How does the New Testament use the Old?

[zappo1355]

Once again, they can't allow themselves to see the easiest explanation. The gospel writers had read the Hebrew Bible! They wrote their stories of Jesus with those passages floating around in their minds. Of course they'll make use of them! How does it even begin to demonstrate something supernatural is going on?

[ukuk89]

@zappo1355

That is just silly. The gospel writers and the apostles of the early church had no conceivable incentive to create some fanciful narrative of the death and resurrection of Jesus, yet they had a lot to lose. They were ostracized from the Jewish community and many were tortured and martyred for their beliefs. Why would they be so unwaveringly dedicated to spreading the gospel and willing to face such penalties if they, themselves, weren't wholeheartedly convinced of its veracity?

[zappo1355]

@ukuk89 I'm sure the apostles believed the story. I'm not suggesting that its all made up to deceive people, but certainly some parts have been made up. We do not have reliable accounts of what happened to the first apostles... you suggesting they went bravely to the torture chambers for Jesus is based on later legends. The "predictions" from the Old Testament are no such thing... its a case of a later New Testament writers making word associations with earlier books.

[zappo1355]

@ukuk89 Only after the events of Jesus could they possibly go back to the Old Testament and cherry-pick lines they'd like to call "messianic prophecy" to fit their own story. Their was no check list for Jesus or anyone else to fulfill. None of the verses are specific predictions that required a far-future fulfillment in a "Messiah". Most of the texts don't even contain the word Messiah. Christian Apologists using this trick to try and prove the truth of the Bible is laughable.

[zappo1355]

"there's just kind of like a one-to-one straight kind of prediction thing going on, but its much more complicated and interesting than that"... boy, you said it. Wouldn't it be a demonstration of truly omniscient proportions if indeed there WAS a "prediction thing" going on? Instead, we have them take poetic passages from old testament books, and look at these later gospels and see how "miraculously" they are fulfilled.... LOL