I believe the LDS Church is the only true and living church upon the face of the earth, this is Gods Church and it is the ONLY church run by God. I also believe the Book of Mormon is TRUE and that Joseph Smith was a true prophet! Thomas S. Monson is the prophet today and I am soo glad I have my Church! We base alot of our decisions on Faith and it is worth it! I'm glad I am LDS (CHRISTIAN) because It gives me hope and through my Faith, good works and the grace of God I will be saved.
@CTR831 I do know what Mormons teach because I was one for twenty years. I have challenged your claim that Jesus is YHWH- the god of the Old Testament- but you have attempted to circumvent my argument by responding to it. Mormon leaders claim that Jesus is the god of the OT: we are agreed on that? I am arguing- based on all the OT and NT scholars I can think of- that Jesus consciously prayed to and worshipped the god of israel. He prayed to YHWH, but you say he was/is YWHW. PROBLEM!
There is a further problem. Jesus claimed to be someone who prayed to and worshipped the God of Israel (YHWH); so did he perhaps pray to himself and worship himself? Trinitarians can make sense of this because Jesus had both a human and a divine nature, so was the human nature that prayed to YHWH not the divine nature.
@bayreuth79 The Name is the term for God. 1 GOD, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
@CTR831 You are quoting Mormon teaching to me as though it possessed some kind of authority; it doesn't. If you want to be an honest debater, as I have been, you must answer the following. If Jesus is YHWH (god of OT) then why did he cry out on the cross to YHWH? You cannot respond that he was not crying out to YHWH but to God the Father because he used the word "Eloi, Eloi", which is a quote from a Psalm ADDRESSED to YHWH.
Trinitarianism can deal with this because of the two natures of Jesus.
@CTR831 Jesus is the God of the OT? There is a rather serious problem here, I'm afraid. Joseph Smith and other Mormon Leaders have said repeatedly that prayer and worship should be directed to God the Father alone. Mormon's believe that they pray through Jesus, in a certain sense ("In the name of your Son, Jesus Christ, Amen"). But if Jesus is the God of the OT (YHWH, not Jehovah, as this is an inaccurate later reconstruction of the name) then he commanded them to pray to him & worship him...
@CTR831 This makes no sense as a response. Yet again you are simply projecting Mormon beliefs onto the bible; and it just won't do I'm afraid. You are verse picking! I could do the same if I chose. For instance, Paul in 1 Corinthians chapter 7 advises some people to remain permanently unmarried, as he was himself. Bruce McConkie has tried to circumvent this by saying his marriage comments were addressed to missionaries; but no where in the letter does Paul mention missionaries (there is not even
CTR ...a hint of missionaries); and because he was clearly referring to a permanent option to remain unmarried. So it looks like Paul was teaching the opposite of "Eternal Marriage", that fiction invented by J Smith.
Jesus also mentions celibacy in the context of a discussion about marriage. "There are some who make themselves Eunuchs for the Kingdom of God's sake. Let them receive it who can receive it". Again "Eunuch" clearly refers to a permanent condition; and missionaries are not hinted at.
@bayreuth79 ... I don't think you actually know LDS doctrine as much as you like to believe. Jesus Is the The God of the Old Testament. The Father hath given judgment to The Son to Judge the World. Isaiah 9:6
@CTR831 It is far more complex than you seem to think. You forget that the Jews of Jesus' day and before were radical monotheists; they passionately believed in One God. The New Testament language about "Father, Son and Holy Spirit" has to be read within this context. You cannot even begin to understand Jesus without placing him within his social and religious context. He was a first-century Jew! It evident that "Father, Son & HS" in the NT is the form of Christian monotheism, not pluralism.
@bayreuth79 ... John 5:17 ¶ But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.
18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
@bayreuth79 ... 20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.
21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.
22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
@CTR831 I've heard all this before. You are referring to the so-called subordinationist language that is sometimes predicated of Jesus in the Gospels. St Augustine in 'De Trinitate' has already dealt with this in the fifth-century. I refer you to that book for a fully developed response; but I'll briefly answer you. If you look at what Chalcedon actually says you will notice that it teaches Jesus has two natures in one person. Therefore, the easy answer is that its Jesus' human nature that prays
@bayreuth79 ... Well u believe that He was Praying 2 himself. & u just state that I am wrong. So you believe the Prophet St Augustine? Is that what he is? you know I know you don't think he is but you believe his words; you could say LDS is wrong Because it is the words of a man... the test is Will you pray otherwise u r relying on the words of a man and not on God. And as I said you do know much. I am glad to hear of your great heritage and that you do study. Remember Prayer also...
@CTR831 Do you think that Mormons are the only people who pray?! That is extraordinary arrogance; but this is something I've come to expect from Mormons. Of course I pray; and for your information I prayed to know whether Mormonism is true for many years; but I never received a reply! There is a reason for this: "Mormonism" is a demonstrably false religion. It is both idolatrous and blasphemous, not to mention fundamentalist in many respects. If you think God is an exalted man: this is idolatry.
@CTR831 I cannot reciprocate as I genuinely believe that you are in a false religion- one that was invented by Joseph Smith. And, yes, I know he was persecuted! But so were other false prophets like David Koresh; in fact, David Koresh had a similar fate to J Smith! Just because someone is persecuted doesn't necessarily mean they are sincere; and it definitely doesn't mean that one they believe is true. Muhammad & his followers were persecuted for many years in Arabia...
@bayreuth79 ... Duck and weave as much as you like. the word of a man as opposed to doing what the bible directs and that is to ask of God. so the religion you follow is of non reciprocation. what a loss.
@CTR831 I am not sure what this means: "Duck and weave as much as you like"? This comment seems to assume that I am a sophist not interested in the truth. If this is what you think, I'm afraid you are mistaken.
You believe that Joseph Smith was a prophet. Correct? The question, though, is: how can you be sure he was a prophet? If he wasn't a prophet- but a false prophet- then it is you who is following "the word of man". I ask you: where does the bible teach "eternal marriage"? No where...
Matthew 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Genesis 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
Mark 10:9 What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder'
@bayreuth79 ... 1 Cor. 11:11 neither is the man without the woman ... in the Lord.
The time to marry is while in mortality, as it is the purpose for which we are here. there will be provision made for those who would have but through no fault of their own, have not.
@bayreuth79 ... What I meant was; I know this things of myself because of the Scripture- promise in James 1:5. I ask Will you pray and ask God in the sincerity of heart if what you believe is true. You have studied a great deal, will you pray and ask Heavenly Father If it is True For that is what we are to do.
@CTR831 Where does the bible teach that God the Father is an exalted man? No where. Where does the bible teach that there is such a thing as "intelligences"? No where... The list could be expanded 'ad infinitum'... Besides, why are you trying to prove "Mormonism" from the Bible? Are you not aware that Joseph Smith believed this to be true only in so far as it has been translated correctly? In other words, he believed that it had been corrupted over the course of time.
@bayreuth79 ,,, It says in the New Testament that Jesus would be called a Nazarene. Matthew 2:23 And he came and welt in a city called Nazareth: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophets, He shall be called a Nazarene. can you find that in the old testament? No - because it is a lost scripture.
@bayreuth79 ... Just after stating that Christ would be received until the times of restitution of all things it states in Acts 3:22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.
@bayreuth79 ... Matthew 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
29 And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit ceverlasting life.
@CTR831 What you are doing is what all fundamentalists do: you isolate biblical verses from their literary and historical context and then project your own denominations interpretation onto that particular verse. This is the essence of fundamentalism; and it is naive in the extreme.
There are no Old or New Testament scholars who agree with you in anything you say, I'm afraid. You are projecting the naive interpretations of J Smith onto the Bible. I feel sorry for you.
@bayreuth79 the ... with reference to this comment you have made here, it is an example of teach your children to love and serve one another. Am I my brothers keeper. Yes we are.
@bayreuth79 ... Again I say are you too interested in what you have learnt to humbly ask God what is true? Is my interpretation of the scriptures wrong? Well then I ask you to do as I have done and Ask God the Eternal Father If I am wrong. Lean not to thine own understanding but in all things Acknowledge Him. You really can’t know until You ask him instead of relying on the words of Men. Let him ask of God.
@CTR831 Yes, of course. Your interpretation of scripture is wrong. When interpreting scripture you need to situate the verse in question within its literary, socio-political and religious context. You cannot isolate passages from their context. Jesus was a monotheistic Jew.
I was raised in 'Mormonism'; in fact, my dad was Stake President while I was growing up. I've personally met Pres Hinckley, Pres Monson and Pres Faust... I decided to leave this religion when I was twenty because its false!
With reference to Genesis: you are referring to "Bereshit bara elohim." (In the beginning God [or the gods].); but the problem here is that "elohim" is used both for "god" and "gods", so the word can be both singular and plural. Whatever the correct interpretation, it coheres with trinitarianism, which includes the notion of plurality within the being of God. What it DOES NOT cohere with is Joseph Smith's teaching that Elohim is the PERSONAL name of God the Father!!!
@bayreuth79 so we have the translation that is both God and gods and the 'us' to clarify which translation it is. Jesus Created this earth under the direction of Heavenly Father, and gave all to atone for it making Him Saviour and redeemer Glorifying the Father by the greatest act of Love there is. totally unselfish. Heavenly Father is all loving and can not die so who was left to atone for us-knowing that there was a fall and need for a resurrection. there was only one the saviour without fault
@CTR831 The question is: from where do you derive your interpretation of Genesis? And the answer is not from a close reading of the text but from Joseph Smith. Yet again you are simply projecting Smith's teaching onto the Genesis text. "Bereshit bara elohim", "In the Beginning was God [or the gods]". This could equally well cohere with trinitarianism; in fact, that is precisely how it was interpreted by the Church Fathers.
I notice that you have not tried to answer my point about "Eloihim"...
@bayreuth79 ... I did answer it. refer to - So we have the translation that is both God and gods and the Us Us US US US US US US. I am beginning to think you are a pro at this. you Know but you love what you think for what ever reason.
@CTR831 ... Jo Smith had taught that "Eloihim" is the personal name of God the Father; but of course the word just means "god" or "gods". This is a problem for your "interpretation" of Genesis. If "Eloihim" means "the gods" (as you claim) then it cannot also be the personal name of God the Father, which is what Jo Smith claimed. So which is it??!!
The word "Eloihim" is also used when referring to the false, idolatrous "gods" of the pagans as well; clearly Jo Smith was mistaken about this word!
@CTR831 ... to demand payment from someone else or to simply let the person off without repayment at all?! Clearly, the latter would be more forgiving. Indeed, this seems to be the meaning of the Prodigal Son parable. The father in this parable does not demand restitution from the son (or from someone on his behalf); he simply rushes out with open arms to the son who has come back to him. No sacrificial victim required.
Your problem is to fail to recognize that your interpretation of 3:16 is...
@bayreuth79 ... Heavenly Father is omnipotent; is there any loss in giving strength to those who serve Him or is that gain? Satan wanted all the power himself to be as God but His idea was to be higher than God, not one with God. Children have the potential to become like their parents. The Prodigal Son returned (Repented) and the father received Him.
@CTR831 Hmmm. You seem to be confused. Omnipotence means to possess all-power; you cannot predicate omnipotence of a 'god' if there are other 'gods' who share power amongst themselves. That is by definition not omnipotence.
Yes, exactly: the Prodigal son returned and was received by the father. The problem from a 'Mormon' point of view is that this parable seems to go against a literalistic interpretation of the atonement. Why could God not forgive us directly, without a sacrificial victim?
@bayreuth79 ... I've answered your question in detail though you seem to have a problem for every solution, and to the first part of this multi circular question? James 1:5 Do you honestly think That preparing your obedient child to co inherit something you have is any loss.? It is only an increase in both purpose and Joy. Is that not the will of any parent to see that their child grows to the full stature of what the parent is. Christ showed how we should be Totally loving. See John 15:13
@bayreuth79 ... The payment was not demanded, it was required to overcome Sin and death. In giving His Life He gained it. He who shall save his life shall lose it. I think you are looking at Heavenly Father as taking But No it Is Jesus Giving for us; Winning the war against Satan, the adversary. When Something needs to be done do we pray to god and expect Him to do it all for us? Are we to be unprofitable. Do we all not Die and hope for a resurrection?
@CTR831 Hmmm. You are simply reading 'Mormon' doctrine back into the texts of the Old and New Testaments. Please read this book in context
The question then is why was payment required to overcome sin? In what sense does Jesus dying horribly on a cross pay our debts to God? More importantly, why is it that God requires a victim to repay our debts? This makes sense metaphorically, not literally. If God needs to be repaid, then he is not forgiving; if he needs an innocent victim, he is not just.
@CTR831 With reference to John 3:16 you are again reading later "Mormon" teaching regarding the atonement. You are presupposing that Father, Son and Holy Spirit refer to more than one "god". However, the whole bible- including the New Testament- presupposes Jewish monotheism. This is why the baptismal formula reads "In the NAME of the Father, Son & Holy Spirit" and not "In the NAMES of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit". If "Mormon" were true it would make grammatical sense to say "names" (plural)
@bayreuth79 ... Do you know what a mediator is? Someone who pays your debt and sets the terms for which payment is to be made. You know a lot. But you still have not answered - do you think Jesus would pray to himself. Jesus gave himself for all of us, you and me, a price we could not pay ourselves. Are you too interested in backing up what you believe without asking God if it is true.
@CTR831 ... makes their corruption all the more insidious. Jesus reasons (in 10:34) that if sinful authorities are given a divine title because of their duties, how much more is he entitled to it who is guiltless & who speaks the words of God.
This is the proper contextual analysis of 10:34; and it does not cohere with 'Mormon' teaching. The shepherds of Israel referred to were corrupt, not morally perfect 'gods' in the 'Mormon' sense; and, besides, it was clearly a metaphor.
@bayreuth79 ... It is not LDS Doctrine to say that Jesus was saying morally Perfect but rather The children of God, To follow in their Fathers footsteps. as you will note from your reading, Jesus referred to some as Children of Satan because they would rather follow Sin rather than Righteousness.
@CTR831 This is a naive response, I'm afraid. John 10:34 does not mean what you think they mean. You are reading later "Mormon" teaching back it scripture. 10:34 is a quotation from Psalm 82:6. The Psalm is a prayer to Yahweh to punish the corrupt shepherds of Israel. These leaders, who are charged with teaching & enforcing the divine law, are called "gods" by the Psalmist because of the divine authority they wield over the people, so it is metaphorical language. The abuse of this power makes...
@bayreuth79 ... Jesus says 'I and the Father are one' Which means one in purpose they are separate people. Read John chapter 17 particularly 21. Heavenly Father is no more one in substance than all those he is praying for. You are not your parents. God is God because he is just, merciful, righteous, omnipotent, omniscient, and all loving. If he was not he would not be God, yet He always is Perfect in all things.
@CTR831 The problem, of course, is that the "Mormon" god cannot be omnipotent. Omni= all; potent = power. All-Power. But, of course, Mormomism, believes that there are many "gods", so god the father (in Mormonism) cannot possess ALL-Power, but only a share of power.
The classical definition of God in Christianity is this: "that than which nothing greater can be conceived"; but of course I can think of a greater god than the Mormon god...
@bayreuth79 ... This scripture explains the Love of both Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ where both Abraham and Isaac yield to the will of God. it is in similitude Of the sacrifice both Heavenly Father gave and Christ also. Genesis 22, the entire chapter. To understand the own heart felt personal sacrifice Jesus gave it to both understand the own heart felt personal sacrifice Heavenly Father gave.
@bayreuth79 ... Heavenly Father loved us so much that He sent His Righteous Son to show us how to live and to give even when the blame is not our own. too many times contention persists because one person seeks revenge from others because they believe it was not fair what the other person did to them. though Jesus showed us True Love.
@bayreuth79 ... Jesus showed By his example of obedience to Gods Laws, Jesus had no fault yet he was willing to pay the price for our sins. This is the Love of God. that no greater friend hath man than this That a man be willing to lay down his life for his friends.
@bayreuth79 ...there is much more to cover this point. though at this time to address your comment about Heavenly Father sending Jesus. Heavenly Father is Immortal and cannot die. Jesus willingly gave his life and was resurrected thus making it possible for all those who believe and honestly strive to do there best and endure to inherit eternal life (exaltation).
Jesus prayed in the garden of Gethsemane as recorded in John 17 :3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. Jesus was not Praying to himself.
I feel the love of God so overwhelmingly and for some reason I am so sorry for my sins, for some reason I don't feel clean and I wish to do everything it takes to be clean and worthy.
if you really spend your entire life being overly religious, think of how much things you could do. you live one life. do anything you want stop wasting your time with useless stuff such a god and church. just think have your prayers been answered? if there is a god why have so many loved one's been lost due to other stranger's decisions? why would he let this happen? oh yeahh he isnt real!
big message from the lds to their people....god loves us...we dont need to live in big houses...tents will do...NOW BROTHER AND SISTER MOMONS GIVE US YOUR %10 OF EVERYTHING YOU HAVE OR OUR GREAT AND POWERFUL PROPHET WILL TELL GOD YOUR CHEAP AND YOU WONT GET INTO MORMON HEAVEN !!!!
I wanna be a Mormon and be deemed worthy enough to have my own planet and to be worshiped and prayed to!!!! AS stated by momon missionaries on mormon.org to me today.Yes they told me I can become a God like Heavenly Father and rule over my own planet with my own people who will worship and pray to me.
But if you don't believe in him, eternal punishment! But don't worry bro I still love you!
Yeah sure that's some kind of love alright. You don't think I exist, even though there's no evidence for me outside of a horribly flawed book? FUCK YOU FOREVER
@bobmuffins actually even if you don't love god and you dont obey him, you will still be resurrected and receive a perfected body, you will in a world that is still better than this earthly life we live in right know.
@MagneticFORC3 Well sure, but even if god loved everyone, wouldn't he just give everyone the same super-perfect treatment? Seems strange to me that even though god says he loves everyone, and is "no respecter of persons", he'll treat others better than others.
@bobmuffins do you have kids?? or even when you do have kids, your not just gonna give them everything you have. Especially if they lie to you, disobey and show you that you can't trust them. Well it's the same with god he isn't just going to give you all he has (literally everything) unless he knows he can trust you.
@bobmuffins Yeah but yet he doesn't give you the choice not to choose the right way. Every human in the world is given the chance to hear the gospel and to accept it, he gives you the choice, also we have the millenium to hear the gospel once more and to correct our lives for the last chance, Also even if you reject his gospel you are not getting punished you will still be living a better life than the one in this earth.
@MagneticFORC3 Okay, let's put it this way- You do something, you get 3 cookies. I do something else, I get one. While still a reward, compared to you, it's a punishment, in a way.
And as for your whole "hear the gospel" thing... I know the church uses acts, not belief, so that's not really an acceptable argument. That and y'know an eternal punishment for a momentary act. Doesn't sound very loving to me.
@bobmuffins okay lets put it this way, you see someone in an accident or in need of help so you go and help them and make sure they are safe, you get three cookies. You see someone in an accident or in need of help but this time you walk away without even helping, you still get one cookie. Wait, but i didn't do anything but yet the lord still loves you.
@MagneticFORC3 Sure, but keep this in mind- A cookie is something finite. Once I eat it, it's gone.
An afterlife is PERMANENT. A cookie is NOT. This seems to be something you're missing. I used the cookie example, and now that I think about it, it was bad, just for one reason- Literally nothing is equivalent to an eternal thing that our minds can contemplate.
That, and I don't think a god is real anyways, so.. that's also debatable, but that's a different discussion.
How beautiful this gospel is and he has blessed my family, and I am thankful for Joseph Smith. My love I give to everyone and I judge not another. I know this gospel to be the true!!
This is a great video and the church is true! The Book of Mormon is also true. God will reveal the truths unto you if you ask him. AND the revelation is that the book is true and will help you come closer to God than you though possible.
We believe what we believe, and you believe what you believe. Don't tell us what we believe, because we do believe in the Bible and the Book of Mormon does not go against it. Mormons have respect for other religions because we believe many of the same things as many religions. We have our differences but that does not make us untrue. I'm a convert and I advise you to open your mind and let God tell you what is true. But you must have faith a willingness to learn.
Mormons do not go against the Bible. In fact the Bible is a big part of our religion, as is the Book of Mormon. The Book of Mormon goes along with the Bible, so many of it's teaching are so similar to the Bible. Many people say that because we can't prove Jesus Christ and Heavenly Father appeared to Joseph Smith, our religion is untrue. There's no way to prove it, but we have Faith and we have the Spirit telling us of its truthfulness. You may not agree with our religion, but have respect for it
@09msballer The Book of Mormon gives a history of Jews who were supposed to live on this continent. In the "story" they had chariots and swords and shields. That proves his testimony is a lie, and many have and are being deceived. The worst lies have semblance of truth that make them more believable and deceptive. There are no ancient things to confirm this "testimony" unlike the Bible which has plenty being found all of the time in the Middle east...
I respect what you believe, and all I ask is that you do the same for us. I give this analogy simply as a perspective. Before Columbus sailed the ocean blue, there was no historical or ancient evidence that the earth was round. People said he was ludacris to believe such fantasies. Nonetheless, it was true. In essence, if Columbus had never had the faith which inspired action, he never would have sailed....
@ufmb82 Christ spoke of a generation who need proof. He called them a sign seeking generation. Did christ not speak of faith?? I do not need any ancient proof that is of man that the bible is true. I will do as james directs and ask god who knows all things. Christ said a sign seeking generation is a wicked and adulterous generation. I hope people stop relying on archaeological evidence to prove that gods word is really his word. Then we can rely more on faith as just as christ said.
@ufmb82 I do not mean to be rude of arrogant but of all that Christ taught faith was one of the biggest things i think he wanted us to learn. I think that more people need to ask god and have faith that he will answer our prayers, instead of relying on the world to convince us that the scriptures are true by some evidence that they find. If you can find no "signs" or proof the Book of Mormon is true then i ask you to do as james directs, to ask god in faith nothing wavering.
@ufmb82 in the mormon religion they do not ask to to worship joseph smith, you just have to jhaevb the common decentsy and respect to adknowledge what he did, he LITERRALY reenewed this religion. without him then men wouldnt be able to hold the holy power of the preiesthood , their is just so much i could talk about, so inform urself before making stupid FALSE comments, he most definetly is not a fairie tale aouthor..
@bullshitproof I have seen cancer disappear through prayer. I have seen hearts (physical hearts) become new through prayer and doctors not be able to explain it. Your "priesthood" is the biggest fiction, and you are naked in your "holy underwear"! You have not lived up to your call name on YouTube my friend. You are an artist...
The problem with Mormonism is that the Book of Mormon is absolutely fictitious and there is no archeological evidence to support anything it says, You can find evidence in Israel and its surrounding region supporting the Bible/Tanakh. I pity people fooled by all of this...
@jinheneamerican That is about the most response I get from Mormons intent on staying so. I have never heard a Mormon answer this. I do not even believe educated Mormons believe anymore...
scholars often times change what they believe to be true. Why? Because they gain more knowledge than they had previously. What does that mean for us? It means that we need to find out for ourselves. Science and scholars used to believe that smoking was good for you. Now they say it's not. They gained more knowledge. The only way you will honestly be able to say whether or not the Book of Mormon (or the Bible for that matter) is true, is if you read with faith, and ask God.
so if God loves us why mormons require so many tasks and achievement to enter heaven?Why do they believe in the bible and the book of mormon which goes against the bible?
I don't understand...God loves us...but hates liars.Beautiful words,but actions speak louder.lds prophets are fake....and in the bible there is only one person that produce counterfeit the gospel.
@teriiura the book of mormom does not go against the bible mormons belive in the bible and we know that every single word in there is true. you should kneel down and pray about that and see how god anwers your prayer but remember to pray with faith
I believe the LDS Church is the only true and living church upon the face of the earth, this is Gods Church and it is the ONLY church run by God. I also believe the Book of Mormon is TRUE and that Joseph Smith was a true prophet! Thomas S. Monson is the prophet today and I am soo glad I have my Church! We base alot of our decisions on Faith and it is worth it! I'm glad I am LDS (CHRISTIAN) because It gives me hope and through my Faith, good works and the grace of God I will be saved.
princesskris1000 2 months ago 2
My comment is not enough. If you have questions go to LDS.org and learn of glad message we want to share.
collinloertscher 2 months ago
@CTR831 I do know what Mormons teach because I was one for twenty years. I have challenged your claim that Jesus is YHWH- the god of the Old Testament- but you have attempted to circumvent my argument by responding to it. Mormon leaders claim that Jesus is the god of the OT: we are agreed on that? I am arguing- based on all the OT and NT scholars I can think of- that Jesus consciously prayed to and worshipped the god of israel. He prayed to YHWH, but you say he was/is YWHW. PROBLEM!
bayreuth79 8 months ago
@CTR831 ... so, which is it?
There is a further problem. Jesus claimed to be someone who prayed to and worshipped the God of Israel (YHWH); so did he perhaps pray to himself and worship himself? Trinitarians can make sense of this because Jesus had both a human and a divine nature, so was the human nature that prayed to YHWH not the divine nature.
bayreuth79 8 months ago
@bayreuth79 The Name is the term for God. 1 GOD, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
CTR831 8 months ago
@CTR831 You are quoting Mormon teaching to me as though it possessed some kind of authority; it doesn't. If you want to be an honest debater, as I have been, you must answer the following. If Jesus is YHWH (god of OT) then why did he cry out on the cross to YHWH? You cannot respond that he was not crying out to YHWH but to God the Father because he used the word "Eloi, Eloi", which is a quote from a Psalm ADDRESSED to YHWH.
Trinitarianism can deal with this because of the two natures of Jesus.
bayreuth79 8 months ago
@CTR831 Jesus is the God of the OT? There is a rather serious problem here, I'm afraid. Joseph Smith and other Mormon Leaders have said repeatedly that prayer and worship should be directed to God the Father alone. Mormon's believe that they pray through Jesus, in a certain sense ("In the name of your Son, Jesus Christ, Amen"). But if Jesus is the God of the OT (YHWH, not Jehovah, as this is an inaccurate later reconstruction of the name) then he commanded them to pray to him & worship him...
bayreuth79 8 months ago
@bayreuth79 ... There is no problem when you yourself know He gives all glory to the Father & When He speaks it is the same words of Heavenly Father.
CTR831 8 months ago
@CTR831 This makes no sense as a response. Yet again you are simply projecting Mormon beliefs onto the bible; and it just won't do I'm afraid. You are verse picking! I could do the same if I chose. For instance, Paul in 1 Corinthians chapter 7 advises some people to remain permanently unmarried, as he was himself. Bruce McConkie has tried to circumvent this by saying his marriage comments were addressed to missionaries; but no where in the letter does Paul mention missionaries (there is not even
bayreuth79 8 months ago
CTR ...a hint of missionaries); and because he was clearly referring to a permanent option to remain unmarried. So it looks like Paul was teaching the opposite of "Eternal Marriage", that fiction invented by J Smith.
Jesus also mentions celibacy in the context of a discussion about marriage. "There are some who make themselves Eunuchs for the Kingdom of God's sake. Let them receive it who can receive it". Again "Eunuch" clearly refers to a permanent condition; and missionaries are not hinted at.
bayreuth79 8 months ago
@bayreuth79 ... I don't think you actually know LDS doctrine as much as you like to believe. Jesus Is the The God of the Old Testament. The Father hath given judgment to The Son to Judge the World. Isaiah 9:6
CTR831 8 months ago
Comment removed
CTR831 8 months ago
@CTR831 It is far more complex than you seem to think. You forget that the Jews of Jesus' day and before were radical monotheists; they passionately believed in One God. The New Testament language about "Father, Son and Holy Spirit" has to be read within this context. You cannot even begin to understand Jesus without placing him within his social and religious context. He was a first-century Jew! It evident that "Father, Son & HS" in the NT is the form of Christian monotheism, not pluralism.
bayreuth79 8 months ago
Comment removed
CTR831 8 months ago
@bayreuth79 ... John 5:17 ¶ But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.
18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
CTR831 8 months ago
@bayreuth79 ... 20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.
21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.
22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
CTR831 8 months ago
@CTR831 I've heard all this before. You are referring to the so-called subordinationist language that is sometimes predicated of Jesus in the Gospels. St Augustine in 'De Trinitate' has already dealt with this in the fifth-century. I refer you to that book for a fully developed response; but I'll briefly answer you. If you look at what Chalcedon actually says you will notice that it teaches Jesus has two natures in one person. Therefore, the easy answer is that its Jesus' human nature that prays
bayreuth79 8 months ago
@bayreuth79 ... Well u believe that He was Praying 2 himself. & u just state that I am wrong. So you believe the Prophet St Augustine? Is that what he is? you know I know you don't think he is but you believe his words; you could say LDS is wrong Because it is the words of a man... the test is Will you pray otherwise u r relying on the words of a man and not on God. And as I said you do know much. I am glad to hear of your great heritage and that you do study. Remember Prayer also...
CTR831 8 months ago
@CTR831 Do you think that Mormons are the only people who pray?! That is extraordinary arrogance; but this is something I've come to expect from Mormons. Of course I pray; and for your information I prayed to know whether Mormonism is true for many years; but I never received a reply! There is a reason for this: "Mormonism" is a demonstrably false religion. It is both idolatrous and blasphemous, not to mention fundamentalist in many respects. If you think God is an exalted man: this is idolatry.
bayreuth79 8 months ago
@bayreuth79 What ever you believe wish you all the best.
CTR831 8 months ago
@CTR831 I cannot reciprocate as I genuinely believe that you are in a false religion- one that was invented by Joseph Smith. And, yes, I know he was persecuted! But so were other false prophets like David Koresh; in fact, David Koresh had a similar fate to J Smith! Just because someone is persecuted doesn't necessarily mean they are sincere; and it definitely doesn't mean that one they believe is true. Muhammad & his followers were persecuted for many years in Arabia...
bayreuth79 8 months ago
@bayreuth79 ... Duck and weave as much as you like. the word of a man as opposed to doing what the bible directs and that is to ask of God. so the religion you follow is of non reciprocation. what a loss.
CTR831 8 months ago
@CTR831 I am not sure what this means: "Duck and weave as much as you like"? This comment seems to assume that I am a sophist not interested in the truth. If this is what you think, I'm afraid you are mistaken.
You believe that Joseph Smith was a prophet. Correct? The question, though, is: how can you be sure he was a prophet? If he wasn't a prophet- but a false prophet- then it is you who is following "the word of man". I ask you: where does the bible teach "eternal marriage"? No where...
bayreuth79 8 months ago
@bayreuth79 ... Eternal Marriage
Matthew 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Genesis 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
Mark 10:9 What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder'
CTR831 8 months ago
@bayreuth79 ... 1 Cor. 11:11 neither is the man without the woman ... in the Lord.
The time to marry is while in mortality, as it is the purpose for which we are here. there will be provision made for those who would have but through no fault of their own, have not.
CTR831 8 months ago
@bayreuth79 ... What I meant was; I know this things of myself because of the Scripture- promise in James 1:5. I ask Will you pray and ask God in the sincerity of heart if what you believe is true. You have studied a great deal, will you pray and ask Heavenly Father If it is True For that is what we are to do.
CTR831 8 months ago
@CTR831 Where does the bible teach that God the Father is an exalted man? No where. Where does the bible teach that there is such a thing as "intelligences"? No where... The list could be expanded 'ad infinitum'... Besides, why are you trying to prove "Mormonism" from the Bible? Are you not aware that Joseph Smith believed this to be true only in so far as it has been translated correctly? In other words, he believed that it had been corrupted over the course of time.
bayreuth79 8 months ago
@bayreuth79 ,,, It says in the New Testament that Jesus would be called a Nazarene. Matthew 2:23 And he came and welt in a city called Nazareth: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophets, He shall be called a Nazarene. can you find that in the old testament? No - because it is a lost scripture.
CTR831 8 months ago
@bayreuth79 ... Just after stating that Christ would be received until the times of restitution of all things it states in Acts 3:22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.
CTR831 8 months ago
@bayreuth79 ... Matthew 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
29 And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit ceverlasting life.
CTR831 8 months ago
@bayreuth79 ... That is why God called Prophets in these the latter days before the Great Day when He returns.
CTR831 8 months ago
@CTR831 What you are doing is what all fundamentalists do: you isolate biblical verses from their literary and historical context and then project your own denominations interpretation onto that particular verse. This is the essence of fundamentalism; and it is naive in the extreme.
There are no Old or New Testament scholars who agree with you in anything you say, I'm afraid. You are projecting the naive interpretations of J Smith onto the Bible. I feel sorry for you.
bayreuth79 8 months ago
@bayreuth79 the ... with reference to this comment you have made here, it is an example of teach your children to love and serve one another. Am I my brothers keeper. Yes we are.
CTR831 8 months ago
Comment removed
CTR831 8 months ago
@bayreuth79 ... Again I say are you too interested in what you have learnt to humbly ask God what is true? Is my interpretation of the scriptures wrong? Well then I ask you to do as I have done and Ask God the Eternal Father If I am wrong. Lean not to thine own understanding but in all things Acknowledge Him. You really can’t know until You ask him instead of relying on the words of Men. Let him ask of God.
CTR831 8 months ago
@CTR831 Yes, of course. Your interpretation of scripture is wrong. When interpreting scripture you need to situate the verse in question within its literary, socio-political and religious context. You cannot isolate passages from their context. Jesus was a monotheistic Jew.
I was raised in 'Mormonism'; in fact, my dad was Stake President while I was growing up. I've personally met Pres Hinckley, Pres Monson and Pres Faust... I decided to leave this religion when I was twenty because its false!
bayreuth79 8 months ago
...historically contingent.
With reference to Genesis: you are referring to "Bereshit bara elohim." (In the beginning God [or the gods].); but the problem here is that "elohim" is used both for "god" and "gods", so the word can be both singular and plural. Whatever the correct interpretation, it coheres with trinitarianism, which includes the notion of plurality within the being of God. What it DOES NOT cohere with is Joseph Smith's teaching that Elohim is the PERSONAL name of God the Father!!!
bayreuth79 8 months ago
@bayreuth79 so we have the translation that is both God and gods and the 'us' to clarify which translation it is. Jesus Created this earth under the direction of Heavenly Father, and gave all to atone for it making Him Saviour and redeemer Glorifying the Father by the greatest act of Love there is. totally unselfish. Heavenly Father is all loving and can not die so who was left to atone for us-knowing that there was a fall and need for a resurrection. there was only one the saviour without fault
CTR831 8 months ago
@CTR831 The question is: from where do you derive your interpretation of Genesis? And the answer is not from a close reading of the text but from Joseph Smith. Yet again you are simply projecting Smith's teaching onto the Genesis text. "Bereshit bara elohim", "In the Beginning was God [or the gods]". This could equally well cohere with trinitarianism; in fact, that is precisely how it was interpreted by the Church Fathers.
I notice that you have not tried to answer my point about "Eloihim"...
bayreuth79 8 months ago
@bayreuth79 ... I did answer it. refer to - So we have the translation that is both God and gods and the Us Us US US US US US US. I am beginning to think you are a pro at this. you Know but you love what you think for what ever reason.
CTR831 8 months ago
@CTR831 ... Jo Smith had taught that "Eloihim" is the personal name of God the Father; but of course the word just means "god" or "gods". This is a problem for your "interpretation" of Genesis. If "Eloihim" means "the gods" (as you claim) then it cannot also be the personal name of God the Father, which is what Jo Smith claimed. So which is it??!!
The word "Eloihim" is also used when referring to the false, idolatrous "gods" of the pagans as well; clearly Jo Smith was mistaken about this word!
bayreuth79 8 months ago
@CTR831 ... to demand payment from someone else or to simply let the person off without repayment at all?! Clearly, the latter would be more forgiving. Indeed, this seems to be the meaning of the Prodigal Son parable. The father in this parable does not demand restitution from the son (or from someone on his behalf); he simply rushes out with open arms to the son who has come back to him. No sacrificial victim required.
Your problem is to fail to recognize that your interpretation of 3:16 is...
bayreuth79 8 months ago
@bayreuth79 ... Heavenly Father is omnipotent; is there any loss in giving strength to those who serve Him or is that gain? Satan wanted all the power himself to be as God but His idea was to be higher than God, not one with God. Children have the potential to become like their parents. The Prodigal Son returned (Repented) and the father received Him.
CTR831 8 months ago
@CTR831 Hmmm. You seem to be confused. Omnipotence means to possess all-power; you cannot predicate omnipotence of a 'god' if there are other 'gods' who share power amongst themselves. That is by definition not omnipotence.
Yes, exactly: the Prodigal son returned and was received by the father. The problem from a 'Mormon' point of view is that this parable seems to go against a literalistic interpretation of the atonement. Why could God not forgive us directly, without a sacrificial victim?
bayreuth79 8 months ago
@bayreuth79 ... I've answered your question in detail though you seem to have a problem for every solution, and to the first part of this multi circular question? James 1:5 Do you honestly think That preparing your obedient child to co inherit something you have is any loss.? It is only an increase in both purpose and Joy. Is that not the will of any parent to see that their child grows to the full stature of what the parent is. Christ showed how we should be Totally loving. See John 15:13
CTR831 8 months ago
@bayreuth79 ... The payment was not demanded, it was required to overcome Sin and death. In giving His Life He gained it. He who shall save his life shall lose it. I think you are looking at Heavenly Father as taking But No it Is Jesus Giving for us; Winning the war against Satan, the adversary. When Something needs to be done do we pray to god and expect Him to do it all for us? Are we to be unprofitable. Do we all not Die and hope for a resurrection?
CTR831 8 months ago
@CTR831 Hmmm. You are simply reading 'Mormon' doctrine back into the texts of the Old and New Testaments. Please read this book in context
The question then is why was payment required to overcome sin? In what sense does Jesus dying horribly on a cross pay our debts to God? More importantly, why is it that God requires a victim to repay our debts? This makes sense metaphorically, not literally. If God needs to be repaid, then he is not forgiving; if he needs an innocent victim, he is not just.
bayreuth79 8 months ago
@CTR831 With reference to John 3:16 you are again reading later "Mormon" teaching regarding the atonement. You are presupposing that Father, Son and Holy Spirit refer to more than one "god". However, the whole bible- including the New Testament- presupposes Jewish monotheism. This is why the baptismal formula reads "In the NAME of the Father, Son & Holy Spirit" and not "In the NAMES of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit". If "Mormon" were true it would make grammatical sense to say "names" (plural)
bayreuth79 8 months ago
Comment removed
CTR831 8 months ago
@bayreuth79 ... Do you know what a mediator is? Someone who pays your debt and sets the terms for which payment is to be made. You know a lot. But you still have not answered - do you think Jesus would pray to himself. Jesus gave himself for all of us, you and me, a price we could not pay ourselves. Are you too interested in backing up what you believe without asking God if it is true.
CTR831 8 months ago
@CTR831 ... makes their corruption all the more insidious. Jesus reasons (in 10:34) that if sinful authorities are given a divine title because of their duties, how much more is he entitled to it who is guiltless & who speaks the words of God.
This is the proper contextual analysis of 10:34; and it does not cohere with 'Mormon' teaching. The shepherds of Israel referred to were corrupt, not morally perfect 'gods' in the 'Mormon' sense; and, besides, it was clearly a metaphor.
bayreuth79 8 months ago
@bayreuth79 ... It is not LDS Doctrine to say that Jesus was saying morally Perfect but rather The children of God, To follow in their Fathers footsteps. as you will note from your reading, Jesus referred to some as Children of Satan because they would rather follow Sin rather than Righteousness.
CTR831 8 months ago
@CTR831 This is a naive response, I'm afraid. John 10:34 does not mean what you think they mean. You are reading later "Mormon" teaching back it scripture. 10:34 is a quotation from Psalm 82:6. The Psalm is a prayer to Yahweh to punish the corrupt shepherds of Israel. These leaders, who are charged with teaching & enforcing the divine law, are called "gods" by the Psalmist because of the divine authority they wield over the people, so it is metaphorical language. The abuse of this power makes...
bayreuth79 8 months ago
@bayreuth79 ... Jesus says 'I and the Father are one' Which means one in purpose they are separate people. Read John chapter 17 particularly 21. Heavenly Father is no more one in substance than all those he is praying for. You are not your parents. God is God because he is just, merciful, righteous, omnipotent, omniscient, and all loving. If he was not he would not be God, yet He always is Perfect in all things.
CTR831 8 months ago
@CTR831 The problem, of course, is that the "Mormon" god cannot be omnipotent. Omni= all; potent = power. All-Power. But, of course, Mormomism, believes that there are many "gods", so god the father (in Mormonism) cannot possess ALL-Power, but only a share of power.
The classical definition of God in Christianity is this: "that than which nothing greater can be conceived"; but of course I can think of a greater god than the Mormon god...
bayreuth79 8 months ago
@bayreuth79 ... This scripture explains the Love of both Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ where both Abraham and Isaac yield to the will of God. it is in similitude Of the sacrifice both Heavenly Father gave and Christ also. Genesis 22, the entire chapter. To understand the own heart felt personal sacrifice Jesus gave it to both understand the own heart felt personal sacrifice Heavenly Father gave.
CTR831 8 months ago
@bayreuth79 ... Heavenly Father loved us so much that He sent His Righteous Son to show us how to live and to give even when the blame is not our own. too many times contention persists because one person seeks revenge from others because they believe it was not fair what the other person did to them. though Jesus showed us True Love.
CTR831 8 months ago
@bayreuth79 ... Jesus showed By his example of obedience to Gods Laws, Jesus had no fault yet he was willing to pay the price for our sins. This is the Love of God. that no greater friend hath man than this That a man be willing to lay down his life for his friends.
CTR831 8 months ago
@bayreuth79 ...there is much more to cover this point. though at this time to address your comment about Heavenly Father sending Jesus. Heavenly Father is Immortal and cannot die. Jesus willingly gave his life and was resurrected thus making it possible for all those who believe and honestly strive to do there best and endure to inherit eternal life (exaltation).
CTR831 8 months ago
@bayreuth79 ... Genesis 1:26 God said let us make... And Genesis 3:22
Jesus prayed in the garden of Gethsemane as recorded in John 17 :3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. Jesus was not Praying to himself.
CTR831 8 months ago
I feel the love of God so overwhelmingly and for some reason I am so sorry for my sins, for some reason I don't feel clean and I wish to do everything it takes to be clean and worthy.
DanielB0531 9 months ago
i'm not even a mormon... and i'm a mormon.
confettiembolism666 10 months ago
if you really spend your entire life being overly religious, think of how much things you could do. you live one life. do anything you want stop wasting your time with useless stuff such a god and church. just think have your prayers been answered? if there is a god why have so many loved one's been lost due to other stranger's decisions? why would he let this happen? oh yeahh he isnt real!
daba554 10 months ago
he doesnt care because he doesnt exist. who is he to decide if we are perfect or not, hes not god........oh yeah
millik1n 10 months ago
I love President uchtdorf! He always gives amazing talks. :)
daughterofGodforever 10 months ago 2
also did you check out the video i gave you??
MagneticFORC3 1 year ago
Comment removed
MagneticFORC3 1 year ago
@bobmuffins also check out this message, thank you
MagneticFORC3 1 year ago
@MagneticFORC3 Moral Agency (LDS Prophets Mormon Message) Natural Law
MagneticFORC3 1 year ago
Comment removed
MagneticFORC3 1 year ago
big message from the lds to their people....god loves us...we dont need to live in big houses...tents will do...NOW BROTHER AND SISTER MOMONS GIVE US YOUR %10 OF EVERYTHING YOU HAVE OR OUR GREAT AND POWERFUL PROPHET WILL TELL GOD YOUR CHEAP AND YOU WONT GET INTO MORMON HEAVEN !!!!
MrMormonslayer 1 year ago
I wanna be a Mormon and be deemed worthy enough to have my own planet and to be worshiped and prayed to!!!! AS stated by momon missionaries on mormon.org to me today.Yes they told me I can become a God like Heavenly Father and rule over my own planet with my own people who will worship and pray to me.
IRISHBUDDAFILTH 1 year ago
@IRISHBUDDAFILTH
haha nice try buddy. remember where liars go! There is no way a Mormon missionary said that to you.
Tanner016 1 year ago
@Tanner016 oh really?! would you like me to send you the chat?
IRISHBUDDAFILTH 1 year ago
@IRISHBUDDAFILTH
go ahead and make up a chat then send it to me :-)
Tanner016 1 year ago
@Tanner016 kiss me arse..I dont need to make up anything or prove anything to you or anyone else.The keep in contact with me.so keep on trolling!!!
IRISHBUDDAFILTH 1 year ago
Sure. God loves everyone.
But if you don't believe in him, eternal punishment! But don't worry bro I still love you!
Yeah sure that's some kind of love alright. You don't think I exist, even though there's no evidence for me outside of a horribly flawed book? FUCK YOU FOREVER
bobmuffins 1 year ago
@bobmuffins actually even if you don't love god and you dont obey him, you will still be resurrected and receive a perfected body, you will in a world that is still better than this earthly life we live in right know.
MagneticFORC3 1 year ago
@MagneticFORC3 Well sure, but even if god loved everyone, wouldn't he just give everyone the same super-perfect treatment? Seems strange to me that even though god says he loves everyone, and is "no respecter of persons", he'll treat others better than others.
bobmuffins 1 year ago
@bobmuffins do you have kids?? or even when you do have kids, your not just gonna give them everything you have. Especially if they lie to you, disobey and show you that you can't trust them. Well it's the same with god he isn't just going to give you all he has (literally everything) unless he knows he can trust you.
MagneticFORC3 1 year ago
@MagneticFORC3 No, of course I wouldn't reward that. I wouldn't punish them FOR ETERNITY.
An INFINITE punishment for a FINITE act. Something is wrong about that, don't you agree?
bobmuffins 1 year ago
@bobmuffins Yeah but yet he doesn't give you the choice not to choose the right way. Every human in the world is given the chance to hear the gospel and to accept it, he gives you the choice, also we have the millenium to hear the gospel once more and to correct our lives for the last chance, Also even if you reject his gospel you are not getting punished you will still be living a better life than the one in this earth.
MagneticFORC3 1 year ago
@MagneticFORC3 Okay, let's put it this way- You do something, you get 3 cookies. I do something else, I get one. While still a reward, compared to you, it's a punishment, in a way.
And as for your whole "hear the gospel" thing... I know the church uses acts, not belief, so that's not really an acceptable argument. That and y'know an eternal punishment for a momentary act. Doesn't sound very loving to me.
bobmuffins 1 year ago
@bobmuffins okay lets put it this way, you see someone in an accident or in need of help so you go and help them and make sure they are safe, you get three cookies. You see someone in an accident or in need of help but this time you walk away without even helping, you still get one cookie. Wait, but i didn't do anything but yet the lord still loves you.
MagneticFORC3 1 year ago
@MagneticFORC3 Sure, but keep this in mind- A cookie is something finite. Once I eat it, it's gone.
An afterlife is PERMANENT. A cookie is NOT. This seems to be something you're missing. I used the cookie example, and now that I think about it, it was bad, just for one reason- Literally nothing is equivalent to an eternal thing that our minds can contemplate.
That, and I don't think a god is real anyways, so.. that's also debatable, but that's a different discussion.
bobmuffins 1 year ago
is there a name for these talks that have the music in the background, its the most peaceful thing to listen to..any help?
BigApollo52 1 year ago
good to know....
ProjectMayhem11 1 year ago
How beautiful this gospel is and he has blessed my family, and I am thankful for Joseph Smith. My love I give to everyone and I judge not another. I know this gospel to be the true!!
metalheroify 1 year ago 2
What a great message. I love Heavenly Father. I feel so blessed to always have his love regardless of my imperfectness. Thank you so much Father.
pilottim79 1 year ago
This is a great video and the church is true! The Book of Mormon is also true. God will reveal the truths unto you if you ask him. AND the revelation is that the book is true and will help you come closer to God than you though possible.
RubesBYU 1 year ago
We believe what we believe, and you believe what you believe. Don't tell us what we believe, because we do believe in the Bible and the Book of Mormon does not go against it. Mormons have respect for other religions because we believe many of the same things as many religions. We have our differences but that does not make us untrue. I'm a convert and I advise you to open your mind and let God tell you what is true. But you must have faith a willingness to learn.
09msballer 1 year ago
Mormons do not go against the Bible. In fact the Bible is a big part of our religion, as is the Book of Mormon. The Book of Mormon goes along with the Bible, so many of it's teaching are so similar to the Bible. Many people say that because we can't prove Jesus Christ and Heavenly Father appeared to Joseph Smith, our religion is untrue. There's no way to prove it, but we have Faith and we have the Spirit telling us of its truthfulness. You may not agree with our religion, but have respect for it
09msballer 1 year ago
@09msballer The Book of Mormon gives a history of Jews who were supposed to live on this continent. In the "story" they had chariots and swords and shields. That proves his testimony is a lie, and many have and are being deceived. The worst lies have semblance of truth that make them more believable and deceptive. There are no ancient things to confirm this "testimony" unlike the Bible which has plenty being found all of the time in the Middle east...
ufmb82 1 year ago
@ufmb82 Have you visited the ruins of South America by chance?
(1 Corinthians 2:14-16)
I respect what you believe, and all I ask is that you do the same for us. I give this analogy simply as a perspective. Before Columbus sailed the ocean blue, there was no historical or ancient evidence that the earth was round. People said he was ludacris to believe such fantasies. Nonetheless, it was true. In essence, if Columbus had never had the faith which inspired action, he never would have sailed....
kcmorgan88 1 year ago
@ufmb82 Christ spoke of a generation who need proof. He called them a sign seeking generation. Did christ not speak of faith?? I do not need any ancient proof that is of man that the bible is true. I will do as james directs and ask god who knows all things. Christ said a sign seeking generation is a wicked and adulterous generation. I hope people stop relying on archaeological evidence to prove that gods word is really his word. Then we can rely more on faith as just as christ said.
ComeUntoChrist 1 year ago
@ufmb82 I do not mean to be rude of arrogant but of all that Christ taught faith was one of the biggest things i think he wanted us to learn. I think that more people need to ask god and have faith that he will answer our prayers, instead of relying on the world to convince us that the scriptures are true by some evidence that they find. If you can find no "signs" or proof the Book of Mormon is true then i ask you to do as james directs, to ask god in faith nothing wavering.
ComeUntoChrist 1 year ago
@ComeUntoChrist I have faith in Jesus Christ. I have none in Jospeh Smith, for he is a fairie tale author...
I have His Holy Spirit and His Word. I do not need another Gospel.
ufmb82 1 year ago
@ufmb82 in the mormon religion they do not ask to to worship joseph smith, you just have to jhaevb the common decentsy and respect to adknowledge what he did, he LITERRALY reenewed this religion. without him then men wouldnt be able to hold the holy power of the preiesthood , their is just so much i could talk about, so inform urself before making stupid FALSE comments, he most definetly is not a fairie tale aouthor..
bullshitproof 1 year ago
Comment removed
ufmb82 1 year ago
@bullshitproof I have seen cancer disappear through prayer. I have seen hearts (physical hearts) become new through prayer and doctors not be able to explain it. Your "priesthood" is the biggest fiction, and you are naked in your "holy underwear"! You have not lived up to your call name on YouTube my friend. You are an artist...
ufmb82 1 year ago
The problem with Mormonism is that the Book of Mormon is absolutely fictitious and there is no archeological evidence to support anything it says, You can find evidence in Israel and its surrounding region supporting the Bible/Tanakh. I pity people fooled by all of this...
ufmb82 1 year ago
@ufmb82 Oh Please...
jinheneamerican 1 year ago
@jinheneamerican That is about the most response I get from Mormons intent on staying so. I have never heard a Mormon answer this. I do not even believe educated Mormons believe anymore...
ufmb82 1 year ago
@ufmb82
scholars often times change what they believe to be true. Why? Because they gain more knowledge than they had previously. What does that mean for us? It means that we need to find out for ourselves. Science and scholars used to believe that smoking was good for you. Now they say it's not. They gained more knowledge. The only way you will honestly be able to say whether or not the Book of Mormon (or the Bible for that matter) is true, is if you read with faith, and ask God.
kcmorgan88 1 year ago
so if God loves us why mormons require so many tasks and achievement to enter heaven?Why do they believe in the bible and the book of mormon which goes against the bible?
I don't understand...God loves us...but hates liars.Beautiful words,but actions speak louder.lds prophets are fake....and in the bible there is only one person that produce counterfeit the gospel.
teriiura 1 year ago
@teriiura the book of mormom does not go against the bible mormons belive in the bible and we know that every single word in there is true. you should kneel down and pray about that and see how god anwers your prayer but remember to pray with faith
TheAngelgirl12 1 year ago
@TheAngelgirl12 so why mormons believe that Jesus is the brother of satan?and the bible says that Jesus is God
teriiura 1 year ago
Very well done! You've got some "mad" movie makin' skills. The message was pure. Thanks for being on here! Josh
THELDSLIFE 2 years ago
Great talk!!!
12Brando8 2 years ago