you dont look like a native american to me, what are you doing in north america?
the british occupied north america and allowed you to live there, the arabs occupied the middle east and moved there, and now the jews took their old homeland back.. with the support of the UN (which btw wasnt there when your country was created or when the muslims conquered the middle east).
the arabs have been occupying this land for over 1,000 years, but havent been in control for the last 500. history happens.
@Hereticalable dude who r u tryna fool? look back in ancient maps the nabateans lived in southern Palestine, u must be talking about the sabeans that lived in Yemen. Have it ever crossed ur mind that those were converts NOT real israelites cuz the Israelites would never marry outside race or blood, they're just khazars from central Asia
Technically Arabs lived there for thousands of years not only 1800 yrs, there were ancient north Arabs called the Nabateans that spoke a proto Arabic language that derived from the south arab sabean language...
@palestinekingmusic The Nabateans lived in what is now Yemen and Jordan. Nice try...the whole region was conquered by Arabs 1400 years ago - many places are not originally Arabic...like Canaan, Lebanon, Syria, Iraq etc..this is simply the Arab Muslims not wanting to admit that they do not have the right to control the ENTIRE middle east culturally, religiously and demographically. It's sad really - really sad.
@Hereticalable Mexico was once Aztec land,conquered by Spaniards. Now Spanish culture dominates. Does that mean the people's DNA changed? Noooo, the Aztec, and Mayan DNA (meaning genetics) is still there. Hence why many Mexicans still identify as being ethnically Aztec
The fact is, JEWS living in Hevron back in the 1860's called themselves Palestinians. Until the mid-60's the term Palestinian always referred to the Jews of that region. Arabs loathed the term. So you might want to understand what you just proved!
@mitukats Either way, you have Semetic people in the Middle East calling themselves a word derived from 'invader', so etymology can't be all that important.
@JaredHutcheson1 It seems etymology is only important when you want to label non-Arab semites as Arabs...when you want to base your identity on an invading people from the Aegean who were not Semites that's fine though.
@mitukats It doesn't matter what any Jew or Arab called themselves. The simple fact is in the 1860s there were only 30,000 Jews living in the area and over 600,000 Arabs. Even until today it's an Arab majority region. SO, that doesn't give YOU or anyone the right to say they cannot live there, or that YOU or anyone else is more entitled to live there.
In the Hebrew torah, the christian bible and the Islamic Qur'an it says DO NOT STEAL.
@Chinomareno Let's say someone made the argument's of holocaust deniers, then they put a disclaimer "I'm not a holocaust denier", how are you going to think of them? He most certainly "inferred" the Palestinians are an invented people, using the exact same argument's people like Newt Gingrich and far right-wing Israeli zealots who want to try and disassociate the Palestinians with the land and their history.
What I'm saying is where does "He" or anyone get their right from, especially when
Now you are just getting ridiculous, the assertion that Palestinian nationalism is a relatively recent construct is not on the same level as denying a well documented mass extermination, nor is it a unique observation to the Pro-Israeli. National identity is an elusive quality to define, Arabs of Palestine or Arabs? Pan-Arabists have confused the issue so naturally one has to wonder what really holds the people together apart from opposition to the Israelis.
@Chinomareno You're mixing apples and oranges. I'm not comparing it with Palestinian nationalism, I'm comparing it with the denial of Palestinian history.
Watch Joniversity's video so you can see the argument in context. It doesn't matter if you call Palestinian Arabs, "Monkey men from Mars", that's not the point. The point is, no matter WHAT they are called it's unarguable that they have history and ancestral links to the land. Much more so than the Israelis living in the area now
Joniversity never argued against the idea that the Palestinians didn't have a connection to land or a right to a state, just that the Palestinians are not as an ancient a people as Cenk claimed or particularly unique amongst the Arabs other than regional dialectal differences. At most he argued it was a silly choice to latch on to the foreign name derived from the opposition's language of an area to name your national movement after.
@Chinomareno speaking of reading comprehension you should go back to my first comment to you. Palestinians are an ancient people, whether the name they applied to themselves or not is ancient. It is a fact, that while Arab culture would eventually conquer the land of Palestine, much of the ancestry is the same.
Similar to how Christianity now dominates Native American culture, yet the ancient ethnicity is passed on despite the cultural shift...
You mean the one where you basically claimed I said all Arabs are blood thirsty savages? Or the other garbage about Arabs countries being mostly secular?
Why are you babbling this at me? I fail to see how saying the idea of Palestinians being relatively recent somehow means a denial of ancestry. Grow up a bit, don't jump down other peoples throats because they disagree with your narrative. Oh another thing, you are a racist prick toward the end of this video.
@Chinomareno I wasn't referring to you denying their history, if you follow the comments you would know I was referring to Joniversity's approach and arguments, and apologists for those kind of arguments.
Onto your points, to say the Palestinians are unorganized or violent is a complete bastardization of MODERN Palestinian history. Must I remind you guys of Camp David, Oslo, the continued settlements, the war on gaza, all the way through the UN announcement in September of this year
You don't address Jonverstiy and you are basically doing the same to me, you get angry and rattle off your list of talking points without comprehending what the other party actually said; the evidence being this video.
You may also want to be careful claiming people have genetic rights over land, citizenship and statehood are not dependent on this nor should it be. It's also false to claim Ashkenazi Jews are descended from Khazars, it's not backed by the facts.
@Chinomareno I addressed your points accurately. Assuming genetic or ancestral linkage against the Palestinians, and using name games, to say "these are not the same people", is completely retarded. I shouldn't have to explain the obvious, which I've done numerous times, not only on my channel, not only on this video, not in these comment sections.
Your point was the palis are disorganized, so you can't support them. Yet you negate nearly 60 years of Palestinian history to say such things
In the YT video Cenk claimed the Palestinians are descendants of the Philistines... do you agree with him or something? Are they the same people as they were before the Arab conquest? After the Turkish era? pls forget race...
Your argument doesn't even follow anyway, I gave my opinion that due to the recent infighting and the fact PLO is a collection of groups with wider ambitions that their state may not even be stable. That doesn't mean I don't support a state...
@Chinomareno Askenasi Jews (generally) have blue eyes, light skin, STRAIGHT and THIN hair ( important in traditional semitic features), and they're traditionally half breeds, or converts from eastern Europe. They share almost NO genetic lineage with sefardis and mizrahis, or even PALESTINIANS, who are the actual ancestral lineage through the human history of the land.
Modern zionism, is from the eugenics ideas of 18th century, propagated by GENOCIDE supporters like Theodore Herzl.
@Chinomareno I don't have to explain this to Joniversity, because he's aware of this history. but the fact I have to even waste 1000 characters highlighting it for you shows your ignorance. You have google, amazon and a bank account.
Buy some fucking books, read up online, and quit sounding like an ignorant mouthpiece for eugenics and racist nationalism (almost the same ideology as NAZIS), supporters.
You spending 1000 words replying only illustrated just how angry you are as a person, how prone you are to committing fallacies and how obsessed with race you are.
You don't address Jonverstiy and you are basically doing the same to me, you get angry and rattle off your list of talking points without comprehending what the other party actually said; the evidence being this video.
You may also want to be careful claiming people have genetic rights over land, citizenship and statehood are not dependent on this nor should it be. It's also false to claim Ashkenazi Jews are descended from Khazars, it's not backed by the facts.
@Chinomareno ... if you don't like getting jumped on for saying stupid and uneducated things, bastardizing the struggles or the organization skills of a displaced people who are taking the same approach as the early modern zionism movement, then you either have a biased or ignorant view of history and facts.
Expect it when you say ignorant things without basic understanding of modern geopolitics and history of the region
Get over yourself please, I didn't claim anything shocking. I'm not the one that looks at someone's skin color then tells them they have more relation to Queen Elizabeth.
When did I bastardize anyone's struggle? Hamas' conflict with Fatah is old news. Between the Gaza Strip and West Bank there is political division and violent factions although the PLO may have calmed that down for now it's no guarantee they will cooperate in the future.
@Chinomareno That's why I said if someone is going to make holocaust denial arguments, then claim to not be a holocaust denier it makes it an oxymoron. Same with someone trying to say these ancient cultures with similar names has no relation to the Palestinians, when clearly it does if you apply just the slightest bit of effort and critical thinking skills
At the end of the day it only a comment on a label, nothing else. Whether or not the Palestinians get a non contiguous state seems unimportant to me at this point, more importantly they seem to have very little identification to each other with their competing Authorities. The national myths can be fabricated later, at this point nothing has really stuck out to me to say this generation of refugees can even keep a country together even if they gain one.
@Chinomareno Well it doesn't matter how you personally feel about it. The reality of the issue is there are a large number of displaced people. If Israel is forced to accept them under an Israeli state, then Israel loses it's Jewish identity. If the suffering of these displaced people continues, the only two possibilities are full on ethnic cleansing, or even genocide for Israel to preserve its Jewish identity. Either choice, would damage and eventually destroy Israel in the long run
It's a rather arrogant position to assume such a slippery slope scenario is the only outcome in the first place. Secondly, why should Israel accept millions of immigrants and sabotage it's own project? Would you accept the same happening to the Palestinians to satisfy some fanciful principles? I only accept practical ideas, Palestine can exist but don't expect the right of return for 7 million descendants from 1948.
@Chinomareno So maybe you don't care about the Palestinians, but maybe you'll care how this will destroy Israel and eventually plague the US as well for supporting Israel when the shit really hits the fan.
BTW, if you claim to be disgusted with the holocaust, you have no excuse to shrug your shoulders at the plight of the Palestinians, despite what you think of their culture or lackof... On a human level, no honest person with a heart could support the injustices plagued on them from Israel
Sigh... Please at least try to have some form. If your reading comprehension is that poor I'd be surprised so I'll give you the dignity of assuming you're being knowingly dishonest. If your are satisfied with a group of divided people split between violent factions being granted non-contiguous land to govern then so be it but please don't claim a position for me.
@Chinomareno .... "He" identifies himself as an atheist. I personally think anyone has the right to live anywhere they want. But not at the expense of another people. And if someone doesn't believe in the ideology of oppressing the Palestinians they shouldn't shame themselves by using the arguments of those who do want to oppress them
@skinnywhop87 The Arab controlled lands are around 700 times that of the Jews. On the subject of not stealing are you suggesting that the entire middle east has always been Arabic and that everyone else there like the Jews, Kurds etc are simply after Arab land despite being older peoples with a longer history in the region?
I agree not stealing is good - and I agree getting back what is yours is also good, depending on how it is done.
@Hereticalable Arabs didn't steal any land from Jews, in fact if you know history you would know that when the Arabs were run out of Europe by the Catholics, the Jews went with the Arabs. The shepardis, Mizrahis, ect moved out of Spain, Italy, Portugal, France, ect to escape western forces, to live FREELY among Arabs. Even in places like Tunisia, to this very day the Jewish populations aren't only welcomed they're well respected
@jonahfox lol how did I know you would view this video? Oh yeah... Because you view every video on the subject. Do you work for the ADL, or are you just a ideological troll?
Also, "Arabs being ethnically cleansed" is bullshit. There were Arabs in the Knesset during the FOUNDING of Israel! Stop with your propaganda bullshit!
@ThinkToFreedom Kenesset membership of Arabs only represents 20% of the ISRAELI-arab population. It has NOTHING to do with arabs in the OCCUPIED territories.
Also which ethnic cleansing of Jews are you talking about the in the Arab world? Because PALESTINIANS have nothing to do with Jews being ousted out of Iraq or anywhere else.
You trying to collectively blame ALL Arabs, would be like ALL Jews blaming the ENTIRE western world for the holocaust, despite only a MINORITY are responsible for it
@skinnywhop87 Excuse me? I am not blaming all Arabs. I am blaming the Arab governments and organizations. The very organizations that ethnically cleansed Jews and continue to threaten the existence of the Jewish people in the middle east include the Palestinian organizations. What happened to the Jews living in Judea? What happened to the Jews living in Gush Katif? I'll tell you what happened, they were kicked to the border by the Palestinian organizations.
How do you explain the ethnic cleansing of Jews by Arab nations huh? How do you explain that Yasser Arafat, the leader of the Palestinian movement, was born in Egypt huh? Huh???
@ThinkToFreedom How would you like it if all the Japanese blamed all Jews for the atomic bomb drop on Hiroshima, just because Einstein (a Jew) came up with the theory of relativity? That's pretty much what you're doing
@skinnywhop87 You falsely blamed Israel for ethnically cleansing an Arab population. You used this argument to say why can't the Arabs live in their land (within the borders of Israel)? The answer is some of them do. But now I'm asking, what about the Jews who were ethnically cleansed from what is now Palestinian territory (no Jews living there!)? And most of the other territories? Don't they too have a right to live in those lands?
@ThinkToFreedom Oh and by Palestinian territory, I mean the territories which are called "Gaza" and the "West Bank" today, which are under PLO and Hamas rule (also did you know that the West Bank's name was created by Jordan in 1948?).
The reason the Kurds aren't as followed is because the Kurds don't have a giant oil backed, UN backed propaganda media apparatus dedicated to their suffering demonizing Arabs and Iranians every chance they get. Also the Arabs nor the Iranians care even remotely about the Kurds because they are hypocrites.They complain about Israel and human rights while denying the Kurds their basic human rights. That is why no one cares about the Kurds.How about the Arabs show a little integrity and mention it?
From the poster: "The fact is Arabs (whatever cultural identity you want to apply to them) Lived there for 1800 years." - and the Jews have a documented presence going back 3100 years (as per non-biblical sources like Egyptian records of the time).
It seems having 700 times more land than the Jews isn't enough for the Arabs...and that's after 900,000 Jews had to leave their homes around the "Arab World"in 1948.
@Hereticalable Not just "had to leave" - they were expelled, exiled, they were bitten, their possessions were confiscated. This skinnywhop doesn't give a shit about it.
@77unclefedor Of course...it only matters when the Arab (and mostly Muslim) majority who've annexed and ran most of the region for the last 1400 years have something bad happen to them. Don't mention the two state solution was supposed to be Israel and Jordan whatever you do...
@Hereticalable Can you define what's an "Arab"? If you think an Egyptian, and Lebanese, or Moroccon and Jordanian are the same. They each have completely different cultures.
It doesn't matter if Arabs have 100 countries, it's not acceptable to steal from ANYONE. And until Israel can define what a jew is clearly, u can't complain about a Jewish state. Especially because the largest group in Israel are the Mizrahis who are ARAB Jews. So even with Israel as a Jewish state its still ethnically arab
@skinnywhop87 Israel has clearly defined who is a Jew for a long time. And it's ethnically Semitic not Arabic...saying the Mizrahis are Arabs is like saying the Scottish are English not European.
@skinnywhop87 Ethnic is not always the same thing as race. An ethnic group can be multi-racial. If we want to start on the "purity" thing let's have a look at all the mixed Arabs out there, including the King of Jordan...does it really matter if someone is mixed or has been adopted into the ethnic group?
@Hereticalable lol semitic doesn't refer to "race" (whatever vague definition you want to try to apply to that). Semitism is a variety of cultural and linguistic heritage evolved out of ancient Babylonian and even Mesopotamian cultures. It's a central Asiatic cultural identity. It has almost nothing to do with race. It's strictly about culture and linguistics and has very little to do with race
The only thing that makes ANY jew semitic is the Hebrew language and culture
@skinnywhop87 So all those similar looking Mizrahim, Arabs, Kurds, Assyrians etc are only related by language and nothing else?
I won't bother referring you to the numerous DNA studies, the similar looks, the long histories, the cultures etc...you are obviously not someone able to think rationally.
@Hereticalable Mizrahis are Arabs. and arab are semitic people, so are Turks, Iranians, Greeks, and Armenians. So maybe you should learn what a semite is ;)
@Hereticalable lol you should actually ask a Greek and Turk yourself, not only that study the origins of their cultures and LANGUAGES.
Hebrew the first letter is Aleph, in Greek it's Alpha.. Hebrew the second letter is Bet, in Greek its Beta... Heb has Dalet, greek it's Delta.. And so on.
Durrrrr. lol I dunno how foolish you want to keep making yourself look. but bring it on ;)
@skinnywhop87 The Turks origins are in Central Asia. Linguistically they are kin to the Mongols, the Kazaks, the Krygyz and the Uzebeks. No Turk will say they are semiites, and NO Greek will ever say they are Semites because they are not. ALL alphabets follow a similar sound order - by your reasoning English, Mandarin, German and Swahili are semitic because they follow the same sound order when writing their alphabet. Millions of linguists would disagree with you.
@Hereticalable They actually are, even culturally speaking, but genetically as well. Semetism evolved out of central Asia. The Babylonian and Mesopotamian cultures are the first semitic based languages. Greek language and people share many of the same traits and genetic markers as Mediterranean Jews. (IE olive tinted skin, thick curly hair, hooked nose, and dignified eyebrow and forehead ridge)
@skinnywhop87 So complete is the 1400 year occupation of the entire middle east by Arabs than everyone living there seems to be now an Arab. Tell me, are the Kurds also Arabs because they live in the Arab dominated middle east too? The Mizrahis have an older history than the Arabs, they are Jews who lived in countries conquered by Arabs. And around 50% of Israelis are Mizrahi today...many look exactly like the other semites of the region, including the Arabs.
@Hereticalable Yes, many Kurds do describe themselves Arabs, because it's a cultural identity. Arab lineage ethnically only exists in the gulf states, where even there many share Bedouin, African, and Central Asian ancestry.
If you go down all the different "Arab" countries, the only unifying feature is Arabic language. Not Islamic religion, and not ancestry. In places like Libya, Tunisia, and Algeria the people will call themselves Arabs, but they're ethnic Berbers
@Hereticalable In places like Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, they're mixes of Coptics, Greek Orthodox, Sunni, Shia, Assyrians.. But they all classify themselves as Arabs. Even in Iraq, where the majority of people have persian Ancestry (similar to Iran where it's not classifed as an Arab country), the Iraqis still classify themselves as Arabs.
Even in Mizrahi Jewish cultures, they didn't maintain Aramaic, Hebrew or Yiddish culture.. They spoke ARABIC and we classified as Arab Jews, even till this day
It seems to me that you missed the point of the video you are responding to.
As I see it, the original video points out mistakes and inaccuracies regarding claims of a ancient Palestinian people, presenting the actual facts on the matter. He adds a disclaimer saying that this has no impact on their right for self-definition, and I agree. Nowhere in the video does he claim this gives Jews a special right to live in the area.
Your response hinges on that unsaid implication, so misses the mark.
@Polymeron no i didn't miss the point, I used the same logic against Israel. Can define what unites Diana Boston, the secularist Jews in Israel, the Mizrahis, The Ashkenasis, the sefardis and so on. If someone is going to question Palestinian history, they should clearly define theirs first
@skinnywhop87 How is this even remotely "the same logic"?
Joniversity was debunking a bunch of wrong/irrelevant claims, backing it by facts. Which claims in the quoted video were you debunking, using what evidence?
You say you were doing the same thing "against Israel", yet Joniversity did not direct his comments "against Palestine" nor denied the right of self-definition. So again, looks like apples and oranges.
@skinnywhop87 The whole point was this is NOT Palestinian history... And I know enough Palestinians who will tell you the same, and will take offense at the suggestion otherwise raised by TYT.
@Polymeron You've got it mostly correct, however he was making the arguments about lack of a mapped place called Palestine during PART of the Ottoman (which isn't totally true, as I told him in these comments Herzl was a representative to PALESTINE for the Sultan of the Ottoman and spoke in his own journal referring to the Palestinians Arabs as "Palestinian Arabs". he made the false claim saying only jews referred to themselves as such.
I'll admit to not knowing the particular details on this. However, TYT's original claim that the Palestinian people is thousands of years old based on the Roman use of the word still falls flat.
@Polymeron I don't think so, because the genetic link to the land is still there. For example, before there was ever a Mexico, there were Aztec and Mayan people living there and these were the empires of the time. Now, most Mexicans are linked to one or the other, and many still consider themselves Aztec-Mexicans.
This is the same for Palestine. The people living there, whether they're called "Arab" or "Palestinian", it doesn't matter because their ancestry is there in that land
@Polymeron He was making the same arguments I've heard from so many Israeli right-wingers saying, "The Palestinians are an invented people, they only called themselves the Palestinians for political reasons starting in the 20's" or 50s (depending on who you ask).
To me that's the same as someone making arguments for holocaust denial, then at the end trying to say they're not a holocaust denier
@skinnywhop87 Gingrich made claims similar to the Israeli right wing, yes. And it was dumb of him to do so, since the Palestinians' length of history is irrelevant to their present-day self definition.
However, Joniversity did not. He was merely debunking a really dumb response to Gingrich's hiccup, all the while disclaiming that he was not otherwise supporting him.
Seems more like a knee-jerk reaction rather than focusing on the actual content of the video you were criticizing.
@skinnywhop87 Saying they are an invented people doesn't automatically mean you want to deny them a place to live or start killing them off does it? It's just a statement of fact - they are an invented weapon in a proxy war against the only non-Arab majority state in the middle east. Peace still needs to found, land disputes still need to be settled and people still need to have a future regardless.
Turks committed a genocidal attack on Armenians and rid their country of Kurdish people and Greeks as well. They are extremely racist. Your viewpoint is not based upon history or facts at all.
@72Yonatan Theodore Herzl (one of your founding fathers) ran a propagandist journal for the Sultan of the Ottoman during the first string of massacres towards the Armenians :)
Israelis are extremely racist, everytime you steal a new piece of land you are continuing the death rate of the holocaust.
How many Palestinians need to die for a holocaust they had no role in? How would Israel like it if Native Americans stole their land in response to how the US government treated them?
You are extremely uneducated-Arabs generally did not live in the ancient kingdoms of Judea and Israel. Ashkenazi Jews migrated from the ancient land of Judea and Israel to Europe even before your ancestors could read or write. Arabs are the aggressors toward Jews, and not vice versa. Jon is not any relation to the Queen, who is of German descent, and yes, Abraham's descendants were white semitic people. It is the "Pilishtim" who were Mycenean Greek invadors from "Caphtor" according to the bible.
@72Yonatan I never said Arabs lived in ANCIENT Israel, so listen first. From the time the Romans took over until 1948 there was NO Israel, in that time there were Arab inhabitants.
Ashkenasi jews were never in Israel until after 1931 so get your facts straight.
Abraham or his ancestry were not white. Abraham from the city of Ur in Iraq same with his sons, Moses was from Egypt. There is no white ancestry in that line, it's central asian.
There were not Arabs living here until after the Islamic conquest of the 7th century. You obviously do not bother to read or study history at all, but talk from television and media impressions. Get some solid academic sources and you will find some light at the end of your tunnel. And Arabs ARE white people, so your concepts about race are deficient. Asia is filled with many white peoples as well as asiatics who are not "white."
@skinnywhop87 In that time there were also Byzantines, Jews, Arabs, Crusaders, and Turks in that order...it's never been occupied only by Arabs - and the Arabs were only in control of the area for a few centuries. If anything the Ottomans ran for longest.
Abraham probably didn't exist but he would have been a semite not central asian (which is inhabited by Turkic peoples). Either way not European, even if he was pale skinned.
You have not read the genetic studies which came out of Israel, so this show that you have an anti-Israel and anti-Jewish slant. What does that make you? Hope a light went on.
@72Yonatan lol anti-Jewish? maybe that will stick with someone else. Genetic studies show that even people from isolated Inuit villages share almost the same genetics as people in Africa. So you have to be specific
Tell me what gene unites all Jews. Tell me the exact gene that is found in and ONLY in all Jewish groups. If you can't you're just spotting zionist pseudoscience
@72Yonatan The bible does not state what color people are, unless they refer to darker skin on occasion. Or let me know what you're referring to, I'll check it out.
K) Ethically cleansed? watch this: /watch?v=nakuOWRDVlI L) So are Jews are suppose to look a certain way to be Jews? Is it just my color (which is shared by many indigenous Lebanese and Syrians as BTW many of our genetic markers) or maybe it's my nose? M) The Kazars? you gotta be kidding... You've been listening to David Duke too much... /watch?v=IRtc0XaA5k0 N) King David - i already responded to that B.S. on my video. O) Question your views which are based on Radical Muslim and Racist rhetoric.
@Joniversity K)No, Jews don't have to look anyway to be Jews. But they have to look a certain way to prove they have relevant ancestry to the land for their to be an argument that it's their ancestral homeland. BTW many Lebanese and Syrian's European features come from French and English colonization of the Land during the early 20th century. Same reason many Tunisians also have blue eyes and light skin, they're still culturally Arabic
Israeli Jews do have common features, although we have small populations of Jews from Africa and Asia that maintain certain features of their most recent locale. You again prove your ignorance here. And why are you silent about the real people called Kurds and their lack of political expression in a modern state? Arabs have 22 states, so they are not lacking any political opportunity. The Pals are just a political tool to destroy Israel. Do you get an adrenaline rush hating Jews?
@72Yonatan Again I asked for a gene, you made a claim and now you're resorting to similarities. BTW Moroccan Sefadi's look more like Moroccan Arabs than Askenasi or Mizrahis or even Yeminites. Palestine isn't a political tool to destroy Israe, it's a tool give the JUST rights of the Arab inhabitants to their HOMELAND. That they lived in for generations.
lol Oh yeah, uf mipo idyot on your stupid Jew hate shit, you're talking to a Jew. Just not a nazi like you (oops i mean zionist)
@skinnywhop87 "Palestine isn't a political tool to destroy Israe, it's a tool give the JUST rights of the Arab inhabitants to their HOMELAND" - so what's the problem, let them live along Israel... wait... do they want to ? And your "gene therapy" is annoying, as well as your obsession to call every pro-Israeli a racist. "That they lived in for generations", as well as Jews, but somehow there is too much denial of this fact.
@77unclefedor When Israelis are making arguments in favor of ethnic cleaning policies I have good reason to call them racists.
In 1993 The PLO recognized the existence of Israel, in 2002 the Saudis created a peace deal on the condition that Israel withdrew from the occupied territory which would've given it full recognition of ALL 22 Arab states and even Iran. in 2006 Hamas recognized it's existence. Yesterday Hamas pledged to give up terrorism
@skinnywhop87 You seem to be a smart person, but you've taken for granted 1993 PLO recognition (Arafat made a scene before Clinton & the next day announced that thousands of shahids are marching to Jerusalem). PLO always addressed arabs with one message and USA/naive & biased media with another. Iran ? Recognition of Israel? Cooperation with suni Saudis ? ;) Hamas pledged to give up terrorism ? By presenting statistics of killed / injured Jews during past decades. Naive...
@77unclefedor I think the PLO has been more than peaceful towards Israel. You should read "The Palestine Papers" from Wikileaks in 2009. It shows the PLO begging the Israelis for any deal, and still getting spit in the face. They were even willing to give up all but one neighborhood in Jerusalem.
As for Hamas, I don't agree with the rocket attacks because they are indiscriminate, but if their operations are directed at the IDF as a defensive measure I think that's more than fair and legal
PLO strategy remains the same since it's foundation, the tactics are different and deceptive. Arafat didn't accept what Barak gave him in Camp David's talks and waged clashes, he died with the same "jihadic" rhetoric on his lips, Abbas didn't accept even more from Olmert, these leaders simply don't want Israel to exist. So who is getting spit in the face? Hamas is a terrorist organization, differentiating between it's targets is a dangerous idea.
@77unclefedor Israel didn't honor Camp david. In case you're unaware it was Israel that started expanding it's settlements in Gaza, Jerusalem, and the West Bank, then shortly after when Rabine was assassinated (by a right-wing Israeli nut I might add), that's when Israel started shitting on the accords and completely broke the agreements. Which eventually lead to the second intifada.
@77unclefedor A lot of the propaganda about Iran is nonsense. Iran and Israel had good diplomatic relations until the late 1990's. It's possible for them to be obtained again. Also based on statistics, more Palestinians children have been harmed in just on invasion, than all Israelis killed by rockets and suicide attacks in the past 20 years
@skinnywhop87 2/2 If Hamas' operations are directed at the IDF, there is always "collateral" damage, on both sides, that's why any differentiation strengths terror.
Palestinians children have been harmed because of Hamas (as a human shield). Israel doesn't target Palestinian children, Hamas does it deliberately to Palestinian & Israeli children. Israel-Iran relation will be obtained when Khomeini, his gang & Ahmedinijad are dead and Iran is a democracy...
@77unclefedor Palestinians don't have automatic rifles, white phosphorous, tank shells and bulldozers
These are what killed most of them. Fired by ISRAELIS, not Hamas. What you're saying is equal to a rapist telling a rape victim it's their fault they got raped. Inconsiderate genocide supporting sick person. You need your head examined
@skinnywhop87 Sorry I called you smart person (my mistake), you are an idiot. You demand the proof of a "Jewish gene" presence, otherwise Jews have no historic right over the land ? Smells really bad, stinks like pure racism. How convenient to stick to some catchy gene theory.Who exactly delegated you the right to argue in favor of Khazars, or Moroccan Jews being closer to Arabs then to Ashkenazi Jews? Are you some kind of professor for "Applied genetics" ? Self-proclaimed Mendel ?
@skinnywhop87 Your vision is a mixture of pseudo-liberalism, hatred , terror-rationalization & excuse for terrorism, false tolerance, ideological self-mutilation, revisionism of History, populism ,demagoguery. People like you don't want any peace, all you want is a pathetic provocation. A peace between Israel & Palestine will be achieved by self-honesty, realism, human rights and lives protection, self-defense when needed.
@77unclefedor what hatred? I don't hate anything accept hypocrisy, if you don't evidence to back up all your adjectives then don't say them, it's an insult to both yours and my intelligence.
Don't tell me or anyone that the Palestinians have to sit back and just accept what crimes Israel has committed. Don't rationalize the stealing of land by calling your opposition racist for pointing it out. I don't wish death or diaspora on anyone. Which is more than i can say about YOU
@skinnywhop87 A peace will be achieved when a true Palestinian leader emerges,the one with genuine desire for peace, the one who'll convince his people to change their state of mind (through school books, anti-terrorism agenda, civil rights, economic cooperation & painful decisions regarding territorial swaps, borders, refugees issue etc.). Hateful vessels like you only prolong the current state of Palestinian suicidally & world's enmity towards Israel. Examine your own head.
@77unclefedor "The arabs have 22 other countries why don't they just move", screw that shit. If you're anti-terrorism than where's your condemnation of the king david hotel massacre, where's your condemnation of Deir Yassin? Where's your condemnation of the levon affair? Where's you condemnation of Israel's LIES during 1967? Where's your condemnation of Israel bombing civilians in Beirut? You don't care about terrorism, you're just a hypocrite
@skinnywhop87 "The arabs have 22 other countries why don't they just move" ? Did I said that ? WTF are YOU talking about, filthy hypocrite like yourself ? "Israeli" massacres & "Israeli" lies & "Israeli war crimes" in every one of your hateful sentences... Your perception of reality is a sick rationalization of evil, you've lost any ties with history, you're spitting hatred, go on and really check your head.
@77unclefedor It's the rationalization you guys use. Check the comments on here. You are the one rationalizing evil. You're supporting a nation who's centered around it's military, like the nazis... You're rationalizing a nation that annexes land from it's neighbors, like the Nazis. You're rationalizing wars of aggression for with the excuse of "national security" when really it's an excuse to STEAL more land and resources. You're rationalizing a nation that is ethnically and religiously based
@77unclefedor ... like the nazis...You're supporting a nation that has systematically forced a semitic people into a open air prison (like the nazis)... I might also add that most of Gaza's residents are NOT from Gaza, they're refugees from Eretz Israel. So there's your evidence you're no better than a nazi. Where's your evidence against me? i've asked you for it for nearly 24 hours and you've still provided nothing but your OPINION
@skinnywhop87 BTW, Barak attended 2000 Camp David Summit (after Rabin's assassination), Israel's unilateral disengagement with Gaza happened in 2005, chronologically challenged idiot. Palestinians pissed on every agreement because of their strategy, as I've mentioned earlier. About OPINIONS: you have bullshit for evidence. It's all about opinions, you gave your explanation, your meaning, your interpretation (or should I say MISINTERPRETATION) of facts. I'm done, screw yourself.
@77unclefedor Barak came into office on the premise of NOT accepting camp David. lol Oh yeah, wasn't Barak that instituted the separation wall in 2002 which was condemned even by the US for being the BIGGEST road block to peace
@skinnywhop87 On 9/13/1993, the same day that Arafat signed the Declaration of Principles of the Oslo Accords on the White House lawn, Arafat appeared in a taped interview on Jordan TV: "Since we cannot defeat Israel in war, we do it in stages. We take any and every territory that we can of Palestine, and establish a sovereignty there, and we use it as a springboard to take more. When the time comes, we can get the Arab nations to join us for the final blow against Israel."
@skinnywhop87 3/31/77, interview with the Dutch newspaper,Amsterdam-based newspaper "Dagblad de Verdieping Trouw", March 31, 1977, PLO executive committee member Zahir Muhsein said: "The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people. cont..
@skinnywhop87 Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa, while as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem. - (So the concepts 'Palestine' and 'Palestinian nation' are just a set of ruses that the terrorists have foisted upon the world in order to forward their terrorist aims).
@skinnywhop87 Whats fair?! for a Muslim,the planet earth is not enough..Dar el harab..i just wonder,where were the "Palastinian" "freedom" "movement" before 67?! or before 48?! or ever before?! when Jordan and Egypt were occupying the land,the "Palastinian" were Jordanian or Egyptian..Jews are the reason..once the Jews stop from being Dimmis,the Arab go wild..Don't forget that the same Nation who created Israel are the same who created 22 Muslim land..not enough,right? Palasine-Taqya works..
@ofirb10 Actually the Arabs were pretty moderate until the creation of Israel. Radical Salifist islam is a SIDE-EFFECT of Zionism. Similar how the radical segregationists in America during the 1960's gave rise to the black Panthers.
Also, the 22 Arab states you speak of were created by WESTERN COLONIALISTS. Let me define what borders YOU can live on, and what rights YOU can have. Then we'll see if you rebel against it. Sound fair?
@skinnywhop87 Yeah they were moderate, one only has to look at the empire they carved up, including how the annexed a third of the christian world (which they still occupy) before the first crusade even to see how moderate Arabs are...
@Hereticalable again you're collectively blaming... If the US invades Iraq, is it the whole US to blame or the government? Hitler creates the 3rd reich, do you blame all Germans eternally?
If you say yes, than you're too stupid for me to debate with. Because you're applying that same logic to the Arabs collectively.
Do you blame England for the Spanish Inquisition just because they're both western Europeans too?
@skinnywhop87 Ok, let's lay it at the feet of the Arab leaders and governments. Then we only have to blame Hamas and the PLO, whose charters both state Israel will be wiped out and the Jews pushed into the sea. Let's look at the dictatorial governments around the Arab world (where I have lived before) and ignore their masses. Speaking of masses the amount of Islamic parties being elected in the wake of the Arab Sping makes you wonder doesn't it?
@Hereticalable Firstly, you could complain about Islamic regimes being democratically elected, as long as you weren't arguing in favor a Jewish theocracy
With that aside, google the 2002 Saudi peace deal, where Israel has had the chance for normalized relations with ALL Arab states and even Iran, for withdrawing from the occupied territories (which is Israeli policy to do anyways)...
yet since then Israel has continued the separation wall (on land that doesn't belong to it) and settlements
@skinnywhop87 Mm..lets see,in 2002,174 Israeli were killed by Islamic Terror..so,while the Saudi,the great example of freedom and human rights,asked Israel to withdrawal from its own land,Hamas,Fatach,Jihad,el aqsa squad..were spreading their peace all over Israel..And insted of join Saudi ,we built a wall against the suicide attacks..
p.s
You never answer my question on the "Palestinian freedom movement" pre 67,48,ever?! as long as Arab/Muslim ocupied the land..
@ofirb10 Let's see, 2009 over 400 Palestinian CHILDREN were killed by Israeli terrorism. In 2006, another few hundred Lebanese CHILDREN were killed. How about Deir Yassin? King David Hotel? The Levon Affair? The attack on the USS Liberty? Israeli terrorism hasn't only killed more people than Islamic terrorism, until Gaddafi had the PanAm flight high jacked, Israel had the record for the largest and most brutal terrorist attack against the west ;)
@skinnywhop87 I'm sorry.you jump like a clown circus..you were talking about the yr 2002.right? Israel "missed" the golden ticket to "Islam is peace" wonderland...as for the dead Palestinian,well,if you fire from denst civilian area,using them as human shield and then cry for help..and lets not forget the great Paliwood industry..
As for the USS lIBERTY,lAVON AFAIR..yawn..King david..Yawn..whats that in the river of blood you Muslim left behind Muhamad?! google Islamic terror body count..
@Hereticalable so do explain who's really blocking the peace.
Is it Egypt building settlements in Palestine? Nooooo... Is it Lebanon? Noooo... Is it even Syria? Noooo... So blaming other nations for what ISRAEL does makes no logical sense, and shifting the blame is something for idiots. I would like to think you're more intelligent than that. Make an argument for Israel without invoking other countries faults, if it's at all possible for you to do
@Hereticalable "How odd, a mixed race man in a mixed race relationship with mixed race children is a racist" that is a racist statement it itself because you trying to say that a mixed race person cant be racist
@Hereticalable You're not winning any friends for Israel with these sorts of comments. Also, You have this as your only warning. I'm happy to debate with you or exchange ideas, but if you any racism on my page again you'll be blocked from this page.
@skinnywhop87 "Racist" is a word thrown around a lot these days. I'd be interested to know why you think I am being racist.
I find it ironic you accuse me of being a Nazi too since my family fought the Nazis, unlike the family of people like Hajj Amin and many of the Arab nationalists who were supporters of the Nazis, helping them set up Muslim SS divisions like the Hanzer division.
I don't think you're happy to debate people who use facts you don't like.
@skinnywhop87 I'm referring to myself actually, after you declared me a racist and a Nazi.
I've mentioned many factual things you simply choose to ignore because they don't fit your worldview. We're not going to get anywhere debating in this manner. Even if we still disagree with the big picture, denying provable facts won't allow us to understand each other will it?
Oh come on, the Muslims created one of the largest empires in history through blood shed largely over the 100 years after Mohammad's death. These extremist sects would have been right at home in those times, they are only harkening back to message in the Quran which inspired generations before. The hatred of the Jews is in no way a product of recent politics, the attitude was the same in the Islamic world with pogroms and humiliating laws for over a thousand years.
@Chinomareno Greeks and Romans also created one of the largest empires, does that mean you can never trust an italian or Greek? The christians have a blood history as well, so when you meet a Christian do you think they're all the same despite there's 33,000 different sects?
BTW you're totally stupid if you think Arabs hate Jews, especially when history shows the Jews sought REFUGE in Arab countries while CHRISTIANS were on the war path. Hence why Israel's largest ethnic group are the ARAB jews
@Chinomareno Also you should go to infoliveenglish (an Israeli news channel on youtube), and watch their newest videos. They have a story about Tunisia calling back all their Jews (who were never forced to leave I might add, they left because of job and housing that opened up after 1967)
So, why would an Arab country, that's preserved all it's historical Jewish sites, want it's Jews back for? Hmmm I thought these evil savages just inherently hated Jews? Oh yeah btw, I'm a jew and my gf is Arab
An Arab Muslim? Really, and her family has no problem with the idea that you would never convert? If so you are in a tiny minority and your anecdotal experiences don't count for that much.
You are far too emotional I never said anything about evil savages, The Dhimma and Islamic conquests are plain historical fact. You are telling me 100000 people fled just because of job insecurity... Tunisia is such a warm place for Jews their synagogues are Truck bombed.
@Chinomareno Nope they know I will never convert, and plus in Islamic culture I cannot deconvert from my Jewish ancestry. Her family are secularists muslims, yes there's plenty out there.
Did you follow the elections in Tunisia and Egypt? Yes Islamist parties won some seats (mainly because they were outlawed under the prior regimes, so they're a sort of trend).
However secularists in all these revolutions, are not a minority. This is the case for the WHOLE Arab world.
@skinnywhop87 But,the massacre were BEFORE Israel were created..Radical Islam is the SIDE EFFECT of Muhamad and his quran-if he calles for the death of the unbeliver,or to look for the Jews even under a rock..in the last 1400 yr Islam killed 250000000 ppl around the globe,long before Zionism..
when WESTREN COLONIALISTS created 22 Muslim counties,it was ok,once they created a Jewish state,its HARAM! and if we are dealing with borders,Jordan is part of my land too-according to the british mandat!
@ofirb10 If you can collectively blame all Arabs for what a very small minority than you cannot brush off Israeli terrorism, which is apart of their history. "Arabs" don't have a collective history. Tunisians, have a different culture from Moroccans, who again have a different culture and history than the Egyptians, who again have a much different culture and history than Saudi Arabia. So if you can collectively blame a group of 230 million people, than accept the wrongs Israel has committed
@skinnywhop87 Where did i blamed all Arab?! are you saying that all Arab are Muslim?! i blame Islam for creating Terror planet! You said Israel were the first to attack,the Irgun..ect.i gave you the Chronological event and now its "very small minority" action?! i didn't speak of collecivety culture-i speak of one thing that you all share-ISLAM! after all,it dosen't mater if you in Tunisia or Saudi-you all call ALLAH AKBAR before you blow up in a mall/beheading Kufar/honor killing..
@ofirb10 In just 10 years the CHRISTIAN regime of Hitler killed 6 million people, In America over the span of 500 years, 75% of the indigenous American population was killed by Europeans. From about 1930-1955 20 million Russians were killed under a secular government. In 1911 one million Armenian and Greek Christians were murdered by the SECULAR Ottoman government.
It's safe to say that just in the span of 500 years Europeans have killed more people than Muslim in 3 times the time span ;)
@rostkehlchen Hitler was most certainly a Christian, and so what his regime. The "Final solution" was the idea of rid of those who were not of the direct ancestry of Adam and Eve.
Perhaps you should learn history, it's not that big of a revelation that Hitler's regime was Christian. it's basic history
@ofirb10 How can also forget the Salem Witch trials, the Spanish Inquisition (which many jews wouldn't exist now if it wasn't for the muslims who protected them from that, including my own family), the African slave trade (ran and controlled by the Dutch), and finally the complete dark ages...
And btw, doesn't Israel try to model itself after European countries.. that's something for you to ponder
@77unclefedor For the gene issue, I bring it up because these people are arguing against the rights of the Palestinians. So if they want to prove to me that they have an ancestral link to the land there, and are inherently entitled to it. Then I want to know under what scientific grounds.
I as a Jew am actually intrigued to know what links them to me, and what Israel even defies being a jew as. I think it's a worthy topic to bring up
If you were not a liar and a racist, and had read the actual genetic studies, then there would be something to discuss. But you are just a person who likes to hate and to get attention. If you would take the time to actually read some history, rather than give your uneducated opinions in public, then there might be some
you dont look like a native american to me, what are you doing in north america?
the british occupied north america and allowed you to live there, the arabs occupied the middle east and moved there, and now the jews took their old homeland back.. with the support of the UN (which btw wasnt there when your country was created or when the muslims conquered the middle east).
the arabs have been occupying this land for over 1,000 years, but havent been in control for the last 500. history happens.
wildlettuce 1 month ago
@wildlettuce you are racist as hell
ninjascroll6789 1 month ago
@ninjascroll6789 my comment about native americans was cynical and the rest of my comment was simply stating historic facts.
racist? do you even understand english?
wildlettuce 1 month ago
so much nonsense in so little time.
wildlettuce 1 month ago
@Hereticalable dude who r u tryna fool? look back in ancient maps the nabateans lived in southern Palestine, u must be talking about the sabeans that lived in Yemen. Have it ever crossed ur mind that those were converts NOT real israelites cuz the Israelites would never marry outside race or blood, they're just khazars from central Asia
palestinekingmusic 2 months ago
Technically Arabs lived there for thousands of years not only 1800 yrs, there were ancient north Arabs called the Nabateans that spoke a proto Arabic language that derived from the south arab sabean language...
palestinekingmusic 2 months ago
@palestinekingmusic The Nabateans lived in what is now Yemen and Jordan. Nice try...the whole region was conquered by Arabs 1400 years ago - many places are not originally Arabic...like Canaan, Lebanon, Syria, Iraq etc..this is simply the Arab Muslims not wanting to admit that they do not have the right to control the ENTIRE middle east culturally, religiously and demographically. It's sad really - really sad.
Hereticalable 2 months ago
@Hereticalable Mexico was once Aztec land,conquered by Spaniards. Now Spanish culture dominates. Does that mean the people's DNA changed? Noooo, the Aztec, and Mayan DNA (meaning genetics) is still there. Hence why many Mexicans still identify as being ethnically Aztec
skinnywhop87 2 months ago
The fact is, JEWS living in Hevron back in the 1860's called themselves Palestinians. Until the mid-60's the term Palestinian always referred to the Jews of that region. Arabs loathed the term. So you might want to understand what you just proved!
mitukats 2 months ago
@mitukats Either way, you have Semetic people in the Middle East calling themselves a word derived from 'invader', so etymology can't be all that important.
JaredHutcheson1 2 months ago
@JaredHutcheson1 It seems etymology is only important when you want to label non-Arab semites as Arabs...when you want to base your identity on an invading people from the Aegean who were not Semites that's fine though.
Hereticalable 2 months ago
@mitukats It doesn't matter what any Jew or Arab called themselves. The simple fact is in the 1860s there were only 30,000 Jews living in the area and over 600,000 Arabs. Even until today it's an Arab majority region. SO, that doesn't give YOU or anyone the right to say they cannot live there, or that YOU or anyone else is more entitled to live there.
In the Hebrew torah, the christian bible and the Islamic Qur'an it says DO NOT STEAL.
I'm pretty sure that includes LAND
skinnywhop87 2 months ago
@skinnywhop87
He didn't even infer that, you are attacking something he hasn't even advocated.
Also if I'm getting this right because the region is an Arab majority they have the right to live "there", where's there? The entirety of Israel?
Chinomareno 2 months ago
@Chinomareno Let's say someone made the argument's of holocaust deniers, then they put a disclaimer "I'm not a holocaust denier", how are you going to think of them? He most certainly "inferred" the Palestinians are an invented people, using the exact same argument's people like Newt Gingrich and far right-wing Israeli zealots who want to try and disassociate the Palestinians with the land and their history.
What I'm saying is where does "He" or anyone get their right from, especially when
skinnywhop87 2 months ago
@skinnywhop87
Now you are just getting ridiculous, the assertion that Palestinian nationalism is a relatively recent construct is not on the same level as denying a well documented mass extermination, nor is it a unique observation to the Pro-Israeli. National identity is an elusive quality to define, Arabs of Palestine or Arabs? Pan-Arabists have confused the issue so naturally one has to wonder what really holds the people together apart from opposition to the Israelis.
Chinomareno 2 months ago
@Chinomareno You're mixing apples and oranges. I'm not comparing it with Palestinian nationalism, I'm comparing it with the denial of Palestinian history.
Watch Joniversity's video so you can see the argument in context. It doesn't matter if you call Palestinian Arabs, "Monkey men from Mars", that's not the point. The point is, no matter WHAT they are called it's unarguable that they have history and ancestral links to the land. Much more so than the Israelis living in the area now
skinnywhop87 2 months ago
@skinnywhop87
Joniversity never argued against the idea that the Palestinians didn't have a connection to land or a right to a state, just that the Palestinians are not as an ancient a people as Cenk claimed or particularly unique amongst the Arabs other than regional dialectal differences. At most he argued it was a silly choice to latch on to the foreign name derived from the opposition's language of an area to name your national movement after.
Chinomareno 2 months ago
@Chinomareno speaking of reading comprehension you should go back to my first comment to you. Palestinians are an ancient people, whether the name they applied to themselves or not is ancient. It is a fact, that while Arab culture would eventually conquer the land of Palestine, much of the ancestry is the same.
Similar to how Christianity now dominates Native American culture, yet the ancient ethnicity is passed on despite the cultural shift...
Durrr
skinnywhop87 2 months ago
@skinnywhop87
You mean the one where you basically claimed I said all Arabs are blood thirsty savages? Or the other garbage about Arabs countries being mostly secular?
Why are you babbling this at me? I fail to see how saying the idea of Palestinians being relatively recent somehow means a denial of ancestry. Grow up a bit, don't jump down other peoples throats because they disagree with your narrative. Oh another thing, you are a racist prick toward the end of this video.
Chinomareno 2 months ago
@Chinomareno I wasn't referring to you denying their history, if you follow the comments you would know I was referring to Joniversity's approach and arguments, and apologists for those kind of arguments.
Onto your points, to say the Palestinians are unorganized or violent is a complete bastardization of MODERN Palestinian history. Must I remind you guys of Camp David, Oslo, the continued settlements, the war on gaza, all the way through the UN announcement in September of this year
skinnywhop87 2 months ago
@skinnywhop87
You don't address Jonverstiy and you are basically doing the same to me, you get angry and rattle off your list of talking points without comprehending what the other party actually said; the evidence being this video.
You may also want to be careful claiming people have genetic rights over land, citizenship and statehood are not dependent on this nor should it be. It's also false to claim Ashkenazi Jews are descended from Khazars, it's not backed by the facts.
Chinomareno 2 months ago
@Chinomareno I addressed your points accurately. Assuming genetic or ancestral linkage against the Palestinians, and using name games, to say "these are not the same people", is completely retarded. I shouldn't have to explain the obvious, which I've done numerous times, not only on my channel, not only on this video, not in these comment sections.
Your point was the palis are disorganized, so you can't support them. Yet you negate nearly 60 years of Palestinian history to say such things
skinnywhop87 1 month ago
@skinnywhop87
In the YT video Cenk claimed the Palestinians are descendants of the Philistines... do you agree with him or something? Are they the same people as they were before the Arab conquest? After the Turkish era? pls forget race...
Your argument doesn't even follow anyway, I gave my opinion that due to the recent infighting and the fact PLO is a collection of groups with wider ambitions that their state may not even be stable. That doesn't mean I don't support a state...
Chinomareno 1 month ago
Philistianians = Roman dominated area in Jerusalem...
Why you act like jews never lived in Middle east?
That muslims were the first... no, actually Middle-east is OCCUPIED Christian/Jewish lands... occupied from the muslims.
Some day (not now), we will liberate our lands in middle east.
6GreatDaneLover6 1 month ago
@Chinomareno Askenasi Jews (generally) have blue eyes, light skin, STRAIGHT and THIN hair ( important in traditional semitic features), and they're traditionally half breeds, or converts from eastern Europe. They share almost NO genetic lineage with sefardis and mizrahis, or even PALESTINIANS, who are the actual ancestral lineage through the human history of the land.
Modern zionism, is from the eugenics ideas of 18th century, propagated by GENOCIDE supporters like Theodore Herzl.
skinnywhop87 1 month ago
@skinnywhop87
Nice and irrelevant. You claimed Ashkenazi Jews are Khazars, please be less wrong in the future.
Chinomareno 1 month ago
@Chinomareno I don't have to explain this to Joniversity, because he's aware of this history. but the fact I have to even waste 1000 characters highlighting it for you shows your ignorance. You have google, amazon and a bank account.
Buy some fucking books, read up online, and quit sounding like an ignorant mouthpiece for eugenics and racist nationalism (almost the same ideology as NAZIS), supporters.
Thanx and may you have a happy new year
;)
skinnywhop87 1 month ago
@skinnywhop87
You spending 1000 words replying only illustrated just how angry you are as a person, how prone you are to committing fallacies and how obsessed with race you are.
Chinomareno 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@skinnywhop87
You don't address Jonverstiy and you are basically doing the same to me, you get angry and rattle off your list of talking points without comprehending what the other party actually said; the evidence being this video.
You may also want to be careful claiming people have genetic rights over land, citizenship and statehood are not dependent on this nor should it be. It's also false to claim Ashkenazi Jews are descended from Khazars, it's not backed by the facts.
Chinomareno 2 months ago
@Chinomareno ... if you don't like getting jumped on for saying stupid and uneducated things, bastardizing the struggles or the organization skills of a displaced people who are taking the same approach as the early modern zionism movement, then you either have a biased or ignorant view of history and facts.
Expect it when you say ignorant things without basic understanding of modern geopolitics and history of the region
skinnywhop87 2 months ago
@skinnywhop87
Get over yourself please, I didn't claim anything shocking. I'm not the one that looks at someone's skin color then tells them they have more relation to Queen Elizabeth.
When did I bastardize anyone's struggle? Hamas' conflict with Fatah is old news. Between the Gaza Strip and West Bank there is political division and violent factions although the PLO may have calmed that down for now it's no guarantee they will cooperate in the future.
Chinomareno 2 months ago
@Chinomareno That's why I said if someone is going to make holocaust denial arguments, then claim to not be a holocaust denier it makes it an oxymoron. Same with someone trying to say these ancient cultures with similar names has no relation to the Palestinians, when clearly it does if you apply just the slightest bit of effort and critical thinking skills
skinnywhop87 2 months ago
@skinnywhop87
At the end of the day it only a comment on a label, nothing else. Whether or not the Palestinians get a non contiguous state seems unimportant to me at this point, more importantly they seem to have very little identification to each other with their competing Authorities. The national myths can be fabricated later, at this point nothing has really stuck out to me to say this generation of refugees can even keep a country together even if they gain one.
Chinomareno 2 months ago
@Chinomareno Well it doesn't matter how you personally feel about it. The reality of the issue is there are a large number of displaced people. If Israel is forced to accept them under an Israeli state, then Israel loses it's Jewish identity. If the suffering of these displaced people continues, the only two possibilities are full on ethnic cleansing, or even genocide for Israel to preserve its Jewish identity. Either choice, would damage and eventually destroy Israel in the long run
skinnywhop87 2 months ago
@skinnywhop87
It's a rather arrogant position to assume such a slippery slope scenario is the only outcome in the first place. Secondly, why should Israel accept millions of immigrants and sabotage it's own project? Would you accept the same happening to the Palestinians to satisfy some fanciful principles? I only accept practical ideas, Palestine can exist but don't expect the right of return for 7 million descendants from 1948.
Chinomareno 2 months ago
@Chinomareno So maybe you don't care about the Palestinians, but maybe you'll care how this will destroy Israel and eventually plague the US as well for supporting Israel when the shit really hits the fan.
BTW, if you claim to be disgusted with the holocaust, you have no excuse to shrug your shoulders at the plight of the Palestinians, despite what you think of their culture or lackof... On a human level, no honest person with a heart could support the injustices plagued on them from Israel
skinnywhop87 2 months ago
@skinnywhop87
Sigh... Please at least try to have some form. If your reading comprehension is that poor I'd be surprised so I'll give you the dignity of assuming you're being knowingly dishonest. If your are satisfied with a group of divided people split between violent factions being granted non-contiguous land to govern then so be it but please don't claim a position for me.
Chinomareno 2 months ago
@Chinomareno .... "He" identifies himself as an atheist. I personally think anyone has the right to live anywhere they want. But not at the expense of another people. And if someone doesn't believe in the ideology of oppressing the Palestinians they shouldn't shame themselves by using the arguments of those who do want to oppress them
skinnywhop87 2 months ago
@skinnywhop87 The Arab controlled lands are around 700 times that of the Jews. On the subject of not stealing are you suggesting that the entire middle east has always been Arabic and that everyone else there like the Jews, Kurds etc are simply after Arab land despite being older peoples with a longer history in the region?
I agree not stealing is good - and I agree getting back what is yours is also good, depending on how it is done.
Hereticalable 2 months ago
@Hereticalable Arabs didn't steal any land from Jews, in fact if you know history you would know that when the Arabs were run out of Europe by the Catholics, the Jews went with the Arabs. The shepardis, Mizrahis, ect moved out of Spain, Italy, Portugal, France, ect to escape western forces, to live FREELY among Arabs. Even in places like Tunisia, to this very day the Jewish populations aren't only welcomed they're well respected
skinnywhop87 2 months ago
moron....
jonahfox 2 months ago
@jonahfox lol how did I know you would view this video? Oh yeah... Because you view every video on the subject. Do you work for the ADL, or are you just a ideological troll?
skinnywhop87 2 months ago
@skinnywhop87 Yeah, I work for the ADL.
jonahfox 2 months ago
Also, "Arabs being ethnically cleansed" is bullshit. There were Arabs in the Knesset during the FOUNDING of Israel! Stop with your propaganda bullshit!
ThinkToFreedom 2 months ago
@ThinkToFreedom Kenesset membership of Arabs only represents 20% of the ISRAELI-arab population. It has NOTHING to do with arabs in the OCCUPIED territories.
Also which ethnic cleansing of Jews are you talking about the in the Arab world? Because PALESTINIANS have nothing to do with Jews being ousted out of Iraq or anywhere else.
You trying to collectively blame ALL Arabs, would be like ALL Jews blaming the ENTIRE western world for the holocaust, despite only a MINORITY are responsible for it
skinnywhop87 2 months ago
@skinnywhop87 Excuse me? I am not blaming all Arabs. I am blaming the Arab governments and organizations. The very organizations that ethnically cleansed Jews and continue to threaten the existence of the Jewish people in the middle east include the Palestinian organizations. What happened to the Jews living in Judea? What happened to the Jews living in Gush Katif? I'll tell you what happened, they were kicked to the border by the Palestinian organizations.
ThinkToFreedom 2 months ago
@skinnywhop87 Also, before the Palestinian movement was created, there was the idea of "Pan Arabism" meaning Arab unity. Look it up.
ThinkToFreedom 2 months ago
@ThinkToFreedom There are still Arabs in the Knesset. Israel's Arab citizens have more freedom and rights than most Arabs in surrounding countries.
Hereticalable 2 months ago
How do you explain the ethnic cleansing of Jews by Arab nations huh? How do you explain that Yasser Arafat, the leader of the Palestinian movement, was born in Egypt huh? Huh???
ThinkToFreedom 2 months ago
@ThinkToFreedom How would you like it if all the Japanese blamed all Jews for the atomic bomb drop on Hiroshima, just because Einstein (a Jew) came up with the theory of relativity? That's pretty much what you're doing
skinnywhop87 2 months ago
@skinnywhop87 You falsely blamed Israel for ethnically cleansing an Arab population. You used this argument to say why can't the Arabs live in their land (within the borders of Israel)? The answer is some of them do. But now I'm asking, what about the Jews who were ethnically cleansed from what is now Palestinian territory (no Jews living there!)? And most of the other territories? Don't they too have a right to live in those lands?
ThinkToFreedom 2 months ago
@ThinkToFreedom Oh and by Palestinian territory, I mean the territories which are called "Gaza" and the "West Bank" today, which are under PLO and Hamas rule (also did you know that the West Bank's name was created by Jordan in 1948?).
ThinkToFreedom 2 months ago
@rostkehlchen Yes, yes, yes.
skinnywhop87 2 months ago
The reason the Kurds aren't as followed is because the Kurds don't have a giant oil backed, UN backed propaganda media apparatus dedicated to their suffering demonizing Arabs and Iranians every chance they get. Also the Arabs nor the Iranians care even remotely about the Kurds because they are hypocrites.They complain about Israel and human rights while denying the Kurds their basic human rights. That is why no one cares about the Kurds.How about the Arabs show a little integrity and mention it?
chuck3668831 2 months ago 2
From the poster: "The fact is Arabs (whatever cultural identity you want to apply to them) Lived there for 1800 years." - and the Jews have a documented presence going back 3100 years (as per non-biblical sources like Egyptian records of the time).
It seems having 700 times more land than the Jews isn't enough for the Arabs...and that's after 900,000 Jews had to leave their homes around the "Arab World"in 1948.
Hereticalable 2 months ago
@Hereticalable Not just "had to leave" - they were expelled, exiled, they were bitten, their possessions were confiscated. This skinnywhop doesn't give a shit about it.
77unclefedor 2 months ago
@77unclefedor Of course...it only matters when the Arab (and mostly Muslim) majority who've annexed and ran most of the region for the last 1400 years have something bad happen to them. Don't mention the two state solution was supposed to be Israel and Jordan whatever you do...
Hereticalable 2 months ago
@Hereticalable Can you define what's an "Arab"? If you think an Egyptian, and Lebanese, or Moroccon and Jordanian are the same. They each have completely different cultures.
It doesn't matter if Arabs have 100 countries, it's not acceptable to steal from ANYONE. And until Israel can define what a jew is clearly, u can't complain about a Jewish state. Especially because the largest group in Israel are the Mizrahis who are ARAB Jews. So even with Israel as a Jewish state its still ethnically arab
skinnywhop87 2 months ago
@skinnywhop87 Israel has clearly defined who is a Jew for a long time. And it's ethnically Semitic not Arabic...saying the Mizrahis are Arabs is like saying the Scottish are English not European.
Hereticalable 2 months ago
@Hereticalable lol it's ethnically semitic? How about converts who have NO semitic blood, and ones who can't even speak a word of Hebrew.
BTW Netanayahu isn't even ethnically semitic, he's anglo
skinnywhop87 2 months ago
@skinnywhop87 Ethnic is not always the same thing as race. An ethnic group can be multi-racial. If we want to start on the "purity" thing let's have a look at all the mixed Arabs out there, including the King of Jordan...does it really matter if someone is mixed or has been adopted into the ethnic group?
Hereticalable 2 months ago
@Hereticalable lol semitic doesn't refer to "race" (whatever vague definition you want to try to apply to that). Semitism is a variety of cultural and linguistic heritage evolved out of ancient Babylonian and even Mesopotamian cultures. It's a central Asiatic cultural identity. It has almost nothing to do with race. It's strictly about culture and linguistics and has very little to do with race
The only thing that makes ANY jew semitic is the Hebrew language and culture
;)
skinnywhop87 2 months ago
@skinnywhop87 So all those similar looking Mizrahim, Arabs, Kurds, Assyrians etc are only related by language and nothing else?
I won't bother referring you to the numerous DNA studies, the similar looks, the long histories, the cultures etc...you are obviously not someone able to think rationally.
Hereticalable 2 months ago
@Hereticalable Mizrahis are Arabs. and arab are semitic people, so are Turks, Iranians, Greeks, and Armenians. So maybe you should learn what a semite is ;)
skinnywhop87 2 months ago
@skinnywhop87 Greeks and Turks? With all due respect you should read and learn yourself: look up Semitic on Wikipedia for starters.
By all means write your own referenced article if you dispute this...you'll be up against some very good ethnologists and linguists though.
Hereticalable 2 months ago
@Hereticalable lol you should actually ask a Greek and Turk yourself, not only that study the origins of their cultures and LANGUAGES.
Hebrew the first letter is Aleph, in Greek it's Alpha.. Hebrew the second letter is Bet, in Greek its Beta... Heb has Dalet, greek it's Delta.. And so on.
Durrrrr. lol I dunno how foolish you want to keep making yourself look. but bring it on ;)
skinnywhop87 2 months ago
@skinnywhop87 The Turks origins are in Central Asia. Linguistically they are kin to the Mongols, the Kazaks, the Krygyz and the Uzebeks. No Turk will say they are semiites, and NO Greek will ever say they are Semites because they are not. ALL alphabets follow a similar sound order - by your reasoning English, Mandarin, German and Swahili are semitic because they follow the same sound order when writing their alphabet. Millions of linguists would disagree with you.
Hereticalable 2 months ago
@Hereticalable They actually are, even culturally speaking, but genetically as well. Semetism evolved out of central Asia. The Babylonian and Mesopotamian cultures are the first semitic based languages. Greek language and people share many of the same traits and genetic markers as Mediterranean Jews. (IE olive tinted skin, thick curly hair, hooked nose, and dignified eyebrow and forehead ridge)
skinnywhop87 2 months ago
@skinnywhop87 So complete is the 1400 year occupation of the entire middle east by Arabs than everyone living there seems to be now an Arab. Tell me, are the Kurds also Arabs because they live in the Arab dominated middle east too? The Mizrahis have an older history than the Arabs, they are Jews who lived in countries conquered by Arabs. And around 50% of Israelis are Mizrahi today...many look exactly like the other semites of the region, including the Arabs.
Hereticalable 2 months ago
@Hereticalable Yes, many Kurds do describe themselves Arabs, because it's a cultural identity. Arab lineage ethnically only exists in the gulf states, where even there many share Bedouin, African, and Central Asian ancestry.
If you go down all the different "Arab" countries, the only unifying feature is Arabic language. Not Islamic religion, and not ancestry. In places like Libya, Tunisia, and Algeria the people will call themselves Arabs, but they're ethnic Berbers
skinnywhop87 2 months ago
@Hereticalable In places like Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, they're mixes of Coptics, Greek Orthodox, Sunni, Shia, Assyrians.. But they all classify themselves as Arabs. Even in Iraq, where the majority of people have persian Ancestry (similar to Iran where it's not classifed as an Arab country), the Iraqis still classify themselves as Arabs.
Even in Mizrahi Jewish cultures, they didn't maintain Aramaic, Hebrew or Yiddish culture.. They spoke ARABIC and we classified as Arab Jews, even till this day
skinnywhop87 2 months ago
It seems to me that you missed the point of the video you are responding to.
As I see it, the original video points out mistakes and inaccuracies regarding claims of a ancient Palestinian people, presenting the actual facts on the matter. He adds a disclaimer saying that this has no impact on their right for self-definition, and I agree. Nowhere in the video does he claim this gives Jews a special right to live in the area.
Your response hinges on that unsaid implication, so misses the mark.
Polymeron 2 months ago
@Polymeron no i didn't miss the point, I used the same logic against Israel. Can define what unites Diana Boston, the secularist Jews in Israel, the Mizrahis, The Ashkenasis, the sefardis and so on. If someone is going to question Palestinian history, they should clearly define theirs first
skinnywhop87 2 months ago
@skinnywhop87 How is this even remotely "the same logic"?
Joniversity was debunking a bunch of wrong/irrelevant claims, backing it by facts. Which claims in the quoted video were you debunking, using what evidence?
You say you were doing the same thing "against Israel", yet Joniversity did not direct his comments "against Palestine" nor denied the right of self-definition. So again, looks like apples and oranges.
I call Ignoratio Elenchi on the whole thing.
Polymeron 2 months ago
@skinnywhop87 The whole point was this is NOT Palestinian history... And I know enough Palestinians who will tell you the same, and will take offense at the suggestion otherwise raised by TYT.
Polymeron 2 months ago
@Polymeron You've got it mostly correct, however he was making the arguments about lack of a mapped place called Palestine during PART of the Ottoman (which isn't totally true, as I told him in these comments Herzl was a representative to PALESTINE for the Sultan of the Ottoman and spoke in his own journal referring to the Palestinians Arabs as "Palestinian Arabs". he made the false claim saying only jews referred to themselves as such.
skinnywhop87 2 months ago
@skinnywhop87 That one's actually a fair point :)
I'll admit to not knowing the particular details on this. However, TYT's original claim that the Palestinian people is thousands of years old based on the Roman use of the word still falls flat.
Polymeron 2 months ago
@Polymeron I don't think so, because the genetic link to the land is still there. For example, before there was ever a Mexico, there were Aztec and Mayan people living there and these were the empires of the time. Now, most Mexicans are linked to one or the other, and many still consider themselves Aztec-Mexicans.
This is the same for Palestine. The people living there, whether they're called "Arab" or "Palestinian", it doesn't matter because their ancestry is there in that land
skinnywhop87 2 months ago
@skinnywhop87 I don't think his claims against the name are valid to say it's not their culture****
skinnywhop87 2 months ago
@Polymeron He was making the same arguments I've heard from so many Israeli right-wingers saying, "The Palestinians are an invented people, they only called themselves the Palestinians for political reasons starting in the 20's" or 50s (depending on who you ask).
To me that's the same as someone making arguments for holocaust denial, then at the end trying to say they're not a holocaust denier
skinnywhop87 2 months ago
@skinnywhop87 Gingrich made claims similar to the Israeli right wing, yes. And it was dumb of him to do so, since the Palestinians' length of history is irrelevant to their present-day self definition.
However, Joniversity did not. He was merely debunking a really dumb response to Gingrich's hiccup, all the while disclaiming that he was not otherwise supporting him.
Seems more like a knee-jerk reaction rather than focusing on the actual content of the video you were criticizing.
Polymeron 2 months ago
@skinnywhop87 Saying they are an invented people doesn't automatically mean you want to deny them a place to live or start killing them off does it? It's just a statement of fact - they are an invented weapon in a proxy war against the only non-Arab majority state in the middle east. Peace still needs to found, land disputes still need to be settled and people still need to have a future regardless.
Hereticalable 2 months ago
@DM5ive9
At least some of the posters here are familiar with history.
72Yonatan 2 months ago
@DrHeinersSanatorium
Turks committed a genocidal attack on Armenians and rid their country of Kurdish people and Greeks as well. They are extremely racist. Your viewpoint is not based upon history or facts at all.
72Yonatan 2 months ago
@72Yonatan Theodore Herzl (one of your founding fathers) ran a propagandist journal for the Sultan of the Ottoman during the first string of massacres towards the Armenians :)
Israelis are extremely racist, everytime you steal a new piece of land you are continuing the death rate of the holocaust.
How many Palestinians need to die for a holocaust they had no role in? How would Israel like it if Native Americans stole their land in response to how the US government treated them?
skinnywhop87 2 months ago
You are extremely uneducated-Arabs generally did not live in the ancient kingdoms of Judea and Israel. Ashkenazi Jews migrated from the ancient land of Judea and Israel to Europe even before your ancestors could read or write. Arabs are the aggressors toward Jews, and not vice versa. Jon is not any relation to the Queen, who is of German descent, and yes, Abraham's descendants were white semitic people. It is the "Pilishtim" who were Mycenean Greek invadors from "Caphtor" according to the bible.
72Yonatan 2 months ago
@72Yonatan I never said Arabs lived in ANCIENT Israel, so listen first. From the time the Romans took over until 1948 there was NO Israel, in that time there were Arab inhabitants.
Ashkenasi jews were never in Israel until after 1931 so get your facts straight.
Abraham or his ancestry were not white. Abraham from the city of Ur in Iraq same with his sons, Moses was from Egypt. There is no white ancestry in that line, it's central asian.
skinnywhop87 2 months ago
@skinnywhop87
There were not Arabs living here until after the Islamic conquest of the 7th century. You obviously do not bother to read or study history at all, but talk from television and media impressions. Get some solid academic sources and you will find some light at the end of your tunnel. And Arabs ARE white people, so your concepts about race are deficient. Asia is filled with many white peoples as well as asiatics who are not "white."
72Yonatan 2 months ago
@skinnywhop87 In that time there were also Byzantines, Jews, Arabs, Crusaders, and Turks in that order...it's never been occupied only by Arabs - and the Arabs were only in control of the area for a few centuries. If anything the Ottomans ran for longest.
Abraham probably didn't exist but he would have been a semite not central asian (which is inhabited by Turkic peoples). Either way not European, even if he was pale skinned.
Hereticalable 2 months ago
@72Yonatan The bible is bullshit so citing that means nothing to me. The genetics tell a much different tale
skinnywhop87 2 months ago
@skinnywhop87
You have not read the genetic studies which came out of Israel, so this show that you have an anti-Israel and anti-Jewish slant. What does that make you? Hope a light went on.
72Yonatan 2 months ago
@72Yonatan lol anti-Jewish? maybe that will stick with someone else. Genetic studies show that even people from isolated Inuit villages share almost the same genetics as people in Africa. So you have to be specific
Tell me what gene unites all Jews. Tell me the exact gene that is found in and ONLY in all Jewish groups. If you can't you're just spotting zionist pseudoscience
skinnywhop87 2 months ago
@72Yonatan do you have any links or names of these studies, I know a couple of scientists that can review them with me.
IndifferentSky 2 months ago
@72Yonatan The bible does not state what color people are, unless they refer to darker skin on occasion. Or let me know what you're referring to, I'll check it out.
IndifferentSky 2 months ago
K) Ethically cleansed? watch this: /watch?v=nakuOWRDVlI L) So are Jews are suppose to look a certain way to be Jews? Is it just my color (which is shared by many indigenous Lebanese and Syrians as BTW many of our genetic markers) or maybe it's my nose? M) The Kazars? you gotta be kidding... You've been listening to David Duke too much... /watch?v=IRtc0XaA5k0 N) King David - i already responded to that B.S. on my video. O) Question your views which are based on Radical Muslim and Racist rhetoric.
Joniversity 2 months ago 7
@Joniversity K)No, Jews don't have to look anyway to be Jews. But they have to look a certain way to prove they have relevant ancestry to the land for their to be an argument that it's their ancestral homeland. BTW many Lebanese and Syrian's European features come from French and English colonization of the Land during the early 20th century. Same reason many Tunisians also have blue eyes and light skin, they're still culturally Arabic
skinnywhop87 2 months ago
@skinnywhop87
Israeli Jews do have common features, although we have small populations of Jews from Africa and Asia that maintain certain features of their most recent locale. You again prove your ignorance here. And why are you silent about the real people called Kurds and their lack of political expression in a modern state? Arabs have 22 states, so they are not lacking any political opportunity. The Pals are just a political tool to destroy Israel. Do you get an adrenaline rush hating Jews?
72Yonatan 2 months ago
@72Yonatan Again I asked for a gene, you made a claim and now you're resorting to similarities. BTW Moroccan Sefadi's look more like Moroccan Arabs than Askenasi or Mizrahis or even Yeminites. Palestine isn't a political tool to destroy Israe, it's a tool give the JUST rights of the Arab inhabitants to their HOMELAND. That they lived in for generations.
lol Oh yeah, uf mipo idyot on your stupid Jew hate shit, you're talking to a Jew. Just not a nazi like you (oops i mean zionist)
skinnywhop87 2 months ago
@skinnywhop87 "Palestine isn't a political tool to destroy Israe, it's a tool give the JUST rights of the Arab inhabitants to their HOMELAND" - so what's the problem, let them live along Israel... wait... do they want to ? And your "gene therapy" is annoying, as well as your obsession to call every pro-Israeli a racist. "That they lived in for generations", as well as Jews, but somehow there is too much denial of this fact.
77unclefedor 2 months ago
@77unclefedor When Israelis are making arguments in favor of ethnic cleaning policies I have good reason to call them racists.
In 1993 The PLO recognized the existence of Israel, in 2002 the Saudis created a peace deal on the condition that Israel withdrew from the occupied territory which would've given it full recognition of ALL 22 Arab states and even Iran. in 2006 Hamas recognized it's existence. Yesterday Hamas pledged to give up terrorism
There's your answer
skinnywhop87 2 months ago
@skinnywhop87 You seem to be a smart person, but you've taken for granted 1993 PLO recognition (Arafat made a scene before Clinton & the next day announced that thousands of shahids are marching to Jerusalem). PLO always addressed arabs with one message and USA/naive & biased media with another. Iran ? Recognition of Israel? Cooperation with suni Saudis ? ;) Hamas pledged to give up terrorism ? By presenting statistics of killed / injured Jews during past decades. Naive...
77unclefedor 2 months ago
@77unclefedor I think the PLO has been more than peaceful towards Israel. You should read "The Palestine Papers" from Wikileaks in 2009. It shows the PLO begging the Israelis for any deal, and still getting spit in the face. They were even willing to give up all but one neighborhood in Jerusalem.
As for Hamas, I don't agree with the rocket attacks because they are indiscriminate, but if their operations are directed at the IDF as a defensive measure I think that's more than fair and legal
skinnywhop87 2 months ago
@skinnywhop87 1/2
PLO strategy remains the same since it's foundation, the tactics are different and deceptive. Arafat didn't accept what Barak gave him in Camp David's talks and waged clashes, he died with the same "jihadic" rhetoric on his lips, Abbas didn't accept even more from Olmert, these leaders simply don't want Israel to exist. So who is getting spit in the face? Hamas is a terrorist organization, differentiating between it's targets is a dangerous idea.
77unclefedor 2 months ago
@77unclefedor Israel didn't honor Camp david. In case you're unaware it was Israel that started expanding it's settlements in Gaza, Jerusalem, and the West Bank, then shortly after when Rabine was assassinated (by a right-wing Israeli nut I might add), that's when Israel started shitting on the accords and completely broke the agreements. Which eventually lead to the second intifada.
skinnywhop87 2 months ago
@77unclefedor A lot of the propaganda about Iran is nonsense. Iran and Israel had good diplomatic relations until the late 1990's. It's possible for them to be obtained again. Also based on statistics, more Palestinians children have been harmed in just on invasion, than all Israelis killed by rockets and suicide attacks in the past 20 years
skinnywhop87 2 months ago
@skinnywhop87 in just ONE invasion***
skinnywhop87 2 months ago
@skinnywhop87 2/2 If Hamas' operations are directed at the IDF, there is always "collateral" damage, on both sides, that's why any differentiation strengths terror.
Palestinians children have been harmed because of Hamas (as a human shield). Israel doesn't target Palestinian children, Hamas does it deliberately to Palestinian & Israeli children. Israel-Iran relation will be obtained when Khomeini, his gang & Ahmedinijad are dead and Iran is a democracy...
77unclefedor 2 months ago
@77unclefedor Palestinians don't have automatic rifles, white phosphorous, tank shells and bulldozers
These are what killed most of them. Fired by ISRAELIS, not Hamas. What you're saying is equal to a rapist telling a rape victim it's their fault they got raped. Inconsiderate genocide supporting sick person. You need your head examined
skinnywhop87 2 months ago
@skinnywhop87 Sorry I called you smart person (my mistake), you are an idiot. You demand the proof of a "Jewish gene" presence, otherwise Jews have no historic right over the land ? Smells really bad, stinks like pure racism. How convenient to stick to some catchy gene theory.Who exactly delegated you the right to argue in favor of Khazars, or Moroccan Jews being closer to Arabs then to Ashkenazi Jews? Are you some kind of professor for "Applied genetics" ? Self-proclaimed Mendel ?
77unclefedor 2 months ago
@skinnywhop87 Your vision is a mixture of pseudo-liberalism, hatred , terror-rationalization & excuse for terrorism, false tolerance, ideological self-mutilation, revisionism of History, populism ,demagoguery. People like you don't want any peace, all you want is a pathetic provocation. A peace between Israel & Palestine will be achieved by self-honesty, realism, human rights and lives protection, self-defense when needed.
77unclefedor 2 months ago
@77unclefedor what hatred? I don't hate anything accept hypocrisy, if you don't evidence to back up all your adjectives then don't say them, it's an insult to both yours and my intelligence.
Don't tell me or anyone that the Palestinians have to sit back and just accept what crimes Israel has committed. Don't rationalize the stealing of land by calling your opposition racist for pointing it out. I don't wish death or diaspora on anyone. Which is more than i can say about YOU
skinnywhop87 2 months ago
@skinnywhop87 A peace will be achieved when a true Palestinian leader emerges,the one with genuine desire for peace, the one who'll convince his people to change their state of mind (through school books, anti-terrorism agenda, civil rights, economic cooperation & painful decisions regarding territorial swaps, borders, refugees issue etc.). Hateful vessels like you only prolong the current state of Palestinian suicidally & world's enmity towards Israel. Examine your own head.
77unclefedor 2 months ago
@77unclefedor "The arabs have 22 other countries why don't they just move", screw that shit. If you're anti-terrorism than where's your condemnation of the king david hotel massacre, where's your condemnation of Deir Yassin? Where's your condemnation of the levon affair? Where's you condemnation of Israel's LIES during 1967? Where's your condemnation of Israel bombing civilians in Beirut? You don't care about terrorism, you're just a hypocrite
skinnywhop87 2 months ago
@skinnywhop87 "The arabs have 22 other countries why don't they just move" ? Did I said that ? WTF are YOU talking about, filthy hypocrite like yourself ? "Israeli" massacres & "Israeli" lies & "Israeli war crimes" in every one of your hateful sentences... Your perception of reality is a sick rationalization of evil, you've lost any ties with history, you're spitting hatred, go on and really check your head.
77unclefedor 2 months ago
@77unclefedor It's the rationalization you guys use. Check the comments on here. You are the one rationalizing evil. You're supporting a nation who's centered around it's military, like the nazis... You're rationalizing a nation that annexes land from it's neighbors, like the Nazis. You're rationalizing wars of aggression for with the excuse of "national security" when really it's an excuse to STEAL more land and resources. You're rationalizing a nation that is ethnically and religiously based
skinnywhop87 2 months ago
@77unclefedor ... like the nazis...You're supporting a nation that has systematically forced a semitic people into a open air prison (like the nazis)... I might also add that most of Gaza's residents are NOT from Gaza, they're refugees from Eretz Israel. So there's your evidence you're no better than a nazi. Where's your evidence against me? i've asked you for it for nearly 24 hours and you've still provided nothing but your OPINION
skinnywhop87 2 months ago
@skinnywhop87 BTW, Barak attended 2000 Camp David Summit (after Rabin's assassination), Israel's unilateral disengagement with Gaza happened in 2005, chronologically challenged idiot. Palestinians pissed on every agreement because of their strategy, as I've mentioned earlier. About OPINIONS: you have bullshit for evidence. It's all about opinions, you gave your explanation, your meaning, your interpretation (or should I say MISINTERPRETATION) of facts. I'm done, screw yourself.
77unclefedor 2 months ago
@77unclefedor Barak came into office on the premise of NOT accepting camp David. lol Oh yeah, wasn't Barak that instituted the separation wall in 2002 which was condemned even by the US for being the BIGGEST road block to peace
ROTFLMAO
skinnywhop87 2 months ago
@skinnywhop87 wasn't IT Barak, that instituted**
skinnywhop87 2 months ago
@77unclefedor btw you might want to check the "Warning sign list of a fascistic nation"
Israel fits every single criteria aside from rampant sexism. The PLO is classified as more secular than even Israel as whole ;)
skinnywhop87 2 months ago
@skinnywhop87 On 9/13/1993, the same day that Arafat signed the Declaration of Principles of the Oslo Accords on the White House lawn, Arafat appeared in a taped interview on Jordan TV: "Since we cannot defeat Israel in war, we do it in stages. We take any and every territory that we can of Palestine, and establish a sovereignty there, and we use it as a springboard to take more. When the time comes, we can get the Arab nations to join us for the final blow against Israel."
Peace loving..
ofirb10 2 months ago
Comment removed
ofirb10 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@skinnywhop87 3/31/77, interview with the Dutch newspaper,Amsterdam-based newspaper "Dagblad de Verdieping Trouw", March 31, 1977, PLO executive committee member Zahir Muhsein said: "The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people. cont..
ofirb10 2 months ago
@skinnywhop87 Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa, while as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem. - (So the concepts 'Palestine' and 'Palestinian nation' are just a set of ruses that the terrorists have foisted upon the world in order to forward their terrorist aims).
ofirb10 2 months ago
@ofirb10 Actually it's not a strategy it's what's fair. Especially when compared with the Jewish diaspora excuses used to create Israel
;)
skinnywhop87 2 months ago
@skinnywhop87 Whats fair?! for a Muslim,the planet earth is not enough..Dar el harab..i just wonder,where were the "Palastinian" "freedom" "movement" before 67?! or before 48?! or ever before?! when Jordan and Egypt were occupying the land,the "Palastinian" were Jordanian or Egyptian..Jews are the reason..once the Jews stop from being Dimmis,the Arab go wild..Don't forget that the same Nation who created Israel are the same who created 22 Muslim land..not enough,right? Palasine-Taqya works..
ofirb10 2 months ago 3
@ofirb10 Actually the Arabs were pretty moderate until the creation of Israel. Radical Salifist islam is a SIDE-EFFECT of Zionism. Similar how the radical segregationists in America during the 1960's gave rise to the black Panthers.
Also, the 22 Arab states you speak of were created by WESTERN COLONIALISTS. Let me define what borders YOU can live on, and what rights YOU can have. Then we'll see if you rebel against it. Sound fair?
skinnywhop87 2 months ago
@skinnywhop87 Yeah they were moderate, one only has to look at the empire they carved up, including how the annexed a third of the christian world (which they still occupy) before the first crusade even to see how moderate Arabs are...
Hereticalable 2 months ago
@Hereticalable again you're collectively blaming... If the US invades Iraq, is it the whole US to blame or the government? Hitler creates the 3rd reich, do you blame all Germans eternally?
If you say yes, than you're too stupid for me to debate with. Because you're applying that same logic to the Arabs collectively.
Do you blame England for the Spanish Inquisition just because they're both western Europeans too?
skinnywhop87 2 months ago
@skinnywhop87 Ok, let's lay it at the feet of the Arab leaders and governments. Then we only have to blame Hamas and the PLO, whose charters both state Israel will be wiped out and the Jews pushed into the sea. Let's look at the dictatorial governments around the Arab world (where I have lived before) and ignore their masses. Speaking of masses the amount of Islamic parties being elected in the wake of the Arab Sping makes you wonder doesn't it?
Hereticalable 2 months ago
@Hereticalable Firstly, you could complain about Islamic regimes being democratically elected, as long as you weren't arguing in favor a Jewish theocracy
With that aside, google the 2002 Saudi peace deal, where Israel has had the chance for normalized relations with ALL Arab states and even Iran, for withdrawing from the occupied territories (which is Israeli policy to do anyways)...
yet since then Israel has continued the separation wall (on land that doesn't belong to it) and settlements
skinnywhop87 2 months ago
@skinnywhop87 Mm..lets see,in 2002,174 Israeli were killed by Islamic Terror..so,while the Saudi,the great example of freedom and human rights,asked Israel to withdrawal from its own land,Hamas,Fatach,Jihad,el aqsa squad..were spreading their peace all over Israel..And insted of join Saudi ,we built a wall against the suicide attacks..
p.s
You never answer my question on the "Palestinian freedom movement" pre 67,48,ever?! as long as Arab/Muslim ocupied the land..
ofirb10 2 months ago
@ofirb10 Let's see, 2009 over 400 Palestinian CHILDREN were killed by Israeli terrorism. In 2006, another few hundred Lebanese CHILDREN were killed. How about Deir Yassin? King David Hotel? The Levon Affair? The attack on the USS Liberty? Israeli terrorism hasn't only killed more people than Islamic terrorism, until Gaddafi had the PanAm flight high jacked, Israel had the record for the largest and most brutal terrorist attack against the west ;)
So Israelis got more from Sauds than they deserve
skinnywhop87 2 months ago
@skinnywhop87 I'm sorry.you jump like a clown circus..you were talking about the yr 2002.right? Israel "missed" the golden ticket to "Islam is peace" wonderland...as for the dead Palestinian,well,if you fire from denst civilian area,using them as human shield and then cry for help..and lets not forget the great Paliwood industry..
As for the USS lIBERTY,lAVON AFAIR..yawn..King david..Yawn..whats that in the river of blood you Muslim left behind Muhamad?! google Islamic terror body count..
ofirb10 2 months ago
@Hereticalable so do explain who's really blocking the peace.
Is it Egypt building settlements in Palestine? Nooooo... Is it Lebanon? Noooo... Is it even Syria? Noooo... So blaming other nations for what ISRAEL does makes no logical sense, and shifting the blame is something for idiots. I would like to think you're more intelligent than that. Make an argument for Israel without invoking other countries faults, if it's at all possible for you to do
skinnywhop87 2 months ago
@Hereticalable you are racist as hell
ninjascroll6789 2 months ago
@ninjascroll6789 How odd, a mixed race man in a mixed race relationship with mixed race children is a racist...I'll take your word on this ;o)
Hereticalable 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Hereticalable "How odd, a mixed race man in a mixed race relationship with mixed race children is a racist" that is a racist statement it itself because you trying to say that a mixed race person cant be racist
ninjascroll6789 2 months ago
@Hereticalable You're not winning any friends for Israel with these sorts of comments. Also, You have this as your only warning. I'm happy to debate with you or exchange ideas, but if you any racism on my page again you'll be blocked from this page.
Don't be such a nazi, it will not be tolerated
skinnywhop87 2 months ago
@skinnywhop87 but if you USE any racism*
skinnywhop87 2 months ago
@skinnywhop87 "Racist" is a word thrown around a lot these days. I'd be interested to know why you think I am being racist.
I find it ironic you accuse me of being a Nazi too since my family fought the Nazis, unlike the family of people like Hajj Amin and many of the Arab nationalists who were supporters of the Nazis, helping them set up Muslim SS divisions like the Hanzer division.
I don't think you're happy to debate people who use facts you don't like.
Hereticalable 2 months ago
@Hereticalable Why is it important to you if he's "mixed" race. What relevance does that have.
I think it's ironic you think YOU are not a nazi, just because your family "fought" them.
BTW i have yet to see a fact used by you
skinnywhop87 2 months ago
@skinnywhop87 I'm referring to myself actually, after you declared me a racist and a Nazi.
I've mentioned many factual things you simply choose to ignore because they don't fit your worldview. We're not going to get anywhere debating in this manner. Even if we still disagree with the big picture, denying provable facts won't allow us to understand each other will it?
Hereticalable 2 months ago
@skinnywhop87
Oh come on, the Muslims created one of the largest empires in history through blood shed largely over the 100 years after Mohammad's death. These extremist sects would have been right at home in those times, they are only harkening back to message in the Quran which inspired generations before. The hatred of the Jews is in no way a product of recent politics, the attitude was the same in the Islamic world with pogroms and humiliating laws for over a thousand years.
Chinomareno 2 months ago
@Chinomareno Greeks and Romans also created one of the largest empires, does that mean you can never trust an italian or Greek? The christians have a blood history as well, so when you meet a Christian do you think they're all the same despite there's 33,000 different sects?
BTW you're totally stupid if you think Arabs hate Jews, especially when history shows the Jews sought REFUGE in Arab countries while CHRISTIANS were on the war path. Hence why Israel's largest ethnic group are the ARAB jews
skinnywhop87 2 months ago
@Chinomareno Also you should go to infoliveenglish (an Israeli news channel on youtube), and watch their newest videos. They have a story about Tunisia calling back all their Jews (who were never forced to leave I might add, they left because of job and housing that opened up after 1967)
So, why would an Arab country, that's preserved all it's historical Jewish sites, want it's Jews back for? Hmmm I thought these evil savages just inherently hated Jews? Oh yeah btw, I'm a jew and my gf is Arab
skinnywhop87 2 months ago
@skinnywhop87
An Arab Muslim? Really, and her family has no problem with the idea that you would never convert? If so you are in a tiny minority and your anecdotal experiences don't count for that much.
You are far too emotional I never said anything about evil savages, The Dhimma and Islamic conquests are plain historical fact. You are telling me 100000 people fled just because of job insecurity... Tunisia is such a warm place for Jews their synagogues are Truck bombed.
Chinomareno 2 months ago
@Chinomareno Nope they know I will never convert, and plus in Islamic culture I cannot deconvert from my Jewish ancestry. Her family are secularists muslims, yes there's plenty out there.
Did you follow the elections in Tunisia and Egypt? Yes Islamist parties won some seats (mainly because they were outlawed under the prior regimes, so they're a sort of trend).
However secularists in all these revolutions, are not a minority. This is the case for the WHOLE Arab world.
skinnywhop87 2 months ago
@skinnywhop87 But,the massacre were BEFORE Israel were created..Radical Islam is the SIDE EFFECT of Muhamad and his quran-if he calles for the death of the unbeliver,or to look for the Jews even under a rock..in the last 1400 yr Islam killed 250000000 ppl around the globe,long before Zionism..
when WESTREN COLONIALISTS created 22 Muslim counties,it was ok,once they created a Jewish state,its HARAM! and if we are dealing with borders,Jordan is part of my land too-according to the british mandat!
ofirb10 2 months ago
@ofirb10 If you can collectively blame all Arabs for what a very small minority than you cannot brush off Israeli terrorism, which is apart of their history. "Arabs" don't have a collective history. Tunisians, have a different culture from Moroccans, who again have a different culture and history than the Egyptians, who again have a much different culture and history than Saudi Arabia. So if you can collectively blame a group of 230 million people, than accept the wrongs Israel has committed
skinnywhop87 2 months ago
@skinnywhop87 Where did i blamed all Arab?! are you saying that all Arab are Muslim?! i blame Islam for creating Terror planet! You said Israel were the first to attack,the Irgun..ect.i gave you the Chronological event and now its "very small minority" action?! i didn't speak of collecivety culture-i speak of one thing that you all share-ISLAM! after all,it dosen't mater if you in Tunisia or Saudi-you all call ALLAH AKBAR before you blow up in a mall/beheading Kufar/honor killing..
ofirb10 2 months ago
@ofirb10 In just 10 years the CHRISTIAN regime of Hitler killed 6 million people, In America over the span of 500 years, 75% of the indigenous American population was killed by Europeans. From about 1930-1955 20 million Russians were killed under a secular government. In 1911 one million Armenian and Greek Christians were murdered by the SECULAR Ottoman government.
It's safe to say that just in the span of 500 years Europeans have killed more people than Muslim in 3 times the time span ;)
skinnywhop87 2 months ago
@skinnywhop87 the national-socialist regime wasn't christian. lern some history,moron.
rostkehlchen 2 months ago
@rostkehlchen Hitler was most certainly a Christian, and so what his regime. The "Final solution" was the idea of rid of those who were not of the direct ancestry of Adam and Eve.
Perhaps you should learn history, it's not that big of a revelation that Hitler's regime was Christian. it's basic history
skinnywhop87 2 months ago
@skinnywhop87
no.no.no.
rostkehlchen 2 months ago
@ofirb10 How can also forget the Salem Witch trials, the Spanish Inquisition (which many jews wouldn't exist now if it wasn't for the muslims who protected them from that, including my own family), the African slave trade (ran and controlled by the Dutch), and finally the complete dark ages...
And btw, doesn't Israel try to model itself after European countries.. that's something for you to ponder
skinnywhop87 2 months ago
@77unclefedor For the gene issue, I bring it up because these people are arguing against the rights of the Palestinians. So if they want to prove to me that they have an ancestral link to the land there, and are inherently entitled to it. Then I want to know under what scientific grounds.
I as a Jew am actually intrigued to know what links them to me, and what Israel even defies being a jew as. I think it's a worthy topic to bring up
skinnywhop87 2 months ago
@skinnywhop87
If you were not a liar and a racist, and had read the actual genetic studies, then there would be something to discuss. But you are just a person who likes to hate and to get attention. If you would take the time to actually read some history, rather than give your uneducated opinions in public, then there might be some