Dr. John E. Mack exposes Carl Sagan on alien contactees

[plebshadowofra]

You do not need a PhD in psychiatry to understand the mechanics of illusion or (put more simply) the mechanics of being mistaken. Sagan in fact thought it highly probable that aliens exist. That does not mean that all of the current conspiracy hype is based on fact. Nor does it mean that all of the flying saucer hype of yesteryear was based on actual alien contact and observation. Far too much of our collective energy and attention is being spent on this trash.

[wmansue]

Diana alive, real target Dodi, movie producer.

Homeless NASA Prop Engineer "Terminated" by

Irish Klan met Diana NYC(1995)_Fed Civil Rights Case vs NASA

and Bush with Video. White Car? F-CIA-T, U Know?

NY Duchess mom headless on 9-11-98. M-ET Opera

"Klan Case"_singer D.O.A. AJ Pakula(Devil's Own) & H Ford Case

and Video_Pakula impaled on LIE(98). FBI WTC Case and

Video_WTC destroyed 9-11. George's little JFK Case and

Video_Plane crash. Harvard's Dr. John Mack "Contact"_London Road Kill.

[CMazzucco]

I respect both John Mack and Carl Sagan, both brilliant minds.

[candie8301972]

The problem with C, Sagan's quote is nothing but an opinion. Opinion is like a nose everyone has one. Just because everyone has one does not mean his or her opinion is correct and true.

[badblueman]

But at the end of the day it was Carl Sagan who sent a spaceship with an Ancient Sumerian greeting, as the first on the list, on the golden record into interstellar space. There really isn't a need for this bullshit "my scientist is better than your scientist" games. Carl Sagan is still cool and apparently just wanted things to be proven more conclusively...so what. He'd love Earth-visiting aliens to be proven, why curse him for having certain standards.

[loosekarrott]

if you're this defensive, chance are you're wrong

[revenez]

John Mack ---> psychiatrist

Carl Sagan --> astronomer

then, tell me: who's more reliable about hypnosis used to recall abductions?

[frogmaster3950]

@revenez Who is more reliable in dealings with E.T., a brilliant pioneering exo-biologist or a psychiatrist? Is the abduction memory phenomenon interesting? Yes, but we have many more plausible explanations than that they are really happening.

[PeaceOfTruth]

Dr. Carl Sagan, similar to many other astronomer and physicist are very open minded, human have the tendency to assume and or relate one thing to another automatically. Dr. Carl Sagan is a firm believer on extraterrestrial life, but to claim that one is contacted by them is an extraordinary claim and it would needs back up evidence. there are many cases that this happened, people assumed everything to be alien, rock with face on Mars are alien. Sagan was realistic and brilliant

[PeaceOfTruth]

@PeaceOfTruth Also,as a scientist, Carl Sagan had dedicated his life providing people with his knowledge of the cosmos during his time and tried his best to have people to base their belief or understanding on scientific facts or evidence instead of superstitions or just blind faith. The Book The Demon Haunted World aimed to encourage people to use critical thinking and to distinguish science and pseudoscience which can be religious-based. I think you guys need to read the book before you Judge.

[PeaceOfTruth]

@PeaceOfTruth John E Mack is a big believer that Alien is already here abducting people while Carl Sagan who is an astronomer that rely theories on evidence and scientific facts but he didn't completely deny the possibility of "alien abduction", he offered a possibility that these people CAN either hallucinated, assumed, or even lied. It is something worth considering. To understand these 2 opposing views, you need to watch a lectures by Dr. Seth Shostak on UFO at Arizona State University 

[PeaceOfTruth]

@PeaceOfTruth Dr. Carl Sagan might not be the one that know best about Hallucination but he does know what is common sense. Dr. Carl Sagan had done alot more than what John E Mack here had. Not only did he contributed to a project in detecting and searching for extraterrestrial life, he spent years educating and inspiring the public to believe that extraterrestrial life are very well possible! But he kept it professional and realistic based on scientific evidence and facts. That is SCIENCE

[PICLex]

@PeaceOfTruth

Science is also ignorance in Sagans's case. Like the saying, condemnation without investigation is the height of ignorance. Science also serves to provide hollow answers. What is an atom? Science can only describe relationships between things it can't actually provide absolute answers. Im just saying because im sick of science being used as a form of belief structure. Science is devoid of belief, it can make a car, and send us to the moon, but it cannot provide an answer beyond 47

[JaysCyYoung1]

@PeaceOfTruth

Except John Mack was a medical doctor and qualified psychiatrist of over four decades at the best university on the planet. He's a tad more qualified than Sagan when it comes to mental health one would think.

[frogmaster3950]

@JaysCyYoung1 I should point you to the research of Dr. Rick Strassman, M.D. In 1988 while holding a full-time academic position in the department of psychiatry at the University of New Mexico School of Medicine, he injected volunteers with a high dose of DMT, a psychedelic drug that is found in small quantities naturally in the human body. 20% of the volunteers had experiences identical to purported alien abductions. Kind puts a damper on ole Johnny Mack's work, huh?

[monsieurkarl]

@frogmaster3950 Doesn't mean to say aliens aren't already here, because some people on DMT had a trip like an alien abduction experience. What about the reported "craft" which have been seen by millions and millions of people world-wide defying physics, air force pilots giving chase to no avail, astronauts, presidents all competent witnesses.

[frogmaster3950]

@monsieurkarl It does mean that the experience of being abducted can be totally created in the mind, which would lends much credence to the idea that all abduction experiences are hallucinations. I'm glad that you put craft in quotation marks. There is no reason to believe that they are crafts simply because they are above the ground, and even if they are, there is no reason to believe that they are manufactured and/or piloted by alien beings, as that would be wildly jumping to conclusions.

[monsieurkarl]

@frogmaster3950 The whole phenomena is completely speculative, what are your thoughts on it as a whole then? what do you subscribe to? If anything at all.

[frogmaster3950]

@monsieurkarl Well, for the sake of saying, let's just throw out all less credible types of sightings that would be chalked up to natural phenomena that we are aware of, people that are just lying to get 15 minutes of small time fame, and people simply misidentifying known aircraft. The hardcore true blue UFO sightings? I would say that they are a mixture of highly classified aircraft sightings and natural phenomena that we simply aren't aware of, at least publicly. What do you think?

[monsieurkarl]

@frogmaster3950 My thoughts are near enough the same. The vast majority could be explained in conventional, rational ways, completely agree with that. Perhaps some sightings could be secret technology, although most legitimate sightings of UFOs seem to defy laws of physics (gravity, inertia etc.) and quite obviously in most cases are intelligently controlled. In my mind, if it's not us then it's got to be aliens. Bear in mind in the 40's and 50's we couldn't do what they're doing technologically

[monsieurkarl]

@monsieurkarl cont. and sightingswere plentiful, as are today. I just read Leslie Kean's new book UFO's Generals, Pilots and Government officials go on the record. Highly recommend reading it, it is very well presented and has plenty of witness with hands-on experience when it comes to chasing these things.

[frogmaster3950]

@monsieurkarl The most intelligent thing that they seem to do is interact with aircraft. Ball could do that or some similar unidentified atmospheric happenings.

[monsieurkarl]

@frogmaster3950 That's where we differ, I believe, from various research and books I've read that It is obvious theyre under intelligent control especially when it comes to interacting with aircraft, there's many accounts of pilots chasing and firing upon them and the apparent UFO evades the bullets/missiles or manoveurs at such speed that it is impossibe to catch. Surely even unknown atmospheric phenomena couldnt move at thousands of MPH and just stop suddenly? To me it just doesn't make sense

[PeaceOfTruth]

@JaysCyYoung1 I think you didn't read what I said at all. If you read all my comments to these video, which there are severals on next page, you would find that this statement you just made is irrelevant and unnecessary since I didn't deny John Mack of his experience, and if you watch Carl Sagan videos and his opinion on intelligent extraterrestrial life already here, as i briefly said in other comments, even John Mack sounds unprofessional, irrelevant with his attack, and deluded in his rage.

[paulagloria]

@PeaceOfTruth could you direct me to Carl Sagan videos and his opinion on intelligent extraterrestrial life as it relates to John Mack's work?

[omnisenseDOTorg]

I'm not saying Sagan wasn't a smart guy, and smoking weed doesn't mean much. Bill Gates and Paul Allen said they smoke a joint occasionally a decade ago. But his views on Contactees were unimaginative and false. I have been in contact since 2008, so I know his thoughts were false on the matter. The people who say ET contact is mental illness are the same people who were burning people at the stake for science progress and the same people who insisted the earth was flat so long ago.

[MrPrawdaboli]

This men is just gelous because he isnt such wise as Sagan .He can write some article but it changes nothing.

[olga2415]

Carl Sagan lost credibility with me when I read that he proposed a time when mankind would be able to disassemble Jupiter materially and reassemble it closer in orbit to the earth. Who in the hell did he think he was, God?

[olga2415]

@olga2415 continued....does anyone understand the sort of ego it takes to look forward to an objective such as to rearrange the damn planets; the degree of narcissism it takes to have such an ambition? The man lived in "la la land", yet was highly rewarded for being as insane as he was and as willing to make such outlandish statements he did. Man has yet to get to the moon and back in one piece. Man has not proven the existence of space aliens, for all their propaganda efforts.

[Beerxolf]

Sagan was a realist, he told facts, not science fiction. It wasn't that he didn't believe or thought less of people who did.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence - Carl Sagan

[tjrxk7]

Carl Sagan was nothing but a mouthpiece for the government that used his credentials to further keep information from the people. May that phony rot in hell!

[soadfan978506]

FUCKING LOL YOU THINK WEED MAKES YOU HAVE HALLUCINATIONS HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA kid, this guys a world renown physicist, you're a fucking nobody, smoke weed then come back and tell me about your "hallucinations" hahahah you fucking ignorant piece of shit, most of our presidents smoked weed, are they now "stoners" and not brilliant people too? stupid fuck, no one says you have to like weed, just don't make incredibly ignorant statements like that, most of the famous people you know smoke

[NoxiousNova]

I think Carl is proposing this as a possibility, not accusing people of being crazy. Of all people in this world to want to believe in UFOS related to extraterrestrials, Carl Sagan is first on the list in my opinion. I have not yet read this book of his, but from his others, I can tell that he doesn't assume anything, he just questions and proposes ideas. No hard feelings on poor Carl, lol. =D

[StarvingForTruth]

@NoxiousNova

whatever. sagan had a broad and unbending reputation for being a condescending jerk to anybody and everybody. he meant his remarks to be as obnoxious as they appear to be. he was just a pompous hack with no expertise on this matter whatsoever - not the UFO literature, and not psychology.

a hack.

[TheGinnyOrchid]

What will Sagan say when the truth stares him in his face and he sees clearly with his own eyes (and mind ) the truth?

[DVAFP]

@TheGinnyOrchid probably nothing cause he's dead

[m00nCh1ld714]

right on! much as I love Sagan.. John Mack was far cooler, who did far more. <3

[Koolvedge]

Sagan was a gatekeeper that did as he was told, or controlled to do.

[MrMalavon]

It's not an uninformed nor biased because there is no proof. Blurry videos? Please. Testimonies? Worth as much as that of people saying they can feel "God" (which Dawkins refers to as hallucinations and rightfully so).

I'm sure that if any conclusive evidence existed Sagan would have changed his mind, as any good scientist would. More so Sagan would have loved to know about alien species but the evidence just isn't there.

[hobbitsarecool]

@MrMalavon

you speak more wisely here than most others. I think that if there was enough evidence, Sagan would have accepted that aliens exist. You rightly claim that there really isn't enough evidence to say that aliens have visited the earth. And wasn't Sagan a key player in setting up SETI.

[RockingKraut]

@MrMalavon

If he fully did research, there have been many times where forensic evidence has been taken. I'm not saying its true at all, but the stigma of saying, "Hey look this might have come from an extraterrestrial ship" in the science world is just insulting. Instead of looking, they blow it away.

[StarvingForTruth]

@MrMalavon

It's fine to be skeptical, but to blow off millions of eye witnesses, thousands of videos, testimony from the military about everything from radar hits to interceptions and attempted shoot down, physical evidence....

and then to just call it a 'hallucination' without ANY training on hallucinations themselves - and btw, nobody REALLY knows what they are or what they mean - that's not science. that's being a HACK.

[2009wildmonkey1]

get a camra with a dvr and tape this.put the camras all over your room

[MartinDastardlyAston]

What a knobhead

[ImperatorDerGalaxis]

Go, Mack, you're the man.

[xxbarelyhumanxx]

damn man you couldnt post the whole video

[c1zx]

Bravo! God I wish John Mack was still here. He was so awesome.

Really, Carl Sagan, hallucinations, oh brother, how is it that scientists can make the most fundamental mistakes - that of making completely uninformed and biased judgements about that which they know nothing! It's soooooo....unscientific.

[AlienScientist]

I know c1zx... Some of us are trying to reverse that!

[MobiusBandwidth]

Right on! Sagan did a lot to popularise science, but he was shamefully anti-scientific when it came to this important un-ignorable phenomena.

[Lukieloo]

I believed life on other planets existed and that we were probably being visited, but didn't think it had anything to do with my life -- until one showed up in my bedroom and I was fully awake at the time. Changed everything . . .

[BluCosmos]

Haha. This is a funny video.

[cybersputnik]

Some of Sagan's "explanations" why people see UFO's: It appears that all human behavior and experience is well attended by illusory and hallucinatory phenomena. While the relationship of these phenomena to mental illness has been well documented, their role in everyday life has perhaps not been considered enough. Greater understanding of illusions and hallucinations among normal people may provide explanations for experiences otherwise relegated to the uncanny, "extrasensory," or supernatural.

[cybersputnik]

This was from book 'The Demon Haunted World'

[spiritforpeace]

I sincerely hope that I am merely hallucinating that I am reading your opinion.

[McMearty1]

Thanks, cybersputnik, for including that quote from Carl Sagan's book. Sagan was brilliant, and that simple quote proves it.

[cybersputnik]

@McMearty1 Nope he was not brilliant he was a stoner. Sagan accused that majority of people suffers from hallucinations while he was the one who actually suffered from them since he was a regular weed smoker and wrote all of his books under the influence of marijuana. But that's how it works: as long as you write against UFOs you're considered smart although and even to top his quasi-psychological "conclusions" against professionally trained dr. Mack.

[vent5]

@cybersputnik Well, Carl Sagan later retracted some of his statements regarding UFOs, he did believe in the drake equation. He wasn't totally opposed to the idea of ETs, he was just very skeptical of the enormous amounts of abduction claims. I believe in abductions, but I believe that only a small percentage of the people claiming to have been abducted are telling the truth.

[regularmatt]

@cybersputnik you ovbsily havent smoke weed ever in your life lmao

[cybersputnik]

@regularmatt you obviously never read Sagan because he wrote about his strong cannabis induced hallucinations.

[regularmatt]

@cybersputnik have you ever somked weed ? i guess not so then shut up =D

[frogmaster3950]

@cybersputnik You try to make it out like he smoked weed and then tripped like he dropped acid. One can have very coherent and insightful thoughts while very high on weed. Equating the use of weed for inspiration to the ramblings of UFO nuts is stupid.

[cybersputnik]

@frogmaster3950 Well for followers of his cult of personality obviously more coherent than pilots and astronauts who claim they saw flying saucers and aliens Sagan dismissed as not credible, insane, religious nuts and not sober minded like him. Because he is guardian of science with this cult of personality and if he says something is impossible then it must be truth for his followers.

[frogmaster3950]

@cybersputnik No coherent pilot or astronaut would claim to have seen an alien spacecraft because they would know that there is no logical reason to jump to that conclusion. I doubt that Carl Sagan dismissed all UFO sightings as the work of insane and delusional people, because UFO's are obviously real things. Maybe he dismissed people that claimed them to be alien space ships because there is no proof what so ever that is the case.

[cybersputnik]

@frogmaster3950 No, Sagan just ignored those people like astronaut Gordon Cooper who claimed to see alien spacecrafts. Or just recently L. Kean promoted her book on ufos on msnbc where "skeptics" told her that pilots are not reliable witnesses, they're not trained enough. So I guess only those guys like stoned Carl Sagan are the ones who can claim if we see something or not.

[JaysCyYoung1]

@frogmaster3950

Gordon Cooper

Edgar Mitchell

Buzz Aldrin

Neil Armstrong refusing to talk about the issue and looking visibly upset.

Not to mention hundreds of pilots, cosmonauts, naval aviators, and other trained observers who recognize an innumerable total of crafts, their shapes, and trajectories. People denying the reality of alien visitation are akin to those in Plato's Allegory of the Cave who remained chained to their walls as prisoner's while refusing to hear the truth.

[frogmaster3950]

@JaysCyYoung1 I don't deny outright that we haven't been visited, I just deny that we have proper evidence to jump to that monumental conclusion. I don't doubt that Gordo and the other fly boys saw things that they couldn't explain. To assume that what they saw was piloted by aliens is uncalled for, to say the least.

[JizzOnAPetriDish]

@cybersputnik

He didn't write all of his books while high. He occasionally smoked marijuana with his wife.

‎

Carl Sagan was one of the most Brilliant minds in the last hundred years, no doubt, and attacking him as a person as a defense for your own position is an incredibly fallacious and low blow.

[JizzOnAPetriDish]

@cybersputnik

"I can remember one occasion, taking a shower with my wife while high, in which I had an idea on the origins and invalidities of racism in terms of gaussian distribution curves,'' wrote the former Cornell University professor. "I wrote the curves in soap on the shower wall, and went to write the idea down." - Carl Sagan

Clearly his occasional use of marijuana did not make him intellectually impaired.

[EonPeon]

@McMearty1 So everyone in Phoenix, Arizona, were hallucinating the night the giant UFO flew over (which was televised as well)..?

[pnisvgina]

This man just exposed himself. Sad.

[spiritforpeace]

Why? Sagan is not a psychiatrist, has no psychiatric training, never taught clinical psych at a medical school and has no information in his academic formal training on the nature of hallucination... while John Mack does have the training, experience, and the academic credibility.

[theseaotter]

I must take exception to the phrase 'on the basis of nothing'. Dr. Sagan's writings on the subject detail the research he did and cite sources frequently. Including a quote from John Mack. Even if you disagree with his conclusions, I see no way to claim he was ignorant on the subject. Mack became interested in abduction experiences only after he asked Sagan if there was anything to it, and receiving the answer that is was a psychiatric phenomenon.

[itsabomberscope]

Carl sagan was great, and so was John E Mack. They just approached it form very different perspectives. Carl Sagan wasnt completely against the idea of abductions, all he wanted was evidence.

This may be hard to produce if the phenomenon works in a way we cant understand. All we seem to have is the words of the people who say they have been abducted.

One problem maybe be that we start with a premise that we think its not possible, and therfore fit all conclusions into that first premise.

[SWORDOFTRUTH9]

Carl Sagan was a punk.

[BlondeDisorder]

That is the funnies thing I heard today.

Carl Sagan was a punk ass bee-ach!

I love Cosmos though. He may sound like Martha Stewart, but I like most of what he did.

Shadows of Forgotten ancestors was awesome.

Too bad he was such materialist.

[BottomFeeder10]

Funny how you had to disable ratings since you knew this crap would get one star. Carl Sagan has explained many times that there was no hard evidence for these alien abductions.

[1gunner1000]

are you fucking kidding me? what a retard, i am so sick of idiots like you, look around you, do the resurch, stop being a snivling little cowerd, it is only fear of the unknown that stopes you from doing the resurch you coward, they have been comming here for thousands of years, grow up and get some balls you chicken shit, go watch the disclosure project idiot. so many stupid people here, i am tired of it, and spare me you lame spelling comments you idiot.

[SaganAppreciationSoc]

Maybe you could cite this article by Dr. Sagan. I'd like to see it for myself.

[SaganAppreciationSoc]

4 months later, and no article has been cited.

[theseaotter]

I'm assuming he's referring to Chapter 6 of Sagan's book 'The Demon Haunted World', which is entitled 'Hallucinations', and discusses alien abduction experiences.

[SaganAppreciationSoc]

Thanks. As it happens, i have that on my MP3 player as we speak. I'll check it out.

Anyway, until one of these people grabs a piece of evidence, it will remain just a modern version of succubus and witch attacks.

Ya know, if i thought i was being abducted every so often, i'd save up for a camera and security system for my bedroom.

[pnisvgina]

I second that.