Sandy Koufax Story.wmv

[UncleMikeNJ]

For the first one-third of his career, he couldn't find the plate. For the second one-third of his career, he may have been the best pitcher ever. For the last one-third of his career, we never got to see him. One of the few ballplayers who's ever truly had a mystique. A riddle wrapped in a mystery inside a called strike three.

[mrhoosier1000]

Satchel Paige is the greatest!

[graciemaemarie11]

how ca anybody insult sandy, by mentioning a 6 inning pitcher named pedro, in the same sentence, with the master?

[UncleMikeNJ]

@graciemaemarie11 Maybe they have Pedro the Punk confused with that other Dodger pitcher, the headhunting Don Drysdale.

[bennyvega100]

Best pitcher ever

[mgwilliams1000]

He was never a Jew or anything else on the mound... Just a pitcher. Hank Aaron said his curveball was "un-hittable". I have a black and white photo on my wall still... of him ptching against the Twins in the World Series. He looks like he is two feet tall coming off the mound with his delivery. his arm straight over the top curveball.

[attjiujitsu]

Best of all time



[beatlejim64]

MAYBE the best ever...all class...no pitcher had a better 5 years stretch from 62 thru 66...

[cslan4]

(To me) The very Best picher ever!

[jbasile4968]

Well I do no pitching and Sandy and Bob gibson had thge great advantage of a stikezone that was expanded to the shoulders to the knees and an eighteen inch mound. This was done in 1962 and changed back in 1969. Hmmm. Koufax started to get good in 62.

[aoregon2]

Dodgers should've cloned him!

[Margaux177]

Just love this "chapter" from Ken Burns' 1994 masterpiece, Baseball. This chapter is called "The Jewish Kid," getting its title from Casey Stengel's incredible statement at the end. Stengel spent 70 years in basesball and saw (played or managed against) them all. For Casey to to call "the Jewish Kid" the greatest of 'em all is pretty much it.

And you gotta love "Green Onions" as the background music; a perfect match for Sandy's mastery.

[GrindyStone]

The way the clip of Koufax striking out Roger Maris is cut, it implies that Sandy let Raj know a breaking pitch is on the way ... AND STILL STRIKES HIM OUT!

[tomorrowsboy7]

Well I can remember that it took the Mets until 1965 to beat him for the first time.

When the Dodgers got 2 runs,the feeling was,"game over".

[mrhoosier1000]

Satchel Paige is the greatest pitcher of all time.

[AnimationaThree]

Wow, so thats my cousin in action, too bad he died before i was born...

yeh nojoke he ma cuz

[AnimationaThree]

Wow, so thats my cousin in action, too bad he died before i was born...

[aknowneemus]

All my heroes (clemente,mays,aaron) have said that koufax was "un-hittable" when he was on. I have to agree that he was THE best in baseball history..

Alot of other hitters have claimed that koufax' fastball had an afterburner effect. Where the ball seemed to "speed up" during the last 10 feet or so.

[huggybobo88]

SONG PLEASE

[Trudeau790]

@huggybobo88 Green Onions by Booker T. & The MGs.

[jimi557]

THE ONE AND THE ONLY. THE BEST PITCHER EVER IN BASEBALL. THERE WILL NEVER BE ANOTHER SANDY KOUFAX EVER!

[redmustang03]

In a 5 year span Koufax was the best pitcher ever. I mean 3 CY Young when they used to give out 1 for the whole league. His last two years, the only way he even pitched was to use painkillers, cream, heat, and then ice. I man just imagine being in pain every single day and still pitching 90 pitches a start. His last year in 1966, he won 27 games and pitched 1.73 which no left hander has EVER equaled except Steve Carlton in 1972. He was the best ever and he won 4 World Series.

[huggybobo88]

GREATEST PITCHER OF ALL TIME

[SimpleStuff31]

@huggybobo88 nah maddux is, but i have tremendous respect for koufax, best lefty ever, much better than johnson

[whothehellgivesadamn]

@SimpleStuff31 YOU CAN SAY MADDUX WAS BUT THEN YOU'RE A NOBODY SO YOU'RE JUST PROFESSING YOUR IGNORANCE AND GENERAL STUPIDITY, I HAPPEN TO BE A GREAT PITCHER AMONG OTHER THINGS AND I KNOW WHAT IM TALKING ABOUT....YOU'RE NOTHING....ALL THE GREAT'S AGREE WITH ME AS THIS VIDEO DEPICTS, SANDY WAS THE GREATEST AND YOU'RE NOTHING BUT SOME LAME DOPE POSTING TO TRY TO GET SOME ATTENTION, YOU CERTAINLY WOULDN'T GET ANY ATTENTION ON THE MOUND BECAUSE LET'S FACE IT YOU SUCK.

[morningbirdfeeder]

imagining the pain he must have went through with that elbow makes me cringe

[whothehellgivesadamn]

No simplehead, you apparently don't understand that Koufax was an artistic genius, the other guys were good horses. Unfortunately back in the sixties, people didn't have the knowledge of sports medicine that they do today. In the case of Sandy's career though, it really doesn't matter because his performances will go down as unparalleled in pitching history, that is of course, if i don't come out of retirement. I watched sandy pitch a perfect game at the park, he was so good, you expected it.

[Humes53]

Can you imagine what Sandy would do in today's watered down Major Leagues? I doubt if he would lose more than a game or two all season! Sandy is the GREATEST! Should have probably gotten the nod over Clemente for MVP in 1966.

[49erBW]

@Humes53 ...Absolutely! HANDS Down, should of won the 66 MVP..with 2nd to NONE Numbers!...I have talked to numerous BB scouts that saw all of the greats pitch after WW II, and "ALL of them" except one would want Sandy to pitch any money game played! Only exception...Bob Gibson, & he was a Cardinal scout...not a bad choice!

[longbowgold67]

If they let him pitch enough. Fact is the guy destroyed his elbow and they would put him on a 60 day DL with his kind of injury. On the flipside though, modern surgery would've fixed any injury he had.

Can't help but watch Tim Lincecum and think of Sandy. They both look so similar

[longbowgold67]

I would've liked to see him and Willie Mays duel

[savicolts45]

@longbowgold67 Mays hit .278, .426 On Base, 5 Homers, 14 RBI's, 25 Walks, 20 Strikeouts. Pretty even battle I'd say

[longbowgold67]

The first baseball game my dad ever saw was a Sandy Koufax game against the New York Mets in 1963. He was the most dominate pitcher he ever saw. He seemed to kick everybody's ass, and even if he didn't mean to embarrass you, it sure seemed they all walked away embarrassed for even trying to hit him.

[bettydaw1970]

this video is badass!!!

[bennyg0405]

1. if u have not seen koufax pitch, and u are in your 20's and 30's- u can not argue.... u have to ask some one who has seen koufax pitch in his era....they will tell you with no arguement that hes the best ever......2. willie mays, mantle, stargell, maris, and many other great players also called him the greatest pitcher ever.........quote by willie mays on koufax's 25-5 yr " it does not surprise me that he won 27 games...wat surprises me is that he lost 5

[bennyg0405]

@bennyg0405 typo on 27*

[dheeren62]

Koufax threw off a mound 5 inches higher his whole career, when Ryan was in his prime he threw off of the lower mound. Ryan never had much of a until he was traded to the Angels. Koufax took advantage of the higher mound by throwing nearly straight over the top as did many other pitchers of that time.

[louietheangelsfan]

wats the song

[Scoclamor]

@louietheangelsfan Green Onions by Booker T And The Mgs

[Scoclamor]

That curve on Maris!

Was that a strike @ 1:02? Mantle doesn't think so!

Look at em just blow a fastball past Oliva @ 1:10!

[judo7975]

somebody has got to figure out how fast he was throwing. somehow from all the footage of him pitching it can be calculated. was he throwing 105mph sometimes??

[kev6141]

Randy Johnson and Curt Schilling was an outstanding lefty-right combination in 2001... but from 1962-1966 Koufax and Drysdale.. nobody has ever had a one. two punch so dominant

[DejawoostA]

Sandy's prime > Nolan's prime

Hell, Sandys career > Nolan's career

[HueyRocks23]

It's always good to hear a young Vin Scully at 1:25

[mamala86]

KOUFAX HAD ARTRITHIS IN HIS PITCHING ARM! That is why he retired or else he would lose the use of his arm. It was not because of bad or poor mechanics; they did not too "evolve and change". It was his mechanics that allowed him to throw so damn hard. And the NR arguement is crazy. Ryan had control issues throughout his career. He never had an ERA under 2, much less 2.50. Koufax in his last season had an 1.74 ERA. He was the better pitcher. And Ryans only saving grace was a 100 MPH heater.

[tennisschools106]

its a crime ... like a rock star who dies early ... that's much of the reason he's got such a mythical status ... listen im from Philadelphia, and a baseball junkie but most of my life i had arguements with uncles over Sandy vs. Carlton, so I can go on forever in many directions, but I keep coming back to Sandy's mechanics&the fact that other great pitchers did evolve for longevity

[kev6141]

from 1962-1966 was the most dominant pitcher in baseball history. PERIOD

[Scoclamor]

@kev6141 I'd even say he was dominating in 1961. 18-13, 269 Ks and 3.52 ERA.

His 18 wins were 4th in the league (Spahn led with 21). His 269 Ks topped the MAJORS (Camilo Pascual was second with 221).

3.52 ERA? That's high on the surface, but the way ERAs were that year, it was good enough for 7th (Spahn led with a 3.02). He also topped the NL in fewest hits allowed per nine innings ( 7.5) K/BB ratio (2.8), K/9 (9.5).

[tennisschools106]

Listen Sandy is a blast to watch, surely one of the greatest ever ... that's why im here watching him over and over again ...i'm in awe, but his pitching mechanics, amazingly effective, needed to evolve and change ... pitching is a violent act that puts much stress on many body parts... maybe for whatever the reason he couldn't change ... and as we know now his body broke down because of it ... Nolan could and did and pitched a no-no in his mid 40's, just unreal, he perfected "perfect"

[ripperduck]

Yeah so, we're talking about who was better for a five year period of their career. Not about mechanics or who lasted the longest. No doubt what you said is true, but that's beside the point. SK may have been better than NR for a certain period of time. He was probably better in post season play. When we talk about who lasted longer then NR >SK. But that has nothing to do with this particular discussion.

[tennisschools106]

look how far and low that arm goes back before he starts it forward to release the ball ... you can imagine who much stress he puts on that shoulder, do watch it at the release poin ... look at a couple videos... he was a thing of beauty though ... like Van Gough, and other greats & geniuses who can just throw away the book on technique, same with Pete Maravich John McEnroe, and give us something we've never seen before that just glows

[SimpleStuff31]

actually his arm action was great. arm up in time for foot landing. elbow just below the shoulder. and his hip shoulder separation is rediculous.

[tennisschools106]

I just watched a video of Pistol Pete ... with some of the logic I've seen here, forgetting that Pete played on atrocious pro basketball teams ... pete for sure is the greatest basketball player ever ... don't let style fog your vision with the Koufax argument ... it certainly was beautiful and genius no doubt ... but no one make such observations about Nolan Ryan's efficient style that allowed him to stay amazing into mid 40's ... he pitched 7 no hitters, end of argument

[ripperduck]

No not end of argument. What was NR's winning %, his ERA at the start of his career, his walk/SO ratio, and on and on. Did he pitch a perfect game. ala SK? Plenty of metrics exist in which you can make your argument, but one that is the most important is how did pitchers do in post season play, when they faced the best of their time. I have no idea what NR's or SK's are, but that's more important a stat than just no hitters...

[ripperduck]

Greatest pitcher ever, in my humble opinion. What would have his records been if he had not been injured?

[tennisschools106]

sure but his mechanics got him hurt, thats his fault ... it the nature of a violent act ... Paige, Gibson, Ryan ... are all far superior, but for one game and or one season ... they are all the same ...

[ripperduck]

Maybe, but it wasn't until he was older that he even learned how to pitch. From what I read he played bball and didn't start as a pitcher.. The other three were great but from what I understand the five years of SK's prime he was the best. But if you can post stats that refute that then that would be the litmus test.

[whothehellgivesadamn]

anybody that doesn't understand that koufax was the greatest doesn't understand baseball, pitching or art in general

[SimpleStuff31]

@whothehellgivesadamn maddux was the greatest

[FuckMLBAdvancedMedia]

@whothehellgivesadamn randy johnson was better

[leahcimber]

Perfect balance...He finishes every pitch on balance and ready to field the ball.

[DejawoostA]

Mickey Mantle: "Everything they were writing about him is true."

Willie Mays: "Sandy would strike me out two or three times a game and I knew every pitch he was going to throw: fast ball, breaking ball. I knew it. He would let you look at it and still I could not hit it."

Willie Stargel: "Hitting against him is like eating soup with a fork."

Yogi Berra: "I can see how he won 25 games," on Sandy's 25-5 record in the 1963 season, "What I don't understand is how he lost five."

Sandy = G.O.A.T.

[squitzy]

The Jewish Kid segment. Great tribute to the best lefty of my lifetime. But it's a little convoluted. The first part of the clip shows SK pitching his PG against the Cubs. That is about all there is on film to this game. Later in the clip Vin Scully's voiceover of the PG shows a still of SK and the scoreboard. This is wrong! SK's PG was LA 1 Chi 0. Bob Hendley of the Cubs pitched a 1 hitter that night! Greatest pitched game ever! Google Doak Ewing or Baseball Ref. Doak has a load of rare films.

[SCMetro21]

It is an exerpt from a 9-part / hour documentary by Ken Burns...simply entitled "Baseball". It was released somewhere around the mid-90's.

[dylf14]

what documentary is this?

[TallRingo]

Ken Burns Baseball. A must-see....all nine innings of it.

[EricAnno]

"Your boyfriend had a few good years"

That, combined with the fact that your "arguments" are immature and quite wrong, and the fact that you still fail to respond to any of my points, added to the whole "you lie about everything and I always tell the truth" mentality that you obviously have make it quite difficult to take you seriously.

And that's why I don't take you seriously.

And that's also why you have lost...repeatedly.

[Brianjonestown]

LOL exactly how does that make me a homophobe? Because he's NOT your boyfriend??? THAT I have to hear.

You lost, kid. It's Koufax over Martinez. It was explained to you and you didn't understand. Not saying you didn't give it a shot, but it was an argument you couldn't win.

[EricAnno]

I didn't say that made you a homophobe. I said that made you immature. Just as assuming that I created another account just to argue with you, like you are so special.

I will ask a final time. Explain to me what makes me wrong.

Because you say so? That's more of your outstanding logic at work.

You fail to bring up any statistical evidence. You ignore every point I make, you lie to further your own points, and you deny every fact there is.

Martinez over Koufax at a peak. No question.

[Brianjonestown]

Koufax, the winner who had no peer, over Martinez the choker, who had several. No contest.

[Brianjonestown]

Actually, you did. You reprinted it to demonstrate I'm a homophobe, of which you accused me under your alias. You're addicted to lying. Go find a meeting.

[EricAnno]

No, I didn't. Tell me where I said it made you homophobe.

I specifically said that you cannot be taken seriously because of ridiculously childish insults like that one. Of course you, once again, decide to twist my words and accuse me of lying.

Typical.

Sorry buddy, but no matter how many times you repeat your bullshit accusations, it doesn't make you right. Or intelligent, for that matter.

And I am not the other person. Just because he also disagrees with you, doesn't make him me.

[Brianjonestown]

I JUST TOLD YOU, you stupid bastard. You couldn't leave it alone, agree to disagree. You had to push it over the line out of fear of being wrong, which you were to begin with, and now you're bleeding all over this page. Take your alter ego and give it a rest. You shouldn't be around adults.

[EricAnno]

Yeah, because you are definitely an adult. You have the maturity level of an eight-year-old (no longer a 12-year-old as I previously stated) and you decide to dodge points when questioned.

I'm not wrong, and you still fail to tell me how I am. You have been proven wrong numerous times, and you have given me zero statistical evidence that shows why Koufax is better. The postseason is one thing, but an entire era is another thing. A thing you fail to address, time and time again.

[Brianjonestown]

Good question...his records would likely have been stratospheric, but greatest all-time is enough for this guy. No pitcher before or since has brought mechanics and the will to win in such devastating tandem. He won a World Series game with one pitch. Today they'd just pull the pitcher early.

[Brianjonestown]

Oh, and Eric...it would be helpful if you posted under just one name, not multiple names to get me to respond. You want to talk maturity? You can start right there.

[JamespOwns]

You think I'm EricAnno? I was watching a video of Koufax (because as I mentioned before I'm a huge fan), and I saw this argument. I read through the posts and I saw that his comments were more well informed, and he had more valid points. Oh and by the way of the 5 pitchers, only Whitey Ford can compare to Pedro simply for the fact that the other four didn't win nearly as many games. If they had kept going, they more likely than not would have slacked off.

[SteelyDug]

44 years ago tonight...Sandy's perfect game versus the Cubbies!!!!!

[huggybobo88]

Sandy koufax better than cy walter johnson and EVERYONE greatest pither in the history of baseball if he continued his career who knows how many wins and k"s he could of had

[gc241]

For get it! Koufax was the Best! I met him twice and is to this day an icon.

[HOUSEOFFOURDOORS]

I was a kid when Koufax pitched, what fine memories.

[duffenstein]

There is no way that Pedro Martinez even touches Koufax. He wouldn't even touch Bob Gibson. All the stats you ever need to know on a pitcher is wins, losses, and ERA. Pedro couldn't touch Koufax. Nobody could. All the other stats are crap. Just like saves stuff made up to get more money.

[HOUSEOFFOURDOORS]

I agree, Koufax was the best..

Koufax was on a team that could not hit

[eaglesyz]

If Pedro Martinez had to pitch complete games like Koufax and Gibson, his stats

would not be so impressive heck, he

would not have lasted half a season so I

wholeheartedly agree with you that he could not touch Koufax or Gibson...or

Drysdale and Carlton for that fact.

[EricAnno]

Wins and losses are the absolute worst stats to judge a pitcher by.

That destroys your entire argument. If you really believe that wins and losses are legitimate stats that show how great a pitcher is, you don't know baseball.

Yeah, wins and losses are better than made-up shit like WHIP and ERA+. You're obviously right.

[Brianjonestown]

And since you're the ace of intangibles, how about: Koufax was a winner and Martinez a loser. The Yankees busted his heart and he went down like a bitch in the '03 ALCS; he even admitted this in his bizarre "Daddy" speech. When the Dodgers needed a win at any cost, Koufax was on the mound, but the Sox relied on Schilling. And why exactly did baseball lower the mound? Koufax's career. Yet MLB did not change the rules to protect batters from Martinez. Why not? Hmmm....you lose again, kiddo.

[EricAnno]

Once again, you keep giving me one game at a time.

The Sox relied on Schilling all the time? In your own words, that is "something you cannot possibly know, yet stated as fact".

Koufax was most certainly not the sole reason why they lowered the mound, yet you try to pass that off as fact too. They lowered the mound because the league BA was .243 (NL) and .230 (AL) in 1968, and because seven pitchers had ERAs under 2.00. The '60s were a FAR easier era for pitchers, as opposed to the '90s.

[Brianjonestown]

Yes, it was Koufax's dominance that forced the league to reconsider; no, you haven't proven a significant difference between the eras, so your "common knowledge" tossoff is just that; no, and as I wrote, they only relied on Schilling for must-win situations because Martinez was not a winner. You keep lying about "one game", but okay, how about 27 games? In one season. While he both tipped pitches and played in 24/7 screaming arthritic pain, winning his third Cy Young for both leagues.

[EricAnno]

No, it wasn't solely Koufax. It was exactly what I said, the fact that the leagues were hitting an all-time low .230 and .243. Seven pitchers had ERAs below 2.00, and this was after Koufax's retirement. The strike zone was enormous, which also gave Koufax an advantage.

How am I lying? You have given me examples of three games, one that Koufax pitched and Pedro's two games in the 2003 ALCS. That's it. Please, tell me what else you have brought up.

How about five seasons of a 200 ERA+?

[Brianjonestown]

And no, it was not "exactly what you said", it was your opinion and I disagreed. Look, you don't know much about the game, which is not a bad thing, but if you make a ridiculous assertion it doesn't help when you defend it in kind. For example, you lean on intangibles and stats only when favoring Martinez; plus I addressed your arguments in my every post, only to be met with "you gave me nothing" every turn. When losing, you just claim victory. Too bad. It was a worthwhile argument.

[EricAnno]

How do I not know much about the game? Please explain.

You have addressed ZERO of my points. I brought up the fact that Martinez had a much better ERA+ during his peak. You haven't addressed that. I brought up the steroids-era, you haven't addressed that. I brought up the fact that Koufax pitched in a pitcher's park and Pedro in a hitter's park, you haven't addressed that.

Please, tell me how I don't know much about the game. Your childish insults when you are proven wrong are getting old.

[Brianjonestown]

LOL I'm not insulting you, kid -- you just argue like a child. I actually did address your points but you don't listen. So if you're upset you couldn't goad me into a strawman argument about era vs era helping neither side, tough shit. If you think the Sox' reluctance to start Martinez in tight situations is "irrelevant", then you're either insane or 10 years old. The fact that Martinez was a choker makes his ERA+ sexy but useless, and it outweighs Koufax leaving Brooklyn for LA.

[EricAnno]

Repeatedly calling me "kid" (despite the fact that I am apparently more mature than you) and telling me that I argue like a child is insulting, and it shows personal weakness.

You haven't addressed any of my points. Please point out where you have. I compared eras (stats show that Koufax's era was substantially easier than Pedro's) and you say that it's impossible for us to know. Yet you bring up the mound-lowering and say it was all because of Koufax, something that it impossibly to know.

[JamespOwns]

Oh and one more thing buddy, if you had to tag the reason why the mound was lowered to one person, it would be Bob Gibson more than Koufax... 22-9 With an ERA somewhere around 1.10, oh and a mere 13 shutouts.

But yes, the mound was lowered because hitters in the sixties had a far lower average BA....

[Brianjonestown]

Looking over your responses -- not only do you claim victory long after you lose, but you twist your opponents' words as well. Anyway, one more thing: your strike zone comments are total bullshit. While by no means "enormous" (lol), it was bigger back then, and every single pitcher in the majors had an opportunity to exploit it. Yet Koufax dominated his contemporaries in a way not seen since, not close. If they ever change the rules for Pedro, it will be a ban on super-talented tailspin losers.

[EricAnno]

Where have I claimed victory? Where have I twisted your words?

The strike zone was from the top of the armpit to the bottom of your knee. How is that not enormous compared to this era's? I didn't say that was the prime reason (talk about twisting words, pal) that Koufax was great, I just said that it was an easier era for pitchers, which it most certainly was.

Really? Not seen since, huh? Pedro had a far greater peak in a far more difficult era.

Your "arguments" are wearing thin, kid.

[Brianjonestown]

"I didn't say that was the prime reason (talk about twisting words, pal)"-- I never accused you of saying that and you know it. Or maybe you don't know it after all...you're starting to babble, twisting even where you accuse others of the same. The only thing you've demonstrated is you refuse to listen. Pitchers were stronger even in a pitchers' era -- WHOA, imagine that! Your boyfriend had a few good years but he'll never be in the same league as Koufax, Gibson or even Maddux. Suck it up..

[EricAnno]

You chose not to address the lack of offense and the advantage that a heightened mound gives the pitcher, but the one thing you chose to take away from that was the large strike zone.

Exactly, it was a pitcher's era. There were numerous advantages given to Koufax. Pedro had a number of things going against him, yet he still managed to be more dominant then Koufax. Pedro dominated in a hitter's era.

Thanks for showing that you have a 12-year-old's maturity level. Kid.

[Brianjonestown]

I neither twisted your words (regarding Schilling) nor stated my opinions as fact. I did point out that your opinion is full of holes, plus you ignored everything that didn't make your hero Martinez look great (sorry, I'm not on a first-name basis with him like you). Unlike Martinez, Koufax was in a class by himself AND a winner of clutch games. There was no one close to him, unlike Maddux, Clemens and Johnson who were at Martinez' level. The fact is, you REALLY hate Koufax. And that's okay.

[EricAnno]

We were NEVER talking about Schilling, and I never claimed that you twisted my words regarding Schilling. You twisted my words when you brought up the larger strike zone.

We are not talking about who was the better pitcher. What I brought up, specifically, is who had the greater peak. Pedro's numbers, such as WHIP and ERA+ are far better than Koufax's.

Yeah, you're right. I completely despise Koufax. It makes sense, considering I am a Dodgers fan and he is my background.

Yeah...

[Brianjonestown]

Whoa...that made even less sense than usual for you. You did not understand my post, and you're not only not listening, you're trying to shift the basis of the argument while continuing to lie. Go home and stick pins into your Koufax voodoo doll. You lost and you're finished here.

[EricAnno]

You tell me all these things about me:

"you claim victory"

"you just argue like a child"

"you're either insane or 10 years old"

Yet they all perfectly describe you. Whenever you want to avoid what I say, you tell me I don't make sense. You repeatedly tell me that I don't listen, despite the fact that you have not brought up any points that are remotely decent or worth listening to. You keep telling me I'm lying, yet I have not said anything that is not supported by stats.

You fail.

[Brianjonestown]

LOL yawn...I didn't win the argument, you lost it long before I had the chance. By all means keep screaming till you drop, but sooner or later you have to learn how to let go, to agree to disagree.

[EricAnno]

Please explain to me how I lost. I would love to hear more of your brilliant logic.

[JamespOwns]

BrianJonestown you're wrong, admit it. Did Koufax have more dominant days? Yes. Is he an overall better pitcher? No. Pedro's ERA is lower, his WHP is lower. I'm a huge Koufax Fan, but Martinez is just on a level by himself. And the thing that I love about ignorant people like you is that you are homophobic, and you turn to unintelligent insults because you lost in a far argument. Good Argument EricAnno, oh and Brian, Pedro is 216-99. Find me someone as good, why don't you.

[Brianjonestown]

Found what you wanted: there are currently five pitchers with a better career winning percentage than Martinez; if he keeps trying to come back , his percentage will likely fall below both Clemens and Koufax, who will both be judged as far greater pitchers than Martinez, who couldn't win a clutch game even if the other team didn't show up. I won the argument, and if you call me a homophobe, you can't be taken seriously in any argument.

[EricAnno]

You continue to say that you won the argument (though you clearly did not), yet you don't answer my question.

I asked you, kindly, to explain to me why I lost. As I said, I would love to hear your brilliant logic at work once again. You failed to respond the first time, I hope you do this time.

"and if you call me a homophobe, you can't be taken seriously in any argument"

Coming from the guy who said:

[HOUSEOFFOURDOORS]

Koufax delivers game 7 and the championship on two days rest.

Retires at age 30.

It remains a testament to Koufax's unique greatness that other still seek to compare others to him.

So often it is transparent or funny..

Thanks for all the e-mails everyone, leave the name calling and insults to the desparate. Just continue to laugh at the predictability until the amusement subsides..

Cheers

[HOUSEOFFOURDOORS]

Koufax on 2 days rest beats the Twins in game 7 1965 . Gutty performance, had to abandon his 2 and go with 1's for most of the game. A complete game and shut out. Says it all.......

Cheers

[EricAnno]

Pedro Martinez, 1999 playoffs, arm injury and complete inability to throw his fastball or changeup in the strike zone, throws six no-hit innings against the uber-powerful Cleveland Indians with just a curveball.

Pedro was better than Koufax, no question.

[Brianjonestown]

Koufax started game 7 of the '65 Series on two days' rest and couldn't throw the curve, so he delivered a 3-hit shutout with 10 strikeouts using just one pitch. He tipped his pitches through the '66 season and still won 27 games; if Martinez (or anyone) tipped his pitches, he'd be shelled out of baseball. So get your head out of your ass. Martinez is a legend and Koufax was the greatest ever to play the game.

[EricAnno]

My head out of my ass? You gave me one game. That's it.

I gave you ERA+, WHIP, and a slew of other stats. Koufax pitched in a much easier era, with a higher mound (thus giving the pitchers an advantage), at a pitcher's park. Pedro Martinez pitched in the toughest offensive era in the history of baseball, in a very hitter-friendly ballpark, in a time with the DH and numerous chemically-enhanced sluggers.

Add that to the stats, and Pedro is clearly batter. Get your head out of your ass.

[Brianjonestown]

I gave you much more than one game, kid. And anyhow you just gave six innings, so what part of "you're wrong" isn't getting to you? Koufax's stats have intimidated you to a point where you're desperate to shore up support for Martinez. That's cool, but try not to bleed all over us doing it: your opinions are delivered as gospel fact, which kills your argument ab initio. "Toughest offensive era" versus "easier era"?? Something you cannot possibly know, yet stated as fact. Plus...

[EricAnno]

No, you actually didn't. You posted a single game and still have failed to give me absolutely zero statistical evidence. I have given you a number of stats, but you fail to acknowledge any of them, and just tell me I'm wrong.

It's common knowledge that the 1960s was a terrible offensive era. It's also common knowledge that the 'roided-up 1990s was by far the most difficult time for a pitcher.

So, the fact that you have not given me any reasons why Koufax is better, your argument is dead.

[Brianjonestown]

I'll also take the 4 no-hitters over Martinez's zero. Pedro Martinez was a protean talent who had a few crazy dominating years and faded because he was a crybaby and a head case. So if my argument's dead, yours was never alive. You either refuse to listen or you dismiss what you can't accept. I'd admit I do that too, but your pathological choice of Martinez over Koufax makes it far too easy. We're done here. Deny to oblivion, for it will never be true.

[EricAnno]

Sandy Koufax's career high in ERA+ is 190. Pedro Martinez topped that five times. His personal life and attitude are completely irrelevant. Whether or not he was a head case means nothing.

Sandy Koufax had seven average to below-average seasons, had some dominating seasons and then retired. How does that make him any different then Pedro?

How am I refusing to listen? You have given zero, ZERO statstical evidence that proves your constant assertion. Absolutely none.

[EricAnno]

Pedro Martinez had a far more dominating five-year stretch, considering the era in which he pitched, the league in which he pitched, and the ballpark in which he pitched. If people want to try to make a case as Sandy as the greatest of all-time (and as a Dodgers fan, he's one of the my favorite players ever) then you have to make a bigger case for Pedro.

[HOUSEOFFOURDOORS]

What years (5 year stretch) do you have in mind for Martinez? Let's start with that.

Cheers

[EricAnno]

1999-2003.

[HOUSEOFFOURDOORS]

While Martinez was the best for a nice stretch, the claim of Martinez having a "far more dominating five-year stretch" the Koufax can not be supported..

Cheers

[EricAnno]

Koufax: 111-34, .766, 1.95 ERA, 167 ERA+, .926 WHIP, 9.4 K/9, 4.57 K/BB, 6.3 H/9

Pedro: 82-21, .796, 2.10 ERA, 228 ERA+, .905 WHIP, 11.6 K/9, 6.66 K/BB, 6.4 H/9

Ok, now tell me why that cannot be supported. The two best stats for a pitcher's dominance is ERA+ and WHIP, both of which Pedro leads. He also leads in K's per 9, K's per BB, BB's per 9, and HR/9.

Please, do explain your logic...

[HOUSEOFFOURDOORS]

Thanks for the cherry picked stats.

Martinez might be sitiing on the bench in innings 7,8,9 resting his arm while Koufax had 100 complete games Pedro had 18.

Koufax 33 shutouts Pedro 5..

Innings Koufax 1376 Pedro 931

CYA Koufax 3 PM 2

Cheers

[EricAnno]

I cherry picked stats?

You use complete games and shutouts, both of which were far more common in Koufax's day.

I find it absolutely hilarious that you say that I cherry pick stats (when I post nearly every important pitching stat imaginable) and yet all you post is complete games, shutouts, and innings.

[MilesofColtrane]

I just wanted to add on that most people forget or don't realize that when Koufax won his cy young awards only one pitcher was chosen for the whole league. Not one for the American and one for the National leagues, as is done today

[HOUSEOFFOURDOORS]

You are right!! Well said, thank you..

[ripperduck]

Damn I didn't know that. Thanks for the info....

[HOUSEOFFOURDOORS]

"Far more dominating five year stretch"

[6749er]

I'm from SF Bay & was 8 when the Giants moved west in 1958 & I don't like the Dodgers but Sandy Koufax is the greatest pitcher I've ever seen.

[ZRP7]

I think you can make the arguement that Sandy Koufax is the greatest pitcher of all time. He was the better than everyone else even with a damaged arm. He was never at 100% during his career. Look what he did in those six seasons. He might have broken every single pitching record had his career lasted longer.

[koasti]

In his Cy Young winning years, Sandy led the major leagues in wins, strikeouts, and ERA. He probably couldn't pitch in today's game because no one could afford him. Put another way, THE BEST EVER.

[newjersey421]

I was born in 1967, 10 years too late, to have seen Koufax pitch. But from everything I've seen and heard about Koufax, I would find it hard, to find a more dominating pitcher, over a 5 year stretch. It's just a shame, his career had to be cut short, due to injury. SIMPLY AMAZING !!!

[ftworthxxx]

Sandy is my hero for all time, he was always MONEY IN THE BANK.

[lee1bama]

"Now nothing seemed to stop him!!!" Ha!!! God that's so awesome!!! Cue Booker T. and the MGs with some Green Onions!!! Man I could watch this all day!! Sandy the Dandy - best damn pitcher who ever lived!!!!!!!!!!

[lee1bama]

Koufax was great and all, but he's got nothing on Mitch "Wild Thing" Williams

[raahr]

hahhahah. or what about the real wild thing the struggling alcoholic with inch thick glasses that used to throw a wild pitch into the backstop to warm up. I can't remebember his name Rick vaughn was based on this guy.

[buckfan1969]

The relief pitcher with the thick glasses was Ryne Duren. Hitters were scared to death of him. He was half blind out there and threw 95+ mph.

[raahr]

yes that is him and his baseball card will most certainly be my avatar if I ever have to use an avatar in the future.

[squitzy]

The still that goes with Scully's audio about the perfect game is wrong! It shows LA leading 8-0 with 12 hits. The perfect game was against Bob Hendley and the Cubs. Hendley pitched a 1 hitter that night and lost!! You can look it up.

[ADEAL416]

I do believe that was the only time in baseball history that two teams have combined for one hit in a nine inning game.

[ripperduck]

One of the things folks don't know about Koufax was that he had HUGE hands. Monsters and had great strength. It was that major asset, his hand size and strength, that allowed him to whip that ball at amazing speed. He was a basketball player as a young man and from what I heard, he had major hops. Could easily slam it back in his teens. Tremendous athlete.

[squitzy]

Saw him pitch only on TV. I have a DVD of the 5th game of the 1965 WS (entire game including commercials). Good Lord, could he throw a curve! At dinner with my younger brother ( former pro lefty pitcher) and my young kids 2 years ago I asked him who was the best pitcher in his lifetime. After 2 or 3 seconds,he responded, without any solicitation, Koufax! SK will always be my hero. He was over-powering. Not a head-hunter as so many were. A true gentleman. Thanks for the memories, Mr. Koufax!

[ADEAL416]

What's even crazier from that '65 series is if you look at Game 7 only two days later. You commented on his curveball--well in Game 7 the announcers were commenting that he couldn't get his curveball over at all in the first couple of innings, so he basically stopped using it and pitched the rest of the game using all fastballs, and still pitched a three-hit shutout.

[squitzy]

There is an audio of Koufax talking about Game 7 right after it was over and he admitted that his curve wasn't working that day and went to the fastball alone. YouTube (verb) "When It Was a Game III, Part 3". Great comment from Jim Kaat about SK. Kaat said that he threw every pitch like it was the last out in the 9th. Another great comment from Aaron. And Henry hit the best vs SK if you look it up on Baseball Reference. Also the WIWAG clip shows him toss an incredible changeup curve for a K!!

[ADEAL416]

Not just an audio. If you download that game on iTunes (it's under "Baseball's Best") they actually show that interview after the game with him and Vin Scully. Scully started the interview by reminding him that he had said after winning Game 5 that he "felt a hundred years old" and asked him "so today, how do you feel" and Koufax's sly reply was "a hundred and one!"

[Kevincigarman]

I was able to see him pitch in 1963 as a young boy in Houston against the Colt 45s in 1963. Mr. Koufax's life story is a testimonial to what is good about life and have admiration to his post baseball life and not becoming a celeb seeking money. Maybe I might catch a glimpse of him at an airport during my weekly travels out of Atlanta? I'm still that boy in 1963 when I think of Sandy Koufax! God Bless

[MrHaroldG2000]

"Trying to hit Koufax was like trying to drink coffee with a fork."

Willie Stargell

[jcvelina]

Stargell was not talking about Koafax. He was talking about Steve Carlton and his devastating slider.

[iajoe]

That was a great memory.

[iajoe]

I'd remember that all my life.

[halbie71]

No B.S., I swear to God I saw him pitch his perfect game 9/9/1965. I was with my Dad & my Uncle Carl. We sat in the top deck at Dodger Stadium,. I was 12 years old at the That was the only time I saw him pitch (Besides TV).

[squitzy]

Great that you looked at this Tube. See? It still means something to you. I envy you. I wish I was there that night. I saw Mantle, Mays, Ford, Kaline, Aparicio and Fox, Killebrew, Berra, Ryan as an Angel and lots of others. But I NEVER saw Koufax except on TV. Must have been brilliant to behold.