dude there is SOOOOO much evidence that Jesus was MUCH more then a cult leader.
more 500 people saw him alive AFTER he died. you cant just go and say that he was nothing more then a cult leader! there were also TONS of prophecy's that were made BEFORE he lived and he fulfilled them all. He is Christ!
Well you mentioned you read the Gospels, if that is true then you would know that Matthew 25:4 says this; "For many will come in my name, saying, I am Christ, and will mislead many."
It also goes on to say that they will perform many miracles and decieve many. Which was including yourself. Another thing is that Jesus never told anyone to kill themselves.
Also, you conveniently leave out the fact that Jones abused his followers and sexually harrassed many of them. (Both men and women.) You only use the "facts" as they suit your argument. Unfortunately, I don't know where you got that information from, but it seems you're more ready to believe a man who killed over 900 people in Guyana is more capable of miracles than a man who died for you and I 2000 years ago. What gives?
As a Christian and a cult apologist, I was really interested to hear what you were going to say. You really lost me though, because you couldn't even get the facts right about a well documented event that happened nearly 30 years ago, so the rest of your argument hardly resonated. I have read almost every book on Jim Jones. I have never read where he is said to have walked on water. Also, the "miracles" were members of the church who faked healings.
Jesus did very much so preach death. Just go read Lucas 19:27.
Also Jim Jones was severly persecuted for his good faith, and eventually executed by his own people,.. (not by his own followers, but his trusty CIA turned against him)
Actually i disagree with labeling the Peoples Temple as a cult,.. sure there are characterstics defining this group in such a way, but its religious aspects are merely means of control, as it was a front for covert research on humans.
The torture and psychological abuse wich many members have reported are techniques researched and developed by the CIA. Like earlier MK-Ultra projects, people were programmed to comply and endure horrific medical examinations without resistance.
well. whatever you say. We just even don't know exactly what Jeus really did. So if you have the faith, believe what it is said in the Bible. If you're an historian, collect evidences and start building a theory about his life. Both path are interresting. But we know that 900 peoples commited suicide and a lot without their consentment (we can call this murder). Whatever what he said, being a god or anything else, this guy was purely evil disguised in a charity man. We're better without him.
People were rounded up by armed men,.. what is easyer? To drink poison, or get shot? Next to that, babies dont commit suicide. People dont inject themselves in the back of the neck. People that reject violence dont carry guns,.. as many were plainly shot.
People jumpin of the WTC building werent suicides either,.. they were driven by a greater threat, a seemingly more horrific end, they decided to avoid,..
If you have to choose between two kinds of death, is that what you could call consent?
jim jones laced kool-aid with fucking poison and made his folowers(913) of them to dirnk it or else hed shoot/hnag them hes not a fucking new jesus u crackgead. wtf are u talking aboout........... this is absurd, ppl that dont beleive in him deserve death... wow thats cunny no like im laughing.. is this legit or are u like making fun of him i cant tell... fucking noob
It's a valid allusion in certain ways. As you say you must assume Jesus was a real histrical person, which hasn't been proved in any real way. Another aspect is that Christianity, whatever it's origins or beliefs, is responsible for much more violence and death than Jim Jones is.
(PART 3) The difference is that he had two choices, and this is where the connection between Jim Jones and Jesus is severed. Jones took the bad way, and Jesus took the good way. Jesus used his authority to better lives, and Jim used it to convince people to kill themselves. Christ died for the people who believed in him, so while i can completely see where you are coming from, you have to understand what each of these people did with the power that they had. (sorry for making this so long!)
(PART 2) If Jim Jones had not gone so overboard with this group that he had, i truly believe he could have made the world a better place.. i know im going to get a lot of rants from that comment, but think about it.. he did not look at anybody's race during the time where integration was first coming about and he had the foundation of a utopia.
(PART 1) okay, so i am christian so i obviously believe in Jesus Christ. I first want you to know that this was very well said and that I honestly fully respect your opinion and i feel you made a very good argument. I however do not agree with it for my personal reasons, and reasons that i feel are more than just what i believe in.
unfortunately the majority of your argument is speculative....what if this and what if that. The fact is, those 'what ifs' were reality with Jesus and NOT with Jim Jones. Jesus' legacy lived on and changed the world. Jim Jones' legacy is nearly forgotten. Maybe thats enough difference to mute this argument.
I would also like to state that the only reason jim jones might not have really come out like jesus is the fact of the minds of today if Jesus... say didnt happen back as long as it did & was to just happen today he would be locked up and called crazy. If jesus is real & came back again like said,,, we would poeple would put him in a little white room and not let him out again your vid maked very good points & i could see how that could of happened
The problem with cults is not the cult leaders, per se. It arises when the cults become cults of personality, which they are prone to do from time to time.
If we assume that both Jesus & Saul/Paul were real historical figures then you are right that Paul had a much bigger hand in establishing Christianity than Jesus had. That said, very good arguments can be made that neither of them were even real historical people.
layloso, look at the quality of your comment compared to the rest - then you will maybe realize that you aren't exactly doing your side of the issue any favours by posting a comment like this.
Here's what you should do: Watch the video again, formulate some arguments and post them here. Bonus points for proper spelling, grammar and punctuation.
Great vid. Of course your hypothetical future Jonesians would have an advantage over Christians in that Jim's life, unlike that of Jesus of Nazareth, is actually confirmed by secular documents.
And of course while they would eagerly, and happily use those documents to support the reality of Jim Jones they would reject the facts contained within them that didn't support the official story.
Yup, it's the same old story - All you need is faith ... except when there is anything that might be construed as evidence for your viewpoint - you must grab that with both arms. Any evidence that seems to contradict your viewpoint should be discarded without question.
dude there is SOOOOO much evidence that Jesus was MUCH more then a cult leader.
more 500 people saw him alive AFTER he died. you cant just go and say that he was nothing more then a cult leader! there were also TONS of prophecy's that were made BEFORE he lived and he fulfilled them all. He is Christ!
zorath1998 3 weeks ago
Hello Mr. "seiner".
Well you mentioned you read the Gospels, if that is true then you would know that Matthew 25:4 says this; "For many will come in my name, saying, I am Christ, and will mislead many."
It also goes on to say that they will perform many miracles and decieve many. Which was including yourself. Another thing is that Jesus never told anyone to kill themselves.
stylishshoe 2 years ago
FICTION MORE THAN FACT (PART 2)
Also, you conveniently leave out the fact that Jones abused his followers and sexually harrassed many of them. (Both men and women.) You only use the "facts" as they suit your argument. Unfortunately, I don't know where you got that information from, but it seems you're more ready to believe a man who killed over 900 people in Guyana is more capable of miracles than a man who died for you and I 2000 years ago. What gives?
Chrstjoy 3 years ago
VIDEO IS MORE FICTION THAN FACT. (Part 1)
As a Christian and a cult apologist, I was really interested to hear what you were going to say. You really lost me though, because you couldn't even get the facts right about a well documented event that happened nearly 30 years ago, so the rest of your argument hardly resonated. I have read almost every book on Jim Jones. I have never read where he is said to have walked on water. Also, the "miracles" were members of the church who faked healings.
Chrstjoy 3 years ago
Jesus did very much so preach death. Just go read Lucas 19:27.
Also Jim Jones was severly persecuted for his good faith, and eventually executed by his own people,.. (not by his own followers, but his trusty CIA turned against him)
FreeMindSociety 3 years ago
Dude.... Are you serious? That was a parable...
stylishshoe 2 years ago
Actually i disagree with labeling the Peoples Temple as a cult,.. sure there are characterstics defining this group in such a way, but its religious aspects are merely means of control, as it was a front for covert research on humans.
The torture and psychological abuse wich many members have reported are techniques researched and developed by the CIA. Like earlier MK-Ultra projects, people were programmed to comply and endure horrific medical examinations without resistance.
FreeMindSociety 3 years ago
well. whatever you say. We just even don't know exactly what Jeus really did. So if you have the faith, believe what it is said in the Bible. If you're an historian, collect evidences and start building a theory about his life. Both path are interresting. But we know that 900 peoples commited suicide and a lot without their consentment (we can call this murder). Whatever what he said, being a god or anything else, this guy was purely evil disguised in a charity man. We're better without him.
mlektra 3 years ago
People were rounded up by armed men,.. what is easyer? To drink poison, or get shot? Next to that, babies dont commit suicide. People dont inject themselves in the back of the neck. People that reject violence dont carry guns,.. as many were plainly shot.
People jumpin of the WTC building werent suicides either,.. they were driven by a greater threat, a seemingly more horrific end, they decided to avoid,..
If you have to choose between two kinds of death, is that what you could call consent?
FreeMindSociety 3 years ago
dude your stupid, I hope you burn in hell with Jim Jones giving it to you in the booty hole
zyme1 4 years ago
Joke telling was prohibited in Jonestown
if the "Punch" lines were too long.
A1RFburns 4 years ago
jim jones laced kool-aid with fucking poison and made his folowers(913) of them to dirnk it or else hed shoot/hnag them hes not a fucking new jesus u crackgead. wtf are u talking aboout........... this is absurd, ppl that dont beleive in him deserve death... wow thats cunny no like im laughing.. is this legit or are u like making fun of him i cant tell... fucking noob
lawlpownedlawl 4 years ago
It's a valid allusion in certain ways. As you say you must assume Jesus was a real histrical person, which hasn't been proved in any real way. Another aspect is that Christianity, whatever it's origins or beliefs, is responsible for much more violence and death than Jim Jones is.
zenarcade64 4 years ago
(PART 3) The difference is that he had two choices, and this is where the connection between Jim Jones and Jesus is severed. Jones took the bad way, and Jesus took the good way. Jesus used his authority to better lives, and Jim used it to convince people to kill themselves. Christ died for the people who believed in him, so while i can completely see where you are coming from, you have to understand what each of these people did with the power that they had. (sorry for making this so long!)
yoitsars10 4 years ago
(PART 2) If Jim Jones had not gone so overboard with this group that he had, i truly believe he could have made the world a better place.. i know im going to get a lot of rants from that comment, but think about it.. he did not look at anybody's race during the time where integration was first coming about and he had the foundation of a utopia.
yoitsars10 4 years ago
But what he has done is that he damned the way for others to come in that manner.He hurt real unity and idealism.
coleon8 4 years ago
(PART 1) okay, so i am christian so i obviously believe in Jesus Christ. I first want you to know that this was very well said and that I honestly fully respect your opinion and i feel you made a very good argument. I however do not agree with it for my personal reasons, and reasons that i feel are more than just what i believe in.
yoitsars10 4 years ago
Thank you...I thought I was the only one thinking of these same connections so clearly. Bravo.
knightyaccha 4 years ago
unfortunately the majority of your argument is speculative....what if this and what if that. The fact is, those 'what ifs' were reality with Jesus and NOT with Jim Jones. Jesus' legacy lived on and changed the world. Jim Jones' legacy is nearly forgotten. Maybe thats enough difference to mute this argument.
casebritain 4 years ago
poor man ,be carefull with the falses prophets .
jesus is unique ,king of the kings ,the lord .
morceguetty 5 years ago
I would also like to state that the only reason jim jones might not have really come out like jesus is the fact of the minds of today if Jesus... say didnt happen back as long as it did & was to just happen today he would be locked up and called crazy. If jesus is real & came back again like said,,, we would poeple would put him in a little white room and not let him out again your vid maked very good points & i could see how that could of happened
piratelover2595 5 years ago
The problem with cults is not the cult leaders, per se. It arises when the cults become cults of personality, which they are prone to do from time to time.
kevinboydellington 5 years ago
What's the difference between Jesus and Jim Jones?
A: Jesus didn't commit suicide. He was murdered. Is suicide wrong? That's the question.
kevinboydellington 5 years ago
Beautifully explained!
seanbedlam 5 years ago
Thanks! I was worried that it came out a bit too serious and gloomy.
siener 5 years ago
If we assume that both Jesus & Saul/Paul were real historical figures then you are right that Paul had a much bigger hand in establishing Christianity than Jesus had. That said, very good arguments can be made that neither of them were even real historical people.
siener 5 years ago
yeah mabe ur dumb ass should have been there at jonestown when it happen
layloso 5 years ago
layloso, look at the quality of your comment compared to the rest - then you will maybe realize that you aren't exactly doing your side of the issue any favours by posting a comment like this.
siener 5 years ago
Here's what you should do: Watch the video again, formulate some arguments and post them here. Bonus points for proper spelling, grammar and punctuation.
siener 5 years ago
Great vid. Of course your hypothetical future Jonesians would have an advantage over Christians in that Jim's life, unlike that of Jesus of Nazareth, is actually confirmed by secular documents.
jomardelange 5 years ago
And of course while they would eagerly, and happily use those documents to support the reality of Jim Jones they would reject the facts contained within them that didn't support the official story.
TheOptimisticSkeptic 5 years ago
Yup, it's the same old story - All you need is faith ... except when there is anything that might be construed as evidence for your viewpoint - you must grab that with both arms. Any evidence that seems to contradict your viewpoint should be discarded without question.
siener 5 years ago