I meant to say, "but when was true peace ever achieved without civilian casualties". Sorry about that. Peace follows victory, not trying to "hold the peace together" while a bunch of people (Iraqis) are deciding whether or not to get along with each other after centuries of hate. To me, this seems crazy. Thank you for your posts disneyr!
Cont. Iran is putting resources into getting U.S. forces out of Iraq because Iran can create a puppet state there and again render a large percieved defeat to the U.S. If we leave too early we duplicate the conditions that existed in Iraq when the British left in 1926 and ultimately resulted in Saddam's Baathists assuming power. U.S. decision makers have made a grave mistake by not fighting this war "World War 2 style" from the beginning.
Thanks for your time...I believe that fighting it "World War 2 style" was the way if would be fought based on the apparent quagmire of Vietnam. I thought that way of waging a war would be avoided at virtually all costs. I am in total agreement about the perceived victory, because that's all it would be. It seems like the world along w/much of America is falling for this.
Seems like peace occurs only when you TOTALLY destroy the enemy. Unfortunately, there will be civilian casualties, but when was true whenever peace was achieved in history without that sad truth? (minus the cold war)
I know this is different because the enemy is not limited to one country, but it doesn't seem like the U.S. decision makers will follow through with the resolve they had after 9/11 against terrorists.
cont... Excuse my ignorance, but if it depended on the Iraq people to get along with each other, then we shouldn't have gone to war, because that's not an accurate way to measure success. How long does it take for Iraqi men to be trained to defend their country? At what point is it up to THEM? Just curious...Educate me please...
Cont. Our winning does not depend on the Iraqis "getting along" with each other. The central front in the war against the Jihadists is now Iraq. The Jihadists are putting most of their resources into getting U.S. forces out of Iraq which will create a large percieved defeat for American forces and allow the Jihadists to have a much better base than Afghanistan to wage their global Jihad (oil reserves and seaports).
I am speaking from the heart...no political agenda here with this question...When it comes to winning or losing the war, why does our "success" or "failure" in Iraq depend on whether or not the peoples of that country get along? To me, that seems like an objective that is out of our control. We cannot make anyone get along. We can only control what we do. I'm just trying to get SOLID feedback without some political pundant trying to push junk...just the truth.
There is a miltary term called the "Center of Gravity" which means that if you defeat the Center of Gravity you eliminate or severely damage an enemy's ability to fight. The Center of Gravity for the Jihadists has been Iran since 1979. Iran has been and still is the worlds largest state sponsor of terrorism. From a military perspective, I thought we should have gone to war with Iran after 9/11. Obviously the polititians didn't think there was enough political will to do so.
Your still evading the iraq and ww2 relation. You focused a play on MY words, maybe in an outward attempt to diminish others and distract them from the freedom of thought which you lack.
When you ask me to define who our enemies are and you put the word enemies in quotation marks it indicates that you don't know who they are and are asking me to tell you.
After a quote from you like, "someone that denounces heat dances with fire", and you say all I have is a play on words? Please.
I also have encountered the source of this post as well as many others playing the same hidden game. They tend to use words and slogans relating to the world we face, but those are not the message extended. The real communication is encoded in its manner. That is an attempted contest to determine who was somehow better than another. Your reply is a typical example to escape the real meaning.
Please, the counter arguement to that statement is self-evident, which it appears escapes the minds of those who forgo the use of reason and intellect. Define who our "enemies" are today, then apply that to our current involvement in iraq and relate that to the situation to ww2. That statement holds the same credibility as the saying or thought that a fish cannot drown, which at first sounds factual and beleivable to the unknowing, but uppon further examination the reverse is truth.
No counter argument is self evident. Our enemies are those who wish to kill us (meaning Americans), destroy our country (meaning the U.S.A.) and our way of life. I think the military and ideological center of gravity for the jihadists has always actually been Iran. Since the Bush administration chose to fight in Iraq instead it has had the benefit making the Jihadists choose Iraq as their battlefield instead of the United States itself.
American Flags? Pro U.S Chants? Must be a conservative rally. I mean, if there where Palastinian Flags and "Jews are our Dogs" chants then it would have been another protest from America's mis-guided morons the liberal minority.
Dude... this is excellent! You should check out the video that I just uploaded to my youtube account. I want to debate these people. I want to know how they can be so blindly ignorant.
No they would most likely have backpacks full of explosives like they did in London. Maybe they would use a truck bomb like in Bali. Maybe they would use bombs like in Madrid, Spain or in Bombay, India. The tone of your comment seems to indicate you think the possibility of terrorist acts occuring in the U.S. are preposterous and that is just not the case.
Murtha is wrong on many counts. I served 10 years active duty in South and Central America, Germany, the Balkans and other missions. I am still in the Reserves and I will definitely be doing a tour if and when Iran pushes the nuclear envelope. Someone does not have to serve to understand that we must fight to maintain our way of life.
If you feel we should be over there(Iraq or Afghanistan)get to the nearest recruiting agency,,,numbers are so low Murtha is saying the draft will be needed to sustain this war.
That woman had no logical explanation for her reasonings. Thats what happens when you ask a liberal to back their opinion on the war against terrorism and Islamic faciscm. It's true though, we are fighting them there instead of on American soil.
"All the terrorists are streaming to Iraq - we can kill them there" ------- Maybe we should kill them at birth and definitely before they are 6 months old. There must be someway we can recognise them at that age.
that argument makes zero sense, and has nothing to do with what was said. typical liberal.
"What ever happened to Mushroom clouds..." Well, when we take the initiative and take the fight to the enemy it is more dificult for the enemy to take the fight to us.
It was actually way before that. Eisenhower appeased the Saudis when they nationalized the oil rigs and refineries built by the Brits and USA. Eisenhower appeased the Egyptians when they nationalized the Suez Canal.
Britain and America overthrew that democratically elected PM and the CIA created SAVAC. Torture, murder and some of the worst human abuses in history followed. We created it!
Also, it's funny how your starting point of hostilities in Iran was the hostage situation and bodies on the tarmac. The starting point was when the popular and democratically elected Prime minister of Iran decided to nationalise his own countries oil supplies - Washington and Britain didn't like that.
What ever happened to Mushroom clouds over American cities? I thought this was the reason for the pre-emptive strike. Now it seems the reason is to create a 'bring 'em on' scenario where "international terrorists" can be killed. Sorry, but the guy by the microphone is talking absolute tosh! The woman had her head screwed on.
"All the terrorists are streaming to Iraq - we can kill them there" ------- Maybe we should kill them at birth and definitely before they are 6 months old. There must be someway we can recognise them at that age. (end sarcasm)
If it weren't for the "corporate whores" as you put it, producing the products, there would be no money for the government to forcibly take. Nobody is putting a gun to anyone's head to buy gasoline. Are you suggesting Nixonian and Carteresque price controls like the 70's? Once again we would have gas lines.
...environmental laws. Not to mention the huge amount of $ it takes. At the fastest a refinery could be built between 5-10 years. So what do the corporate whores do? Well they are sitting in the world's 3rd largest oil supply but can't put it to good use yet...hmm...well lets just jack up the prices and fuck the consumers over. Get it now disneyr?
No need to be patronizing, use vulgarity or to presume to be on the moral high ground ("Get it now disneyr?") The producers of gasoline make about 9 cents per gallon profit. Who you should really be angry with is the local, state and federal governments who take an average of 55 cents per gallon "profit". I live in Nevada where we are second only to Hawaii in the state portion of the gasoline tax. Nevada takes 33 cents per gallon.
the belief system is based on history. the whole conspiracy theory that America was not really attacked by jihadists with jet airplanes is rediculous. Reality is real.
If this war was about oil, why didn't we just take the oil during the first Gulf War or why haven't we just taken it all now? If we had taken control of the oil in this war we would not have gas prices well over $3 a gallon like it is now.
The reason the U.S. didn't take the oil is because we did not get an excellent opportunity to do so. We only institued forces in Kuwait. Now we can finish the job. The reason for the high gas prices is that the U.S. is too fucking hesitant to build more refineries becuase they do not want to deal with...
Bush is a 33 degree freemason(Skull and Bones).We are revenue,and slaves that shou serve.We are sheeple to them.They have not investigated 9-11 and the people must demand this.I have seen computer analysis of 9-11 and it's results are truly stunning.Iran=ww3 and we must get rid of the Republicrats.High degree masons need to come forward.
These guys are debateting with belief systems installed by media.This is war for black oil,smokescreened by lies and deception.Remember the human race cannot be ruled if they know the truth.
Its funny how ignorant people like you still believe we went to Iraq for the oil...hhmm even though their is NO PROOF ANYWHERE that we've taken even one drop of it. Obviously your a democrat.
First Iam neither as they are republicrats,,,,Freemason's ran the show before,,,,now it's skull & bones (Presscott,H.Bush & G.W)
There allegance is to them.Resources of Iraq needed to be aquired as U.S. resources could not sustain growth,,listen to Carter and Layton make sense.I'm a Canadian watching my government follow yours and are crediblity is shot,,Peace Helghast
I meant to say, "but when was true peace ever achieved without civilian casualties". Sorry about that. Peace follows victory, not trying to "hold the peace together" while a bunch of people (Iraqis) are deciding whether or not to get along with each other after centuries of hate. To me, this seems crazy. Thank you for your posts disneyr!
randyjsing 4 years ago
I agree with you. Thanks for your comments randy.
disneyr 4 years ago
Cont. Iran is putting resources into getting U.S. forces out of Iraq because Iran can create a puppet state there and again render a large percieved defeat to the U.S. If we leave too early we duplicate the conditions that existed in Iraq when the British left in 1926 and ultimately resulted in Saddam's Baathists assuming power. U.S. decision makers have made a grave mistake by not fighting this war "World War 2 style" from the beginning.
disneyr 4 years ago
Thanks for your time...I believe that fighting it "World War 2 style" was the way if would be fought based on the apparent quagmire of Vietnam. I thought that way of waging a war would be avoided at virtually all costs. I am in total agreement about the perceived victory, because that's all it would be. It seems like the world along w/much of America is falling for this.
randyjsing 4 years ago
Seems like peace occurs only when you TOTALLY destroy the enemy. Unfortunately, there will be civilian casualties, but when was true whenever peace was achieved in history without that sad truth? (minus the cold war)
I know this is different because the enemy is not limited to one country, but it doesn't seem like the U.S. decision makers will follow through with the resolve they had after 9/11 against terrorists.
randyjsing 4 years ago
cont... Excuse my ignorance, but if it depended on the Iraq people to get along with each other, then we shouldn't have gone to war, because that's not an accurate way to measure success. How long does it take for Iraqi men to be trained to defend their country? At what point is it up to THEM? Just curious...Educate me please...
randyjsing 4 years ago
Cont. Our winning does not depend on the Iraqis "getting along" with each other. The central front in the war against the Jihadists is now Iraq. The Jihadists are putting most of their resources into getting U.S. forces out of Iraq which will create a large percieved defeat for American forces and allow the Jihadists to have a much better base than Afghanistan to wage their global Jihad (oil reserves and seaports).
disneyr 4 years ago
I am speaking from the heart...no political agenda here with this question...When it comes to winning or losing the war, why does our "success" or "failure" in Iraq depend on whether or not the peoples of that country get along? To me, that seems like an objective that is out of our control. We cannot make anyone get along. We can only control what we do. I'm just trying to get SOLID feedback without some political pundant trying to push junk...just the truth.
randyjsing 4 years ago
There is a miltary term called the "Center of Gravity" which means that if you defeat the Center of Gravity you eliminate or severely damage an enemy's ability to fight. The Center of Gravity for the Jihadists has been Iran since 1979. Iran has been and still is the worlds largest state sponsor of terrorism. From a military perspective, I thought we should have gone to war with Iran after 9/11. Obviously the polititians didn't think there was enough political will to do so.
disneyr 4 years ago
Your still evading the iraq and ww2 relation. You focused a play on MY words, maybe in an outward attempt to diminish others and distract them from the freedom of thought which you lack.
Kris312 5 years ago
Tell me where i said i did not know who my enemies were. nice play on words, i take it thats all you have.
Kris312 5 years ago
When you ask me to define who our enemies are and you put the word enemies in quotation marks it indicates that you don't know who they are and are asking me to tell you.
After a quote from you like, "someone that denounces heat dances with fire", and you say all I have is a play on words? Please.
disneyr 5 years ago
I also have encountered the source of this post as well as many others playing the same hidden game. They tend to use words and slogans relating to the world we face, but those are not the message extended. The real communication is encoded in its manner. That is an attempted contest to determine who was somehow better than another. Your reply is a typical example to escape the real meaning.
Kris312 5 years ago
LOL " we took the war to them just like we did to the germans in world war 2" what a fucking moron.
Kris312 5 years ago
No need to use expletives here. It is moronic of you to start name calling without even putting out a counter argument.
disneyr 5 years ago
Please, the counter arguement to that statement is self-evident, which it appears escapes the minds of those who forgo the use of reason and intellect. Define who our "enemies" are today, then apply that to our current involvement in iraq and relate that to the situation to ww2. That statement holds the same credibility as the saying or thought that a fish cannot drown, which at first sounds factual and beleivable to the unknowing, but uppon further examination the reverse is truth.
Kris312 5 years ago
I appologize for the name calling.
But I find it ironic that someone that denounces heat dances with fire.
Kris312 5 years ago
I find it ironic that you don't know who your enemies are.
disneyr 5 years ago
No counter argument is self evident. Our enemies are those who wish to kill us (meaning Americans), destroy our country (meaning the U.S.A.) and our way of life. I think the military and ideological center of gravity for the jihadists has always actually been Iran. Since the Bush administration chose to fight in Iraq instead it has had the benefit making the Jihadists choose Iraq as their battlefield instead of the United States itself.
disneyr 5 years ago
American Flags? Pro U.S Chants? Must be a conservative rally. I mean, if there where Palastinian Flags and "Jews are our Dogs" chants then it would have been another protest from America's mis-guided morons the liberal minority.
Mile2020 5 years ago
the thing is there debating with someone who dosnt know anything , lmao i wish i was there to crush them.
cexu 5 years ago
ghahahahaha these gusy are funny guys lmao take the fight to them? hahahah hahahahahahah one word ignorant.
cexu 5 years ago
Dude... this is excellent! You should check out the video that I just uploaded to my youtube account. I want to debate these people. I want to know how they can be so blindly ignorant.
Kudos man... this was very good!!
MAZarillious 5 years ago
funny how i proved u so blindly ignorant.
cexu 5 years ago
That lady got owned.
shspunkrockr 5 years ago
how was the war coming to America. Were they going to use those weapons of mass destruction they didnt have.
TNTBezek 5 years ago
No they would most likely have backpacks full of explosives like they did in London. Maybe they would use a truck bomb like in Bali. Maybe they would use bombs like in Madrid, Spain or in Bombay, India. The tone of your comment seems to indicate you think the possibility of terrorist acts occuring in the U.S. are preposterous and that is just not the case.
disneyr 5 years ago
Murtha is wrong on many counts. I served 10 years active duty in South and Central America, Germany, the Balkans and other missions. I am still in the Reserves and I will definitely be doing a tour if and when Iran pushes the nuclear envelope. Someone does not have to serve to understand that we must fight to maintain our way of life.
disneyr 5 years ago
If you feel we should be over there(Iraq or Afghanistan)get to the nearest recruiting agency,,,numbers are so low Murtha is saying the draft will be needed to sustain this war.
vetul 5 years ago
That woman had no logical explanation for her reasonings. Thats what happens when you ask a liberal to back their opinion on the war against terrorism and Islamic faciscm. It's true though, we are fighting them there instead of on American soil.
cheesedoodle99 5 years ago
no wonder Bush is still in office, i just have this vision like everyone's out there on the streets, "wait wait, the terrorists are about to come"
"why?"
"cause we left Iraq!"
and aint a fuckin towelhead in site...
hahaha man, you pinheads!
toodeff 5 years ago
"All the terrorists are streaming to Iraq - we can kill them there" ------- Maybe we should kill them at birth and definitely before they are 6 months old. There must be someway we can recognise them at that age.
that argument makes zero sense, and has nothing to do with what was said. typical liberal.
hedpetcd 5 years ago
"What ever happened to Mushroom clouds..." Well, when we take the initiative and take the fight to the enemy it is more dificult for the enemy to take the fight to us.
disneyr 5 years ago
It was actually way before that. Eisenhower appeased the Saudis when they nationalized the oil rigs and refineries built by the Brits and USA. Eisenhower appeased the Egyptians when they nationalized the Suez Canal.
disneyr 5 years ago
Britain and America overthrew that democratically elected PM and the CIA created SAVAC. Torture, murder and some of the worst human abuses in history followed. We created it!
whatdoesitmatter 5 years ago
Also, it's funny how your starting point of hostilities in Iran was the hostage situation and bodies on the tarmac. The starting point was when the popular and democratically elected Prime minister of Iran decided to nationalise his own countries oil supplies - Washington and Britain didn't like that.
whatdoesitmatter 5 years ago
What ever happened to Mushroom clouds over American cities? I thought this was the reason for the pre-emptive strike. Now it seems the reason is to create a 'bring 'em on' scenario where "international terrorists" can be killed. Sorry, but the guy by the microphone is talking absolute tosh! The woman had her head screwed on.
whatdoesitmatter 5 years ago
"All the terrorists are streaming to Iraq - we can kill them there" ------- Maybe we should kill them at birth and definitely before they are 6 months old. There must be someway we can recognise them at that age. (end sarcasm)
whatdoesitmatter 5 years ago
If it weren't for the "corporate whores" as you put it, producing the products, there would be no money for the government to forcibly take. Nobody is putting a gun to anyone's head to buy gasoline. Are you suggesting Nixonian and Carteresque price controls like the 70's? Once again we would have gas lines.
disneyr 5 years ago
...environmental laws. Not to mention the huge amount of $ it takes. At the fastest a refinery could be built between 5-10 years. So what do the corporate whores do? Well they are sitting in the world's 3rd largest oil supply but can't put it to good use yet...hmm...well lets just jack up the prices and fuck the consumers over. Get it now disneyr?
Oipunxunite 5 years ago
No need to be patronizing, use vulgarity or to presume to be on the moral high ground ("Get it now disneyr?") The producers of gasoline make about 9 cents per gallon profit. Who you should really be angry with is the local, state and federal governments who take an average of 55 cents per gallon "profit". I live in Nevada where we are second only to Hawaii in the state portion of the gasoline tax. Nevada takes 33 cents per gallon.
disneyr 5 years ago
the belief system is based on history. the whole conspiracy theory that America was not really attacked by jihadists with jet airplanes is rediculous. Reality is real.
If this war was about oil, why didn't we just take the oil during the first Gulf War or why haven't we just taken it all now? If we had taken control of the oil in this war we would not have gas prices well over $3 a gallon like it is now.
disneyr 5 years ago
The reason the U.S. didn't take the oil is because we did not get an excellent opportunity to do so. We only institued forces in Kuwait. Now we can finish the job. The reason for the high gas prices is that the U.S. is too fucking hesitant to build more refineries becuase they do not want to deal with...
Oipunxunite 5 years ago
What better opportunity than having the most dominant force in the region (then and now)?
disneyr 5 years ago
Bush is a 33 degree freemason(Skull and Bones).We are revenue,and slaves that shou serve.We are sheeple to them.They have not investigated 9-11 and the people must demand this.I have seen computer analysis of 9-11 and it's results are truly stunning.Iran=ww3 and we must get rid of the Republicrats.High degree masons need to come forward.
vetul 5 years ago
These guys are debateting with belief systems installed by media.This is war for black oil,smokescreened by lies and deception.Remember the human race cannot be ruled if they know the truth.
vetul 5 years ago
Its funny how ignorant people like you still believe we went to Iraq for the oil...hhmm even though their is NO PROOF ANYWHERE that we've taken even one drop of it. Obviously your a democrat.
Helghast05 5 years ago
First Iam neither as they are republicrats,,,,Freemason's ran the show before,,,,now it's skull & bones (Presscott,H.Bush & G.W)
There allegance is to them.Resources of Iraq needed to be aquired as U.S. resources could not sustain growth,,listen to Carter and Layton make sense.I'm a Canadian watching my government follow yours and are crediblity is shot,,Peace Helghast
vetul 5 years ago
She was trying to come up with combacks, but she failed miserably!!!
jetstar186 5 years ago
seems like it
lindsey007 5 years ago
That woman is a dits.
MoshMasterD 5 years ago