CCW 3.102: LAST RANTS! WTF JMS?! (& have comics reached the end of the road)

[Tigerkaya]

What do you guys think of Atomic Robo?

[comicculturewarrior]

@Tigerkaya Have not read it. Sorry. Perhaps I should give it a try? Elliott

[Tigerkaya]

@comicculturewarrior Its a great series, easy to get into and a very fun read. Let me know what you think of it.

[iheartcomicz]

you guys sure deal in a lot of absolutes huh? I like JMS's Superman, is it my fav Superman story ever written? no, not by a long shot. Just remember that different people enjoy different comics and comic stories.

[comicculturewarrior]

@iheartcomicz And everyone has different opinions about said comics and comic stories. Just because we may not like something, it doesn't make other folks wrong for liking it.

Anyway, the JMS Superman sucked, but that's just my opinion. ;) Elliott

[tig3rtits]

Fuck vertigo. Let it burn. I don't think the problem is the companies...i really think fan boys have ruined comics. No one can please them. and the fan boys are the only ones really buying the monthly comics still. so Dc and Marvel are trying to cater to a bunch of people who flip flop on wanting change and not wanting it. I wouldn't bash the Ultimate line or Earth one so much and maybe just look at it as a testing ground to see if certain story arcs would work in the lore.

[tubernery]

Are Jose and Elliot dead?? We miss your rants and stylish sweaters, come back soon.

[comicculturewarrior]

@tubernery We are alive and well, thank you. :) Until new vids are posted, check out Jose's blog over at InveterateMediaJunkies [dot] com and my blog over at redeyechicago [dot] com [slash] geektome. We will return soon with CCW*TV Season Four! Promise! Elliott

[theblakelvis]

Must.  Have. More. Videos.

[ValisX]

I thought JMS was having health problems, which was the reason he had to drop the monthlies?

DC has their hands tied with Vertigo. Vertigo is supposed to be the kind of books that are being done at Avatar and currently its trying to be an all-ages-adult-comic line......? I don't mean 'ALL-ages' but its definitely not the kind of hardcore mature material that it should be.

[torchwoody58]

The JMS Earth One Superman was a dull read. The art was muddy and the motivations were telegraphed from the 'emo' cover. I just hope it doesn't affect the regular title. Except that it keeps JMS off the book so that Superman can start flying again. If DC needs an explanation for why #700 sold so well, maybe they should stop numbering their books.

JMS leaving "The Twelve" after telling two thirds of a story should be a warning to anyone who wants to hire him in the future.

[tubernery]

I haven't read a Vertigo comic in a while, but I picked up Vertigo's Northlander Girl in the Ice comic. Can't wait for the second and final part.

[Gokiza]

I think readers don't like to be rushed out of their comfort zone. Dick becoming Batman was something touted at for years, and Morrison did a decent job illustrating that Bruce trusts his sons (Dick, Tim, and Damian) to carry on in the case of the unexpected. Writing Superman as a dickish straw-man was terrible. Ignoring Wonder Woman's entire history to tell your own story is also stupid (not the costume, just a sudden change with no regard for the rich history Simone provided) was unnecessary.

[laussica]

awww i was hoping u would do another trades look b4 xmas oh well maybe after the winter

[Vance258]

House of M was the nail in the coffin for me, all the stuff you guys are talking about is what i saw with HoM. Crap being pushed out to make a buck, nothing is fun anymore in comics. And im glad i quit after HoM. I find myself rereading all my old comics then even attempt to read anything new being put out these days.

Still cant get rid of my HoM books!!!!!

[jerriardo]

Awesome last rants boys!!!

[dukealoops1993]

Superman: Secret Origins was delayed because of Gray frank not Johns

[variantgirl17]

Image is where it's at, js. Mainstream does sux and anything independant is really where the creativity and ideas sit.

[beetle21]

how come the videos are few and far between now?

[tubernery]

Dammit Jose, I was at Dreamland this afternoon, but missed you.. I really wanted to meet the Howard Stern of comic book commentary. Oh well, maybe next year.

[dawingster]

So whose more despised? JMS, Bendis, or Millar?

[dawingster]

TV writers writing comic books? Shouldn't Joss Whedon be in this group? Do we still like Joss?

Is the comic book medium so "elite" to say no to TV writers? This is the same medium who allows comic book artists, with no previous writing experience, write comics.

[renetetrault]

I'm confused as to why you brought Babylon 5 up in this video? Did you guys watch the show? It's a very solid story, one of the best Sci-Fi stories ever told on television, but thats just my opinion. yes the CGI doesn't hold up to today's CGI but it's not terrible by any means either. I would kill to have Dark Horse or Image pick up the license, but I don't think JMS has any plans for it at this point from a recent interview I read.

[edward2962]

Great rant! I especially liked the points about companies repeating formula cuz that's where the $ is. Now, bring on the indie hipster comics! (smiley face)

[nightwing01]

I have enjoyed his SUPERMAN and WONDER WOMAN monthly and I am SO PISSED off at JMS. I feel/felt copped out. He was the reason I picked up those books. Now, my girlfriend got my SUPERMAN: EARTH ONE and to my surprise was that I liked it, but not too wild about the whole thing. I thought Davis' art was amazing.

And for Vertigo, I am a huge Vertigo and beyond pissed that the company let go of three editors when the company should have let go three editors from DCU.

[basterdkill]

to save vertigo, everybody go buy as much vertigo comics you can buy!!!

[Stepper11]

Totally agree on the re-re-re-reboots.No imagination equals no REALLY new stories.As for JMS,he's just a rat abandoning a sinking ship.Paper monthlies are nearly done as it is.The reality is e-formats will replace them sooner rather than later at some publishers.Marvel's already warned top retail insiders of this inevitable fact.It's a matter of time...a short time.The industry being what it is, it'll only be a short time until others follow suit,especially DC.He's trying to front that wave.

[DannyPhantomBeast]

Phil Jiminez, Greg Rucka, Christopher Moeller, Gail Simone, Hell even JOHN BYRNE!

Someone "up there" REALLY doesn't like Wonder Woman.

And it shows.

And SO WHAT is they kill the comic book industry?

They'll just bring it back a few months later...

[Damiankilby]

It's really hard to care about this.

[deemar325]

Wait Bendis killed Brother VooDoo?!

Yeah lets kill another black superhero, we have so many more to choose from.

[deemar325]

Wouldn't JMS be taking a pay cut if he only did the Earth One OGNs?

[deemar325]

If J wrote a Chew One-shot how many ways would he have E violated

[deemar325]

I have a steep page rate Jose. ;-) but I'll give a a discount.

[OoogieBoogie]

I don’t think I can accurately describe how much I hate JMS. The man is a hack who can’t write a good comic to save his life. His Wonder Woman is unforgivably boring, after something like that he doesn’t deserve to be a professional writer of anything. The only people who are making anything worth while are Grant Morrison, Nick Spencer, Rafael Grampa, Kate Beaton, and Paul Maybury. Not to forget Paul Pope who is currently stuck in 500 page graphic novel limbo.

[agmaster]

*cough* you guys were always hipsters. It's why I like you. Glad you came out, it's not so bad.

[GrinderCorpse]

8:10-completely agree, and I am kind of ticked off. JMS advertised himself as bringing Wonder Woman back or at least making her more popular, and instead he writes a half assed story and then leaves after only a few issues. Granted, I have no idea what it means to write a comic or deal with the fan base, but this to me is childish and irresponsible. To kick a highly capable writer off and then leave this unfinished, messy story someone else has to clean up.

[gradilla323]

Fuck JMS

[sai011]

I love floopys more then hardcovers. But I will go Hardcover then digital comics anyday. I cant stand reading comics over the internet. I dont mind reading a few, but I will stick with phyiscal comics in my hand.

[J1994M]

I don't know, I enjoed JMS' Superman monthly. It was a new take, well new to me anyway, of a old character. What did you guys not like about it?

[pooperscoop54321]

can you please review the viltrumite war from invincible that is going on right now?

[KroliggBloodhoof]

i seriously hope vertigo isnt going anywhere. american vampire is a great series and sos hellblazer...could AV go to image if vertigo gets sunk?

[comicculturewarrior]

@KroliggBloodhoof Vertigo is going bye-bye. Cuz Didio says so. :( Elliott

[KroliggBloodhoof]

@comicculturewarrior not that i dont trust you, but when did he say that? i really hope SS gets to continue AV-its such a great series and hes such a nice guy

[comicculturewarrior]

@KroliggBloodhoof never said publicly, I'll admit. It's one of those behind-the-scenes kind of things. :) The Vertigo titles would be pulled into the DCU proper. E.

[iqy92]

@comicculturewarrior why does he want to close it down?

[Gokiza]

Mainstream press = Lots of sales

Mainstream press =/= quality product, well written story, coherent plot, correct characterization, stories or events that will be remembered or count toward canon a year after release...

[venusprojection]

The Flash is good... Green Lantern is good... Brightest Day is good... Booster Gold is good...Green Arrow is Good... Legion of Super-Heroes is good... so even though some other series may be sucking for DC right now it's not ALL bad. At least that's how I see it.

[jbeihl1]

on a more serious note. I also dont think Comics are going away. but move more towards online publishing as technology progresses. Print comics will be become more of high end, or collectible item. ( This last wont happen for a long long time ) wether this is good or bad is hard to say as I like the luminosity of that a screen gives artwork as well as the ability to create animations. It would be interesting to do a vid on web comics vs print.

[comicculturewarrior]

@jbeihl1 I covered that topic a bit on the podcast I did a few months ago. check out the video where I make an "important announcement" and follow the link to the podcast page. We had some interesting conversation there. Elliott

[dvid22]

as marvel is writing for the trades would it be better if marvel and dc did like manga and publish trades every twice a month for certain character?(like the hulk, chaos war, war of the king, etc)?

[jbeihl1]

haha, I love you guys. All fire and brimstone. Amazing. I have to confess I do like the Tony Daniel Battle for the Cowl rant though. My all time favorite. Thats what sucked me in!

[comicculturewarrior]

@jbeihl1 That appears to be a lot of folks' fave, jbeihl. ;-) Thanks for commenting! Elliott

[dvid22]

will the young avengers be affected as the also have tv writer? second are tv writers in comics a trend that will not last?(in your view)

[Baec]

I am so annoyed they killed of Brother Voodoo. He was only Sorcerer Supereme for like a year. I mean they build him up to kill him off. I haven't cared for Amazing Spider-Man since OMD.

[comicculturewarrior]

@Baec The point to make about Spider-Man, though, is that the "Death of Spider-Man" is taking place in the Ultimate Universe, NOT the 616 -- or "main" -- Marvel U. Still, kinda lame. Elliott

[xXVisionaryXx]

Great Show guys, nice to have you back

[BENWONDER]

JMS leaving monthly comics to focus on original graphic novels is a solid business move on DC's part. With the uncertainty of the future comics market, OGNs are exactly what the industry needs to stay relevant to the mainstream audience. Only comic book "fans" can complain about a mediocre job on his ongoings AND also complain when he quits.

[comicculturewarrior]

@BENWONDER So true. It should be noted, though, that a couple other comics pros took issue with JMS' stance. I'd also be curious to know if any editors at either DC or Marvel would be willing to offer him another monthly. Thanks for commenting! Elliott

[CinematicComics]

don't you get it?they want to corporatize mainstream comics!the reason comics are mediocre today is because it's more a writers based.instead of great art which is what it should be.comics used to have 11 distributors in the us instead of just 1 presently.when computers entered comics it was the beginning of the end.also the high prices and the competition from the violent video games.

[kyledubrule]

@CinematicComics comics should be about the story writing and character development not art paying all the attention to the art is what happened in the 90's and those comics were crap

[tstarkisironman]

cool bros

[liamperrylloyd]

awesome vid guys. just wondering if u guys where forced to write a marvel big major event what would u do in it!!!