sorry to butt in, but in my humble opinion, we are not Gods, God is God, the same yesterday, today and forever, the author and finisher of the faith. There are things believers will never understand until heaven, let God be God because he alone can. He alone is able to make this choice, not us. he alone is perfectly just and perfectly holy and still perfectly loving.
"that would mean that God chooses to save some and not save others."
Isn't that what happens? People go to hell everyday. Or are you summing it up to choice?
In any case as a Christian, as I said before, we have this problem of evil, of hell, and of an all-powerful, all-loving God.
You're saying he can save all, but chooses not to so that creation can make their own decisions. I'm saying that he doesn't save all for a bigger purpose (Genesis 50:20, Romans 9:22-23).
It seems that you are upset by John's interpretation of 1 Peter 2:8, "...they stumble, as they were destined to do." This is a tough verse, no doubt. But by your interpretation, are you saying it is POSSIBLE for some people not to go to hell, by obeying the word and not stumbling? I think an affirmative would deny much more of scripture than what you are claiming irresistible grace does. We have to deal with a God that has said people will go to hell. Period. (cont)
"God is a little child playing good guy vs. bad guy with his action figures."
Calvinists don't believe this. Of course, using an inflammatory analogy is going to be faulty, but it seems you have a problem with the God of the Bible, not Calvinism.
As any Christian does, we have to deal with the problem of evil. The Bible clearly states that evil has overtaken man. We resist God constantly so we need something irresistible to be saved.
"destined" to "stumble" doesn't make your point less valid, it makes it more holistic. Peter says that God actually does "DESTIN" people, and he goes so far as to say so regarding their stumbling. But, at the same time, Peter says that God isn't willing that anyone should perish.
What I've claimed isn't in the BIble? I beg to differ, friend, since what I claimed was Biblical quotations (Ez. 36, Eph 2 specifically).
Further, I agreed w/ you that we DO resist, meaning what you said also isn't in the BIble.
Your friends' experience doesn't dictate what the Bible says or doesn't say. We have to believe predestination because it IS in the Bible. The question isn't IF, it's WHAT we believe about it when we encounter it in the Scriptures.
The cross itself is a stumbling block (1 Cor 1), doesn't mean we throw it away. You're justifying your idea against me, so I guess that "proves how flawed they are"?
you've missed the point of IG. it's claim is not that we cannot resist, but rather that when God decides to act upon us, the RESISTANCE (acknowledging there is such) is removed. that's what salvation IS. Ezek. 36, a new heart, new affections, new desires. yes we resisted, but upon God making us alive (Eph. 2) we now have no resistance to the fulness of God's grace.
Regarding 2 Pet 3.9, it's absolutely is true but is written by the same guy who wrote 1 Pet 2.8. 'Both-and', not 'either-or'
There are born again, bible believing Christians in Hell right now. No one wants to go to hell but if we blot our name in the book of life, by unforgiveness or any other violation of commandment such as blatant stealing, taking of our own life by killing, etc, no one wants hell, but sometimes we make it there on our own.
When I say they want to go to hell, I don't mean that they don't desire eternal satisfaction. I would imagine any hedonist human would desire that. I mean there is no one in hell that wanted Jesus. Essentially, they wanted to NOT want Jesus.
I don't mean to sound argumentative, it was a good point and I wanted to clear it up for everyone else too.
God forbid I take Glory away from God! I read my bible and pray that the Holy Spirit will help me to understand. I also don't like to get into vain disagreements, I don't believe I am nearly knowledgeable enough to get into arguments about whether or not God chose me or I Him, I try to depend on the Word and the Holy Spirit to guide me not the opinions of others. Please don't reply back I will not comment on these videos again. I had no idea I was commenting to anyone but Joel.
You have a great heart, mb912mom. You handled that in a very Christlike manner. If I can reverberate what he said in a more polite tone...
You mentioned "free will" and God's choice These cannot exist at the same time. If God knows and chooses us, then our will isn't free. If we have free will, then God has no choice in us.
He is a Calvinist as well and this is the most interesting topic for us. If you don't want to discuss, you don't have to.
I am not one who really gets into these debates. I only know that God knows all things so why wouldn't He know who is going to choose Him. As far as what I said about we can only come to God through God, it says in the bible that we can do nothing good of our own, God is the only good in us. I don't doubt anything that God knows or can do. May God bless you!
We can only come to God through God. He does give us free will, but God knew before time began who would choose Him. He is God, He has all knowledge and all power and all authority! Praise God!
Quite the contrary because I know God didn't pick me for anything about myself, but only for His glory. The doctrines of election and irresistible grace are the most humbling things I have ever experienced.
If we take one scripture and try to play it against another that's how we end up as heretics. Psalms and Isaiah say that God does all that He pleases. Using 1 Tim how you are using it, that means one of 2 things. Either God is a liar, or everyone is saved (making him a liar again).
So we look at that and 1 Peter 3:9 with a different mindset. Not trying to prove something wrong or right, but learning about the nature of God.
Knowing that you are an open theist, I would encourage you to search out God's knowledge in Scripture. I believe you will find that he knows the future. This is the way we can rely on His promises.
No sir, many are called but few are chosen. Romans 9 shows us that God can use people as vessels of destruction to demonstrate mercy to the others and ultimately bring Himself more Glory.
I agree, anyone who understands who he is (homeless) and sees what God has to offer ($100) could not possibly say no. But if he doesn't know who he is (Doesn't realize he needs help) or doesn't understand the value of the gift. Let's say he doesn't take the money because he is given a cashiers check that he doesn't understand or foreign currency or he's afraid of banks, etc. he may decline. Your last words ring most true if God can save me let's get out the word because God can save anyone!
You are correct. Good analogy with the cashier's check. This is why we preach the Gospel!
Calvinists do not believe that man cannot be resistant to the Gospel, actually we believe the opposite is ALWAYS true... until God replaces our heart with a heart of Flesh.
Joel, I am just finishing up a video on Calvinism and *that* was going to be the opening song. Drats! Now I'll have to think of something else. You're the first musically clever Calvinist I've come across. lol
Comment removed
bluesette82 1 year ago
sorry to butt in, but in my humble opinion, we are not Gods, God is God, the same yesterday, today and forever, the author and finisher of the faith. There are things believers will never understand until heaven, let God be God because he alone can. He alone is able to make this choice, not us. he alone is perfectly just and perfectly holy and still perfectly loving.
garethchambers11 2 years ago
You: "We choose to obey God."
The Bible: "...no one seeks for God."
"For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot."
"The Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intention of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually."
"Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool..."
I have been found by those who did not seek me; I have shown myself to those who did not ask for me.
JoelTheCalvinist 2 years ago
Strange... that's how I arrived at these conclusions.
JoelTheCalvinist 2 years ago
We resist God before regeneration constantly.(Romans 3:9-18, Romans 8:7, Acts 7:51)
God overcomes that resistance with a single, powerful, effective work of grace that results in regeneration.
(1 Peter 1:3, John 6:44,1 Corinthians 1:22-24)
After this, as Christians, we have the ability to resist God, and not resist God.
(Romans 7:19, 1 Corinthians 11:1)
I am not saying that we don't resist God. I'm saying he must overcome us at least once for our salvation, to free us from sin (John 8:34).
JoelTheCalvinist 2 years ago
"that would mean that God chooses to save some and not save others."
Isn't that what happens? People go to hell everyday. Or are you summing it up to choice?
In any case as a Christian, as I said before, we have this problem of evil, of hell, and of an all-powerful, all-loving God.
You're saying he can save all, but chooses not to so that creation can make their own decisions. I'm saying that he doesn't save all for a bigger purpose (Genesis 50:20, Romans 9:22-23).
JoelTheCalvinist 2 years ago
If I may step in--
It seems that you are upset by John's interpretation of 1 Peter 2:8, "...they stumble, as they were destined to do." This is a tough verse, no doubt. But by your interpretation, are you saying it is POSSIBLE for some people not to go to hell, by obeying the word and not stumbling? I think an affirmative would deny much more of scripture than what you are claiming irresistible grace does. We have to deal with a God that has said people will go to hell. Period. (cont)
JoelTheCalvinist 2 years ago
(When I said "some people" I meant "all people")
"God is a little child playing good guy vs. bad guy with his action figures."
Calvinists don't believe this. Of course, using an inflammatory analogy is going to be faulty, but it seems you have a problem with the God of the Bible, not Calvinism.
As any Christian does, we have to deal with the problem of evil. The Bible clearly states that evil has overtaken man. We resist God constantly so we need something irresistible to be saved.
JoelTheCalvinist 2 years ago
"destined" to "stumble" doesn't make your point less valid, it makes it more holistic. Peter says that God actually does "DESTIN" people, and he goes so far as to say so regarding their stumbling. But, at the same time, Peter says that God isn't willing that anyone should perish.
What I've claimed isn't in the BIble? I beg to differ, friend, since what I claimed was Biblical quotations (Ez. 36, Eph 2 specifically).
johnblythe 2 years ago
Further, I agreed w/ you that we DO resist, meaning what you said also isn't in the BIble.
Your friends' experience doesn't dictate what the Bible says or doesn't say. We have to believe predestination because it IS in the Bible. The question isn't IF, it's WHAT we believe about it when we encounter it in the Scriptures.
The cross itself is a stumbling block (1 Cor 1), doesn't mean we throw it away. You're justifying your idea against me, so I guess that "proves how flawed they are"?
johnblythe 2 years ago
you've missed the point of IG. it's claim is not that we cannot resist, but rather that when God decides to act upon us, the RESISTANCE (acknowledging there is such) is removed. that's what salvation IS. Ezek. 36, a new heart, new affections, new desires. yes we resisted, but upon God making us alive (Eph. 2) we now have no resistance to the fulness of God's grace.
Regarding 2 Pet 3.9, it's absolutely is true but is written by the same guy who wrote 1 Pet 2.8. 'Both-and', not 'either-or'
johnblythe 2 years ago
I don't think I have ever seen things in black and white.
stevepalmerssolid 2 years ago
Except this video?
JoelTheCalvinist 2 years ago
You can yada yada yada, but look at the Lazarus Phenomenon with NDEs backing up scriptural fact.
Sometimes we have to beg for our life, or lives of others, just as Lot begged that Burnt and Buried (Sodom and Gomorrah) not be destroyed.
Sometimes things get in the way, for instance, Did you know if we forgive not, God cannot forgive us?
Also, we reap what we sow is truly containment for a ripple effect into the spiritual realm.
Study Lazarus Phenomenon.
FATGIRLSRHOT 2 years ago
There are born again, bible believing Christians in Hell right now. No one wants to go to hell but if we blot our name in the book of life, by unforgiveness or any other violation of commandment such as blatant stealing, taking of our own life by killing, etc, no one wants hell, but sometimes we make it there on our own.
FATGIRLSRHOT 2 years ago
"There are born again, bible believing Christians in Hell right now."
You have any Scripture to back that up? If there are born again followers of Christ in hell, who is in heaven?
I don't think you know what "born again" means. Or even what "Christian" means.
JoelTheCalvinist 2 years ago
When I say they want to go to hell, I don't mean that they don't desire eternal satisfaction. I would imagine any hedonist human would desire that. I mean there is no one in hell that wanted Jesus. Essentially, they wanted to NOT want Jesus.
I don't mean to sound argumentative, it was a good point and I wanted to clear it up for everyone else too.
Thanks
JoelTheCalvinist 3 years ago
God forbid I take Glory away from God! I read my bible and pray that the Holy Spirit will help me to understand. I also don't like to get into vain disagreements, I don't believe I am nearly knowledgeable enough to get into arguments about whether or not God chose me or I Him, I try to depend on the Word and the Holy Spirit to guide me not the opinions of others. Please don't reply back I will not comment on these videos again. I had no idea I was commenting to anyone but Joel.
mb912mom 3 years ago
You have a great heart, mb912mom. You handled that in a very Christlike manner. If I can reverberate what he said in a more polite tone...
You mentioned "free will" and God's choice These cannot exist at the same time. If God knows and chooses us, then our will isn't free. If we have free will, then God has no choice in us.
He is a Calvinist as well and this is the most interesting topic for us. If you don't want to discuss, you don't have to.
God Bless!
JoelTheCalvinist 3 years ago
I am not one who really gets into these debates. I only know that God knows all things so why wouldn't He know who is going to choose Him. As far as what I said about we can only come to God through God, it says in the bible that we can do nothing good of our own, God is the only good in us. I don't doubt anything that God knows or can do. May God bless you!
mb912mom 3 years ago
We can only come to God through God. He does give us free will, but God knew before time began who would choose Him. He is God, He has all knowledge and all power and all authority! Praise God!
mb912mom 3 years ago
Quite the contrary because I know God didn't pick me for anything about myself, but only for His glory. The doctrines of election and irresistible grace are the most humbling things I have ever experienced.
JoelTheCalvinist 3 years ago
If we take one scripture and try to play it against another that's how we end up as heretics. Psalms and Isaiah say that God does all that He pleases. Using 1 Tim how you are using it, that means one of 2 things. Either God is a liar, or everyone is saved (making him a liar again).
So we look at that and 1 Peter 3:9 with a different mindset. Not trying to prove something wrong or right, but learning about the nature of God.
JoelTheCalvinist 3 years ago
Knowing that you are an open theist, I would encourage you to search out God's knowledge in Scripture. I believe you will find that he knows the future. This is the way we can rely on His promises.
JoelTheCalvinist 3 years ago
No sir, many are called but few are chosen. Romans 9 shows us that God can use people as vessels of destruction to demonstrate mercy to the others and ultimately bring Himself more Glory.
JoelTheCalvinist 3 years ago
Youre on the right track man. Good questions that have great answers! Msg me and we go through it all in detail...
God Bless
JoelTheCalvinist 3 years ago
Lol,this reminds me of my profile information.
6gording6 3 years ago
Joel, I don't agree with you for 100%.
I'm sure if any atheist would be able to see Hell in a vision, he would repent immediatly.
Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think alot of atheists are afraid when laying on their deathbed.
Nontheless, I like your way of spreading biblical teachings about God, to be honest.
In Christ.
Complex1989 3 years ago
"atheists are afraid when laying on their deathbed." "...he would repent immediatly."
If they repent, they are no longer an atheist. :)
JoelTheCalvinist 3 years ago
Your demeanor and tone are breath of fresh air in the youtube world. If for nothing else, thank you for correcting others in love and gentleness.
ringmasterzeppelin 3 years ago
Thanks! I try pretty hard to keep my cool when people throw out insults when talking about Scripture.
JoelTheCalvinist 3 years ago
I agree, anyone who understands who he is (homeless) and sees what God has to offer ($100) could not possibly say no. But if he doesn't know who he is (Doesn't realize he needs help) or doesn't understand the value of the gift. Let's say he doesn't take the money because he is given a cashiers check that he doesn't understand or foreign currency or he's afraid of banks, etc. he may decline. Your last words ring most true if God can save me let's get out the word because God can save anyone!
powerglo 3 years ago
You are correct. Good analogy with the cashier's check. This is why we preach the Gospel!
Calvinists do not believe that man cannot be resistant to the Gospel, actually we believe the opposite is ALWAYS true... until God replaces our heart with a heart of Flesh.
You are awesome, man.
JoelTheCalvinist 3 years ago
Joel, I am just finishing up a video on Calvinism and *that* was going to be the opening song. Drats! Now I'll have to think of something else. You're the first musically clever Calvinist I've come across. lol
ProfMTH 3 years ago
Thank you, good sir.
JoelTheCalvinist 3 years ago