Tae kwon do 1956

[MaharlikaAWA]

Too bad General Choi (ITF) as well as the guys who run the Kukkiwon and the WTF both ruined Taekwondo. Seriously why the hell did General Choi actually think the sine wave was important? And why does kukkiwon get rid of classic forms as well as make everyone fight like idiots with thier hands down.

[knightofsilla]

@MaharlikaAWA all the sine wave real is, is rising and sinking power. Sink into your strikes to get the most power you can into your strikes.

[TKD344]

@MaharlikaAWA What MA do you do?

[MaharlikaAWA]

@TKD344 Look at my profile. TKD, BJJ, Muay Thai, Boxing, eskrima, tai chai

[TKD344]

@MaharlikaAWA I see you are 29 yrs old, have done all these martial arts? Maybe on X Box perhaps. If you were a true martial artist fella, you wouldn't critique others. As for TKD, was it ITF that you did?

[MaharlikaAWA]

@TKD344 You are an idiot and you miss the point.

[donoman2002]

Actually the only reason people say that it came from shotokahn is because during the japanese occupation of korea, japan outlawed all korean martial arts and imprisoned or in some cases, killed those who practiced anything other than a japanese martial arts. so yes, while it is probably true that most founding fathers of taekwondo practiced a form of karate(shotokan being the most dominant at the time) taekwondo itself was the revival of the korean arts, practiced in secret all the while.

[kenseisato1989]

i wish tkd was taught like this all over the world still :(

[SuperBluepurple]

looked a lot more like karate back then

[spinkickmaster]

@SuperBluepurple thats because there wasnt "sport" TKD back then.

There are a lot of dumbasses out there that think there hot shit in the ring. but in real self defense would get destroyed if they tried to set someone up for a counter jump spin kick in a real fight.

[politicalrage]

That was a nice demo. I like the balance between the kicks & punchs in that video.

I think if there are a good number of kicks on the mat with a good number of punchs

it makes taekwondo a good art for self defence and great art to watch.

[UndeadPyro]

Holy Shit, TKD actually used to be worth a damn. Too bad it's nothing but kicks and hip throws these days, with no good striking whatsoever.

[randomnator]

@UndeadPyro ITF mate... ITF. Stop watching the Olympics.

[kenseisato1989]

dudes go do some history

it came from karate(shoto-kan if i remember correctly) and taekyun (i spelt it wrong)

[mypeanut1975sc]

@kenseisato1989 I believe that Tae Kwon Do came from a mix of Japanese martial art and Korean martial arts like Hwa-rang,Soo Bak-Gi, and Taekyon. I am not sure about the Skoto Kan.

[kenseisato1989]

@mypeanut1975sc

thanks for the information :)

[chrisgeorgegray]

@mypeanut1975sc Hwarang is a made up concept, Taekkyon yes, and yes it does come from Shotokan the Founder of Taekwon-Do himself said so.

[6arcsn1sky]

@kenseisato1989 Hate to say this, but taekkyeon has nothing to do with taekwondo's origins.

[knightofsilla]

@6arcsn1sky True!

[askdjajsdn]

you learn the ma from your master. and your master gets to name it. that's it.

[BaekDooSan1Korea]

Its Taekwondo. During 1956 after Korean War. Korea had Korean Art called Taekwondo and Korean Tang Soo Do. Tang Soo Do is similiar to Karate but Taekwondo is all different mix breed from Karate.

[billysue2]

@BaekDooSan1Korea at that time tkd and shotokan were virtually the same with more kicking emphasis in tkd and more breaking of things that dont hit back,thats big in tkd and other pussy styles.

[melonbarmonster]

@billysue2 Ok there keyboard warrior. LOL.

[vagramvanyan]

This is Karate!!!

[timk815]

N00b

[bobby1mann]

Yes, this is Chung Do Kwan.

Grand Master Duk Sung Son is performing "JA ON" a 3rd Degree Black Belt form.

The WTA still studies these forms, which originated from Shotokan Karate.

[shatterprone]

It's always funny to see people disputing like it's been done here without ever quoting their sources. There's a new book, "Tae Kwon Do - a killing art" by journalist & black belt Alex Gillis, who did sincere, professional research on TKD's history. Anyone who holds on to doubts or denials about its Karate heritage must read something like this. Wake up - or shut up, finally. It's the 2000s and sources are easily available!

No idea about Chinese side-influences - interesting question.

[melonbarmonster]

It's all secondary or tertiary sources. Just because it's published doesn't mean it's true especially when it comes to TKD history.

[shatterprone]

So Choi Hong Hi & family, Nam Tae Hi, Jhoon Rhee et al are "secondary sources"? Then what's a primary source in your view?

Secondly, of course Gillis' book isn't the be all and end all of TKD literature, but the karate heritage, which was the point of my post, hasn't been a secret for years except for really blind followers. The generation of my teacher in the 60s still learned both katas and hyongs as the latter were composed only from 1962 to '66.

[melonbarmonster]

Testimonies may be genuine or hearsay based on the merits of what they're claiming. Just because you're a Gillis fanboy doesn't magically make everything in the book true. If you know anything about TKD history you'd know that MOST published material on it in any language is rife with BS and shoddy research. Karate influenced formation of TKD similar to how Karate was formulated only a few decades earlier from a handful of Okinawan imitators of Chinese MA and an overeager Japanese journalists.

[melonbarmonster]

Karate's influence doesn't make it the only or even the strongest influence. Indigenous Korean MA emphasis and varied techniques on kicks are the single biggest influence in TKD's creation. Anyone with half a brain who's practiced MA knows this. These kicks never existed in Chinese or Japanese MA. before the 20th century or in MA movies or media for that matter until the 70's. Chinese influence is also significant since Chinese MA provided basis of all formal systems in Asia.

[melonbarmonster]

Early masters running schools that became part of the conglomeration when TKD was created ran Chinese MA schools in Korea. The fact that Norther Style Chinese MA's emphasis on kicks and Korean MA's emphasis on kicks isn't coincidence and proves mutual influence and convergent evolution that probably goes back hundreds if not thousands of years.

[shatterprone]

...the view will be that there's not much difference between post-WWII Shotokan and TKD. If one is more sparring/ technique oriented, the varied kicks and the Korean and Chinese heritages matter a lot more.

I don't have any information on the latter, so it would be kind of you to provide some sources for me and other readers, like I did with the stuff I've read so far.

But please refrain from using terms like "anyone with half a brain" or calling me "fanboy" despite what I said about the book.

[shatterprone]

Hehe. Why do you think my mentioning the Karate heritage would disclaim Chinese influences? You're overreacting. I was just providing something many people deny and others never heard about. I don't think you're wrong at all, but a little close minded unfortunately because in reality, every categorization depends on personal perspective. For example, is Man ape-like or not? You know what I mean? Hence, if one is a form oriented practitioner, for whatever reasons, then...

[billysue2]

@melonbarmonster every kick in tkd also exists in some kung fu styles.SInce the vast majority of tkd is hand techs(useless ones) id say shotokan wa a huge influence given that choi had a dan grade in it and was only a chap when he studied taekyon,he never did any other styles and was no way qualified to develope anything.Other karate like styles of the kwans also were incorporated into tkd.

[melonbarmonster]

@billysue2 I guess you think every kick in karate and muy thai also exists in kungfu too right? Asimple roundhouse in TKD Karate Muy Thai and Kungfu are radically different from each other and anyone with any MA exp can tell them apart literally in a second. TKD kicks never existed in kungfu or karate for that matter until Korean MA's like Hwang started popularizing them in HK kungfu flicks in the 60's and 70's. Even Bruce Lee's kicks look radically different from his pre and post TKD days.

[billysue2]

@melonbarmonster all the kicks are variations on chinese styles that came before them,I said variations ,not the same.

[melonbarmonster]

@billysue2 They are not variations but novel creations that have no equal in kungfu. The mechanics and devestating power created by thai roundhouse has no relation nor equal to Chines kungfu. Karate's concept of linear kicks was revolutionary and had no similarity to Chines kungfy kicks. Dynamic speed and flexibility and variation of TKD kicks preexists most kungfu styles and changed MA kicks across the board in the 60's and 70's including Chines kungfu. You believe in chi fire balls too?

[melonbarmonster]

@shatterprone No your citing Gillis is secondary source. Choi became the head of the TKD and won over the karate only taught masters which is why he was able to use the TKD name. Your obvious lack of knowledge on this is quite telling. TKD was an amalgamation of various MA's including Karate, Chinese MA and indigenous Korean MA's. Stop being a karate ball sucker.

[melonbarmonster]

@shatterprone Gillis is a moron. There are Korean research papers in history journals that are about 10 times more definitive and better researched than the "killing art" BS. What kind of McDojo crap is that?? LOL.

[shatterprone]

@melonbarmonster: hey, it's strange enough that you reply to my posts here as if they weren't almost a year old - you still don't refer to the sources you talk about and that's a mistake if you want to teach something to all of us obviously ignorant ppl. I already said I acknowledge other influences (aside from the Shotokan katas whose modules make up ca. 2/3 of Hyongs #1 to 13) even tho I don't know details and would like to learn more, so put your money where your mouth is, finally. Please.

[melonbarmonster]

@shatterprone Hey retard welcome to the youtube where comments are accrued sequentially even for years on end. Isn't the internet wonderful? LOL. And no amount of your retarded mentioning of borrowed hyungs from karate katas (which are copies of Chinese and Korean MA texts only formalized about 30-40 years earlier than TKD's formalization in the 50's. And your whapanese McDojo book is a SECONDARY SOURCE ftard. Go to wikipedia, I've referenced primary sources in the TKD article on this.

[melonbarmonster]

@melonbarmonster ...no amount of mentioning hyungs and such changes the fact that your book is a secondary source at best... most likely madeup BS.  What kind of McDojo author titles their book "killing art". Don't make me laugh.

[shatterprone]

@melonbarmonster - If you wouldn't constantly use swear words I'd take you (and poor Wikipedia) more seriously. But you apparently just need to relief yourself. Goodbye.

[melonbarmonster]

@shatterprone LOL. Sorry if I hurt your G rated sensibilities. Welcome to the internet.

[gfsjdhgfjsdhgfjhdsgf]

ITF was founded in 1966, WTF was founded in 80,s but Taekwondo was founded in 1955, so ITS TAEKWONDO, old taekwondo but taekwondo. I see do san tul (old style).

[cassavaeater]

@0:55

worst tameshiwari ever!

[killerfall42]

i just got my black belt 2 months ago :)

[TraditionalTKD]

There are things that are very reminiscent of karate, but many that are quite different. The distance in the sparring was much greater, and no sweeps or low kicks. How many karate guys do you see running and doing a jumping side kick break?

[MadMonk108]

You don't know much about JKA Shotokan, do you?

[Kinghercules]

good video.  you can see how they use to use their hands alot back then.

[baekho10]

thats becuz its itf

[MadMonk108]

Nope, it's not.

[papaiosif]

there was no WTF then....

[MadMonk108]

There was no ITF back then either. This is 1956, the ITF wouldn't be founded until 1966. This is Cheungdogwan Dangsudo, not Taegwondo. If you could read the Hangul at the beginning of the video you'd know this. If you knew the history of Taegwondo's development, you'd know this.

[papaiosif]

I said that there was no WTF back then. To me that statement is true. From what I know, and everybody accepts as a fact, is that in 1955 from Teak Kyon the art was named as Tae Soo Do and two years later the name TKD was adopted after the proposal of general Choi. In any case I was trying to make a point that connects traditional TKD to this clip.

[MadMonk108]

What you know is wrong, & most scholars don't accept what you say as fact.

Taegyon didn't become Taesudo. Taegyun is a completely different art. The arts collectively known as Dangsudo & Gongsudo, shown in this clip, derive from the Japanese importation of Karate into Korea. The Cheongdogwan, who's students are portrayed in this clip, was founded by Yi Wonguk. Yi Wonguk, learned Shotokan Karate in Japan under Gichin Funakoshi, the founder of Shotokan. Yi Wonguk was senior to General Choi.\

[papaiosif]

ok i find it difficult to continue this conversation. my knowledge is that Choi in order to avoid all these that we are talking about tried to unite masters and schools under the same umbrella of TKD. it seems that our info is not the same. i know that Choi CHoi studied the ways of Karate and tKd IS influenced by it a LOT. most of the Hyongs and katas are almost the same.. anyway no need to argue. i wish for peace and health.. and good -of high quality - trainning.

[sycodave11]

is there more to this video? where can i find it?

[InstitutoKwangGaeITF]

wow nice vid

[oparuparu588]

this is karate.funny!tkd from karate.

[TraditionalTKD]

After comparing the techniques here to footage I've seen of Japanese and Okinawan karate, there are similarities but many differences.

After watching, I can honestly say that Chung Do Kwan and karate are NOT the same thing.

[MadMonk108]

That's like saying Shotokan & karate aren't the same thing.

Logic.

[GTF4life]

taekwon-do is all growed up arent we proud!!

[lumianic]

ok,continue...the Japan's original empty-handed fighting system started from tang dynasty which called Tang Soo(in korea)/Tang Shou(in chinese):唐手（翻译).This Tang style empty-handed fighting system was spread out from the beginning in Korea then into the Japan.But two of these,Korea absorbed the most but Japan only absorbed 55.6% of it.But until china's dynasty reached until the Ming dynasty,japanese pirate's attack towards china's sea shores such as the Fujian province(福州)continue..

[lumianic]

continue....the Ming generals who involved in the action for retreating the Japanese pirate out of the china's sea shores were the famous China's great wall man,Chi Zhi Guang (shang tong province,peng lai's people)(山东蓬莱人) and Yu Da You [Fujian province(my homeland)](THIS IS THE BIRTHPLACE OF WING CHUN FIGHTING SYSTEM).At that time when Japanese are lack of empty-handed fighting sysytem,they only knew how to use their 'kitchen knife'(katana).General Chi Zhi Guang knew that..continue

[shot87]

You got that all wrong dude. The earliest masters of tkd(which at the time were often calle tangsoodo) were mostly practicioners of shotokan karate. Choi Hong Hi of ITF, for example was 2nd dan in Karate and later he developed TKD by combining taekkyon kicks. The grand masters of okinawa brought back kung fu directly from China and combined them with okinawa's native martial art to make karate. they did NOT come from korea. If you ever hear that karate was made from TKD, that's a complete BS.lol

[ygarakuy]

is this old style of Tae kwon do ? laugh! After all karate is roots of the taekwondo.

[KenBuDO]

Karate still look very funny like this... Taekwondo has evolved !

[ygarakuy]

ピョンピョン跳ね回って蹴るだけのアヒルの喧嘩のほうがよほどf­unnyだと思うけどｗ

[lumianic]

helo,karate is not created in Japan,the answer is okinawan island.If u go back to the history peges,u will find that the development of second-handed chinese culture at the China's overseas.First is from Korea,then into Japan,but Japan's most glorious Chinese culture absorption occurs at the Tang and Sui dynasty which remains contact with gojuryeo kingdom,paekjae kingdom and shilla kingdom the nearest...continue...

[mike3yo]

first of all, this is taekwondo - a korean martial art. Second of all, kyokushin karate ( the most well known form of karate) originated in japan. However, it was created by choi bae- dal also known as mas oyama. He moved to japan from Korea when he was a teen.

[lumianic]

Ok,how Japan's martial art evolves from a sword technique into a empty-handed technique.Japan's empty handed technique started from two places:one is in the Japan island where that time is reigned by Ashikaga Court itself while the other one is in the ryukyu island which is not yet being reigned by the Ashikaga court iteself.Ok,weat is the difference between theese two developments of empty-handed technique in theese two diferent land?.....continue...

[Zachariasek]

Taekwondo are from Korea

[Irlandets]

Taekwondo changed greatly since those days... These guys funny.

[huflpuf]

Yes, that's Grandmaster Duk Sung Son, head of the WTA.

[IcemanSK]

Yeah, it's Kwan-era Chung Do Kwan. Nice find. Thanks!

[sipak]

a verdadeira origem do taekwondo está nas posturas do Tang Soo Do, através da diagramação das formas copiadas do karate e os chutes do taekkyon

[Yujin9]

Thats not modern tkd. More like one of the kwans.

[jsstevens]

It appears to be the Chung Do Kwan. At 0:14 Duk Sung Son appears. He was briefly the Kwan Jang of the Chung Do Kwan.

[kidhadoken]

this is likely one or more of the original kwans.

[clockwork78]

in my opinion good is better than new

[Windkick]

I quote...

[jsstevens]

is that Grandmaste Duk Sung SON of the Chung Do Kwan at 12~17 seconds?

[awake24hrs]

yes it is definitely Grandmaster Son in this video

[melonbarmonster]

I think this is from the same tangsoodo demonstration... not quite yet tkd.