so true. The Earth never cost anything when man first roamed it, having the means to think & use our knowledge to do things comes free, so I've never understood why man had to invent money & the system that goes along with it. Money makes the majority of people on earth now struggle, without the existence of money we would all live in a far more pleasant world
Socialism, communism, capitalism- all outdated systems that use money. What we need is a system that utalises science and technology, one that is fair and equal. I advocate a resource based economic model! Check out 'The Zeitgeist movement' and 'The venus project' capitalism is crisis!
@Lazyguy22 Money does away with the "coincidence of wants" which has to be pretty essential for any sophisticated society. All it really does is ease in the valuation and distribution of resources, so surely it is the allocation of the resources themselves which is the problem. And before anyone says "yeah, but what about the banks..." well that is another problem with the system, not money itself.
Money is just a symbol of effort. Without it we would just choose some other rare knick knack that is hard to replicate and assign it arbitrary value based on that rarity. We are a capitalistic species. We have been since the first man went out with a spear, killed an animal, dragged it back to the cave, and gave it to his wife in exchange for children. Or traded it to a fellow tribesman for a second spear. Supply, demand, even children trade - comes to us, naturally.
@way2tehdawn We don't need to return to bartering.A free access society with production for use to satisfy all human needs, is possible with the removal of the capitalist class.A society with the organising tenet of," from each according to their ability to each according to their needs" is entirely feasible.The only thing holding it back is apolitically aware majority to opt for it and work towards this goal.
@GlengarryGlennBeck No I don't, some nights it's Lenin, other nights it's Karl Marx depending on my need for beard. I'm looking forward to purchasing a blow up doll of Castro complete with dildo cigar...
@alanthe2 when you crowd of clowns give my original comment about socialism 5000 thumbs down, and then you just HAD to give the guy's "correction" comment 5000 thumbs up, it only shows how insecure you are and how my original comment obviously hit a nerve.
you guys are like a bunch of little rabid chihuahaus all fighting over who gets to hump charlie brooker's leg. you make me vomit
@GlengarryGlennBeck So, you're upset that your comment didn't get thumbed up?
And you're upset that the other guys comment did?
Why are you so jealous? Jealous people are insecure so I suppose we should welcome you into our "Crowd of Clowns"..........face paint optional....nah just kidding, some lefty will definitely jizz on your face....
@GlengarryGlennBeck I know I can tell. Your self esteem is most likely at its lowest considering how you include every comment with an insult.
Is that how you were treated as a child? Nothing you ever did or have done has ever been acknowledged by anyone.
and now you come onto the internet and rage about it "waaah, my comment didn't get 5000 thumbs up but the other guy did waaah, you guys are all twats because of it"
It's ok mate, one day you'll say something and someone will agree, one day...
@alanthe2 You are the one who is clearly unfulfilled and miserable. Anyone would be when they spend half their life wanking off over a colossally flawed dreamy ideology whose only notable "achievement" is the death of hundreds of millions of "dissenters" in various regimes worldwide.
@alanthe2 Additionally you based your last 100 comments in this comment box on the mischaracterisation that I was "unhappy" and "jealous" not to receive 50 thumbs up from people who think the movie "V for Vendetta" is the height of human achievement when I was just laughing at how overzealously you feel the need to "thumbs down" the one single person in the entire continent of Europe who dares not to join in the giant juvenile circle wank over the works of the angry self hating Jew Karl Marx.
@GlengarryGlennBeck I'm quite pleased I got three comments for the price of one, I like to read. Are you going to write me an essay on the politics of GlengarryGlennBeck after this? Please do, I love comedy.
You exaggerate a lot and the more you do it, the further from the truth you become. You also assume things and we all know the saying about those who assume. It's ok, I assumed too so I guess we're both asses.
You seem to confuse socialism with communism but hey, we all make mistakes.
@alanthe2 Saying "You got socialism confused with Communism" is like saying "You got crack addiction confused with meth addiction" - they're both at the bottom of the barrel of humanity, so only someone with the most insipid mindset would feel the need to make a big deal out of the distinction.
@GlengarryGlennBeck I'm finding it hard to take anything you say seriously, I should have known better than to engage in a discussion on YouTube with someone who thought it was a good idea to include "Glenn Beck" in their username.
So I concede my friend, you win, socialism is crack and communism is meth and they're all bad for our health. We're all clowns for thinking there might be something better than what we have now and you are the pillar of rational thought in Europe.
@alanthe2 "I'm finding it hard to take anything you say seriously"
I know. If it doesnt sound liek something a 77yo crusty left wing alchoholic radio 4 comedian wud say, it cant possibly have any legitimuceeeee! Liek, at allz!
"We're all clowns for thinking there might be something better than what we have now "
"WE'RE JUST LIEK, TRYING TO CHANGE THINGS FOR THE BETTER D00D! GULAGS ARE JUST, LIEK, THE HOPIEST, CHANGIEST WAY TO THE INTELLECTUAL SUPERFUTURE OR SOMETHING! JON STEWART IS KEWL!"
@GlengarryGlennBeck Do you write similes for Jeremy Clarkson? If you don't, you should. As for being mouthy, I think I called you a "fool" and an "ass" both of which are true and only moderately describe what an aggressive, narrow minded individual you are
Yes, my last comment was weak, you like men to be men and that's your choice but theres nothing wrong with a "fucking wet cunt" once in a while.
Perhaps if you found one (other than me of course) this would be over already.
The distinction between socialism and communism is a very important one. Communism has never worked on a large scale, socialism DOES work in most European countries. The UK, where I live, is a social democracy. Regulated competition is allowed, but our schools, healthcare and various other things are paid for by the state. It works very nicely indeed.
@nashertheatheist Very nicely. Unless you want to see a doctor who speaks English and won't sew you up with his blackberry accidentally left inside you.
Every doctor I have ever met has spoken English. Every treatment I have had (including several operations) has gone smoothly. Yes, there are some horror stories, but they do not accurately represent the NHS as a whole.
@nashertheatheist Every doctor you've ever met spoke English? Even if you're not lying that still doesn't prove anything. You're just one person.
Btw, how do you like paying for your dentistry twice? Once through taxes, then again at the point of use because some ghoulish NHS administrator pilfered the money to spend on whiskey and orgies in his posh Pimlico flat with Swedish rent boys?
True, my account is anecdotal evidence so not valid. But recent laws now ensure all doctors speak English (source: Daily Mail, 4th October 2011) so I will point you to that.
Dentistry: I like it better than if I had to live in some right-shifted hellhole like the US. There's a reason they're 37th in the world for health (worse than Morroco, Chile and Dominica). We get a better deal than we would under a privatised system. A MUCH better deal.
Socialism = common ownership and democratic control of all the means and instruments for creating and distributing wealth by and in the interests of all.Communism means the same.There is no difference from a world Socialist Movement perspective.We have never had socialism or communism anywhere.It is a post-capitalist - free access society.Wages and prices are abolished and distribution is according to self determined needs.
Indeed. I agree that such societies have not yet existed (at least, not on the large scale). I believe that the principles are wonderful in theory and would create a utopia if effected properly. But I'm not convinced that society in its current form is capable of maintaining a socialist state. I would be more than willing to live in such a country, and could live by the necessary rules quite easily. But there are enough people who wouldn't, who would destabilise it or lead it astray.
Society in its current form is not capable of running a TRUE socialist state, anyway. When I have used it in these comments, I have been referring to the conventional, widely-used term. Which is actually just slightly more regulated capitalism.
@nashertheatheist The point is to change society.It is a long term project organize consciously and politically for the conquest of the powers of government, national and local, in order that this machinery, including these forces, may be converted from an instrument of oppression into the agent of emancipation and the overthrow of privilege, aristocratic and plutocratic.
How would decision-making be done? Say if there was an overpopulation problem looming, and a few people decided they wanted to establish colonies on Ganymede and Callisto. Someone would have to direct resources to building these colonies, and ships to transport people there. It would be no small undertaking and without a state, things might be difficult to manage effectively.
@nashertheatheist Decisions would be made ,locally regionally,globally.The difference is it would be real participatory democracy with recallable delegates, a part of the whole, rather than an administration 'over' the populace.It would be an administration of things by the populace.With no classes, either elite groups or powerful economic classes the state essentially 'withers away'(Engels) as its co-ercive nature is dismantled on the way to the revolution.It is 'the' revolution.No come-back.
@nashertheatheist You're such a tedious man. That's what makes arguing with you so hard. Not any actual intellect. Same goes for all of you pathetic EU-worshipping left wing studenty types.
I'm telling you, if you could see what your university history professor who obviously taught you everything you "know" did on weekends to kidnapped 5 year old boys while dressed up as Bertrand Russell, you wouldn't be so fond of him.
I... what? I'm sorry, what I just read was the most incomprehensible jumble of hilarious bile I've read so far this week.
Not being content to make a n attack against me, you also decided to accuse my non-existent history lecturer of being a paedophile.
I'm happy to wait until you actually address anything I, y'know, actually said. Get a cup of tea, calm down and then maybe come back and talk about it like a grown-up.
@thejackroller I don't think it's necessary to believe in a "soul" recognise that ethical and moral decisions cannot be made logically, and probably *should* not be made scientifically.
I agree, we can only guess what a dolphin might say if it could, and "up there" is about right.
Many great civilisations and empires where built with no apparent need of money, and most faiths teach that worldly wealth is not the way to gain spiritual satisfaction. (what-ever term they choose to give that)
@bobsobol They may preach it for the faithful punters, but they don't practice it for their institutions, which mainly (some exceptions) support the dominant ideologies for the purpose of reproducing their dominance.
@PeterJohnBarfield A good recommendation for others, but I have already investigated their attempts.
My current feeling is that they are working against a global capitalist backdrop. For their plans to succeed in the current climate, they will need the initial backing of wealthy patrons... and few such people exist.
"It is easier to fit a camel through they eye of a needle.."
The alternative method is a violent uprising of the downtrodden. Violent uprisings usually lead to violent leadership.
@bobsobol Grassroots social structures with more substance and usefulness than bake-sales and reggae soundsystem nights. You can have organisation without the extreme inequality and elitism of the present system, and it starts at grassroots level and now with violent revolution, which just begets more violence.
Capitalist sponsorship generally corrupts even when it is relatively well-intentioned. The donors want a say in how things are done, and they carry their elite assumptions with them.
@bobsobol "It is easier to fit a camel through they eye of a needle..".. it's unusual to hear someone quote that as a warning about people in this life rather than instructions for getting to the next. Kudos.
@PeterJohnBarfield ... had a mate who got reall heavily involved with the Zeitgeist movement... didn't like me asking too many questions and got quite aggressive... he started to use personal insults against me and turned me against the whole project. The Venus Project is for hippies living in 'la la land' and goes against the whole idea of basic social cohesion. Human social conditions involves 'winners' and 'losers'... The Venus Project says that they can only be winners. It's a load of shit!
@PeterJohnBarfield It seems to me that a resource based economy would retard technological progress to a dangerous level (our most important type of progress as it gets us off of this tomb before the inevitable death of this planet occurs). War, greed, ambition, they are all negative but carry a positive benefit of driving technology forward. The rockets we got to the moon on started as V2 rockets used by Nazis to kill the English citizens, for example. Our ultimate goal is avoiding extinction.
@PeterJohnBarfield to be honest the venus project is very very very wooly, its an idea made up by few people, in an attempt to change the thinking of the entire globe into one of peace unity and against greed... nice idea, but it only takes one person to fuck it up, and then its completely fucked up
@thejackroller "Biologically and socially, humans have greater capacity for thought than any other animal currently living" I strongly disagree with that. (not in all cases, but I could list examples if I had space)
I believe the written word, and opposable thumbs is what set us on the thrown.
But my "argument" is a spiritual, and emotional one, not a logical one. "Enlightenment" is a spiritual concept, not easily assessed logically. And "logic" is not the only test of intelligence.
I will not accept personal insults, or insults to considerate commentators here.
If you don't understand sarcasm, you should not be watching Charlie Brooker.
However, the insulting comment I have removed by terminegget clearly proved that (s)he (he, I presume) is considerably less intelligent than a carrot, and far less enlightened than a Hyena... Politely. ;)
@bobsobol If you're going to take on that challenge, then you'd best look at some of them ost recent shitshrieks occupying your comment section at the moment.
@terminegger Most other mammals, some avians and piscine, not to mention many vegetables are not only far superior to mankind in terms of their enlightened spirit, but are also far more intelligent.
The reason we cannot classify them as such, is our own argent scale of "intelligence" which is entirely based upon "human" intellect.
For example, and intelligent species would not consider utilising fossil fuel, because it's clearly too dangerous. Only an idiot would fail to see that.
so true. The Earth never cost anything when man first roamed it, having the means to think & use our knowledge to do things comes free, so I've never understood why man had to invent money & the system that goes along with it. Money makes the majority of people on earth now struggle, without the existence of money we would all live in a far more pleasant world
jonanice 1 week ago
Lmfao
Izaak247 2 weeks ago
Socialism, communism, capitalism- all outdated systems that use money. What we need is a system that utalises science and technology, one that is fair and equal. I advocate a resource based economic model! Check out 'The Zeitgeist movement' and 'The venus project' capitalism is crisis!
grayfoxv 2 weeks ago
I wonder how much Charlie was paid for this series?
YeahAndThat 1 month ago
@YeahAndThat Don't think that's really the point is it?
grayfoxv 2 weeks ago
0.20 cracks me up. Look at his face haha
IKilledElviss 1 month ago
Ye that's true
Izaak247 2 months ago
...To paraphrase Lord Jesus.
Williamsfan 3 months ago
I love the dogs perfect reaction lol.
IINesasta 3 months ago 7
what's that pretty tune heard in the back ground?
pipposback2 4 months ago
Money is a method of holding value, so that we do not have to find the people who have precisely what we want and need precisely what we can offer.
Tell me, in this future Communist utopia where money is done away with and we all live in harmony; who gets the Koh-i-Noor?
Lazyguy22 4 months ago
@Lazyguy22 - Without a money value, the Koh-I-Noor is just a pretty rock.
tipsydave 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@tipsydave You haven't answered my question.
Lazyguy22 4 months ago
@Lazyguy22 Money does away with the "coincidence of wants" which has to be pretty essential for any sophisticated society. All it really does is ease in the valuation and distribution of resources, so surely it is the allocation of the resources themselves which is the problem. And before anyone says "yeah, but what about the banks..." well that is another problem with the system, not money itself.
RH98 3 months ago
Money is just a symbol of effort. Without it we would just choose some other rare knick knack that is hard to replicate and assign it arbitrary value based on that rarity. We are a capitalistic species. We have been since the first man went out with a spear, killed an animal, dragged it back to the cave, and gave it to his wife in exchange for children. Or traded it to a fellow tribesman for a second spear. Supply, demand, even children trade - comes to us, naturally.
Cajaquarius 4 months ago
money has had more positive effects on the world than it has had negative
dripdripdrippird 4 months ago
Money is shit
EXetoC 4 months ago
Yeah let's go back to bartering!!
way2tehdawn 4 months ago
@way2tehdawn We don't need to return to bartering.A free access society with production for use to satisfy all human needs, is possible with the removal of the capitalist class.A society with the organising tenet of," from each according to their ability to each according to their needs" is entirely feasible.The only thing holding it back is apolitically aware majority to opt for it and work towards this goal.
prolerat 1 month ago
Suddenly Armando Ianucci is writing Brooker's material?
philosophiste 4 months ago
The dog was brilliant :D
crazytosh1 5 months ago
@USMCpatriot1000 is that a street name for barbiturates?
GlengarryGlennBeck 7 months ago
@USMCpatriot1000 what drugs do you take before you read history books?
GlengarryGlennBeck 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
"ooh you've got one more than me I'm gonna stab you in the ribs. thats what money is"
i thought thats what socialism was
GlengarryGlennBeck 7 months ago
@GlengarryGlennBeck No... That is exactly what socialism is *not*. (in principal)
bobsobol 7 months ago 74
@bobsobol I wasn't talking about "in principal". If I wanted to know about "in theory" or "On paper" I would have asked a textbook.
GlengarryGlennBeck 7 months ago
@GlengarryGlennBeck hahaha, you fool.
alanthe2 3 months ago
@alanthe2 Haha, you have a blow-up doll of che guevara and you fuck it in the mouth every night.
GlengarryGlennBeck 2 months ago
@GlengarryGlennBeck No I don't, some nights it's Lenin, other nights it's Karl Marx depending on my need for beard. I'm looking forward to purchasing a blow up doll of Castro complete with dildo cigar...
alanthe2 2 months ago
@alanthe2 when you crowd of clowns give my original comment about socialism 5000 thumbs down, and then you just HAD to give the guy's "correction" comment 5000 thumbs up, it only shows how insecure you are and how my original comment obviously hit a nerve.
you guys are like a bunch of little rabid chihuahaus all fighting over who gets to hump charlie brooker's leg. you make me vomit
GlengarryGlennBeck 2 months ago
@GlengarryGlennBeck So, you're upset that your comment didn't get thumbed up?
And you're upset that the other guys comment did?
Why are you so jealous? Jealous people are insecure so I suppose we should welcome you into our "Crowd of Clowns"..........face paint optional....nah just kidding, some lefty will definitely jizz on your face....
alanthe2 2 months ago
@alanthe2 "So, you're upset that your comment didn't get thumbed up?"
Yes I'm very upset that I didnt get approval from The Professional Fire Extinguisher Chuckers Guild. It was devastating to my self esteem.
GlengarryGlennBeck 2 months ago
@GlengarryGlennBeck I know I can tell. Your self esteem is most likely at its lowest considering how you include every comment with an insult.
Is that how you were treated as a child? Nothing you ever did or have done has ever been acknowledged by anyone.
and now you come onto the internet and rage about it "waaah, my comment didn't get 5000 thumbs up but the other guy did waaah, you guys are all twats because of it"
It's ok mate, one day you'll say something and someone will agree, one day...
alanthe2 2 months ago
@alanthe2 wait, of course, you're a fawning imbecilic leftie, that obviously means you're also a 3 year old last word freak... how could I forget
keep going, man-who-bid-500-quid-for-a-tissue-with-charlie-brookers-hand-sweat-absorbed-in-it-from-an-xbox-controller-at-a-celebrity-gamers-convention.
GlengarryGlennBeck 2 months ago
@alanthe2 You are the one who is clearly unfulfilled and miserable. Anyone would be when they spend half their life wanking off over a colossally flawed dreamy ideology whose only notable "achievement" is the death of hundreds of millions of "dissenters" in various regimes worldwide.
GlengarryGlennBeck 2 months ago
@alanthe2 Additionally you based your last 100 comments in this comment box on the mischaracterisation that I was "unhappy" and "jealous" not to receive 50 thumbs up from people who think the movie "V for Vendetta" is the height of human achievement when I was just laughing at how overzealously you feel the need to "thumbs down" the one single person in the entire continent of Europe who dares not to join in the giant juvenile circle wank over the works of the angry self hating Jew Karl Marx.
GlengarryGlennBeck 2 months ago
@GlengarryGlennBeck I'm quite pleased I got three comments for the price of one, I like to read. Are you going to write me an essay on the politics of GlengarryGlennBeck after this? Please do, I love comedy.
You exaggerate a lot and the more you do it, the further from the truth you become. You also assume things and we all know the saying about those who assume. It's ok, I assumed too so I guess we're both asses.
You seem to confuse socialism with communism but hey, we all make mistakes.
alanthe2 2 months ago
@alanthe2 Saying "You got socialism confused with Communism" is like saying "You got crack addiction confused with meth addiction" - they're both at the bottom of the barrel of humanity, so only someone with the most insipid mindset would feel the need to make a big deal out of the distinction.
GlengarryGlennBeck 2 months ago
@GlengarryGlennBeck I'm finding it hard to take anything you say seriously, I should have known better than to engage in a discussion on YouTube with someone who thought it was a good idea to include "Glenn Beck" in their username.
So I concede my friend, you win, socialism is crack and communism is meth and they're all bad for our health. We're all clowns for thinking there might be something better than what we have now and you are the pillar of rational thought in Europe.
Good Luck.
alanthe2 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@alanthe2 "I'm finding it hard to take anything you say seriously"
I know. If it doesnt sound liek something a 77yo crusty left wing alchoholic radio 4 comedian wud say, it cant possibly have any legitimuceeeee! Liek, at allz!
"We're all clowns for thinking there might be something better than what we have now "
"WE'RE JUST LIEK, TRYING TO CHANGE THINGS FOR THE BETTER D00D! GULAGS ARE JUST, LIEK, THE HOPIEST, CHANGIEST WAY TO THE INTELLECTUAL SUPERFUTURE OR SOMETHING! JON STEWART IS KEWL!"
GlengarryGlennBeck 2 months ago
@alanthe2 You're fucking hilarious, you fucking intellectual equivalent of a dying maggot that's been half-crushed under a gardener's boot.
You start off all mouthy then you end with "BUT DUDE, WE'RE JUST *SNIFF* TRYING TO LIKE, MAKE THE WORLD *SNIFF* A BETTER PLACE *SOB SOB SOB*
Good luck at the oscars you fucking wet cunt.
GlengarryGlennBeck 2 months ago
@GlengarryGlennBeck Do you write similes for Jeremy Clarkson? If you don't, you should. As for being mouthy, I think I called you a "fool" and an "ass" both of which are true and only moderately describe what an aggressive, narrow minded individual you are
Yes, my last comment was weak, you like men to be men and that's your choice but theres nothing wrong with a "fucking wet cunt" once in a while.
Perhaps if you found one (other than me of course) this would be over already.
alanthe2 1 month ago
@alanthe2 I stopped reading after you used 'simile' instead of 'metaphor'...
rugbynut 1 month ago
@rugbynut ahh well, we all make mistakes...
alanthe2 1 month ago
@GlengarryGlennBeck Whats wrong with socialism?
JimothyMcgee 1 month ago
@JimothyMcgee How much time do you have?
GlengarryGlennBeck 1 month ago
@GlengarryGlennBeck one youtube comments worth of reading?
JimothyMcgee 1 month ago
@JimothyMcgee Ok. You wouldn't listen anyway. I can tell.
GlengarryGlennBeck 1 month ago
@GlengarryGlennBeck try me
JimothyMcgee 1 month ago
@GlengarryGlennBeck
The distinction between socialism and communism is a very important one. Communism has never worked on a large scale, socialism DOES work in most European countries. The UK, where I live, is a social democracy. Regulated competition is allowed, but our schools, healthcare and various other things are paid for by the state. It works very nicely indeed.
nashertheatheist 1 month ago
@nashertheatheist Very nicely. Unless you want to see a doctor who speaks English and won't sew you up with his blackberry accidentally left inside you.
GlengarryGlennBeck 1 month ago
@GlengarryGlennBeck
Every doctor I have ever met has spoken English. Every treatment I have had (including several operations) has gone smoothly. Yes, there are some horror stories, but they do not accurately represent the NHS as a whole.
nashertheatheist 1 month ago
@nashertheatheist Every doctor you've ever met spoke English? Even if you're not lying that still doesn't prove anything. You're just one person.
Btw, how do you like paying for your dentistry twice? Once through taxes, then again at the point of use because some ghoulish NHS administrator pilfered the money to spend on whiskey and orgies in his posh Pimlico flat with Swedish rent boys?
GlengarryGlennBeck 1 month ago
@GlengarryGlennBeck
True, my account is anecdotal evidence so not valid. But recent laws now ensure all doctors speak English (source: Daily Mail, 4th October 2011) so I will point you to that.
Dentistry: I like it better than if I had to live in some right-shifted hellhole like the US. There's a reason they're 37th in the world for health (worse than Morroco, Chile and Dominica). We get a better deal than we would under a privatised system. A MUCH better deal.
nashertheatheist 1 month ago
Socialism = common ownership and democratic control of all the means and instruments for creating and distributing wealth by and in the interests of all.Communism means the same.There is no difference from a world Socialist Movement perspective.We have never had socialism or communism anywhere.It is a post-capitalist - free access society.Wages and prices are abolished and distribution is according to self determined needs.
prolerat 1 month ago
@prolerat
Indeed. I agree that such societies have not yet existed (at least, not on the large scale). I believe that the principles are wonderful in theory and would create a utopia if effected properly. But I'm not convinced that society in its current form is capable of maintaining a socialist state. I would be more than willing to live in such a country, and could live by the necessary rules quite easily. But there are enough people who wouldn't, who would destabilise it or lead it astray.
nashertheatheist 1 month ago
@prolerat
Society in its current form is not capable of running a TRUE socialist state, anyway. When I have used it in these comments, I have been referring to the conventional, widely-used term. Which is actually just slightly more regulated capitalism.
nashertheatheist 1 month ago
@nashertheatheist The point is to change society.It is a long term project organize consciously and politically for the conquest of the powers of government, national and local, in order that this machinery, including these forces, may be converted from an instrument of oppression into the agent of emancipation and the overthrow of privilege, aristocratic and plutocratic.
prolerat 1 month ago
@nashertheatheist Ultimately there would not be any state.The whole idea is real democracy and this would be a global response to global capitalism
prolerat 1 month ago
@prolerat
How would decision-making be done? Say if there was an overpopulation problem looming, and a few people decided they wanted to establish colonies on Ganymede and Callisto. Someone would have to direct resources to building these colonies, and ships to transport people there. It would be no small undertaking and without a state, things might be difficult to manage effectively.
nashertheatheist 1 month ago
@nashertheatheist Decisions would be made ,locally regionally,globally.The difference is it would be real participatory democracy with recallable delegates, a part of the whole, rather than an administration 'over' the populace.It would be an administration of things by the populace.With no classes, either elite groups or powerful economic classes the state essentially 'withers away'(Engels) as its co-ercive nature is dismantled on the way to the revolution.It is 'the' revolution.No come-back.
prolerat 1 month ago
@nashertheatheist You're such a tedious man. That's what makes arguing with you so hard. Not any actual intellect. Same goes for all of you pathetic EU-worshipping left wing studenty types.
I'm telling you, if you could see what your university history professor who obviously taught you everything you "know" did on weekends to kidnapped 5 year old boys while dressed up as Bertrand Russell, you wouldn't be so fond of him.
Or maybe you would, who knows.
GlengarryGlennBeck 1 month ago
@GlengarryGlennBeck
I... what? I'm sorry, what I just read was the most incomprehensible jumble of hilarious bile I've read so far this week.
Not being content to make a n attack against me, you also decided to accuse my non-existent history lecturer of being a paedophile.
I'm happy to wait until you actually address anything I, y'know, actually said. Get a cup of tea, calm down and then maybe come back and talk about it like a grown-up.
nashertheatheist 1 month ago
@GlengarryGlennBeck I'm still waiting on why socialism is bad btw
JimothyMcgee 1 month ago
Comment removed
MistaMase102 2 months ago
@thejackroller I don't think it's necessary to believe in a "soul" recognise that ethical and moral decisions cannot be made logically, and probably *should* not be made scientifically.
I agree, we can only guess what a dolphin might say if it could, and "up there" is about right.
Many great civilisations and empires where built with no apparent need of money, and most faiths teach that worldly wealth is not the way to gain spiritual satisfaction. (what-ever term they choose to give that)
bobsobol 9 months ago
@bobsobol They may preach it for the faithful punters, but they don't practice it for their institutions, which mainly (some exceptions) support the dominant ideologies for the purpose of reproducing their dominance.
prolerat 1 month ago
Would you like to see a world without money? Look up The Venus Project.
PeterJohnBarfield 9 months ago 8
@PeterJohnBarfield A good recommendation for others, but I have already investigated their attempts.
My current feeling is that they are working against a global capitalist backdrop. For their plans to succeed in the current climate, they will need the initial backing of wealthy patrons... and few such people exist.
"It is easier to fit a camel through they eye of a needle.."
The alternative method is a violent uprising of the downtrodden. Violent uprisings usually lead to violent leadership.
bobsobol 9 months ago 18
@bobsobol Grassroots social structures with more substance and usefulness than bake-sales and reggae soundsystem nights. You can have organisation without the extreme inequality and elitism of the present system, and it starts at grassroots level and now with violent revolution, which just begets more violence.
Capitalist sponsorship generally corrupts even when it is relatively well-intentioned. The donors want a say in how things are done, and they carry their elite assumptions with them.
FrogmortonHotchkiss 2 months ago
@FrogmortonHotchkiss **NOT** with violent revolution I meant, dammit.
FrogmortonHotchkiss 2 months ago
@bobsobol "It is easier to fit a camel through they eye of a needle..".. it's unusual to hear someone quote that as a warning about people in this life rather than instructions for getting to the next. Kudos.
jacksawild 2 months ago
@PeterJohnBarfield Hear hear!
smatta1 5 months ago
@PeterJohnBarfield
Do you want to live on an unstable island, in unstable oceans, surrounded by unstable people? Look up the Venus Project.
BinaryBunyip 4 months ago
@PeterJohnBarfield ... had a mate who got reall heavily involved with the Zeitgeist movement... didn't like me asking too many questions and got quite aggressive... he started to use personal insults against me and turned me against the whole project. The Venus Project is for hippies living in 'la la land' and goes against the whole idea of basic social cohesion. Human social conditions involves 'winners' and 'losers'... The Venus Project says that they can only be winners. It's a load of shit!
dethbydisco 4 months ago
@PeterJohnBarfield It seems to me that a resource based economy would retard technological progress to a dangerous level (our most important type of progress as it gets us off of this tomb before the inevitable death of this planet occurs). War, greed, ambition, they are all negative but carry a positive benefit of driving technology forward. The rockets we got to the moon on started as V2 rockets used by Nazis to kill the English citizens, for example. Our ultimate goal is avoiding extinction.
Cajaquarius 4 months ago
@Cajaquarius You can't have technological progress without those things? Talk about being ignorant.
EXetoC 3 months ago
@PeterJohnBarfield to be honest the venus project is very very very wooly, its an idea made up by few people, in an attempt to change the thinking of the entire globe into one of peace unity and against greed... nice idea, but it only takes one person to fuck it up, and then its completely fucked up
MistaMase102 2 months ago
@thejackroller "Biologically and socially, humans have greater capacity for thought than any other animal currently living" I strongly disagree with that. (not in all cases, but I could list examples if I had space)
I believe the written word, and opposable thumbs is what set us on the thrown.
But my "argument" is a spiritual, and emotional one, not a logical one. "Enlightenment" is a spiritual concept, not easily assessed logically. And "logic" is not the only test of intelligence.
bobsobol 10 months ago
I will not accept personal insults, or insults to considerate commentators here.
If you don't understand sarcasm, you should not be watching Charlie Brooker.
However, the insulting comment I have removed by terminegget clearly proved that (s)he (he, I presume) is considerably less intelligent than a carrot, and far less enlightened than a Hyena... Politely. ;)
bobsobol 11 months ago 32
@bobsobol If you're going to take on that challenge, then you'd best look at some of them ost recent shitshrieks occupying your comment section at the moment.
451harri 2 months ago
Brooker at his finest. Bring back bartering!
I liked the dog. In a strange way it's more clever than we can ever be.
MrTrungo 1 year ago 2
@MrTrungo Er, no it isn't.
But A for effort at trying to be profound.
terminegger 1 year ago
@terminegger Most other mammals, some avians and piscine, not to mention many vegetables are not only far superior to mankind in terms of their enlightened spirit, but are also far more intelligent.
The reason we cannot classify them as such, is our own argent scale of "intelligence" which is entirely based upon "human" intellect.
For example, and intelligent species would not consider utilising fossil fuel, because it's clearly too dangerous. Only an idiot would fail to see that.
bobsobol 11 months ago
Profound.
97channel 1 year ago