Anti-Statism - Roads

[DeraJa]

there are many many many ways to deal with roads. Some are better then others.

[scatcoitus]

actually, how would you force people to pay for roads anyway? would privatized road companies have their own police force?

[DeraJa]

@scatcoitus you don't force people to pay for roads, if they don't pay, you kick them off your property. It is just like someone who doesn't have permission digging up your flower bed. you kick them off.

[scatcoitus]

privatized roads in my opinion is what you would have in a dystopia. i wouldn't want to pay every time i used a fucking road to travel somewhere.

[DeraJa]

@scatcoitus I don't anticipate such a scenario in city roads. Cities would be broken up into many many small home owner associations or business associations. The associations would then take care of and pay for the roads. on these roads it would not make much sense for them to be toll roads. for highways and "interstates" it would be different. Those would be some sort of toll road, but that in no way means stopping every 5 miles or whatever to give a person your change. there are many tech

[juntaon]

Watch my valentine's video! ^_^

[zomgtehrei]

What the fuck? What kind of jumbled shitty metaphor upon metaphor explanation jangling into nothing was that? Also you managed to say 'y'know' 14 times, which is about one every 12 seconds.

[sausage4mash]

yuck! a country run by business ?! and this is some sort of utopia :) not getting all this anarchist stuff , no one argues for greater accountability of states through democratic reform , guess that's dull ,lol.

[credible2]

@sausage4mash a government IS a business: it's a MONOPOLY.

In a stateless society, there would be COMPETITION. There would be freedom.

[sausage4mash]

Do you not think you are over simplifying things a little ?

and what is it with this stupid idea that came from American that capitalism has anything to do with democracy.

[credible2]

@sausage4mash sure. i did that to make things easier, especially since there is a word limit on the comments. I could go into much more detail.

And no, democracy has to do NOTHING with capitalism, you're right. I'm not one of those guys.

[embracedestruction]

And how is this better than paying the gov't to build a road? I may not like taxes, but it seems better than gives private companies the power to control my movement for profit.

And you seem to think that people driving on the road for free wouldn't be a problem. Look how aggressive the RIAA gets when over MP3s. They've fined people $22,500 a song. What's to stop these private road companies from hiring private militias to enforce their tolls? Call the cops? Oh wait we privatized them...

[eragon2121]

an issue like this is extremely complicated so making it sound simple isn't a good idea.

[BlackBlueLagoon]

My question is HOW would a paved road make a company money? I could see auto mechanics NOT want paved roads so that way you would have to replace your shocks, tires, etc etc a lot more often.

[xentech]

who is paying for the road to be made and maintained? i don't see how you answered this at all

[VirtualHolocaust]

well dirt roads dont really need to be maintained. however if the company wants to save money on the suspension or tires they could pave it.

[ZamatoElite]

A firm would build and maintain the road. There exists private roads right now, and they tend to function beautifully. The firm that owns the road would collect money through tolls, adverts placed on the side of the road., or possibly local firms will fund the road so customers will visit their stores.

That part makes sense to me. I'm just worried about these roads competing. I see it very likely for a natural monopoly or cartel to form (with the help of natural geography).

[Rahab111222]

Anarchists think streets and roads are a natural occuring phenomenon.

[VirtualHolocaust]

ever see a trail in the woods?

[citizen762]

I don't think any company with a private road would want to supply their competition with its usage for free. I don't see the point of a private roadway. It could only cause dispute and legal issues and result in toll roads and/or taxation for its use in the form of payments to the company who maintains it. -- which is not much different than we have now.

[chorizo1337]

another good way to make roads is, collective hours used to help build the road, and those who cant work just collectivley pool money together

[MrPainfullytrue]

the state ,made itself by fulfilling the needs of the masses.....

to remove it would only maje it rebuild again....

Yu suck dude;)

be well.

[VirtualHolocaust]

didnt you use to have another name?

[ZamatoElite]

My only gripe with private roads is the possible (likely*) formation of natural monopolies. As palmtreez101 said in an earlier comment: "this might lead to having multiple (unnecessary) roads in between point A and point B instead of just one big road that everyone could use. "

I'm more worried about the instances where the natural geography doesn't accommodate multiple roads.

Instead of emphasizing private roads, anti-statists should emphasize trains and new innovative forms of transit.

[VirtualHolocaust]

there are unnecessary roads to get to point as well. They are side streets. Also these extra roads would take the stress off the main ones.

[ZamatoElite]

I understand, but how does your theory prevent natural monopolies?

Also, in some areas there may be a bunch of competing roads connecting points A & B, I imagine these roads will have to cross over or under each other at one point. You can't just build a bridge over another firm's road, and if you can, then what is the incentive for the firm building the bridge to respect the other firm's road?

Your theory could work in practice, but on paper it has a long list of flaws and unanswered Q's.

[credible2]

i think in some rare cases, there may be natural monopolies on road (due to geography). Like you said in an earlier comment, Zam, anti-statists need to emphasis other innovative modes of transportation. And personally, if there is a monopoly on roads, there WILL probably be other alternative modes of transportation, if not,the THREAT of alternate forms of transportation.

[NermalsChannel]

Everyone wants roads, but we're all lazy shits, so roads are impossible without the state.

[greenhell666]

You nailed it and I lol'd

face it folks, there will always be some sort of government along with universal interests and needs

better than be a small and direct governance

also privatization is bullshit

[abortabraham]

Privatization in its current form means transferring a government monopoly into private hands (whoever lobbied for control of that program). Its still a monopoly, and that's why privatization is "bullshit".

[palmtreez101]

Here's one flaw I see in this, the roads can also benefit their competitors. This can lead to these business leaders saying, only I can use this road and no one else can.

Basically this might lead to having multiple (unnecessary) roads in between point A and point B instead of just one big road that everyone could use.

[NermalsChannel]

"the roads can also benefit their competitors"

I think this is mostly offset because it also gives incentive for others (non-competitors) to do business with you.

[1mealperday]

BUSINESS has yet to do anything to be NICE

Gas tax is best way, private roads become toll roads because it costs more than any one business can afford, plus it must have some planning. Without government no new roads will be built except logging and mining roads.

[doucher337]

lolololol

The state doesn't create welfare programs to help the poor. When we think of Dunbar units, we can see that there's no reason for the president to concern himself much with some impoverished pawns. Roads can be built within and around residential communities by the members of that community pooling resources - that even happens today. You're either a troll or a fucking idiot, and I'm betting on the latter.

[NermalsChannel]

If it's not everyone's priority to be nice, then what's the problem? If it is a priority to be nice, then won't people be nice, regardless of whether or not they are required to or not?

[VirtualHolocaust]

its good PR?

[NermalsChannel]

Exactly. You have to wonder how much some people think about their arguments, when they basically boil down to "How can you be a good person if you're not in a cage?"

[abortabraham]

Roads are not expensive, and it doesn't mean there can't be "public options" for roads i.e. voluntary community organizations (without imminent domain). Imagine if I told you we needed to have a "steam tax" in order to have railroads.