(cont'd) 3. There is an absoluteness about morality that cuts across all divisions of race and time. Do unto others what you would have them do unto you. This is shared by ALL the major religions of the world. RD is talking thru hs hat when he says we don't 'need' religion. Take away all the religions that have ever existed and you will have complete and utter chaos (as can already be seen among those who have deviated - including religious fanatics)
@MrDevilstreaker :Evil happens and chaos reigns where God is not present in the hearts of people. Not every person who says "Lord" is necessarily religious. Anyone can 'profess' to belong to one religion or another. To live in awe and love of God, to love and serve all people, to forgive those who offend you: if all people lived like this, there would be no room for hate, war, exploitation.
@1sola1verita Oh dear - How can you believe all that - its completely hearsay from a 2000 year old text. Besides I dont really care what you believe as long as you're happy - show us some proof and we will believe in your god.
@MrDevilstreaker As I said, it is self-evident. You do not want to believe in God. So why do u ask for proof? God is not an 'object' to be measured by scientific research or cold mathematical calculations... nor is He a magician who 'performs' on command.
St-Antoine-de-Exupery said, "It is only with the heart that one can see clearly: that which is essential, is invisible to the eye."
"Evil happens and chaos reigns where God is not present in the hearts of people"
- bad shit happens everywhere irrespective of belief in god; and if prison statistics are anything to go by then belief in god likely increases it.
"Not every person who says 'Lord' is necessarily religious"
- sure, but unless you can read the persons mind you have no basis for contesting their faith and are simply trying to distance yourself from them via a no-true-scotsman fallacy.
1. We need to distinguish btw the morals we have & our actions. Naturally, our actions should be in line with basic morals (do good, avoid evil) but often this is not the case. Auschwitz is an extreme example of lack of morals, whatever hitler 'professed' to believe.
2. It may be hard to see, but there is also much good in this world - why do people only point to evil events? If there were no good, we would have long since destroyed the planet and ourselves.
Dawkins prefaces his definition by saying," I believe;" it seems as if he has his own credo of which self elucidation is the new divine inspiration; empirical senses aided by high-powered tools are the new no-need-to-be-holy spirt, and a consortium of fellow believers makes for an academic sanhedrin ready to offer us all guidance in the postmodern world.
I am Muslim and morality is a natural thing given by god. Every human being is naturally born with morals. Every human being is born to have faith in god naturally until hi parents or the environment around him changes his beliefs.
@plung3r What is your evidence that morality celestially ordained? Along with that: What about other faiths especially the two other faiths of Abrahamic faith
, being that they differ from Islam, is their morality relevant since they don't accept Allah, nor Mohammed?
@plung3r This is a flawed assumption as religion is always an acquired faith. Back when cavemen saw rain, lightning, or heard thunder, this was something that had to be acquired (aka post-partum) in order to make the connection that a deity may have been involved. A fetus has no knowledge of thunder, lightning, or anything of such. Only rudimentary sights and sounds.
The same can be said for faith, since it's not possible to introduce faith until after one is born. It can't be innate by nature
I do have a point: what are the sources of good morality? And how can one identify which source is wrong or right. One's Morality and consciousness is developed by one's own experience, exposure and environment.
Eg. Some find pornography abhorrent and evil, others defend it by calling it "freedom" and "free will" and "modern art". Same goes for greed, lust, abuse.
Why should our morals evolve according to the society for us to better adapt n survive? And A lot of good this is doing these days.
Richard Dawkins INSTINCT and MORALITY is not the same.200 million years of animal instinct will not 'magically produce' human 'morality !
Eg. When dogs attack, they do so according to instinct; thus they all behave similarily within a particular species.
Humans have CONSCIENCE rather than instinct: his inner voice guides him independently of what others may tell him. He also knows when he is doing wrong.
Interesting....so where does CONSCIENCE come from? Do we have a conscience simply because we have a brain?
Sci-fi writer Isaac Asimov said that the main problem of producing 'intelligent robots' was the question of morals... if a robot has a "brain", how come it cannot distinguish btw right & wrong?
Dawkins is mightily confused here (and it is noticeable that he consults no moral philosophers here). He is giving a causal account of our moral judgements. But it UNDERMINES those judgements. Yes, it explains why we make moral judgements, but it also debunks them.
If my moral judgements are caused solely by psychology, and not by an objective morality itself, then our moral beliefs are all false.
He's an idiot. A complete idiot and the fallacy is painfully obvious.
@1sola1verita Serial killers are psychopathic. They are diseased, and while we often call them "evil" this makes about as much sense as calling a lion evil for killing a calf. Stalin and Hitler most certainly had morals and believes what they were doing was right according to those morals. Hitler, in particular, acted in large part to defend traditional CHRISTIAN morals, which is why millions of Catholics and Protestants went along with him.
@cStuartHardwick A serial killer doesn't have a 'disease' . Malaria and typhoid are diseases. A person who kills repeatedly is... satanic. Stalin, Hitler and such-like had no morals,but they definitely had IDEOLOGIES. There's a difference... Please do NOT associate Christianity with Hitler just because you hate Christians --- and don't swallow everything that RDawkins says...
@1sola1verita I do not hate Christians, but Hitler WAS a Christian, a Catholic, and while many in the Church did speak and act against him, others cooperated with his "final solution" and he explicitly invoked the bible and Christianity in Mien Kampf and a dozen public speeches. You might not agree with his interpretation of Christianity, but do not pretend he was other than he was to avoid the association. And yes, psychopaths are diseased. Viruses and bacteria are not the only pathologies.
@cStuartHardwick Not everyone who says "Lord, Lord" shall enter the kingdom of God.... and many who are not Christians, who will enter the Kingdom of God.
Not everyone who mentions the name of Jesus, not everyone who quotes the Bible is a Christian. Know what I mean?
Hitler was a fanatic. A fanatic is a madman.... no matter what 'religion' he professes to have.
Do not judge Christianity by the false Christians.
@cStuartHardwick Psychopaths are evil; psychology would prefer NOT to have to deal with the concept of good and evil because it enters the realm of spirituality... which is anathema to psychology.
What kind of morals do you suppose hitler & stalin had? The fundamental moral of humanity is: DO GOOD, AVOID EVIL.
Our morals are revealed in our actions, which speak much louder than words.
@1sola1verita Hitler believed that Jews were evil and that a police state was justified in the interest of restoring "traditional morals".
"I believe today that my conduct is in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator."- Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 2
In this regard, he was not unlike the modern Taliban or the religiously motivated historical revisionists on the Texas Board of Education. They differ only in circumstance and degree.
"What kind of morals do you suppose hitler & stalin had? The fundamental moral of humanity is: DO GOOD, AVOID EVIL."
- the problem with your statement is that 'good' and 'evil' are just things that refer t things we do and dont like. if Hitler thought that killing Jews was 'good' then he'd be acting in a manner completely consistent with his morality.
Very good response. I have yet to find a moral evolutionist who had family at Auschwitz. If man has evolved morally, there certainly is no evidence of it.
Dead-to-the-spirit deluded "God Delusion" author & blithering fool scientist goon Richard Dawkins another "leader" given 2 the profane masses is another useful idiot 4 Jesuit machinations
Jesuitical; pertaining to the Jesuits or their principals; designing; cunning; deceitful; prevaricating
The Jesuit Order completely altered the education system 2 suit their Evo-Hoax Agenda to discredit the Bible
Papal Rome cant have their Counter Reformation 2nd Dark Age DESPOTISM until Bible is destroyed
"Dead-to-the-spirit deluded "God Delusion" author & blithering fool scientist goon Richard Dawkins another "leader" given to the profane masses is another useful idiot for Jesuit machinations"-C.O.
Jesuitical: pertaining to the Jesuits or their principals; designing; cunning; deceitful; prevaricating
The Jesuits completely altered the education system to suit their evolution agenda to discredit the Bible. They cant have a Satanic society of 'Do as Thou Wilt' if people still follow the Bible.
What makes things "wrong" is the negative effect an act has on ones life. Not the act itself. Rape is wrong because it's a violation of ones own personal body when not invited and consensual. Murder is wrong on the same bases. Child molestation is wrong because the child is not maturely cognitively adept to even comprehend what is going on. It's the negative effect it has on someone beyond there own control or permission. Much like when your God "created" me without me asking to be created.
1@2:17 'mutual empathy' yeah maybe towards those we care about (like family)
Pablo escobar had love/empathy for his family unfortunately (??) it didn't extend to everyone,because it MAKES NO SENSE in our CAPITALISTIC WESTERN SOCIETY to do so.See things are much more complicated/complex than this big hippy,love,utopian rave like dream world that some believe is possible if only........ this /that (religion) was non existant.....why because its MAN/NATURE not religion,politics,race,culture...MAN
100% agree!! So many proclaim that without religion everyone would be better off, okay then, religion gone now what? Poverty, crime, lust, greed, racism, discriminiation, classism etc. All these evils will continue to exist!!
1:55 -2:15 we only ASSUME this about others.We can't KNOW what others REALLY think.Many have desires and wants but do never mention them or practice because of one thing FEAR (of consequences) take/shed this aspect away and......................
I believe mans true nature is capitalistic.We ALWAYS want a bit more than the next (one uppance) I don't care for religion much and put it up their with the easter bunny,but i do see the POINT of it.I remember as a young boy doing certain things i internalised as wrong,then as i grew into adulthood,the people who believed these things wrong ,surpirse,surprise now say its all good.Now i question what else is ok then.... i now find myself with a VERY weakened sense of so-called right and wrong.
the core source is imagination..we can always imagine something better than what we have. then we covet those fantasies..we are left seeking that which we covet..and there's always someone to sell us something we covet. capitalism then follows.
@PimpMyParadigm lmfao stoneing gays to death,telling woman they are stupid,and what about all that raping your ministers are doing to little boys religion is sick and twisted i recomend reading the bible from cover to cover and you will see how stupid its is
@BIackRider lol is sad that when say something like that ppl take me seriously bc there are actually religitards out there who will defend the bible without knowing whats in it....thanks for the clip
Yes, comrade...your interpretation of the bible is in no way based on an obvious prejudicial passion, I tip my cap also since you read things in historical context. I appreciate your objective assessment: this is further evidence to affirm atheists are really elitists in their 'rational thinking' and those of the faith are simply benign parasites who wish to delude society with nonsensical garbage.
I love atheists, they are without a doubt the most entertaining people. :)
Topics: DEADLY ARGUMENTS NOW ADDED For The Creationism-Evolutionism Debate (See Subchapter 10.2.2.), The Issue On The Criminal Liability Of Foretelling The END OF THE WORLD, Other Debated Issues, Terrorism, War, Law, Politics, Religion, Philosophy, Science, Others.
Websites: balanceddiet1.yolasite.com
See Figure 4, which is THE MEANING OF THE PYRAMID, at figure4etc.yolasite.com
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Topics: The Issue On The Criminal Liability Of Foretelling The END OF THE WORLD, Other Debated Issues, Terrorism, War, Law, Politics, Religion, Philosophy, Science, Others.
Websites: balanceddiet1.yolasite.com etc.
See Figure 4, which is THE MEANING OF THE PYRAMID, at figure4etc.yolasite.com
or
figure4etc3.yolasite.com
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I am yet to hear an atheist apologize for offending a christian. Don't expect christians to worry about offending you either. Whether you know it or not...you atheists serve satan and christians detest him AND his followers. We also GREATLY out number you, so get over yourselves!!! Whether you believe in God or not he is coming back and you will be judged for everything you say, think, and do. He won't be coming back to preach!
@hotemil I’m far happier now that I’ve let go of the deluded poison that caused me to tell others they deserve eternal torment at the hands of a tyrant who requires your obedience. The suicide rate is highest among believers, not atheists. We understand this may be the only life we have and it needs to be lived and enjoyed to the fullest. We spend our time trying to make this world better. You try and drag it back down into the dark ages of ignorance.
Many atheists though, will feel superior just cause their indoctrination failed or never was, or just cause they have a high IQ - failing to realise this was all probability, ramdomness and not their merit. They might fall in the primitive trap of placing their own Ego on top of all, a trap that all religions tried to help the human avoid, including the Great Juju of the Sea! LOL.
While religions had a spiritual motive to avoid that, you have no logical reason to do otherwise.
The only thing that truly provides protection is the redemption of Jesus Christ. If I will simply hand myself over to Him, I will never have to experience the terrible possibilities that lie within my heart. Purity is something far too deep for me to arrive at naturally. But when the Holy Spirit comes into me, He brings into the center of my personal life the very Spirit that was exhibited in the life of Jesus Christ, namely, the Holy Spirit, which is absolute unblemished purity. - O.S. Chambers
@ndrummer99 If your morality depends on a deity to tell you what to do then you aren't actually being moral at all. You're just submitting to authority whether it's actions are moral or not. You don't do any work, or seek redemption for your wrong doings, you just expect God to magically clean you up. Doesn't sound very moral to me.
@ndrummer99 Morality is principles concerning the distinction between right and wrong or good and bad behavior. There is no intrinsic absolute standard of right and wrong, which is probably we're you're going to go with this. Morality operates on two scales; individual morality and morality in group/societies. Individual morality is all relative, though most people agree on a certain set of core values. Societies operate the same just on a larger scale. The simple answer is WE define morality.
@Drunkenprophet23 So if everyone decided rape is cool, then rape is cool. I see. I'm really glad it doesn't work that way! So where did the idea of right and wrong come from? Who invented it?
@ndrummer99 Actually, yes. If everyone decided rape is cool then who would argue? EVERYONE thinks it's cool. However, beings with intelligent, empathetical, minds understand that violating another being will cause them trauma and harm, that's why almost all consider rape to be wrong. The root of all morality is empathy and social benefit. If one understands that something hurts/benefits them, than one understands the same will hurt/benefit others. That's the core and beginnings of morality.
@Drunkenprophet23 So rape exists because of a lack of intelligence? You are very wrong. Morality and intelligence aren't the same thing. Serial killers are some of the most intelligent people out their.
@ndrummer99 Intelligence and empathy. Studies show that most who commit the act say they experience remorse later. There are many reasons why people do things even though they think it's wrong or end up regretting it later but that's a different topic. But there are some who don't feel any remorse toward the victim. These people lack empathy not IQ. It doesn't change the fact that the reason most people feel rape is wrong is because they are intelligent enough beings to have empathy for others.
God decides what is right and wrong. No one else can. There are 6 billion people, can we expect people to decide the morality? 6 billion decisions? The one who created us knows best what is best for us, so he has laid down what is right and wrong. It is this simple.
@hotemil Yes, actually. No matter what you attribute to your God it IS societies that decide what is moral and immoral, except under dictatorships. When it's left in the hands of one is when things go bad, when laws are made by the people societies do much better. Besides if you're going to give control to "God" how are you going to get 6 billion people to decide on which God. Just leave God out. He doesn't help.
@Drunkenprophet23 why don't soldiers make decisions themselves in the battlefield? but take orders from the one commander? interesting. and so many other examples.. get sober and realize the fact. Maybe then you will change you nickname
@hotemil They are trained to do so. I have nothing against soldiers but essentially they are brainwashed; convinced that they must obey every word of their commander without question. It operates quite a lot like a religion actually. It's not morality, it's obedience to authority. So what exactly is your point? You didn't actually make one you just told me to "get sober and realize the fact". What fact are you talking about? You didn't actually mention one.
@Drunkenprophet23 Dude point was there. If soldiers in the battlefield do not obey commands from a commander, they will do what they want to do, some of them will run, some of them will do anything they want.. easily becoming chaotic action. That's why commander in chief is there to guide them together to one mission. In Netherlands,people may think prostitution is normal, in america people may think wearing tight jeans or shorts is normal, in arab they think none of this is normal. Who decides?
@hotemil Who decides? People do. That's why morality is different all over the world. We mostly agree on a set of core values, but there are differences throughout different cultures. If we really were programmed with a conscience, from one God, that instills in us the same moral compass, then we could expect to find morality the same all over the world and in each individual. But we don't. There is no absolute standard of right and wrong. People ultimately decide.
@Drunkenprophet23 You just dont care about the existence of a creator, so you are preconditioned to give counter arguments. Therefore, there is no point in this discussion. When you happen to make a suicide in the future, like many people do in Japan thinking there is no point to live, go and do a good research and read some scriptures. It is hell or heaven, and you choose it by being obedient to creator. He created us to worship him, not have fun.
@hotemil Of course I care about the existence of a creator. That's why I have conversations like this. Unfortunately, more often then not, the person ends up threatening me with hell instead of giving me good arguments or reasons for their beliefs. Which leads me to believe they have no good arguments or reasons for their beliefs. You're the first to tell me I'll commit suicide though. Btw was a Christian almost my whole life and have read the bible extensively.
@Drunkenprophet23 This is not a good place for discussions like this. So what happened why did you became atheist? Why didn't you move on exploring other religions? Search for Yusha Evans, he was christian too, but he finally found what he was looking for.
@hotemil I will look up Yusha Evans. I became an atheist by trying to convert atheists to Christianity. Listening to their arguments forced me to reconsider my beliefs and it wasn't a fast process. In fact I clung to Christianity for dear life for a long time, but eventually I had to admit I didn't know if God existed and I had no good reason to believe anymore. I am searching other religions but atheism is the default position. If this isnt a good place for this conversation feel free to PM me.
@Drunkenprophet23 Awesome conversation. I too struggle with it, and contemplate a lot. I would like to offer a couple points: what happened before the big bang? Also what if we as humans have not reached our fullest potential and therefore cannot fathom what God is? I dislike people on either side that use crude words for those that do not share their ideas or faith. But for me, it seems miraculous, almost impossible that all of existence happened by chance.
@UltraEpicLoser As for your two questions the answer to both is unknown. There may not have been anything prior to the big bang, or there may have been something. We may have reached our fullest potential as humans, or we may have a long way to go. What we shouldn't do is use our current iggnorance as an excuse to fill in the gaps with answers like "God did it." Let's be honest about things we don't know and just say; we don't know yet, maybe we never will, but we'll never stop looking.
@hotemil As for your statement about soldiers and following orders, yes, I suppose you have a point there. But you are still not talking about morality; you’re talking about obedience to authority. When one submits to an authority, unquestionably, they are no longer making any moral decisions for themselves and thus have no place talking about morality. They are not being moral, they are being obedient.
I believe in God. i believe he gave us our morality. i also "belive that there is kindess, charity and generosity in human nature." i also believe that these traits were caused by evolution. I'am a christian, i believe in evolution.
@setiwoh if you can explain something without the need for god, you should exclude god from the discussion altogether. Otherwise you sound like a retard.
@joshuarayborn yes. but i still believe in God, whether or not i sound like an idiot. see, i don't believe in God to explain things. i believe in God and this belief happens to explain things.
@joshuarayborn Einstein also said, "Religion without science is blind." but also that "Science without religion is lame.' An example of Science being lame without religion(keep in mind that I do believe in the big bang theory) might be the bigbang theory. Scientist believe that at one time there was no life. and then there was. but i thought the theory spontaneous generation was agreed by all to be stupid and nonesense?
@setiwoh Abiogenesis explains in great detail how life can come from non-life. Read up on it. Also Einstein was NOT religious at all, but he often used words like god, or religion as synonyms for "the unknown" or "high interest in" or nature itself. He is very clearly documented stating that religious, deistic, beliefs of some divine man in the sky making things happen and watching you have sex as completely bogus. (The hate mail he received due to these comments are amazingly comical to read)
I don't think there's anything wrong with being taught values from the Bible or the Torah or the Koran though. Morality is different than people using religion to substitute science.
Every time that I ponder about the universe and its phenomenal existence, it makes my Muslim faith stronger.Therefore evolution is actually a strengthening factor in searching for reality and it goes in parallel with true faith.
You make some very good points I have definitely heard bible thumpers saying that without god the world would be full of rapists and child molesters yet they don't seem to notice all of the catholic priests that make up a great majority of rapists and child molesters :P
Amazing how someone so intelligent can be so clueless. Dawkins uses words like "good" and "right and wrong." Who defines those terms? The government? The majority? The government and the majority thought slavery was right - it took a few people to point to a "higher standard" an OBJECTIVE truth that one person cannot own another. Where do such truths come from in a Darwinistic, natural selection, cosmic mistake world? The don't. There is no room for morailty in a Godless world. Conclusion: God.
You're essentially claiming that God is responsible for the words "right," "wrong," "good," and other such moral terms? Humans are the ones who define such terms, not God. There have certainly been ethical depressions throughout human history, such as slavery, as you mentioned, but to be ethical does not require the belief in or the existence of God. I am an atheist, and I treat others well and I live a good life. I'm offended by your insinuation that I'm a bad person.
@TheChipmonk007 Are you claiming a selfless act of decency towards others, especially the unfortunate, something Jesus would have admitted was good, is not good if a godless person does it?
I think where he offends is where he points out that it can be harmful to believe in something that is patently untrue. We're not talking about the tooth fairy but instead religions that have ideology that is actually wrong and against our instinctive moral code and our humanity. Religions all too often are used to justify hatred against one thing or another..not simply to believe in what is untrue. He embraces truth rather then any dogma. That is where atheism differs from any dogma.
[Each ideology is its own theory to make sense of life, so who's to say who is wrong?]
The ideology that places objective truths as paramount is superior to anything else for the reason that objective truths are the only means by which we can define what is ultimately true and what isn't.
Any ideology that requires faith or relies on subjective truths is inferior for the reason that under these rules anything can be claimed as true.
[Atheism is still an ideology just like religions]
Give me any valid reason why we should not idealise that which is objectively true.
[When Dawkins says what he says, he unintentionally or not offends other people's belief systems (ideologies),which in my opinion is bad morality.]
Religion loves playing this card. Religion thinks it is sacred and musn't be criticised. If people are offended by rational arguments then they are giant babies and need to grow up.
What I find fascinating is how christians take purely secular moral standards and attach them to christ or yahweh. If you ask them how they feel about slavery or ethnic cleansing (genocide), without a doubt they will stand up against it. Then with the flick of the page in their "good book" point to specific passages where not only are those atrocities condoned, but ordered by their deity. FASCINATING!
There are 2 kinds of atheists. 1 of them is NOT having any religion and the other one is having a religion which you hate any kind of thing that is related to GOD and bash theists. The true atheists NEVER talk about religion unless they are asked. The fake atheists ALWAYS talk about how religion is lame. The second one is infact an ideology
@AgionOros888 dude. stop being so obviously jealous of all the ass Prof. Dawkins gets and go out and get yourself a nice Jebus-loving honey. you're totally jealous that Dawkins can just walk into the club and chicks throw their panties at him. so sad.
@AgionOros888 provide some evidence for your claim, or shut the fuck up and let the grown-ups do the job of running the world that idiots like you take for granted.
In a world where believers use the 'religion is the source of morality' argument so often, the education of evolutionary psychology principles is becoming increasingly important. Thanks for posting this, and thank God (facetiously, of course) for the work of Richard Dawkins!
I don't understand why morality not being objective is supposed to be a problem.. If there are bad consequences for behaving destructively towards other people and animals, why should it matter to us whether an objective morality exists ?
I love how everyone has their own opinion and how those opinions make them believe in whatever it is they believe in, and what I'm getting at is everyones sense of right and wrong is different hell everyones sense of everything is different. Why can't people grow some balls understand that and work towards becoming better from it. I swear for as smart as humans think they are we are dumb as hell.
There is no point. There is no point. There is no point. There is no point. There is no point to any of this. You WANT there to be a point, but there isn't, and that's what's so sad. Genes are as pointless as rocks when you're dead. They ARE there, but the universe cares not---and the universe created you. And maybe you don't care that there is no point, but you can't deny that there isn't while you hold dear the idea that the universe is infinite in time. Morality MUST mean nothing, Dawkins.
@smooch0408 After the big band, right? There was an explosion and matter is being catapulted into infinite space? Maybe that's incorrect---it doesn't really even matter. All I'm saying is that there is no basis for HAVING an ethical system as an atheist. Sure, anyone can have a code of ethics that demands a type of morality, but there is no REASON to having one when in millions of years our sun will die and so will any type of life left on earth. There is no hope to base good will upon. Bleak.
@thall2100 why should it matter, though? Even if atheism doesn't have a real ethical system or foundation and one of the most well-known atheists says that it does, isn't this alternative view, perhaps a baseless one, better than having every atheist run around killing and raping? It's clearly not true that all atheists think it's acceptable to do so. Would you prefer that they think otherwise?
@thall2100 "Sure, anyone can have a code of ethics that demands a type of morality, but there is no REASON to having one when in millions of years our sun will die and so will any type of life left on earth."
That would depend on what morality actually is wouldn't it? If morality is a set of rules governing interactions between agents who want to cooperate, then there would be every reason to adopt it. For both immediate and long term benefits.
@thall2100 Not only that, but from the simple premise that there are advantages to be had by cooperation.(That is, that you value cooperation) You can actually infer all kinds of consequences from this, such as your need to also value the opinions of others to some degree to be able to compromise, the golden rule etc. There are a whole host of logically necessary basic principles that must be followed if cooperation is to be beneficial for all parties(=sustainable).
@thall2100 Morality means something to the living. It's a pattern of behavior cultures work out because we are social creatures. Every animal society works out its' acceptable vs unacceptable behavior for the good of the group and for the good of those in hierarchies. Competition plus communal living drives morality. Morality is just a code of behavior, nothing more. It is far from meaningless or pointless, it has meaning to the living.
@thetoddmanout get your facts straight before posting any comment atheism: the lack of belief in any diety .ok? it is way different then the belief that gods do not exist .
At its core Atheism is a belief system, like all other belief systems it takes faith to believe in. I just dont have enough faith to be an Atheist, logic, reasoning and scientific evidence all point to Intelligent Design in my opinion.
How has he proven where morality comes from when he doesn't know with absolute certainty whether there is a God or not? How do you know God didn't build compassion into animals so that they would take care of their young? The Bible describes birds as crying out to God. So God has a relationship with animals, the Bible says he knows when a sparrow hits the ground. Dawkins cannot justify his form of morality over that of others, because he lack the absolute authority to do so.
Science has confirmed the Bible. The Bible said that the life is in the blood, science now knows that the life consists of DNA, among other things and DNA is in the blood. There are many statements about the world we live in that is not found in any other religions holy book.
If you're fine with "I don' know" then that is your choice. Have fun with evolution.
@thetoddmanout No, ignorance is actually the act ignoring something or someone at will.
By miserable i did not intend to say that your life is not going well, rather that you are worth nothing in the universe, but if you took it that way well, then i might suspect you do have problems in your life too.
Regarding atheism, i thought you intended it was impossible for everyone to be atheist in an hypothetical word that is why i responded so.
@thetoddmanout So you're saying that you believe in a lie to make your miserable life happy? If you think that all the people in the world cannot be atheist you're out of your mind.
Nevertheless, moralities are just a creation of humanity, there is no absolute in regards to ethics and morals but there is in truth.
3. So, we are ALL atheists in one way or an other. To adopt a stance that a disbelief in their god makes one immoral or ignorant, is no more immoral or ignorant for them not believing in Thor.
@o0flowerfairy0o Regardless, one cannot call himself Christian and be convinced of his superiority in comparison to others. That is(shoud be) more immoral (from a church pov) than being an atheist. When reading Dawkins book and understanding what religion is used for in the States, I cannot but totally agree with him.
@o0flowerfairy0o I can only hope, atheists won't fall in the same trap as the religious people do, feeling themselves superior to others because of their belief in the scientific method. You must understand that you got to these knowledges by mere luck of having the right conditions & decent genes - and your influence on the chain of events that (happenned or didn't) brought you here, was very low and similar to others' influence capability.
2. If I asked a christian if they believe in Thor, the Norse god and they were to say no, then that would make them an atheist towards that god. They don't believe in any other god unless it's their own. I am an atheist towards Thor also, but I go one god further, as I don't believe in their god either; I don't believe in any god(s).
@o0flowerfairy0o Lol, you roughly quoted from Dawkins here, especially with "I go one god further". The definition of a god from an atheist POV might be complex and refer to pantheism. You do believe in gravity,electromagnetism,etc & probability , right ? That's pantheistic atheism. Science is the new god:)).
1. How is atheism an ideology? Atheism is a lack of belief in any gods at all, whether that be the christian god, the muslim god, the hindu god... etc.
Atheism and religion are the same. It is an ideology that people identify with, probably because they can't think for themselves or because they are too lazy to search for truth. Wise person does not put a label on her/his relationship with reality.
If a person follows moral rules that come from an outside source, that's false morality. If the person follow rules that come from within himself, and does or doesn't do things because he believes it is right, that is true morality.
@Mamonar : It would be wrong to assume that atheism and religion are the same. Atheism believes whatever can be proved by scientific evidences and nothing else. Suppose that there are some people that believe that there is a teapot 6 light years away. It controls the entire universe. You wouldn't believe it , not because there is some proof against it but because there is no proof supporting it. Similarly, there is no proof against the presence of God, but there is no proof of the presence.
On the contrary, my friend. Modern science, namely quantum physics proves that this reality is not solid, but a designed hologram quite similar to Matrix. Watch these youtube videos here: /watch?v=_H0mPzBtbjE AND /watch?v=vnvM_YAwX4I
and the document: "Intelligent Design - Unlocking The Mysteries Of Life" - you can find it on google videos.
The truth about this reality must be able to explain everything. And this stuff is getting close to the core.
@Mamonar Atheism is actually the lack of religion! Theism contains religions i.e. Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism, Judaism, and Islam. Theism and Atheism are complete opposites. So if atheism contains religion then what are they? Atheistic morality is based on true morality as you describe and theistic morality is based on false morality as you describe because they get their morals from an imaginary being.
@Mamonar Factually, you are incorrect. atheism isn't really an ideology in that sense. To put a label on something does give it that sense. Would you call science an ideology?
@o0flowerfairy0o if the universe is infinite and intrinsically intelligent, is it possible this is merely what religious people intend to convey by god, though perhaps taking the idea a bit too far? I guess what I mean to ask you is do you think perhaps theism and atheism are simply two sides of the same coin, explaining the immensity of existence with vastly different terminology? This is how it sometimes looks to me. Perhaps people can find more agreement than they realize...
what i find the tawdriest of the whole christian idea of "WE our god's children who are the only recipients of morals ..." is that it arrogantly deemes all other creatures inferior and whose purpose is solely to serve US. when one can see that it is us who cannot live in harmony with our environment and are too successful a species for our own good.
Lmao, I can't believe some of you actually claim that morals are instinctual. The world is 9 meals away from total chaos and anarchy. Which means it only takes 3 days without food for a persons respect for the law to completely break down. After three days without food there is no right and wrong, only what a man can do and what a man can't do.
dawkins is the sort of atheist who continues to cling to a drain-related morality. a morality that concerns the enslavement of the creative spirit that longs for a gay and joyful existence. even if he rejects christian morality he conserves the unexamined notion thatteh focus of morality is the utility of the individual to others. the result is a complete drain on the human spirit.
@FcK2420 - Your brain is wired to sympathize with all humans because in our evolutionary history, the only humans you would see were the ones in your pack who could help you out later.
@FcK2420 - That's how I'd phrase it, yeah. In a similar fashion, the human desire to protect babies is so strong that we feel a desire to protect almost any animal with big eyes and a relatively large head-to-body ratio.
@FcK2420 - And Darwin (as I recall) also mentioned this in The Origin of Species, saying that this trait is rather inefficient for a society: forcing it to care for its hopelessly sick, etc, but that we cannot cease to do so without reworking our core nature. Thus, we must continue with it.
I agree that morals do not come from religion. Yet they do come from an original design by God the creator. The problem with evolution is related to the question, What came first the chicken or the egg. While things may have evolved over time, the origin is a creator. Evolutionist spend alot of time fighting religion and forget to answer the question. If the question is about the evolution of morality, why even bring up religion. Just answer the question. Dawkins always says "we dont know yet".
watched video: so in richard dawkins view racial genocide isn't a bad thing?
aKimmik 3 days ago
(cont'd) 3. There is an absoluteness about morality that cuts across all divisions of race and time. Do unto others what you would have them do unto you. This is shared by ALL the major religions of the world. RD is talking thru hs hat when he says we don't 'need' religion. Take away all the religions that have ever existed and you will have complete and utter chaos (as can already be seen among those who have deviated - including religious fanatics)
1sola1verita 1 month ago
@1sola1verita What makes you think that taking away all relgions would lead to chaos ? Where did you get this golden nugget of "truth" from?
MrDevilstreaker 2 weeks ago
@MrDevilstreaker :Evil happens and chaos reigns where God is not present in the hearts of people. Not every person who says "Lord" is necessarily religious. Anyone can 'profess' to belong to one religion or another. To live in awe and love of God, to love and serve all people, to forgive those who offend you: if all people lived like this, there would be no room for hate, war, exploitation.
It is self-evident...
1sola1verita 2 weeks ago
@1sola1verita Oh dear - How can you believe all that - its completely hearsay from a 2000 year old text. Besides I dont really care what you believe as long as you're happy - show us some proof and we will believe in your god.
MrDevilstreaker 2 weeks ago
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@MrDevilstreaker As I said, it is self-evident. You do not want to believe in God. So why do u ask for proof? God is not an 'object' to be measured by scientific research or cold mathematical calculations... nor is He a magician who 'performs' on command.
St-Antoine-de-Exupery said, "It is only with the heart that one can see clearly: that which is essential, is invisible to the eye."
1sola1verita 2 weeks ago
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1sola1verita 2 weeks ago
@1sola1verita
"Evil happens and chaos reigns where God is not present in the hearts of people"
- bad shit happens everywhere irrespective of belief in god; and if prison statistics are anything to go by then belief in god likely increases it.
"Not every person who says 'Lord' is necessarily religious"
- sure, but unless you can read the persons mind you have no basis for contesting their faith and are simply trying to distance yourself from them via a no-true-scotsman fallacy.
types10000 4 days ago
@types10000 I spoke the truth. I don't want to contest anyone's faith.
You are free to disbelieve.
1sola1verita 4 days ago
@1sola1verita
"There is an absoluteness about morality that cuts across all divisions of race and time"
- no, there really isnt; and this is demonstrated by the fact that what is considered moral has differed depending on place and time.
"Do unto others what you would have them do unto you"
- this value can easily be reached through logic and exists independently of religion
types10000 4 days ago
1. We need to distinguish btw the morals we have & our actions. Naturally, our actions should be in line with basic morals (do good, avoid evil) but often this is not the case. Auschwitz is an extreme example of lack of morals, whatever hitler 'professed' to believe.
2. It may be hard to see, but there is also much good in this world - why do people only point to evil events? If there were no good, we would have long since destroyed the planet and ourselves.
1sola1verita 1 month ago
He said morals have evolved. I guess he didn't have family at Auschwitz.
LeavittMusicService 1 month ago
Dawkins prefaces his definition by saying," I believe;" it seems as if he has his own credo of which self elucidation is the new divine inspiration; empirical senses aided by high-powered tools are the new no-need-to-be-holy spirt, and a consortium of fellow believers makes for an academic sanhedrin ready to offer us all guidance in the postmodern world.
cleanerfloors 1 month ago
I am Muslim and morality is a natural thing given by god. Every human being is naturally born with morals. Every human being is born to have faith in god naturally until hi parents or the environment around him changes his beliefs.
plung3r 1 month ago
@plung3r What is your evidence that morality celestially ordained? Along with that: What about other faiths especially the two other faiths of Abrahamic faith
, being that they differ from Islam, is their morality relevant since they don't accept Allah, nor Mohammed?
RhinoKnuckle 1 month ago
@plung3r This is a flawed assumption as religion is always an acquired faith. Back when cavemen saw rain, lightning, or heard thunder, this was something that had to be acquired (aka post-partum) in order to make the connection that a deity may have been involved. A fetus has no knowledge of thunder, lightning, or anything of such. Only rudimentary sights and sounds.
The same can be said for faith, since it's not possible to introduce faith until after one is born. It can't be innate by nature
Michael326 1 month ago
@plung3r What if I don't believe in Allah? Do you cut my head off?
ConvoyyHD 3 weeks ago
@ConvoyyHD No, and why would i do that..?
plung3r 3 weeks ago
I do have a point: what are the sources of good morality? And how can one identify which source is wrong or right. One's Morality and consciousness is developed by one's own experience, exposure and environment.
Eg. Some find pornography abhorrent and evil, others defend it by calling it "freedom" and "free will" and "modern art". Same goes for greed, lust, abuse.
Why should our morals evolve according to the society for us to better adapt n survive? And A lot of good this is doing these days.
drellyt 2 months ago
This video has less to do with Morality, and more to do with religion's short-comings.
andyfma123 2 months ago
Richard Dawkins is a dirty CUNT
Mrjaguarpaw1 2 months ago
Richard Dawkins INSTINCT and MORALITY is not the same.200 million years of animal instinct will not 'magically produce' human 'morality !
Eg. When dogs attack, they do so according to instinct; thus they all behave similarily within a particular species.
Humans have CONSCIENCE rather than instinct: his inner voice guides him independently of what others may tell him. He also knows when he is doing wrong.
1sola1verita 3 months ago
Interesting....so where does CONSCIENCE come from? Do we have a conscience simply because we have a brain?
Sci-fi writer Isaac Asimov said that the main problem of producing 'intelligent robots' was the question of morals... if a robot has a "brain", how come it cannot distinguish btw right & wrong?
1sola1verita 3 months ago
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Dawkins is mightily confused here (and it is noticeable that he consults no moral philosophers here). He is giving a causal account of our moral judgements. But it UNDERMINES those judgements. Yes, it explains why we make moral judgements, but it also debunks them.
If my moral judgements are caused solely by psychology, and not by an objective morality itself, then our moral beliefs are all false.
He's an idiot. A complete idiot and the fallacy is painfully obvious.
Clear404 3 months ago
Evil is what human beings do when they decide their morals should be enforced on others even though they cannot rationally defend them.
cStuartHardwick 3 months ago
@cStuartHardwick
I doubt that serial killers, rapists and the likes of Stalin, Pol Pot, HItler, Ghadaffi and other tyrants had any morals at all.
1sola1verita 3 months ago
@1sola1verita Serial killers are psychopathic. They are diseased, and while we often call them "evil" this makes about as much sense as calling a lion evil for killing a calf. Stalin and Hitler most certainly had morals and believes what they were doing was right according to those morals. Hitler, in particular, acted in large part to defend traditional CHRISTIAN morals, which is why millions of Catholics and Protestants went along with him.
cStuartHardwick 3 months ago
@cStuartHardwick A serial killer doesn't have a 'disease' . Malaria and typhoid are diseases. A person who kills repeatedly is... satanic. Stalin, Hitler and such-like had no morals,but they definitely had IDEOLOGIES. There's a difference... Please do NOT associate Christianity with Hitler just because you hate Christians --- and don't swallow everything that RDawkins says...
1sola1verita 3 months ago
@1sola1verita I do not hate Christians, but Hitler WAS a Christian, a Catholic, and while many in the Church did speak and act against him, others cooperated with his "final solution" and he explicitly invoked the bible and Christianity in Mien Kampf and a dozen public speeches. You might not agree with his interpretation of Christianity, but do not pretend he was other than he was to avoid the association. And yes, psychopaths are diseased. Viruses and bacteria are not the only pathologies.
cStuartHardwick 2 months ago
@cStuartHardwick Not everyone who says "Lord, Lord" shall enter the kingdom of God.... and many who are not Christians, who will enter the Kingdom of God.
Not everyone who mentions the name of Jesus, not everyone who quotes the Bible is a Christian. Know what I mean?
Hitler was a fanatic. A fanatic is a madman.... no matter what 'religion' he professes to have.
Do not judge Christianity by the false Christians.
BTW -- It's "Mein Kampf"
1sola1verita 2 months ago
@cStuartHardwick Psychopaths are evil; psychology would prefer NOT to have to deal with the concept of good and evil because it enters the realm of spirituality... which is anathema to psychology.
What kind of morals do you suppose hitler & stalin had? The fundamental moral of humanity is: DO GOOD, AVOID EVIL.
Our morals are revealed in our actions, which speak much louder than words.
In which way did Hitler show his morals?
pls explain
1sola1verita 2 months ago
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@1sola1verita Hitler believed that Jews were evil and that a police state was justified in the interest of restoring "traditional morals".
"I believe today that my conduct is in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator."- Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 2
In this regard, he was not unlike the modern Taliban or the religiously motivated historical revisionists on the Texas Board of Education. They differ only in circumstance and degree.
cStuartHardwick 2 months ago
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@1sola1verita
"What kind of morals do you suppose hitler & stalin had? The fundamental moral of humanity is: DO GOOD, AVOID EVIL."
- the problem with your statement is that 'good' and 'evil' are just things that refer t things we do and dont like. if Hitler thought that killing Jews was 'good' then he'd be acting in a manner completely consistent with his morality.
types10000 2 months ago
Very good response. I have yet to find a moral evolutionist who had family at Auschwitz. If man has evolved morally, there certainly is no evidence of it.
LeavittMusicService 1 month ago
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Dead-to-the-spirit deluded "God Delusion" author & blithering fool scientist goon Richard Dawkins another "leader" given 2 the profane masses is another useful idiot 4 Jesuit machinations
Jesuitical; pertaining to the Jesuits or their principals; designing; cunning; deceitful; prevaricating
The Jesuit Order completely altered the education system 2 suit their Evo-Hoax Agenda to discredit the Bible
Papal Rome cant have their Counter Reformation 2nd Dark Age DESPOTISM until Bible is destroyed
SpencerBenedict2nd 3 months ago
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Without God how can there be free will within the laws of physics?
If there is no free will how can there be morals?
CommuninisimVsPope 3 months ago
this ties into my blog... Morality without god jocylean d o t hubpages d o t com/hub/Morality-without-god
Religion is the source that allows "good" people to do bad things. Im sure things will be alright.
Idiotofthedayaward 3 months ago
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"Dead-to-the-spirit deluded "God Delusion" author & blithering fool scientist goon Richard Dawkins another "leader" given to the profane masses is another useful idiot for Jesuit machinations"-C.O.
Jesuitical: pertaining to the Jesuits or their principals; designing; cunning; deceitful; prevaricating
The Jesuits completely altered the education system to suit their evolution agenda to discredit the Bible. They cant have a Satanic society of 'Do as Thou Wilt' if people still follow the Bible.
SpencerBenedict2nd 4 months ago
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What makes things "wrong" is the negative effect an act has on ones life. Not the act itself. Rape is wrong because it's a violation of ones own personal body when not invited and consensual. Murder is wrong on the same bases. Child molestation is wrong because the child is not maturely cognitively adept to even comprehend what is going on. It's the negative effect it has on someone beyond there own control or permission. Much like when your God "created" me without me asking to be created.
mjfraser04 4 months ago
its a great to see a video of dawkins with intelligent people. first time ive seen him where he doesnt have a headache
PitchBlack696 4 months ago
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If religion is important for morality, then why doesn't your pet dog kill and eat you?
Enlightenment777 5 months ago
I love Dawkins, he speaks about everything in a beautifully positive way :D
Gretgor666 5 months ago
1@2:17 'mutual empathy' yeah maybe towards those we care about (like family)
Pablo escobar had love/empathy for his family unfortunately (??) it didn't extend to everyone,because it MAKES NO SENSE in our CAPITALISTIC WESTERN SOCIETY to do so.See things are much more complicated/complex than this big hippy,love,utopian rave like dream world that some believe is possible if only........ this /that (religion) was non existant.....why because its MAN/NATURE not religion,politics,race,culture...MAN
smallpeckerman 5 months ago
@smallpeckerman
100% agree!! So many proclaim that without religion everyone would be better off, okay then, religion gone now what? Poverty, crime, lust, greed, racism, discriminiation, classism etc. All these evils will continue to exist!!
MadaOOS 2 months ago
1:55 -2:15 we only ASSUME this about others.We can't KNOW what others REALLY think.Many have desires and wants but do never mention them or practice because of one thing FEAR (of consequences) take/shed this aspect away and......................
heres where religion just may have some merit.
smallpeckerman 5 months ago
I believe mans true nature is capitalistic.We ALWAYS want a bit more than the next (one uppance) I don't care for religion much and put it up their with the easter bunny,but i do see the POINT of it.I remember as a young boy doing certain things i internalised as wrong,then as i grew into adulthood,the people who believed these things wrong ,surpirse,surprise now say its all good.Now i question what else is ok then.... i now find myself with a VERY weakened sense of so-called right and wrong.
smallpeckerman 5 months ago
@smallpeckerman
the core source is imagination..we can always imagine something better than what we have. then we covet those fantasies..we are left seeking that which we covet..and there's always someone to sell us something we covet. capitalism then follows.
itzahazylife 4 months ago
but we get our morals from the bible!!! theres no raping, murdering, or prejudice in the bible!
PimpMyParadigm 5 months ago
@PimpMyParadigm lmfao stoneing gays to death,telling woman they are stupid,and what about all that raping your ministers are doing to little boys religion is sick and twisted i recomend reading the bible from cover to cover and you will see how stupid its is
sparky100able 5 months ago
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BIackRider 5 months ago 8
@BIackRider lol is sad that when say something like that ppl take me seriously bc there are actually religitards out there who will defend the bible without knowing whats in it....thanks for the clip
PimpMyParadigm 5 months ago 8
@BIackRider
Yes, comrade...your interpretation of the bible is in no way based on an obvious prejudicial passion, I tip my cap also since you read things in historical context. I appreciate your objective assessment: this is further evidence to affirm atheists are really elitists in their 'rational thinking' and those of the faith are simply benign parasites who wish to delude society with nonsensical garbage.
I love atheists, they are without a doubt the most entertaining people. :)
LightRevealsDark 4 months ago
Btw that was sarcasm.
LightRevealsDark 4 months ago
@BIackRider
EDIT: Forgot to reference 'sarcasm' in my aforementioned comment, soz.
LightRevealsDark 4 months ago
@BIackRider The Abrahamic god is the most unpleasant and nastiest character in all literature.
petion2010 4 months ago
I get my morality from empathy and sympathy.
lynnguist 5 months ago
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TheServiceWeb 5 months ago
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TheServiceWeb 6 months ago
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I am yet to hear an atheist apologize for offending a christian. Don't expect christians to worry about offending you either. Whether you know it or not...you atheists serve satan and christians detest him AND his followers. We also GREATLY out number you, so get over yourselves!!! Whether you believe in God or not he is coming back and you will be judged for everything you say, think, and do. He won't be coming back to preach!
roddy35wv 6 months ago
@hotemil I’m far happier now that I’ve let go of the deluded poison that caused me to tell others they deserve eternal torment at the hands of a tyrant who requires your obedience. The suicide rate is highest among believers, not atheists. We understand this may be the only life we have and it needs to be lived and enjoyed to the fullest. We spend our time trying to make this world better. You try and drag it back down into the dark ages of ignorance.
Drunkenprophet23 6 months ago
Many atheists though, will feel superior just cause their indoctrination failed or never was, or just cause they have a high IQ - failing to realise this was all probability, ramdomness and not their merit. They might fall in the primitive trap of placing their own Ego on top of all, a trap that all religions tried to help the human avoid, including the Great Juju of the Sea! LOL.
While religions had a spiritual motive to avoid that, you have no logical reason to do otherwise.
greymval 6 months ago
The only thing that truly provides protection is the redemption of Jesus Christ. If I will simply hand myself over to Him, I will never have to experience the terrible possibilities that lie within my heart. Purity is something far too deep for me to arrive at naturally. But when the Holy Spirit comes into me, He brings into the center of my personal life the very Spirit that was exhibited in the life of Jesus Christ, namely, the Holy Spirit, which is absolute unblemished purity. - O.S. Chambers
ndrummer99 6 months ago
@ndrummer99 If your morality depends on a deity to tell you what to do then you aren't actually being moral at all. You're just submitting to authority whether it's actions are moral or not. You don't do any work, or seek redemption for your wrong doings, you just expect God to magically clean you up. Doesn't sound very moral to me.
Drunkenprophet23 6 months ago
@Drunkenprophet23 Then what does morality depend on? How is morality defined?
ndrummer99 6 months ago
@ndrummer99 Morality is principles concerning the distinction between right and wrong or good and bad behavior. There is no intrinsic absolute standard of right and wrong, which is probably we're you're going to go with this. Morality operates on two scales; individual morality and morality in group/societies. Individual morality is all relative, though most people agree on a certain set of core values. Societies operate the same just on a larger scale. The simple answer is WE define morality.
Drunkenprophet23 6 months ago
@Drunkenprophet23 So if everyone decided rape is cool, then rape is cool. I see. I'm really glad it doesn't work that way! So where did the idea of right and wrong come from? Who invented it?
ndrummer99 6 months ago
@ndrummer99 Actually, yes. If everyone decided rape is cool then who would argue? EVERYONE thinks it's cool. However, beings with intelligent, empathetical, minds understand that violating another being will cause them trauma and harm, that's why almost all consider rape to be wrong. The root of all morality is empathy and social benefit. If one understands that something hurts/benefits them, than one understands the same will hurt/benefit others. That's the core and beginnings of morality.
Drunkenprophet23 6 months ago
@Drunkenprophet23 So rape exists because of a lack of intelligence? You are very wrong. Morality and intelligence aren't the same thing. Serial killers are some of the most intelligent people out their.
ndrummer99 6 months ago
@ndrummer99 Intelligence and empathy. Studies show that most who commit the act say they experience remorse later. There are many reasons why people do things even though they think it's wrong or end up regretting it later but that's a different topic. But there are some who don't feel any remorse toward the victim. These people lack empathy not IQ. It doesn't change the fact that the reason most people feel rape is wrong is because they are intelligent enough beings to have empathy for others.
Drunkenprophet23 6 months ago
God decides what is right and wrong. No one else can. There are 6 billion people, can we expect people to decide the morality? 6 billion decisions? The one who created us knows best what is best for us, so he has laid down what is right and wrong. It is this simple.
hotemil 6 months ago
@hotemil Yes, actually. No matter what you attribute to your God it IS societies that decide what is moral and immoral, except under dictatorships. When it's left in the hands of one is when things go bad, when laws are made by the people societies do much better. Besides if you're going to give control to "God" how are you going to get 6 billion people to decide on which God. Just leave God out. He doesn't help.
Drunkenprophet23 6 months ago
@Drunkenprophet23 why don't soldiers make decisions themselves in the battlefield? but take orders from the one commander? interesting. and so many other examples.. get sober and realize the fact. Maybe then you will change you nickname
hotemil 6 months ago
@hotemil They are trained to do so. I have nothing against soldiers but essentially they are brainwashed; convinced that they must obey every word of their commander without question. It operates quite a lot like a religion actually. It's not morality, it's obedience to authority. So what exactly is your point? You didn't actually make one you just told me to "get sober and realize the fact". What fact are you talking about? You didn't actually mention one.
Drunkenprophet23 6 months ago
@Drunkenprophet23 Dude point was there. If soldiers in the battlefield do not obey commands from a commander, they will do what they want to do, some of them will run, some of them will do anything they want.. easily becoming chaotic action. That's why commander in chief is there to guide them together to one mission. In Netherlands,people may think prostitution is normal, in america people may think wearing tight jeans or shorts is normal, in arab they think none of this is normal. Who decides?
hotemil 6 months ago
@hotemil Who decides? People do. That's why morality is different all over the world. We mostly agree on a set of core values, but there are differences throughout different cultures. If we really were programmed with a conscience, from one God, that instills in us the same moral compass, then we could expect to find morality the same all over the world and in each individual. But we don't. There is no absolute standard of right and wrong. People ultimately decide.
Drunkenprophet23 6 months ago
@Drunkenprophet23 You just dont care about the existence of a creator, so you are preconditioned to give counter arguments. Therefore, there is no point in this discussion. When you happen to make a suicide in the future, like many people do in Japan thinking there is no point to live, go and do a good research and read some scriptures. It is hell or heaven, and you choose it by being obedient to creator. He created us to worship him, not have fun.
hotemil 6 months ago
@hotemil Of course I care about the existence of a creator. That's why I have conversations like this. Unfortunately, more often then not, the person ends up threatening me with hell instead of giving me good arguments or reasons for their beliefs. Which leads me to believe they have no good arguments or reasons for their beliefs. You're the first to tell me I'll commit suicide though. Btw was a Christian almost my whole life and have read the bible extensively.
Drunkenprophet23 6 months ago
@Drunkenprophet23 This is not a good place for discussions like this. So what happened why did you became atheist? Why didn't you move on exploring other religions? Search for Yusha Evans, he was christian too, but he finally found what he was looking for.
hotemil 6 months ago
@hotemil I will look up Yusha Evans. I became an atheist by trying to convert atheists to Christianity. Listening to their arguments forced me to reconsider my beliefs and it wasn't a fast process. In fact I clung to Christianity for dear life for a long time, but eventually I had to admit I didn't know if God existed and I had no good reason to believe anymore. I am searching other religions but atheism is the default position. If this isnt a good place for this conversation feel free to PM me.
Drunkenprophet23 6 months ago
@Drunkenprophet23 Awesome conversation. I too struggle with it, and contemplate a lot. I would like to offer a couple points: what happened before the big bang? Also what if we as humans have not reached our fullest potential and therefore cannot fathom what God is? I dislike people on either side that use crude words for those that do not share their ideas or faith. But for me, it seems miraculous, almost impossible that all of existence happened by chance.
UltraEpicLoser 6 months ago
@UltraEpicLoser As for your two questions the answer to both is unknown. There may not have been anything prior to the big bang, or there may have been something. We may have reached our fullest potential as humans, or we may have a long way to go. What we shouldn't do is use our current iggnorance as an excuse to fill in the gaps with answers like "God did it." Let's be honest about things we don't know and just say; we don't know yet, maybe we never will, but we'll never stop looking.
Drunkenprophet23 6 months ago
@hotemil As for your statement about soldiers and following orders, yes, I suppose you have a point there. But you are still not talking about morality; you’re talking about obedience to authority. When one submits to an authority, unquestionably, they are no longer making any moral decisions for themselves and thus have no place talking about morality. They are not being moral, they are being obedient.
Drunkenprophet23 6 months ago
cough
JS1989RENEWED 6 months ago
I believe in God. i believe he gave us our morality. i also "belive that there is kindess, charity and generosity in human nature." i also believe that these traits were caused by evolution. I'am a christian, i believe in evolution.
setiwoh 7 months ago
@setiwoh if you can explain something without the need for god, you should exclude god from the discussion altogether. Otherwise you sound like a retard.
joshuarayborn 7 months ago
@joshuarayborn yes. but i still believe in God, whether or not i sound like an idiot. see, i don't believe in God to explain things. i believe in God and this belief happens to explain things.
setiwoh 7 months ago
@setiwoh As Einstein said, "Faith is the worst enemy of the truth"
joshuarayborn 6 months ago
@joshuarayborn Einstein also said, "Religion without science is blind." but also that "Science without religion is lame.' An example of Science being lame without religion(keep in mind that I do believe in the big bang theory) might be the bigbang theory. Scientist believe that at one time there was no life. and then there was. but i thought the theory spontaneous generation was agreed by all to be stupid and nonesense?
setiwoh 6 months ago
@setiwoh Abiogenesis explains in great detail how life can come from non-life. Read up on it. Also Einstein was NOT religious at all, but he often used words like god, or religion as synonyms for "the unknown" or "high interest in" or nature itself. He is very clearly documented stating that religious, deistic, beliefs of some divine man in the sky making things happen and watching you have sex as completely bogus. (The hate mail he received due to these comments are amazingly comical to read)
Sanosukeafo 6 months ago
@setiwoh It is illogical to say something is the work of god because you happen to not have the answer.
joshuarayborn 6 months ago
I don't think there's anything wrong with being taught values from the Bible or the Torah or the Koran though. Morality is different than people using religion to substitute science.
thejobloshow 7 months ago
Every time that I ponder about the universe and its phenomenal existence, it makes my Muslim faith stronger.Therefore evolution is actually a strengthening factor in searching for reality and it goes in parallel with true faith.
fredfelosofar 7 months ago
@fredfelosofar whatever helps you get to sleep at night :)
stoltobot 7 months ago
I'm not an atheist, but I totally agree with this.
bcbowar50 7 months ago
You make some very good points I have definitely heard bible thumpers saying that without god the world would be full of rapists and child molesters yet they don't seem to notice all of the catholic priests that make up a great majority of rapists and child molesters :P
macsrock105 7 months ago
Amazing how someone so intelligent can be so clueless. Dawkins uses words like "good" and "right and wrong." Who defines those terms? The government? The majority? The government and the majority thought slavery was right - it took a few people to point to a "higher standard" an OBJECTIVE truth that one person cannot own another. Where do such truths come from in a Darwinistic, natural selection, cosmic mistake world? The don't. There is no room for morailty in a Godless world. Conclusion: God.
TheChipmonk007 8 months ago
@TheChipmonk007 Should be quite obvious who defines those terms - WE DO - society as a whole!
Look at how our morals have changed over time - even within christianity.
The Bible was used to both proliferate slavery and speak out agaist it.
Christianity at large does no longer kill heretics or torture people because it's the "moral right thing to do".
Morals have changed - luckily!
And natural selection only describes how LIFE changes in the real wolrd! That's IT!
auritone 7 months ago
Comment removed
JosiahPlummer1988 7 months ago
@TheChipmonk007
You're essentially claiming that God is responsible for the words "right," "wrong," "good," and other such moral terms? Humans are the ones who define such terms, not God. There have certainly been ethical depressions throughout human history, such as slavery, as you mentioned, but to be ethical does not require the belief in or the existence of God. I am an atheist, and I treat others well and I live a good life. I'm offended by your insinuation that I'm a bad person.
JosiahPlummer1988 7 months ago
@TheChipmonk007 You obviously haven't been listening to atheists arguments for who decides whats is good or evil and why.
blobvision 7 months ago
@TheChipmonk007 Are you claiming a selfless act of decency towards others, especially the unfortunate, something Jesus would have admitted was good, is not good if a godless person does it?
blobvision 7 months ago
@TheChipmonk007 Forgive me, but how could any theist be so clueless?
blobvision 7 months ago
@TheChipmonk007 Looks at Dawkins video on absolute morality.
blobvision 7 months ago
how is scratching your back in turn for scratching my back altruistic? That's trading value for value, lol.
Sivels 8 months ago
I think where he offends is where he points out that it can be harmful to believe in something that is patently untrue. We're not talking about the tooth fairy but instead religions that have ideology that is actually wrong and against our instinctive moral code and our humanity. Religions all too often are used to justify hatred against one thing or another..not simply to believe in what is untrue. He embraces truth rather then any dogma. That is where atheism differs from any dogma.
PaleHearse 8 months ago
@thetoddmanout
Or to put it more succinctly: that which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
sonicBlue00 8 months ago
@thetoddmanout
[Each ideology is its own theory to make sense of life, so who's to say who is wrong?]
The ideology that places objective truths as paramount is superior to anything else for the reason that objective truths are the only means by which we can define what is ultimately true and what isn't.
Any ideology that requires faith or relies on subjective truths is inferior for the reason that under these rules anything can be claimed as true.
sonicBlue00 8 months ago
@thetoddmanout
[Atheism is still an ideology just like religions]
Give me any valid reason why we should not idealise that which is objectively true.
[When Dawkins says what he says, he unintentionally or not offends other people's belief systems (ideologies),which in my opinion is bad morality.]
Religion loves playing this card. Religion thinks it is sacred and musn't be criticised. If people are offended by rational arguments then they are giant babies and need to grow up.
sonicBlue00 8 months ago
@thetoddmanout
I never knew pointing out the fallacious reasoning and demanding the opposing ideas meet the burden of proof is bad morality.. interesting..
acherrybalm 8 months ago
What I find fascinating is how christians take purely secular moral standards and attach them to christ or yahweh. If you ask them how they feel about slavery or ethnic cleansing (genocide), without a doubt they will stand up against it. Then with the flick of the page in their "good book" point to specific passages where not only are those atrocities condoned, but ordered by their deity. FASCINATING!
thoughtmobster1 8 months ago
There are 2 kinds of atheists. 1 of them is NOT having any religion and the other one is having a religion which you hate any kind of thing that is related to GOD and bash theists. The true atheists NEVER talk about religion unless they are asked. The fake atheists ALWAYS talk about how religion is lame. The second one is infact an ideology
pililibach 8 months ago
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Futurecop2012C 8 months ago
we're all some what racist or another, it's just that if two people have guns, who dares wants to show that they are racist.
crickerplague 9 months ago
24 people believe in god.
i3enI 9 months ago
@i3enI idiot! billions of people believe in god. in fact, some people believe in many gods. haven't you even heard of hinduism?
abortionasiaCOCKROCK 9 months ago
Animals have no Reason, Free Will or Conscience.
I Think Mr. Dawkins is very stupid.
AgionOros888 9 months ago
@AgionOros888 dude. stop being so obviously jealous of all the ass Prof. Dawkins gets and go out and get yourself a nice Jebus-loving honey. you're totally jealous that Dawkins can just walk into the club and chicks throw their panties at him. so sad.
abortionasiaCOCKROCK 9 months ago
@AgionOros888 provide some evidence for your claim, or shut the fuck up and let the grown-ups do the job of running the world that idiots like you take for granted.
breaneainn 9 months ago
In a world where believers use the 'religion is the source of morality' argument so often, the education of evolutionary psychology principles is becoming increasingly important. Thanks for posting this, and thank God (facetiously, of course) for the work of Richard Dawkins!
euphorazine 9 months ago
Why are british peoples teeth so fucked up?
Aaron72591 9 months ago
@Aaron72591 Because they are smarter than us :(
KeshnerfFilms 9 months ago
I don't understand why morality not being objective is supposed to be a problem.. If there are bad consequences for behaving destructively towards other people and animals, why should it matter to us whether an objective morality exists ?
SHIBBYiPANDA 9 months ago
I love how everyone has their own opinion and how those opinions make them believe in whatever it is they believe in, and what I'm getting at is everyones sense of right and wrong is different hell everyones sense of everything is different. Why can't people grow some balls understand that and work towards becoming better from it. I swear for as smart as humans think they are we are dumb as hell.
duces02 9 months ago
@thetoddmanout You fundamentally misunderstand what it is to be atheist. Atheism is a lack of believe. It is not an ideology.
sixstringartist 9 months ago
There is no point. There is no point. There is no point. There is no point. There is no point to any of this. You WANT there to be a point, but there isn't, and that's what's so sad. Genes are as pointless as rocks when you're dead. They ARE there, but the universe cares not---and the universe created you. And maybe you don't care that there is no point, but you can't deny that there isn't while you hold dear the idea that the universe is infinite in time. Morality MUST mean nothing, Dawkins.
thall2100 9 months ago
@thall2100 ummmm "the universe is infinite in time", huh?
smooch0408 9 months ago
@smooch0408 After the big band, right? There was an explosion and matter is being catapulted into infinite space? Maybe that's incorrect---it doesn't really even matter. All I'm saying is that there is no basis for HAVING an ethical system as an atheist. Sure, anyone can have a code of ethics that demands a type of morality, but there is no REASON to having one when in millions of years our sun will die and so will any type of life left on earth. There is no hope to base good will upon. Bleak.
thall2100 9 months ago
@thall2100 Sorry, typo. That's "big BANG." Thought I should correct that before you divert your attention solely to that aspect of my comment.
thall2100 9 months ago
@thall2100 why should it matter, though? Even if atheism doesn't have a real ethical system or foundation and one of the most well-known atheists says that it does, isn't this alternative view, perhaps a baseless one, better than having every atheist run around killing and raping? It's clearly not true that all atheists think it's acceptable to do so. Would you prefer that they think otherwise?
smooch0408 9 months ago
@thall2100 "Sure, anyone can have a code of ethics that demands a type of morality, but there is no REASON to having one when in millions of years our sun will die and so will any type of life left on earth."
That would depend on what morality actually is wouldn't it? If morality is a set of rules governing interactions between agents who want to cooperate, then there would be every reason to adopt it. For both immediate and long term benefits.
Gnomefro 9 months ago
@thall2100 Not only that, but from the simple premise that there are advantages to be had by cooperation.(That is, that you value cooperation) You can actually infer all kinds of consequences from this, such as your need to also value the opinions of others to some degree to be able to compromise, the golden rule etc. There are a whole host of logically necessary basic principles that must be followed if cooperation is to be beneficial for all parties(=sustainable).
Gnomefro 9 months ago
@thall2100 Morality means something to the living. It's a pattern of behavior cultures work out because we are social creatures. Every animal society works out its' acceptable vs unacceptable behavior for the good of the group and for the good of those in hierarchies. Competition plus communal living drives morality. Morality is just a code of behavior, nothing more. It is far from meaningless or pointless, it has meaning to the living.
2degucitas 9 months ago
@thetoddmanout well why not achieve piece for themselves while being an atheist huh?
nakata023 10 months ago
@thetoddmanout get your facts straight before posting any comment atheism: the lack of belief in any diety .ok? it is way different then the belief that gods do not exist .
nakata023 10 months ago
At its core Atheism is a belief system, like all other belief systems it takes faith to believe in. I just dont have enough faith to be an Atheist, logic, reasoning and scientific evidence all point to Intelligent Design in my opinion.
DAdancemusiclifeIN 10 months ago
Comment removed
DAdancemusiclifeIN 10 months ago
How has he proven where morality comes from when he doesn't know with absolute certainty whether there is a God or not? How do you know God didn't build compassion into animals so that they would take care of their young? The Bible describes birds as crying out to God. So God has a relationship with animals, the Bible says he knows when a sparrow hits the ground. Dawkins cannot justify his form of morality over that of others, because he lack the absolute authority to do so.
timcp1 10 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Science has confirmed the Bible. The Bible said that the life is in the blood, science now knows that the life consists of DNA, among other things and DNA is in the blood. There are many statements about the world we live in that is not found in any other religions holy book.
If you're fine with "I don' know" then that is your choice. Have fun with evolution.
timcp1 10 months ago
@thetoddmanout No, ignorance is actually the act ignoring something or someone at will.
By miserable i did not intend to say that your life is not going well, rather that you are worth nothing in the universe, but if you took it that way well, then i might suspect you do have problems in your life too.
Regarding atheism, i thought you intended it was impossible for everyone to be atheist in an hypothetical word that is why i responded so.
Blasthood 10 months ago
@thetoddmanout So you're saying that you believe in a lie to make your miserable life happy? If you think that all the people in the world cannot be atheist you're out of your mind.
Nevertheless, moralities are just a creation of humanity, there is no absolute in regards to ethics and morals but there is in truth.
Blasthood 10 months ago
@thetoddmanout
3. So, we are ALL atheists in one way or an other. To adopt a stance that a disbelief in their god makes one immoral or ignorant, is no more immoral or ignorant for them not believing in Thor.
o0flowerfairy0o 10 months ago 11
@o0flowerfairy0o Regardless, one cannot call himself Christian and be convinced of his superiority in comparison to others. That is(shoud be) more immoral (from a church pov) than being an atheist. When reading Dawkins book and understanding what religion is used for in the States, I cannot but totally agree with him.
greymval 6 months ago
@o0flowerfairy0o I can only hope, atheists won't fall in the same trap as the religious people do, feeling themselves superior to others because of their belief in the scientific method. You must understand that you got to these knowledges by mere luck of having the right conditions & decent genes - and your influence on the chain of events that (happenned or didn't) brought you here, was very low and similar to others' influence capability.
greymval 6 months ago
@thetoddmanout
2. If I asked a christian if they believe in Thor, the Norse god and they were to say no, then that would make them an atheist towards that god. They don't believe in any other god unless it's their own. I am an atheist towards Thor also, but I go one god further, as I don't believe in their god either; I don't believe in any god(s).
o0flowerfairy0o 10 months ago 10
@o0flowerfairy0o Lol, you roughly quoted from Dawkins here, especially with "I go one god further". The definition of a god from an atheist POV might be complex and refer to pantheism. You do believe in gravity,electromagnetism,etc & probability , right ? That's pantheistic atheism. Science is the new god:)).
greymval 6 months ago
@thetoddmanout
1. How is atheism an ideology? Atheism is a lack of belief in any gods at all, whether that be the christian god, the muslim god, the hindu god... etc.
o0flowerfairy0o 10 months ago 17
@o0flowerfairy0o But they do believe in a lack of gods and scientific origins of the universe.
hazearoundtheworld1 9 months ago
@o0flowerfairy0o
Atheism and religion are the same. It is an ideology that people identify with, probably because they can't think for themselves or because they are too lazy to search for truth. Wise person does not put a label on her/his relationship with reality.
If a person follows moral rules that come from an outside source, that's false morality. If the person follow rules that come from within himself, and does or doesn't do things because he believes it is right, that is true morality.
Mamonar 9 months ago
@Mamonar : It would be wrong to assume that atheism and religion are the same. Atheism believes whatever can be proved by scientific evidences and nothing else. Suppose that there are some people that believe that there is a teapot 6 light years away. It controls the entire universe. You wouldn't believe it , not because there is some proof against it but because there is no proof supporting it. Similarly, there is no proof against the presence of God, but there is no proof of the presence.
gauravpandeyamu 8 months ago
@gauravpandeyamu
On the contrary, my friend. Modern science, namely quantum physics proves that this reality is not solid, but a designed hologram quite similar to Matrix. Watch these youtube videos here: /watch?v=_H0mPzBtbjE AND /watch?v=vnvM_YAwX4I
and the document: "Intelligent Design - Unlocking The Mysteries Of Life" - you can find it on google videos.
The truth about this reality must be able to explain everything. And this stuff is getting close to the core.
Mamonar 8 months ago
@Mamonar Atheism is actually the lack of religion! Theism contains religions i.e. Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism, Judaism, and Islam. Theism and Atheism are complete opposites. So if atheism contains religion then what are they? Atheistic morality is based on true morality as you describe and theistic morality is based on false morality as you describe because they get their morals from an imaginary being.
FallofDarkness55 8 months ago
@Mamonar Factually, you are incorrect. atheism isn't really an ideology in that sense. To put a label on something does give it that sense. Would you call science an ideology?
thoughtmobster1 8 months ago
@o0flowerfairy0o if the universe is infinite and intrinsically intelligent, is it possible this is merely what religious people intend to convey by god, though perhaps taking the idea a bit too far? I guess what I mean to ask you is do you think perhaps theism and atheism are simply two sides of the same coin, explaining the immensity of existence with vastly different terminology? This is how it sometimes looks to me. Perhaps people can find more agreement than they realize...
seanstrnad 7 months ago
@o0flowerfairy0o I know it's been 3 months but if the question still stands:
Atheists believe in probability, random events and universal laws. A manner of thinking IS an ideology.
greymval 6 months ago
what i find the tawdriest of the whole christian idea of "WE our god's children who are the only recipients of morals ..." is that it arrogantly deemes all other creatures inferior and whose purpose is solely to serve US. when one can see that it is us who cannot live in harmony with our environment and are too successful a species for our own good.
sn3192 10 months ago
Lmao, I can't believe some of you actually claim that morals are instinctual. The world is 9 meals away from total chaos and anarchy. Which means it only takes 3 days without food for a persons respect for the law to completely break down. After three days without food there is no right and wrong, only what a man can do and what a man can't do.
You13ow2Me13itch 10 months ago
I doubt chimps run into burning buildings to save strangers.
You13ow2Me13itch 10 months ago
2.55 Dawkins just chillin, I like :D
Kassie0ate0a0cow 10 months ago
dawkins is the sort of atheist who continues to cling to a drain-related morality. a morality that concerns the enslavement of the creative spirit that longs for a gay and joyful existence. even if he rejects christian morality he conserves the unexamined notion thatteh focus of morality is the utility of the individual to others. the result is a complete drain on the human spirit.
fede2 10 months ago
The percentage of down thumbs seems to be about the same percentage of Fundie fuck-tards in the general population who would watch this.
bigboy45454545 10 months ago
Why do i like to give to people i dont know??? I want do me any good?
We arnt in a "pack" and i will have no future benefits from this.
Doesnt make any sense.
FcK2420 10 months ago
@FcK2420 You make NO sense!!
Nonsensical!
o0flowerfairy0o 10 months ago
@FcK2420 im sorry. *it won't do me any good.
FcK2420 10 months ago
@FcK2420 - Your brain is wired to sympathize with all humans because in our evolutionary history, the only humans you would see were the ones in your pack who could help you out later.
Venaloid 10 months ago
@Venaloid i know. But does that mean its a misfire when i enjoy to help people i dont know and wont see.
FcK2420 10 months ago
@FcK2420 - That's how I'd phrase it, yeah. In a similar fashion, the human desire to protect babies is so strong that we feel a desire to protect almost any animal with big eyes and a relatively large head-to-body ratio.
Venaloid 10 months ago
@FcK2420 - And Darwin (as I recall) also mentioned this in The Origin of Species, saying that this trait is rather inefficient for a society: forcing it to care for its hopelessly sick, etc, but that we cannot cease to do so without reworking our core nature. Thus, we must continue with it.
Venaloid 10 months ago
I agree that morals do not come from religion. Yet they do come from an original design by God the creator. The problem with evolution is related to the question, What came first the chicken or the egg. While things may have evolved over time, the origin is a creator. Evolutionist spend alot of time fighting religion and forget to answer the question. If the question is about the evolution of morality, why even bring up religion. Just answer the question. Dawkins always says "we dont know yet".
whatchandstudy7 11 months ago