@ignbtd you can calle it leftwing boiler plating and I can just come back and call anything you say is just rightwing boiler plating....and the game will continue into infinity.
@ignbtd Yes, because obviously you are at the level of intelligence of which you can try to discredit my entire statement by implicating that I don't understand basic grammar, and compositions. Or that I don't actually study linguistics, and that I use word site tools. You do all this, when in actuality, you appear acrimoniously bitter. Your lack of understanding is why you find my comment vague. But, to unfounded reasons, you still feel the need to label my assertions as a dense expletive.
@ignbtd Unfortunately for your fallacious perverse logical argument, there is already evident proof of states contracting after stagnating the demand side with spending cuts, whilst redistributing it to corporations with tax cuts. You see, your reciprocal causality is that saving has its limits, and corporations have far exceeded such constraints. Currency must circulate within all castes of an economy in order to generate growth, and that has not even happened with a repatriation of 5%.
@kryflam Save?? Don't you mean hoard? And the bubble burst hoarding of the top percentages has just been so wonderful for the global economy over this past decade. The bubble burst have created more wealth than what existed before the 1980's. So you are very mistaken to say that it shrunk do to spending. In fact, contrary to conservative belief. Cutting spending is what causes economic contraction, and heavy job losses. Middle class consumption increases demand, which in turn creates jobs.
The American economy has NOT doubled in size. It has contracted in real terms. Before you blame "the rich", blame the government for running up staggering debts and driving business out of the country.
heh, havent u people ever heard of "trickle down"? when you cut taxes for the wealthier smarter folks, they will use that extra money to invest in businesses that can hire more people... MEANING MORE JOBS. if you dont cut taxes for the men who understand business, well then your fucked and end up a third world country
The businesses are flush with cash and aren't hiring people because there isn't a demand because people don't have money
So what do they do? Raise wages? No...Hire? No...Pay shareholders? No...
Pay themselves gargantuan bonuses and use that money to buy back stock? You betcha
But hey, trickle down economics has been disproven so many times that it's close to a religious belief with you people so don't let evidence get in your way
Guys used to have only high school diploma and were able to maintain a family with some kids, a stay at home mom, a paid out house, a second vacation property, a couple of cars and all the goods they needed. They went to vacation and were considered 'ugly Americans' - a colloquialism for 'ugly RICH Americans'.
They did it WITHOUT consumer borrowing. They made the money and had enormous purchasing power - had private insurance and health care, all without debt.
6. The actual middle class sans government intervention exists without borrowing for consumer spending. This entire argument is Keynesian shamanism - pretense that purchasing power depends on one's ability to BORROW MONEY?
No.
One's ability to spend depends on one's productivity - production capacity. If one is not producing, then one cannot spend. Consumer debt should not exist and would not exist without gov't intervention into the economy.
Of-course there should be no difference between capital gains and other forms of income taxes, they all need to be 0% of income.
4. Gov't should not be spending any money on anything beyond minimum military protection and the justice system. All other spending needs to disappear completely, so this entire premise that gov't must provide services is false. Gov't needs to shrink, to disappear.
5. The public vs private, etc.etc. - as opposed to what? Communism?
3. Effective tax rates never went over 20%, nobody is stupid to work for 5 cents on a dollar, as top tax brackets used to be (95% at some point). People could deduct almost everything. Today anybody with good income should be smart enough to avoid almost all gov't taxes, as they should. Gov't should not be growing, it needs to disappear.
Before 1971 USD had gold value. Once US defaulted on the promise to pay gold for dollar money started flowing out, so there could be no high taxes
1. Since 1980 US economy was falling steadily, but as USD was printed steadily (1971 gold shock), the prices were going up. Economy was shrinking, since gov't was growing, but prices were going up, true inflation was underreported and they equated consumer debt spending with growing economy, which it was not, because US was losing jobs, not gaining them.
2. Gov't created the 'super rich' and gave them the money in form of 'stimulus', free money and bail outs and gov't contracts (wars, etc)
@FerrariSorry it's already sinking. 2012 may dow/gold = 2.0 and once that happens the entire stock market is going to shudder as the ratio potentially drops harder. We may see 5000 to 15000 Dow but we may see 5000 to 25000 / oz gold. per OUNCE. That means paper money will cease to be money and all your savings & income go to zero instantly. INSTANTLY TO ZERO.
@TsugaruClan how can a business lay off people and count the profits? How can a business do so, suffer no losses in the long run, then act like those jobs were efficient? It would be better if they innovated enough they upgraded jobs rather than firing people but maybe some businesses just can not magically improve everything they do & simply size downward once they are established.
@ytgv3fc7 And the remaining employees are paid less to do more work. And the executives are stuffing their own pockets with more millions. Downsizing in a recession (or a depression), I understand. But rewarding executives for "saving the company money" by laying off hundreds? Beyond ridiculous. And just plain greedy, cold and heartless. I just heard recently of a top exec who doubled his salary and received more than a million in bonuses. His business? Newspapers! That dying industry.
@TsugaruClan it can be ridiculous but it's up to us to refuse to use any money or work to support them when we catch them in the act. The lay-offs need to balance the excess work no one needs done. The company should suffer when they cut too deep. We should make them suffer.
@ytgv3fc7 "people have a right to save up for their children & grand-children"
I am not talking about rights here. You seem to think rights and greed are mutually exclusive.
In the civil war era a white person had the right to own a slave. Now I bet you will agree that it was the result of greed. Our rights continuously change and evolve which should, as our thinking evolve if we are to survive.
"That's survival of the family lineage." = darwinism... which is blatant explanation for greed.
O really? If believe in darwinian society "treason" shouldn't be part of your vocabulary buddy, since there is no such thing as fair rules. And cops and banks aren't bad guys...they are just apex predators.
Either you don't know what you are talking about or just trolling.
Either way I don't want to waste my time with you. This would be my last reply to you.
@lasku0007 Quite wrong: in Darwinian society we call out treason faster than ever & end it in executions promptly & keep the line rolling until it's done with.
This efficiently evolves a society in which treason is vastly reduced. It's horseshit nonsense to act as if treason wouldn't exist in a Darwinian society. It's a first order of business to execute those guilty of treason
@TTEchidna when I was $12 I remember seeing stacks of $1000 bills (Canadian) in front of me. A deep purple-brown. We don't use those anymore. Anyhow my gold bars are worth more than that now & will not drop. Paper isn't even real money, it's peasant-tokens. Silver &especially gold are real money; diamonds are not but rarity of naturals appeals to the elite. I know they can be made perfect $5/karat so I value them at that price.
@carygoleman it makes perfect sense - you want to ensure your children & grandchildren are taken care of and I imagine they are doing so while also investing in companies, farms, mines, to ensure things keep operating as they profit from each such event / condition.
@carygoleman without inheritance many people would be homeless & poor. Inheritance is how poor people stop their kids from being even poorer if there's anything at all to give. But yes, local investing is very ideal. I hope one day to have enough to be able to do so. Bee-keeping, I think, but we'll see what else turns up. The bees are very important for our food supply.
@lasku0007 for the super-rich adding a billion in equivalent wealth-resources means income flow for the future, it means that in the future even if horrifying things happen to a currency, a nation, a few companies, an entire industry, that their savings do not go to zero. Much as they might think a billion is worth if a currency like the euro or USD fails it can go to zero in approximately 10 minutes. That's right, 10 minutes. Smart ones are getting gold & rarities (we have no use for)
@iamLI3 unfortunately the zeitgeist fraud wants you to lie to yourself and enslave yourself to a central computer controlling all global resources. This is global robotic communism: you have no law, no rights, no freedom, only what the computer says is efficient under the central control of the few programmers. It's not de-centralized. It's not respecting individual rights to ownership or production or trade. It's evil. Sorry, it fails
@iamLI3 Yes I recognize your name. I questioned why we need central control when decentralized control is cheaper & more secure. I questioned why we would have circle cities when having less cities of any sort would be more safe for nature. Farm towers require impossibly strong materials that do not exist, using rare elements we can't afford to use for that. Gold is money: paper is only debt. Remember me now? When I asked the hard questions I was called a robot then banned.
@iamLI3 wrong movie - that's the zeitgeist fraud - the actual truth is anything telling you commodities (resources) are real money (gold, silver, copper, etc) and nothing else. This is the one true solution. Paper is not money, it's debt. Debt is not money ever. Money is the root of no problems: it's the solution that saves us all. You just never saw it before. If you only ever held paper in your hands you have no touched or seen money once in your life. It's gold coins. Silver coins.
@iamLI3 depends on the metal: if it's silver I can make bandages or solder or paint or circuits. If it's gold I can make metallic cushions that hold shape but have give, again electronics all apply. Both are highly reflective. Gold is also a proton deflector (radiation shielding). Gold can't rust: sadly there's so little of it we can't just plate everything with gold to keep it secure from the elements.
@BizWiz2000 Taxes are already too high. The services returned for them are too low & this trend shows no sign of changing. Drop taxes until the return vs tax-revenue is a better ratio.
@BizWiz2000 but raising taxes in a recession or depression will murder the entire economy. People will be forced to leave work or leave the country and that will be a huge damage worse than cutting taxes.
@ytgv3fc7 Of course you would raise them after the recession and there will be an even bigger deficit by the time the recession is over (thanks to a largely ineffective stimulus early in the recession). You would also raise them on the rich more than everyone else, probably raise it by 5-10% for top income earners. An estate tax and raising the retirement age would also help. Cutting the military by 15-20% probably wouldn't weaken it. Its the little 5%-20% increases/decreases that help the most
@BizWiz2000 after, not before, but only carefully. Currently most tax revenue is abusively spent on black-ops projects and abusively most of the spending total is from debt not from taxes, so everything is built on promises that can't be kept and secrets that never should be secret. Cut the military 80% and that will help much better than 20%. It's the big 80% cuts which help the most. If you can't do it the recession stays forever. I mean 200 years to the point where USA = doesn't exist anymore
@ytgv3fc7 Most tax revenue doesn't go to 'black-ops' projects. Google 'death and taxes poster' to get an idea of what amount of money is spent on black ops. But yes, lots of spending comes from debt. But if you cut 80% of the military budget alot of troops and maintenance workers stationed overseas would suddenly find themselves unemployed, there would be less income for national guards, and alot of factory workers (in the US) updating the capital stock of the military would become unemployed
@BizWiz2000 more than 1 trillion a year goes to black ops projects. Most of the expenditure of the USA is on military per year period. Those returning from the killing fields may very well have both money AND innovations in mind - you are forgetting the ability to start new business or take the family abroad forever for a better life. Some won't do it but some will. They have traveled enough to see which other safe-places their bases were to know it's good to live (e.g. Germany)
@ytgv3fc7 A trillion a year doesn't go to black ops. Look at wikipedia, the congressional budget office, the death and taxes poster, and many many other sources to confirm that. I already know you will probably retort by saying that the main stream media and the government and the illuminati are lying to me (so don't waste your time). But have you ever questioned that the people saying that a trillion dollars a year go to black ops are lying? Before you question others, question yourself first.
@BizWiz2000 when you add up all the operations in South America, in the Middle East and that includes keeping all the aircraft carriers running AND all their support ships, a trillion a year is a drop in the bucket. I was rounding down. They are all in support roles for the black ops for drop-points, supplies & pick-up otherwise most black ops people would be hitch-hiking, hi-jacking & James-Bonding it between dispatches - they are not. They are using the imperial forces.
In the case of the US, we can point to a number of important acts of financial deregulation that were the direct causes of the crisis:
(1) Repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act (1999)
In the US, the Glass-Steagall Act, initially created in the wake of the Stock Market Crash of 1929, prohibited banks from both accepting deposits and underwriting securities. This led to segregation of investment banks from commercial banks.
@TruthAndMoreTruth weak sauce reply. If you vote for the bad guy you are part of the problem not the solution. Non-voting is an admirable outcome: you are absolutely 100% not at fault for the crimes of the people you refused to vote for. It's time to pack up & leave or have a civil war. You will vote yourself into gitmo at this rate.
@TruthAndMoreTruth voting won't fix this - you can't get a good candidate in for any party - you are done. JFK was the death of your country. Your nation should have risen up and lynched the killers in government but did not. That was the end.
@Crowbarazar indeed, it's not too late but much time has passed - in the last 10 years holding gold & silver to turn back into fiat paper on demand or to trade directly for high value goods like a car or a house would do it. You probably have 10 years left of gains, maybe 5, if you get in to gold and/or silver now. Delivery is important: if it's not in your hand it's not yours. I also play the paper games like options & etf's but it's super-risky
@TheTruthNJ09 not just any debt, the one kind of American debt that bankruptcy law will not allow to be reduced or slowed in payment for any reason. Ever.
@ohgrx it's too late. Your idea would be perfect 10 years ago. It's just too late now. Those jobs can't ever return, prices can not equalize, factories have been shut down too long, equipment sold, people out of work who lost their skills, new people not entering a factory work environment having no ability to train / learn except from scratch.
@genrlcvr if you really want to tax luxuries you can't just slap taxes on things to steal the money - you should invest / own the production of those luxuries so you can jack up the prices. The elite esteem will push them to buy since they are rich, they wouldn't want to say "oh that price is too high" because then they're not elite. They'll pay. Then it's profit not theft. They'll know the deal but they'll pay.
@ytgv3fc7 What the hell are you talking about, as if "owning the production of luxuries" is an actual real-world option for the non-rich. Sure, who would _not_ "choose" that if it were a real choice? The point is the non-rich don't have the money to "own production," they _need_ to use most of their paycheck to _live._ The real "theft" is not through progressive taxation, but through sucking all the value of labor through obscene profit by the owners, who mostly inherit not earn their fortune.
@genrlcvr I think you misunderstood me. Make it so GOVERNMENT seizes production of luxuries and so the profit collected directly is the tax taken from the rich spending like that for status. Then no business in the middle providing luxuries feels their business is hurt by a tax; their business privately ceases to exist. It's merely an idea, not something I would push. The non-rich DO indeed have, can get by savings, the money to own production. It's a myth it can't be done.
@genrlcvr those who live just barely with enough in pay to buy food are not the "non-rich" they are a smaller category of "poor". There's non-rich + non-poor people who run small businesses & invest using savings. The anti-theft device of taking from labour by exploitation is to refuse to work & no strikes - just QUIT and tell everyone the owner is a thief/exploiter. It will kill that business.
@ytgv3fc7 Yeah, this distinction between non-rich and poor is becoming less and less meaningful, and will likely become rapidly less meaningful as the upcoming harsh austerity bill comes through. Right _now_ 25% of kids live in poverty in this supposedly first-world country. Look, even the middle-income folk who have some money to spare aren't going to be able to take "ownership" of anything compared to the rich; get real. And the non-rich can't "QUIT" without probably going homeless, etc.
@genrlcvr The non-rich who aren't the poorest can immigrate. The poorest also can but it's harder. It's the new reality: flee the sinking ship while you're above water
@ytgv3fc7 Believe me, if I could obtain citizenship/career-continuance in a country like Norway, Australia, even Canada I would leave in half-a-heartbeat. But that's not a real-world option, for 99.9% of the non-rich, otherwise you'd be seeing _mass_ emigration from this stupid country.
@genrlcvr supremely poor people immigrate around the world all the time. Some people are so defeatist they do not comprehend how to actually move and get things done without money. Anyhow the ones who aren't that bright or motivated we don't want anyways so just don't let them in on this whole "just walk across the border" business. Send them to Mexico's border to "fight for their country" or something so they keep occupied in irony
@Iconf10 owning is only a leverage point. What you own allows you to harvest incoming wealth on a constant basis in a flowing system which is always moving. It's not the money that's moving, it's you. Your physical work, your movement from place to place - if you live, if you breathe, your energy can be harvested. This is farmville for the real mafia not mafia wars for people bored of farmville.
@kwb70652 there's still time left. Collect what you can in money as gold & silver coins or bars - ignore numismatic value you want it by weight. It's inflation-proof in these crisis periods which repeat every 30 years.
@UserXer0 only if it's the right kind - if it's the kind with no central control, no paper money, no dictatorship of any sort and only voluntary action to assist one group using another group we're OK. If it's the other kind, central control, confiscation of property/assets to feed "the poor" and so on - no, that's evil slavery and must be killed on sight using all the guns in the universe immediately.
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To all of you lapping this up like dogs Robert Reich does not cite A SINGLE SOURCE in this video which as anyone who passed the 5th grade should know makes this as informative as expired pudding.
The facts he use are so well known and easily verified that he doesn't need to cite sources, besides which, he is purposely trying to keep the video short which a long list of sources would preclude. Sorry, the video is very informative and succinct, no wonder Right-wingers hate it.
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Wrong, wrong! America outsorced so much of our manufacturing to China and India creating a huge demand for german equipment used in manufacturing which accounts for the exports driving the german economy!
germany has been technologically advanced for a long time. education is very important but attitudes and the makeup of the population is the key. here America fails
not to worry, America has far more lawyers, athletes, singers, actors,...and community organizers! haha
yeah lets blame china and india. your outsource because it seems american is not as well trained in most high end jobs. Corporations have your balls. and all you can do is be manipulated by the tea-knobbers. all your patriotism lies in whining and demonizing your own citizens. there is easy out but participating in democracy. crying wolf does does nothing and convinces no one that the tea-lickers can do anything. Why? because you still remain conflicted of an idea that you know whats better.
The whole video is a pack of lies. How the economy grows determines the effect it has on wages. If we had an industrial based economy, then doubling would have increased wages. However, our economy is more than industrial. It is also HIGH TECH now, which means workers have to be EDUCATED!
@CommonSenseJoe the effect on wages is always negative as jobs are shipped away from the continent. You can't have an industrial based economy, not if you plan to have a global economy. It's one or the other, not both. You can't compete with China, Germany or Japan's past - though Japan's been knocked down for a century thanks to Fukushima.
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@ytgv3fc7 No one "ships" jobs overseas. Jobs end when the company can no longer produce their products HERE at a competitive price. The worth of a simple pair of hands or a strong back is inclining and has been for decades. Unions could have been part of the solution, but choose to be part of the problem.
@CommonSenseJoe that's nonsense - jobs are shipped overseas well in advance of any losses or problems by each company involved. It has nothing to do with a competitive price, it has to do with stealing. The prices are competitive for sale & labour - I've seen it myself - it's just a matter of stealing that much more work from a person using force & central-bank control and putting it into CEO bonuses. I've watched it start to finish to confirm. Unions are the true solution, no problem at all.
@CommonSenseJoe central banks collude to force a wage to be lower in purchasing power in another nation, then corporations collude with central banks to steal everyone's labour via slavery via inflation via paper money to force a trade deficit gradient. Then jobs are shipped in advance of any market activity reflecting any change of prices, profits, losses. It's all intentional manipulation from the first microsecond. Finally jobs are stopped in the old country with no need.
@CommonSenseJoe the end result is that the products are not cheaper, the investment into product efficiency (of production and/or innovation) does not increase and the total extra capital gained by stealing from workers (paying them less, using force to ensure they will take it or be bombed for being communist as Vietnam was bombed) this total bonus goes right into executive salary - not company profits, not dividends, not cheaper prices not improved products.
@ytgv3fc7 Wrong again. Lower costs do not ALWAYS translate into hire executive salaries. Companies have competitors. People have the freedom to choose. That is the way our system works. US automakers made crappy cars and charged outrageous prices for them. Foreign car companies made a better product, at a cheaper price. The market forced US car companies to improve. This whole concept of demonizing some group for "making too much money" is flawed. Government is the problem, not the rich
competition is really only relevent if there are many competitors. right now most big businesses only have 1-2 maybe three competitor. thus they can keep the extra money for themselves on the basis that they are offering something that the other isnt.
there is very little difference between big business and big govt. mostly sense big business got the big govt elected in the first place.
@Crazylalalalala Not true, even one competitor keeps a company in line. Who competes with the government? There is a BIG difference between BIG government and BIG business. One produces wealth, jobs, and economic activity. Government produces nothing but lazy people who live off entitlements.
@CommonSenseJoe not true. A single competitor can not and will not keep a company in line ever. They collude & rape the consumers together. Only by forming your own business that is their supplier and destroying their supply-line can you force their prices down again.
@ytgv3fc7 That means you become a competitor. Businesses do this ALL THE TIME when the government gets out of the way. If prices get too high, consumers will use less or stop using it all together. Someone will invest their own money and find a new, better, and more efficient way to do it. The market will always correct such situations if the government is not controling the market.
@CommonSenseJoe no,wrong. If you control a supply-line you are not a competitor. You are a supplier. Competitors use the same resources & have the same markets. Suppliers do NOT. I am not in your market, you are a seller and have a market. But you are MY customer, I am not yours; I can destroy you by cutting off what you need. Russia controls Europe in this way via gas lines; yet they are NOT competing for the same markets. You need to think. Suppliers are NOT competitors.
@CommonSenseJoe in this way markets can NEVER be self-correcting because no market today allows this supply-line cut-off at a level which promotes anything but slavery. The current market system is criminal and violence must be used to stop it. No one with their own money will find anything: they will be robbed & enslaved as soon as they even expose they have money to invest. Get armed, ensure all money is gold & silver, be ready to shoot and to barter and immigrate.
@CommonSenseJoe then you don't know what a market even is if you think I'm wrong. People competing to sell apples or wheat are not competitors with those selling the fertilizer or tractors to the farmers. Those are non-competing suppliers.
@ytgv3fc7 I know you are wrong. There is and can more competition today than ever before. The problem is that the government is always interfering in the market place, instead of promoting competition. There is nothing criminal about the market place. The crime is when the government uses it's power to pick the winners and losers in the economy.
@CommonSenseJoe you know nothing of what you claim: small businesses are being trashed, workers are being trashed, only big corporations control everything and there are fewer of them than in the last 20 to 40 years because so many are actually holding companies or subsidiaries for single giant mega corporations like Disney or GE. Everything about this market place is insider trading, stealing and fraud - all criminal. This crime is 1 billion times the size of government's crime.
@CommonSenseJoe no, you do not. You fail to rob the rich because they have all the guns, then you fail to give the money to the poor because there's more poverty than you could feed with double the money and food in the world, and then you wake up & realize that was never the right thing to do. The right thing to do is find fraudsters & thieves, rich or poor, and KILL them. THIS solves the problem.
@ytgv3fc7 Really? Who is the one who determines who is a "fraudster"? You? How about the lazy people who collect welfare benefits when they could work? Are they "fraudsters"? How about the people who think that gives people something for nothing will end poverty? Are they "fraudsters"?
@CommonSenseJoe ABSOLUTELY ME. I am damn good at finding & proving fraud.
Anyone can join in the game, the more the merrier.
Lazy people refusing to work but claiming they can not, getting money for that, are also fraudsters and must be cut off IMMEDIATELY. Giving something for nothing to end poverty: FRAUD. Yes, stop it right now.
@CommonSenseJoe Then we are Norway. Norway has the same GDP per capita of USA but the quality of life of the average Norwegian is not comparable to the quality of life of the average american. Simple.
What a ludicrous piece of propaganda! The primary reason our real wages have declined is the intentional devaluation of the dollar by the Federal Reserve with tacit support of Democrats & Republicans alike through massive expansion of the money supply. They both used all the new money to fund big government programs to dole out social and corporate welfare to their "constituents". The government spends the new money before the devaluation effect occurs leaving the rest of us holding the bag.
Even when Democrats are in control of both congressional houses and the presidency, nothing happens to fix this problem. We stop sliding into the hole, but we gain no ground back. Progress has to begin at the street level; we all have to do this ourselves outside the influence of the corrupted parties. Learn to skills you need to resist, and make your voices heard. With art, music, just by spreading the word we can begin to take down corruption in the world.
Why can't more people in the US understand these simple facts?
The entire world is seeing you glide down faster and faster towards an economic meltdown that will make the crash of the late 20's seem like nothing. If the US is gonna keep going this way things will come to a head. And I am afraid violence is going to be involved.
I would not be surprised anymore if the US will have a second revolution/civil war within my lifespan if they keep going down this road. And the world still needs the USA
Let's not just complain about the loss from inflation and tax changes. Consider the costs of participants in our new BS tech society: new computer(s) every few years - $2,000; Internet connection - $40/ month; new cell phone every 3 years with web browsing ability: $70/ month/ phone. None of those costs applied in 1980, and they're what's bankrupting many of our citizens today. Just say no to unnecessary tech crap!
@ChipArgyle actually I worked for t-mobile and I'll tell you people who can't afford the bills just aren't paying them & the company spends huge dollars (public quarterly reports) on free phones + heavy discounts so you only pay by keeping your contract - which you'd pay bills to use your phone regardless if you bought it outright (most people will not do that). The idea is "regular profit streams" to ensure reportable income reliability (despite many in collections)
@ChipArgyle also while not chosen all the time there's cheap plans on prepaid with any company and with t-mobile you could get it to $20 to $25 / mo. I'm in Canada and I pay $25/mo for prepaid.
@AndrewMacedonia the rich don't fall unless you push them off their ivory towers
It's not the rich an and of itself who are the problem; rich or poor, it's the fraudsters, those who steal & destroy who are the problem. A poor man who's stolen a billion & spent it all is as guilty as a rich man who's stolen a billion & kept it all
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He's wrong. He's pushing a political agenda. Industry that used to generate wealth in the USA now sits in low wage countries. The owners are here in the USA. Their salaries are high because their companies are profitable. The wealthy are not the problem.
Top 1% pay 34% of taxes
Top 5% pay 54% "
Top 10% pay 66% "
Top 25% pay 84% "
Top 50% pay 97% "
Bottom 50% of wage-earners pay less than 4% of taxes.
Bottom 40% have a negative tax rate.
High wages in the USA are the problem. End Unions.
Problem is that you are just listing income taxes, when you include ALL taxes like payroll, sales, property, and other fees, ect, your list is shown to be skewed. Besides which as the top 1% own more than 40% of the wealth in the county they are still not paying their far share even only considering your skewed list.
"It is widely believed that taxes are highly progressive and, furthermore, that the top several percent of income earners pay most of the taxes received by the federal government. Both ideas are wrong because they focus on official, rather than "effective" tax rates and ignore payroll taxes, which are mostly paid by those with incomes below $100,000 per year."
"In terms of types of financial wealth, the top one percent of households have 38.3% of all privately held stock, 60.6% of financial securities, and 62.4% of business equity." "Wealth, Income, and Power" by G. William Domhoff
The problem is not 'unions' Unions have made the middle class possible, the problem is the libertarian, and other 'trickle down crap that has been forced on us since about the Reagan era, and that since then has increased the level of disparity in this country. End the libertarian junk and return prosperity to this country.
@Rundstedt1 Forced on you? How come you didn't make any mention about the public? Why only blame the govenment? Since the Reagan adminsitration, the greedy public has lived way beyond their means and the govenment did not force them to do any of that. The economy was a ticking time bomb and in 2008 it finally expolded and the public has as much blame for it as the govenment.
@Rundstedt1 it's not Libertarian to tax the poor & absolve the rich. It's libertarian to tax no one. You aren't entitled to all the money others make, which is what you get if you're poor, paying little or no tax, getting services, and the rich pay them. That's not their fair share - they owe you nothing. On the other hand societal stability always is important, so if health care & policing, good roads, power-grids keep society stable then fund it using taxes.
The poor pay taxes also, as a matter of fact they pay a larger percentage of what they have than the rich, they pay sales, license fees, payroll deductions and other fees. The wealthy use more of the commons of this country it is only fair that they should pay more to support it. Libertarianism by any metric is foolish and destructive to society, because of its very nature it does end up with the poor footing the bill.
@Rundstedt1 the poor pay inflation & pay sales taxes. They typically pay no income taxes and no property taxes. The wealthy who actually own things should not be taxed on what they already own. The non-wealthy have the same right. So long as the taxes are used to fund crime anyhow they're all illegitimate.
"The problem is that the laissez faire minus the crony capitalism has never happened anywhere on Earth that I am aware of. Someone clue me in? Laissez faire capitalism is always, or nearly always, crony capitalism. The state is the only thing to throw the criminals in jail, and laissez faire gets rid of the state. The checks and balances in Milton’s model do not exist because the state is gutted, deregulated and corrupted by money." Robert Lindsay
@Rundstedt1 you're forgetting the city-state & tribal warfare. By having city-states & markets you can more easily decentralize everything so there isn't a singular ruler corrupting & stealing all. It's just a smaller state per item, more states to deal with. Some criminals need not be thrown in jail by the state: merely shoot them on the spot & be done with it, no trial.
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@Rundstedt1 It was the government that destroyed the middle class. Why work when you can get everything you need and more from the government FOR FREE!
@moosepok Yes the top 1% pay 34% of taxes, but it doesn't mean shit when we have lowered the rate at which we tax them. We ARE at a 60 year low when you look at tax revenue. I don't give a damn that they pay 34% of taxes, I care that they get a hell of a lot of benefits and consistently lobby and try and screw the rest of us to save a dime. I pay taxes, and I can only dream that one day I'm in a higher tax bracket. YES I pay more to the government, but I will be better off than I am right now.
@moosepok yes the top X % pay a lot of the overall taxes BUT they pay them on the lot of the income. Your statistic isn't wrong but it is misleading without the distribution of income. If the top 10% make 50% of the income than it is not much to pay 50% of the taxes.
I don't think you realize that the "top 50%" is everyone making 33K+ per year. Maybe folks in Po-dunk, USA are doing alright on 33K per year, but try to live on that in a city like Boston, LA, or NY where rent alone can run you 20K per year. After other basic expenses, you aren't left with much to be taxed on. Compare that to someone making 3 billion that still has 2 billion after taxes. Boo-fucking-hoo....how do they survive on 2 billion a year?? Those are the victims here. >:p
It all relies and the masses participating in the system.
PS its 1% want your money back find them and converge on them take what is your back its 1% of your numbers. oh but violence is wrong, its not wrong when it is defensive, taking back what has been gained by immoral means is not only our job its our right
find out what banks they use seize the banks, find out where they live seize the property, act like the police do when they are busting drug rings
@geebus80 and get your money out of the banks now. Gold & silver are money needing no ATM and no promise of faith to back worthless IOU notes called yen, euros and dollars. Drop them
that study is bull shit (he doesn't really cite the source but we can assume where he got his numbers). it doesn't take into account benefits like health care, transfer payments (tax credits/welfare), how most people make more money as they age, and finally how with the free market over all prices have gone down (the average family could buy more with less anyway)
food has gone way down since the 1970's, however recently due to irresponsible FED policies the price is going up.
and housing is too high right now because of government activity to try and prevent housing prices from coming down.
and used cars are going up because of government activity. that cash for clunkers program got rid of ton of perfectly good cars off the road and made used car prices go up by 30%.
food prices in the early 1970s where hiked do to the oil embargo and a number of drouths. Sense then food prices drops 75%. not exactly a good time to select for a measure.
housing is up because banks and lender CHOSE to make it easy to buy home. thus artificially increasing demand. they didnt care because they were selling them to bigger banks.
cash for clunkers was a good program.
you are clearly an anti big govt pro-freemarket groupy. so there is no point arguing with you.
food prices are still much lower than they've been in a while.
here's the thing though, banks and lender WOULDN'T HAVE BE ABLE TO make it easy to buy home if the FED wouldn't have set interest rates too low, and the government backed banks of freddie/ franie wouldn't have bought the loans. if the government promises it will buy the loans no matter what, all risk for the banks is gone.
idk what food you are talkng about but it cost my family much more then just 10 years ago. milk is up nearly 1 dollar for example all meats are up too.
to sell your loans to freddie/franie those had to meet refulations (one of which is that they cant be subprime). freddie and franie were also a small market share compared to the big banks and investment groups who did not have to meet those regulations. Those investment banks are respinsible for most of the crisis.
of course this leaves out 401K 301C roth ira's employee healthcare etc etc
ajgolfer1 6 days ago
@ajgolfer1 and only includes hourly wages
ajgolfer1 6 days ago
Oh America, why does everything have to be explained through cartoons and funny drawings? Are we all just infantile?
I’m kidding! Love TYT
tweetmail87 1 week ago
ron paul would end corporate influence and end inflation
harj2009 1 month ago
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check out my song "Banker Man" on my channel
thefogster61 4 months ago
@ignbtd you can calle it leftwing boiler plating and I can just come back and call anything you say is just rightwing boiler plating....and the game will continue into infinity.
MMZen 5 months ago
Some rich American bitch once said " Only the 'little' people pay taxs"!
12235117657598502586 5 months ago
@ignbtd Yes, because obviously you are at the level of intelligence of which you can try to discredit my entire statement by implicating that I don't understand basic grammar, and compositions. Or that I don't actually study linguistics, and that I use word site tools. You do all this, when in actuality, you appear acrimoniously bitter. Your lack of understanding is why you find my comment vague. But, to unfounded reasons, you still feel the need to label my assertions as a dense expletive.
edeal86 5 months ago
@ignbtd Unfortunately for your fallacious perverse logical argument, there is already evident proof of states contracting after stagnating the demand side with spending cuts, whilst redistributing it to corporations with tax cuts. You see, your reciprocal causality is that saving has its limits, and corporations have far exceeded such constraints. Currency must circulate within all castes of an economy in order to generate growth, and that has not even happened with a repatriation of 5%.
edeal86 6 months ago 2
So that's what the "?" meant before "profit".
2anime4ever 6 months ago
@idontfkinknow1234 I'm not American..
drumguy2007 6 months ago
because mj died
theprotectshade 7 months ago
"The vast middle class unable to borrow as it could before no longer has the purchasing power needed to get the economy growing again"
But who is supposed to SAVE? Someone has to SAVE first! You can only borrow what someone else has SAVED!
And what does he expect people to do with the money? Blow it on consumption? Go deeper into debt? That doesn't grow the economy at all!
This man is a nut.
kryflam 7 months ago
@kryflam Save?? Don't you mean hoard? And the bubble burst hoarding of the top percentages has just been so wonderful for the global economy over this past decade. The bubble burst have created more wealth than what existed before the 1980's. So you are very mistaken to say that it shrunk do to spending. In fact, contrary to conservative belief. Cutting spending is what causes economic contraction, and heavy job losses. Middle class consumption increases demand, which in turn creates jobs.
edeal86 6 months ago
Its called a fucking recession u dumbfucking blockhead
BorgKing001 7 months ago
The American economy has NOT doubled in size. It has contracted in real terms. Before you blame "the rich", blame the government for running up staggering debts and driving business out of the country.
kryflam 7 months ago
@Loathomar
That doesn't explain Germany's booming economy. They are also competing in the global economy.
okayplayer82 7 months ago
heh, havent u people ever heard of "trickle down"? when you cut taxes for the wealthier smarter folks, they will use that extra money to invest in businesses that can hire more people... MEANING MORE JOBS. if you dont cut taxes for the men who understand business, well then your fucked and end up a third world country
xjaskix 7 months ago
Lovely theory...too bad you've been proven wrong
The businesses are flush with cash and aren't hiring people because there isn't a demand because people don't have money
So what do they do? Raise wages? No...Hire? No...Pay shareholders? No...
Pay themselves gargantuan bonuses and use that money to buy back stock? You betcha
But hey, trickle down economics has been disproven so many times that it's close to a religious belief with you people so don't let evidence get in your way
dffykvn 7 months ago 2
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Guys used to have only high school diploma and were able to maintain a family with some kids, a stay at home mom, a paid out house, a second vacation property, a couple of cars and all the goods they needed. They went to vacation and were considered 'ugly Americans' - a colloquialism for 'ugly RICH Americans'.
They did it WITHOUT consumer borrowing. They made the money and had enormous purchasing power - had private insurance and health care, all without debt.
It's gone due to gov't.
romanmir01 8 months ago
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6. The actual middle class sans government intervention exists without borrowing for consumer spending. This entire argument is Keynesian shamanism - pretense that purchasing power depends on one's ability to BORROW MONEY?
No.
One's ability to spend depends on one's productivity - production capacity. If one is not producing, then one cannot spend. Consumer debt should not exist and would not exist without gov't intervention into the economy.
romanmir01 8 months ago
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Of-course there should be no difference between capital gains and other forms of income taxes, they all need to be 0% of income.
4. Gov't should not be spending any money on anything beyond minimum military protection and the justice system. All other spending needs to disappear completely, so this entire premise that gov't must provide services is false. Gov't needs to shrink, to disappear.
5. The public vs private, etc.etc. - as opposed to what? Communism?
romanmir01 8 months ago
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3. Effective tax rates never went over 20%, nobody is stupid to work for 5 cents on a dollar, as top tax brackets used to be (95% at some point). People could deduct almost everything. Today anybody with good income should be smart enough to avoid almost all gov't taxes, as they should. Gov't should not be growing, it needs to disappear.
Before 1971 USD had gold value. Once US defaulted on the promise to pay gold for dollar money started flowing out, so there could be no high taxes
romanmir01 8 months ago
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1. Since 1980 US economy was falling steadily, but as USD was printed steadily (1971 gold shock), the prices were going up. Economy was shrinking, since gov't was growing, but prices were going up, true inflation was underreported and they equated consumer debt spending with growing economy, which it was not, because US was losing jobs, not gaining them.
2. Gov't created the 'super rich' and gave them the money in form of 'stimulus', free money and bail outs and gov't contracts (wars, etc)
romanmir01 8 months ago
Why does the government always have to spend money on you?
calebmallen 8 months ago
Robert Reich is actually not too bad of a cartoon artist. Who would have known?
bostero1 8 months ago
@goldenmushroomz packaging, transport, pre-made microwave meals are taxed. Energy is taxed needed for freezer storage & transport.
ytgv3fc7 8 months ago
@FerrariSorry it's already sinking. 2012 may dow/gold = 2.0 and once that happens the entire stock market is going to shudder as the ratio potentially drops harder. We may see 5000 to 15000 Dow but we may see 5000 to 25000 / oz gold. per OUNCE. That means paper money will cease to be money and all your savings & income go to zero instantly. INSTANTLY TO ZERO.
ytgv3fc7 8 months ago
@ytgv3fc7
Good thing I don't have much savings. >=D
FerrariSorry 8 months ago
@FerrariSorry so long as you're skilled & mobile you can compensate for having few savings.
ytgv3fc7 7 months ago
@TsugaruClan how can a business lay off people and count the profits? How can a business do so, suffer no losses in the long run, then act like those jobs were efficient? It would be better if they innovated enough they upgraded jobs rather than firing people but maybe some businesses just can not magically improve everything they do & simply size downward once they are established.
ytgv3fc7 8 months ago
@ytgv3fc7 And the remaining employees are paid less to do more work. And the executives are stuffing their own pockets with more millions. Downsizing in a recession (or a depression), I understand. But rewarding executives for "saving the company money" by laying off hundreds? Beyond ridiculous. And just plain greedy, cold and heartless. I just heard recently of a top exec who doubled his salary and received more than a million in bonuses. His business? Newspapers! That dying industry.
TsugaruClan 8 months ago
@TsugaruClan it can be ridiculous but it's up to us to refuse to use any money or work to support them when we catch them in the act. The lay-offs need to balance the excess work no one needs done. The company should suffer when they cut too deep. We should make them suffer.
ytgv3fc7 7 months ago
@lasku0007 people have a right to save up for their children & grand-children, that's not greed. That's survival of the family lineage.
ytgv3fc7 8 months ago
@ytgv3fc7 "people have a right to save up for their children & grand-children"
I am not talking about rights here. You seem to think rights and greed are mutually exclusive.
In the civil war era a white person had the right to own a slave. Now I bet you will agree that it was the result of greed. Our rights continuously change and evolve which should, as our thinking evolve if we are to survive.
"That's survival of the family lineage." = darwinism... which is blatant explanation for greed.
lasku0007 8 months ago
@lasku0007 Darwinism = the best possible outcome at all times.
Rights: should not evolve. They should be carved in stone & all who trample them should be put to death.
ytgv3fc7 7 months ago
O really? If believe in darwinian society "treason" shouldn't be part of your vocabulary buddy, since there is no such thing as fair rules. And cops and banks aren't bad guys...they are just apex predators.
Either you don't know what you are talking about or just trolling.
Either way I don't want to waste my time with you. This would be my last reply to you.
lasku0007 7 months ago
@lasku0007 Quite wrong: in Darwinian society we call out treason faster than ever & end it in executions promptly & keep the line rolling until it's done with.
This efficiently evolves a society in which treason is vastly reduced. It's horseshit nonsense to act as if treason wouldn't exist in a Darwinian society. It's a first order of business to execute those guilty of treason
ytgv3fc7 7 months ago
@TTEchidna when I was $12 I remember seeing stacks of $1000 bills (Canadian) in front of me. A deep purple-brown. We don't use those anymore. Anyhow my gold bars are worth more than that now & will not drop. Paper isn't even real money, it's peasant-tokens. Silver &especially gold are real money; diamonds are not but rarity of naturals appeals to the elite. I know they can be made perfect $5/karat so I value them at that price.
ytgv3fc7 8 months ago
@carygoleman it makes perfect sense - you want to ensure your children & grandchildren are taken care of and I imagine they are doing so while also investing in companies, farms, mines, to ensure things keep operating as they profit from each such event / condition.
ytgv3fc7 8 months ago
@ytgv3fc7
Now if only people invested in local companies in real life instead of an Adam Smith fairy tale.
Also, inheritance is a joke.
carygoleman 8 months ago
@carygoleman without inheritance many people would be homeless & poor. Inheritance is how poor people stop their kids from being even poorer if there's anything at all to give. But yes, local investing is very ideal. I hope one day to have enough to be able to do so. Bee-keeping, I think, but we'll see what else turns up. The bees are very important for our food supply.
ytgv3fc7 7 months ago
@lasku0007 for the super-rich adding a billion in equivalent wealth-resources means income flow for the future, it means that in the future even if horrifying things happen to a currency, a nation, a few companies, an entire industry, that their savings do not go to zero. Much as they might think a billion is worth if a currency like the euro or USD fails it can go to zero in approximately 10 minutes. That's right, 10 minutes. Smart ones are getting gold & rarities (we have no use for)
ytgv3fc7 8 months ago
@iamLI3 unfortunately the zeitgeist fraud wants you to lie to yourself and enslave yourself to a central computer controlling all global resources. This is global robotic communism: you have no law, no rights, no freedom, only what the computer says is efficient under the central control of the few programmers. It's not de-centralized. It's not respecting individual rights to ownership or production or trade. It's evil. Sorry, it fails
ytgv3fc7 8 months ago
@ytgv3fc7 ok now im certain we've already talked to each other before about TZM/TVP , was that on another tyt or a zeitgeist movie itself -.o?....
iamLI3 8 months ago
@iamLI3 Yes I recognize your name. I questioned why we need central control when decentralized control is cheaper & more secure. I questioned why we would have circle cities when having less cities of any sort would be more safe for nature. Farm towers require impossibly strong materials that do not exist, using rare elements we can't afford to use for that. Gold is money: paper is only debt. Remember me now? When I asked the hard questions I was called a robot then banned.
ytgv3fc7 8 months ago
@iamLI3 wrong movie - that's the zeitgeist fraud - the actual truth is anything telling you commodities (resources) are real money (gold, silver, copper, etc) and nothing else. This is the one true solution. Paper is not money, it's debt. Debt is not money ever. Money is the root of no problems: it's the solution that saves us all. You just never saw it before. If you only ever held paper in your hands you have no touched or seen money once in your life. It's gold coins. Silver coins.
ytgv3fc7 8 months ago
@ytgv3fc7 what can you do with small chunks of metal?....
iamLI3 8 months ago
@iamLI3 depends on the metal: if it's silver I can make bandages or solder or paint or circuits. If it's gold I can make metallic cushions that hold shape but have give, again electronics all apply. Both are highly reflective. Gold is also a proton deflector (radiation shielding). Gold can't rust: sadly there's so little of it we can't just plate everything with gold to keep it secure from the elements.
ytgv3fc7 8 months ago
@BizWiz2000 the rich who would leave consist mainly of the thieves. Let them leave so we aren't bailing them out when they break everything.
ytgv3fc7 8 months ago
@ytgv3fc7 If they leave you can say goodbye to 20-40% of your tax revenue. And boy have you been busy replying to everyone who made a comment.
BizWiz2000 8 months ago
@BizWiz2000 that's ok, we'll get another 20% to 40% - they are demanding we drop it to near 0% for them to stay anyhow so it's no loss.
ytgv3fc7 8 months ago
@ytgv3fc7 Then you should be trying to get rid of tax loopholes first, and if that isn't enough, rising taxes
BizWiz2000 8 months ago
@BizWiz2000 Taxes are already too high. The services returned for them are too low & this trend shows no sign of changing. Drop taxes until the return vs tax-revenue is a better ratio.
ytgv3fc7 7 months ago
@ytgv3fc7 But dropping taxes in a deficit situation is a bad idea
BizWiz2000 7 months ago
@BizWiz2000 but raising taxes in a recession or depression will murder the entire economy. People will be forced to leave work or leave the country and that will be a huge damage worse than cutting taxes.
ytgv3fc7 7 months ago
@ytgv3fc7 Of course you would raise them after the recession and there will be an even bigger deficit by the time the recession is over (thanks to a largely ineffective stimulus early in the recession). You would also raise them on the rich more than everyone else, probably raise it by 5-10% for top income earners. An estate tax and raising the retirement age would also help. Cutting the military by 15-20% probably wouldn't weaken it. Its the little 5%-20% increases/decreases that help the most
BizWiz2000 7 months ago
@BizWiz2000 after, not before, but only carefully. Currently most tax revenue is abusively spent on black-ops projects and abusively most of the spending total is from debt not from taxes, so everything is built on promises that can't be kept and secrets that never should be secret. Cut the military 80% and that will help much better than 20%. It's the big 80% cuts which help the most. If you can't do it the recession stays forever. I mean 200 years to the point where USA = doesn't exist anymore
ytgv3fc7 7 months ago
@ytgv3fc7 Most tax revenue doesn't go to 'black-ops' projects. Google 'death and taxes poster' to get an idea of what amount of money is spent on black ops. But yes, lots of spending comes from debt. But if you cut 80% of the military budget alot of troops and maintenance workers stationed overseas would suddenly find themselves unemployed, there would be less income for national guards, and alot of factory workers (in the US) updating the capital stock of the military would become unemployed
BizWiz2000 7 months ago
@BizWiz2000 more than 1 trillion a year goes to black ops projects. Most of the expenditure of the USA is on military per year period. Those returning from the killing fields may very well have both money AND innovations in mind - you are forgetting the ability to start new business or take the family abroad forever for a better life. Some won't do it but some will. They have traveled enough to see which other safe-places their bases were to know it's good to live (e.g. Germany)
ytgv3fc7 7 months ago
@ytgv3fc7 A trillion a year doesn't go to black ops. Look at wikipedia, the congressional budget office, the death and taxes poster, and many many other sources to confirm that. I already know you will probably retort by saying that the main stream media and the government and the illuminati are lying to me (so don't waste your time). But have you ever questioned that the people saying that a trillion dollars a year go to black ops are lying? Before you question others, question yourself first.
BizWiz2000 7 months ago
@BizWiz2000 when you add up all the operations in South America, in the Middle East and that includes keeping all the aircraft carriers running AND all their support ships, a trillion a year is a drop in the bucket. I was rounding down. They are all in support roles for the black ops for drop-points, supplies & pick-up otherwise most black ops people would be hitch-hiking, hi-jacking & James-Bonding it between dispatches - they are not. They are using the imperial forces.
ytgv3fc7 7 months ago
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@ytgv3fc7
In the case of the US, we can point to a number of important acts of financial deregulation that were the direct causes of the crisis:
(1) Repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act (1999)
In the US, the Glass-Steagall Act, initially created in the wake of the Stock Market Crash of 1929, prohibited banks from both accepting deposits and underwriting securities. This led to segregation of investment banks from commercial banks.
zsylvana 7 months ago
@TruthAndMoreTruth weak sauce reply. If you vote for the bad guy you are part of the problem not the solution. Non-voting is an admirable outcome: you are absolutely 100% not at fault for the crimes of the people you refused to vote for. It's time to pack up & leave or have a civil war. You will vote yourself into gitmo at this rate.
ytgv3fc7 8 months ago
@TruthAndMoreTruth voting won't fix this - you can't get a good candidate in for any party - you are done. JFK was the death of your country. Your nation should have risen up and lynched the killers in government but did not. That was the end.
ytgv3fc7 8 months ago
@Crowbarazar indeed, it's not too late but much time has passed - in the last 10 years holding gold & silver to turn back into fiat paper on demand or to trade directly for high value goods like a car or a house would do it. You probably have 10 years left of gains, maybe 5, if you get in to gold and/or silver now. Delivery is important: if it's not in your hand it's not yours. I also play the paper games like options & etf's but it's super-risky
ytgv3fc7 8 months ago
@TheTruthNJ09 not just any debt, the one kind of American debt that bankruptcy law will not allow to be reduced or slowed in payment for any reason. Ever.
ytgv3fc7 8 months ago
@ohgrx it's too late. Your idea would be perfect 10 years ago. It's just too late now. Those jobs can't ever return, prices can not equalize, factories have been shut down too long, equipment sold, people out of work who lost their skills, new people not entering a factory work environment having no ability to train / learn except from scratch.
ytgv3fc7 8 months ago
@genrlcvr if you really want to tax luxuries you can't just slap taxes on things to steal the money - you should invest / own the production of those luxuries so you can jack up the prices. The elite esteem will push them to buy since they are rich, they wouldn't want to say "oh that price is too high" because then they're not elite. They'll pay. Then it's profit not theft. They'll know the deal but they'll pay.
ytgv3fc7 8 months ago
@ytgv3fc7 What the hell are you talking about, as if "owning the production of luxuries" is an actual real-world option for the non-rich. Sure, who would _not_ "choose" that if it were a real choice? The point is the non-rich don't have the money to "own production," they _need_ to use most of their paycheck to _live._ The real "theft" is not through progressive taxation, but through sucking all the value of labor through obscene profit by the owners, who mostly inherit not earn their fortune.
genrlcvr 8 months ago
@genrlcvr I think you misunderstood me. Make it so GOVERNMENT seizes production of luxuries and so the profit collected directly is the tax taken from the rich spending like that for status. Then no business in the middle providing luxuries feels their business is hurt by a tax; their business privately ceases to exist. It's merely an idea, not something I would push. The non-rich DO indeed have, can get by savings, the money to own production. It's a myth it can't be done.
ytgv3fc7 8 months ago
@genrlcvr those who live just barely with enough in pay to buy food are not the "non-rich" they are a smaller category of "poor". There's non-rich + non-poor people who run small businesses & invest using savings. The anti-theft device of taking from labour by exploitation is to refuse to work & no strikes - just QUIT and tell everyone the owner is a thief/exploiter. It will kill that business.
ytgv3fc7 8 months ago
@ytgv3fc7 Yeah, this distinction between non-rich and poor is becoming less and less meaningful, and will likely become rapidly less meaningful as the upcoming harsh austerity bill comes through. Right _now_ 25% of kids live in poverty in this supposedly first-world country. Look, even the middle-income folk who have some money to spare aren't going to be able to take "ownership" of anything compared to the rich; get real. And the non-rich can't "QUIT" without probably going homeless, etc.
genrlcvr 8 months ago
@genrlcvr The non-rich who aren't the poorest can immigrate. The poorest also can but it's harder. It's the new reality: flee the sinking ship while you're above water
ytgv3fc7 7 months ago
@ytgv3fc7 Believe me, if I could obtain citizenship/career-continuance in a country like Norway, Australia, even Canada I would leave in half-a-heartbeat. But that's not a real-world option, for 99.9% of the non-rich, otherwise you'd be seeing _mass_ emigration from this stupid country.
genrlcvr 7 months ago
@genrlcvr supremely poor people immigrate around the world all the time. Some people are so defeatist they do not comprehend how to actually move and get things done without money. Anyhow the ones who aren't that bright or motivated we don't want anyways so just don't let them in on this whole "just walk across the border" business. Send them to Mexico's border to "fight for their country" or something so they keep occupied in irony
ytgv3fc7 7 months ago
@SillyCyban if they take everyone's guns first there will be no one to take them to the guillotines.
We need gas masks able to keep out nerve gas & lots of bullets or they will kill us, those who do not submit to slavery for generations
ytgv3fc7 8 months ago
@Iconf10 owning is only a leverage point. What you own allows you to harvest incoming wealth on a constant basis in a flowing system which is always moving. It's not the money that's moving, it's you. Your physical work, your movement from place to place - if you live, if you breathe, your energy can be harvested. This is farmville for the real mafia not mafia wars for people bored of farmville.
ytgv3fc7 8 months ago
@12235117657598502586 no pieces of silver - they took OUR pieces of silver and forced us to use paper. If we used silver we'd have no such problems
ytgv3fc7 8 months ago
@ytgv3fc7 - You're right, but I was associating the Fed to the pieces of silver given to that notorious biblical traitor called Judas Iscariot!
(BTW & FTR, I'm not a Christian in case you were wondering)
12235117657598502586 8 months ago
@tatoott1009 nonsense - will not forward
ytgv3fc7 8 months ago
@EvilFingers then do some research first and save, don't mortgage. Don't move where you think a job won't last or if you must then rent, do not own.
ytgv3fc7 8 months ago
@kwb70652 there's still time left. Collect what you can in money as gold & silver coins or bars - ignore numismatic value you want it by weight. It's inflation-proof in these crisis periods which repeat every 30 years.
ytgv3fc7 8 months ago
@UserXer0 only if it's the right kind - if it's the kind with no central control, no paper money, no dictatorship of any sort and only voluntary action to assist one group using another group we're OK. If it's the other kind, central control, confiscation of property/assets to feed "the poor" and so on - no, that's evil slavery and must be killed on sight using all the guns in the universe immediately.
ytgv3fc7 8 months ago
@ecwaufisxtreme if I put Sarah Palin in a box with instructions on how to get out she'd starve in there.
ytgv3fc7 8 months ago
That's not even close to the right inflation numbers.
The right inflation numbers for the real cost of living is between 4% and 7% a year
that means 30yrs = 0.308 or -69% of your purchasing power. That's a lot more than $400. That's MOST of your income
ytgv3fc7 8 months ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
To all of you lapping this up like dogs Robert Reich does not cite A SINGLE SOURCE in this video which as anyone who passed the 5th grade should know makes this as informative as expired pudding.
avengemm9dog 8 months ago
@avengemm9dog
The facts he use are so well known and easily verified that he doesn't need to cite sources, besides which, he is purposely trying to keep the video short which a long list of sources would preclude. Sorry, the video is very informative and succinct, no wonder Right-wingers hate it.
Rundstedt1 8 months ago
the rich become more rich, the poor become more poor,
saifulcaocao87 8 months ago
Workers of America, Unite!!!
PERIOD!!
lapiz4azulli 8 months ago
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TheENTERRAPTURE17 8 months ago
Very well articulated, but it won't make the conservitards get it. They'll only understand it if Jesus comes down and writes it on a cereal-box.
MyTemporaryAccount88 8 months ago
Its like fuckin monopoly.
humanisall 8 months ago
@MrWisemasterful
Wrong, wrong! America outsorced so much of our manufacturing to China and India creating a huge demand for german equipment used in manufacturing which accounts for the exports driving the german economy!
germany has been technologically advanced for a long time. education is very important but attitudes and the makeup of the population is the key. here America fails
not to worry, America has far more lawyers, athletes, singers, actors,...and community organizers! haha
genie0390 8 months ago
yeah lets blame china and india. your outsource because it seems american is not as well trained in most high end jobs. Corporations have your balls. and all you can do is be manipulated by the tea-knobbers. all your patriotism lies in whining and demonizing your own citizens. there is easy out but participating in democracy. crying wolf does does nothing and convinces no one that the tea-lickers can do anything. Why? because you still remain conflicted of an idea that you know whats better.
humanisall 8 months ago
I love reading all the comments saying the video is a lie. lol idiots. and comments from retards like chipfayle
mecher3k 8 months ago
Satan, laughing spreads his wings...
Shadofax5 8 months ago
The whole video is a pack of lies. How the economy grows determines the effect it has on wages. If we had an industrial based economy, then doubling would have increased wages. However, our economy is more than industrial. It is also HIGH TECH now, which means workers have to be EDUCATED!
CommonSenseJoe 8 months ago
@CommonSenseJoe the effect on wages is always negative as jobs are shipped away from the continent. You can't have an industrial based economy, not if you plan to have a global economy. It's one or the other, not both. You can't compete with China, Germany or Japan's past - though Japan's been knocked down for a century thanks to Fukushima.
ytgv3fc7 8 months ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
@ytgv3fc7 No one "ships" jobs overseas. Jobs end when the company can no longer produce their products HERE at a competitive price. The worth of a simple pair of hands or a strong back is inclining and has been for decades. Unions could have been part of the solution, but choose to be part of the problem.
CommonSenseJoe 8 months ago
@CommonSenseJoe that's nonsense - jobs are shipped overseas well in advance of any losses or problems by each company involved. It has nothing to do with a competitive price, it has to do with stealing. The prices are competitive for sale & labour - I've seen it myself - it's just a matter of stealing that much more work from a person using force & central-bank control and putting it into CEO bonuses. I've watched it start to finish to confirm. Unions are the true solution, no problem at all.
ytgv3fc7 8 months ago
@CommonSenseJoe central banks collude to force a wage to be lower in purchasing power in another nation, then corporations collude with central banks to steal everyone's labour via slavery via inflation via paper money to force a trade deficit gradient. Then jobs are shipped in advance of any market activity reflecting any change of prices, profits, losses. It's all intentional manipulation from the first microsecond. Finally jobs are stopped in the old country with no need.
ytgv3fc7 8 months ago
@CommonSenseJoe the end result is that the products are not cheaper, the investment into product efficiency (of production and/or innovation) does not increase and the total extra capital gained by stealing from workers (paying them less, using force to ensure they will take it or be bombed for being communist as Vietnam was bombed) this total bonus goes right into executive salary - not company profits, not dividends, not cheaper prices not improved products.
ytgv3fc7 8 months ago
@ytgv3fc7 Wrong again. Lower costs do not ALWAYS translate into hire executive salaries. Companies have competitors. People have the freedom to choose. That is the way our system works. US automakers made crappy cars and charged outrageous prices for them. Foreign car companies made a better product, at a cheaper price. The market forced US car companies to improve. This whole concept of demonizing some group for "making too much money" is flawed. Government is the problem, not the rich
CommonSenseJoe 8 months ago
@CommonSenseJoe
competition is really only relevent if there are many competitors. right now most big businesses only have 1-2 maybe three competitor. thus they can keep the extra money for themselves on the basis that they are offering something that the other isnt.
there is very little difference between big business and big govt. mostly sense big business got the big govt elected in the first place.
Crazylalalalala 8 months ago
@Crazylalalalala Not true, even one competitor keeps a company in line. Who competes with the government? There is a BIG difference between BIG government and BIG business. One produces wealth, jobs, and economic activity. Government produces nothing but lazy people who live off entitlements.
CommonSenseJoe 8 months ago
@CommonSenseJoe not true. A single competitor can not and will not keep a company in line ever. They collude & rape the consumers together. Only by forming your own business that is their supplier and destroying their supply-line can you force their prices down again.
ytgv3fc7 7 months ago
@ytgv3fc7 That means you become a competitor. Businesses do this ALL THE TIME when the government gets out of the way. If prices get too high, consumers will use less or stop using it all together. Someone will invest their own money and find a new, better, and more efficient way to do it. The market will always correct such situations if the government is not controling the market.
CommonSenseJoe 7 months ago
@CommonSenseJoe no,wrong. If you control a supply-line you are not a competitor. You are a supplier. Competitors use the same resources & have the same markets. Suppliers do NOT. I am not in your market, you are a seller and have a market. But you are MY customer, I am not yours; I can destroy you by cutting off what you need. Russia controls Europe in this way via gas lines; yet they are NOT competing for the same markets. You need to think. Suppliers are NOT competitors.
ytgv3fc7 7 months ago
@CommonSenseJoe in this way markets can NEVER be self-correcting because no market today allows this supply-line cut-off at a level which promotes anything but slavery. The current market system is criminal and violence must be used to stop it. No one with their own money will find anything: they will be robbed & enslaved as soon as they even expose they have money to invest. Get armed, ensure all money is gold & silver, be ready to shoot and to barter and immigrate.
ytgv3fc7 7 months ago
@ytgv3fc7 I am ready. However, I think you are wrong.
CommonSenseJoe 7 months ago
@CommonSenseJoe then you don't know what a market even is if you think I'm wrong. People competing to sell apples or wheat are not competitors with those selling the fertilizer or tractors to the farmers. Those are non-competing suppliers.
ytgv3fc7 7 months ago
@ytgv3fc7 I know you are wrong. There is and can more competition today than ever before. The problem is that the government is always interfering in the market place, instead of promoting competition. There is nothing criminal about the market place. The crime is when the government uses it's power to pick the winners and losers in the economy.
CommonSenseJoe 7 months ago
@CommonSenseJoe you know nothing of what you claim: small businesses are being trashed, workers are being trashed, only big corporations control everything and there are fewer of them than in the last 20 to 40 years because so many are actually holding companies or subsidiaries for single giant mega corporations like Disney or GE. Everything about this market place is insider trading, stealing and fraud - all criminal. This crime is 1 billion times the size of government's crime.
ytgv3fc7 7 months ago
@ytgv3fc7 So we rob the rich and give the money to the poor, and then what?
CommonSenseJoe 7 months ago
@CommonSenseJoe no, you do not. You fail to rob the rich because they have all the guns, then you fail to give the money to the poor because there's more poverty than you could feed with double the money and food in the world, and then you wake up & realize that was never the right thing to do. The right thing to do is find fraudsters & thieves, rich or poor, and KILL them. THIS solves the problem.
ytgv3fc7 7 months ago
@ytgv3fc7 Really? Who is the one who determines who is a "fraudster"? You? How about the lazy people who collect welfare benefits when they could work? Are they "fraudsters"? How about the people who think that gives people something for nothing will end poverty? Are they "fraudsters"?
CommonSenseJoe 7 months ago
@CommonSenseJoe ABSOLUTELY ME. I am damn good at finding & proving fraud.
Anyone can join in the game, the more the merrier.
Lazy people refusing to work but claiming they can not, getting money for that, are also fraudsters and must be cut off IMMEDIATELY. Giving something for nothing to end poverty: FRAUD. Yes, stop it right now.
ytgv3fc7 7 months ago
@CommonSenseJoe Then we are Norway. Norway has the same GDP per capita of USA but the quality of life of the average Norwegian is not comparable to the quality of life of the average american. Simple.
thorkelson 7 months ago
@CommonSenseJoe "Companies have competitors. People have the freedom to choose."
That's a nice fantasy. Import from China & giant mergers will set you straight back to reality.
"The market forced US car companies to improve."
Not that I can see.
ytgv3fc7 7 months ago
What a ludicrous piece of propaganda! The primary reason our real wages have declined is the intentional devaluation of the dollar by the Federal Reserve with tacit support of Democrats & Republicans alike through massive expansion of the money supply. They both used all the new money to fund big government programs to dole out social and corporate welfare to their "constituents". The government spends the new money before the devaluation effect occurs leaving the rest of us holding the bag.
ChampaignLibertarian 8 months ago 2
Even when Democrats are in control of both congressional houses and the presidency, nothing happens to fix this problem. We stop sliding into the hole, but we gain no ground back. Progress has to begin at the street level; we all have to do this ourselves outside the influence of the corrupted parties. Learn to skills you need to resist, and make your voices heard. With art, music, just by spreading the word we can begin to take down corruption in the world.
youtube.com/watch?v=7dSz-cbVD2s
DarthRandall 8 months ago 2
Also heading for a debt crisis like Greece.
meotaku2 8 months ago
Why can't more people in the US understand these simple facts?
The entire world is seeing you glide down faster and faster towards an economic meltdown that will make the crash of the late 20's seem like nothing. If the US is gonna keep going this way things will come to a head. And I am afraid violence is going to be involved.
I would not be surprised anymore if the US will have a second revolution/civil war within my lifespan if they keep going down this road. And the world still needs the USA
thedutchman01 8 months ago
Sad sick stuff. This is the war average americans should be fighting.
timoback3000 8 months ago
Remember everyone; if you don't bend over and let the rich rape you than you are an evil SOCIALIST!!!!!
bigfilmhat 8 months ago 3
Let's not just complain about the loss from inflation and tax changes. Consider the costs of participants in our new BS tech society: new computer(s) every few years - $2,000; Internet connection - $40/ month; new cell phone every 3 years with web browsing ability: $70/ month/ phone. None of those costs applied in 1980, and they're what's bankrupting many of our citizens today. Just say no to unnecessary tech crap!
ChipArgyle 8 months ago
@ChipArgyle Great point.
pilatus34 8 months ago
@ChipArgyle actually I worked for t-mobile and I'll tell you people who can't afford the bills just aren't paying them & the company spends huge dollars (public quarterly reports) on free phones + heavy discounts so you only pay by keeping your contract - which you'd pay bills to use your phone regardless if you bought it outright (most people will not do that). The idea is "regular profit streams" to ensure reportable income reliability (despite many in collections)
ytgv3fc7 8 months ago
@ChipArgyle also while not chosen all the time there's cheap plans on prepaid with any company and with t-mobile you could get it to $20 to $25 / mo. I'm in Canada and I pay $25/mo for prepaid.
ytgv3fc7 8 months ago
the rich will fall eventually this is fucked up middle class always gets fucked in the ass
AndrewMacedonia 8 months ago
@AndrewMacedonia the rich don't fall unless you push them off their ivory towers
It's not the rich an and of itself who are the problem; rich or poor, it's the fraudsters, those who steal & destroy who are the problem. A poor man who's stolen a billion & spent it all is as guilty as a rich man who's stolen a billion & kept it all
ytgv3fc7 8 months ago
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TheENTERRAPTURE17 8 months ago
@TheENTERRAPTURE17 to non-believers: relax because none of this nonsense is possible ever. Fiction = bible, crazy = bible thumpers
ytgv3fc7 8 months ago
He's wrong. He's pushing a political agenda. Industry that used to generate wealth in the USA now sits in low wage countries. The owners are here in the USA. Their salaries are high because their companies are profitable. The wealthy are not the problem.
Top 1% pay 34% of taxes
Top 5% pay 54% "
Top 10% pay 66% "
Top 25% pay 84% "
Top 50% pay 97% "
Bottom 50% of wage-earners pay less than 4% of taxes.
Bottom 40% have a negative tax rate.
High wages in the USA are the problem. End Unions.
moosepok 8 months ago
@moosepok (1/4)
Problem is that you are just listing income taxes, when you include ALL taxes like payroll, sales, property, and other fees, ect, your list is shown to be skewed. Besides which as the top 1% own more than 40% of the wealth in the county they are still not paying their far share even only considering your skewed list.
Rundstedt1 8 months ago 2
@moosepok (2/4)
"It is widely believed that taxes are highly progressive and, furthermore, that the top several percent of income earners pay most of the taxes received by the federal government. Both ideas are wrong because they focus on official, rather than "effective" tax rates and ignore payroll taxes, which are mostly paid by those with incomes below $100,000 per year."
Rundstedt1 8 months ago 2
@moosepok (3/4)
"In terms of types of financial wealth, the top one percent of households have 38.3% of all privately held stock, 60.6% of financial securities, and 62.4% of business equity." "Wealth, Income, and Power" by G. William Domhoff
Rundstedt1 8 months ago
@moosepok (4/4)
The problem is not 'unions' Unions have made the middle class possible, the problem is the libertarian, and other 'trickle down crap that has been forced on us since about the Reagan era, and that since then has increased the level of disparity in this country. End the libertarian junk and return prosperity to this country.
Rundstedt1 8 months ago 6
@Rundstedt1 Forced on you? How come you didn't make any mention about the public? Why only blame the govenment? Since the Reagan adminsitration, the greedy public has lived way beyond their means and the govenment did not force them to do any of that. The economy was a ticking time bomb and in 2008 it finally expolded and the public has as much blame for it as the govenment.
pilatus34 8 months ago
@Rundstedt1 it's not Libertarian to tax the poor & absolve the rich. It's libertarian to tax no one. You aren't entitled to all the money others make, which is what you get if you're poor, paying little or no tax, getting services, and the rich pay them. That's not their fair share - they owe you nothing. On the other hand societal stability always is important, so if health care & policing, good roads, power-grids keep society stable then fund it using taxes.
ytgv3fc7 8 months ago
@ytgv3fc7 (1/2)
The poor pay taxes also, as a matter of fact they pay a larger percentage of what they have than the rich, they pay sales, license fees, payroll deductions and other fees. The wealthy use more of the commons of this country it is only fair that they should pay more to support it. Libertarianism by any metric is foolish and destructive to society, because of its very nature it does end up with the poor footing the bill.
Rundstedt1 8 months ago
@Rundstedt1 the poor pay inflation & pay sales taxes. They typically pay no income taxes and no property taxes. The wealthy who actually own things should not be taxed on what they already own. The non-wealthy have the same right. So long as the taxes are used to fund crime anyhow they're all illegitimate.
ytgv3fc7 7 months ago
@ytgv3fc7 (2/2)
"The problem is that the laissez faire minus the crony capitalism has never happened anywhere on Earth that I am aware of. Someone clue me in? Laissez faire capitalism is always, or nearly always, crony capitalism. The state is the only thing to throw the criminals in jail, and laissez faire gets rid of the state. The checks and balances in Milton’s model do not exist because the state is gutted, deregulated and corrupted by money." Robert Lindsay
Rundstedt1 8 months ago 2
@Rundstedt1 you're forgetting the city-state & tribal warfare. By having city-states & markets you can more easily decentralize everything so there isn't a singular ruler corrupting & stealing all. It's just a smaller state per item, more states to deal with. Some criminals need not be thrown in jail by the state: merely shoot them on the spot & be done with it, no trial.
ytgv3fc7 7 months ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
@Rundstedt1 It was the government that destroyed the middle class. Why work when you can get everything you need and more from the government FOR FREE!
CommonSenseJoe 8 months ago
@moosepok Yes the top 1% pay 34% of taxes, but it doesn't mean shit when we have lowered the rate at which we tax them. We ARE at a 60 year low when you look at tax revenue. I don't give a damn that they pay 34% of taxes, I care that they get a hell of a lot of benefits and consistently lobby and try and screw the rest of us to save a dime. I pay taxes, and I can only dream that one day I'm in a higher tax bracket. YES I pay more to the government, but I will be better off than I am right now.
cheezbawl2003 8 months ago 3
@moosepok yes the top X % pay a lot of the overall taxes BUT they pay them on the lot of the income. Your statistic isn't wrong but it is misleading without the distribution of income. If the top 10% make 50% of the income than it is not much to pay 50% of the taxes.
0MoTheG 8 months ago
@moosepok
I don't think you realize that the "top 50%" is everyone making 33K+ per year. Maybe folks in Po-dunk, USA are doing alright on 33K per year, but try to live on that in a city like Boston, LA, or NY where rent alone can run you 20K per year. After other basic expenses, you aren't left with much to be taxed on. Compare that to someone making 3 billion that still has 2 billion after taxes. Boo-fucking-hoo....how do they survive on 2 billion a year?? Those are the victims here. >:p
LividImp 8 months ago
The US economy is eating itself. It's stunning how the super rich and those in power have no foresight... all they can see is short term gains.
Jeridiculous 8 months ago 3
@Jeridiculous they have foresight. They have gold bars, passports & influence.
ytgv3fc7 8 months ago
Eric Cantor & Paul Ryan are Corporate Whores working for the Koch Briothers & the destruction of the middle class.
DillonDee1 8 months ago
it wont stop until you stop using it.
It all relies and the masses participating in the system.
PS its 1% want your money back find them and converge on them take what is your back its 1% of your numbers. oh but violence is wrong, its not wrong when it is defensive, taking back what has been gained by immoral means is not only our job its our right
find out what banks they use seize the banks, find out where they live seize the property, act like the police do when they are busting drug rings
geebus80 8 months ago
@geebus80 and get your money out of the banks now. Gold & silver are money needing no ATM and no promise of faith to back worthless IOU notes called yen, euros and dollars. Drop them
ytgv3fc7 8 months ago
that study is bull shit (he doesn't really cite the source but we can assume where he got his numbers). it doesn't take into account benefits like health care, transfer payments (tax credits/welfare), how most people make more money as they age, and finally how with the free market over all prices have gone down (the average family could buy more with less anyway)
GodAthie 8 months ago
@GodAthie
hmm, what exactly has gone down in prices? certainly not gas, or houseing, or food, or cars...
Crazylalalalala 8 months ago
@Crazylalalalala
food has gone way down since the 1970's, however recently due to irresponsible FED policies the price is going up.
and housing is too high right now because of government activity to try and prevent housing prices from coming down.
and used cars are going up because of government activity. that cash for clunkers program got rid of ton of perfectly good cars off the road and made used car prices go up by 30%.
GodAthie 8 months ago
@GodAthie
food prices in the early 1970s where hiked do to the oil embargo and a number of drouths. Sense then food prices drops 75%. not exactly a good time to select for a measure.
housing is up because banks and lender CHOSE to make it easy to buy home. thus artificially increasing demand. they didnt care because they were selling them to bigger banks.
cash for clunkers was a good program.
you are clearly an anti big govt pro-freemarket groupy. so there is no point arguing with you.
Crazylalalalala 8 months ago
@Crazylalalalala
food prices are still much lower than they've been in a while.
here's the thing though, banks and lender WOULDN'T HAVE BE ABLE TO make it easy to buy home if the FED wouldn't have set interest rates too low, and the government backed banks of freddie/ franie wouldn't have bought the loans. if the government promises it will buy the loans no matter what, all risk for the banks is gone.
GodAthie 8 months ago
@GodAthie
idk what food you are talkng about but it cost my family much more then just 10 years ago. milk is up nearly 1 dollar for example all meats are up too.
to sell your loans to freddie/franie those had to meet refulations (one of which is that they cant be subprime). freddie and franie were also a small market share compared to the big banks and investment groups who did not have to meet those regulations. Those investment banks are respinsible for most of the crisis.
Crazylalalalala 8 months ago