWAYS EXISTED CONCEPTUALLY. Seriously, are you fucking with me or are you really not getting it? How can you call god eternal and then talk about something "prior to God"? I hope you are joking.
Do you actually read my posts or just begin spouting off? Let me try slowing down for you...BECAUSE God is eternal, all concepts originated with GOD. THEREFORE all concepts are NEW. Then the NEW concept was brought into existence - thus CREATED! Now, seeing that those NEW concepts which God devised were brought into physical existence, by definition CREATED (see above), something eternal can CREATE!
"all concepts originated with God" When exactly was God "originated"? Oh yeah, eternal and omniscient, so no "origin" for him and no "origin" for his knowledge. So NO concept could be "new" in this scenario. Please elaborate, at what POINT did God "devise" them if at any point for eternity past they already existed? Dumbass. This is getting tiring explaining the same thing over and over again and watching you struggle with it.
Wow. Great logic. never said God originated, but in order to try to deflect the facts, bring it up. No concept could be new? really? at which point did those concepts become known by anyone besides God? using your flawed logic again, there is nothing new "under the sun" then, and thus nothing is created (by definition). even your examples of how to disprove God were known in advance, and thus eternally plagiarized, leaving you devoid and lacking. but God already knew that.
Yes. No concept could be new ...TO GOD. Really. I think you are PRETENDING to not get it rather than consider giving up your imaginary friend. Pathetic.
@tillnow67 I liked your video and find it to be pretty original, at least to me but then I'm not a trained philosopher. . But one issue, if I were making the same points and I probably will, I'm bad about stealing the ideas of others:-).
If I'd made this video I'd avoid the language part of the argument. I can imagine playing a chess game, for instance, and seldom would the names of the pieces come into to my thoughts even they're the heart of the game. Thoughts are more abstract in my head.
And for future thought - the argument of the circular square you brought up in the video...when you take old atheistic arguments (Deems argument of a circular triangle from almost 20 years ago) and try to make them your own by changing one shape, you really should note your source, because as seen in your fans posts, they think that was your creative concept.
Never heard of Deems, but it's interesting you bring it up. Are you saying that if I had prior knowledge of it then I couldn't take credit for creating the concept? You fucking dolt, THAT'S the idea you've been arguing against here!
You're right...this is getting tiring. You steal someone's idea, take credit for yourself and when called on it, make a feeble attempt at some sort of humor or idiocy. You be the judge.
This has nothing to do with PRIOR knowledge. did you know the concept in advance of God? NO. No one did, thus NEW. Nothing in the definition of create says the concept has to be NEW, only that you bring something NEW into existence.
Second - you say that a God who knows all in advance has no creativity Michelangelo said "I saw the angel in the marble and carved until I set him free." So, using your logic, Michelangelo's sculpture would incur no creativity, and would be nonsensical. i disagree. Knowing how something will turn out does not limit creativity in the process of fulfillment.
I'm saying there is a difference between carving an angel out of stone and inventing the idea of angels. Michelangelo already knew what an angel was and how it should look. He didn't create the concept. You failed to grasp the distinction.
No, I do grasp what you said and am pointing out the flaw. You said that a God who knows all in advance thus has no creativity. I said that you can know the concept in advance and yet have creativity in the process of creation. God can know all and still create creatively.
So, if you can't fathom something outside of your mind, then it is nonsensical. That is a cop-out answer to disproving God. Your rationale is extremely flawed and limited. First - Why does "God" have to have a mind that thinks in terms of matter? Since that is where you begin, you assume that's where God would begin. That is an assumption based on God being the same as man.
Yes. That is what nonsensical means Bob, It doesn't make sense.
God HAS to have a mind that thinks in terms of matter because if God created everything then what else could exist but god and matter? Everything god thinks of would be based on matter except himself which would require matter for context if only god and matter exist.
You can refute this by giving examples of things god could think of which don't require matter.
So if everything else is based on matter except God and God knows all in advance, you presuppose that God must have working knowledge of matter in order to create? Again, I would disagree - with pre-creation knowledge of all - why couldn't a god that knows all, create matter? Just because you can't fathom, it must not be possible?
Still not thought of any examples Bob? Not one? Come on, give me one example of something god could have thought of if he was the only thing that existed. Just one. If not, explain how creation can occur without thought.......
how can you explain any creative idea for which we had not had any previous knowledge? electricity? Fire? Milk? All of these are nonsensical using your description - clicking two rocks together to attain heat, harnessing energy in a filament, and sucking on the teet of a bovine. And no, there was not working knowledge or a current understanding of those prior to first creation. There were ideas that led to an assumption, but not more.
excellent!! Such logic in your explaination.i agree fully with what u said..FULLY! i hate is when relegious ppl say that he knows everything as well..well done
[6.57] Say: Surely I have manifest proof from my Lord and you call it a lie; I have not with me that which you would hasten; the t judgment is only Allah's; He relates the truth and He is the best of deciders.
Common you have to think. Big bang? everything comes to gether and then BOEM a perfect universe? why did it all get together? Why now? Why not 10000milion years ago? Why not yesterday? How did it came to gether? Uhm.. DR Brown: 'Before I became muslim I felt like everything I did was marking time. It wasnt dedicated on a purpse. After I became muslim I felt like I had a purpse I understud it purpse ' He's an eye-specialist. He says: All the things in the eye must have come at once.
No I don't hate it when you scream ALLAH'O AKBAR instead of putting together an intellectual response. It only proves that you are an intellectually challenged fool with an imaginary friend. If my arguments are weak and you "break them", then by all means make a response video articulating your points and I will post it. Otherwise, proceed with the caricature that you are.
Thank you, for even if you were wrong id rather listen to someone explain the reasoning rather than say, you cant prove he doesnt exist. ofcourse a theist will say that atheism like what you are saying is developed to be creative and persuasive to go against religion, when as we both know; We are simply using our brains
The idea of an intelligent designer is an anthropomorphism, mostly Yaweh, a projection of what could be a desert tribe old tyrant, controling, jealous, hateful, mysoginist, and so full of fail.
We have to define God before we can argue/ talk about whether or not God existed before matter. If we define God as infinite and define infinite as something that doesn't depend on time, space and matter, then, yes God existed before matter. We can think of infinity as a form that can have physical representation but it doesn't have to. The closest example of that would be thinking itself. If we think of a walking tree, it exists in our minds but it doesn't have a physical reality.
I'm agnostic and believe pretty much what that Viktir666 dude is on about but your whole arguement pivots on proving that God (if he/she/it exists) must think like we do, and there is no reason to believe that whatsoever.
I suppose the most obvious answer of where you are wrong is "that doesn't apply to god" - like the idea that everything has a creator, except god. Nothing can exist without matter, except god.
The contradictions never seem to worry the faithful. The idea that god knows everything is incompatible with free will - yet we're supposed to be judged on our actions. None of it makes any sense.
Your argument as to no God is based on the premise of no matter. That God created everything out of thin air. Pretty much the same as the big bang. Something from nothing. Why does this have to be the case. The alpha the omega the beginning the end. This applies to our reality. Who is to say our reality is not made from another.
I like the Men in Black example of the galaxy the size of a marble.
dmccurdy - it is the Christian bible that says in the beginning the earth was void and without form. i.e "nothing"
The big bang say no such thing. The big bang explains the expansion of the universe and does not propose that all of creation came into being from "nothing". That is the claim of the bible.
First off, I am not religious so I'm not defending any god. I have a statement/question that I would like you to think about. I agree with 99% of what you have said and it makes logical sense. I'm glad you are a logical thinker, but...
... What if there is a god but even though we perceive things with our FIVE senses, maybe a god has 155 senses? Just because we have 5 senses, doesn't mean a god would be limited to those 5.
What ideas or comments do you have about this statement?
How do you KNOW nothing exists? Maybe a god could exist but doesn't give a shit that we're boning our daughters and blacks are murdering people in record numbers? What if he doesn't give a shit what we do after we're created?
I didn't claim to KNOW that at some time nothing existed. I think matter may have always existed in some form or other. But I am saying that if you think God is a valid argument as a necessary first cause then you are wrong. The Bible says that nothing existed but god at some point. I never made that claim. I was refuting it.
If I think?.... No. I never said I believed in a god. I was just asking YOU how YOU know there isn't a god. I don't believe there is a god. But I also don't run around telling the world that he isn't real. Because I'm not 100% sure he's fake. I will continue treating him as if he's fake until I die and find out because I don't want to worship any beings that don't prove themselves.
except for the fact that god doesent have a human brain there for doesent think like a human. hes a spirit which means you cant possibly know how they think if they think. because the rules of science dont apply.
and one more thing if im gonna be a robot its gonna be for "Jesus" so in that sense yes im a robot for Jesus!! i heart Jesus,, I heart God!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
bpruby110 20 hours ago
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He did define God:
An intelligent being that created matter
Did you skip that part?
And he disproved God and made it look easy..Win for him, epic fail for your post which was a load of crap...Pun intended.
bpruby110 20 hours ago
and one more thing no offense to those who use fertility just making a point ..and to the poster: do something crazy this week since God is a so called spirit talk directly at it say something write something ,be your self be natural and see what happens let me know the results , i do it all the time and i get answers people come up to me and tell me answers usaully in threes thats just one example of how i get my answers if your curious to know more just ask or just try it your self nd be nice.
bpruby110 1 day ago
do you believe that a devil exists? please answer i see this post is old so hope you see this and answer.t.y.
bpruby110 2 weeks ago
@bpruby110 No. I don't believe in a devil, angels, demons, ghosts or souls. Why would I?
tillnow67 2 days ago
@tillnow67 its like your a robot, no offense do you feel kinda robotic? ,, i mean where do you think your spirit goes when you leave your body or your relatives or anyones for that matter?....may be going a little left field with this but we are given to our parents as a gift and we are not from plants or ibv only get what im saying?
bpruby110 1 day ago
@bpruby110 No, I don't get what you're saying at all. "we are not from plants or ibv only"??? Is that supposed to make sense? And who is more robotic, someone who thinks for themselves or someone who follows the religious programming they have received since childhood? I am so glad you are posting here because YOU are the perfect representative for the religious viewpoint....
tillnow67 22 hours ago
@tillnow67 it was an example ,, but your to smart to know that ,,, this conversation is done i thought you were more intelligent ,, guess as the saying goes to smart for your own good , or another example book smart but not street smart,,, gooooooooooooodbye! thanks for the little chat anyways im going to take my religous freak self thoughts out here now peace!
bpruby110 20 hours ago
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@Landotter1 He did define God:
An intelligent being that created matter
Did you skip that part?
And he disproved God and made it look easy..Win for him, epic fail for your post which was a load of crap...Pun intended.
theBartone9119 1 month ago
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theBartone9119 1 month ago
You sir are quite the philosopher. If these thoughts are your own, I tip my hat to you. I've never heard an argument quite like this anywhere, although I have discussed a similar concept myself.
ChipArgyle 2 months ago
I haven't read all the responses here so I may be repeating what has been said before, sorry if that's the case.
It is incumbent upon the person who asserts the existence of something to demonstrate its existence. The burden of proof is not upon those who say, "it ain't so". I need some evidence to refute; apart from several thousand pages of arguable origin, there's nothing I see that shows me "God".
The diatribe to which I attach this missive is mostly blather.
toetapper04 3 months ago
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TheServiceWeb 5 months ago
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Case fucking closed!
Scottymcfly21 6 months ago
The claim that an entity exists that is all-knowing and all-powerful is impossible. All-knowing is completely (pre-)deterministic and therefore cannot be all powerful. If a being is all-powerful, it can change its mind, and therefore is not all-knowing. The very notion of human free-will, which the religious apologists like to trot out as a supposed answer to the problem of suffering, radically undermines the concept of god, as it would be neither all-knowing nor all-powerful.
stevehayes13 6 months ago
Brilliant...You nailed it in the first 50 seconds ;)
dilwich123 10 months ago
Well done Tillnow67, easy argument, but cool examples.
Theist response to this - but its god!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! he/she/it can do anything!!!!!! have FAITH!!! I like how 'God" gave us these big brains but we cant use em because we dont have a choice, i guess going to hell is a choice, like blowing ya brains out......no choice, no freedom. stupid.
benaberry 10 months ago
And with the probability of this perfect earth in its perfect place in the solar system in the perfect galaxy in the perfect spot in the universe all containing just the right ingredients to automatically or accidentally create life! That probability is just a little to high for my blood (though i don't discount the possibility of life on other planets). The main kicker to me is, if scientist know the chemical make up of a living being, why can't they compile it & make it live? Think about it.
shezie125 11 months ago
@shezie125 Have you been to nunavut? There is nothing perfect there. just death in the form of freezing cold and hunger. We are not designed to live on our own planet.....er our planet is not designed with us in mind. The earth itself kills millions of people every century. Don't you think that if a god cared about us he would have built a safer house for his children.
buddcinder 8 months ago
Reason being, if something is so magnanimous that it can create a universe and all thats in it (just saying) and us as humans can barely use 10% of our brain power, do you really think we can fully grasp it. When describing god, atheist and many theist ascribe many humanistic traits to him, so we actually have a bias that says in us well that not possible because it isn't possible for us! God's existence is the default to the ppl who disagree with accidental creation.
shezie125 11 months ago
I like your take, prior to matter, but question do you believe then that matter began with the big bang, or already existed heating up to create the bang. And by extension, where did the initial matter come from and where/what is the universe expanding into? And in my perspective of god, he exist outside the realm of our capabilities and full understanding.
shezie125 11 months ago
God is gay.
MuhammadFalls 11 months ago
interesting point. nice. got me thinking how could there be the so called 'free will' and an 'all knowing god'.
scotty 11 months ago
What a completely fascinating & refreshing concept! Just when I thought I'd heard / seen every great atheist argument, then I stumble on your wonderful video. Thank you for sharing your knowledge. I'll be sure to put this in my "arsenal of logic" next time the Mormon's come knocking! I like making 'em work for their belief!
vetteluvnh 1 year ago
I admire your disposition vs other atheists on here. I don't believe I can make anyone believe in God. I view it as a revalation. However, since science is just theories based on observations, I've never observed anything develop POOF! out of nothing. So my only nontheological argument is that it make more sense that everything developed from something that I nor science can explain to you, then it came from POOF! nothing. Just a thought.
FreaksFromAbraham 1 year ago
@FreaksFromAbraham
What do you mean with "POOF! out of nothing"?
fossfass 1 year ago
@fossfass before the big bang there was nothing. Our universe is thought (notice it's all theory) to have come from an infinately dense "something" that is termed a singularity. space didn't even exist until the expansion of this singularity. Science can't even explain where singularities come from. In order for these singularities to have been produced, i don't see any evidence in science that can argue that believing in the big bang you have to believe that it all started poof from nothing
FreaksFromAbraham 1 year ago
@FreaksFromAbraham
Actually, no one claims to know what were before the big bang...
The main problem is that the physical models that are used today can't handle the singularity... It's sad, but true.
And while we don't know what happened at the moment of the birth of our universe, we do know that all evidence point towards that the big bang happened. (Background radiation, the movements of galaxies etc.)
And no, we can't, as of now, explain where the singularity came from.
Does that matter?
fossfass 1 year ago
@fossfass The best the bigbang can hope for is that in theory a singularity exsisted n existing black hole and started expanding to create our universe Big bang theory actually keeps changing as it gets disproved like manmade global warmng Comp models can't handle it cause it's bogus Bckground rad exist but is theory about theory Yes it matters bcause people let pagan scientist create theory to make them think they are smarter than they are and like the serpent leads them away from their creator
FreaksFromAbraham 1 year ago
@FreaksFromAbraham are you just throwing around punchlines or do you expect that this mumbo jumbo makes sense to anyone?
BalthazzarCH 1 year ago
@BalthazzarCH yea, i think it's hilarious too and a bunch of mumbo jumbo. I mean I was helping out the big bang theory with giving them the best they could hope for. "they" don't REALLY know what a singularity is or where they come from so I was giving them a best bet They're thought to exist in blck holes but you can't see in black holes go figure hey dude was right about physical models can't handle it wow imagine that. nice way of saying we can't even make a computer spit out what they want
FreaksFromAbraham 1 year ago
@FreaksFromAbraham omg dude, your comments are an awfull mess of words, spiced up with typos... here get some puctuations: [...,,,!!!] use them at free will!
it's really hard to guess what your point is.
black holes: google "evidence for black holes" before you make such a stupid argument... yeah you can't see them but you can't see air eighter... don't you think there are other ways to proof such things? hints: Volume/pressure, gravity (one is for air, the other for black holes)
BalthazzarCH 1 year ago
@FreaksFromAbraham oh and.. computers exactly put out what they expect!
BalthazzarCH 1 year ago
@FreaksFromAbraham the scientific definition of a theory is "the best explaination for an observed process" one of the rules of such an explaination that it has to be observable and reconcludable by an undependand peer. example: we know from the doppler effect that the universe is expandig. we can calculate the positions of other objects in the universe with geometry so we know that all objects are moving away from one point. every mathematician with knowledge of physics agrees. voilà: big bang
BalthazzarCH 1 year ago
@BalthazzarCH
Danke for answering that :)
But the fun thing about the big bang is that everything is moving away from everything else 8D
And Abraham, yes it is a theory... now, do us all a favour and look up what a "scientific theory" means... you can even google it if you want to.
fossfass 1 year ago
@fossfass //"But the fun thing about the big bang is that everything is moving away from everything else 8D"//
imagine yourself the position of a particle that has just been part of an explosion. There are other particles around you, movin away from the explosion. Those in front of you are faster than you, those behind you, slower. those with the same speed of yours are "somehow" next to you but moving in an other agle away from the expolosion... everything is moving away from you ;-)
BalthazzarCH 1 year ago
@BalthazzarCH propaganda is also another name for information but ask people the definition and see what you get. you got to come with some knowledge more than a google search Me, i just like to debate In reality you can't prove the bb anymore than you can prove God all it is is what you chose to believe They'res more physical evidence for bigfoot Me I believe God created everything BB folks believe in the sinularity but you can't PROVE either Anyone want to debate the eve gene or cargon14 i do
FreaksFromAbraham 1 year ago
@FreaksFromAbraham i can show you the evidence that points to a BB in a 500 char box and you are able to check this information... ok you'll need a good telescope and a spectral analyser but thats about it. can you give me any evidence for your skydaddy that doesn't rely on circular argumenting about the truth of the bible? oh.. and don't provide anything that has already been disprooven by potholer54, thunderf00t or AronRa ... cheers!
BalthazzarCH 1 year ago
@BalthazzarCH I can give you evidence that the world and man was not created in the manner that the big bang thinkerdoodles say it was-exactley...carbon 14 and eve gene. in order to except that there was no hand of God involved in the creation of the universe, and to except that after the big bang life just evolved, then you have to believe the rest of the "mumbo jumbo" like we are descendents of apes which the eve gene disproves and the world is mil of yrs old which carbon 14 disproves.
FreaksFromAbraham 1 year ago
@FreaksFromAbraham you're a complete fool on a biblical level. Carbon 14 renews itself constantly within our atmosphere. the theory (or theorum) of evolution does not explain how life began, only the diversity of life on the planet. Do not try and quote books 150 years old, scientific theories change over time (like organisms) with the input of new information/experience. Instead read about Abiogenisis. Geology and Cosmology would be interesting reads to. You obivously only read Kent Hovind.
epshot 1 year ago
@epshot Dude, I wish I remembered what this was all about so I could respond to whatever it is you're getting at but evolution and the big bang fit hand in hand together so..I don't know did I say evolution explains the way life begins??? carbon 14...it's used in radiometric dating...I don't know that we even got into that in this post did we??? Abiogenisi doesn't prove man crawled out of the sea at some point...and just read Hovind on wiki...too bad we don't live in a free country anymore huh?
FreaksFromAbraham 1 year ago
@FreaksFromAbraham Abiogenisis does not try and prove that we crawled from the sea to begin with, only that life was derived from non-life. evolution and cosmology go hand in hand basically because the science of evolutionary biology goes hand in hand, or overlaps well with all other areas of (real) science. carbon 14 is indeed a radio-dating method but it is used in connection with certain time scales. definately not on a geological time-scale. more like... archeological timescales.
epshot 1 year ago
@FreaksFromAbraham hovind is one of the most laughed at creationists. his explanations are basically non sequitors, illogical non scientific rants.
everything you hear from hovind about evolution, big bang and abiogenesis is false. you get a cookie if you find one smart thing that hovind says.
De4sher 1 year ago
@FreaksFromAbraham ps. if you're to lazy to do a little google search before you make up argument, you're actually just saiing that you're a denialist. Well that knowledge is a sin is a docrine of your funny cult anyway... congrats you're a good christian.
BalthazzarCH 1 year ago
@BalthazzarCH I deny that the exact combination of events depicted by the idea that follows the scientific idea that take you from the expantion of the singularity to the present day including the evolution of man and time it took to be formed. My main concern is that the bb idea in totality makes some men believe that in some way it disproves God or that God form the universe and earth. That's my arguement, it doesn't disprove God but 4 some reason people thinks it does.
FreaksFromAbraham 1 year ago
@FreaksFromAbraham i've never met an atheist who claims that the bb theory disproves god in any way. however i often see atheists response with bb theory when they get the good old "but where does everything come from?" question. But "i don't know " would be a valid question two 'cause if BB-theory would turn out to be impossible. That doesn't mean that any supernatural explanation must have it right.
however i've seen a lot of theists who think evolution or BB turns ppl into atheists. dk why.
BalthazzarCH 1 year ago
@FreaksFromAbraham it's a very old strawmens argument that the big bang cam from nothing. If you reject the hypothesis about singularity that is fine. But it's more possible than anything described in any ancient holybook ever. and even if the bb-theory is wrong, my life doesn't change a bit. Only thing we know for sure is that all matter must have come from one point. so if someone asks me "where does everyting come from" i give him the most reasonable explaination i know. and no magic skydady
BalthazzarCH 1 year ago
@BalthazzarCH Actually, magic is against Skydaddies rules. Magic (and the occult)originated from the nimrod line. And if someone asks you where everything comes from you can say the big bang theory made it...Now what do you say when someone asks where did the big bang come from..a singularity...where does that come from..well we're not sure..never seen one, we just think they exist in black holes...just recognize that God made the Big Bang and you'll be on the right path..
FreaksFromAbraham 1 year ago
@FreaksFromAbraham why should i stop repeating the "where does it come from" question when your answer is god? i assume you're talking about the christian god. But what if that god is just a myth and some other "godlike" diety is the cause? What we're talking about here is the main difference between science and theology. one is triing to find explaination for the yet unexplained. The other one wants to find support for its' presumed claims. if we knew everything science would stop ;-)
BalthazzarCH 1 year ago
Lol I just wanna make 1 point it's that theist belive that we cud not understand Anything bout god so eny question u might have is answered by "we cud not understand" -I'm not taking eny sides although I think ppl that do take either side are ideots
1navyseal1962 1 year ago
What I would like to know is: What do theists think their God is made of? What substance, or type of [matter] so to speak is their God comprised of? What does this God use in order to bring objects and matter into existence? By what process? How do this God's thoughts work? Does God have a brain? If not, then how does God think and process information? Can a theist quantify their God? Can they tell us how much "God" there is in the universe? Or how little? Is God present physically?
epshot 1 year ago
@epshot
GOD IS THE ALMIGHTY. HE CAME HE'S HERE HE'S ALIVE IN ALL OF US HE'S AMAZING HAS ALWAYS BEEN HERE GOD WORKS IN MYSTERIOUS WAYS.
^Typical answer. Just wanted to get that out of the way.
ghyprh 1 year ago
this is awesome!
epshot 1 year ago
God is an idea that fills the void in the human condition left behind by fear. Evangelists know this and is why they are such great fearmongers.
tombeardman 1 year ago
You actually really look like a man from a stone age who cannot accept the fact that bacteries nad microbs exist simply because he doesn't see them. You are just a subset of a much bigger set, adn your logic which is given to you by a superior Mind is aplicable in your own dimension but God is beyond of your dimension. Stick it, lay man.
JackSparrowDepp 1 year ago
@JackSparrowDepp are you actually reading what you are writing? Seriously...
jimmyk1107 1 year ago
You seem to be very intelligent but you lack imagination and knowledge. You compare God with yourself and everything you sense in this world but God is not like anything you know. Your argument is like an argument of a blind man who cannot believe that a chair doesn't breath, eat, or speak because he thinks that everything around him is like him. God is not trapped but you are because you bind everything to material, which He created. Don't compare God to urself. Learn Islam, you'll find answer.
JackSparrowDepp 1 year ago
@JackSparrowDepp Thought requires a thinker and a subject. It wouldn't matter how great the thinker was if there was NO subject. You can't get around that simple fact. It doesn't matter how "like" or "unlike your proposed god is. No subject = no thought. Oh, and Muhammad was a child molester.
tillnow67 1 year ago
@tillnow67
Your thinking ability is given to you by God. It means there are things beyond of your capacity which you don't know. You know as much as you are allowed to. You are a subset of a bigger set. You may as well say that God should have the beginning, eat, breath etc. like you do. If you could be able to comprehend all God's attributes then He would cease to be your creator. He is your creator because you cannot comprehend him to the full extent and that is also the other way around.
JackSparrowDepp 1 year ago
@tillnow67
Thought requires a thinker and a subject. Can God himself not be a subject?
And before talking about Muhammed go and learn something about him from reliable Islamic sources, otherwise you look funny.
JackSparrowDepp 1 year ago
@JackSparrowDepp Himself in what terms? He is holy? What does that mean if no sin CAN be committed? He is mighty? Compared to who or what? He is Loving? Who can a god love if nobody else exists? No silly man, god could not be the subject because one can only think of himself in terms of things that are not himself.
And yes, Muhammed was a child molester. How old was his "wife" when he married? Pervert.
tillnow67 1 year ago
@tillnow67
Man, you reall need serious education. First of all, I repeat in once more: you are allowed to comprehend only what you are given to comprehend. You live in one dimension and you cannot know what exists in other dimensions simply because you have no knowledge of those dimensions. You look like a primitive man from a stone age who cannot accept that microbs exist because he has never seen them. All your knowledge is based on the things which exist in dimension you have been living in
JackSparrowDepp 1 year ago
@JackSparrowDepp LOL, you think we live in a one dimensional universe? You are funny. You didn't answer my questions funny man. Describe yourself without referring to anyone or anything else. Can you do that? No. That is why god could not even think about himself if nothing else existed. How old was that pervert Muhammad's "wife" when he married her? Scared to even answer that one?
tillnow67 1 year ago
@tillnow67
Idiot, when I say dimension I am not talking about dimensions which you have when you draw something. Besides, GOD had concepts and ideas about the universe he created, hence about you too, so He could compare Himself to you. As for Muhammed's marriage with Aisha watch this video on youtube and be enlightened lay man: Prophet Muhammad's (s) Marriage to Aisha (ra) - Yusuf Estes
JackSparrowDepp 1 year ago
@JackSparrowDepp Your argument is circular then you blind fool. You say the universe and everything in it exists because of a thinking god, but that his thought was dependent on the future existence of the universe and everything in it. Classic circular reasoning.
Aisha was six years old when he took her and no more than ten when he consummated the marriage. MUHAMMED WAS A CHILD MOLESTING PERVERT!!!!
tillnow67 1 year ago
@tillnow67
Idiot, the video I sent to you is more than 12 minutes, have you watched all of it before calling Muhammed what you do call?
Besides, you failed to respond to my argument that you are not given to comprehend everything, You actually sound like a Master Mind in the universe who can think and comprehend everything and there is nothing beyond your thinking. As I already told you, you know only what you are shown in your own dimensional world.
JackSparrowDepp 1 year ago
@JackSparrowDepp Your argument rests entirely on the unproved assertion that there IS a god who allows me to see only what I am given to see. But you have failed to show that is the case. In fact, you can't even describe how that COULD be the case. Your argument is circular and childish. "Everything exists because of an intelligent being whose intelligence depends on everything existing". THAT is your foolish, circular argument. You blindly follow that foolish child molester.
tillnow67 1 year ago
@tillnow67
I never said God's intelligence depends on every thing existing. He is absolute because he is absolute. You can as well ask a question: "If God created us then who created Him?" You will find a reason for everything until you reach God. He has no reason of his existence as there is nothing beyon Him. He exist because He exists. And you won't be able to comprehend his thinking and other abilities because He is beyond you, He doesn't allow you to do that.
JackSparrowDepp 1 year ago
@JackSparrowDepp You said "Besides, GOD had concepts and ideas about the universe he created, hence about you too, so He could compare Himself to you". If god had to rely on a universe he had not yet created for subjects of thought, then his thought was dependent on that yet to be created universe. Can you think of another way to describe yourself without referring to anyone or anything else? Can you circular boy?
tillnow67 1 year ago
@tillnow67
Besides, if you want a proof that God exists by sensing Him with your senses then don't waste your time as it won't happen. As I said you need education to understand that. Everyone would believe in God if He were showing up every morning in the sky. But that's the whole issue, your life is your test on belief. God never shows Himself but he gives us hidden but apparent evidences on his existence. To believe or not - your choice.
JackSparrowDepp 1 year ago
@JackSparrowDepp At least you admit that there is NO evidence for god. Maybe you should get a dictionary and look up up "hidden" and "apparent" though. LOL
tillnow67 1 year ago 2
@JackSparrowDepp You think it's OK for a grown man to be bangin ten year olds dude? You're a sick fuck.
tillnow67 1 year ago
@tillnow67
I think you have mental problems. Have you watched a video? Who says he was banging her when she was 10?
My God, you are not even intelligent enough to be argued with.
JackSparrowDepp 1 year ago
@JackSparrowDepp Allah was not banging a 10 year old. Muhammed, your prophet, married a girl (Aliya?) At age 7, and began have sexual relations with her when she was 9. This information is derived from your holy book, the Quran. Have you read it?
epshot 1 year ago
You seem to be very intelligent but you lack imagination and knowledge. You compare God with yourself and everything you sense in this world but God is not like anything you know. Your argument is like an argument of a blind man who cannot believe that a chair doesn't breath, eat, or speak because he thinks that everything around him is like him. God is not trapped but you are because you bind everything to
material, which He created.
JackSparrowDepp 1 year ago
If nothing exists the he didn't exist xD
MirageScience 1 year ago
I like this vid, nice rationale. You should look up Spinoza's God, if you haven't already, the same which Einstein and a large portion of the physics community believe in. It's a good approach because it doesn't question God's role in the universe' existence, nor does it hail him for his intelligence.
Unlocalist 1 year ago
I am an atheist and I agree with your views, but you still haven't disproven god. You can make interesting arguments and present ideas to support them, but the fact is, as all scientist know, you can't disprove the existence or prove the existence of anything supernatural. This goes for fairies, leprechauns, unicorns, god or whatever. Sure they seem childish to believe in and you can demonstrate that it is statistically unlikely that they exist, however; you cannot prove it definitively.
music09001 1 year ago
@music09001
I am a muslim and I agree with you that existence of God like 2+2=4 cannot be proved. Because otherwise our life would cease to be a test. However God gives evidence of his existence in many hidden yet apparent ways. Scientific miracles of Qur'an is one example!
JackSparrowDepp 1 year ago
if 'god' is the ultimate creator then i better start praying towards EA....
rareisalive 1 year ago
to simply put it.... natural men can not understand the things of God, because it appears to be foolish to him. Nor can he discern them because those things are discerned spiritually.
this guy is simply on the wrong channel
however, i would love to see this guy brainstorm the apocolypse
parishlg 1 year ago
One flaw here is that if God created the human mind and sensory thought process, then He would not maintain the same process. The human and its creation, the computer cpu, do not think the same. We are not created in God's image, so his "brain" is not a human brain, and thus your logical point takes a hit. Do you know how a proposed God would process?
abudis2cool 1 year ago
@abudis2cool That is interesting. In the end however, the CPU and the brain are both matter-based. There is no other known way of receiving and manipulating information (what we can call intelligence) other than a system that is matter based. A theist must therefore posit this god's processing system to be immaterial if he is to get around the issue. Just my thoughts. Let me know what you think.
mustafaupk 1 year ago
@mustafaupk It doesn't matter whether it's matter based or spiritual or how superior to human brains it is. If nothing exists, thought is impossible. At a minimum thought requires thinker and subject. Creationists say the universe depends on an intelligent being, then they say this being knew everything (though nothing existed) because he saw the future. They're saying the existence of the universe depends on gods intelligence and gods intelligence depended on future existence of the universe.
FiveOClockFriday 1 year ago
@abudis2cool You are missing the point. It doesn't matter at all how a proposed god COULD process something if there was nothing TO process, like the strongest weightlifter conceivable couldn't lift anything if he was all that existed because there would be nothing to lift. Thought requires a thinker and a subject. It wouldn't matter how great the thinker was if there was NO subject.
tillnow67 1 year ago
@tillnow67 The fissure of this debate is whether God is a cognitive being. If God exist, and exist as an all knowing figure, then what does he need to think about? That is the question. Thank you for replying.
abudis2cool 1 year ago
@tillnow67
LOL, abudis2cool is actually right but you fail to grasp his (and also mine) point. You say that thought requires a subject but that very thought which is "thought requires a subject" is a thought inside your brain. Does a cat agree with you on that? Or a tree? Or some insane man? Or a 2-month baby? I bring this examples up for you to understand that everything you think logical is attributed to you yourself and not every "brain" processes in the same way. GOD is not a human being.
JackSparrowDepp 1 year ago
People ae starting to think for themselves. With the advent of the internet and free speech ....we are coming to terms that religion is contradictiory and is false.
moonshineinsummer1 1 year ago
So is he saying matter existed before God? is matter therefore your God? what's da matter no answer? sorry I couldn't help myself, I don't know when matter got here or even what it is, a bunch of atoms of something, but I do believe in one God who is in absolute control of all matter, you say how do you know that" prove it , I can't I just believe it by faith , I can no more change an atheist's mind, than he can change mine. We all live with our beliefs and our choices, peace to all.
mewjaws5754 1 year ago
words are words man you can never disprove god if so prove to me of how the world was created how plants were made you cant a bunch of scientists can get together and come up with a theory but its not enough WHY DO PEOPLE EVEN ARGUE AGAINST THE EXISTENCE OF GOD WHAT JESUS WANTED IS PEACE LOVE AND CARE ISNT THAT WHAT PEOPLE WANT IF NOT THEN YOU ARE MENTALLY ILL DUDE
sukamugen 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
You don't have to prove God - all you have to do is know that guy's "prophet" was a paedophile
bizshekwan 1 year ago
I enjoyed the video. Fun stuff to think about.
coreygames 1 year ago
There is a difference between a belief and a fact. You can believe god is real, but it's not based on any real, credible, factual evidence. You can say god made beautiful mountains, oceans and animals, but you don't say much about him creating bone cancer in children? He just works in mysterious ways huh? Yeah, that seems legit.
RealityOfFreedom 1 year ago
you seem like an intelligent guy after I saw some of your other vids, but this one was weak, weak philosophy
bpgtfg 1 year ago
I assume TheRobertClelland is joking.
And here's the thing. Actually we don't need to prove that God doesn't exist. You need to prove that God DOES.
See I believe that a giant spaghetti monster created the world. Can you prove the giant spaghetti monster doesn't exist?
Andrewgrose666 1 year ago
@Andrewgrose666 That is from a southpark episode :p
CoyotesandLenny 1 year ago
Great job man. I watch ALOT of videos on religion and the people that are religious never make any good pionts or show any sign of critical thinking whatsoever. People that can think like you make the world better, by sifting through religious idiotcy.
omhealer 1 year ago
people need a simple explanation not a complicated one ...
GrooveNinja 1 year ago
I really don't care in fact I wish him well,
CAUSE I'LL BE LAUGHING MY ASS OF WHEN HE'S BURNING IN HELL
TheManurules 1 year ago
@TheManurules How do you know? You have no proof hell exists. And even if it did and you went to heaven and he went to hell. Wouldn't god look down upon laughing at people burning?
CoyotesandLenny 1 year ago
Therefore matter is intelligent, therefore matter is God. Ding a new religion is born! :)
TainoSun 1 year ago
Intelligent, but not infinitely so. And yes, of course matter is intelligent. Look at people. Sure, only some give off the aura of intelligence, but it's there.
pyVlad 1 year ago
@pyVlad : Thumb Up
TainoSun 1 year ago
love your analogies
TainoSun 1 year ago
Wayne I liked this video when I 1st saw it and found new appreciation for it after being exposed to Atlas Shrugged which does a good job of highlighting Aristotelian logic.
It makes a good rebuttal anytime a theist brings up the infinite regression argument.
justintempler 1 year ago
somthin ive always noticed is that wen these things come up, athiests have nothing but pure logic to say. wat do those who r religious have to say? bible bible bible, pray pray pray, belief belief belief. they give NOTHING to truly support their argument.
aiminglow 2 years ago
5 star vid i gave it that many anyway i have seen your vids before and think thay are good to gave them 5 stars i am an atheist to and i live in the bible belt that is the buy bull belt sry i must take that line from the king he talked about you on his vids so i came over more about me i live in s.c have been an atheist for 3 or 4 months told my parents and dad not sure what he thinks as for mom she said i do not have a soul soooo ya she still does not accept it i thank you for your service
helljumper561 2 years ago
Brilliant video.
MrForkbeard 2 years ago
Third - Your squared Circle example is good, but misses the point all together. The question was, a theist to an atheist, disprove God. Both parties have to begin with the understanding that God is the topic. One God/Intelligent Designer, not two different gods. Yes there are not squared circles, but there are squares and circles that are by def. different. You were not asked to disprove two objects that can't exist together by def. you were asked to disprove God which by def. is one thing
TheRobertMcClelland 2 years ago
The Robert said "you were asked to disprove God which by def. is one thing"
What definition are you using Robert? What "one" thing is god? Does he only possess "one" characteristic? Which one? Is he eternal or creative or omniscient? Those characteristics can't exist in the same entity the same way characteristics like 90 degree angles and continuous arcs can't exist in the same two dimensional shape. You missed the point entirely Bob.
tillnow67 2 years ago
God is God. You are trying to make distinctions about characteristics of God and not just focusing on God. Those characteristics can exist within the same entity. Because something is eternal does not mean that it can not create, and to be able to create does not limit omniscience, and omniscience does not rule out eternity. Just because you do not like the fact that those can exist together does not mean it is impossible.
TheRobertMcClelland 2 years ago
No, Bob. You are in denial. To "create" something, to take credit for an ideas conception, there had to have been a time when that idea did not already exist and was unknown to anyone. At what point would an eternal and omniscient god have not known everything? And where is there room for creativity in the materialization process if he knew in exactly every detail how it would be? If he strayed from that prior knowledge, then his prior knowledge was WRONG! He would have no choice in it.
tillnow67 2 years ago
No, there is no denial here. You are again presupposing that I believe in God and am not just pointing out your flawed logic.
To create is defined as to bring into existence something new. Since there was nothing previously "created", anything that God brought into existence would be "new", and thus created. You are adding to the definition of create in order to try to make a point. Who's in denial?
TheRobertMcClelland 2 years ago
You are failing to grasp the distinction between physically manifesting something which already existed conceptually and creating the concept itself. Yes, anything god physically manifested would be physically new, but NOTHING could be a new concept. EVERYTHING would have always existed conceptually.
tillnow67 2 years ago
Again, not failing to grasp the concept. You are again changing the definition of "create" to fit your purpose. The actual definition of create is listed in my last reply. Building off the universally accepted definition of create, anything new brought into existence has therefore been created. Using your made to order definition, you are trying to split the concept of an idea from the actual physical creation process. That is fine to discuss, but are two different things.
TheRobertMcClelland 2 years ago
OK fine Bob. Please tell me how one can physically manifest something without first conceiving it? Yes, I am separating them and making a distinction to make a point. But the point is valid because you can't have the second without the first. Why is that so fucking hard for you to grasp?
tillnow67 2 years ago
Separating the two parts, yes, we agree that if God knew all, the concept would therefore exist. But since the concept had not been present prior to God, therefore all concepts are NEW.
the second part of your definition, the physical manifestation of a concept to reality, seems to be one that we agree on. All physical creation God might have done would have been new. Thus created. So, if we agree on this part, that means that part of your original statement is false. part false = false
TheRobertMcClelland 2 years ago
"But since the concept had not been present prior to God, therefore all concepts are NEW. "
IF GOD IS ETERNAL, THERE WAS NO "PRIOR" TO GOD! EVERYTHING WOULD HAVE ALWAYS EXISTED CONCEPTUALLY. Seriously, are you fucking with me or are you really not getting it? How can you call god eternal and then talk about something "prior to God"? I hope you are joking.
tillnow67 2 years ago
Do you actually read my posts or just begin spouting off? Let me try slowing down for you...BECAUSE God is eternal, all concepts originated with GOD. THEREFORE all concepts are NEW. Then the NEW concept was brought into existence - thus CREATED! Now, seeing that those NEW concepts which God devised were brought into physical existence, by definition CREATED (see above), something eternal can CREATE!
TheRobertMcClelland 2 years ago
"all concepts originated with God" When exactly was God "originated"? Oh yeah, eternal and omniscient, so no "origin" for him and no "origin" for his knowledge. So NO concept could be "new" in this scenario. Please elaborate, at what POINT did God "devise" them if at any point for eternity past they already existed? Dumbass. This is getting tiring explaining the same thing over and over again and watching you struggle with it.
tillnow67 2 years ago 2
Wow. Great logic. never said God originated, but in order to try to deflect the facts, bring it up. No concept could be new? really? at which point did those concepts become known by anyone besides God? using your flawed logic again, there is nothing new "under the sun" then, and thus nothing is created (by definition). even your examples of how to disprove God were known in advance, and thus eternally plagiarized, leaving you devoid and lacking. but God already knew that.
TheRobertMcClelland 2 years ago
Yes. No concept could be new ...TO GOD. Really. I think you are PRETENDING to not get it rather than consider giving up your imaginary friend. Pathetic.
tillnow67 2 years ago
@tillnow67 I liked your video and find it to be pretty original, at least to me but then I'm not a trained philosopher. . But one issue, if I were making the same points and I probably will, I'm bad about stealing the ideas of others:-).
If I'd made this video I'd avoid the language part of the argument. I can imagine playing a chess game, for instance, and seldom would the names of the pieces come into to my thoughts even they're the heart of the game. Thoughts are more abstract in my head.
dimbulb23 1 year ago
And for future thought - the argument of the circular square you brought up in the video...when you take old atheistic arguments (Deems argument of a circular triangle from almost 20 years ago) and try to make them your own by changing one shape, you really should note your source, because as seen in your fans posts, they think that was your creative concept.
TheRobertMcClelland 2 years ago
Never heard of Deems, but it's interesting you bring it up. Are you saying that if I had prior knowledge of it then I couldn't take credit for creating the concept? You fucking dolt, THAT'S the idea you've been arguing against here!
tillnow67 2 years ago
You're right...this is getting tiring. You steal someone's idea, take credit for yourself and when called on it, make a feeble attempt at some sort of humor or idiocy. You be the judge.
This has nothing to do with PRIOR knowledge. did you know the concept in advance of God? NO. No one did, thus NEW. Nothing in the definition of create says the concept has to be NEW, only that you bring something NEW into existence.
TheRobertMcClelland 2 years ago
Second - you say that a God who knows all in advance has no creativity Michelangelo said "I saw the angel in the marble and carved until I set him free." So, using your logic, Michelangelo's sculpture would incur no creativity, and would be nonsensical. i disagree. Knowing how something will turn out does not limit creativity in the process of fulfillment.
TheRobertMcClelland 2 years ago
I'm saying there is a difference between carving an angel out of stone and inventing the idea of angels. Michelangelo already knew what an angel was and how it should look. He didn't create the concept. You failed to grasp the distinction.
tillnow67 2 years ago
No, I do grasp what you said and am pointing out the flaw. You said that a God who knows all in advance thus has no creativity. I said that you can know the concept in advance and yet have creativity in the process of creation. God can know all and still create creatively.
TheRobertMcClelland 2 years ago
So, if you can't fathom something outside of your mind, then it is nonsensical. That is a cop-out answer to disproving God. Your rationale is extremely flawed and limited. First - Why does "God" have to have a mind that thinks in terms of matter? Since that is where you begin, you assume that's where God would begin. That is an assumption based on God being the same as man.
TheRobertMcClelland 2 years ago
Yes. That is what nonsensical means Bob, It doesn't make sense.
God HAS to have a mind that thinks in terms of matter because if God created everything then what else could exist but god and matter? Everything god thinks of would be based on matter except himself which would require matter for context if only god and matter exist.
You can refute this by giving examples of things god could think of which don't require matter.
tillnow67 2 years ago
So if everything else is based on matter except God and God knows all in advance, you presuppose that God must have working knowledge of matter in order to create? Again, I would disagree - with pre-creation knowledge of all - why couldn't a god that knows all, create matter? Just because you can't fathom, it must not be possible?
TheRobertMcClelland 2 years ago
Still not thought of any examples Bob? Not one? Come on, give me one example of something god could have thought of if he was the only thing that existed. Just one. If not, explain how creation can occur without thought.......
tillnow67 2 years ago
Matter.
TheRobertMcClelland 2 years ago
And you will say it is nonsensical...
how can you explain any creative idea for which we had not had any previous knowledge? electricity? Fire? Milk? All of these are nonsensical using your description - clicking two rocks together to attain heat, harnessing energy in a filament, and sucking on the teet of a bovine. And no, there was not working knowledge or a current understanding of those prior to first creation. There were ideas that led to an assumption, but not more.
TheRobertMcClelland 2 years ago
excellent!! Such logic in your explaination.i agree fully with what u said..FULLY! i hate is when relegious ppl say that he knows everything as well..well done
chasewimpy 2 years ago
this is an gift.
Now search for your self plz.
And dont go on anti-islam sites.
There r more anti-islam sites than pro islam.
So be carefully
[6.57] Say: Surely I have manifest proof from my Lord and you call it a lie; I have not with me that which you would hasten; the t judgment is only Allah's; He relates the truth and He is the best of deciders.
AfghDude 2 years ago
I tell you have hate and have no knowlage.
A muslim has a very strong believe in God.
Based on Proof&Faith!
Dont forget that before you go in a discussion!
AfghDude 2 years ago
Wheres my other post?
AfghDude 2 years ago
Allah Fuckin Akbar! Do I have to school you on how to use YouTube too?
tillnow67 2 years ago
AfghDude 2 years ago
ALLAH'O AKBAR!!!!!!!
hahah I know you guys hate this
ALLAH''O AKBAR!!!!
All your argument are weak,
we all broke them.
But dont do that all the time 10.000.000 times.
AfghDude 2 years ago
No I don't hate it when you scream ALLAH'O AKBAR instead of putting together an intellectual response. It only proves that you are an intellectually challenged fool with an imaginary friend. If my arguments are weak and you "break them", then by all means make a response video articulating your points and I will post it. Otherwise, proceed with the caricature that you are.
tillnow67 2 years ago
Most of the Muslims who wants to spread Islam or talk with Ateist
AfghDude 2 years ago
AfghDude got PWNED
BananaRDP 2 years ago
Thank you, for even if you were wrong id rather listen to someone explain the reasoning rather than say, you cant prove he doesnt exist. ofcourse a theist will say that atheism like what you are saying is developed to be creative and persuasive to go against religion, when as we both know; We are simply using our brains
djyasume1 2 years ago
science has not yet made any valid claims as to how the world came into exisistince...none !
seaquest67 2 years ago
Can you disprove the Easter Bunny? Why would I care about disproving something that doesn't exist?! Your reason is faulty. why am I not surprised.
divasue 2 years ago
I'm an atheist. There is no god there's been proof proven by science.
OverInfMagicSpellGod 2 years ago
Great Job ! Suscribed !
The idea of an intelligent designer is an anthropomorphism, mostly Yaweh, a projection of what could be a desert tribe old tyrant, controling, jealous, hateful, mysoginist, and so full of fail.
synsei1 2 years ago 2
We have to define God before we can argue/ talk about whether or not God existed before matter. If we define God as infinite and define infinite as something that doesn't depend on time, space and matter, then, yes God existed before matter. We can think of infinity as a form that can have physical representation but it doesn't have to. The closest example of that would be thinking itself. If we think of a walking tree, it exists in our minds but it doesn't have a physical reality.
XD767 2 years ago
I'm agnostic and believe pretty much what that Viktir666 dude is on about but your whole arguement pivots on proving that God (if he/she/it exists) must think like we do, and there is no reason to believe that whatsoever.
CantonezSpere 2 years ago
Good argument.
I suppose the most obvious answer of where you are wrong is "that doesn't apply to god" - like the idea that everything has a creator, except god. Nothing can exist without matter, except god.
The contradictions never seem to worry the faithful. The idea that god knows everything is incompatible with free will - yet we're supposed to be judged on our actions. None of it makes any sense.
thatgaybloke 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
GOD LOVES YOU
en3mes 2 years ago
Shut up.
coolbeens21 2 years ago
that's your response? "shut up"? that's why i hate christians.
thewritingofmatthew 2 years ago
I'm an atheist.
coolbeens21 2 years ago
Great Response. I love this type of dialog.
Your argument as to no God is based on the premise of no matter. That God created everything out of thin air. Pretty much the same as the big bang. Something from nothing. Why does this have to be the case. The alpha the omega the beginning the end. This applies to our reality. Who is to say our reality is not made from another.
I like the Men in Black example of the galaxy the size of a marble.
dmccurdy51 2 years ago
then he would not be the creator of all even if cretor of this uinivers
hens0w 2 years ago
dmccurdy - it is the Christian bible that says in the beginning the earth was void and without form. i.e "nothing"
The big bang say no such thing. The big bang explains the expansion of the universe and does not propose that all of creation came into being from "nothing". That is the claim of the bible.
thatgaybloke 2 years ago
"tillnow67",
First off, I am not religious so I'm not defending any god. I have a statement/question that I would like you to think about. I agree with 99% of what you have said and it makes logical sense. I'm glad you are a logical thinker, but...
... What if there is a god but even though we perceive things with our FIVE senses, maybe a god has 155 senses? Just because we have 5 senses, doesn't mean a god would be limited to those 5.
What ideas or comments do you have about this statement?
Viktir666 2 years ago
it doesn't matter whether you have 5 or 155 senses if NOTHING EXISTS to be sensed.
tillnow67 2 years ago
How do you KNOW nothing exists? Maybe a god could exist but doesn't give a shit that we're boning our daughters and blacks are murdering people in record numbers? What if he doesn't give a shit what we do after we're created?
Viktir666 2 years ago
I didn't claim to KNOW that at some time nothing existed. I think matter may have always existed in some form or other. But I am saying that if you think God is a valid argument as a necessary first cause then you are wrong. The Bible says that nothing existed but god at some point. I never made that claim. I was refuting it.
tillnow67 2 years ago
If I think?.... No. I never said I believed in a god. I was just asking YOU how YOU know there isn't a god. I don't believe there is a god. But I also don't run around telling the world that he isn't real. Because I'm not 100% sure he's fake. I will continue treating him as if he's fake until I die and find out because I don't want to worship any beings that don't prove themselves.
Viktir666 2 years ago
I'd love to meet your challenge by telling you where you're wrong, but I can't.
Frankly, I think your assessment of the situation is brilliant.
Orsbore 2 years ago
Amazing idea.
teriy4ki 2 years ago
except for the fact that god doesent have a human brain there for doesent think like a human. hes a spirit which means you cant possibly know how they think if they think. because the rules of science dont apply.
eNpHiNy 2 years ago
Oh yeah, God is magic! It makes absolutely NO DIFFERENCE how a being of any kind thinks if there is NOTHING to think about.
tillnow67 2 years ago