Barbara Ehrenreich on "Bait and Switch"

[Harikrishnalove]

The way people feedback Ms. Ehrenreich's ideas is just pathetic to me, a foreigner Costa Rican immigrant in USA, however, at least people tried to think about them despite the fact that their lack of critical thinking obviously demontrate in their comments that they are lost! She just criticizes the enphasis of corporation to label people in their recruiting methods while disregarding creativity and other characteristics that aloners and thinkers have!

[brianmc18974]

She is such a genius and one of the smartest people in this country

[eotto2001]

Thanks for this posting. 

[Darksunshinerain87]

I love this woman.

[21avasapi]

U are F'ceng player devil .

[razorbladekissss]

i dont see the problem with the personality test.. i mean, im in college and i can tell the people who are going to be great "corporate" types (usually cause they annoy the shit out of me in every way). the people who lack these qualities eventually quit cause they realize they hate it

[JackBlair2]

Another screaming gender feminist.

[hatonbackward]

yea, shes a little insane, but shes also a little right. read her book.

[JackBlair2]

No she isn't. She's infantile.

All her books end with "a call to collective action."

She is so self-important, like all Liberals. Let us leave her severely alone.

[lurgidbee]

Introverts can be troublemakers as they don't conform as easily to the 'group think' that management demands at the lower levels. Chanting corporate mantras by cheerleader types who don't question things is quite necessary, as critical thinking could upset the status quo of the power structure.

[catgumart]

well put,,,that type of "cheerleading" is something I absolutely abhor..I like critical thinking and being in control of my own expressions and have the self determination to choose not to agree or conform...low level management is very oppressive and mind/spirit numbing..a very depressing situation in my opinion...maybe that has to do with my personal disposition,temperament,charac­teristics, bio-chemical make-up..whatever it is I think all that "group think" is very unhealthy.

[atlantoon]

Ms. Ehrenreich is an amazing, courageous person.

[NSResponder]

Courageous?  What has she ever done that can be described as confronting danger?

-jcr

[JackBlair2]

Nothing, she's a useless cunt.

[JackBlair2]

Skills and abilities can be taught, obtained, and sharpened.

If you are not likeable in the first place, why would anyone want to spend time with you teaching these things?

[Vesnicie]

Because "likability" can be faked more easily than skills can be learned and likability is not going to help you solve any challenging puzzles at work. You say that Ehrenreich would create a totalitarian state, but doesn't this very word strike you as also appropriate to the situation in which employers are striving to mold each and every one of their employees into smiling, submissive, obsequious little line-towers?

[JackBlair2]

Yes, it would - if it were true.

[dutytocareforothers]

@Vesnicie Good comments. I've seen the corporate robot mentality training go on at universities. They practice freedom of speech but you can get scolded and teased out of your major if you raise any controversial subjects or if you voice different opinions contrary to the majority's point of view.

[colibri1]

Whether someone is "likeable" or not is a matter of opinion. Why is it that in corporate culture, and really in US society as a whole these days, everyone is expected to be extroverted, outgoing, smiling all the time, only interested in a narrow range of (pop culture) subjects, etc.? Why is it required for employment that you be all those things and nothing else? Why, if I'm good in a particular field, do I have to have the personality of a frat boy to get hired in the US?

[JackBlair2]

You don't. It's a myth. There is no one "corporate culture."

[dutytocareforothers]

@JackBlair2 Instead of work sampling and providing a pre-recorded seminar on generic skills training they demand a certain type of personality. Instead of on the job training and prior experience it all boils down to how likable you. It's so stupid.

[JackBlair2]

@dutytocareforothers It's stupid until it works. Most companies DON'T use this system. Some industries are more suited to "personality profiling."

It must work at least SOME of the time - otherwise, companies who do it would be out of business, and we wouldn't even be discussing the issue.

Much ado about nothing, which is a definition of sociology.

[dutytocareforothers]

@JackBlair2 Companies have gone out of business. Enron. Need I say more?

[JackBlair2]

@dutytocareforothers What does that have to do with Briggs-Meyer?

[JackBlair2]

If Ehrenreich's ideas were given free reign, we would find ourselves in a totalitarian slave state.

[syrnostalgic]

...I n fact, she has cited Stalinism and Soviet thinkig as an EXAMPLE of what she decries...But you didn't catch that, did you...Think of all those moronic Five Year Plans and the Hoo-Hah with which they were almost always launched.

[JackBlair2]

She may decry it, but it's the same as her thinking - that society can and should be planned and directed.

[dancebaby808]

thank God for critical and rational people like Ehrenreich who is able to see clearly the pervasive "dumbing down" of Americans through corporate culture and mass media outlets

[atlantoon]

well said!

[xyzllii]

Go forward...yes...

[JackBlair2]

Fuck this woman.

[mrktwn]

..Exactly, Michael D. Brown is the epitome of the HR mindset...

[Croscros72]

Don't you think HR professionals have a better idea of who they should hire, rather than this woman? It's where they get their money, after all.

[mrktwn]

The truth is Fascism is a terrible governmental model, but works great for/ in business.

[KensanOni]

HA! That's a laugh. They don't even know how to critique what they are hiring for. They don't know the skills. If they did, they'd be doing that as a living. They judge only by what they know, 'Do they say they have the skill?' and 'Do I like this person?'.

[dutytocareforothers]

@Croscros72 HR professionals don't know anything if they have low product turnover and high employee turnover.

[delong757]

This is the absulote truth about getting hired. They dont give a fuck about a persons ability. They care more about judging you as a person, your personal life, mannerisms etc. And they are biased against introverts because people like that dont play social games, and a thinking person with ability is very often the last person that a company wants to hire.

[NSResponder]

That's the "plays well with others" criterion, and it's perfectly valid. This woman is bent out of shape because she wants to be abrasive and aloof, and thinks other people should react to her as she decides, not as they decide.

I wouldn't hire her as a janitor.

-jcr

[SweetSweetWaldo]

You would hire Michael D. "Brownie Yer Doin' a Heck of a Job" Brown and you would love him because he's an upbeat dope just like you and the rest of the corporate douchenozzles!

[NSResponder]

I bet you were a big hit on the the elementary school playground, weren't you?

Try growing up and being civil. It can work wonders for your career prospects.

-jcr

[colibri1]

Funny you should say "I wouldn't hire her as a janitor." She actually worked as a housecleaner as part of her research for "Nickel and Dimed" and was very good at it.

[NSResponder]

Is there anyone besides herself who can attest that she was good at it? Self-promoters tend to be unreliable sources.

-jcr

[dutytocareforothers]

@NSResponder She isn't abrasive and aloof IMHO. A janitor usually works alone, follows orders, and has no decision-making power anyways.

[pubcat5]

We all understand that these personality tests are B.S. But me being an introvert has not kept me from getting any job that I have went for, it's simply knowing what they are looking for and then answering the questions based on that. Lie to them all day long, personally I think that is what they are looking for. Not so much someone to fit the mold, but someone who knows what the mold looks like.

[dutytocareforothers]

@delong757 I'm an extrovert. However, I do not play social games. But I agree it seems they like to have a lot of people very little thinking abilities. They also hire people that do not have empathy or people skills. They have the gift of verbal manipulation and double-speak but that is dishonest and unethical at the core of it all.

[Knoss]

I thought this was going to be about too many Americans getting college degrees and how they end up in debt to find they don't really have an advantage, and how many people with a skilled trade make more then those with a BA. i was disappointed.

[awakenedSandman0]

lol

[catgumart]

all the comments that I put up are responses to Alfrunk...

[NSResponder]

Dude... This isn't your blog.  There's a reason why YouTube limits comments to 500 characters.

-jcr

[catgumart]

You or I or anyone else have every right to make as many comments as we like and it is okay, especially if we feel we have more to say than is allowed within the 500 character limit and we feel it is necessary and or important. Every vehicle for communication and expression should be kept open and valid. ...if it is a deliberate attempt at being rude or commenting blatantly offensive nonsense for the sake of being immature then that is another matter...that would be spam...

[catgumart]

I can go on for a long time....but the truth is that we still live in a world that ignore economic injustice and is callous to the suffering that goes along with it, many people will say, I hate suffering and seeing poor children, but they don't want to give up any money to support programs that would enhance life in our society, they say to poor people, if you dont like the way things are why don't you do something about it,

[catgumart]

But if you don't have money you don't have a voice....Then they say what are you complaining for go out and volunteer... such a crass statement coming from people who are unwilling to volunteer portions of their significant stores of wealth for the betterment of the bottom strata of society, they forget that the poorer workers are already giving there time and labor for a very small compensation, also everyone who is not working isn't "lazy" there are other things to factor in...

[catgumart]

Second line: such an inattentive hypocritical statement coming from people unwilling to volunteer portions of their significant stores of wealth for the betterment of the bottom strata.. I know there are charities, and they do some real good, but not enough to catch up with problem at large, I think people like Warren Buffet are honorable but more needs to be done.........

[catgumart]

And I really believe the rich and the affluent and wealthy etc..republicans do a wonderful job of maintaining a callous and close mind, and use their limited experience when devising economic policy, they think if some one is working three jobs a day, and is supporting children that this is good and healthy, and that all the limitations of class are insignificant, even though they use all their power to protect their wealth............

[catgumart]

Another point, I believe that Barbara Ehrenreich's experiments are noble and helpful, but really people who are of lower economic means (homeless,destitute, poor,working poor, and LOW middle class) experience their lives on a day to day basis, and there is no awareness that it will ever end. there is no external reference point that says this is all an experiment and it will soon be over, it can only be understood through living it over the course of years

[catgumart]

How about common callousness and stigmatizing of poor people, people can tell if you are poor and they quickly will label you and categorize you and everyone knows that you are poor. People exclude others based on economic status, cutting them off from communication and interaction so that they are less aware and have less in the know about things that those who are included might take for granted, then they are called ignorant, even though they were excluded from the communication circuit....

[catgumart]

Next what other things, hmm health care, how many poor people have rotten teeth, and how many have infections that are festering and making them miserable and crazy and emotionally unstable, creating greater opportunity for other problems to compound, how many are going around with mounting health concerns weighing on there minds, putting off going to the doctors for fear of the cost,

[catgumart]

Healthy food is expensive and requires multiple trips to the store (most healthy food is perishable), this is problematic if you have transportation issues, public transportation? Well that cost money, plus you have to be on the schedule of the public transit system, a person with a car can just run out to the store...but lets face it..it takes work and energy and will power just to go out and navigate through society, I am usually burnt out after going to the store even for a small order...

[catgumart]

You have to pay with your benefit card in front of everyones stigmatizing eyes, lug groceries from the store to the bus stop, from the bus stop home, you have to be able to face the other people on the bus, this amount of endurance and energy just for groceries, people with transportation issues would rather get just ten boxes of generic fruit loops, and 20 cans of food club Beefaroni, I wonder how much of  that type of food you need to eat before exceeding your carbohydrate limit?

[catgumart]

What else can I add to this list, how about diet...have you seen how expensive it to eat the most optimum nutritious foods? Have noticed how overweight and tired working people are?Have you looked at poor people on welfare? Have you looked at rich people how they look?They are ripped and tanned and healthy and glowing and energized! Who has the will power to eat a few organic carrots are on there break at the gas station job, when the junk food is cheaper more filling and more gratifying

[catgumart]

I'm not saying they are unintelligent , don't have potential or are less, but they are caught within the trap, where it really is impractical to learn a new language, read Moby Dick, express themselves artistically, or to do anything outside a narrow mediocre spectrum, and if they do they wont fit in or have it acknowledged, it wont be worth anything, actually they will probably be mobbed for showing any intelligence or desire to be outside the norm.

[catgumart]

I believe in law enforcement, but there is a lot of crime and police are under stress, and the poor are under stress and there is confusion and stereotypes, so police can be brutal and not seen as people working on the behalf of someones protection but more as antagonist. The work of poorer people boring, tedious,repetitive, competitive, long hours, and there is an environment of mediocrity, from most poorer or working class people being under educated and desperate ( Im not saying they are dumb

[catgumart]

to add to that list, you have to take into account the demoralizing aspects like, squalor, crime (and poor people aren't the only criminals, think about Bernard Madoff) also as a poor person the temptation to resort to crime may be a survival mechanism, peer pressure by criminality in the environment, or some poor people may just have criminal way of life presented before them so they do not know any better. There is also abuse by cops as a poor person (I believe in law enforcement but bad cops

[catgumart]

What are some of the problems of poor and lower classes here are a few

1.they are a lot closer to being homeless than richer people, so that is constant reminder 2.they don' t have money or time or any PRACTICAL NEED for cultivating higher levels of awareness so they fall into routines and habits that maintain a very limited awareness( Im not saying they aren't intelligent, or clever but they are held back by from reaching an important level of awareness and freedom cont' above

[catgumart]

Wealthy people have too much and the amount they have far exceeds the amount of physical, mental, and psychological energy they exert, the poor and working classes not only have less money and resources and time to heal from the general adversity of life (because life for everyone is problematic ;accidents,relationship difficulties,disease, things breaking and wearing out etc..) they have an extra burden of problems that comes from economic injustice and all the variables that go with it,

[dsutari]

Wow, she is such a child. She must not have had a real job in quite a while.

The truth is that most people can be trained, managed and coached into being a competent employee - but you can't change someone's personality.

Who doesn't want to work with someone that is open, easy to conversate with and be honest with?

[dutytocareforothers]

@dsutari I agree. Friendly personalities are great. However, personality tests are not accurate. And people have biases against certain minorities. If they find out you are gay and you are working with a bunch of Mormons or Christians, then you are in trouble. They aren't going to be friendly to you no matter how nice and bubbly you are.

[Buddyb309]

I have a banana in my hand. Can I eat the banana as I interview? oh banana how I love thee!

[modernmariorc]

are you apply for a banana job? then yes you will qualify to do a bj (banan job)

[mateo134]

I was a recent graduate and thought the same things about companies interviewing for jobs. I had to be extremely proactive though, taking on 15 interviews in two months, eventually talking directly to a manager instead of the uber-extroverts corporations use in HR for first-round interviews.

Now that I'm working in the real world though, I see a lot of merit to corporations looking past skills and experience. For example, I doubt anyone wants a boss as mean or vitriolic as Barbara.

[Steven2480]

Easy for you to say -- you found a job.

Barbara's not mean or full of vitriol; she's witty and honest.

[modernmariorc]

very witty and straight to the point and the root of the issue. great job barbara. a pleasure to listen to you!

[Alfrunk]

You must not have read any of her books. She is very, very hateful and dishonest. Wonder how much money she gave the women she made all the money from? NONE.

[catgumart]

she cant be expected to give money away you cant expect one person to start handing out money, really soon a moderately well off person like Ehrenreich (who has earned money from books exposing truth) would be broke, there needs to be a fair redistribution, through a government process, I do not believe in dispossessing rich people, but a sliding scale up; the wealthier they are the higher percent they need to send down to the bottom. I believe in an economic floor where no can fall below

[Alfrunk]

Right, but we all know that it doesn't work that way. You tax behavior you want to curtail. You are suggesting that we limit/punish achievement and innovation. No one is supposed to stay at a low paying job forever, but some people make bad (horrible) decisions and that is their own fault, no one else's. It's bad enough as it is... how much more should the "rich" be paying?? Sick.

[catgumart]

I couldn't disagree with you more, 1, Taxes aren't merely some kind of punishment, taxes are a way to share and maintain the cost for a healthy society,2. Necessity is the mother of invention not greed 3. I don't mind people reaping fruits from there labors but at some point when their wealth starts getting too high, it is time to send it back down to the bottom, capitalism finds efficient ways to capitalize on the energy of laborers, and the needs and whims of the public

[Alfrunk]

I'm saying that by definition - taxes punish. If you want to reduce a certain behavior, you tax it. I never once said taxes weren't necessary. WHo gets to decide when wealth gets "too high" - what does that mean? Furthermore, we already do what you're suggesting in this country. Can you point out a time in history when your ideas have worked? It doesn't work. Education and personal responsibility are the keys to life imo.

[catgumart]

When wealth is concentrated, when individuals or small groups of people have enormous amounts of money..who needs to have more than ten million dollars at one time? this is extravagance, people must say we don't have enough of this and this and we need this and this, and all the people withholding need to relinquish, other wise people aren't free, the right for people to have wealth doesn't exceed the right for people to not have to live in a state of unhealthy economic circumstance

[catgumart]

Socialism has worked well when it has been implemented democratically in different parts of the world at different times. We do not tax wealth enough in comparison with the amount they have, Education and personal responsibility: acquiring knowledge is expensive and timely and education quality is unequal. Personal responsibility..ability to be responsible declines with greater adversity as you have less resources and energy to draw on to provide you with the strength and will to respond

[catgumart]

A lot of people stay at bad low paying jobs for a long long time, and then they might get a slightly better job, but not much better, if they even do get a better job, in the meanwhile they are aging and experiencing misfortunes associated with low income, the term "bad decisions" is is very vague, do you mean mistakes, or do you mean risky choices, or do you mean purposefully immoral acts...when someone makes a mistake isn't irresponsible for humanity to just say "too bad, its your own fault,

[seandeyhim]

For all of you who think this country is the greatest and everyone else is below us... you are blind, uneducated and ditached from reality. As far as Barbara's credibility, well she knows her stuff and speaks the truth so maybe you need to do your research. As far as talking trash about people who cannot write or speak proper english, get a F**king life, English doesnt rule the world and I think he got his point accross.

[catgumart]

How can you say Barbarah Erenriech is raceist? She is the opposite of raceist. She was positively mentioned in Dr, Cornell West's book

"Democracy Matters"...no I strongly disagree with that acusation.

[Alfrunk]

She is very elitist and racist. I don't care what a moron like "Dr." West says. Read nickel and dimed and you'll see what I mean. She is a vile, prejudiced, hateful old hag. She is a phd in biology, so why should we give a FUCK what she says about social issues?? Ridiculous.

[catgumart]

Your response is so immature that I can't take (Alfrunk) you seriously. Life if you are poor or of lower classes is a bitch, it is tough and difficult and stultifying, and numbing and inhibiting and oppressive, granted it is worse in other countries, it is still very difficult and there is much unnecessary suffering that comes as a result (and I mean MUCH) you don't need a doctorate to see that, republicans fight for the rights of the rich, and the rich deserve to have rights, but less money.

[Alfrunk]

This woman has no credibility. She's an avowed markist/socialist, an absolute racist and also a liar. I encourage everyone to look in to her background before taking anything she says seriously.

[dwc172r]

Alfrunk, your post has no credibility.

[Alfrunk]

Wow, that was real convincing. You're amusing, keep it up.

[elbowbiter1]

I can think of at least 2 or 3 more reasons why east might be writing. It is too bad that east wasn't very politcal in his/her approach and also isn't very articulate with the language. You brought up an interesting point though "Americans speak English" therefore this message was ment to piss them off. I disagree. EVERY one speaks English therefore there was no real target audience. "Yanks" getting offended might have been an unfortunate side effect. But this is tangential to my original point.

[oashkoash]

"East" obviously has strong feelings.

He/she is writing them to anger the "yanks" aka Americans, thus, triggering an argument.

Americans speak English.

If "East" cannot articulate his feelings to the English speaking Yanks, why start the argument at all?

[East17A]

you know i have traveled all over the world discover alot of diffrent country's around and this country is worse U.S.A no body know nothing you just get lost every thing it ment to be up side down back word this is what it is no wonder why most people are willing to become easy retarded

[MartyMcFly1A]

Yeah, and you're definitely better than the average American. I mean, there's no arguing; you sound like a genius!

[elbowbiter1]

English is probably East's fifth language. How many does the average Yank speak?

[oashkoash]

A wise person does not an argument start with a "Yank" if he cannot accurately express his (obviously) strong feelings.

[elbowbiter1]

What's all this about strong feelings and arguments? And who started an argument with the word "Yank" certainly not this cowboy. ;)

[oashkoash]

"East" obviously has strong feelings.

He/she is writing them to anger the "yanks" aka Americans, thus, triggering an argument.

Americans speak English.

If "East" cannot articulate his feelings to the English speaking Yanks, why start the argument at all?

[bissikrima]

Thats very true that they are afraid of really smart people !

[Ethan427]

I am not in to scientolagy, but I see why you'r religeon is under attack. First the book about the Phsycotropic drugs that was banned and this.

[jimroletter]

I'm a single male. In philadelphia I could survive easily and healthily on $600/month. Apts/rooms I can get for $350 utilities incl, a bus pass for $55/month, no cable, no cell, monthly food for like $100 or less easy, just buy 50 lb bags of rice and some cans of beans, even with a wife and kid I'd be fine, CHIP, WIC, and Welfare would more than cover them and I'd prob be able to afford cable with the welfare check

[Dreamsryche58]

Skills and experiences can be represented by personalities. And she had pre-determined thoughts going into the making of her terrible "Nickel and Dimed" book. When someone who makes plenty of money every year, and goes to a poverty level, they will long for riches once again. And many of these people making poverty level wages are teens still living with their parents. The amount of people her book represents is incredibly minuscule.

[BroyhillVideo]

Ehrenreich shows that it is fairly easy to find a job in the current economy, and to find one that will pay in the range of $7 to $9. At $8.50 an hour, your income for a full time job would be $17,680. This would put you comfortably above the poverty level ($8,590 for a single person, $14,630 for a single parent with two children) and not only would you not have to pay Federal Income Tax. -brothersjudd

[bandgeek1013]

i read this book over the summer for school. i didn't really get anything from it. she did this whole thing, even though she didn't want to. and she didn't even go all out on it. she always had her ATM to fall back on, always had a car. it seemed fake. this is a perception and i may be wrong, but it seems as if she took this on already knowing what she would write in her book. she didn't do it for others. it seemed to me like she did it for herself. idk.

[Stranger2TheRain]

IM writing an essay on her book right now, and I really respect her for Nickel and Dimed

[HunterMann]

I have 25,000 hours work experience in film production, but never went to college or film school. I find that I have to either trim my resume down or claim some kind of college degree... Crazy!

[innercent12]

Barbara- I have just graduated from college...How do you "dumb down your resume?"

[gedhession]

That's what career coaches are for. They charge you $200 just to show you how to dumb down your resume.

[jobmatchajobmate]

join findajobmatch dot com

[Stranger2TheRain]

She takes out a lot.

[annarboriter]

This woman raises hell, pokes fingers in people's faces, and I like it.