And there's 1 Nephi 20:6-20 which is instructing the Israelites to "flee from the Chaldeans. (Even though the Chaldeans had already taken the Northern Tribes by this time.
And unless I'm misreading the passage, isn't 1 Nephi 19:10 referring to God the Father yeilding Himself as a "man" to be "crucified"? And 3 days of darkness? Really? Missed that part in the gospels. Maybe Joseph forgot that the gospels actually said three hours (6th to the 9th hour), not days.
1 Ne. 20 is simply a citation of Isaiah 48. People who use the Bible as a spiritual guide will often cite a textual passage in order to create a religious message. The practice is not unusual. I would refer you to an outstanding observation made on this subject by Israeli scholar Moshe Seidel:
"The words a person reads and hears and repeats become his own, enter his verbal storehouse. When needed they become, even if he does not know it, the clothing for the thoughts to which he...
gives birth. Sacred literature, the inheritance of earlier generations, is incised on the heart of the prophets and sacred poets; it is their fount and the object of their musing, something they have contemplated many a day. Therefore the idea which appeared to them through the holy spirit finds expressions in the same linguistic forms and phrases that were impressed in their hearts, became habitual on their lips and were made a part of the prophets themselves
Well, this is one explanation. Certainly OT prophetic citations were quoted almost verbatim by other OT prophets. Yet in the case of the Nephi books, there are problems that lead me to think that Joseph Smith simply inserted these texts into his book to give it an air of legitimacy.
Ah yes, the text is instructing Babylon to flee. Good enough on 1 Nephi 20. Thank you.
And my other points regarding Nephi 19, 22, etc etc???? Those were the ones that seemed more clearly problematic. It was ch 20 I admitted I was perhaps not reading it right.
Your going from common "English" words back to the Hebrew dismantles your whole premise here. This "proves" only one thing: That Joseph (and I imagine friends) simply used Old testaments themes and wordage to give the BofM a sense of legitimacy.
Yet even after some 4000 changes to the Book of Mormon in the last 190 years, many of which are more than just grammar, etc., you still have embararssing sections like 1 Nepphi 22:15 which clearly refers to the prophet Malachi. (it clear from the text and even the BofM footnote references Malachi). Of course the problem here is that Nephi was supposedly written some 100 years before Malachi even lived. It's referencing the prophecy of a prophet that does not yet even exist.
Very good work Dbokovoy.
MrGavygav 1 year ago
And there's 1 Nephi 20:6-20 which is instructing the Israelites to "flee from the Chaldeans. (Even though the Chaldeans had already taken the Northern Tribes by this time.
And unless I'm misreading the passage, isn't 1 Nephi 19:10 referring to God the Father yeilding Himself as a "man" to be "crucified"? And 3 days of darkness? Really? Missed that part in the gospels. Maybe Joseph forgot that the gospels actually said three hours (6th to the 9th hour), not days.
Some of the endless problems
HaveUconsidered 1 year ago
1 Ne. 20 is simply a citation of Isaiah 48. People who use the Bible as a spiritual guide will often cite a textual passage in order to create a religious message. The practice is not unusual. I would refer you to an outstanding observation made on this subject by Israeli scholar Moshe Seidel:
"The words a person reads and hears and repeats become his own, enter his verbal storehouse. When needed they become, even if he does not know it, the clothing for the thoughts to which he...
Dbokovoy 1 year ago
gives birth. Sacred literature, the inheritance of earlier generations, is incised on the heart of the prophets and sacred poets; it is their fount and the object of their musing, something they have contemplated many a day. Therefore the idea which appeared to them through the holy spirit finds expressions in the same linguistic forms and phrases that were impressed in their hearts, became habitual on their lips and were made a part of the prophets themselves
Dbokovoy 1 year ago
Moshe Seidel, Parallels Between the Book of Isaiah and the Book of Psalms, Sinai 38 [1955-56]: 149 [Hebrew].
Dbokovoy 1 year ago
@Dbokovoy
Well, this is one explanation. Certainly OT prophetic citations were quoted almost verbatim by other OT prophets. Yet in the case of the Nephi books, there are problems that lead me to think that Joseph Smith simply inserted these texts into his book to give it an air of legitimacy.
HaveUconsidered 1 year ago
@Dbokovoy
Ah yes, the text is instructing Babylon to flee. Good enough on 1 Nephi 20. Thank you.
And my other points regarding Nephi 19, 22, etc etc???? Those were the ones that seemed more clearly problematic. It was ch 20 I admitted I was perhaps not reading it right.
HaveUconsidered 1 year ago
Your going from common "English" words back to the Hebrew dismantles your whole premise here. This "proves" only one thing: That Joseph (and I imagine friends) simply used Old testaments themes and wordage to give the BofM a sense of legitimacy.
HaveUconsidered 1 year ago
Yet even after some 4000 changes to the Book of Mormon in the last 190 years, many of which are more than just grammar, etc., you still have embararssing sections like 1 Nepphi 22:15 which clearly refers to the prophet Malachi. (it clear from the text and even the BofM footnote references Malachi). Of course the problem here is that Nephi was supposedly written some 100 years before Malachi even lived. It's referencing the prophecy of a prophet that does not yet even exist.
HaveUconsidered 1 year ago
"altered form of Hebrew", kind of like "reformed Egyptian"?
Must be a lot of ancient "altered" Hebrew texts found in America, no?
Could you direct me to some museums where I could check out some of these ancient "Lamanite/Hebrew/Indian documents?
HaveUconsidered 1 year ago
Excellent. Important insights.
HamblinOfJerusalem 1 year ago