Well of course they have shown, I am proud of them. My system has resulted in a just and participatory democracy with REAL freedoms. Your system is fantasy, it has never existed. When we adopt the policies you insist are the road to liberty, they prove to be the real road to serfdom for most. I present real world facts, you reply with nonsensical theories. I don't attack the gold standard, I want evidence of its efficacy. So far, your responses have been rhetoric alone.
@Blueslide Rhetoric? You ignore all evidence. The Roaring 20s, depression in the 30s, Nazi Germany in the 40s, stagflation in 70s, S&L crisis, Nasdaq bubble, housing bubble, current bond bubble. The 50s and 60s were okay not because of your policies but by depleting US gold reserves which were once 90% of the world's reserves...gone in one generation yet you honestly think the system you're advocating works? Also, your system is immoral, you don't have the right to vote on someone else's things!
@chuska8383 I don't ignore any of that. You just have not stated how those were created by ignoring the gold standard (i'm guessing at this point because you can't). How is a capitalist system moral? Why should haves be superior to have nots? The only possibility of that being moral is that we all start as equals, which we do not and indeed your system would prevent (have nots are dependent upon charity). BTW, Murray Rothbard falls on his face on the equality issue and resorts to racism.
And now for the inevitable hyperbole of the "classic liberal" Tyranny, Thefy blah blah blah. I am a Democratic Socialist, two words that I am sure make your skin crawl. But like the last libertarian I chatted with here, all I have to do is point to the fabulous success of Sweden. Fabulous is not by my standard only, but by your Mises.org folks. Check out the level of economic and social liberty scores of the socialist Swedes-far superior to any of you authoritarian free marketeers.
@Blueslide And so your true colors have shown! The reason why you are attacking the gold standard is because it allows for people to protect what is rightfully theirs instead of having it incrementally nationalized through the thieving predation of fiat currency. Sweden is successful despite its socialist economy, not because of it. Again, give people a CHOICE. If they want to use your toilet paper fiat currency, let them but if they want to use real money let them. You don't let them, socialist
Fed rates are kept low to increase profits for the bank. The Fed and Wall Street are one and the same. Overnight lending for fractions of a penny and then loan it out for 20% or more on credit cards.
The reason people say deregulation caused this, is because when the deregulation occurred, progressives predicted this (long before Schiff) This legislation removed the wall between FDIC insured funds and Wall St speculators.
@Blueslide Do you realize the system you have just described is the result of regulation and NOT a deregulated free market? Do you realize that without the regulations of the Fed, overnight rate, and FDIC that Glass Steagal would not be necessary? Of course, if you disagree, I wouldn't force anything on you. You should be free to do business with whatever parameters and regulations you feel are necessary. Unfortunately, the statists do not allow us the same choice.
@chuska8383 You realize that before the Fed, FDIC and Glass Steagall, we had a severe boom bust economy. What will a gold standard solve? Government regulation succeeded nicely for 50 years until Reagan started the dismantling. Regulation created the golden goose (aka middle class). The goose is being strangled by Lowering tax rates, deregulating markets and usurpation of national sovereignty for the benefit of corporations.
@Blueslide No, I completely disagree with that Keynesian assertion. We had rapid industrial development and increase of standards of living after the civil war before interest manipulating shenanigans perverted economics. Our economy is now MORE unstable with much bigger booms and busts - who brainwashed you with such nonsense? The most glaring examples are the Great Depression, the savings and loan crisis, the Nasdaq bubble, the housing bubble, and now the bond/dollar bubble.
@chuska8383 There has been extremely large booms then busts after every war...with and without the gold standard. Your relativism about the severity of economic crises in the 1800's is unsubstantiated. Itw as just another century of panics, booms, recessions and depressions. The S&L crisis occurred AFTER deregulation, dot com bubble after SEC deregulation, don't forget energy market deregulation and Enron. Deregulation=lawlessness and loss of property by unregulated markets.
@Blueslide No, you are a statist. You trust (foolishly) in central planning and government control and are suspicious of freedom, liberty, and unfettered markets. You spit in the face of all the brilliant European Enlightenment thinkers that came before you. We disagree. People will always disagree with you - that is human nature. To FORCE what YOU think is correct on others is morally reprehensible and that is the weakness in the system you advocate, you know it, and have no counter to it.
@Blueslide Plus, look at the results of leaving the gold standard! The middle class is being wiped out, our manufacturing base is destroyed, we have the biggest debt in human history, all major American cities are rotting (Detroit used to be the most affluent city in the world!). And government regulation worked nicely for 50 years? What are you smoking? We left the gold standard precisely because the regulation was doing so poorly and effectively defaulted on our financial obligations!
@chuska8383 How do you attribute this to leaving the gold standard ? That's silliness. And why do you think Gold cannot have a bubble price when every single commodity in the history of man is subject to market swings...do you really think a gold bubble is not possible? More Americans participated in the strong growth of the American economy from 1945 to 1990 or so, then ever in history. An undeniable fact and it occurred with government assistance/regulation
@Blueslide Still...I recognize that honestly believe that digital fiat is a viable means of exchange. You're certainly not alone - our notoriously horrendous public funded education system has succeeded in this matter. Therefore, let those who want to use the "barbaric relic" as money do so, and exempt us from the "gains" as measured in your fiat currency rapidly descending to zero. Let the people choose for themselves. Of course, your system only works when you don't let people choose - tyrrany
Would you rather save your money at a sucker rate, or gamble it on free market securities? The answer on Wall Street was gamble and once they were deregulated, that's what the bankers did. The deregulation that gutted Glass Steagall was authored by Phil Graham and passed in 2000 btw.
@Blueslide The fact that the rate was a sucker rate is due to regulation of the money supply itself. The reason why the banks were able to place bets on so much depositor's money despite being high risk is due to the FDIC.
@shadowgeyser Right on, man! I've heard the argument that Glass Steagall was repealed which was arguably good regulation. However, I love to bring up the fact that it was repealed in 1999 and is only "good" regulation if you take all the other regulations as a given, as statism tends to "necessitate" more statism.
Just yesterday a liberal friend I have was talking vaguely of the Bush de-regulation that caused our woes. I just sighed, there is little talking to these people.. Actually, like a week before that, another friend said the SAME THING. It's such a simple argument, and so annoying to address when they know so little as to regurgitate the propaganda.. And this IS propaganda imo
Well of course they have shown, I am proud of them. My system has resulted in a just and participatory democracy with REAL freedoms. Your system is fantasy, it has never existed. When we adopt the policies you insist are the road to liberty, they prove to be the real road to serfdom for most. I present real world facts, you reply with nonsensical theories. I don't attack the gold standard, I want evidence of its efficacy. So far, your responses have been rhetoric alone.
Blueslide 9 months ago
@Blueslide Rhetoric? You ignore all evidence. The Roaring 20s, depression in the 30s, Nazi Germany in the 40s, stagflation in 70s, S&L crisis, Nasdaq bubble, housing bubble, current bond bubble. The 50s and 60s were okay not because of your policies but by depleting US gold reserves which were once 90% of the world's reserves...gone in one generation yet you honestly think the system you're advocating works? Also, your system is immoral, you don't have the right to vote on someone else's things!
chuska8383 9 months ago
@chuska8383 I don't ignore any of that. You just have not stated how those were created by ignoring the gold standard (i'm guessing at this point because you can't). How is a capitalist system moral? Why should haves be superior to have nots? The only possibility of that being moral is that we all start as equals, which we do not and indeed your system would prevent (have nots are dependent upon charity). BTW, Murray Rothbard falls on his face on the equality issue and resorts to racism.
Blueslide 9 months ago
@Blueslide ?!? I'll do a video to respond to this. Give me a day or two
chuska8383 9 months ago
And now for the inevitable hyperbole of the "classic liberal" Tyranny, Thefy blah blah blah. I am a Democratic Socialist, two words that I am sure make your skin crawl. But like the last libertarian I chatted with here, all I have to do is point to the fabulous success of Sweden. Fabulous is not by my standard only, but by your Mises.org folks. Check out the level of economic and social liberty scores of the socialist Swedes-far superior to any of you authoritarian free marketeers.
Blueslide 9 months ago
@Blueslide And so your true colors have shown! The reason why you are attacking the gold standard is because it allows for people to protect what is rightfully theirs instead of having it incrementally nationalized through the thieving predation of fiat currency. Sweden is successful despite its socialist economy, not because of it. Again, give people a CHOICE. If they want to use your toilet paper fiat currency, let them but if they want to use real money let them. You don't let them, socialist
chuska8383 9 months ago
Fed rates are kept low to increase profits for the bank. The Fed and Wall Street are one and the same. Overnight lending for fractions of a penny and then loan it out for 20% or more on credit cards.
The reason people say deregulation caused this, is because when the deregulation occurred, progressives predicted this (long before Schiff) This legislation removed the wall between FDIC insured funds and Wall St speculators.
Blueslide 9 months ago
@Blueslide Do you realize the system you have just described is the result of regulation and NOT a deregulated free market? Do you realize that without the regulations of the Fed, overnight rate, and FDIC that Glass Steagal would not be necessary? Of course, if you disagree, I wouldn't force anything on you. You should be free to do business with whatever parameters and regulations you feel are necessary. Unfortunately, the statists do not allow us the same choice.
chuska8383 9 months ago
@chuska8383 You realize that before the Fed, FDIC and Glass Steagall, we had a severe boom bust economy. What will a gold standard solve? Government regulation succeeded nicely for 50 years until Reagan started the dismantling. Regulation created the golden goose (aka middle class). The goose is being strangled by Lowering tax rates, deregulating markets and usurpation of national sovereignty for the benefit of corporations.
Blueslide 9 months ago
@Blueslide No, I completely disagree with that Keynesian assertion. We had rapid industrial development and increase of standards of living after the civil war before interest manipulating shenanigans perverted economics. Our economy is now MORE unstable with much bigger booms and busts - who brainwashed you with such nonsense? The most glaring examples are the Great Depression, the savings and loan crisis, the Nasdaq bubble, the housing bubble, and now the bond/dollar bubble.
chuska8383 9 months ago
@chuska8383 There has been extremely large booms then busts after every war...with and without the gold standard. Your relativism about the severity of economic crises in the 1800's is unsubstantiated. Itw as just another century of panics, booms, recessions and depressions. The S&L crisis occurred AFTER deregulation, dot com bubble after SEC deregulation, don't forget energy market deregulation and Enron. Deregulation=lawlessness and loss of property by unregulated markets.
Blueslide 9 months ago
@Blueslide No, you are a statist. You trust (foolishly) in central planning and government control and are suspicious of freedom, liberty, and unfettered markets. You spit in the face of all the brilliant European Enlightenment thinkers that came before you. We disagree. People will always disagree with you - that is human nature. To FORCE what YOU think is correct on others is morally reprehensible and that is the weakness in the system you advocate, you know it, and have no counter to it.
chuska8383 9 months ago
@Blueslide Plus, look at the results of leaving the gold standard! The middle class is being wiped out, our manufacturing base is destroyed, we have the biggest debt in human history, all major American cities are rotting (Detroit used to be the most affluent city in the world!). And government regulation worked nicely for 50 years? What are you smoking? We left the gold standard precisely because the regulation was doing so poorly and effectively defaulted on our financial obligations!
chuska8383 9 months ago
@chuska8383 How do you attribute this to leaving the gold standard ? That's silliness. And why do you think Gold cannot have a bubble price when every single commodity in the history of man is subject to market swings...do you really think a gold bubble is not possible? More Americans participated in the strong growth of the American economy from 1945 to 1990 or so, then ever in history. An undeniable fact and it occurred with government assistance/regulation
Blueslide 9 months ago
@Blueslide Still...I recognize that honestly believe that digital fiat is a viable means of exchange. You're certainly not alone - our notoriously horrendous public funded education system has succeeded in this matter. Therefore, let those who want to use the "barbaric relic" as money do so, and exempt us from the "gains" as measured in your fiat currency rapidly descending to zero. Let the people choose for themselves. Of course, your system only works when you don't let people choose - tyrrany
chuska8383 9 months ago
Would you rather save your money at a sucker rate, or gamble it on free market securities? The answer on Wall Street was gamble and once they were deregulated, that's what the bankers did. The deregulation that gutted Glass Steagall was authored by Phil Graham and passed in 2000 btw.
Blueslide 9 months ago
@Blueslide The fact that the rate was a sucker rate is due to regulation of the money supply itself. The reason why the banks were able to place bets on so much depositor's money despite being high risk is due to the FDIC.
chuska8383 9 months ago
@shadowgeyser Right on, man! I've heard the argument that Glass Steagall was repealed which was arguably good regulation. However, I love to bring up the fact that it was repealed in 1999 and is only "good" regulation if you take all the other regulations as a given, as statism tends to "necessitate" more statism.
chuska8383 1 year ago
De-regulation is what caused the crisis stupid...
Just kidding!
Just yesterday a liberal friend I have was talking vaguely of the Bush de-regulation that caused our woes. I just sighed, there is little talking to these people.. Actually, like a week before that, another friend said the SAME THING. It's such a simple argument, and so annoying to address when they know so little as to regurgitate the propaganda.. And this IS propaganda imo
Clyaton 1 year ago